Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Mark Your Calendar!
Well I guess that is the American way, Mike. Sucker punch anyone who isn't doing your bidding. ;) Friday nights are Kansas legislator night on Smoky Hills Public TV. Never occurred to me to call in and ask them about the real ID Act. Really hard to guess how the legislators in my part of state would vote. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. MK DuPree wrote: My response to this forward is...do you have fellow citizens who do same, who won't get involved when they really need to? REJECT REAL ID...Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reference to Real ID Act in State of the Union
I read this from Greg Palast earlier. Too bad he calls into question, valid points about big brother, by mis-characterizing The Strategic Petroleum Reserve. No matter what side of the issue Palast is not the only commentator, to give cause to question their remarks, with obvious spin. I suppose no matter what stripes the politicians and media wears they think the remainder of the population is ignorant. :( Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. MK DuPree wrote: I wish Palast would have referenced outright H.R.1268, Title II (the Real ID Act) in this article, but he makes the point of concern to all US citizens anyway. By the way, New Hampshire has rejected this Act (http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd177.htm). *What are you doing to get your State Reps to do same?* *To get Federal Reps to rescind?* Also, pay attention to Palast's reference to Choice Point. This is the outsourcing of the implementation of Real ID to private industry and the total exposure of our private information without benefit of the Privacy Act (see www.unrealid.com http://www.unrealid.com). I'm tellin ya...*GET INVOLVED* or you WILL hate yourself the morning of May 11, 2008. Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 6 stroke motor
The referenced article mentions steam multiple times, Jason. Google reveals there is another flavor of a 6 stroke engine http://www.sixstroke.com/ , that doesn't seem to be linked with Crower's. I just just can't wrap my imagination around either of them. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. Jason Katie wrote: i think weve seen his 6 cycle work before, but i dont remember anything about steam, maybe a new experiment in the series? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reference to Real ID Act in State of the Union
Doug...not sure what is your point. Could you please restate in other words? Not sure if it's your use of commas or what but I'm not understanding your point. Also, I made a mistake in my remark...New Hampshire has NOT rejected Real ID. I've written to the source of my remark and pointed this out. As I've stated elsewhere, shame on me for not exercising my own due diligence, a lesson learned, which I hope will be helpful to others also. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Reference to Real ID Act in State of the Union I read this from Greg Palast earlier. Too bad he calls into question, valid points about big brother, by mis-characterizing The Strategic Petroleum Reserve. No matter what side of the issue Palast is not the only commentator, to give cause to question their remarks, with obvious spin. I suppose no matter what stripes the politicians and media wears they think the remainder of the population is ignorant. :( Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. MK DuPree wrote: I wish Palast would have referenced outright H.R.1268, Title II (the Real ID Act) in this article, but he makes the point of concern to all US citizens anyway. By the way, New Hampshire has rejected this Act (http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd177.htm). *What are you doing to get your State Reps to do same?* *To get Federal Reps to rescind?* Also, pay attention to Palast's reference to Choice Point. This is the outsourcing of the implementation of Real ID to private industry and the total exposure of our private information without benefit of the Privacy Act (see www.unrealid.com http://www.unrealid.com). I'm tellin ya...*GET INVOLVED* or you WILL hate yourself the morning of May 11, 2008. Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
robert and benita rabello wrote: rabr I am certainly not afraid of reasoned debate on the subject of rabr religion. I've said this before, but it obviously needs to be repeated: if you mean reasoned in the sense of rational, why shouldn't religious claims be subject to the same standards of scrutiny as any other assertion? rabr ... including those of atheists, toward whom I maintain respect that rabr only develops from understanding. How magnanimous of you to tolerate people who refuse to blindly accept unsubstantiated and - to put it mildly - highly implausible claims as being the Ultimate Truth. rabr While I don't agree with some of what the author claims, for the most rabr part he presents a pretty compelling connection between the extremists rabr who call themselves Christians (but are not) and fascism. If by Christian you mean someone who literally believes that Jesus of Nazareth was fathered by a supernatural being without the aid of sexual intercourse and that he possessed magical powers, then the extremists are Christians. If you mean someone who believes and follows what is generally perceived to be the teachings of the New Testament, then they most certainly are not. If you genuinely and sincerely believe in and live by those principles - which seems to be the case - then with my blessings, so to speak. But I don't think a belief in supernatural or metaphysical entities in necessary in order to live morally and ethically. I have to say that I strongly object to your implication that one has to develop an understanding of atheists in order to respect them. I have a strong sense of morals, and I'm an active member of Amnesty International (roughly half of our local group are atheists). The comparison to fascism is apt. Someone once said When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and bearing a cross. And the Islamic counterpart is just as fascistic. rabr There is a rabr very compelling allure to power among people who feel their values have rabr long been trampled by the larger, secular society. Like it or not, the rabr western world in general, and America in particular, are comprised of rabr secular people and controlled by secular institutions. (The secular rabr nature of American government is clearly enshrined in the rabr Constitution!) I'm not at all clear as to what you mean here. A secular society is one in which state and religion are kept separate. What values does this separation trample on? rabr To those who have felt like outsiders, Outsiders? I don't know what the figures are for Canada, but the overwhelming majority of Americans are religious and believe that atheists are not suited to hold a public office. I don't have a reference to hand but I can find one if you insist. rabr ridiculed for rabr their beliefs Pointing out that religious claims are not supported by any evidence is not ridicule, it's a statement of fact. rabr and shouted down by movements promoting minority rights This would seem to imply that religious people are opposed to minority rights. Why else shout them down (if indeed that actually happens)? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Mark Your Calendar!
Doug...check out this website: http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/ Get informed on this issue, then contact your State Rep and Senator to find out what they know about it and what they are doing to get Kansas to Reject Real ID. I live in Lawrence, KS. Maine has rejected it. Other states have bills in the works to do same. There has been a US Senate bill (S.4117) introduced to repeal Real ID, but I'm not sure if S.4117 merely refashions Real ID into some other form. I'm seeking clarification on this now. As I noted in my other response, do your own due diligence along these lines, but do it. The Patriot Act is the noose around our necks...Real ID is the tightening and dropping of the floor boards beneath us. If you agree with me, let me know if there is anything I can do to help you get info or contact Reps or organize an effort to get others involved. We have little time to waste. I was amazed my own State Rep to the KS House didn't know anything about this. I haven't heard back from my State Senator. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Mark Your Calendar! Well I guess that is the American way, Mike. Sucker punch anyone who isn't doing your bidding. ;) Friday nights are Kansas legislator night on Smoky Hills Public TV. Never occurred to me to call in and ask them about the real ID Act. Really hard to guess how the legislators in my part of state would vote. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. MK DuPree wrote: My response to this forward is...do you have fellow citizens who do same, who won't get involved when they really need to? REJECT REAL ID...Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village
I have one of these - I run it on biodiesel. -Weaver BAHARBARI, India: A toxic purple haze of diesel exhaust hangs over the rice and jute fields here in northern India, and bird songs are frequently drowned out by the chug-a-chug-a- chug of diesel generators. Across the developing world, cheap diesel generators from China and elsewhere have become a favorite way to make electricity. They power everything from irrigation pumps to television sets, allowing growing numbers of rural villages in many poor countries to grow more crops and connect to the wider world. But as the demand increases for the electricity that makes those advances possible, it is often being met through the dirtiest, most inefficient means, creating pollution problems in many remote areas that used to have pristine air and negligible emissions of carbon dioxide, the main global warming gas. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/08/business/village.php?page=1 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers
Not to mention farmed salmon is often feed on fishmeal made from frshwater fish from the Great Lakes and they are loaded w/ PCB's. But we are not supposed to talk about it and out government had made it clear the consumer does not need to know this. Zeke Yewdall wrote: Well, less meat would probably be a good idea for the average american, but meat can be had from animals that don't eat corn. It's sort of two different issues, that because of our factory farming structure, get treated like one. And actually, according to The Omivoire's Dilemma, how healthy meat is for us may be as much dependent on what the meat eats, as what kind it is. For example, he mentions that the new corn fed factory Salmon may lack many of the omega 6 fatty acids that are supposed to be the great thing about eating fish... Z On 1/27/07, *Terry Dyck* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about less meat and healthier humans. Terry Dyck From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:20:42 -0600 this just means that farmers wont be able to afford feeding their animals CORN and be forced to graze pastures again. better meat and healthier animals, not too bad i guess... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 11:04 AM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 6 stroke motor
heres where a solar still would come in handy. the only drawback is you would have to scrape the mineral sediments out of the container every so often. if a survivalist can suck the water out of desert sand with a plastic bag, saltwater is childs play. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 6 stroke motor It's not so much peak water, as peak usueable water. If we want freshwater, the oceans are out (or at least expensive to turn into fresh water). That's the problem -- if areas become more arid and glaciers melt, even more of the earth's water will be locked up as saltwater. Z On 1/26/07, doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I hear the term peak water and know the idea behind it, but I can't wrap my mind around the idea that water will become scarcer as the globe warms, unless it escapes our atmosphere into space. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.10/651 - Release Date: 1/24/2007 6:48 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/655 - Release Date: 1/28/2007 1:12 PM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village
I also - runs great on B100 - I use it at work for portable power... - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:08 AM Subject: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village I have one of these - I run it on biodiesel. -Weaver BAHARBARI, India: A toxic purple haze of diesel exhaust hangs over the rice and jute fields here in northern India, and bird songs are frequently drowned out by the chug-a-chug-a- chug of diesel generators. Across the developing world, cheap diesel generators from China and elsewhere have become a favorite way to make electricity. They power everything from irrigation pumps to television sets, allowing growing numbers of rural villages in many poor countries to grow more crops and connect to the wider world. But as the demand increases for the electricity that makes those advances possible, it is often being met through the dirtiest, most inefficient means, creating pollution problems in many remote areas that used to have pristine air and negligible emissions of carbon dioxide, the main global warming gas. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/08/business/village.php?page=1 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
David I find myself unable to consider this a response, it's a mish-mash - I had to go back to my previous post to find out what the hell I'd been talking about. You're sure doing some mighty backpedalling, which is up to you, but cutting all the bits you might find difficult to respond to isn't acceptable. I'll reinstate my post in full and not give you any further reply as I don't consider that the discussion any longer has any integrity. But for this: religion. As to anti-Islam jingoism: political correctness requires us to say that Islam is a religion of peace and it's being hijacked by extremists. Islam is a not a religion of peace. The reason most Muslims aren't homicidal maniacs is that they don't take their religion as seriously as they might. A genuine religion of peace cannot have extremists. A genuine religion of peace would not have any passages in its scriptures that could be construed as sanctioning or calling for violence. A couple of months ago, not for the first time, somebody else asserted that Islam is intrinsically a violent religion and went down in flames, just as you will. However, that's not good enough. Please refer to the previous discussions in the list archives (Fw: Allah or Jesus?), and unless you have something further to offer, withdraw your comments about Islam's allegedly violent nature. Re Harris, eg: http://www.alternet.org/story/46196/ AlterNet: Sam Harris's Faith in Eastern Spirituality and Muslim Torture By John Gorenfeld, AlterNet. Posted January 5, 2007. Keith Previous message in full: Hello again David Sorry, I gave the wrong url for Andrew Brown's article, here's the correct one: http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7803 Reviews: 'Dawkins the dogmatist' by Andrew Brown | Prospect Magazine October 2006 issue 127 Keith Addison wrote: KA weak, so I didn't post it. Andrew Brown (an ex-colleague at The KA Independent) is more reasoned, worth posting. I didn't know you used to write for The Independent, it's the second best British daily. Well, whatever. I've written for most of them, and I was also a staffer at The Independent for a couple of years. Staffers tend to chuckle a bit at its august claims. I stopped reading the online version a long time ago because with half of the articles there's a short summary and then you have to pay a quid to read the whole thing. I don't read the online version either, but you can usually find the articles in full without paying, even if it's a few days later. KA You're mistaken if you think I necessarily agree with news pieces I KA post here. OK, point taken. KA I'm a journalist, after all. Does it inform? Does it KA broaden the debate? Does it add depth? In this case I think it does, KA so I posted it. The article doesn't add anything to the debate. It does. To give an example: The God Delusion trumpets the fact that its author was recently voted one of the world's three leading intellectuals. This survey took place among the readers of Prospect magazine in November 2005. So what did this same Prospect magazine make of the book? Its reviewer was shocked at this incurious, dogmatic, rambling, and self-contradictory book. The title of the review? Dawkins the dogmatist. That's from McGrath's piece, it makes a valid point. You're looking at the atheist vs religionist debate itself, but it's not the arguments per se so much as the situation that's changed - it's secularists who're attacking Dawkins now, not just religionists. Yet you offer him and his attackable book as an antidote to creationist extremism. The tedious atheists also commit atrocities line is wheeled out time and time again, as if it effectively countered the assertion that religion is harmful. It's nothing new. Attacking Dawkins for failing to explain the persistence of religion in the face of rationality is scraping the barrel. That wasn't the primary intention of The God Delusion. KA actually I think the whole KA religionist vs atheist tussle misses the mark. A disturbingly large percentage of the population of the world's economically and militarily most powerful country, which is also the world's biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, seriously believe that a mythical being called Jesus will during their lifetimes descend from the clouds like a superhero and escort his true believers to heaven and then destroy the planet and the rest of of humanity with it. These people therefore don't have the slightest interest in doing anything about environment/climate issues. Religion is relevant. Yes, yes, David, and if you dig back a little (or a lot) you'll find that the first and main source of information here about that has been me. Eg: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg21063.html Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq Keith Addison Sun, 16 Feb 2003 Of course religion is relevant, nonetheless the whole religionist vs atheist tussle misses the mark. IMHO. As I said,
Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
Keith...thank you. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet? David I find myself unable to consider this a response, it's a mish-mash - I had to go back to my previous post to find out what the hell I'd been talking about. You're sure doing some mighty backpedalling, which is up to you, but cutting all the bits you might find difficult to respond to isn't acceptable. I'll reinstate my post in full and not give you any further reply as I don't consider that the discussion any longer has any integrity. But for this: religion. As to anti-Islam jingoism: political correctness requires us to say that Islam is a religion of peace and it's being hijacked by extremists. Islam is a not a religion of peace. The reason most Muslims aren't homicidal maniacs is that they don't take their religion as seriously as they might. A genuine religion of peace cannot have extremists. A genuine religion of peace would not have any passages in its scriptures that could be construed as sanctioning or calling for violence. A couple of months ago, not for the first time, somebody else asserted that Islam is intrinsically a violent religion and went down in flames, just as you will. However, that's not good enough. Please refer to the previous discussions in the list archives (Fw: Allah or Jesus?), and unless you have something further to offer, withdraw your comments about Islam's allegedly violent nature. Re Harris, eg: http://www.alternet.org/story/46196/ AlterNet: Sam Harris's Faith in Eastern Spirituality and Muslim Torture By John Gorenfeld, AlterNet. Posted January 5, 2007. Keith Previous message in full: Hello again David Sorry, I gave the wrong url for Andrew Brown's article, here's the correct one: http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7803 Reviews: 'Dawkins the dogmatist' by Andrew Brown | Prospect Magazine October 2006 issue 127 Keith Addison wrote: KA weak, so I didn't post it. Andrew Brown (an ex-colleague at The KA Independent) is more reasoned, worth posting. I didn't know you used to write for The Independent, it's the second best British daily. Well, whatever. I've written for most of them, and I was also a staffer at The Independent for a couple of years. Staffers tend to chuckle a bit at its august claims. I stopped reading the online version a long time ago because with half of the articles there's a short summary and then you have to pay a quid to read the whole thing. I don't read the online version either, but you can usually find the articles in full without paying, even if it's a few days later. KA You're mistaken if you think I necessarily agree with news pieces I KA post here. OK, point taken. KA I'm a journalist, after all. Does it inform? Does it KA broaden the debate? Does it add depth? In this case I think it does, KA so I posted it. The article doesn't add anything to the debate. It does. To give an example: The God Delusion trumpets the fact that its author was recently voted one of the world's three leading intellectuals. This survey took place among the readers of Prospect magazine in November 2005. So what did this same Prospect magazine make of the book? Its reviewer was shocked at this incurious, dogmatic, rambling, and self-contradictory book. The title of the review? Dawkins the dogmatist. That's from McGrath's piece, it makes a valid point. You're looking at the atheist vs religionist debate itself, but it's not the arguments per se so much as the situation that's changed - it's secularists who're attacking Dawkins now, not just religionists. Yet you offer him and his attackable book as an antidote to creationist extremism. The tedious atheists also commit atrocities line is wheeled out time and time again, as if it effectively countered the assertion that religion is harmful. It's nothing new. Attacking Dawkins for failing to explain the persistence of religion in the face of rationality is scraping the barrel. That wasn't the primary intention of The God Delusion. KA actually I think the whole KA religionist vs atheist tussle misses the mark. A disturbingly large percentage of the population of the world's economically and militarily most powerful country, which is also the world's biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, seriously believe that a mythical being called Jesus will during their lifetimes descend from the clouds like a superhero and escort his true believers to heaven and then destroy the planet and the rest of of humanity with it. These people therefore don't have the slightest interest in doing anything about environment/climate issues. Religion is relevant. Yes, yes, David, and if you dig back a little (or a lot) you'll find that the first and main source of information here about that has been me. Eg:
Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village
Ok, with all due respect, you both have solved one problem, but can you still hear the birdsong? I speak both specifically and metaphorically, so try not to get too cute with me, ok, Miss Grundy? Rufus - Original Message - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village I also - runs great on B100 - I use it at work for portable power... - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:08 AM Subject: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village I have one of these - I run it on biodiesel. -Weaver BAHARBARI, India: A toxic purple haze of diesel exhaust hangs over the rice and jute fields here in northern India, and bird songs are frequently drowned out by the chug-a-chug-a- chug of diesel generators. Across the developing world, cheap diesel generators from China and elsewhere have become a favorite way to make electricity. They power everything from irrigation pumps to television sets, allowing growing numbers of rural villages in many poor countries to grow more crops and connect to the wider world. But as the demand increases for the electricity that makes those advances possible, it is often being met through the dirtiest, most inefficient means, creating pollution problems in many remote areas that used to have pristine air and negligible emissions of carbon dioxide, the main global warming gas. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/08/business/village.php?page=1 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?
David Kramer wrote: (reasoned debate on religion) I've said this before, but it obviously needs to be repeated: if you mean reasoned in the sense of rational, why shouldn't religious claims be subject to the same standards of scrutiny as any other assertion? The reason is that science itself is not subject the same scrutiny. I was taught in school that the scientific method involves a series of steps beginning with a hypothesis, experimentation in which a single variable (or set of related variables), isolated to provide cause, is measured against a control set. The hypothesis becomes theory when it's replicable and verifiable by other scientists. Subjecting the existence of God to this process is simply laughable. How can the existence of God be empirically tested? It's as ludicrous an assertion as using the scientific method to determine whether or not your wife loves you. Yet I was taught in school that life originated in the primordial sea from a combination of organic materials that, when energized by primordial lightning, spontaneously became living organisms. This has NEVER been demonstrated in a laboratory, yet it's taught as fact. Now I contend that belief in spontaneous generation is no greater a leap of faith than my personal belief in God as the creator of the universe. The difficulty with subjecting religion to scientific scrutiny is that the a priori assumtion of atheism is that God doesn't exist, therefore all the evidence we uncover that reveals the history of life on earth is interpreted through that lens. I can look at the same evidence and come up with a different conclusion because my world view is informed by faith in God, whereas yours is informed by faith in atheism. How magnanimous of you to tolerate people who refuse to blindly accept unsubstantiated and - to put it mildly - highly implausible claims as being the Ultimate Truth. The sarcasm is really unnecessary. I understand your view perfectly well, but you're not admitting to your own blindness here. You cannot explain the origin of life by empirical, replicable means. Further, you cannot explain WHY life exists, and merely dismissing the question as irrelevant (by stating something to the effect of: There IS no reason!) because it's not something you can test illustrates your unwillingness to accept that there are questions science and reason simply can't answer. If by Christian you mean someone who literally believes that Jesus of Nazareth was fathered by a supernatural being without the aid of sexual intercourse and that he possessed magical powers, then the extremists are Christians. No. Christians are people who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Either Jesus was who he claimed to be, or he was a raving lunatic. You can't just say: He was a nice guy and a wise teacher while ignoring his other claims about himself. If you mean someone who believes and follows what is generally perceived to be the teachings of the New Testament, then they most certainly are not. If you genuinely and sincerely believe in and live by those principles - which seems to be the case - then with my blessings, so to speak. But I don't think a belief in supernatural or metaphysical entities in necessary in order to live morally and ethically. Nor am I suggesting this is the case! Religion in and of itself does not necessarily cause a person to live a moral life, nor does the lack of belief in the supernatural (which is a funny word, as it leads to a God in the gaps point of view that I don't accept) necessarily equate to immorality. I have to say that I strongly object to your implication that one has to develop an understanding of atheists in order to respect them. I have a strong sense of morals, and I'm an active member of Amnesty International (roughly half of our local group are atheists). Why would you object to this? If I listen to your point of view and develop respect for your intellect through the discourse we share, why would you be insulted by that process? I have never suggested that you, or any other atheist for that matter, is immoral. I'm not at all clear as to what you mean here. A secular society is one in which state and religion are kept separate. What values does this separation trample on? There are many examples of this. Here are a few: My responsibility to raise my children as I see fit is among them. When the secular government insists that I have no right to train my children in harmony with my religious convictions, the secular is trampling on my religion. (And that's happened here in BC.) When the secular government does not allow me full and unrestricted freedom to worship God when and where I see fit, it's trampling on my values. (When the city says: No, you can't build a church, or a mosque, or a temple in our town because the property will become tax exempt.) When the
Re: [Biofuel] Reference to Real ID Act in State of the Union
My response was about Greg Palast's editorial, *not* any error on your part, Mike. As I said Palast makes valid points about big brother, but I wouldn't forward that editorial on to anyone, that I would want to convince of an impending problem. Why? His misrepresentation of the purpose of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, may give others reason to question the remainder of the editorial. I went on to state my opinion, that not only Palast is guilty of misrepresentation. That many on both sides of an issue rely in part of ignorance of their targeted readers. the USA inc. is a simple way to express my take on the state of affairs in our county. Going further IMO the patriot act may be evidence the terrorists have already won. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. MK DuPree wrote: Doug...not sure what is your point. Could you please restate in other words? Not sure if it's your use of commas or what but I'm not understanding your point. Also, I made a mistake in my remark...New Hampshire has NOT rejected Real ID. I've written to the source of my remark and pointed this out. As I've stated elsewhere, shame on me for not exercising my own due diligence, a lesson learned, which I hope will be helpful to others also. Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Life created in a laboratory - was Can these people be trusted with our planet?
Hi Robert, Greetings and felicitations. (snip) Subjecting the existence of God to this process is simply laughable. How can the existence of God be empirically tested? It's as ludicrous an assertion as using the scientific method to determine whether or not your wife loves you. Yet I was taught in school that life originated in the primordial sea from a combination of organic materials that, when energized by primordial lightning, spontaneously became living organisms. This has NEVER been demonstrated in a laboratory, yet it's taught as fact. I take issue with this point though have no quarrel with your argument as a whole. Faith and science as belief systems are incompatible. It is a simple category error to attempt debate between one or the other. One depends on the logic, the other sincere belief. However, life is a fact - we know it because we are alive. Laboratories are a fact, we can visit one at any time to prove that. Your statement that life has never been demonstrated in a lab takes the debate into the realm of logic which allows me to enter it. I have no wish to change your belief, merely to offer information on the single point raised above. Below is a raft of papers on the origin of life as evidenced in laboratory projects. These reports cover only a fraction of the work done worldwide on the subject. Sorry I couldn't provide a live link but if you copy the url into Google it will take you directly to the source. Regards, Bob. Cometary collisions, gun experiments, and the origin of life: ... A paper on prebiotic chemistry from the laboratory of Jack Szostak. www-geology.ucdavis.edu/~cowen/HistoryofLife/CH01.html Extract: Page 8. Making sugars in a Miller-type experiment. Press release. This is a paper from Steven Benner's lab in Florida. Sugars have been difficult to form in prebiotic experiments. Benner has cracked this problem. It turns out that in the presence of borate minerals such as borax, riboses (sugars that are vital components of RNA) form and persist. Borates form as natural minerals in desert basins, in Death Valley, for example. You need evaporation to concentrate them in layers, but serious desert lake beds are not rare on Earth, now or then. This is a neat demonstration that pre-biotic synthesis of important organic materials is still being improved in the lab. The paper itself, Ricardo, A., et al. 2004. Borate minerals stabilize ribose. Science 303, p. 196 will soon be available on the Web to everyone. Page 9. Making peptides from amino acids. A paper in October 2004 reported that the volcanic gas carbonyl sulfide, COS, helps peptides to form from amino acids. It's a real stretch to say, as John Roach does twice in the National Geographic piece, that there have been no plausible ways to form peptides until this study. That's a gratuitous piece of misinformation. The paper is in Science and is now freely available on the Web. Leman, L, et al. 2004. Carbonyl sulfide-mediated prebiotic formation of peptides. Science 306: 283-286. National Geographic news news report on Astrobiology site. The paper from Science Page 10. Jack Szostak and the evolution of protocells. There is major progress in solving this problem in the laboratory. The new experiments apply directly to conditions on the early Earth. These three sites include two fine essays by Carl Zimmer from 2004, both in Discover magazine: Carl Zimmer article from Discover Carl Zimmer blog, September 2004 The latest from Jack Szostak's lab, February 2005, neatly summarized in a Web extra from Discover magazine. Mini-Essays and Comments. Creationism. Mini-essay and Web sites. I really don't want to spend much space on creationism. This perspective will help you to understand why: it's a no-win discussion on each side. Is There Life Anywhere Else But Earth? Mini-essay and Web sites Looking for life on Mars. Web sites with my comments. Claims that Martian life has already been discovered. Web sites with my vicious comments. Chances of Life Elsewhere in the Solar System. Web sites with my comments. Most emphasis on the moons of Jupiter. The Early Earth. Mini-essay. Based largely on Sleep et al. 2001. Where Did Life Evolve? Web sites with my vicious comments. Planets Round Other Stars Web links. The Formation of the Solar System. Web links. Reconstructing the Origin of Life What Darwin wrote Experiments on the Origin of Life Stanley Miller's experiment: 50 years on. Astrobiology magazine, 2003. The origin of life may have been simpler than we thought. Press release, September 19, 2005. It turns out that RNA is more resistant to copying errors than we thought. Therefore naked genes could have been longer (with more information) than we thought. The paper is in Nature Genetics, so won't be freely available on the Web. Robert Hazen's experiments on prebiotic chemistry on mineral surfaces. SpaceflightNow site Cometary collisions, gun experiments, and the origin of life: Science
Re: [Biofuel] Life created in a laboratory - was Can these people be trusted with our planet?
Bob Molloy wrote: Hi Robert, Greetings and felicitations. Thank you!!! (creation of life in a lab) I take issue with this point though have no quarrel with your argument as a whole. Faith and science as belief systems are incompatible. It is a simple category error to attempt debate between one or the other. One depends on the logic, the other sincere belief. However, life is a fact - we know it because we are alive. Laboratories are a fact, we can visit one at any time to prove that. Your statement that life has never been demonstrated in a lab takes the debate into the realm of logic which allows me to enter it. I have no wish to change your belief, merely to offer information on the single point raised above. Below is a raft of papers on the origin of life as evidenced in laboratory projects. These reports cover only a fraction of the work done worldwide on the subject. Sorry I couldn't provide a live link but if you copy the url into Google it will take you directly to the source. Regards, Bob. I think you're misunderstanding my point of view, here because I'm not communicating clearly. My remarks were offered in response to a challenge that belief in God is not subjected to the same criteria that other ideas must pass. I was taught that life began in a primordial soup of organic compounds electrified by lightning. This has never been done, yet it was taught to me as fact. So if the existence of God can't be proven empirically and is therefore dismissed as superstition by atheists, the same standard of proof should be applied to the origin of life by mechanistic means, yet it isn't. Should I dismiss science because the explanation for the origin of life I was taught as a child has not stood up to scrutiny? I'm familiar with the corpus of articles you've cited. There's a LOT of recent work that's been done on prebiotic chemistry, and the postulate that ours was once an RNA world seems compelling--at least right now. Yet you've not uncovered any evidence of living, self-replicating organisms spontaneously arising in a laboratory. (No, I don't think viruses are alive.) However, when we finally arrive at the point where we understand the origin of life (and I'm confident that one day we will), that fact won't preclude the existence of God. I don't believe in a God who fills gaps. Just because we don't understand how life began right now doesn't mean we never will. When we uncover the mechanism, will that destroy faith? I think not! If anything, it will strengthen my faith. Now, as far as faith and logic are concerned, I don't perceive the conflict as you do. My faith is not blind. I've arrived at this point with my eyes wide open, having carefully weighed the evidence presented by those who support a belief in God and those who don't. The conclusions we draw are completely dependent upon whatever lens we've chosen to use in examining the evidence. Man is the measure of all things. (Protagorus) robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice The Long Journey New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village
Is that really the best method to get power in these villages? I grew up with a PV system with a generator backup, and compared to the generator, even the batteries were low maintenance, and they were a pain in the neck. It's just such an expensive (long term, cheap initial cost though), maintenance intensive, noisy, way of getting power.Our neighbors ran theirs for about 10 hours a day to get power -- we were not entirely dissapointed when they tried to refuel it using a kerosene lantern for light, and blew it up. I guess if you are watching the TV, you can't hear the birds anyway, so whether it's from a generator or something quieter is somewhat irrelevant. On 1/28/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, with all due respect, you both have solved one problem, but can you still hear the birdsong? I speak both specifically and metaphorically, so try not to get too cute with me, ok, Miss Grundy? Rufus - Original Message - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village I also - runs great on B100 - I use it at work for portable power... - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:08 AM Subject: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village I have one of these - I run it on biodiesel. -Weaver BAHARBARI, India: A toxic purple haze of diesel exhaust hangs over the rice and jute fields here in northern India, and bird songs are frequently drowned out by the chug-a-chug-a- chug of diesel generators. Across the developing world, cheap diesel generators from China and elsewhere have become a favorite way to make electricity. They power everything from irrigation pumps to television sets, allowing growing numbers of rural villages in many poor countries to grow more crops and connect to the wider world. But as the demand increases for the electricity that makes those advances possible, it is often being met through the dirtiest, most inefficient means, creating pollution problems in many remote areas that used to have pristine air and negligible emissions of carbon dioxide, the main global warming gas. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/08/business/village.php?page=1 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reference to Real ID Act in State of the Union
Thanks Doug...much clearer. Mike - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Reference to Real ID Act in State of the Union My response was about Greg Palast's editorial, *not* any error on your part, Mike. As I said Palast makes valid points about big brother, but I wouldn't forward that editorial on to anyone, that I would want to convince of an impending problem. Why? His misrepresentation of the purpose of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, may give others reason to question the remainder of the editorial. I went on to state my opinion, that not only Palast is guilty of misrepresentation. That many on both sides of an issue rely in part of ignorance of their targeted readers. the USA inc. is a simple way to express my take on the state of affairs in our county. Going further IMO the patriot act may be evidence the terrorists have already won. Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. MK DuPree wrote: Doug...not sure what is your point. Could you please restate in other words? Not sure if it's your use of commas or what but I'm not understanding your point. Also, I made a mistake in my remark...New Hampshire has NOT rejected Real ID. I've written to the source of my remark and pointed this out. As I've stated elsewhere, shame on me for not exercising my own due diligence, a lesson learned, which I hope will be helpful to others also. Mike DuPree ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village
Zeke...right on brother man. I was trying to, oh no, shall I say it...trying to kill two birds with one stone? :P - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village Is that really the best method to get power in these villages? I grew up with a PV system with a generator backup, and compared to the generator, even the batteries were low maintenance, and they were a pain in the neck. It's just such an expensive (long term, cheap initial cost though), maintenance intensive, noisy, way of getting power.Our neighbors ran theirs for about 10 hours a day to get power -- we were not entirely dissapointed when they tried to refuel it using a kerosene lantern for light, and blew it up. I guess if you are watching the TV, you can't hear the birds anyway, so whether it's from a generator or something quieter is somewhat irrelevant. On 1/28/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, with all due respect, you both have solved one problem, but can you still hear the birdsong? I speak both specifically and metaphorically, so try not to get too cute with me, ok, Miss Grundy? Rufus - Original Message - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village I also - runs great on B100 - I use it at work for portable power... - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:08 AM Subject: [Biofuel] It's clean air vs. TV in poor India village I have one of these - I run it on biodiesel. -Weaver BAHARBARI, India: A toxic purple haze of diesel exhaust hangs over the rice and jute fields here in northern India, and bird songs are frequently drowned out by the chug-a-chug-a- chug of diesel generators. Across the developing world, cheap diesel generators from China and elsewhere have become a favorite way to make electricity. They power everything from irrigation pumps to television sets, allowing growing numbers of rural villages in many poor countries to grow more crops and connect to the wider world. But as the demand increases for the electricity that makes those advances possible, it is often being met through the dirtiest, most inefficient means, creating pollution problems in many remote areas that used to have pristine air and negligible emissions of carbon dioxide, the main global warming gas. http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/08/business/village.php?page=1 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
[Biofuel] Hillary's First Night . . .
HILLARY'S FIRST NIGHT AS PRESIDENT . . . Hillary Clinton gets elected President and is spending her first night in the White House. She has waited so long.. The ghost of George Washington appears . . . Hillary says, How can I best serve my country? Washington says . . . Never tell a lie. Ouch! Says Hillary, I don't know about that The next night, The ghost of Thomas Jefferson appears . . . Hillary says, How can I best serve my country? Jefferson says . . . Listen to the people. Ohhh! Says Hillary I really don't want to do that. On the third night, The ghost of Abe Lincoln appears . . . Hillary says, How can I best serve my country? Lincoln says . . . Go to the theater. - Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Life created in a laboratory - was Can these people be trusted with our planet?
Hi Robert ; Quite clear to me also that whoever made this universe we live in knows a lot more than we do. So for the scientists who are trying to figure it all out, I offer a list of tasks : 1) Create all life which is interdependant on all other life. In other words, you cannot just create an amoeba (amazing in itself) in a test tube, you must also create the life that feeds the amoeba and the life that feeds on the amoeba, and it must be created all at the same time. The spider needs the fly, and the fly need 50 other life forms, etc, a million time over. 2) For all that life you must create male and female and then inborn knowledge and instinct. The spider knows how to spin a web without someone teaching it. The animals know how to mate and take care of young without anyone teaching them. 3) Then you must create the worlds and the stars and all of this life from an infinitely hot, infinitiely dense soup of elemetary particles. Not trying to raise the bar too high. BR Peter G. Thailand Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] [biofuel] Solar Cell Needed to power up remote water pumps
Readers - I believe my inquiry qualifies for your biofuel list as I need info on solar cells. Water Conservation Project Needs Solar Cells - If you know of any small solar cell with battery storage please send. I'm working on a project to collect data from very remote water meters for water conservation purposes. I plan to collect data from 3000 gravity driven water meters over a fixed wireless network. The area is too remote to connect with standard electric utility service and ethernet; thus the fixed wireless netwoork. Most importantly I need some type of solar cell with battery storage. The solar cell needs just enough voltage to push enough millamp current to push data through a sensor to a remote terminal unit that collects data and sends over my fixed wireless network. So in order to do this I need to power up the remote meters with some type of solar cell and battery setup. If you know or have info on any small sized solar cell with battery storage please send. The water meters are passive and simply collecting GPM (gallons per minute) information. I need to retrieve that information for water conservation purposes. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers
Hi Zeke, Fish actually contain Omega 3 essential fatty acids not Omega 6. Omega 6 can be obtained by eating seeds, nuts, beans, whole grains, and extra virgin olive oil or by taking Evening Primrose Oil caps or Borage Oil caps. Omega 3 can also be obtained from Flax seed, hemp seed or walnuts. Terry Dyck From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:25:56 -0700 Well, less meat would probably be a good idea for the average american, but meat can be had from animals that don't eat corn. It's sort of two different issues, that because of our factory farming structure, get treated like one. And actually, according to The Omivoire's Dilemma, how healthy meat is for us may be as much dependent on what the meat eats, as what kind it is. For example, he mentions that the new corn fed factory Salmon may lack many of the omega 6 fatty acids that are supposed to be the great thing about eating fish... Z On 1/27/07, Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about less meat and healthier humans. Terry Dyck From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:20:42 -0600 this just means that farmers wont be able to afford feeding their animals CORN and be forced to graze pastures again. better meat and healthier animals, not too bad i guess... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 11:04 AM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live Spaces: share your New Year pictures! http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers
Sorry, I must have confused them. I remembered reading that whatever was good about the fish was lacking in the ones fed corn instead of krill, but didn't remember which one it was. Zeke On 1/28/07, Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Zeke, Fish actually contain Omega 3 essential fatty acids not Omega 6. Omega 6 can be obtained by eating seeds, nuts, beans, whole grains, and extra virgin olive oil or by taking Evening Primrose Oil caps or Borage Oil caps. Omega 3 can also be obtained from Flax seed, hemp seed or walnuts. Terry Dyck From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:25:56 -0700 Well, less meat would probably be a good idea for the average american, but meat can be had from animals that don't eat corn. It's sort of two different issues, that because of our factory farming structure, get treated like one. And actually, according to The Omivoire's Dilemma, how healthy meat is for us may be as much dependent on what the meat eats, as what kind it is. For example, he mentions that the new corn fed factory Salmon may lack many of the omega 6 fatty acids that are supposed to be the great thing about eating fish... Z On 1/27/07, Terry Dyck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about less meat and healthier humans. Terry Dyck From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Boom Cheers Grain Farmers, Pinches Food Makers Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:20:42 -0600 this just means that farmers wont be able to afford feeding their animals CORN and be forced to graze pastures again. better meat and healthier animals, not too bad i guess... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/648 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 11:04 AM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Windows Live Spaces: share your New Year pictures! http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
