Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
Hey Keith, I'm sorry, but I can't buy into this. Even on a small scale algae will out produce anything out there. Even if it's harder to do at the beginning; it can actually solve this problem. I can't see any good reason to go for another crop that really doesn't have a chance to do it. I mean with palm oil, you'd need close to 2 million acres just to fill the order you had a few weeks ago, and that's only a portion of a portion of a portion of what we need. Right now, (if I can get the permits, which I might have to move to another county, we'll see.) My scale will be just under the small scale limits leading into commercial production. Of course this will be dependent on gaining the proficiency of growing algae. When I get the experience under my belt, I'm hoping for a strand that will produce 40% oil. It will easily outstrip any crop out there. And they're not extremely expensive $30-70 for the culture. The difficulty is really in getting to optimum growth rate. The rest of the business is the technicals of making the oil. So please don't try to kill algae; it is probably one of the only crops that will be able to fill the demand we need. I think it's a lot easier to grow when you understand the properties of it. The opportunity that it presents makes it less a dream and a little closer to reality of us being independent. I appreciate the links, was just looking for anyone out there that have found some things along the way. And I'm not discounting the manual at all; just always learning. On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Christopher Does anyone have any tips about the production of b100 using ethanol from wvo and/or algae? I already told you this: There's no such thing as biodiesel from algae apart from a few lab samples. When it does eventually emerge it will almost certainly be on the industrial scale, most likely using patented bio-engineered strains of algae. Not for backyarders. I believe ethanol will be the best bet for me b/c of cost and danger/ regulations, even though it's harder to work with. http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#ethylester Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel This is the first thing it says: 1. Get plenty of experience making biodiesel with methanol before you try it with ethanol. You're starting in the wrong place. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Follow the instructions, step by step. Forget anything else you've read. Study everything on that page and the next page and at the links in the text. It tells you everything you need to know. It's not just us who say so, it's largely the result of a collaborative effort over 10 years involving thousands of people worldwide, it's what works. Keith Addison All the tips will be much much appreciated, especially for the times I don't have pitfalls! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
Hey Keith, I'm sorry, but I can't buy into this. You certainly can't buy into algae. Even on a small scale algae will out produce anything out there. Sigh... Let's try it again. I'll SHOUT this time. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BIODIESEL FROM ALGAE. FULL STOP. You're living in a fantasy. Even if it's harder to do at the beginning; it can actually solve this problem. I can't see any good reason to go for another crop that really doesn't have a chance to do it. I mean with palm oil, you'd need close to 2 million acres just to fill the order you had a few weeks ago, and that's only a portion of a portion of a portion of what we need. Right now, (if I can get the permits, which I might have to move to another county, we'll see.) My scale will be just under the small scale limits leading into commercial production. Of course this will be dependent on gaining the proficiency of growing algae. When I get the experience under my belt, I'm hoping for a strand that will produce 40% oil. It will easily outstrip any crop out there. And they're not extremely expensive $30-70 for the culture. The difficulty is really in getting to optimum growth rate. The rest of the business is the technicals of making the oil. So please don't try to kill algae; I have always supported the production of biofuels from algae, for more than 10 years, often helping people who were attempting to produce it on a DIY scale. None of them ever got anywhere. So don't accuse me of trying to kill it, you're talking through your hat. it is probably one of the only crops that will be able to fill the demand we need. Let's try giving you another link that you'll ignore: How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch I think it's a lot easier to grow when you understand the properties of it. The opportunity that it presents makes it less a dream and a little closer to reality of us being independent. Yes, Christopher, if you say so, Christopher. LOL! I appreciate the links, No you don't, you didn't even look at them properly, if at all. You prefer your fantasy world. Not only that, you're taking no notice of the rest of the current discussions on the list. And not only that, you're failing to use the list resources, which you were instructed to do when you joined. In fact you're right out of line. Beware. Keith Addison Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner was just looking for anyone out there that have found some things along the way. And I'm not discounting the manual at all; just always learning. On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Christopher Does anyone have any tips about the production of b100 using ethanol from wvo and/or algae? I already told you this: There's no such thing as biodiesel from algae apart from a few lab samples. When it does eventually emerge it will almost certainly be on the industrial scale, most likely using patented bio-engineered strains of algae. Not for backyarders. I believe ethanol will be the best bet for me b/c of cost and danger/ regulations, even though it's harder to work with. http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#ethylester Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel This is the first thing it says: 1. Get plenty of experience making biodiesel with methanol before you try it with ethanol. You're starting in the wrong place. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Follow the instructions, step by step. Forget anything else you've read. Study everything on that page and the next page and at the links in the text. It tells you everything you need to know. It's not just us who say so, it's largely the result of a collaborative effort over 10 years involving thousands of people worldwide, it's what works. Keith Addison All the tips will be much much appreciated, especially for the times I don't have pitfalls! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Why Fukushima made me stop worrying and love nuclear power (George Monbiot)
On 11-04-01 12:29 AM, Chris Burck wrote: been hoping this thread wouldn't die out before finding a moment to adress the topic. fortunately, much of what i wanted to say has already been said so i don't have to try and carve out as much time! clearly, life as we in the developed world (and increasing numbers of people in the developing world) live it, is unsustainable. as has been rightly pointed out, we *will* change how we live. the only question is whether we participate in and shape that change. this discussion hinges on two words (which i really thought would've come up sooner than they did): paradigm shift. it's not about sacrificing this or that, but opening our eyes to what's real and shifting our priorities. deciding what we really need. the world right now is a freaking gigantic mess. changing it. . .OMG just think about that for a second (change *that*!?!). makes you feel pretty tiny and helpless, right? I mean where the devil do you start? as bakunin would say, start with yourself. that helpless feeling i mentioned a second ago? well, pretty much everyone around you feels the same way. what's the best antidote? do stuff. i'm pretty tired and since i can't keep my train of thought i'm starting to sermonize which is one of the worst forms of human interaction. i think it was chip who said that one of the best forms of communication is to *do*. couldn't agree more. anyway, hoping everyone is well, -chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110401/93d2896d/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ But than Chris, Einstein allready sayd it: You cant change the courrent state of mess we are in with the same thinking that brougth as in at first! Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Topic Morphing was Fuel grade ethanol
Apologies if I'm out of line. Would it be better if, when one wants to change one topic to an entirely different topic Ex Thread on Fuel Grade Ethanol to an entirely different topic, Ex Biodiesel from Algae, they would change the title in the subject? Yesterday I searched the list archives www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org Once again I found them to be more valuable than google-land. The only problem encountered was when I followed a lead, only to find that the content did not match the subject (Heading). Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Christopher Morris Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 6:47 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol Hey Keith, I'm sorry, but I can't buy into this. Even on a small scale algae will out produce anything out there. Even if it's harder to do at the beginning; it can actually solve this problem. I can't see any good reason to go for another crop that really doesn't have a chance to do it. I mean with palm oil, you'd need close to 2 million acres just to fill the order you had a few weeks ago, and that's only a portion of a portion of a portion of what we need. Right now, (if I can get the permits, which I might have to move to another county, we'll see.) My scale will be just under the small scale limits leading into commercial production. Of course this will be dependent on gaining the proficiency of growing algae. When I get the experience under my belt, I'm hoping for a strand that will produce 40% oil. It will easily outstrip any crop out there. And they're not extremely expensive $30-70 for the culture. The difficulty is really in getting to optimum growth rate. The rest of the business is the technicals of making the oil. So please don't try to kill algae; it is probably one of the only crops that will be able to fill the demand we need. I think it's a lot easier to grow when you understand the properties of it. The opportunity that it presents makes it less a dream and a little closer to reality of us being independent. I appreciate the links, was just looking for anyone out there that have found some things along the way. And I'm not discounting the manual at all; just always learning. On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Christopher Does anyone have any tips about the production of b100 using ethanol from wvo and/or algae? I already told you this: There's no such thing as biodiesel from algae apart from a few lab samples. When it does eventually emerge it will almost certainly be on the industrial scale, most likely using patented bio-engineered strains of algae. Not for backyarders. I believe ethanol will be the best bet for me b/c of cost and danger/ regulations, even though it's harder to work with. http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#ethylester Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel This is the first thing it says: 1. Get plenty of experience making biodiesel with methanol before you try it with ethanol. You're starting in the wrong place. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Follow the instructions, step by step. Forget anything else you've read. Study everything on that page and the next page and at the links in the text. It tells you everything you need to know. It's not just us who say so, it's largely the result of a collaborative effort over 10 years involving thousands of people worldwide, it's what works. Keith Addison All the tips will be much much appreciated, especially for the times I don't have pitfalls! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
Anyone interested in the compatibility of hydrated ethanol with gasoline might want to look at Figure 14-14 on p 357 of David Blume's Alcohol Can Be A Gas. The figure is entitled Fuel Compatibility Among Water, Ethanol, and Gasoline. It is a diagram produced by the Society of Automotive Engineers. It indicates that: - at about 68F (20C), alcohol with as much as 45% water will mix with gasoline and NOT separate. - 80% ethanol:20% water will not separate from gasoline down to about 14F (-10C) - at 4% water, alcohol will form a stable mix with gasoline down to about 122F (-38C) Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol
In an earlier post I asked about using a methanol/ethanol blend in my flex fuel Ford Ranger. It has been brought to my attention that Ford recommends against such a blend: Do not use fuel containing methanol. It can damage critical fuel systems components. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol
Hello all and Tom especially. There is a saying explaining that methanol is like ethanol but more. This is used to point out that the disadvantages of ethanol is more with methanol. I suppose that Ford is too mean to equip the fuel system for methanol.. Methanol is corrosive, even more that water. The engine will consume twice as much with metanol than with gasoline. And if I remember correctly, methanol has a higher vapour generating value than ethanol, meaning that it demands more energy to enter the gas phase, which can lead to cold starting problems. And during warm-up of the engine the methanol produces more of the even so corrosive substances, such as formaldehyde which also is poisonous. It is a well-known fact that most motor oils are not able to neutralize these corrosion agents, so one can expect an engine wear of twice the value than for gasoline. Apart from this is methanol an excellent fuel, especially if there was methanol from biological sources available. Best regards to you all Jan W - Original Message - From: Tom Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 3:49 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol In an earlier post I asked about using a methanol/ethanol blend in my flex fuel Ford Ranger. It has been brought to my attention that Ford recommends against such a blend: Do not use fuel containing methanol. It can damage critical fuel systems components. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apart from this is methanol an excellent fuel, especially if there was methanol from biological sources available. You could always skip the methyl alcohol and just use biogas. About as biological as it gets with far less toxicity issues. Of course, handling methane gas (I can just hear the Brits saying meee-thane) presents it's own issues. Best regards to you all ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
