[Biofuel] Monsanto's Crimes Against Humanity
http://wakeup-world.com/2011/11/10/monsantos-crimes-against-humanity/ Monsanto's Crimes Against Humanity /By Pure Energy Systems News http://pesn.com// //*/It's almost time to say goodbye to the food your grandparents consumed, because genetically modified crops have spread their toxic attributes across the globe. As their damaged genetics spread, their potential harm is being denied, and scientists who speak out are persecuted. By Hank Mills http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Hank_Mills/* Big businesses seek to produce big profits. Most big businesses will do whatever it takes to maximize their profits, despite the consequences that may result. An example of this is the biotechnology industry. Biotech companies like Monsanto are genetically engineering food crops such as corn, potatoes, tomatoes, wheat, and others; without adequate testing to insure they will not harm the humans and animals that consume them. Without adequately testing for safety while bribing the regulators and politicians, they are pushing potentially life threatening foods on the entire human population and threatening the biosphere. A couple year old documentary from 2009 called Scientists Under Attack http://www.scientistsunderattack.com/ is discussed in a recent Infowars http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Infowars_and_Prison_Planet_by_Alex_Jones YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel#p/u/5/_ENPyDuR23s. The documentary details how scientists who blew the whistle on the dangers of genetically modified foods have faced severe persecution. For example, after performing tests on mice that determined genetically modified potatoes produced multiple health problems in mice (immunity problems, regarded growth, organ failure, etc), one scientist was hailed as a hero by his employer. However, the next day, a call came in from the UK Prime Minister's office. The person who called put pressure on his employer, and the next day he was fired. During the documentary and the discussion about it on YouTube, the specific dangers of these genetically modified organisms (GMOs) are discussed. In many scientific tests, they have produced organ failure, cancer, infertility, and other illnesses in lab animals. However, Monsanto ignored the results of these tests, even when their own scientists urged them to do additional testing. It is also discussed now the FDA is in league with biotechnology companies like Monsanto, and ignores evidence of the dangers of GMO crops; and allowing GMO products to be sold unlabeled as such. One big issue the documentary addresses is the fact that the product of the one specific gene inserted into the genetically modified organism does not produce the health problems in lab animals. This is known for a fact, because the insecticides produced by the inserted gene was fed to lab animals, and did not produce toxicity. However, the insertion process used to inject the gene into the plant seems to have done general genetic damage to the organism. Instead of just one gene being changed, many genes may have been changed. Monsanto and other companies did not investigate this. Yet another danger of GMOs is that their genes can spread to other crops. When pollen is released from genetically modified crops, the wind can spread the pollen, and their genes can spread to other farms. The result is that farmers who had no desire to grow genetically modified crops end up doing so against their will. In the documentary genetic modifications are found to have spread a thousand miles, from the closest farm where genetically modified crops are grown. What makes matters worse is when companies like Monsanto find out that farms have been contaminated with their toxic genes, they sue the farmers! They demand that the farmers pay THEM money to use the genetic modifications, because they claim the farmers STOLE the genes. This is insane. The farmers should be getting money from Monsanto for having their property damaged and contaminated. *One very concerning issue brought up was the fact that Monsanto hired a PR firm that created two fake online identities, who claimed to be scientists that went around the internet pushing the agenda that GMO food is safe. This is blatant manipulation of the public debate to push an agenda that has resulted in harm to human beings.* Could certain energy companies be doing the same thing, by creating fake online personas to try and discredit free energy? It seems very possible, when there are obviously misleading individuals --- attacking every free energy claim --- going by obviously false names such as Mary Yugo, one of the first names to post comments in nearly any controversial free energy news page, such as the E-Cat. Other issues are brought up in the video as well. For example... * How almost all of certain crops in the USA (such as corn) have been contaminated due to cross pollination with GMOs.
[Biofuel] Keith, will you be in Durban?
http://unfccc.int/2860.php AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] India plans 'safer' nuclear plant powered by thorium
On 11/2/11 10:41 PM, Paul Landis wrote: You will see some dates go back to the 1980's: Obviously the U.S. nuclear killers prevented this from an early birth. If you dig into this technology you'll see dates that go back to the 1960's, and some even to the late 1950's. Of the bunch of thorium reactors, the most fail-safe, and the most efficient, is the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor, which also creates the least waste. In the pressurized heavy water reactors, the CANDU, designed and built in Canada is also an interesting design. Because its heavy water moderator is so much more efficient than a light water reactor, it can run on low enriched uranium, it can use spent fuel rods from light water reactors, and it can even burn nuclear waste. Paul Landis is correct. The US pressurized light water reactor industry had, as a primary but unwritten mission goal, the production of plutonium for the US nuclear weapons program. That said, I do like to see some production of non weapons grade plutonium, because we need it for RTG's for our deep space probes. While it is still plutonium, it is a different isotope from the weapons grade stuff, and RTG's get power out of it by the heat from natural decay, and they have no moving parts. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 650, 000 Americans Joined Credit Unions Last Month - More Than in All of 2010 Combined
On 11/5/11 7:44 AM, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.truth-out.org/65-americans-joined-credit-unions-last-month-more-all-2010-combined/1320412458 650,000 Americans Joined Credit Unions Last Month - More Than in All of 2010 Combined I wasn't one of them. I've been a credit union member for 30 years. :-) AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Vinod Khosla Discusses Biofuels `Surprise'; Oil Market: Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6rwpHKNp8A He says there are half a dozen biofuel technologies that can compete with Oil. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Muscovy Ducks Soon to Be Illegal to Own in US
Keith Addison wrote: More re aggressive kids: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:08:46 + Sender: Organic Gardening Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Laura McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: look at the duck! To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, a quick rave. We went to the botanical garden today and headed, as usual, to the Japanese garden area fairly quickly. At the pond were two beautiful Canadian geese. They hissed a bit at Jill but we stayed quiet and watched them for a while at a pretty close range. At 3 feet, Canadian geese are marvelous creatures and this pair was very brave. Three adults and two little girls came up while we were watching and not only did they run at these poor geese (who bravely stood their ground and hissed) but all three adults at varying times said look at the duck! I had a similar moment years ago at the top of Sandia Peak where a raven flew by and a whole lot of people standing there shouted, Eagle! Eagle! Sean tells me I'm being over sensitive but I say again, You can't conserve or even care about conserving that which you know nothing of. [snip] D'oh! At work a couple of weeks ago I watched a particularly graceful bird fly around the airport gates, and then fly off toward the airport hotel. One of the guys I work with asked me if it was a pigeon. No, it was a falcon. It was hunting pigeons. For an astonishing number of people a bird is just a bird. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Re: [Homesteading Lifestyle] Muscovies update
Keith Addison wrote: Fwd, FYI: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Homestead Springsberry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:06:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [Homesteading Lifestyle] Muscovies update Folks, I'm not happy about this. My family is large, and a muscovy duck fits our new Dutch Oven nicely. (Thanks for snagging that for me when I was too busy fighting snowflakes to go buy it that day, T-bone!)I posted about it a bit ago. Little did I know that our govicorp had such plans to criminalize a homesteading mom's attempts to feed her big gangling hollow legged teen boys. The law, as I read it, specifically exempts food production. If you're raising muscovies for food then you're reasonably safe. For now. I think it is specifically the exotic pet owners they're going after. Those are the ones who have wound up introducing muscovies into areas where they were not naturally. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Muscovy Ducks Soon to Be Illegal to Own in US
Keith Addison wrote: [snip] I plan to send in pics of my birds and give a summary of where I am trying to go with breeding efforts along with my birds names. These pics will include my children with the birds as part of the problem is that they are seen as aggressive and are feared by many due to the caruncles on the heads. Many years ago, when I was in elementary school, which might tell you just how long ago it was, the little private school I attended had some of the parents donate a muscovy duck for us to raise in the little pond on the property. We named the duck Quacker. After about a year or so the duck turned aggressive and started attacking children, at one point sending one to the emergency room. Quacker got a new name after that: Dinner. An aggressive muscovy is like a biting dog. You just don't have one around. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Book Recommendation: Free Lunch, by David Cay Johnston
http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/B002HREKHS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1268066233sr=1-1 It is US centric, but it's a good read. The on-topic part of the book relates to the electric power industry and why so many utilities throw so many roadblocks in the path of any microproducers who want to build grid intertied PV and wind systems. Johnston doesn't go specifically into grid intertied systems, but he goes into some depth about how the power companies in the US today rig the system so that they make silly amounts of money selling power at highly inflated rates to the grid. In a nutshell, thanks to Enron lobbyists, the laws regulating the electric power industry are rigged so that they have a kind of auction system such that whatever power generator that bids the _highest_ for any particular time slot gets the high price, and everyone else providing power to that time slot gets the same price. The difference between the bid price and the actual price is profit. This allows generating companies to jack up the price that the utilities have to pay, sometimes to ridiculous levels, with only a small chance of getting caught at it. The key is that the regulated utilities and the unregulated generating companies are most often owned by the same corporate parent, and this is what causes the problems for microproducers. As I figure it, this means that the real reason the utilities throw such roadblocks into the path of microproducers doesn't have to do as much with control as it does with profit. Every kilowatt hour that microproducers put onto the grid is a kilowatt hour that the utility doesn't have to buy from a generating company at inflated prices. Since the utility and the generating company are more likely than not owned by the same corporate parent, this means a lower profit margin for the corporate parent. In a way I suppose it is about power: The power to squeeze every last cent out of the consumer. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The War on Toyota: It's All Politics
Keith Addison wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24852.htm [snip] But this isn't about bloodshed and it's certainly not safety regulations. It's about politics--bare-knuckle Machiavellian politics. An attack on Toyota is an attack on Japan's leading export. It is an act of war. Here's a excerpt from the New York Times which explains what is really going on: Hmm... This puts me in mind of the book /Debt Of Honor/. Only this time it's electronics rather than gas tanks. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Prius subject to U.S., Japan brake gripes
Keith Addison wrote: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20100204a1.html I'd say it's coming up on a good time to buy Toyota stock. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy Volt
Darryl McMahon wrote: I'm not holding my breath waiting on this. Just like the line, 'hydrogen is the fuel of the future, and always will be', I fear the Volt is GM hype that will never reach the mainstream market. Me as well. GM shooting themselves in the foot? Imagine that! AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Massachusetts company plans to build Florida's first ethanol plant
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/article968025.ece By Asjylyn Loder, Times Staff Writer In Print: Friday, January 16, 2009 TALLAHASSEE — A Massachusetts company on Thursday announced plans to build Florida's first ethanol plant, and one of the first cellulosic ethanol plants in the nation. Verenium plans to build a 36-million-gallon-a-year plant in Highlands County, northwest of Lake Okeechobee, fueling it with a fast-growing plant similar to sugarcane. The $250-million project relies on a pioneering technology developed by University of Florida scientists which unlocks the energy potential of plants other than ethanol's traditional feedstocks like sugar and corn. We're thrilled, said Lonnie Ingram, the University of Florida professor who led the research. The university is just delighted with the achievements of Verenium, even more so because it's going to be in Florida, our home state. Construction on the project is slated to begin this year, with production expected to begin in 2011. The feedstocks will be sweet sorghum and a crop that Verenium has dubbed energy cane. Lykes Bros Inc. has agreed to grow the cane on 20,000 acres next to the plant. The project won a $7-million farm to fuel grant from the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. It is expected to create 140 full-time jobs. A handful of other cellulosic projects have been announced around the country, but Verenium, which already has a functioning pilot plant in Louisiana, is further along than other companies, Ingram said. The Cambridge, Mass., company is also planning projects in Alabama, Louisiana and Texas. This plant, the first of many we anticipate building in the years ahead, will help fulfill the U.S. government's mandate for advanced, sustainable biofuels to meet America's energy needs, said Carlos A. Riva, president and chief executive of Verenium. • • • Traditional ethanol production relies on the easily fermentable sugars found in sugar and corn. A yeast is added to ferment the sugars into alcohol, which is then further refined into fuel. Cellulosic takes advantage of the energy locked in the stalks and leaves of the plant. The hard part is breaking the sugars down, Ingram explained. The starch is meant to come apart, and the stems and leaves were meant to stay together. Nature designed the energy in corn and sugarcane to come apart easily into sugars, he said. Leaves, branches and stems also contain energy, but their sturdier construction makes them tougher to pull apart. The process used by Verenium uses steam and enzymes to break down the hardier fibrous portions of plants into sugars. The next step is turning the sugars into alcohol. The simple sugars derived from corn and sugarcane — glucose and sucrose — were easily digested by yeast. The cellulosic sugars proved more complex. That's where professor Ingram and his collaborators came in. They needed an organism that would easily consume all of the sugars. Ingram spliced together E. coli bacteria with two genes from a bacteria used to make tequila. The organism digested the other sugars. • • • Ingram has watched over the years as interest in ethanol waxed and waned. When gas prices soared, funding for research became more plentiful. When gas prices plunged, funding dried up. Interest resurged in the last five years, fueled by efforts to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, ween the country off of foreign fuels and keep gas prices low. Ethanol production in the United States soared, from 1,400-million gallons a year in 1998 to 6,500-million gallons a year in 2007, according to the Renewable Fuels Association, an industry lobbying group of which Verenium is a member. The number of U.S. ethanol plants more than doubled, from 50 in 1999 to 110 in 2007, according to the group's numbers. Production surged again last year following a federal law signed in late 2007 that called for the United States to use 36-billion gallons a year of renewable fuel by 2022. The mandate spurred criticism that the United States would divert food crops from the dinner table to the gas tank. All but a fraction of U.S. ethanol comes from corn. The appeal of cellulosic ethanol is that it does not rely on food crops, and that it makes fuel out of parts of the plant that would be wasted. Asjylyn Loder can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (813) 225-3117. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] America, Meet Your New Local Military
Keith Addison wrote: If you think I'm going to argue with you about G.I. Joe and Barbie and what I suppose you see as an election, well, sorry, I'm not going to do that. http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/ Brigade homeland tours start Oct. 1 3rd Infantry's 1st BCT trains for a new dwell-time mission. Helping 'people at home' may become a permanent part of the active Army The words posse comitatus come to mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act Yet another trampling of the Constitution and law by the Bush II administration. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Diesel fuel from fungus
http://www.springerlink.com/content/c8l814q6064m0u75/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] EE Times: MIT claims 24/7 solar power
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=209900956cid=NL_eet AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] YOUR EFFORT CAN BRING THE OIL PRICE DOWN
Keith Addison wrote: Hi Darryl, Sivaramakrishnan The logic assumes, once yet again, that it has something to do with supply and demand - soaring prices obviously mean supply isn't keeping up with demand. Nope - there's plenty of oil, there's no shortage, and demand is falling, yet the price keeps going up. As you say Darryl, this is not Adam Smith's world. Amory Lovins, of the Rocky Mountain Institute, made the observation that more than 90% of the world's petroleum reserves are held by countries that consider their petroleum reserves national secrets, and keep information about them close to the chest, so in reality we just don't know how much oil there really is out there. Actually it is. Adam Smith didn't like corporations, nor governments. He viewed government primarily as an instrument for extracting taxes to subsidize elites and intervening in the market to protect corporate monopolies. Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all. All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind. (The Wealth of Nations) Frank Herbert had a good observation, published as part of his /Dune/ series. Governments, if they endure always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class -- whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy. -Politics as Repeat Phenomenon: Bene Gesserit Training Manual AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [biofuel] Re: Diesel Aircraft
Realty Projects wrote: I like you all live for flying and looking forward to a diesel power plant water cooled for a Vans 10 project. How long before Lycoming or Continental have a suitable engine? Don't hold your breath. Continental has had their CITEC engine, they refuse to call it a Diesel, under development for about 15 years now, and I have yet to hear anything about them releasing an actual product. Apparently after NASA's development money ran out Continental decided they didn't want to continue research on the project. Lycoming announced the intent to develop a diesel engine back in 2005, and so far have produced zilch. The most promising manufacturer of aviation diesel engines, Thielert, just went bankrupt, even though they have supplied the majority of the aviation diesel engines now in service. http://www.thielert.com/ Wilksch Airmotive, in England, looks promising, if they can stay in business. http://www.wilksch.co.uk/ SNECMA's SMA Engines division also looks promising. http://www.smaengines.com/ If you don't need a certificated engine then you might like Deltahawk: http://www.deltahawkengines.com/ The best resource for you is the Dieselair Newsletter. http://dieselair.com/ The editor, Andre Teissier-DuCros has forgotten more about aviation diesel engines than I know. If you really want a Lyconasaur in your airplane then you'll have to stick with an Otto engine. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [biofuel] Re: Diesel Aircraft
Realty Projects wrote: I like you all live for flying and looking forward to a diesel power plant water cooled for a Vans 10 project. How long before Lycoming or Continental have a suitable engine? Oh yeah, I forgot one. The Austro Engine: http://www.austroengine.at/home/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] José Can You See? Bush's Trojan T aco
Keith Addison wrote: From: Greg Palast [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 02:19:37 -0400 Subject: José Can You See? Bush's Trojan Taco José Can You See? Bush's Trojan Taco By Greg Palast Monday April 21, 2008 (for http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/jos-can-you-see-bush-s-trojan-tacoTomPaine.com) Funny, that. The Interamerican Development Bank just had a meeting in Miami, which was attended by the heads of the national banks of pretty much the entire western hemisphere. Where did I find the _only_ media coverage of the event? CNN En Español. Not CNN, CNNFN, FNN, CNBC, MSNBC, not even Bloomburg. None of the financial media had it either. CNN En Español. At the same time all of the other news media were swamped with coverage of the raid on the FLDS ranch in Texas. It makes one wonder about the timing. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer
Keith Addison wrote: [snip] Others had estimated total reserves of about 900 billion barrels. Does anyone really know? Matt Simmons says they don't know, and that they tell lies. How would any of us find out for sure? We can't. So we're left to take it on faith - true believers vs sceptics, whether it's that there's more than enough or that we're running out. As Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute http://www.rmi.org/ has pointed out, 94% of the world's petroleum reserves are owned by countries which consider them national secrets, and hold their information close to the chest. For this reason we don't really know with any degree of accuracy just how much oil there is out there. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Thunder Sky EV-6700
http://www.thunder-sky.com/pdf/ev-6700.pdf Is this thing really a product, or is it vaporware? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] This home is so green, it's gold
http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/09/Homes/This_home_is_so_green.shtml tampabay.com This home is so green, it's gold Building with Earth-friendly materials and reusing water earns elite certification. By Judy Stark, Times Homes and Garden Editor Published February 9, 2008 ST. PETERSBURG - The green home that has been under construction since May on a quiet street in northeast St. Petersburg opens its doors to the public today and Sunday. Visitors will see the only home in Florida that has been certified gold by the U.S. Green Building Coalition under its LEED program - Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design - and one of only 19 gold-certified homes in the nation. Details on the LEED program, Page 5F. I haven't stood back to look at it for a while, but it looks good, owner Darren Brinkley, 37, said a few days ago as he stepped into the street to get a long look at the home. His parents, Jan and Tony, regular winter visitors from England, were putting on the finishing touches, polishing and painting for the weekend open house. It was last May that Brinkley began deconstructing a rundown 744-square-foot home on the site, removing and recycling doors and windows, leaving only the original walls to become what is now an oversize two-car garage (with its original terrazzo floor). The new home - four bedrooms and three baths in 2,000 air-conditioned square feet - rests on pilings above the original building. He and a few friends and his father did 95 percent of the work ourselves. Brinkley plans to use the contemporary-style home as a model to show prospective clients that a green home isn't a mud hut with a chimney in the middle. Among the home's green features: - Bamboo flooring - Recycled-glass countertops in the kitchen - Low- or no-VOC paints, stains and finishes - Dual-flush toilets - Walls and roof constructed from structural insulated panels, sandwiches of foam sided with wood - A geothermal heating and air-conditioning system - A graywater reuse system that recycles water from the bathroom sinks and showers and the washing machine to flush toilets - A 1,000-gallon rainwater cistern - Florida-friendly landscaping - A backyard pond to attract birds and wildlife, fed by runoff from the dehumidifier - Energy Star appliances The home is certified by the federal Energy Star program to be at least 15 percent more efficient than codes require. By Energy Star's estimate, his electric bill will be $100 a month. Brinkley thinks it will be even lower, around $70 a month. He used no solar energy: The house is designed and built so efficiently, it's not cost-effective, he said of solar. The key to a truly green home is to start at the design and planning stage. That's what he intends to do through his business, REAL Building, a green consulting firm. The name stands for responsible, efficient, attainable living. Brinkley said a Realtor recently valued the home at $549,000. The county has not yet appraised it for tax purposes. Building green costs no more than conventional building, he said. He said most prospective clients do know how much they have to spend and are willing to make tradeoffs to achieve their priorities within their budget. What's gratifying, he said, is the support he received from city officials and inspectors and from green suppliers, and the increasing awareness of green building as mainstream. Now, two years after he first sketched out the house while on vacation in the French Alps, everyone knows what green building is. Judy Stark can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (727) 893-8446. - - - Visiting the house Darren Brinkley's green home is open for public tours from noon to 6 p.m. today and Sunday. The house is at 216 84th Ave. NE in the Riviera Bay neighborhood of St. Petersburg. From Fourth Street N, turn east on 83rd Avenue N. Cross the canal and turn left on Orient Way NE, then immediately left on 84th Avenue NE. The house is ahead on the left. Information: (727) 388-9777 or www.realbuilding.com. What does LEED mean? LEED stands for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, the nationally accepted benchmark for the design, operation and construction of high-performance green buildings. There are four certification levels - certified, silver, gold and platinum - depending on the number of credits accrued in five green design categories: sustainable sites, water efficiency, energy and atmosphere, materials and resources and indoor environmental quality. The program is administered by the U.S. Green Building Council. Information: www.usgbc.gov, or the National Resource Defense Council site at www.nrdc.org. For information about the Energy Star program, administered by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, go to www.energystar.gov. © 2007 • All Rights Reserved • St. Petersburg Times 490 First Avenue South • St. Petersburg, FL 33701 • 727-893-8111 Contact the Times | Privacy Policy |
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
John Mullan wrote: Zeke: Are you talking about $30K to change out a battery pack, or a whole lithium based vehicle for $30K? Seems to me that would be a real bargain. Indeed it would. If I could find a Lithium BEV that cheap that would do what I need then I might look seriously into it. With $3+/gallon gasoline, and diesel fuel more than that, and my 30 mile daily commute, payback would come pretty quickly with that. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Thankyou! Re: Off-topic - Any eBay regulars?
Keith Addison wrote: Hi Alan, and all Thanks for asking, I was just about to write. Have you found what you need yet? Yes I have, thanks to the wise counsel of list members. Cool. The package arrived yesterday, I installed it last night, all's fine, no problem, good deal. Excellent. So much for Adobe's dastardly plot to leave a person stranded without their website management software of choice, hah! Also hmph. Take _THAT_, Adobe! :-) Keep on keeping on, AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
John Mullan wrote: Even better with my 50 mile commute. My wife's career is here, mine 50 miles out. No savings by moving, still adds up to 100 miles per day. :( My problem is that I have stretches of interstate highway no matter how I go, so I need a vehicle that will go 75mph, and keep going 75mph for at least 12 miles in each direction. So far most of the affordable BEV's that I've seen either a) won't go that fast, or b) won't go that fast for that long. Or c) just plain don't have the range I need. Plus there's no chance of topping up the charge while I'm at work so I'd need to go the whole round trip on a single charge. AP Alan Petrillo wrote: John Mullan wrote: Zeke: Are you talking about $30K to change out a battery pack, or a whole lithium based vehicle for $30K? Seems to me that would be a real bargain. Indeed it would. If I could find a Lithium BEV that cheap that would do what I need then I might look seriously into it. With $3+/gallon gasoline, and diesel fuel more than that, and my 30 mile daily commute, payback would come pretty quickly with that. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] English (was Economic Freedom)
Dawie Coetzee wrote: Hi Robert I've always thought the ability to think in more than one language a great aid to understanding what one means by something. You've doubtless seen how unexpected nuances of meaning come out when you translate thoughts back and forth between English and Portuguese, as I do when translating between English and Afrikaans. Sometimes things just don't translate directly, and a thought in one language sits half-way between the nearest two terms in the other. The same applies to some extent with dialects of the same language: it is useful to be able to speak both old-BBC and soccer-hooligan (i.e. new-BBC), provided neither is reduced to mere caricature. I found that I'd never thought so much about English as when I was learning Esperanto, and that is equally true of my current effort to learn Spanish. Unfortunately our facility with language tends to ossify with age, and some have it naturally in greater measure than others. Mine was well past it by the time I had any real desire to learn Xhosa. No amount of exposure to people speaking the language will afford me more than a few basic phrases. The only word I understand out of a friend of mine's six-year-old daughter's unbroken stream of Xhosa is mlungu (white guy), which she pronounces mlooongu with reference to me! chuckle That is why it is important to teach children varieties of languages, while they are still able to pick it up easily. I'll agree with that. I'm encouraging my son to learn as many languages as he can stuff between his ears. As for me, I'm determined that I'm going to learn to speak good Spanish if it kills me. You made an important reference to systemics a few posts back: So why does more opportunity for financial success exist in the northern, developed nations? It's clear to me that we can't credit the people of northern nations themselves, given that my family derives from the dark-skinned masses of the south who are supposedly incapable of pulling themselves out of perpetual debt and poverty. My equally intelligent, diligent and educated cousins in Brasil don't live in the same degree of comfort and success that I do. There must be something systemic in a world of such unequal opportunity. If you haven't already, I'd recommend reading /Guns, Germs, and Steel/, by Jared Diamond. http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel-Fates-Societies/dp/0393061310/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1201993440sr=8-1 AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
Chris Burck wrote: 75mph is pretty fast! even if that's the limit where you live, there's also a minimum speed. 50 or 55 in most every state. try it out, you'll save on fuel. Saving fuel is one thing, being suicidal is another. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
Chris Burck wrote: nothing suicidal about it! seriously. i don't mean to sermonize, but isn't conservation and environmental concern at the heart of this list? Well, yes, but there are realities of life. The Howard Frankenstein Bridge is exciting enough at the best of times. When it's rush hour on Idiots On The Road Day, or especially when the street racers are out, it can get a whole lot of the wrong kind of exciting. I'm not willing to compound it by making myself a rolling obstacle. i drive 50-55 on the interstate all the time (yeah, i'm the one), and trust me, it's *way* safer than driving 25mph faster. even with all the crazy people impatiently flying past at 75 or better (usually better), honking their horns and flipping the bird. shrug Each to his own. Personally, I'll keep following the 80% rule. I won't flip you off, I'll just pass you. My hybrid seems to keep getting 50+mpg whether I'm going 55 or 75, and my little diesel pickup gets 28 mpg no matter what I do with it. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting
John Mullan wrote: I think we're deviating from the original subject, but I'd like to add that I wish the Chevy Volt was more than a concept car. Would fill the gap until all electric has suitable range. Topping up at work likely wouldn't be an issue for me. I'll wholeheartedly agree with that! With the range figures advertised for the Volt range wouldn't be an issue for me either, assuming the range at the brochure and the range on the highway are somewhere close to the same. Now I just need a way to charge it from a 15 amp circuit. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hydrogen Car Sighting
John Mullan wrote: Maybe just a research vehicle heading to some testing place? That possibility does exist. There are several vehicle manufacturers that test their vehicles in Florida, so maybe Ford is one of them. AP Alan Petrillo wrote: robert and benita wrote: Alan Petrillo wrote: I saw a hydrogen fuel cell powered Ford Focus in traffic this afternoon. It was on I-275 North going across the Howard Frankland bridge going toward Tampa, Florida. On the back of a flatbed truck. . . . because it didn't have the range to get anywhere on its own? . . . because it couldn't find fuel? : - ) All of the above? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [vvawnet] Across America, Deadly Echoes of Foreign Battles
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I do sympathise, but what I always look for in these stories and so seldom find is this: After Iraq our cities, towns and communities will fill with them. We will live with these powder kegs for a whole generation. Nobody mentions the sheer mayhem and destruction the Iraqis will have to live with for at least a whole generation, or be killed or maimed or have their lives destroyed by, nor the Vietnamese, nor so many others. Mention Iraq war casualties and Americans think of this (from ICH today): Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq: 3,923 This next figure doesn't even occur to them: Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In U.S. War On Iraq: 1,168,058 They also fail to mention all of the non-military people who have been injured or killed over there. The total of the contractors, civilian security personnel, and other non-military people killed or injured isn't know with any real accuracy, but is probably something like twice the number of military personnel. Sad stuff. Indeed. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Off-topic - Any eBay regulars?
Keith Addison wrote: [snip] What I need is a CD of Adobe Creative Suite 2 Premium for Mac, which includes GoLive. [snip] Hey, Keith. Have you found what you need yet? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hydrogen Car Sighting
James McCain Jr wrote: I am not that excited about hydrogen fuel cells. Yes it will be better for the environment, but it is a super inefficient way to fuel a car. Not to mention it is the same type of setup; you buy your overpriced car, you now only have one choice on where to get fuel, you pay for expensive maintenance on an inefficient engine with a zillion moving parts. True. There isn't going to be a way to get the cost down until someone finds a way to build fuel cells without platinum. With platinum at $1760/oz. it's no wonder that fuel cell vehicles are still in the $100k+ range for a cheap one. The better answer to this problem that wouldn't involve an IV like hook up to fuel companies is ELECTRICITY. It can be produced tons of different ways, the car has 7 or less moving parts. No maintenance and no IV to the fuel companies. Maybe. It all depends on how the electricity is generated. If you charge off of the grid then since most of the electricity in the US is made by burning coal then you are effectively driving a coal powered car. Even so, in terms of dollars per mile BEV's are hard to beat. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Hydrogen Car Sighting
I saw a hydrogen fuel cell powered Ford Focus in traffic this afternoon. It was on I-275 North going across the Howard Frankland bridge going toward Tampa, Florida. On the back of a flatbed truck. :-D AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hydrogen Car Sighting
robert and benita wrote: Alan Petrillo wrote: I saw a hydrogen fuel cell powered Ford Focus in traffic this afternoon. It was on I-275 North going across the Howard Frankland bridge going toward Tampa, Florida. On the back of a flatbed truck. . . . because it didn't have the range to get anywhere on its own? . . . because it couldn't find fuel? : - ) All of the above? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Zeolite on eBay
Thomas Kelly wrote: [snip] I would be hesitant to purchase the zeolite described especially with the as is label attached. It can be purchased for about the same price (or less) through reputable suppliers who guarantee their products. Thanks for the tip. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Zeolite on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Molsiv-Zeolite-4A-Molecular-Sieve-Adsorbant-Powder-50Lb_W0QQitemZ110140871118QQihZ001QQcategoryZ26420QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/Molsiv-Zeolite-4A-Molecular-Sieve-Adsorbant-Powder-50Lb_W0QQitemZ110140871115QQihZ001QQcategoryZ26415QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem For those interested in drying their ethanol. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sunshine to Petrol
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Uh-huh Allan However many people it might be, many of them would probably say as you do, No problem, we can do both things at the same time, plenty of brains to go round and so on. But I doubt it'd be more than just lip service, they don't really see it that way, I can't speak for all of them, but the ones I personally know _do_ see it that way. The way they, and I, see it, it's best for each person to work where his passion is. If it's your passion to go to the moon, Mars, and beyond, then work on it. If it's your passion to teach people in the third world to lift themselves out of poverty then work on it. Let each person work where his passion, education, and calling lead him. _That_ is why I say there are brains enough to go around. ...and if there is a Mars trip it will be more money and resources thrown away, the real problems won't be solved nor even confronted, at least not by them. Perhaps not by them specifically, but certainly by other people of equal intelligence and passion. I wonder if any of those problems were mentioned at the SF confab you went to. They should have been, they're not absent from the literature. Yes they were. The Heinlein Centennial was a celebration of the life and works of Robert A. Heinlein on what would have been his 100th birthday. One of the ideas that RAH was a big supporter of is Pay It Forward. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_it_forward Heinlein himself wrote that it is not simply ability, but the responsibility of fortunate people to help less fortunate people. I disagree, Keith. I don't think it has to be an either-or thing or a first-then-later thing. I think both can be done at the same time. In fact I think both _must_ be done at the same time. Any plans for promoting that idea among the 400 SF PhDs or the quite a lot of us who're bent on going to Mars? Or is that it, just as long as somebody says so? A number of them are actively working on both ends of the equation. Peter Diamandis among them. http://www.xprize.org/x-prizes/future-x-prizes ... ï ONE-FIFTH are undernourished I understand that, and I'm not saying it isn't a problem. It is. You didn't say it's not a problem and you didn't say it is, I doubt it entered your thinking on going to Mars, did it? Specifically on the subject of Mars, no. I was thinking about going to Mars. But I am not one-dimensional. There are other parts of my mind devoted to helping the less fortunate lift themselves out of poverty. Things like microloans: http://www.kiva.org/ Currently the future of man and space isn't exploration, it's exploitation and militarisation, and there's probably not much chance that will change any time soon. Perhaps. IMHO, there can be no exploitation without prior exploration. The real trick is to make exploration of the Moon, Mars, and Beyond self supporting, so that it doesn't have to keep sucking money out of the world economy at all, and preferably so that it adds money to the world economy. When it comes to the militarization of space, it's been militarized for decades, the real question is who holds the high ground? I'd rather not cede the high ground to someone I don't like. Please don't think I'm being hidebound or whatever about this. Never mind whose is bigger, but I doubt you've read more science fiction than I have, Indeed. I am interested to know what you like to read. Perhaps I can read some of it so I can understand you better. ...and published it too. You've published SF? Now _that_ I'd definitely be interested in reading! I've found you can get a very interesting insight into how a person's mind works by the way they write _fiction_ better than just about any other way. There's more to it than the clarke-ian view, that's just the same tired old 1950s suburban Reader's Digest ... /Astounding!/, actually. It's now known as /Analog/, and I'm a subscriber. ...and can-do Popular Science mag utopianism still staggering about like the Undead in a new host body. Not really. It's still alive an well in the science journals. It never died, it just got reduced to a core of true believers. Unless you still think technological might is Progress, but the myth of Progress was debunked more than 30 years ago, and the failure of the whole Modernism project acknowledged. (And then came neo-liberal economics... and just look what can-do did.) Ergh. The Reagan years. And we have some of this election cycle's candidates who crow about being Ronald Reagan Republicans. Yeah. Right. That's _all_ we need. No thank you. Unfortunately, the Democrats aren't offering much better. You can find the sources for the stats at our website. It needs some updating, it's worse than that now, lots worse in some cases, though the data is only a few years old. http://journeytoforever.org/community2.html Community development - poverty and hunger: Journey to
Re: [Biofuel] Sunshine to Petrol
Chris Burck wrote: oops, you're right, i didn't represent that entirely accurately. thanks for pointing that out. my web correspondence is all via phone these days, and w/o a proper keyboard my thoughts sometimes get unintentionally compressed. I hate it when that happens. :-) but in effect, charging an ev would be direct use of the solar as compared to using that same power, to synthesize a fuel with which to power an ic engine. i'd wager that to cover a given distance, the energy you'd need to charge your batteries wouldn't get you past the first couple reaction stages in making the synthetic fuel . also, the inefficiencies of ev's are pretty darn minor. compare ~90% for ev locomotion vs. ~30% for combustion engine. direct comparison of battery to liquid fuel is not valid because elimination of the ic aparatus allows a much larger volume of battery than of liquid fuel. Perhaps. The renewable fuel + ICE vs. Battery Electric Vehicle argument is well established in this forum, and I don't want to recapitulate it in this thread. that said, i definitely would characterize the energy density gap as narrowing rapidly. It is narrowing, certainly, but I suppose how rapidly it is happening depends on one's perspective. the heinlein commemorative sounds like it might have been interesting. kind of ironic that you'd bring it up in the context of this discussion, since i don't think he could have been further from the clarke-ian. he was one of the most humanistic of his generation. This is true. I suppose my view would be more heinleinian than clarkeian. The result is the same. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The Alcohol Cure
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGQ2OTA5ZGM1Y2Y2NGE1OTVlYzA3MDNlZGFkYTk0OGM= AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sunshine to Petrol
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Alan and all Hello, Keith. but, supposing it were the best approach available, that still only matters to those who share your clarke-ian view of the importance of stepping beyond the cradle. Granted, but I suspect you'll find there are a lot of us. Notably, Peter Diamandis, who's stated goal is to get there before NASA, and do it with private funds. How many of us is a lot? Just off the top of my head I couldn't tell you. I know my perception of it is skewed because of my involvement with the science fiction community, which is a hotbed of the Clarkian view. This past July I went to the Robert A. Heinlein Centennial, and I was in the room with at least 400 of them. That was the highest concentration of PHD's I've ever been in, and I'm not ashamed to say I was the dimbulb in the room. Maybe it's our noble destiny to go to Mars. But maybe we should get our house in order first before we go travelling. Can't we do both at the same time? Are there not brains enough to go around for that? This, in a world of plenty: Among the 4.4 billion people who live in developing countries: • THREE-FIFTHS have no access to basic sanitation • Almost ONE-THIRD are without safe drinking water • ONE-QUARTER lack adequate housing • ONE-FIFTH live beyond reach of modern health services • ONE-FIFTH of the children do not get as far as grade five in school • ONE-FIFTH are undernourished I understand that, and I'm not saying it isn't a problem. It is. The reason the poor are so poor is that the rich are so rich, and they're so good at looking the other way. Granted. Basic education for all would cost $6 BILLION a year: I'm not sure of that figure, Keith. We spend half a billion dollars on education here in the state of Florida, USA alone. • $8 BILLION is spent annually for cosmetics in the United States alone. I'm actually kind of surprised it's that low. Installation of water and sanitation for all would cost $9 BILLION plus some annual costs: • $11 BILLION is spent annually on ice cream in Europe. Now _there's_ a worthwhile expenditure if ever I saw one! ;-) Reproductive health services for all women would cost $12 BILLION a year: • $12 BILLION a year is spent on perfumes in Europe and the United States. Basic health care and nutrition would cost $13 BILLION: • $17 BILLION a year is spent on pet food in Europe and the United States; • $35 BILLION is spent on business entertainment in Japan; Again, I'm surprised it's that low. • $50 BILLION on cigarettes in Europe; • $105 BILLION on alcoholic drinks in Europe; • $400 BILLION on narcotic drugs around the world; and One of the ideas that H. Beam Piper, among others, have postulated is that no matter where in the universe mankind goes four crops will follow him: Wheat, rice, coffee, and tobacco. I suppose you could add tea, marijuana and opium to that list, and probably coca as well. • $780 BILLION on the world's militaries. Now _there's_ a waste! And it's mostly sheer waste. We all know deep in our hearts, or even not so deep, that increased consumption doesn't make us happy and fulfilled as promised, it leaves us unhappy and dissatisfied, as intended. And sod the victims. Indeed. As long as this situation prevails we have no noble destiny ahead of us. Until it's resolved we have no nobility, we're a disgrace, and our only destiny is sore travail. I disagree, Keith. I don't think it has to be an either-or thing or a first-then-later thing. I think both can be done at the same time. In fact I think both _must_ be done at the same time. Sooner or later we will go to Mars. I expect we'll do it within the next half century. The major question is what language the astronauts will be speaking, English, Russian, or Mandarin? How much did you say it'll cost to go to Mars? The most efficient plan is Robert Zubrin's Mars Semi-Direct mission, which would take an estimated 45 billion in 2005 dollars, spread over about ten years. It's cheap enough that Micro$oft could finance it tomorrow without breaking the bank, if they were sufficiently motivated to do so. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sunshine to Petrol
Thomas Kelly wrote: I don't know if the process solves one problem only to cause others, as is so often the case, but I would like for Sandia Laboratories (a subsidary of Lockheed and funded, in part, by the US Dept of Energy) to spend more of its budget on Energy Research (including efficiency and alternate energy) (7%) and less on Defense (47%). I'll agree with that. Unfortunately, they have to go where the money is, and right now, thanks to The Shrub, the money is in Defense. Thanks for the post . something to keep an eye on. Indeed. I'll continue to keep a hopeful eye on it. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sunshine to Petrol
Chris Burck wrote: that a technical challenge might be interesting does not justify pursuing it. Why not? Much of the technology we have today came about simply because someone decided to pursue a technical challenge, and it wound up turning into a product. this project is being funded for no reason other than to get yet more taxpayer dollars to a gigantic corporation whose primary product is death, so that it can explore a method which, if marketed correctly, might prop up an infrastructure based on a failed paradigm. shrug You can look at it that way if you want to. Yes, Lockheed is a major player in the MIC. So what? If they can produce a product that doesn't involve death, and hopefully reduces death, then more power to them. If it generates profit for them then so much the better. It means they're more likely to keep doing it. and it's a woefully inefficient approach. direct use of the solar would be vastly more efficient and effective--even for transport, How do you figure? with the energy-density gap between batteries and liquid fuels shrinking rapidly. It may be shrinking, but I don't think you could call it anything like rapidly. Even so, now you're not talking about direct use of Solar, you're talking about using solar PV to charge batteries for a battery electric vehicle, which involves inefficiencies of its own. As it stands now, and for the forseeable future, when it comes to kilowatts per kilogram nothing comes close to liquid fuels. mars only addresses the initial stage of breaking down the co2. Well, if you read all of the article, you'd see that Sandia is also talking about using the process to form a hydrocarbon fuel such as methane, which in liquid form, makes good rocket fuel. One of the other products of the process is oxygen, which is both atmosphere, and the best oxidizer for rocket fuel. you can't use that argument to justify the rest of the experiment. I believe I just did. in fact, even that small part can't be justified by invoking space, since a variety of co2 scrubbing technologies already exist that wouldn't require lifting a nuclear reactor into orbit. But those processes don't turn it into fuel. The energy to do that has to come from somewhere. The current plan is either an RTG, or a Rickover. The energy for the process could come from a sufficiently well developed solar system as well. but, supposing it were the best approach available, that still only matters to those who share your clarke-ian view of the importance of stepping beyond the cradle. Granted, but I suspect you'll find there are a lot of us. Notably, Peter Diamandis, who's stated goal is to get there before NASA, and do it with private funds. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sunshine to Petrol
Chris Burck wrote: omg, what a load of crap. strange, all the critics who condemn bio-d and ethanol for allegedly low or negative net energy, where are their voices now? Well, actually, since the whole process is intended to be solar powered, energy negativity isn't as important. and to think my tax dollars are being wasted on this. . . Well, it's only a relatively small project, and I don't think it's a waste at all. I agree that biological methods are better, and probably more efficient, but all methods of fuel production, however improbable they may seem at first, must be explored. If nothing else this may lead to a better understanding of how biological systems do it. But this process is more important than just getting a second use out of the carbon in coal. This may be an important device in helping mankind step out of the cradle. Such a device may be instrumental to our survival when we go to Mars. We'll have two major stumbling blocks on Mars: Making air, and making fuel. The current plan involves boosting either the largest RTG ever built up there, or a Rickover class nuclear reactor, and using this nuclear power source to drive air and fuel plants. A device similar to Sandia's CR5 could do it with solar energy instead, albeit with a reflector about 4 times the size of the one on Earth. It would probably be lighter and easier to boost as well. Improbable? Perhaps. A waste of money? Definitely not. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Sunshine to Petrol
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071208150135.htm Not bio, but I thought it appropriate. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Global potential for biodiesel is enormous
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071022-report-evaluates-biodiesel-potential.html Global potential for biodiesel is enormous By John Timmer | Published: October 22, 2007 - 10:02PM CT One of the renewable energy sources that's attracted a lot of attention is biodiesel, obtained by converting the fats and oils in agricultural products into a burnable diesel fuel. At the moment, a lot of biodiesel production occurs in small-scale pilot programs, but a report completed by the University of Wisconsin's Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment (SAGE) indicates its global potential is enormous: over 400 billion liters annually, well more than double the amount of diesel the US burns every year. The report also provides a detailed look into what may be more significant questions: can this potential be realized and, if so, how? The report lays out a compelling rationale for a focus on biodiesel. The fuel can be refined from existing sources of lipids using a process that operates at normal atmospheric pressures and temperatures, and can work across a range of scales from local to industrial. Production works with plants that grow on marginal lands, and research is underway to develop lipid sources from algae that live in salt water. The report, however, focuses on existing fuel crops, primarily soybeans and palm oil. Even here, biodiesel has some significant advantages over other alternative fuels, including the ability to work in existing engines and the infrastructure of the petroleum economy. The efficiency of converting existing crops to biodiesel dwarfs that of some of the alternatives; the report claims that soybean-biodiesel produces a 93 percent energy gain vs. 25 percent for corn-ethanol. To delve into biodiesel economics, the authors obtained volume and pricing information on large volume commodity trading of crops and fats from the United Nations Statistics Division. Operating under the assumption that any volume exported was in excesses of domestic needs for the material as food, they calculated the cost of refining it to biofuels, and compared that with European market prices, which are roughly $0.88 per liter. Black and blue are good: countries with the best potential for economic biofuels Credit: University of Wisconsin, Madison Their calculations suggest that the potential biodiesel production globally amounts to 51 billion liters annually, an increase of over twenty-fold compared to current levels. The top-five potential producers, Malaysia, Indonesia, Argentina, the United States, and Brazil, account for over 80 percent of that total, suggesting the possibility of major economies of scale in these nations. Perhaps more significantly, over 47 billion gallons of that could be solid profitably at current European market prices. The one risk to developing this market, however, would be a sudden drop in oil prices—if they were to fall by more than half, the vast majority of biodiesel production would become unprofitable. The study also examined the potential of biodiesel in developing economies, where it could have a significant impact on their course of development. Unfortunately, many of these countries suffer from instability, corruption, and extensive debt, factors that would inhibit outside investment in biodiesel infrastructure. When all of these factors are considered, the authors identify five countries—Malaysia, Thailand, Columbia, Uruguay, and Ghana—as having the best potential for development. Malaysia in particular has an impressive biodiesel capacity; were it to join the European Climate Exchange, full biodiesel production would produce carbon offsets that, under this cap-and-trade system, would be worth $58 million before it was even used as fuel. The report also considers the potential for a focus on biodiesel production to increase the efficiency of the underlying agriculture. Using figures that are a bit less than two-thirds of the ideal yields for a crop, they estimate biodiesel production could improve the underlying agricultural efficiency enough to raise production to 417 billion liters, even after subtracting nearly 200 billion liters for increased food use. Malaysia and Indonesia account for 75 percent of this increase, so the authors suggest that some of the improved efficiency might instead go towards reducing problems with deforestation in those nations. The report has to perform a number of estimates to produce its figures, so there is certainly a lot of potential for these numbers to not survive the reality of implementation. Still, the clear advantages of biodiesel, along with its largely untapped potential, suggest that it might make a big difference as we transition away from nonrenewable fuels. And if development in other areas goes well, the infrastructure may be in place by the time that lipid-rich saltwater algae are. ___ Biofuel
[Biofuel] On The Brink Of Something Big
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/08/Opinion/On_the_brink_of_somet.shtml Good article on Nigera, and Nigerian oil money by Bill Duryea of the St. Petersburg (FL) Times. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Coast To Coast Corn
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/08/Opinion/Coast_to_coast_corn.shtml Good article, by Jim Verhulst of the St. Petersburg (FL) Times, on corn and ethanol. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Air-freighted food may lose organic label
Keith Addison wrote: http://environment.guardian.co.uk/food/story/0,,1999460,00.html | Food | Guardian Unlimited Environment Air-freighted food may lose organic label Mark Oliver and agencies Friday January 26, 2007 Guardian Unlimited [snip] Oh great! MORE politics involved in the Organic label. This is a bad idea. While I agree that the lower the transportation miles on the food the better, basing the organic label on that factor is taking the politics of it to a ridiculous degree. Whether or not the food is organic should be based on HOW IT IS GROWN, not how it is shipped! Now, as a disclaimer, I will say I am not a disinterested party in this, because I work for an airline that gets a large bit of its revenue from shipping freight, including organic food. But even if I take a step back from my position as an airline employee I still think basing the organic label on the shipping method is more politics than science. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Origin of the 42-Year Stonewall of Vitamin C
D. Mindock wrote: I think that this would make a pretty good docudrama. Peace, D. Mindock = The Origin of the 42-Year Stonewall of Vitamin C Of course it should be modulated by the fact that most cases of polio were no worse than a bad case of influenza, and only about 15% of cases developed full blown Polio-Myelitis. I'm not so sure about the stonewall either, given that Vitamin C is probably the most supplemented vitamin in the world. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Motorcycle
Joe Street wrote: No doubt the crotch rocket crowd will be referring to this one as the 'Neanderthal' LOL chuckle No doubt. Let them. Neanderthals did one thing very well: Survive. And they'd better keep an eye on their rear view, because the Neander will give a lot of them a pretty serious run for the money. Now if they can get the price out of the stratosphere and down where regular people can afford it I'll buy one. Same with that diesel Kawasaki scrambler bike. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Two articles on the NAFTA super highway
robert and benita rabello wrote: Joe Street wrote: I read this again and realized there is an unwritten assumption in your statement. That is that one world government is bad. But I would object that one world government might be exactly what this world needs.so long as it is not controlled by capitalists that is. We need a benevolent king. I have someone in mind . . . But if he's any good then he doesn't want the job. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown
Joe Street wrote: I think you would be better to buy solar panels and inverters than gold and silver but that's just my opinion. Better yet, buy solar panels and inverters, _and_ gold and silver. AP Joe D. Mindock wrote: Hi Kirk, I started buying gold and silver. Also trying to get rid of debt. I think I better start selling my IRA stock funds while they are up and pay off the debt. I think we're in for a rough ride. We have been Bush whacked. Peace, D. Mindock ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Presenter needed for a talk in N Florida
I have been invited to talk for an hour at a farm show in North Florida on November 4th, and I don't feel up to the task. Especially not on this short notice. Is there anyone who would feel up to the task of presenting a talk on biodiesel on this short notice? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Isuzu Pickup
JAMES PHELPS wrote: Can any one on the list tell me what I need to do to convert my newest vehicle to B-100. Its an 88 Isuzu pickup and has less than 100k miles. As other people have said, keep an eye on the rubber fuel lines, or just be proactive and replace them with Viton. Also, keep an eye on the injection pump. I've recently had to replace the one in my 1985 S-10 Diesel, which used the same drive train as the P'up. First the pressure regulator started to leak, but my mechanic was able to fix that without removing the pump from the engine. (Even though he's a little guy I swear he has a second elbow in the middle of his forearm.) Last year the seals on the pump itself started to leak, and I had to break down and have it replaced. ($800!) Since that time it has been running like a top. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bad News
robert and benita rabello wrote: [snip] A chicken for a pet? My neighbors ALREADY think I'm weird . . . You _are_ weird. That's why we get along so well! ;-) AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] RFID tag removal/destruction
Kirk McLoren wrote: RFID costs $3 in quantity. They are not used to tag paper money. The metalized strip in money has precise dimensions and is resonant at a predetermined frequency. A source at that frequency is placed in proximity and if resonance occurs it loads the source and the money passes automated inspection. It has no serial number or in fact information of any kind. A little paranoia evidently goes a long way. There is a plethora of genuine concerns and the metalized strip in money is not among them. The fear re control will manifest as a cashless society not cash with an anti counterfeiting device incorporated. Once cashless there is no anonymity. An exchange from Roger Zelazny's novel /My Name Is Legion/ comes to mind. Do you accept cash? Of course not. What kind of place do you think this is? That bit about Legal tinder for all debts public and private is meaning less and less. :-( AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Have You Hugged Your Hummer Today?
The good folks at Reason.org are at it yet again. :-( http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060719.shtml AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel and the Petroleum Industry
Thomas Kelly wrote: [snip] He was clearly advocating 2%, 5% blends. Why? Is it simply because the auto manufacturers will void warrantees at higher blends? If so, why not just say so. Not the auto manufacturers. Bosch, the largest manufacturer of diesel injection equipment. Bosch is for some reason very biodiesel _un_friendly. Unless things have changed with them while I wasn't looking. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists
D. Mindock wrote: *By Allowing White Racists in the Military, We're Training Domestic Terrorists* [snip] The U.S. government can't sit around, waiting for the next Timothy McVeigh to reveal himself. By identifying and discharging known extremists from the military, we can stop future domestic terrorists in their tracks. Taxpayer dollars should not pay for White Supremacy Boot Camp. The military is supposed to protect all of America, not train those who plan to wreak havoc on its citizens. /Judge Greg Mathis is national vice president of Rainbow PUSH and a national board member of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference./ I disagree. By kicking them out of the military we're more likely to, in their minds, justify their antigovernment mindset, and hasten rather than delay their attacks on the United States. Just kicking them out of the military will _not_ stop them in their tracks. A better idea would be to do enough of a background check to keep them out in the first place. Keep in mind also, that while they're in the military it's easier, a LOT easier to keep an eye on them. A yet better idea would be to stop the costly international adventures that require high numbers of new recruits. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ants
Jason Katie wrote: i noticed that there are large numbers of ants in my wife's herb planter, and i have also noticed a /major/ decrease in bug eaten leaves. do some species of ants hunt these pest bugs? or is it just because of the aging cycles of these pest bugs caused them to move on? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are many species of ants that form symbiotic relationships with certain plants. When they do this they will defend their symbiants with great ferocity against all insect pests. I've had colonies of black ants adopt my mango trees, and since then I haven't had any pest problems with them. Except for squirrels and neighborhood kids, that is. Now if I can just get some ants to adopt my rose bushes... AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Pimento rears his ugly head again. :-(
http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/38540/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Mythbusters screw up.
On Mythbusters episode 53 http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/episode/episode.html?clik=fanmain_leftnav the Mythbusters tackled The Great Gas Conspiracy. One of the things they covered was vegetable oil in diesels. They blew it. They ran a Mercedes on WVO, and several times made the point that this was an unmodified diesel engine, and anyone could just pour this stuff in their tank. They made that unmodified point several times. I expect we're going to see a rash of ruined injection pumps thanks to this. Maybe if they receive an avalanche of email they'll revisit the vegetable oil diesel subject before their screwup costs a lot of people a lot of money. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Biofuels Movement Is A Scam That Needs To Be Stopped
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/04/08/Opinion/Biofuels_movement_is_.shtml Someone please educate this idiot. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Brutal Christ of the Armageddonites - Religious fanaticism in American foreign policy
Evergreen Solutions wrote: Heh. In other news, the super nice fan club from www.godhatesfags.com are coming to our town soon...because apparently we're all fags who are going to burn in hell, regardless of our sexual orientation. They'll hold up signs on school bus routes and chant, protesting funerals to tell us that God killed that person because he hates our fag lifestyle. Yes, I said protesting funerals. Class act, seriously. They protested at the funeral of a soldier here in the Tampa Bay area a couple of years ago, and got pilloried in the press. Check out their site, it'll make you puke. I checked out their site a couple of years ago, and lost a perfectly good keyboard... Only he's not a new religous fanatic. He started the church in 1955, but thanks to to the power of the internet, he's gotten much stronger in the last 5 years. Funny how that has happened. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Party Hacks - The fix is in for 2008
Keith Addison wrote: http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12155.htm Party Hacks The fix is in for 2008. By Chris Floyd I still remember in 2004 the voting machine I used forced me to select GWB, and then deselect him before it would let me select any other candidate. I worked with the damned things as a pollworker for 3 elections. I don't trust them as far as I can throw the lot of them. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Factory Farms Blamed for Spread of Bird Flu
Keith Addison wrote: Backyard or free-range poultry are not fuelling the current wave of bird flu outbreaks stalking large parts of the world. The deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu is essentially a problem of industrial poultry practices. http://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=194 GRAIN | Briefings | 2006 | The poultry industry's central role in the bird flu crisis [snip] What I think is funny is that one of the recommended things to prevent the spread of Bird Flu is _more_ enclosed factory farms! Duh! AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Cooking oil isn't just for diesels anymore.
I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. I'm still not sure I believe it, frankly. But if it's a web stunt, then at least it's a _good_ web stunt! http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/09/strip_out_the_fans/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol distillation
Jonathan Schearer wrote: I have a question for the group. Would a water distiller like the kind found at www.waterdistiller.com http://www.waterdistiller.com be similar to an alcohol still? Usually an alcohol still has a column and uses water as the coolant for the condenser. These water distillers use a coil that is air cooled. It's been done. http://www.brewhaus.com/EasyStill.htm As far as their claim of 90% distillation on 2 passes, well, I'll believe that when I see it. Brewhaus says their only modifications are elimination of the chlorine release valve, and installation of a lower power heating element. What they're describing is just the lower power version of the standard water distiller. I have a feeling they didn't even change the thermal cutout to a lower temperature version. They talk it up like there are all kinds of mods to it, but it looks like a standard water distiller to me. My feeling is to give it a try and see what happens. Operate it -=*OUTDOORS*=-, have a fire extinguisher handy, do the maths so you know what to expect, and give it a shot. If it doesn't work then you'll only be out the ~$129 for the distiller, and if it doesn't burn up then you'll have a nice little water distiller. I have one of these little distillers, and I use it every day for distilling water. It's the only way I can make the lousy, chloramine laden St. Petersburg tap water fit to drink. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
I caught a piece of something on the news about the US Guvmint wanting to tax alternate fuel vehicles so they can pay their fair share of highway maintenance costs. Anyone know anything about this? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Ethanol in St. Petersburg Times (FL, USA)
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/10/17/Worldandnation/Ethanol__Is_it_the_an.shtml AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Disappearing Antiwar Protests
Scott Brown wrote: Just another point of view. It may be that Bush is in the hands of the media and the people who control the media rather than they are in his control. Does puppet on string seem applicable ??? Why not? After all, it is they who put him in power. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sucker's Bets for the New Century
But it was accurate in another way, too, one full of portent for the future. A decade ago, environmental researcher Norman Myers began trying to add up the number of humans at risk of losing their homes from global warming. He looked at all the obvious places -- coastal China, India, Bangladesh, the tiny island states of the Pacific and Indian oceans, the Nile delta, Mozambique, on and on -- and predicted that by 2050 it was entirely possible that 150 million people could be environmental refugees, forced from their homes by rising waters. That's more than the number of political refugees sent scurrying by the bloody century we've just endured. There's even a term for these people. They're called fourth worlders. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] When Science Gets Censored
Keith Addison wrote: [snip] Copyright 2005 American Chemical Society I find it interesting that this comes from the American Chemical Society, when they are one of the organizations that seems to be intentionally generating uncertainty on this issue. Witness the Atrazine fight. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MENTOR NEEDED IN ALABAMA
virgil sentel wrote: I'm a newbie here and I live in Ozark, Al. (near Dothan). When I was in the Army I went to AIT at Fort Rucker, so I know where you are. He can get me a gal to start for 25.00 is this agood price? Hell no! Tell him to go find another sucker! Just about any racing shop should be able to sell you methanol for around $5/gal, but you'll have to provide your own container. Which, usually, the racing shop can sell you. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] B100 and jet fuel
Mike Weaver wrote: The short answer is no. Yes is just a little longer than no. Let me know if you have any other language questions. I do have three degrees in English and am always glad to help. chuckle Sir, I will take English lessons from you anytime. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] New Orleans, New Orleans, New Orleans!
Can we have a little perspective here, please? With all of the media attention so tightly focused on New Orleans people have totally lost sight of the big picture. New Orleans is only one tiny spot in a VERY large disaster area, and many areas are worse off than New Orleans. New Orleans is, what, about 50 square miles, perhaps 100? This is out of a disaster area covering an estimated 90,000 square miles! To put that figure into perspective, it's larger than the entire United Kingdom. This is a disaster area that covers not only New Orleans, but also most of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, western Florida, south Florida, western Georgia and western Tennessee. The headlines read New Orleans Spared, which it largely was until the levees broke. Compared to areas just a little bit east, New Orleans was indeed spared the brunt of the storm. That fell largely on Mississippi and Alabama. While New Orleans is dealing with flooding from broken levees, there are areas of Gulfport and Pascagoula that have been completely washed off of the map. If the levees had held then this storm would have been, to put it into the words of a New Orlean, just another hurricane. In the immediate aftermath of the storm 60% of the state of Mississippi was without electricity. 80% was without phones. A large part of the problem for relief agencies getting into the area was that many, perhaps hundreds, of bridges were damaged or washed out by the storm. Add to this other problems like trees and debris in the roads and it made the going slow indeed. The storm carried hurricane force winds over a hundred miles inland, and tropical storm force winds all the way into Tennessee. It was a slow moving storm, so an area of coastline 150 miles wide was lashed by hurricane force winds for a solid 14 hours, while getting drenched by 12 inches of rain. The biggest killer from hurricanes is not the wind or the storm surge, but flooding from torrential rains, which Katrina produced in abundance in a swath that went all the way up into the northeast. Katrina is not simply the storm that ate New Orleans, but is the most costly natural disaster to ever hit the United States. So, to put it into television parlance, can we please zoom out and take a look at the wide shot? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BioDiesel Processor
Mike Weaver wrote: FuelMeister - Voldemort lives... And we haven't found all of his horcruxes yet. Obviously. AP Keith, Thank you, Yes I received that email after I sent mine. Juan G. From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BioDiesel Processor Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 04:01:39 +0900 Hello Juan I would appreciate some help. I am new to the list and I read a few days ago on one of the threads that metal tanks should be used to make a biodiesel processor. There are 2 processors I saw on the web 1 at Freedom Fuel America the other at BioDiesel gear. Both are polyethylene ( i am sure most on the list have seen them) are these any good? Also is there any other place web or otherwise where I could find biodiesel processors in kits or assembled. Thank you for help. Juan G. Huh, second time in 10 minutes... Re Freedom Fuel America - the odious FuelMeister rears its ugly head once again! http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg35652.html Or: http://snipurl.com/h9ou Re: [biofuel] Best Processer You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallons of high-quality biodiesel for that price. The FuelMeister is overpriced junk that is not capable of making quality biodiesel. The instructions that come with it are just as useless. BiodieselGear? Does anybody buy those things? They got some derisive comments when they launched. What's the point anyway? Build your own, a lot cheaper and a lot better, and anybody can do it: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html Biodiesel processors Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] B100 and jet fuel
Greg and April wrote: The short answer is no. The short answer is _yes_. Baylor University did some testing with B20 in their Beech King Air 90, and found that it did just fine. The report was available at the biodiesel.org website for a while, but I can't find it just now. A Google search of the site produced this: http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19981001_gen-106.pdf Purdue University also did some testing on aviation fuel, and the report is available here: http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/19950601_gen-144.pdf Keep in mind, turbines are, almost by definition, multifuel engines. As long as it doesn't overheat their burn units turbines don't care what they're running on. You should see the list of alternate fuels for the OH-58 scout helicopters I flew in the Army! The long answer is, BioDiesel does not have to BTU's of jet fuel No, it doesn't have the specific heat of jet fuel, but it's close enough that it makes little difference operationally. ( jet fuel is a highly refined cozen to jet fuel with allot of BTU's per gal ), Did you by any chance mean kerosene? Jet-A is high grade kerosene. Keep in mind, kerosene comes in many flavors, and jet fuel is only one of them. nor does it have the ability to take the low temperatures that jet fuel would encounter at altitude. This could be taken care of with a properly effective antigel agent. These things are workable, but, then you have to carry more fuel, and less cargo, and heated fuel tanks and fuel lines.This adds weight and costs to every aircraft, that is unacceptable. Many aircraft already have fuel heaters in their fuel lines to prevent fuel icing. The real problem is to prevent the fuel gelling in the tanks. Some heat already gets into the fuel tanks in many airliners because they use the fuel tanks as a heat sink for the airconditioning systems. I think only a good antigel agent would solve this completely, though. Jet travel is also one of the least efficient forms of transportation there is. That depends on how you look at it. If you consider it in terms of passenger seat miles per gallon then it comes out around 24mpg, IIRC, which beats most SUV's. I did have a link to an article which went into this much more in depth, but I have lost it. Don't forget, in the airline industry fuel efficiency means profits. Using biodiesel would only make it more inefficient. Maybe. But at least it would be using less petroleum. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft
Mike Weaver wrote: You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486. I think you misspelled 386. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Question on Chevy S10´s
Ray J wrote: 2000 s-10 had a diesel engine in them??? Perhaps non-US models. I know it is possible to get a Ford Ranger with a diesel engine, but not in the US. If I find one on the grey market and I can afford it then I'll buy it. There are all kinds of vehicles all over the world available with diesel engines that are not in the US. They had a 2.2l 4 cylinder 2.8l 6 cylinder and a 4.3l gas engine in them... i think u can run E85 hi ethanol gass in them but as far as i no chevy has not made a diesel s10 for many years .. they offered a 2.2l diesel in 1983-1986.. I have a 1985. Great little truck, but woefully underpowered. The engine is the same Isuzu C223 as in the diesel P'up of the same year. Mine is currently in the shop getting its injection pump rebuilt. It's just shy of 100,000 miles and the injection pump started to leak. I'm not sure it's biofuel related, but I have been running it on B100 for the past year or so. Hopefully the seals will be updated to compounds that will stand up to B100. A vegoil conversion is in the offing as soon as I can figure out the engineering to put in a second tank that will not eat up my bed space. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Who was running WVO/gasoline mix in a Ford truck
I recall some time ago there was a man on the list who was running an unmodified Ford diesel truck on a mixture of WVO and gasoline. If he's still here, would he please post an update on how his truck is doing? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 1995 Chevrolet 6.5 litre Turbo-Diesel - Opinions
I looked at one for sale but found a lot of blowby in the crankcase (compression loss around cylinder walls resulting in pressure in the crankcase) The dealer had removed the tube from the PCV valve and there was oily smoke blowing out. I couldnt get in my car fast enough! You may have gotten into your car too fast. There are a lot of these engines that have a type of vacuum pump that exhausts through the crank case. If this is the case then this will give the illusion of a HUGE amount of blowby. Check and see if it has a diaphram type vacuum pump, or if it has one of the rotary type pumps mounted on the back of the alternator. If it has the type on the alternator then it is almost certainly exhausting into the crank case. Typically these units have an oil line running to them from the same supply that feeds the turbocharger, and they return it together with the vacuum exhaust through a single tube into the crank case. These engines are real workhorses, and I was told about a few bugs. One is a sensor mounted on the injector pump is prone to failure due to the high heat.A relocation kit is available. Also, there is a cooling system design flaw that has certain parts of the engine overheating. A retrokit is available that includes 2 thermostats and a newer designed water pump, usually sold on ebay. I cant say about running them on biodiesel, but I also would like to know, as I plan on a conversion as soon as I buy a truck Best thing to do is check and see if these mods have already been done. As likely as not they have. Also, check to see if there is coolant in the oil. If there is then the engine is probably suffering from cavitation, and if this is the case then RUN! AP - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 6:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] 1995 Chevrolet 6.5 litre Turbo-Diesel - Opinions I have a line on a diesel pickup truck, which I naturally want to run on biodiesel. I have a few things to look at by way of research tomorrow. The archives seem inconclusive on this engine - vaguely in favour (thread including message 9021 and others). I will also be reading at www.thedieselpage.com and at least one other site I have bookmarked. However, for now, does anyone have experience with these engines, especially on biodiesel? Any issues? Success? Thanks in advance. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] it all comes down to this
It is 3:32AM EST in Columbus OH, the polls open in three hours. My team astonished even me last night when we knocked on 535 doors in 5 short hours. we identified nearly 75 more votes last night that we will turn out today. Kennedy won on less than 1 vote in every precinct, we are expecting a minimum of 150 voters in this precinct that are turned out as a result of our efforts. In 17 hours the state of Ohio will have fired George W. Bush. It will have been done on the resolve and spirit of the volunteers who have given up everything to do what is right for our country, and for the world. Those volunteers are powered by the spirits of their loved ones who are only here in their thoughts. We'll see. Don't forget how the president of Diebold corporation, the largest manufacturer of electronic voting machines, promised to deliver Ohio's votes to Bush. Quite an easy thing to do with a machine system that leaves no paper trail. Please be with me, as I need all of the strength that I can get. Keep on keeping on, friend. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Anybody in central Florida making biodiesel?
Hi, Since i have several trucks, and a tractor that run on diesel was looking at whether anyone near me makes biodiesel and seeing how you are making, etc. Thanks, Where in Florida are you? I'm in St. Petersburg. Ward Oil in Tampa has biodiesel, but I forget who their manufacturer is. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Oil Barons Are Happy
Is it a coincidence that there is new explorations going on in the oil industry, or do the high prices have something to do with it ? Canada had, until now, backed away from further exploration claiming it was too expensive. Well, I guess they found some money recently huh? Canada foresees record drilling http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/energy/2874621 Indeed. I find it interesting that The Shrub is telling people here in Florida that there will be no more drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mexico, while the administration would be more than happy to drill holes all over ANWR in Alaska. Could it be that Florida has a LOT more electoral votes than Alaska? Could it be that 17 million people are a lot more difficult to push around than 600,000 people? AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Framing the Issues
Something I've been noticeing as the election approaches: If Americans were actually allowed to UNIFY behind the issues that they agree upon, regardless of how those issues were spun by the two parties, they could actually CHANGE the system in ways that the oligarchy in charge wouldn't like. Have you ever wondered why polls (and elections) are so CLOSE? OK, it's partly gerrymandering to try to balance the parties out in every region -- even more, I'm thinking, it's that issues have been strategically lumped together under the same (opposite) banners, such that neither party actually stands for something that a clear majority wants. Thus, the status quo is preserved.-K Yes, I've noticed this. The Republicans are in bed with the religious right. The Democrats are in bed with the gun control lobby. On many other issues the two sides are so alike that people have taken to calling them the Demicans and the Republicrats. The Democrats try to out republican the Republicans on tax and economic issues. The Republicans try to out democrat the Democrats on social issues. Both sides claim to speak for the common man, when in fact both sides are headed by ivy leaguers who have no idea how the common man thinks. No matter how you slice it there is always some bathwater with the baby. One of the things I get the biggest kick out of is the issue of religion. Bush and Kerry are both crowing about how devout they are, and each is plainly trying to show just how Christian he is. (Note the capital C.) If it weren't such a serious issue it would almost be comical. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] trash pile,
i wass wrong, inertialll equity and centraifuagl forsces are not in balannnce untill 22800 miles, geostationaryy,,,any closer and your trash pile would needdd velociciaty to maintain orbvit, now for the enginering feat ofa the milleania desisgne a conveyor to deliver your tomatooo cans to the top ofhte trash heap, http://www.google.com/search?q=beanstalk+orbit I'm not sure who originally called it a Beanstalk, but the first place I encountered the term was in Robert Heinlein's book Friday. See also: Tether Propulsion, and Space Elevator. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] tanstafl
Languages The list language is English, but if you are a non-native English speaker please don't let that stop you. Many list members write bad English but it doesn't matter, even very bad English is easy to understand. Use the language translation programs on the Web if you like, they're not very good sometimes, but again it doesn't matter. The list is not just for the Western English-speaking males who mostly populate the Internet, it is for everyone, with a special interest in the 3rd World countries of the Global South. One of the advantages of English is that it can be understood when spoken (or written) _badly_. Many other languages are not so fortunate. That applies to you, no? It's obviously not easy for you, thanks for taking the trouble to make the effort. I don't know about anyone else, but I had no trouble reading your message. I think anyone should be able to read it quite easily. Slow reading, but I was able to get through it. A couple of years ago my father had a small stroke. The only lasting effect has been to his handwriting. He's a doctor, so his handwriting was bad enough already, and now it's practically illegible, but I can usually puzzle through it. Kirk McLoren sent me this a while back: Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer waht oredr the ltteers of a wrod are in, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Could you read that? Midori just read it without any difficulty at all, and she's Japanese, not a native-English speaker. She thought it was very funny. So do I. So much for spelling, eh? No need. This is why anagrams can be so interesting. But I should help you with this: TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. And somewhere out there Robert A. Heinlein, peace be upon him, is smiling. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Hurricane
i suspect that lots of Floridians are suddenly paying attention to the scientists who have been saying for a decade that unless the world cuts hydrocarbon emissions (think sign the Kyoto Accords that are being rejected by Bush and Congress) there would be increasingly violent, unusual weather. the US citizens who are 4% of the people on earth generate more than a third of the world's emissions. RossCannon We haven't gotten that far yet. We're still holding our breath, waiting to see what Ivan is going to do. After Charley and Francis, many people have left their houses boarded up until Ivan is over with. There are places still in central Florida, at the crossing point of both Charley and Frances, with standing water 20 feet deep. Most of our rivers are in a 500 year flood. Polk County, where the tracks of Charley and Frances crossed, was particularly hard hit. Now that the east coast and the west coast have been hit it looks like the panhandle is going to take one for the team. If the forecast tracks are accurate then it looks like Ivan is going to hit in the Pensacola/Panama City area. We still have a lot of people without power and a lot of people without homes. Some places, including the places where some of my coworkers live, are not expected to have electricity back on for another six _weeks_. As for the destroyed homes, there are places that expect to take several _years_ to return to normal. Compounding the mess were the two-legged parasites who were price gouging, defrauding, and looting. Before, after, and even _during_ the storms. There was a crime wave _during_ each storm, and part of my preparation was to keep my shotgun loaded and handy. Floridians are going to worry first about cleaning up the mess from these three hurricanes, while keeping a worried eye on the south Atlantic, and then when the worry level goes down, sometime in November, _then_ we'll worry about whether or not to blame global warming. One thing about the whole mess that I got a chuckle out of was buying fuel. Instead of waiting in miles long lines to fill up my tank I just drove over to Ward Oil and filled up on biodiesel. I was in and out in ten minutes. AP ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Bio-D in a wick lamp-safe for use in teh house??
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was hoping someone could settle a disagreement my brother and I are having. In preparation for Hurricane Charley, I broke out the wick lamp and first off started with biodiesel. As Keith says on his website, it is hard to get top travel up the wick, but I was able to soak the wick enough to get it to light and it burned great. Because my brother is afraid of burning it in the house, I switched to kerosene and now he'ss aying teh whole system is contaminated. So I have 2 questions. First, if I burn biodiesel in a wick lamp like this, am I risking CO poisoning or any other noxious fumes? Second, if for some reason it is mixed with kero, does it become more toxic than either chemical alone. Thanks- You aren't risking CO poisoning any more than any other combustion device used inside. Keep the windows open, and you should be alright with that. Other emissions will be lower with BD. What you will find is that the odor of the burning biodiesel indoors will QUICKLY become overpowering. Just after I got started making BD my girlfriend and I tried it in a couple of little wick lamps. We found it was most decidedly NOT conducive to a romantic atmosphere when your whole house smells like a grease fire. For outdoor use, no problem. For indoor use, only if you have absolutely NOTHING else. BTW: How did you weather the storm? I'm in St. Petersburg, and the worst we got was minor flooding in our parking lot. We were holding our collective breath for a couple of days, though. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Nitromethane fuel question
Dave Williams wrote: Alan Petrillo wrote: Nitromethane is an explosive. It can also be used as monopropellant rocket fuel. As one guy put it You can put your cigarette out in it, but if you hit it with a hammer it'll explode. Top fuelers mix it with methanol to dilute it down to their desired power level according to atmospheric conditions. Um, no. It is a monopropellant, but it's not in any way explosive, though it is, of course, quite flammable. [snip] http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/NI/nitromethane.html http://www.bazellracefuels.com/NitroMSDS.htm See UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS. It's required to be labeled as explosive when shipped, and it's one of the many items on the Feds' watchlist as potential explosive precursors. I hold with my previous statement: Nasty stuff, best avoided. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Book: Sunshine To Dollars
Some of what this guys claims in his ad sounds too good to be true. Any comments? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=378item=4211105711rd=1 AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I have clean washed biodiesel now what?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I knew I probably used too much lye, I added some apple cider vineager to the first wash to neutralize any remaining catalyst as in Mike Pelly's recipe. I'm sure it drops out along with the wash water and soaps, but the fuel still has a bit of a vineagary smell to it. If it still smells vinegary then wash it some more. Wash it until the pH of the wash water comes out neutral. If it's too acidic then add some baking soda, just a pinch, to the wash water, and wash it again. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OT: House of Bush, House of Saud book report
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i hope more and more people can act like I am currently putting a turbo diesel engine in a vanagon any key thoughts on this beofre I start exploring processing my own bio diesel?? I know it's been done and is fairly well documented. It's a good project, and will serve you well. Biodiesel processing is easy once you get the hang of it, and will serve you well also. But while you're putting the new engine in your vanagon you might consider putting a vegetable oil fuel system on it at the same time. Good luck, AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Oil we eat (Harper's)
Keith Addison wrote: Hello Greg [snip] Anyway, let them eat what they want and arrange that for them, and, sure, they'll eat seeds. Feeding them no choice but grain concentrates is another matter entirely. It does do bad things to the consumable item, which happens to be the cow - that's not how a cow's digestion is made to work. Interesting that it's the grain-fed confinement cattle that cause the E. coli H157:O7 infections, for instance. Etc etc etc. Keep in mind also, more than half of all of the production of sodium hydrogen carbonate (baking soda) in the US goes to sooth the constantly irritated stomachs of feedlot cattle. They just weren't meant to eat a steady diet of grain concentrates. Whether raw grain or grain sileage. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Oil we eat (Harper's)
alex wrote: Hi! Brian C. wrote: Mish, (or Keith?) True perhaps, as far as sustainability and efficiency are concerned, small farms are the best solution. However, we have overpopulated this planet to such a degree that there would never be enough land to support our populations with only small, efficient farms. I disagree with this statement. It takes very little land to support sustainable food production. For example 1 acre of land can provide food for a family of 4, IMO. Alex I don't doubt that at all. I know one family of 4 on 4 acres, and they produce more food than they can eat. They trade their surplus with a local co-op. AP Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Oil we eat (Harper's)
robert luis rabello wrote: Keith Addison wrote: [snip. Weston A. Price and all that] I've been following Price's dietary principles for about 3 or 4 years now, and the change in my health has been remarkable. Keith, you pointed me at Price, do you remember when that was? I've gone from a sickly guy with no energy and lots of digestive problems who was cold all the time to a healthy guy with few digestive problems who usually leaves his jacket in his closet. My diet has gone from fat free, high carb, high sugar, lots of processed foods, and politically correct, to high fat, low carb, minimal sugar, and practically no processed foods. On grass fed milk: It's not just good, it's GREAT! I get raw milk from a grass fed dairy with a small herd of Jersey cattle. Unlike commercial milk, which is basically flavorless and colorless, this milk has both flavor and color. It's yellowish, sometimes almost orange. And it has LOTS of cream in it. Very high quality stuff. It does vary in flavor and color, but that is to be expected of a natural product. The trick is that the pasture isn't just grass. Dennis, my farmer, has a mixed pasture which has hairy indigo growing all over it, among other things including several species of clover, perslaine, wild beans, and all sorts of other things that cattle love. On grass fed meat: Dennis also produces grass fed beef, free range chicken, and free range eggs. The grass fed beef has a markedly different flavor from grain fed, and I think it tastes better. This is grass fed and grass _finished_ beef, so its fat is yellow or orange in color, and produces good suet when rendered. When he rotates his cattle off of a certain pasture he puts his chickens on it. They like to scratch through the cow patties and eat the bugs. It's really crazy all the stuff chickens will eat. Feed them the kitchen scraps and offal and they'll turn it into instant compost and distribute it about your land for you. Put nasty sour milk into the feed and the chickens will go nuts for it. Seems like the nastier it smells the more the chickens will like it. Best of all, they keep the bugs under control, and turn them into eggs. And Dennis' eggs are _outstanding_. They have big _bright_ orange yolks that just stand right up at you. And the meat of the chickens is delicious. Robert, if you can't eat the chickens that's OK. I'll eat your share! ;-) I'm even willing to kill it myself, like the author of the article that started this thread. Liz and I both have a taste for venison, so I have to go and get some. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 The teaser is good enough that I'm going to download it as soon as I can pull out my credit card. I'd have already downloaded it if they took Paypal. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [Fwd: [diesel-liberty] DCX Gets UAW OK To Change Jeep]
x-charset ISO-8859-1More union busting, and shipping of US jobs overseas. Original Message via thecarconnection.com: DCX Gets UAW OK To Change Jeep North America gets farmed-out assembly, in part. by Joseph Szczesny (2003-12-29) After three tries, DaimlerChrysler finally is in a position to move ahead with plans to outsource key parts of the assembly operations at a plant in North America to outside suppliers. In the fall of 2002, DaimlerChrysler had signed an agreement with the Canadian Auto Workers to allow suppliers to run the paint shop and body shop where vehicles are welded together at a new assembly plant outside Windsor, Ontario. The project died last spring, however, when the Chrysler Group ran into financial problems. Another effort to install the same kind of system at the DaimlerChrysler plant in Belvidere, Illinois, also foundered after the company and local union failed to work out differences, according to United Auto Workers sources. The new contract with UAW Local 12 in Toledo, Ohio, however, will give DaimlerChrysler a chance to adopt an approach it believes will help relieve some of the heavy capital costs connected to bring new models to market. The new agreement covers only the 4700 workers at Jeep, many of them former employees of the old American Motors Corp. who work at three plants around Toledo. The new eight-year contract will allow DaimlerChrysler for the first time to farm out welding and painting to outside suppliers. The Toledo workers approved the change by 3002 to 1012 votes during the ratification. Southern frontier Automakers have used a similar approach in South America but they have been slow to adopt it in North America because of resistance from the UAW and CAW, which have feared losing a tight grip on work traditionally done by its members. Local 12 negotiators, however, decided the new approach will lead to the creation of more jobs in the future and received a commitment from DaimlerChrysler that it will spend $2.1 billion on developing two new Jeeps and two other as yet unidentified products for assembly in Toledo. In addition, more than $900 million of the $2.1 billion will be used for new plants and equipment, UAW officials said before the voting. The agreement also provides for the construction of a new supplier park, union officials said. It's a different world and you've got to be willing to change with it, said Bruce Baumhower, president of UAW Local 12, who noted that competition is intense in the sport-utility vehicle segment, once dominated by Jeep product built in Toledo. I remember when we used to worry about the Ford Bronco. Now there are something like 80 different SUVs on the market and the competition isn't from GM or Ford or the Southern states but Mexico and China where they pay 90 cents per hour, Baumhower noted. John Franciosi, Chrysler Group Senior Vice President - Employee Relations, said the new agreement balances the needs of employees and the company, while allowing the company to use concepts of world-class operational flexibility. We want to use that flexibility to support our strategy of building new, derivative products using existing assembly capacity, he said. The local working agreement supports a business plan, now under discussion, to develop partnerships between the company, union, governments, and suppliers to devise alternative approaches for building new products, DaimlerChrysler officials added. Rank speculation However, speculation around Toledo is that DaimlerChrysler will now go ahead with a Dodge version of the next Jeep Liberty and perhaps a compact pickup truck built off the Jeep Wrangler platform. The current Wrangler's body is welded and painted at a century-old assembly plant in the center of Toledo and then shipped five miles to another plant where the vehicle is assembled. However, DaimlerChrysler will have to close the old paint shop in the center of Toledo by 2006 and the company would like to replace it with a new body and paint shop that could be run by outside suppliers. Alan Baum, an analyst with The Planning Edge, said there are undoubtedly suppliers who would like the opportunity to operate a body and paint shop. They want to try their hand at it because it gets them closer to building the whole vehicle, he said. Workers employed in the proposed body and paint system would get wages and benefits identical to other DaimlerChrysler workers, Baumhower said. Workers employed in the supplier park building parts of the chassis would be paid a smaller wage more closely aligned to the wages paid by companies such as Lear Corp. or Johnson Controls. UAW members now make $26 per hour, while unionized employees in the component end of the business make around $14 per hour. The wages and benefits in the suppliers would be more like those paid out to new employees at Delphi and Visteon, Baumhower said. Delphi and Visteon both are now in the midst of negotiating smaller wages for
