RE: [Biofuel] Help with animal fats
I would think that the water present would slow down the reaction. And the presence of Fatty acids that are not converted by transesterification but require Fisher (low pH) Esterification would give less than expected results. However, good water removal and Fisher Esterification followed by Transesterification should give good results. Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Help with animal fats hello everyone, Please I need to know why tranesterification to biodiesel is not so efficient with animal fats such as tallow and lard. Regards Nike Anti-Fossil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello John, I'm not sure how southern you are in Ontario, but I live in southern Minnesota, and had the same results from my garden that you mentioned. For us, it was a combination of the first half, to two-thirds of the growing season being too cool, with the latter half to one-third being almost a complete wash-out. Our temps did finally normalize, but by the time they did even our muskrats were looking for higher ground! Really pushed our farmers back as well, good thing winter came late. AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA * If you think you are too small to make a difference try sleeping with a mosquito. Dalai Lama * - Original Message - From: John Mullan To: Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Seeds Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for you. But I did want to mention that I use normal store bought pre-sprouted plants every year. This year I had horrible time with my veggies. Tomatoes especially took it hard this year. Looked diseased. Sweet green and hot peppers did fine. String beans did OK. Even onions faired poorly. I can't figure out what actually happend. I live in Southern Ontario. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of robert luis rabello Sent: January 3, 2005 1:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Seeds Hello everyone! My sweetheart and I have been planning our garden for this year. Last year's vegetables were, by far, the most successful we have ever managed; a fact particularly heartening when the poor condition of our soil is considered. (We're still eating fresh carrots, which we have left in the ground. Even in January, they are sweet and firm!) We'd used old seed. Our corn was especially pathetic. Tomatoes (the texture of which I liken to biting a human lip) stayed green until the rain arrived in October, then simply rotted. (This was a shame because my eldest son is particularly fond of them.) Squash, peas, purple beans, beets, potatoes, pumpkins, radishes and carrots did exceedingly well. Our broccoli was very late, but especially delicious. Cabbage did well for the first part of the summer, then the weather turned REALLY hot and the heads tended to split. Aside from the pumpkins, (which were fine grained and sweet) fruit didn't fare very well. Melons and cantaloupe never really developed. Our fruit trees are weak, but I'm working on that. . . We want to use fresh seed this year. Do any of you have any recommendations for cool, west coast climate vegetables? We would prefer a seed distributor located in western Canada or the United States. Thanks in advance! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at
RE: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use
I believe that two way converters work on the hydrocarbons and Carbon monoxide. However, I think that they do some conversion of Nitrogen oxides to Nitrogen. However, most of the Nitrogen oxides are generated by the high temperature of combustion breaking down the N to N triple bonds. The nitrogen in the fuel can increase nitrogen oxides but most are formed due to high peak combustion temperatures. To control this, one must reduce combustion temperature. I have heard of water injection or using water in diesel emulsion to reduce peak combustion temperatures and thus reducing Nitrogen oxide formation. Years ago I heard of a new technology that used a gold catalyst in a strong electro magnetic field to reduce Nitrogen oxides to Nitrogen. But I have not kept up with the technology. tom -Original Message- From: Robert Del Bueno [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 1:44 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use So does a 2 way catalytic converter have any effect on NOx, specifically with biodiesel usage? I am sure you see what I am getting at. NOx emissions combined with high ambient VOCs are very problematic for urban areas (specifically Atlanta, GA). In order to be able to really push biodiesel usage, the NOx rise must be addressed. I have also been looking into those various pre-combustion fuel catalysts..like the Fitch and the Rentar. Anyone had any experience with these?..they look to produce decent NOx reductions on petro-diesel. http://www.fitchfuelcatalyst.com/ http://www.rentar.com -Rob At 01:39 AM 8/20/2004 +0900, you wrote: Hello Tom Nice to hear from you again, it's been awhile. I hope we can settle his question, I think quite a lot of biod users want to know this. I thought that gas catalytic converters required extra air (oxygen) to operate. Most gas engines will pump gas into the exhaust before the converter to convert hydrocarbons to water and CO2 (this chemical reaction requires Oxygen) Carbon Monoxide to CO2 (this chemical reaction requires Oxygen) the third reaction is Nitrogen Oxides to Nitrogen. The problem with the current Diesel fuel in the US is that the Sulfur present which will coat the insides of the converter. Does it do that or does it destroy the catalyst? Like Leaded gas did in the early 1970's. Car makers have worked hard at getting better engines and converters but no one has looked at the source of the problem, sulfur in the fuel and guess what BIO D solves that problem Nobody wants to criticise the oil companies! Especially here in Japan, to a quite bizarre extent, but it seems to be a general malaise. The only time I've ever heard it suggested in any way officially was in Hong Kong in 1996 when a legislator with close ties to the tranport industry said: Why not just improve the existing diesel fuel and reduce its particulates? Everyone else politely pretended she hadn't said it. Best wishes Keith Tom -Original Message- From: Donald Allwright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:28 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use --- Robert Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can NOX emission increases from the use of biodiesel be successfully dealt with (at least brought back down to baseline) using a catalytic converter (in the event a vehicle uses sulfur free b100 only) ? The short answer - no. Petrol (gasoline) engines have a 3 way catalytic converter which can get rid of NOx, but this only works if there is no oxygen left in the exhaust. For this reason a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and oxygen is required. Diesel engines are lean-burn engines, which means that they have far more air present than a stoichiometric mix, and hence there is oxygen left in the exhaust. If a 3-way catalytic converter were fitted, it would actually combine the oxygen left with nitrogen and produce _more_ NOx emissions. For this reason, Diesel engines are fitted with 2-way catalytic converters, which are able to break down unburnt hydrocarbons very effectively. This is therefore unaffected by whether you are using petrodiesel or biodiesel. I'm not sure what the third catalyst in a 3-way CC does - it's been a few years since I studied engine operation! Hope that helps, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list
RE: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use
I thought that gas catalytic converters required extra air (oxygen) to operate. Most gas engines will pump gas into the exhaust before the converter to convert hydrocarbons to water and CO2 (this chemical reaction requires Oxygen) Carbon Monoxide to CO2 (this chemical reaction requires Oxygen) the third reaction is Nitrogen Oxides to Nitrogen. The problem with the current Diesel fuel in the US is that the Sulfur present which will coat the insides of the converter. Like Leaded gas did in the early 1970's. Car makers have worked hard at getting better engines and converters but no one has looked at the source of the problem, sulfur in the fuel and guess what BIO D solves that problem Tom -Original Message- From: Donald Allwright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:28 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use --- Robert Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can NOX emission increases from the use of biodiesel be successfully dealt with (at least brought back down to baseline) using a catalytic converter (in the event a vehicle uses sulfur free b100 only) ? The short answer - no. Petrol (gasoline) engines have a 3 way catalytic converter which can get rid of NOx, but this only works if there is no oxygen left in the exhaust. For this reason a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and oxygen is required. Diesel engines are lean-burn engines, which means that they have far more air present than a stoichiometric mix, and hence there is oxygen left in the exhaust. If a 3-way catalytic converter were fitted, it would actually combine the oxygen left with nitrogen and produce _more_ NOx emissions. For this reason, Diesel engines are fitted with 2-way catalytic converters, which are able to break down unburnt hydrocarbons very effectively. This is therefore unaffected by whether you are using petrodiesel or biodiesel. I'm not sure what the third catalyst in a 3-way CC does - it's been a few years since I studied engine operation! Hope that helps, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129rqsrr6/M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=gr oups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1092973476/A=2319498/R=0/SIG=11thfntfp/*http://www. netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185352partid=5285298 click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5285298.6392945.3001176/D=groups/S= :HM/A=2319498/rand=678543901 _ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use
-Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:39 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use Hello Tom Nice to hear from you again, it's been awhile. Just ... lurking and observing .. I hope we can settle his question, I think quite a lot of biod users want to know this. I thought that gas catalytic converters required extra air (oxygen) to operate. Most gas engines will pump gas into the exhaust before the converter to convert hydrocarbons to water and CO2 (this chemical reaction requires Oxygen) Carbon Monoxide to CO2 (this chemical reaction requires Oxygen) the third reaction is Nitrogen Oxides to Nitrogen. The problem with the current Diesel fuel in the US is that the Sulfur present which will coat the insides of the converter. Does it do that or does it destroy the catalyst? Well Nitrogen oxides and Sulfur oxides are both gases. In the converter you convert Nitrogen Oxides (gas) to Nitrogen (gas) and Oxygen (gas). Gases will exit the converter without any issues. Sulfur Oxides (gas) will be converted to sulfur (a solid) + Oxygen (gas). Now the solid starts to coat the inside surfaces of the converter. So in a short amount of time the sites on the converter that do the conversions are coated with Sulfur and can not convert the Hydrocarbons, CO and Nitrogen oxides to CO2, Water vapor and Nitrogen gas. Now the boiling point of Sulfur solid is 450 C / 842 F so some of the sulfur will form a vapor as the converter heats up. I think converters heat up to about 500 C. Now this vapor will combine with the oxygen present to form Sulfur oxides again. These Sulfur oxides will now exit the converter. However, until ALL of the sulfur is vaporized you will not get conversion of Hydrocarbons, CO and Nitrogen oxides to CO2, Water vapor and Nitrogen gas. I don't know if you run a converter on a constant supply of fuel with Sulfur if you will ever get the converter back to 100%. A tank of sulfur containing gas now and then may not be a problem but constant Sulfur would be a problem. Current US Diesel has sulfur present as a lube agent, so in diesels you will never get a converter for gasoline engines to work. Unless you use Bio D as the lube agent and eliminate the sulfur. Even at very low Sulfur concentrations the Sulfur oxides will compete for the catalysis and thus the nitrogen oxides will pass through the converter unchanged. This will occur until the inside surfaces are coated with sulfur solids. Also Diesel produce soot which can also coat inside of a converter and reduce its ability to work, again 100% Bio D would eliminate or greatly greatly reduce this. In the early 1970s when converters were first placed on cars one tank of leaded gas would coat the inside surfaces with lead which has a boiling point of 1750 C / 3200 F. In this case the converter never gets hot enough to vaporize the lead and remove it from the converter. That is why leaded gas was phased out in the early 1970s. Here is a horror story An average car running on leaded gas would emit 500 pounds of lead in its life time. Just remember we all had to breath that air contaminated with Lead. Hope this helps, I did a 1 hr presentation on auto pollution in college in the middle 80's. The above information was presented then. Tom Like Leaded gas did in the early 1970's. Car makers have worked hard at getting better engines and converters but no one has looked at the source of the problem, sulfur in the fuel and guess what BIO D solves that problem Nobody wants to criticise the oil companies! Especially here in Japan, to a quite bizarre extent, but it seems to be a general malaise. The only time I've ever heard it suggested in any way officially was in Hong Kong in 1996 when a legislator with close ties to the tranport industry said: Why not just improve the existing diesel fuel and reduce its particulates? Everyone else politely pretended she hadn't said it. Best wishes Keith Tom -Original Message- From: Donald Allwright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:28 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] NOX and catalytic converter use --- Robert Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can NOX emission increases from the use of biodiesel be successfully dealt with (at least brought back down to baseline) using a catalytic converter (in the event a vehicle uses sulfur free b100 only) ? The short answer - no. Petrol (gasoline) engines have a 3 way catalytic converter which can get rid of NOx, but this only works if there is no oxygen left in the exhaust. For this reason a stoichiometric mixture of fuel and oxygen is required. Diesel engines are lean-burn engines, which means that they have far more air present than a stoichiometric mix, and hence there is oxygen left in the exhaust. If a
[biofuel] glycerin use
After one removed the water could the glycerin be mixed with SVO and burned in a Diesel? Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy - next step to Hydrogen econom y
This is how I see the next step to a Hdydrogen economy. H2 gas would be used to store electical power generated at non peak times (from midnight to say 5:00 am), then this H2 gas would be used to generated power during peak loading to reduce the need for large generator upgrades. At first H2 would be burned to produce power but with new technology I see banks of fuel cells generating power and waste heat that could be used to heat local building, homes, etc. Then as more H2 to generated at off peak times, pipelines could expand the use of H2 in other fuel cell units. Tom -Original Message- From: Pieter Koole [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:21 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy Hi, I allready make ethanol ( well, I don't but the yeast does ). I intend to use it for making BD I'm interested in making H2 out of water as a way of storing surplus solar energy, or perhaps drive a petrol car on it. In Holland ( probably also in US ) we have many cars driving on LPG ( liquified petroleum gas ), wich maybe also can drive on H2. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy What I don't understand is why, in addition to experiments with making Hydrogen, folks don't also seem to be experimenting with going further than that. Why not make ethanol and methane and so forth? Hydrogen has a drawback in that it's a gas at room temperature. So, if you're experimenting at home trying to devise a chemical means of storing energy, is this ideal? If you could take the H2 and somehow immediately combine it with Carbon and Oxygen in such a way as to make Ethanol or Methanol, then you could use those liquids more at your own liesure? There are plenty of other molecules you could experiment with. I'm just suggesting as a matter of principle there's no reason (no good one that I can see) to just stop at H2. Sure, it could require extra energy to get to other chemical products, but the advantages (such as easier storage) might be worth it, and we don't know yet if the amount of energy would be prohibitive. MM On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:51:53 +0900, you wrote: Hi all, I would like to try some experiments on hydrogen. First : What is the best way to make it out of water ? What electrodes should I use, so they don't go in solution ? What electrolite should I use ? Is there a link where I can find some information for beginners on this item ? By the way : I have been driving over 100.000 km on BD now, without any problems at all. Just great! Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Dag Pieter Caveman Chemistry previously had a nice description and slide show of producing Chlorine, Hydrogen, and Lye from table salt, using PET bottles, flashlight batteries, glue and stuff. Wire electrodes would be corroded by the lye and chlorine. We could use gold or platinum wire, but the poor man's inert electrode is carbon. The easiest place to get carbon electrodes is from a flashlight battery. It is imperative that you use ordinary flashlight batteries, not alkaline batteries, since alkaline batteries put the zinc in the center and the carbon on the outside. Ordinary flashlight batteries have a carbon rod down the middle and a zinc can on the outside. Now that site has changed, and I can't find this section there anymore. http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/index.html http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/index.html Caveman Chemistry Only these: http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali2.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali2.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali.html Here's the previous text though, below, without the slide show, hope it makes sense. regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
[biofuel] good diesel to buy
What would be a good diesel to buy, make and model for Biod. For SVO? Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Can I make soap from WVO?
You will always make some soap when you make bio-B in the one step process. You can greatly reduce the amount of soap that you make if you use the two step process. Step one: convert Free Fatty Acids to methyl esters at low pH. Step two: convert the oil to methyl esters at high pH. Free Fatty acids are brake down products of oil from heat or biological activity. So fresh oil that has not been heated will have low amounts of Free fatty acids. But the two step process will allow one to make bio-d from oil that has alot of Free fatty acids and reduce that formation of soaps. Basicly the two step process allows one to use less lye which makes less soaps but still allows for the convertion to methyl esters. The big jelly blob are due to soaps. Check the archive for recipes the 1 step and 2 step recipes are there. T -Original Message- From: neeterlynn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:48 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Can I make soap from WVO? Can somebody please help me?I know glycerine is a biproduct of making biodiesel, but what if I set out to make soap from the beginning? Will I end up with more soap than if I made biodiesel and saved the glycerine?I'm not quite ready to make biodiesel, but I read that oils mixed with lye makes soap basicly.If someone has some answers or recipes, it would be so valuable to me! I read also that if you put too much lye when making biodiesel and made a big jelly blob, you could still make it into soap. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE Cell Phones with up to $400 Cash Back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_bBUKB/vYxFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Question about catalysts
I would expect that if you had a ion exchange resin one could raise/lower the pH of the system. Then the fisher esterification or transesterification would proceed. Then since NaOH or KOH was not added post reaction clean up would be easier. T -Original Message- From: Jim Raddon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:52 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Question about catalysts Hi, I'm new to this biodiesel thing. I've read about the one step, two step, and acid/base foolproof method. My question is - are there any other catalysts that would make this reaction work? I'm a little green in the chemistry department. I know about sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and sulfuric acid (H2S04), what about platinum? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] mixing biodisel with gasoline
I know the someone posted about useing Bio D with ethanol in 2 cycle engines but they had to drill out the carb jets to get it to work well check the archives. T -Original Message- From: buffaloman16362 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:30 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] mixing biodisel with gasoline hello, can biodisel be mixed with gasoline, and used in a gasoline engine? would a 1% to 20 % work? would this mix work in 2 cycle engines? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Save Smiley. Help put Messenger back in the office. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4PqtEC/anyFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mixing fuels
If you use the 1 step process and seperate out soaps, can you treat the soaps and convert them to Bio-D? I know that you can in the 2 step process but that is before you form soaps? T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online-No late fees! Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/YKLNcC/oEZFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] fuel comparisons
Were you measuring Carbon Monoxide or hydrocarbons? T -Original Message- From: Craig Pech [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:51 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] fuel comparisons Just did a comparison the other day. Used a Bacharach Monoxor - about a $780 unit for the test. Ford diesel truck with about 25 to 30% BioD was 157 ppm. Ford Excursion (gas) parked next to it pegged at 2000 ppm (the unit does not read over 2000 ppm). Both vehicles are fairly new - less than 65,000 miles, and are well maintained. Craig - Original Message - From: Sarna Salzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: Plant Lady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:49 AM Subject: [biofuel] fuel comparisons I'm looking for emission comparisons specifically between biodiesel and gasoline. There seems to be information comparing biodiesel and petroldiesel, but I'm having a hard time finding more. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find real data? We are working on a car sharing initiative in Michigan and our goals are to have the cleanest ride possible and still be able to get around. If we can find some real numbers showing the positive attributes of biodiesel, we will likely look into producing and marketing it to the local marinas and public transit authorities. Thanks for your help! Ss Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] using Bio D in space heaters
Hi All, Has there been anyone who has used bio D in portable space heaters that usually use kerosene? Does Bio D burn clean enough? I saw some kerosene additives at Wal-Mart that had perfume to reduce (cover) the burned kerosene smell. Would Bio D 100% or mixed with kerosene burn better with less odor? T Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] using Bio D in space heaters
Hi All, Has there been anyone who has used bio D in portable space heaters that usually use kerosene? Does Bio D burn clean enough? I saw some kerosene additives at Wal-Mart that had perfume to reduce (cover) the burned kerosene smell. Would Bio D 100% or mixed with kerosene burn better with less odor? T Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] fuel additives
How much Bio D can be added to a gasoline engine before it starts to cause problems? I have heard that some will add a gallon or two of diesel to gasoline engine's fuel tank if the engine has a slight knock. I guess that the slower burn speed of the diesel helps to reduce eliminate the knock? Will Bio D do the same thing? T Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Putting back together glycerine and fatty acid
I would think that if one could get the glycerine to react with a shorter acid (maybe acetic) then the glycerine could be used in the bio-d. Since these are smaller molecules they would have a lower cloud point and may help the bio d to stay liquid at colder temps. T -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 11:47 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Putting back together glycerine and fatty acid Hi all, Is there any way to recombine glycerine and fatty acid. We know that we can split veg oil into glycerine and ffa by hydrolisis. What would encourage glycerine and ffa to stick back. Thanks Ken Hi Ken What would be the point of doing that? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Speedier BioD Washing
So it was clear after cooling at 38 F for 8 hr? How cloudy was it before? T -Original Message- From: Craig Pech [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 11:06 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Speedier BioD Washing After waiting forever for BioD to separate during washing, I tried a trick that was identified for separating ethanol - Cooling / freezing it. The freezing attempt failed. After moving the sample to the refrigerator (about 38 degrees F) - it appeared to work! I left it in overnight - about 8 hours. I have no idea why it worked, but the separation appears to be clean and very effective. Comments? Craig Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Cat converters
For Gasoline engines... Sulfur in fuel do not bind the catalyst in the converter. They (Sulfur oxides) compete for the active sites on the catalyst. There are only so many active sites and if the fuel has high sulfur then more of these sites that could convert Nitrogen oxides to nitrogen gas and carbon dioxide are being used to convert Sulfur oxides. So fewer site are available to convert Nitrogen oxides to nitrogen gas and carbon dioxide I don't know if it is the same in Diesel catalyst converters? T -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:41 AM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Cat converters I don't know why he would have cats on a fleet before he secures the type of fuel supplied with 100% certainty. Even low sulfur fuel binds up the catalyst in a converter, quickly rendering it ineffective. However, having a fleet that is fueled without fail from but one source yields the opportunity to run biodiesel with a cat for NOx emissions. Biodiesel is sulfur free. Look to the DIN standard for verification of lack of sulfur content. Mind you that this is only in reference to B-100, as blends of biodiesel and petro-diesel will have sulfur in them (even 50 and 10 ppm EU diesel) and again render the cat useless in short order. What some people consider biodiesel is frequently nothing more than a blend. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: David Teal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:35 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Cat converters A prospective biodiesel user (waste management contractor) operates a fleet already fitted with catalytic converters. Can anyone please point to an authoritative reference which confirms that the fuel and the device are compatible? Obviously the workers are in close proximity to the tailpipe emissions, which makes it the perfect application. I just need to convince the fleet manager that his cat won't die. David T. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/7dY7FD/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM --- --~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Hybrid Diesel Motorcycle
I just purchased a gasoline powered 2 cycle engine weedeater. I can remember some discussions concerning the use of Bio diesel instead of Dino oil to provide lubrication for the 2 cycle engine. How much Bio diesel do you add? I know that the ratio for Dino Oil is 32 parts gasoline and 1 part Dino oil (4 oz oil per gallon of gas). Also did someone use Ethanol and Bio diesel to run a 2 cylce engine on a bike? T -Original Message- From: Sean Cook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:19 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Hybrid Diesel Motorcycle Gee I just want to buy one.,.,.,., so much for U.S. production. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 10:46 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hybrid Diesel Motorcycle http://www.ecycle.com/powersports/hybrid.htm We've had that thing reffed from our website for more than a year, and nothing seems to happen with it, still just the same, same old pictures, still not in production. eCycle plans to introduce the hybrid motorcycle to beta testers in 2002. Tell you a secret - it's been 2002 for awhile now. Is it just one of these schemes where it's all just around the corner, just needs another few million or so? Lotsa diesel bikes here, by the way: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html The new military Kawasaki for NATO and the US is the most interesting one, IMO. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values (to Ken from Phillipines)
I there any way to transesterfy the Glycerin? It has 3 -OH groups I would think that you could esterfy with Acetic acid. If you esterfied all 3 -OH groups you would have a C9 hydrocarbon with 6 oxygens. Talk about an oxygenated fuel. I think that a C-9 is close to the size of gasoline fuels...? Could this be a oxygenated additive for gasoline engines. Maybe 3-5% Biodiesal would also help to lower emissions and make up for the BTU loss when you add the esterfied glycerin to the tank. Just thinking (typing) out loud. T -Original Message- From: Christian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:43 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values (to Ken from Phillipines) Hi Ken, I«ve had my doubts on the stoichiometric values since a beginning (not that they were wrong or anything, I was just curious), but I never had the tiem to write it down on paper. We could briefly try it here, assuming you«ve got the percentages of FA in coconut oil is as you«ve described: The corresponding fatty acids are: 46% C12H24O 18% C14H28O 10% C16H32O 4% C18H36O 6% C18H34O But for each FA chain on the glyceol, there is one H lost in the esterification, together with the OH group of the glycerin. We«ll assume no FFA. So the ester chain in the triglicerid will be as follows: 46% C12H23O = 183 g 18% C14H27O = 211 g 10% C16H31O = 239 g 4% C18H35O = 267 g 6% C18H33O = 261 g And the glycerol bit will weigh: CH2-CH-CH2 = 41 g I suppose we can the say that 1 Mole of WVO (Coconut) will have: 41g + (0.46x183 + 0.18x211 + 0.1x239 + 0.04x267 + 0.06x261) = 213.4 g Methanol weighs: CH3OH = 32 g/mol Glyc-R-R«-R«« --(CH3ONa)-- Glyc + ROCH3 + R«OCH3 + R««OCH3 + Na(+) But we could assume that one mole of WVO will require one mole of Methanol, as the methyl group in it is exactly what will join the FA in the transesterification So every 213.4g of WVO will require 32g of Methanol Coconut oil«s density at 20¼C is close to 0.919 g/ml (or so I read on the internet). So 213.4 g (1 mole) will equal 232.201 ml. On the other side, the density for methanol is 0.79, so 32g of methanol represent 40.5063 ml. So, 40.5063 ml in 232.201 ml represent 17.44 The proposed value (M. Pelly«s recipe) is 20% by volume. The value we got to here is 17.44% That«s only 2.56% shorter than the proposed value. The 20% value is useful to push the reaction towards the products side, anyway, you should be able to use a minimum of 17.4% methanol (in volume) to transesterify your WVO. I use sunflower oil, and my % is even lower (close to 11% in vol). Hope to have been of help. Best wishes, Christian Lenoir - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Stoichiometric Balance of methanol vs glycerine Hello Christian, First of all i want to thank you for your posts. They have been very helpful and informative. I am Ken and from the Philippines. I have been making BD for a year now thanks to this group. I use what i make because the price of BD is not competitive to regular diesel. I was checking the stoichiometric balance of methanol to glycerine when i felt something might be wrong and hope maybe you can clear it up for me. In our reaction we need 3 moles of methanol to every mole of glycerine to be replaced right? or 1 mole of methanol for every mole of fatty acid(be it lauric, myristic, stearic et al). I use coconut oil and the data for coconut oil is as follows C12:0 - 46% C14:0 - 18% C16:0 - 10% C18:0 - 4% C18:1 - 6% in short there is around 1.74 moles of glycerine for every 1000 grams of refined coconut oil. From here i would need 5.22 moles of methanol or 210 ml of methanol. The receipe in journey to forever says to use 200 ml of methanol for every 1000 ml of oil and they say that has alot of excess already. So this is my dilema, are my calculations wrong. I wonder how Keith and the rest came up with the prescribed volume for methanol. Thanks and Best Regards Ken __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
