Re: [Biofuel] A chapter ends ...
Thanks Chip. Thanks Darryl. Thanks to all who have contributed to the group. Tom Kelly -Original Message- From: "Darryl McMahon" <dar...@econogics.com> Sent: 12/31/2016 2:54 PM To: "Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org" <Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org> Subject: [Biofuel] A chapter ends ... ... and another begins. I want to thank Chip for his efforts in recent years to keep the list operating. I don't really know how much effort that was (it was considerable when I last ran a list many years ago), but I'm grateful I did not have to look after that, freeing me to concentrate on content. I don't see this list (sustainablelorgbiofuel) as being much work for me. If I read a piece which I think deserves a wider audience, I simply shared it. I could just add it to Reddit or StumbleUpon or other such tools instead, but those do not save the content to make it searchable (in the mail archive). And while Internet searches are more comprehensive, they don't have a human filter to determine what is real and what is manufactured. In a world where perception and sound-bytes rule the mainstream messaging, I think that has value. In a world of Internet narrow-casting where feeds provide only reinforcement for pre-selected viewpoints, I hope that occasionally some of the posts I share cause others to pause and think for a moment. This was Keith's gift to me (and many others). I came to learn about biodiesel, and I learned about so much more. I have set up a new mail list via FreeLists.org. I have called this Keith's List because in my mind that is the most accurate and succinct description of it, though not everyone has known or corresponded with Keith Addison. It's a bit last minute, so the transition may be a bit rough. Same purpose, same mandate, same rules. If you think there should be discussion of a topic you are not seeing, just jump in and post. Perhaps you can ask a question (though I hope the archives will continue to be your first-stop resource to reduce duplication), or find some like-minded souls to help with your personal projects and desires to 'save the world'. It's a big place; no doubt you can find something in it to improve. Sorry, the following instructions are a direct lift from the list instructions, but I'm rather working to deadline as this list expires today. + - Subscribers can join your list by sending email to keiths-list-requ...@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting your list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/keiths-list. - To post on your mailing list, simply send email to keiths-l...@freelists.org (only after you are a list member) - Online, searchable archives of your list are available at http://www.freelists.org/archive/keiths-list Each list's archive is automatically updated as new messages come in. - There's a FAQ at http://www.freelists.org/wiki/the_faq + Please note: I will not subscribe anyone to this list (or unsubscribe them either). The first post is up, and can be seen in the on-line archive at: http://www.freelists.org/post/keiths-list/First-Post,13 (I believe the on-line archive is web-accessible without need for a log-in, but unfortunately appears to be supported by ads. As far as I can tell, no ads in the e-mail version or via the member's web interface, which requires a log-in. I still have some learning to do.) See you on the other list if you choose to show up there. If not, strength to your arm, and all best in your future endeavours. Wishing you all a successful (however you choose to define that) 2017, Your correspondent, Darryl McMahon “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” ― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] A chapter ends ...
Darryl, Thank you so much for picking up this ball! I have been reading for about 15 years with only a few posts, because I had so much more to learn than to say. I came to learn biofuel for my off-grid homestead. I got a broad education. Keith's perspective and this list have made the difference between my feeling overwhelmed and marginalized by much of our social direction, and gaining valid perspectives for inquiry. Thanks again, Tom Thiel New Hampshire USA On 12/31/16 2:54 PM, Darryl McMahon wrote: ... and another begins. I want to thank Chip for his efforts in recent years to keep the list operating. I don't really know how much effort that was (it was considerable when I last ran a list many years ago), but I'm grateful I did not have to look after that, freeing me to concentrate on content. I don't see this list (sustainablelorgbiofuel) as being much work for me. If I read a piece which I think deserves a wider audience, I simply shared it. I could just add it to Reddit or StumbleUpon or other such tools instead, but those do not save the content to make it searchable (in the mail archive). And while Internet searches are more comprehensive, they don't have a human filter to determine what is real and what is manufactured. In a world where perception and sound-bytes rule the mainstream messaging, I think that has value. In a world of Internet narrow-casting where feeds provide only reinforcement for pre-selected viewpoints, I hope that occasionally some of the posts I share cause others to pause and think for a moment. This was Keith's gift to me (and many others). I came to learn about biodiesel, and I learned about so much more. I have set up a new mail list via FreeLists.org. I have called this Keith's List because in my mind that is the most accurate and succinct description of it, though not everyone has known or corresponded with Keith Addison. It's a bit last minute, so the transition may be a bit rough. Same purpose, same mandate, same rules. If you think there should be discussion of a topic you are not seeing, just jump in and post. Perhaps you can ask a question (though I hope the archives will continue to be your first-stop resource to reduce duplication), or find some like-minded souls to help with your personal projects and desires to 'save the world'. It's a big place; no doubt you can find something in it to improve. Sorry, the following instructions are a direct lift from the list instructions, but I'm rather working to deadline as this list expires today. + - Subscribers can join your list by sending email to keiths-list-requ...@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting your list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/keiths-list. - To post on your mailing list, simply send email to keiths-l...@freelists.org (only after you are a list member) - Online, searchable archives of your list are available at http://www.freelists.org/archive/keiths-list Each list's archive is automatically updated as new messages come in. - There's a FAQ at http://www.freelists.org/wiki/the_faq + Please note: I will not subscribe anyone to this list (or unsubscribe them either). The first post is up, and can be seen in the on-line archive at: http://www.freelists.org/post/keiths-list/First-Post,13 (I believe the on-line archive is web-accessible without need for a log-in, but unfortunately appears to be supported by ads. As far as I can tell, no ads in the e-mail version or via the member's web interface, which requires a log-in. I still have some learning to do.) See you on the other list if you choose to show up there. If not, strength to your arm, and all best in your future endeavours. Wishing you all a successful (however you choose to define that) 2017, Your correspondent, Darryl McMahon “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” ― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] The downside of biodiesel fuel
Maybe we could suggest JtF archives as a good place to start research. -Original Message- From: Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com Sent: 5/5/2015 12:12 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] The downside of biodiesel fuel http://phys.org/news/2015-05-downside-biodiesel-fuel.html [Couldn't possibly be the cleaning action of biodiesel in a vehicle with years of petro-crap in fuel system. Not enough info in the article to know, and lots of mythology re-cycled. Of course, if you were a university prof looking for grant money, no point in looking at what others have already learned when you can redo it all from scratch. images in on-line article] May 5, 2015 The downside of biodiesel fuel The oil industry believes biodiesel is not to blame for problems that Norwegian car owners are experiencing. But the nature of the fuel means that it has to be handled differently than regular petroleum-based diesel, a Norwegian researcher says, especially in colder climates or if it is stored for longer periods. Can diesel made from a biodiesel blend be blamed for clogged car filters and nozzles, reduced or lost engine power and costly visits to the garage by Norwegian car owners? No, says the oil industry. But Professor Terese Løvås from the Norwegian University of Science and Technology (NTNU) doesn't want to dismiss biodiesel concerns so easily. We know that biodiesel behaves differently than petroleum-derived diesel. Biodiesel is a 'living' substance that can change and deteriorate over time. This can create problems that are not addressed adequately by the current European Union (EU) product standards. We may need to review all the relevant standards, and look at what needs to be done to prevent these problems, says Løvås, from NTNU's Department of Energy and Process Engineering. All auto diesel fuel sold in Norway contains as much as 7 per cent biodiesel. The blend is intended to help reduce CO2 emissions, because in principle biofuels are climate neutral. The biodiesel/petrodiesel fuel blend requirements are based on EU product standards that stipulate detailed fuel characteristics under various conditions. Clogged filters However, Norwegian car owners regularly report that they have problems where biodiesel is suspected to be the cause. Following a sharp increase in clogged diesel filters a few years ago, the British Department for Transport asked the oil industry and regulatory authorities to solve the problem. Auto filters became plugged by a waxy substance in cold weather, and cars lost engine power. The BBC reported that the biodiesel additive was the probable cause of the problems. A possible explanation was the use of recycled cooking oil, which clumps readily in the cold. The Norwegian television programme TV 2 hjelper reported the woes of a car owner who earlier this winter struggled with repeated engine problems and expensive repairs. The auto repair shop said that her car could not tolerate diesel with the biofuel additive. The program also interviewed a repair shop owner who said his shop serviced one to two cars a week that had clogged filters and nozzles, probably caused by biodiesel. A familiar problem According to Løvås, we don't know the full extent of the problem or how much it has increased since biodiesel has been blended into petrodiesel, but it is quite clear that it is a growing problem. It's a well-known issue among researchers and the subject of a lot of research, she says. The main problem is that biofuels are less stable than petrodiesel, and they deteriorate over time. Light, temperature and humidity increase the rate of deterioration. Biofuels contain oxygen compounds, which can lead to oxidation if the fuel is not processed and stored properly. The fuel then forms waxy substances that can clog filters and nozzles, says Løvås. The EU product standard EN590 summarizes the product requirements for diesel fuel. The standard contains detailed requirements for cetane numbers (corresponding to octane in gasoline), density and viscosity, for example. Scientists, governments, engine manufacturers and oil companies have collaborated to develop and periodically update the standard over many years. Standards inadequate Løvås believes that the current diesel fuel standard does not adequately address the problems that stem from biofuels changing over time. Right now, there are clear requirements for the fuel quality when it leaves the production site. Perhaps we also need standard requirements for fuel storage and handling, for example how long the fuel can be stored, and under what conditions, without changing character, she says. But more tests cost more money, as do technical measures such as extra fine filtration to remove wax particles before filling the tank with fuel. If new requirements are imposed on oil companies, they
Re: [Biofuel] Solar breakhrough
On my way at 6:30 T On 24 Mar 15, at 6:23, bmolloy wrote: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/188667-a-fully-transparent-solar-cell-tha t-could-make-every-window-and-screen-a-power-source ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Carbon capture by new compound cuts energy cost by half
It's value may be that it will produce pure CO2 at low cost. Pure CO2 has industrial applications. Rather than sequester an undesirable waste, recover it as a valuable commodity. -Original Message- From: Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com Sent: 3/12/2015 12:21 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Carbon capture by new compound cuts energy cost by half http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/carbon-capture-by-new-compound-cuts-energy-cost-by-half-1491601 [images and links in on-line article My interpretation is that this material is intended to facilitate CO2 capture, but is not intended to be a permanent means of sequestration. So, a step forward, perhaps, but not the complete solution. Definitely requires further study before I get too excited.] Carbon capture by new compound cuts energy cost by half By Jayalakshmi K March 12, 2015 11:23 GMT CO2 release They can release the CO2 at just 50 C above the temperature at which the gas binds compared to the 100 C required in current compounds. MOFs are composites of metals with organic compounds that form a porous structure with tiny, parallel channels to which the CO2 adsorbs. The amines cause the CO2 to load into the material very quickly at a specific temperature and pressure, and then come out quickly when the temperature is raised by 50 C. When the first CO2 starts to adsorb at a very specific pressure, all of a sudden it facilitates more CO2 adsorption, and the MOF rapidly saturates. That is really a different property from any other CO2 adsorbent based on amines, says Long. The diamines bind to the metal atoms of the MOF and then react with CO2 to form metal-bound ammonium carbamate which lines the interior of the MOF. At a sufficiently high pressure, one CO2 molecule binding to an amine triggers other CO2 molecules to bind like a zipper running down the channel. Power plants that capture CO2 today use an old technology whereby the waste gases are bubbled through organic amines in water, and the carbon dioxide binds to amines. This liquid is then heated to 120-150 degrees Celsius (250-300 degrees Fahrenheit) to release the gas, after which the liquids are reused. The entire process consumes about 30% of the power generated. Challenges of CCS Current atmospheric concentration of CO2 is now 400 parts per million (ppm) and the IPCC and other organisations advocate bringing this to below 350 ppm before the end of the century to avoid irreversible climate change. Carbon capture and sequestration (CCS) remains a popular form of mitigation of excessive carbon emissions into the atmosphere. But the technique has its problems. Carbon sequestration techniques inject carbon dioxide into the subsurface some 7,000 feet below the Earth's surface where it can be stored in salty aquifers that can chemically react with carbon dioxide to solidify the gas eventually. But a recent MIT study using computer modelling showed that a large part of the gas is not converted to rock but remains mobile and can return into the atmosphere with dangerous implications. Globally, around 20 demonstration projects are expected to be set up by 2020, in various industrial sectors. But to date most CCS projects at coal power plants have been scaled back, delayed, or cancelled mostly due to high costs. Transport issues and operational risks, such as seismic tremors have also been raised. One large, coal-fired plant alone generates the equivalent of 3 billion barrels of CO2 over an average 60-year lifetime. This would require the equivalent of a major oil field to contain. The pressure could cause leaks or earthquakes, as shown in the 2010 Stanford and Duke university studies. = http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/carbon-storage-underground-may-not-be-effective-large-part-gas-likely-escape-fatal-consequences-1484354 [image and links in on-line article] Carbon storage underground may not be effective, large part of gas likely to escape with fatal consequences By Jayalakshmi K January 21, 2015 05:55 GMT Researchers at MIT have found that carbon sequestration may not be a permanent solution to limiting emissions as a large part of the gas is not converted to rock but remains mobile and can return into the atmosphere. While current carbon-sequestration technologies offer a way to eliminate up to 90% of carbon dioxide emissions from coal-fired power plants, the process is efficient only if the gas is absorbed into rocks in deep Earth. The team that studied the chemical reactions between carbon dioxide and its surroundings once the gas is injected into the Earth found a large fraction of the gas stays in a tenuous form. If it turns into rock, it's stable and will remain there permanently, says postdoc Yossi Cohen. However, if it stays in its gaseous or liquid
Re: [Biofuel] Yale Environment 360: Solar Shingles Made from Common Metals Offer Cheaper Energy Option
Nice. Cost competitive with coal-fired power plants within 2 decades.. Just had my roof done, but will be ready to re-shingle by then. See Darryl, I'm not so impatient. With the new roof, I'm interested in pv panels. What is the functional life span? I assume it will get me to my next roof made of solar shingles; 20-25 years. Tom -Original Message- From: Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com Sent: 2/13/2015 7:52 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Yale Environment 360: Solar Shingles Made from Common Metals Offer Cheaper Energy Option http://e360.yale.edu/digest/solar_shingles_made_from__common_metals_offer_cheaper_energy_option/3600/ e360 digest 22 Aug 2012: Solar Shingles Made from Common Metals Offer Cheaper Energy Option U.S. scientists say that emerging photovoltaic technologies will enable the production of solar shingles made from abundantly available elements rather than rare-earth metals, an innovation that would make solar energy cheaper and more sustainable. Speaking at the annual meeting of the American Chemical Society, a team of researchers described advances in solar cells made with abundant metals, such as copper and zinc. While the market already offers solar shingles that convert the sun’s energy into electricity, producers typically must use elements that are scarce and expensive, such as indium and gallium. According to Harry A. Atwater, a physicist at the California Institute of Technology, recent tests suggest that materials like zinc phosphide and copper oxide could be capable of producing electricity at prices competitive with coal-fired power plants within two decades. With China accounting for more than 90 percent of the world’s rare-earth supplies — and prices rising sharply — companies and nations are racing to find new sources of rare earth minerals, which are used in everything from solar panels to smart phones. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Monsanto Is Making Us Sick: A Protest at Monsanto's Headquarters
Special thanks for this one Darryl. To all, Please read it Tom -Original Message- From: Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com Sent: 2/9/2015 7:08 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Monsanto Is Making Us Sick: A Protest at Monsanto's Headquarters http://truth-out.org/news/item/29004-a-lively-day-at-monsanto-headquarters [links and video in on-line article] Monsanto Is Making Us Sick: A Protest at Monsanto's Headquarters Monday, 09 February 2015 11:36 By Alexis Baden-Mayer, Organic Consumers Association | Video On January 30, the Organic Consumers Association (OCA) joined Moms Across America (MAA), SumofUs, Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom, Harrington Investments and GMO Free Midwest in a protest and confrontation at Monsanto’s annual shareholder meeting. The meeting was held at Monsanto corporate headquarters outside St. Louis, Mo., in a town called Creve Coeur—which in French means Broken Heart. It’s a fitting name for the location of a company that has caused so much heartache with its toxic chemicals. OCA’s mission on January 30 was to let Monsanto know, in no uncertain terms, that its so-called science—bought and paid for with dirty corporate money—is no match for the research being conducted by honest, independent scientists. And that research is clear: Monsanto is making us sick. OCA launched our “Monsanto Makes Us Sick” campaign with speeches by medical doctors Jeff Ritterman and Norm Shealy who summed up the scientific case against Monsanto’s flagship product, Roundup herbicide. We also constructed a memorial, in front of the Monsanto sign on the company’s lawn, to victims of Monsanto and Roundup. Zen Honeycutt of MAA, acting as a proxy for Harrington Investments, took the message of our protest inside the shareholders’ meeting. She presented Monsanto CEO Hugh Grant with more than 500 testimonials from members of both MAA and OCA describing how their health, or the health of a family member, had been damaged by Roundup and its key active ingredient, glyphosate. Honeycutt also delivered a bibliography listing scores of scientific articles linking Monsanto’s Roundup to the health problems described in the testimonials. When it was her turn to speak, Honeycutt spoke directly to Monsanto CEO Hugh Grant: I want to share with you why I personally am here. I have three sons, 12, 9 and 6, and they all have food allergies and my husband and I never did. Two have life-threatening nut allergies and one son we almost lost twice; I held his hand in the hospital and prayed to God for his life. But when we went organic, his allergies went from a 19 to a 0.2; he no longer has life-threatening allergies. And, my other son, at 8 years old, had a rash around his mouth, and a sudden onset of autism symptoms. His grades dropped from A’s to D’s. He was hitting and had erratic behavior. I got him tested and he had Clostridium difficile, fungus, clostridia, leaky gut, 19 different food intolerances and gut dysbiosis. These are all things farm animals have when they are exposed to glyphosate [the main ingredient in Monsanto’s Roundup herbicide]. I got him tested for glyphosate and he had 8.7 ppb in his urine, eight times higher than was found in anyone in Europe. So we all went organic to avoid glyphosate and within 6 weeks, we tested him again and his levels of glyphosate were undetectable. His autism symptoms were also gone and he has not had a single autism symptom since. And, I am not the only one; we have hundreds of testimonials. We see our kids get better from autism, allergies, asthma and autoimmune disorders. Honeycutt also presented a proposal, on behalf of Harrington Investments. The proposal addressed “proxy access” at Monsanto, which is the process allowing shareholders to directly nominate a limited number of candidates to the Board of Directors. Currently, the existing board members alone select a sole slate of candidates for the board. The proposal garnered 53 percent of the vote, ending what Harrington Investments called “Soviet Bloc Style Voting at Monsanto.” It was a surprising victory. As Honeycutt described it: I felt an actual pat on my back and I turned and saw smiling faces. The shareholders had passed it! And they were smiling at me. Amazing! Astounding. I felt myself choke up and tears welled up in my eyes. I put my face in my hands and took a deep breath. I was overwhelmed with emotion. Even the Wall Street Journal had to admit that Honeycutt, representing MAA, had put Monsanto on the defensive. In his blog post, “Monsanto Shareholder Meeting Gets Heated,” Jacob Bunge wrote: The meeting at Monsanto’s St. Louis headquarters tested CEO Hugh Grant’s stated determination to more directly engage critics of large-scale agriculture and genetically modified crops. OCA and MAA weren’t the only
Re: [Biofuel] ASTM Ups FAME Tolerance, Helps Biodiesel for Jets | Domestic Fuel
So they will allow B .005 for jet fuel and this will open the door for more biofuels to be used in aviation? Tom -Original Message- From: Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com Sent: 2/4/2015 6:21 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] ASTM Ups FAME Tolerance, Helps Biodiesel for Jets | Domestic Fuel http://domesticfuel.com/2015/02/04/astm-ups-fame-tolerance-helps-biodiesel-for-jets/ ASTM Ups FAME Tolerance, Helps Biodiesel for Jets Posted on February 4, 2015 by John Davis A change in the amount of fatty acid methyl esters (FAME) allowed in jet fuel will open the door for more biodiesel to be used in aviation. This news release from ASTM, a group that sets quality standards for a number of items including fuels, says that revising the safety standard of the allowable cross-contamination of FAME in jet fuel from 5.0 parts per million to 50 parts per million under the Aviation Turbine Fuel Standard (ASTM D1655) will help get more biodiesel into aviation fuels without compromising safety. “The jet fuel specification keeps the aviation industry safe while adapting to the expanded presence of biofuels,” says ASTM member David J. Abdallah, Exxon Mobil Research and Engineering. “In fact, no discernible negative impact on jet fuel product quality was observed with up to 400 ppm of biodiesel.” Abdallah noted that a potential future revision could further increase the standard to allow 100 parts per million. ASTM D1655 was developed by ASTM Subcommittee D02.J0 on Aviation Fuels and D02.J0.01 on Jet Fuel Specifications, part of Committee D02 on Petroleum Products, Liquid Fuels and Lubricants. ASTM used information from the EI-JIP Report, Joint Industry Project: Seeking original equipment manufacturer (OEM) approvals for 100 mg/kg fatty acid methyl ester (FAME) in aviation turbine fuel as the basis for the change. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
Years ago I read that vehicles owned by New York State (U.S.) and operated on the New York State Thruway used either ethanol or methanol depending on availability. However, the manual for my flex fuel Ford Ranger warns against the use of methanol. A few years ago I asked the list if I could use homebrewed ethanol that was denatured with methanol (98:2 ratio) and was advised against it. How did Jan put it? Methanol is like ethanol only more so. Synthetic rubber seals and fuel lines hold up to ethanol, maybe not so well to methanol. Tom -Original Message- From: Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com Sent: 11/26/2014 10:03 AM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel In Canada, it is illegal to produce ethanol for fuel without a federal permit, and these are effectively never granted to a home brewer. I have been pondering the idea of using methanol (wood alcohol) as an alternative to ethanol fuel, but have not taken the time to research it. Has somebody else already done this, and can save me the effort? My recollection is it is possible to use methanol as a motor fuel, which is supported by this document. https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/20_2_PHILADELPHIA_04-75_0059.pdf I know that during the war years (1939 to 1945), a number of people ran engines on wood gas (the images of large gas bladders on vehicle roof racks come easily to mind). I do have access to wood waste and fruit waste material, but working space is at a premium. Also, the processes I see seem to be based on having process heat available (e.g., for pyrolysis). However, I don't think I need a lot - our third vehicle travels about 400 km a month, and I figure the methanol will only displace about 20 litres a month of gasoline at a maximum, probably less. I can buy methanol commercially, but in small quantities (retail), it is more expensive than gasoline. However, could be an option for experimentation in the vehicle before committing to home production. I also have not yet investigated regulatory and safety issues, but expect the latter to be manageable. Thoughts, experience, pointers to relevant experience or information? ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
What is it about the number of hydrogens per molecule that intrigues you? Methane: CH4, Methanol: CH3OH both have 4 H's per molecule, as would Methanoic Acid. Ethane: C2H6, Ethanol: C2H5OH each have 6 H's per molecule. Is there something about the number 4 itself, or is it the number of H's per Carbon atom? Methane: 4:1 vs Ethane: 3:1 with a decreasing ratio as we increase the size of the carbon chain. Just wondering, Tom -Original Message- From: John Jaser j...@jaser.net Sent: 11/26/2014 12:58 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel Methanol is super intriguing… the amount of hydrogen per molecule. From: Darryl McMahon Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:06 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Jan, thanks for the quick response. Not scaring me off. I have read something which suggests adding methanol to gasoline has some potentially beneficial combustion effects. Lower energy content was known and accepted. I generally use synthetic lubricating oils anyway - better lube properties, longer life. Don't know what the implications of methanol use are on synthetic lubrication oils. So, still curious. Not a front-burner issue for me. So 3 lines of research at this point. 1) what are enviro pros/cons of using home-brew wood alcohol (methanol) as gasoline substitute - mixed fuel 2) what are the consequences for engine life, performance? Engine will not be optimized to methanol, but will be using a methanol-gasoline blend. I understand the fuel computer on the 2002 Astro van will adjust automatically to up to 50% ethanol blend (but have found nothing so far regarding methanol blend). I am assuming the fuel computer is working on oxygen and fuel energy ratios, and won't distinguish between ethanol and methanol. 3) what does the home-brew operation entail? (if it is not based on a sustainable biomass feedstock, then I'm not interested in pursuing it) Many other projects have higher priority for me at this point. I'll keep researching as time permits. Darryl On 26/11/2014 10:27 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Darryl, methanol is already used as motor fuel in Indy Car and Speedway. Metanol is similar to ethanol, but more. It means that of all properties that ethanol has, methanol has more of them. Methanol is slightly more corrosive than water and has an oxygene content of 50% by weight. The flash point is slightly lower than for ethanol. Incomplete combustion of methanol generates formaldehyde and other toxic substances. It is also known that methanol can cause wear in excess in connection with the motor oil , unless the oil is specially suited for methanol. Your vehicle will consume double the amount of fuel compared to gasoline and cold starts will be very difficult unless you add some gasoline to the metanol fuel. However, you can expect a very high fuel effiency if your motor is fully adapted to the methanol fuel. That is the brief version, I also have designed a method for purification of sulfate methanol (derived from paper pulping) but that technology is currently classfied due to pending patent. I hope this information did not scar you off, but increased your curiosity. Best Jan Warnqvisr -Ursprungligt meddelande- From: Darryl McMahon Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:03 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel In Canada, it is illegal to produce ethanol for fuel without a federal permit, and these are effectively never granted to a home brewer. I have been pondering the idea of using methanol (wood alcohol) as an alternative to ethanol fuel, but have not taken the time to research it. Has somebody else already done this, and can save me the effort? My recollection is it is possible to use methanol as a motor fuel, which is supported by this document. https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/20_2_PHILADELPHIA_04-75_0059.pdf I know that during the war years (1939 to 1945), a number of people ran engines on wood gas (the images of large gas bladders on vehicle roof racks come easily to mind). I do have access to wood waste and fruit waste material, but working space is at a premium. Also, the processes I see seem to be based on having process heat available (e.g., for pyrolysis). However, I don't think I need a lot - our third vehicle travels about 400 km a month, and I figure the methanol will only displace about 20 litres a month of gasoline at a maximum, probably less. I can buy methanol commercially, but in small quantities (retail), it is more expensive than gasoline. However, could be an option for experimentation in the vehicle before committing to home production. I also have not yet investigated regulatory and safety issues, but expect
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
Aaah, methane is intriguing. Biogas is a metabolic product of one of the most ancient life forms, the methanocreatrices. Anaerobic chemoautotrophic bacteria so different from others that many would assign them to their own kingdom. As to methane being easily transported consider where propane and natural gas can be compressed to liquids, greatly increasing energy density, methane resists liquefaction, requiring tremendous pressure. This seems to be the fly in the ointment. Unliquefied, a tankful of methane doesn't go far. Methane has value as a renewable fuel. It is captured and used at waste treatment plants to generate electricity. Methane is currently being captured at landfills and used to generate electricity. I know of a dairy farm that harvests methane from the manure the cows produce. They use the methane to generate electricity. The heat from the generators heats the water used to sanitize the milking area. They don't use the methane in their cars or farm machinery however. Relatively safe.Hmmm Methane is a potent greenhouse gas. Ocean burps from vast storehouses of methyl hydrates/clathrates have been credited with contributing significantly to the end of the last ice age. The release of methane from thawing peat bogs is a part of the cascade of events that is accelerating global warming. Gasoline was once considered a waste product of oil refining, dumped into rivers. When it was pointed out that it could replace ethanol as fuel for internal combustion engines the waste became valuable. Imagine what might happen if methane gas presented the same financial opportunities by its use as vehicle fuel a renewable fuel. Do we dare the oil giants to tap the vast stores of methane currently trapped safely under the ocean? It's already being proposed. They can do it safely, right? Have you seen the data about leakage from pipelines compressed gases seem to find their way out. Not so good in the case of methane. Capturing methane at its source and using it close to where it's produced to generate electricity seems appropriate. Sorry to carry on, but you did say methane was intriguing. Best, Tom -Original Message- From: John Jaser j...@jaser.net Sent: 11/26/2014 2:50 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel Hi Tom: Sorry should have added the context. Intriguing as perhaps a better common denominator than hydrogen itself. e.g. can be easily transported; can be made from biogas; can power a fuel cell directly or indirectly; relatively safe From: Tom Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:49 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org What is it about the number of hydrogens per molecule that intrigues you? Methane: CH4, Methanol: CH3OH both have 4 H's per molecule, as would Methanoic Acid. Ethane: C2H6, Ethanol: C2H5OH each have 6 H's per molecule. Is there something about the number 4 itself, or is it the number of H's per Carbon atom? Methane: 4:1 vs Ethane: 3:1 with a decreasing ratio as we increase the size of the carbon chain. Just wondering, Tom -Original Message- From: John Jaser j...@jaser.net Sent: 11/26/2014 12:58 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel Methanol is super intriguing… the amount of hydrogen per molecule. From: Darryl McMahon Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:06 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Jan, thanks for the quick response. Not scaring me off. I have read something which suggests adding methanol to gasoline has some potentially beneficial combustion effects. Lower energy content was known and accepted. I generally use synthetic lubricating oils anyway - better lube properties, longer life. Don't know what the implications of methanol use are on synthetic lubrication oils. So, still curious. Not a front-burner issue for me. So 3 lines of research at this point. 1) what are enviro pros/cons of using home-brew wood alcohol (methanol) as gasoline substitute - mixed fuel 2) what are the consequences for engine life, performance? Engine will not be optimized to methanol, but will be using a methanol-gasoline blend. I understand the fuel computer on the 2002 Astro van will adjust automatically to up to 50% ethanol blend (but have found nothing so far regarding methanol blend). I am assuming the fuel computer is working on oxygen and fuel energy ratios, and won't distinguish between ethanol and methanol. 3) what does the home-brew operation entail? (if it is not based on a sustainable biomass feedstock, then I'm not interested in pursuing it) Many other projects have higher priority for me at this point. I'll keep researching
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Compatibility
Robert, Thanks for the reply. Mechanics is not my strong point. David Blume explains the steps required to convert engines with carburetors to run on ethanol (Alcohol Can Be A Gas pp364-374) but once converted the engine will run well on ethanol but not on gasoline. -Original Message- From: robert and benita rabello rabe...@shaw.ca Sent: 7/29/2014 9:01 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Compatibility On 7/29/2014 2:55 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Will a phantom system and/or Megasquirt adjust on the fly to varying ethanol concentrations? (E0 through E100) No, I don't believe so. That's where the factory flex fuel system really shines. Robert Luis Rabello Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ceremonies and Celebrations video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV3k-s_sg1Q Meet the People video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txsCdh1hZ6c Crisis video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZedNEXhTn4 The Long Journey video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy4muxaksgk This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7945 - Release Date: 07/29/14 ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Dear all...
Your news feeds enlighten my life. Please continue them. Thanks, Tom I would also like to be included, Thanks Keith, Deborah On Oct 13, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Josephine Wee wrote: Hi. Keith. Count me in, too. Many thanks. Josephine - Forwarded Message - From: Tyler Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dear all... Keith, I'm not sure how to let you know offlist, but I am happy to say this publicly: I have been silently lurking for years and consider your news snippets one of my best sources for real news, and have a great deal of respect for the work that you do and the community you have run -- it has put me on to paths I would not have otherwise got on and I'm glad of it. Count me in, too. -Tyler -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bob Molloy Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:53 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dear all... Hi Keith, Count me in. Regards, Bob. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2012 4:27 a.m. To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Dear all... It's October, the list is going to run out of time soon and the host service will close it down. I'm not sure of the exact date, but suddenly the music will stop. The new community I mentioned previously is still some way down the road, but it will eventually happen. When it does, you'll be hearing from me. Meanwhile, the list will stop, but I won't. I'll keep harvesting the news, I do it anyway. If any list members would like to keep receiving these daily snippets, I don't mind sending them direct. Please let me know - offlist please. All best, and a very big thanks for everything, over the years. This list has taught me so much (deep bow). Regards to all. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20121013/49f4d34c/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Topic Morphing was Fuel grade ethanol
Apologies if I'm out of line. Would it be better if, when one wants to change one topic to an entirely different topic Ex Thread on Fuel Grade Ethanol to an entirely different topic, Ex Biodiesel from Algae, they would change the title in the subject? Yesterday I searched the list archives www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org Once again I found them to be more valuable than google-land. The only problem encountered was when I followed a lead, only to find that the content did not match the subject (Heading). Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Christopher Morris Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 6:47 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol Hey Keith, I'm sorry, but I can't buy into this. Even on a small scale algae will out produce anything out there. Even if it's harder to do at the beginning; it can actually solve this problem. I can't see any good reason to go for another crop that really doesn't have a chance to do it. I mean with palm oil, you'd need close to 2 million acres just to fill the order you had a few weeks ago, and that's only a portion of a portion of a portion of what we need. Right now, (if I can get the permits, which I might have to move to another county, we'll see.) My scale will be just under the small scale limits leading into commercial production. Of course this will be dependent on gaining the proficiency of growing algae. When I get the experience under my belt, I'm hoping for a strand that will produce 40% oil. It will easily outstrip any crop out there. And they're not extremely expensive $30-70 for the culture. The difficulty is really in getting to optimum growth rate. The rest of the business is the technicals of making the oil. So please don't try to kill algae; it is probably one of the only crops that will be able to fill the demand we need. I think it's a lot easier to grow when you understand the properties of it. The opportunity that it presents makes it less a dream and a little closer to reality of us being independent. I appreciate the links, was just looking for anyone out there that have found some things along the way. And I'm not discounting the manual at all; just always learning. On Mar 31, 2011, at 5:30 PM, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Christopher Does anyone have any tips about the production of b100 using ethanol from wvo and/or algae? I already told you this: There's no such thing as biodiesel from algae apart from a few lab samples. When it does eventually emerge it will almost certainly be on the industrial scale, most likely using patented bio-engineered strains of algae. Not for backyarders. I believe ethanol will be the best bet for me b/c of cost and danger/ regulations, even though it's harder to work with. http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#ethylester Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel This is the first thing it says: 1. Get plenty of experience making biodiesel with methanol before you try it with ethanol. You're starting in the wrong place. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Follow the instructions, step by step. Forget anything else you've read. Study everything on that page and the next page and at the links in the text. It tells you everything you need to know. It's not just us who say so, it's largely the result of a collaborative effort over 10 years involving thousands of people worldwide, it's what works. Keith Addison All the tips will be much much appreciated, especially for the times I don't have pitfalls! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
Anyone interested in the compatibility of hydrated ethanol with gasoline might want to look at Figure 14-14 on p 357 of David Blume's Alcohol Can Be A Gas. The figure is entitled Fuel Compatibility Among Water, Ethanol, and Gasoline. It is a diagram produced by the Society of Automotive Engineers. It indicates that: - at about 68F (20C), alcohol with as much as 45% water will mix with gasoline and NOT separate. - 80% ethanol:20% water will not separate from gasoline down to about 14F (-10C) - at 4% water, alcohol will form a stable mix with gasoline down to about 122F (-38C) Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Flex Fuel Ford Ranger and methanol
In an earlier post I asked about using a methanol/ethanol blend in my flex fuel Ford Ranger. It has been brought to my attention that Ford recommends against such a blend: Do not use fuel containing methanol. It can damage critical fuel systems components. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
On March 30, 2011 5:05 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You do not need to denature unless you sell the ethanol. This has nothing
to do with the permit process.
For anyone interested in knowing the facts about the regs and permit
process for distilling fuel alcohol in the United States go to
http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/alcoholfuel_regs_laws.shtml
This site is maintained by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, a
division of the U.S. Dept of Treasury. Here one can access the regulations
relating to production of fuel alcohol, get help with the permit process and
even apply for a permit online.
Ex: Under Laws 26 U.S.C. 5181, Distilled Spirits for Fuel Use we find:
TITLE 26--INTERNAL REVENUE CODE
Subtitle E--Alcohol, Tobacco, and Certain Other Excise Taxes
CHAPTER 51--DISTILLED SPIRITS, WINES, AND BEER
Subchapter B--Qualification Requirements for Distilled Spirits Plants
Sec. 5181. Distilled spirits for fuel use
{snip}
(2) Rendering unfit for use
For protection of the revenue and under such regulations as the
Secretary may prescribe, distilled spirits produced under this
section shall, before withdrawal from the bonded premises of a
distilled spirits plant, be rendered unfit for beverage use by the
addition of substances which will not impair the quality of the
spirits for fuel use.
Ex. If we go to Regulations
27 CFR Part 19, Subpart Y, Distilled Spirits for Fuel Use
§ 19.907 Meaning of terms.
We find the definition of Fuel alcohol: Distilled spirits which have been
rendered unfit for beverage use at an alcohol fuel plant as provided in this
subpart.
I'll be the first (?) to admit that reading through the regs relating
to distilling fuel grade alcohol is tedious and time-consuming, that is
where the actual regs are to be found.
Tom
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:05 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
You do not need to denature unless you sell the ethanol. This has nothing to
do with the permit process.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 30, 2011, at 13:16, Dave Hajoglou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tom Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
In order to get a permit to distill fuel grade ethanol in the United
States it must be denatured. The recommended method is to add 2 gallons
of
unleaded gasoline to 98 gallons of ethanol. The problem for the home
brewer
is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. A
solution to water in the tank is to add dry gas (methanol).
My questions are:
-Would it be unwise to denature fuel grade ethanol with methanol
and then used in a Flex Fuel vehicle such as a '99 Ford Ranger? (3.0L
Flex
Fuel version). The water issue would be eliminated.
-Any problems running a Flex Fuel vehicle on blends of ethanol,
gasoline, and methanol?
I'd skip the recommended method and go with a drop of gas to your
100 gal of ethanol. So long as you don't drink it, serve it to your
friends, or boast that you can produce some fine moonshine you should
be ok. (should). I have no ideas about the methanol mix.
-hojo
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Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
Terry, Let me start by thanking you. I (Tom) posted the info in question i.e.: The problem for the home brewer is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. Where did you get any of this information from? (You asked) 1. The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel by S.W. Mathewson Ten Speed Press © Copyright 1980 J.A. Diaz Publications Alcohol blends do have one relatively minor drawback. The presence of even small amounts of water in the blend will cause a portion of the alcohol and gasoline to separate. At room temperature, less than 1% water can do the damage. As the temperature is lowered, amounts as small as 0.01% can cause separation. 2. http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id28.html But the only kind of alcohol which will mix with gasoline (petrol) is 100% (200 proof) ethanol. If you have any water content in your home-made ethanol, it will separate out once you mix it with petrol. 3. I also went to the list archives Search Hydrous Gasohol ... the consensus seemed to support my belief. Then I found that you may well be right. There's an interesting exchange that includes science as opposed to speculation and opinion. Ken Provost suggested googling ternary phase diagrams ethanol water gasoline. (see concluding post below) At 68F (20C) ethanol/gasoline blends with concentrations above 70% ethanol hold water. E85 should work fine even if the ethanol is 5 or even 10% water. The post: Re: [biofuel] Re: Extracting alcohol instead of distilling? Ken Provost 23 Aug 2004 19:39:53 - The diagram suggests that I can accomodate about 2% to 5% water in ethanol and blend it with gasoline without separation at 21 deg. C. Yes, if you want to use mostly gasoline -- I personally like that big clear area at the top of the diagram, say, around 80% ethanol, 10% water, and 10% gasoline. You'd still have to distill the alcohol to get that high, but a simple still (no fractionation or mol. sieve req'd) would do it. Of course, at those percentages, why bother with the gasoline at all? -K Thanks Terry, Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Terry Wilhelm Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:30 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol The emails were clipped. So I am not sure if this came from Dave or Tom. Sorry to maybe have it crossed. --- On Wed, 3/30/11, Terry Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Terry Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 6:22 PM Dave, I had to come back to this email to ask you a few questions about your post. 1. Where did you get any of this information from? 2. What are you talking about, The problem for the home brewer is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. Where did you get this info? Have you tried this and saw it happen? I have mixed hundreds of gallons of ethanol (150 - 190 proof) with various ratios to gasoline. I have let several set in a test tube jar so that marked levels can be watched. The only thing that I can say that we saw was the gasoline evaporating. Methanol - there is a reason that this is not used for the general public. Its not friendly on your hands, your fuel system, but mostly, the air/fuel is way off. Regards, Terry Wilhelm The Revenoor Company --- On Wed, 3/30/11, Dave Hajoglou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dave Hajoglou [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 1:16 PM On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tom Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In order to get a permit to distill fuel grade ethanol in the United States it must be denatured. The recommended method is to add 2 gallons of unleaded gasoline to 98 gallons of ethanol. The problem for the home brewer is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. A solution to water in the tank is to add dry gas (methanol). My questions are: -Would it be unwise to denature fuel grade ethanol with methanol and then used in a Flex Fuel vehicle such as a '99 Ford Ranger? (3.0L Flex Fuel version). The water issue would be eliminated. -Any problems running a Flex Fuel vehicle on blends of ethanol, gasoline, and methanol? I'd skip the recommended method and go with a drop of gas to your 100 gal of ethanol. So long as you don't drink it, serve it to your friends, or boast that you can produce some fine moonshine you should be ok. (should). I have no ideas about the methanol mix. -hojo ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey
[Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
In order to get a permit to distill fuel grade ethanol in the United States it must be denatured. The recommended method is to add 2 gallons of unleaded gasoline to 98 gallons of ethanol. The problem for the home brewer is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. A solution to water in the tank is to add dry gas (methanol). My questions are: -Would it be unwise to denature fuel grade ethanol with methanol and then used in a Flex Fuel vehicle such as a '99 Ford Ranger? (3.0L Flex Fuel version). The water issue would be eliminated. -Any problems running a Flex Fuel vehicle on blends of ethanol, gasoline, and methanol? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
Hi Joe, I had read that flex fuel vehicles can run on ethanol, unleaded gasoline or any blend of the two. Flex-fuel engines are capable of burning any proportion of the resulting blend in the combustion chamber as fuel injection and spark timing are adjusted automatically according to the actual blend detected by electronic sensors. (Wikipedia) By the truck's fuel filler neck it says Ethanol Fuel or Unleaded Gasoline. Page 176 of the owner's manual says FFV fuel tanks may contain zero to 85 percent or more of ethanol (100%???). Any fuel blends containing gasoline and ethanol should be treated the same as 'Fuel Ethanol (E85)'. As I understand it, the unleaded gasoline (15% by volume) is to help with cold starts and to eliminate rough idling during warm up. In the United States, New York State and California had (still has?) state-owned vehicles that run on alcohol. The New York State Thruway Authority's vehicles could use either ethanol, methanol, or a blend. Whether the alcohol was ethanol or methanol (or a blend) depended on where they filled up along the Thruway. California's alcohol vehicles, I am told, ran on methanol (cheap) but switched to U.S.-produced ethanol under Gov Schwarzenegger. This suggests that the technology exists so that a vehicle can run on different alcohols, unleaded gasoline or blends. Is the technology to be found in US-produced flex fuel vehicles? I'm concerned about material compatibility. JtF Biodiesel 101 warned about the dangers of methanol contamination over the long haul. An occasional bottle of dry gas is one thing, but running a vehicle continuously with methanol in the fuel can cause problems same problem with Flex Fuel cars or no? Thanks Joe; Good to hear from you, Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:47 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol Methanol is a little more corrosive than ethanol but at that dilution rate that might not be noticeable. The air fuel ratio is a little different but again not an issue at that dilution level. I'd say go ahead if you really want to denature it. Can your flex fuel ranger really burn 100% alcohol anyways? Isn't it expecting E85? Joe On 30/03/2011 4:16 PM, Dave Hajoglou wrote: On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tom Kelly[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In order to get a permit to distill fuel grade ethanol in the United States it must be denatured. The recommended method is to add 2 gallons of unleaded gasoline to 98 gallons of ethanol. The problem for the home brewer is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. A solution to water in the tank is to add dry gas (methanol). My questions are: -Would it be unwise to denature fuel grade ethanol with methanol and then used in a Flex Fuel vehicle such as a '99 Ford Ranger? (3.0L Flex Fuel version). The water issue would be eliminated. -Any problems running a Flex Fuel vehicle on blends of ethanol, gasoline, and methanol? I'd skip the recommended method and go with a drop of gas to your 100 gal of ethanol. So long as you don't drink it, serve it to your friends, or boast that you can produce some fine moonshine you should be ok. (should). I have no ideas about the methanol mix. -hojo ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
-It is illegal to distill ethanol in the United States w/o a permit. The regulations and permit application make it quite clear that the only fuel grade ethanol that does NOT have to be denatured is that which will be used in vehicles within the confines of the approved permitee's property. -Ethanol that is NOT denatured is considered beverage grade ethanol; a different topic. Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:05 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol You do not need to denature unless you sell the ethanol. This has nothing to do with the permit process. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 30, 2011, at 13:16, Dave Hajoglou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tom Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In order to get a permit to distill fuel grade ethanol in the United States it must be denatured. The recommended method is to add 2 gallons of unleaded gasoline to 98 gallons of ethanol. The problem for the home brewer is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. A solution to water in the tank is to add dry gas (methanol). My questions are: -Would it be unwise to denature fuel grade ethanol with methanol and then used in a Flex Fuel vehicle such as a '99 Ford Ranger? (3.0L Flex Fuel version). The water issue would be eliminated. -Any problems running a Flex Fuel vehicle on blends of ethanol, gasoline, and methanol? I'd skip the recommended method and go with a drop of gas to your 100 gal of ethanol. So long as you don't drink it, serve it to your friends, or boast that you can produce some fine moonshine you should be ok. (should). I have no ideas about the methanol mix. -hojo ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Paying for fire response service (was Alabama Town's Failed Pension..)
One element that serves to equalize the decision forces is the cost of insurance premiums. A homeowner who chose to opt-out by not paying the annual fee would face fire insurance cancellation, astronomical premiums or non-collection of damages upon investigation after an unprotected fire. If an institution (the bank) holds a mortgage on the house, it would require fire (and other) insurance which would require fire protection. Such forces serve to overwhelm the majority of people's potential decision to not support the local fire protection service. Common-good systems require participation by all affected parties. Withdrawal from a system is something that an adult might choose. Such decisions have real consequences. This scenario brings such consequences into clear focus. Tom Thiel USA On 30 Dec, 2010, at 7:55 PM, Dan Beukelman wrote: This is much better stated that what I said but means the same thing. Without funding by everyone, the service will fail. I live in South Dakota. Our community fire department (full time) provides ambulance and fire protection for the surrounding rural area, all of which is too small to pay for a fire department themselves in entirety. Some of these smaller communities have volunteer services which can be called up if there is a large disaster, but the first responders are our town fire department. One township wasn’t taxing themselves enough to pay their share for the service. They ran out of money between road maintenance and fire service costs. They faced the prospect of having no fire protection since they couldn’t pay for it. The town, had to decide if they would continue to provide the service for this township that didn’t have enough money, for free (which would, in fact, be penalizing everyone else who contributes for the service) and risk loosing other payers the same way, or cutting off service. Fortunately for us, cooler heads prevailed, the township residents decided to increase their own taxes, in the meantime the town fire department continued providing service, but kept the unpaid fee on the books, saying it would need to be paid, with interest. The township is now paying off their unpaid debt to the town, and collecting enough in taxes to continue to pay the appropriate costs for their residents. Had the town caved and collect less, or nothing, other townships would have wanted equal treatment. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl McMahon Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:22 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Paying for fire response service (was Alabama Town's Failed Pension..) I'm interested in the economic mechanism(s) at play here. (I'm sure I have my own political biases, but I'm trying to ignore them for the moment.) Let's consider this as sort of a poor-man's version of game theory. Let's assume I have a house, and I want to keep it intact. What measures can I take to protect it (in this case, specifically from fire)? I could build it out of fireproof materials. As almost nobody does this, I assume it is generally considered to be cost-prohibitive. I could build in a fire-suppression system. Having experienced an inundation in a past place of work, those come with their own disadvantages (there was no fire, just flooding, paper records and electronic equipment were destroyed just as effectively). I could 'outlaw' all points of ignition within the structure, and surrounding it to the extent of my control. I would have to rethink my current space and water heating systems, and have a serious debate with my wife regarding accent candle lighting and kerosene emergency lamps, matches and lighters. Actually, it would be more than that. So far, not particularly practical, economical or required by code. Large communities, with decades of practical experience, have not followed those paths, but instead put massive resources into staffing and supplying fire departments. We have significant public education programs regarding the use of smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detectors, basic fire prevention and to a lesser extent the acquisition, use and maintenance of fire extinguishers. I am assuming these are the result of rational expertise based on experience. Proceeding from the assumption that a fire-response service is a rational response to the threat of structure fires and related hazards to residents, it becomes necessary to fund that service. How to go about it, on a sustainable basis? Let's suppose a fire house includes 3 major trucks (pumper, ladder, utility/rescue), has a staff of roughly 30 (to support 7x24 response) and can reasonably service a radius of 8 km, with up to 8,000 structures. (I'm completely guessing here, but a quick search turned up a ratio of 1.5 firefighters per
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Working with the Worm Gang
Consider investigating Borate as a wood preservative. Salts of Boron are formulated for osmosis into wood leaving behind a sharp crystalline residue which kills organisms as they invade the wood. It leaches very little and is not chemically active. Brands such as Tim- bor, Bora-care, Board Defense and others all provide the same ingredient. It is mixed at 10% solution, best on green (undried) wood, but can be used on dry wood. Borate is also available as a solid plug (as Impel Rods) which dissolve only when wood moisture exceeds 18% which is when rot organisms would begin to thrive. In either case. Whether or not Borate is used, I suggest NO finish, neither linseed nor tung oil or other. Finishes only work when the surface can be dried by hand, sun or wind. A damp surface in contact with ground will stay wet. Finish will not help and may harm by keeping wet wood wetter during conditions when it might dry a little if unfinished. Another idea is to use a wood that is naturally rot resistant. Local wood guys will know what woods work in contact with soil. In the USA we use Redwood, Cedars, Black Locust, Mulberry, Osage Orange and others. It's fun to investigate and find these treasures. Good luck, Tom Thiel Northwind Timber On 17 May, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Randy Johnson wrote: Linseed oil will leave a hard coating on the exterior of the wood. Which is fine until it loosens and leaves the wood unprotected from the moisture. Tung oil will soak into the wood grain and become part of the material instead of a coating on the material. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:03:27 +0200 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Working with the Worm Gang Hi folks I'm making a worm compost box out of pine wood and am thinking of usiong linseed oil to help preserve the wood. Does anyone have a better idea? best James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP: 042010_5 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20100517/315ba4da/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Treated-wood woes - Watch out for pressure-treated products
Borates are readily available in much of the world and are turning up even in the USA. Search for Boracare, Board Defense or Tim-Bor. Also available as Impel Rods, a solid the size of a finger which is placed at the ground line, overhang, etc. and remains inert when the wood is dry and slowly dissolves if over 18% moisture content, supplying preservative only when / as needed. Note the Sodium Octoborate is effectively nearly chemically neutral; its fungicidal (etc.) action being a result of its micro-crystalline structure, which is small enough to osmose into the wood, especially if treated when green. Stuff that eats the treated wood dies by abrasion/laceration. Friendly agent. Tom Thiel On 17 Mar, 2009, at 1:46 AM, Dawie Coetzee wrote: It's a bit misleading lumping borates in with CCA and related treatments. The borate option is generally preferred on ecological grounds, as this item from the EPA indicates: http://www.epa.gov/oppad001/reregistration/cca/ borates.htm Furthermore, it has a fire-retardant effect. I don't know how available it is elsewhere, though, but it is a bit hard to find off-the-shelf here. Most building contractors have never heard of it; though I do know that the treatment is applied to cellulose-fibre pellet insulation, which is made from recycled paper. But glass-impregnated wood! though even that is better than the plastic planking which is marketed as eco-friendly because the plastic was already used for something else before being turned into planks. Best regards Dawie Coetzee From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 17 March, 2009 2:45:11 Subject: [Biofuel] Treated-wood woes - Watch out for pressure-treated products Treated-wood woes Watch out for pressure-treated products _http://www.newsreview.com/chico/Content?oid=925397_ (http://www.newsreview.com/chico/Content?oid=925397) By Lori Brown The right stuff Selecting building materials is vital to sustainable design because of the environmental impacts associated with processing and transportation. Actually seeing how products are made might make us reconsider using them in our green buildings and homes. Otto von Bismarck, a 19th-century aristocrat, once said, **The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they’ll sleep at night.** He*s right, but in my experience pressure-treated wood and particle board should be added to his list (although I’m glad I know the whole story). Pressure treatment is a chemical process in which wood is placed inside a closed cylinder. Vacuum and pressure are then applied to force preservatives into it. The chemicals help protect the wood from termites, other insects and fungal decay. Toxic treatment Pressure-treated lumber contains some of the most potent cancer agents, such as chromated copper arsenate, alkaline copper quat, micronized copper quat, copper azole and sodium borates. Classified as waterborne preservatives, these chemicals primarily are found in treated lumber used in residential, commercial and industrial structures. Chromated copper arsenate (CCA) contains chromium, copper and arsenic (yikes). The chemicals are what give treated lumber a green color, which goes to show that just because something is green doesn’ t make it good for the environment! When pressure-treated wood is exposed to the environment—or buried into the ground—it poses a threat to human health and the environment by allowing toxins to leach into the surrounding soil and water. Obviously, it should never be burned. More than 90 percent of outdoor wooden structures are made with pressure-treated wood. It is used frequently for fences, raised garden beds, formwork for patios, borders, mow strips, decks, picnic tables, pet houses and even children’s play equipment. In fact, nearly all wooden playground equipment has been treated with toxic chemicals. This is why it is highly recommended that children wash their hands thoroughly with soap and water after coming in contact with it. Other options Alternatives to pressure-treated wood depend on the project. The best for outdoor applications—such as decks and play sets—is to use redwood, which is more expensive but never needs sealing or staining. Redwood*s aesthetic appeal is undeniably greater than other lumber and building materials, and its resistance to decay and insects make it well worth the added expense. There are several recycled rubber and plastic garden borders on the market. For raised planters, you can use recycled wood and plastic lumber. Look for wood treated by TimberSIL, too. Instead of impregnating the lumber with a mix of nasty chemicals and heavy metals, this product is treated at very high heat
Re: [Biofuel] Viability of converting a vehicle to run straight Ethanol?
Joey, If you do not find direct information from the list participants, I suggest you look to Brazil. In the 1980s, they had many vehicles which ran on 100% ethanol including some fiats and GM vehicles. Good luck, Tom On 29 Jan, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Joey Baghodoughnuts wrote: I am getting ready to make the conversion for one of my vehicles to run straight Ethanol, not E-85 but 100% Ethanol. Has anyone successfully done this? I have a project car sitting around, a 1986 Chevy Camaro, with the 2.8L 6-cylinder Engine, and I have a supply of pure ethanol available. I know I need to either reconfigure the timing in the computer for the injectors, or I need to buy a unit with a time-delay to be able to make the fuel-air mixture a little richer due to ethanol burning with a lower energy coefficient. I know that I'll also have to add a secondary filter to the fuel line that's easily changed on the side of the road, due to the detergent effects of ethanol. Is there anything else anyone can think of that I should add to the list of work that I will have to do on this engine before it can safely burn Ethanol? I know that I'll be taking a performance hit on this as well, but I will eventually get to making other modifications to improve performance and hopefully get it back to what it was before the conversion. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Agrobacterium Morgellons Disease, A GM Connection?
Hi Mike What evidance do you have to support the notion that 'chemtrails' are somehow different then contrails? Tom Epp On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 11:51 PM, Mike Pelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On how it's spreading so fast, One thing I'd look towards, along with GM foods is, Chem trails? Not to be confused with 'contails' from a jet engine's heated exhaust and water vapors. Chemtrails stay up longer some times all day to disipate. Observe the clouds plus maybe some Googling for more info on Chemtrails. Mike Pelly Oly. WA. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 12:34 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Agrobacterium Morgellons Disease, A GM Connection? Chip Have you ever seen anybody with Morgellons Disease? I have been hearing about this for 4 years and it the stuff that nightmares are made out of, in my opinion. And now they know that it is on every continent on Earth plus that it is contagious. Do you think it is credible that GM foods could cause this? Morgellons - Coming Soon To A Loved One Near You? Morgellons is contagious. Evidence increasingly indicates that the propagation of Morgellons is enabled by a wide variety of environmental, mechanical, and human factors. Mosquitos, fleas, spiders and other biting insects also seem to have the frightening ability to transfer Morgellons to a new host. The most striking symptoms of Morgellons are lesions and coloured fibers growing out of them _http://www.rense.com/general80/morgg.htm_ (http://www.rense.com/general80/morgg.htm) Morgellons European Information Center New; Symtoms; What is it?; Resourses; Video; Photos; How To Contract; Symptoms, more.There are however several theories that try to explain what this disease is and how it is contracted. Lists all available theories. _http://www.morgellons.eu/_ (http://www.morgellons.eu/) The Morgellons Research Foundation (MRF) dedicated to finding the cause of an emerging infectious disease, which mimics scabies and lice. We refer to this infectious disease as Morgellons Disease Advocacy; Reserch; Symptoms; FAQ; Images; publications, more _http://morgellons.org/index.html_ (http://morgellons.org/index.html) MorgellonsUSA.com Photos, Videos, Petition, treatments, more _http://www.morgellonsusa.com/morgellonsusa.html_ (http://www.morgellonsusa.com/morgellonsusa.html) _http://www.morgellonsusa.com/_ (http://www.morgellonsusa.com/) CDC to Investigate Morgellons Mystery Sufferers Say Mysterious Colored Fibers Grow on Their Skin, Like Hair _http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Health/story?id=4142695_ (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Health/story?id=4142695) Charles E. Holman Foundation A Sourse For Morgellons Disease Information. _http://cherokeechas.com/_ (http://cherokeechas.com/) Morgellons Syndrome Truly lots of info.Infection or Delusion; History; Syndrome; Symptoms; Message Board; Videos; About the Fibers; Delusional Parasitosis; CDC; Research; Lyme Disease; Scabies; Site Map. _http://www.morgellons-disease-research.com/morgellons-syndrome.html_ (http://www.morgellons-disease-research.com/morgellons-syndrome.html) best wishes Shan ---Original Message--- From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Agrobacterium Morgellons Disease, A GM Connection? Sent: 29 Sep '08 12:20 Original very long and difficult to 'digest' post snipped. This stuff about Agrobacterium is just about the most disturbing stuff I've ever read in my life. And I've read some disturbing things. From the abstract: _http://www.pnas.org/content/98/4/1871.abstract_ (http://www.pnas.org/content/98/4/1871.abstract) (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences) Genetic transformation of HeLa cells by Agrobacterium Agrobacterium tumefaciens is a soil phytopathogen that elicits neoplastic growths on the host plant species. In nature, however, Agrobacterium also may encounter organisms belonging to other kingdoms such as insects and animals that feed on the infected plants. Can Agrobacterium, then, also infect animal cells? Here, we report that Agrobacterium attaches to and genetically transforms several types of human cells. In stably transformed HeLa cells, the integration event occurred at the right border of the tumor-inducing plasmid's transferred-DNA (T-DNA), suggesting bona fide T-DNA transfer and lending support to the notion that Agrobacterium transforms human cells by a mechanism similar to that which it uses for transformation of plants cells. Collectively, our results suggest that Agrobacterium can transport its T-DNA to human cells and integrate it into their genome. So, all that messing about with gmo crops
Re: [Biofuel] Some Farmers Now Protected Against Monsanto Lawsuits
Thanx Dawi, Can you explain what you mean by Corporations build nests for themselves thus, provoking the conditions they want by taking a calculatedly vociferous stance AGAINST those conditions.? Tom Epp On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Dawie Coetzee [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: The role of the villain can work for corporations as well as against them. If they can be sure they will ALWAYS be regarded as the villain they can predict the reaction to their actions with a lot of confidence. I believe this is of central strategic importance to them when it comes to manipulating government. It ought to be clear by now that large corporations thrive in a highly-regulated environment. That environment is most certain when it has popular support, which is best achieved by the illusion that measures are about limiting corporate abuse when they are in fact about maintaining corporate privilege. Corporations build nests for themselves thus, provoking the conditions they want by taking a calculatedly vociferous stance AGAINST those conditions. -Dawie - Original Message From: Tom Epp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, 29 September, 2008 19:49:42 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Some Farmers Now Protected Against Monsanto Lawsuits Why do some companies (like Monsanto) have such disregard for their reputation? It's so clear that greed drives this corporation, what benefits can come from this? Walmart acts this way too, and I don't see the benefits? It's almost like one day they just stopped caring. I suspect it will be the downfall of these companies. Tom Epp On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some Farmers Now Protected Against Monsanto Lawsuits _ http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/09/27/some-farmers-no w-protected-against-monsanto-lawsuits.aspx?source=nl_ ( http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/09/27/some-farmers-now-protected-against-mons anto-lawsuits.aspx?source=nl) Farmers with crops that become contaminated by patented genetically engineered (GE) seeds or pollen have been the target of harassing lawsuits brought by biotech patent holders, especially Monsanto. But a landmark piece of legislation protecting California's farmers from crippling lawsuits has passed through both legislative houses. AB 541 enacts protections against lawsuits brought against California farmers who have not been able to prevent the inevitable drift of GE pollen or seed onto their land. The bill also establishes a mandatory crop sampling protocol to prevent biotech companies investigating alleged violations from sampling crops without the explicit permission of the farmers who own the land. Sources: Organic Consumers Association August 31, 2008 _ http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_14436.cfm_ (http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_14436.cfm) Dr. Mercola's Comments: Imagine being a farmer who is trying to grow organic, non-genetically modified crops. Then imagine those crops being contaminated by a neighbor's GM crops, whose seeds or pollen have blown over onto your land. Then imagine Monsanto coming in and trying to SUE you for violating the patent they've placed on those seeds! That is outrageous! Only a desperately evil company like Monsanto would have the unbridled greed to pull something like that. What is most shocking, though, is that Monsanto' s practice of targeting farmers for patent infringement is common, and well planned out. It is not only the farmers whose crops have been contaminated by Monsanto's GM seeds that are being investigated, but also farmers accused of saving Monsanto's patented seeds to use the next year. Never mind that this is the way farmers have operated for generations; saving seeds from one year to the next makes sense financially and environmentally. Of course Monsanto saw it as a cut in their profits, so they began to patent their seeds. Since the 1980s, Monsanto has become the world leader in genetic modification of seeds and has won 674 biotechnology patents, more than any other company. But Monsanto is not only patenting their own GMO seeds. They have also succeeded in slapping patents on a huge number of crop seeds, patenting life forms for the first time -- without a vote of the people or Congress. Farmers who buy Monsanto's Roundup Ready seeds are required to sign an agreement promising not to save the seeds or sell them to other farmers (What if the farmer doesn't sign one? Not to worry, Monsanto has actually admitted to forging farmers' signatures on technology agreements if they didn't have one on file). The end result of the agreements? Farmers must buy new seeds every year, and they must buy them from Monsanto. Monsanto's
Re: [Biofuel] Some Farmers Now Protected Against Monsanto Lawsuits
Why do some companies (like Monsanto) have such disregard for their reputation? It's so clear that greed drives this corporation, what benefits can come from this? Walmart acts this way too, and I don't see the benefits? It's almost like one day they just stopped caring. I suspect it will be the downfall of these companies. Tom Epp On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 12:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some Farmers Now Protected Against Monsanto Lawsuits _ http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/09/27/some-farmers-no w-protected-against-monsanto-lawsuits.aspx?source=nl_ ( http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/09/27/some-farmers-now-protected-against-mons anto-lawsuits.aspx?source=nl) Farmers with crops that become contaminated by patented genetically engineered (GE) seeds or pollen have been the target of harassing lawsuits brought by biotech patent holders, especially Monsanto. But a landmark piece of legislation protecting California's farmers from crippling lawsuits has passed through both legislative houses. AB 541 enacts protections against lawsuits brought against California farmers who have not been able to prevent the inevitable drift of GE pollen or seed onto their land. The bill also establishes a mandatory crop sampling protocol to prevent biotech companies investigating alleged violations from sampling crops without the explicit permission of the farmers who own the land. Sources: Organic Consumers Association August 31, 2008 _ http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_14436.cfm_ (http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_14436.cfm) Dr. Mercola's Comments: Imagine being a farmer who is trying to grow organic, non-genetically modified crops. Then imagine those crops being contaminated by a neighbor's GM crops, whose seeds or pollen have blown over onto your land. Then imagine Monsanto coming in and trying to SUE you for violating the patent they've placed on those seeds! That is outrageous! Only a desperately evil company like Monsanto would have the unbridled greed to pull something like that. What is most shocking, though, is that Monsanto' s practice of targeting farmers for patent infringement is common, and well planned out. It is not only the farmers whose crops have been contaminated by Monsanto's GM seeds that are being investigated, but also farmers accused of saving Monsanto's patented seeds to use the next year. Never mind that this is the way farmers have operated for generations; saving seeds from one year to the next makes sense financially and environmentally. Of course Monsanto saw it as a cut in their profits, so they began to patent their seeds. Since the 1980s, Monsanto has become the world leader in genetic modification of seeds and has won 674 biotechnology patents, more than any other company. But Monsanto is not only patenting their own GMO seeds. They have also succeeded in slapping patents on a huge number of crop seeds, patenting life forms for the first time -- without a vote of the people or Congress. Farmers who buy Monsanto's Roundup Ready seeds are required to sign an agreement promising not to save the seeds or sell them to other farmers (What if the farmer doesn't sign one? Not to worry, Monsanto has actually admitted to forging farmers' signatures on technology agreements if they didn't have one on file). The end result of the agreements? Farmers must buy new seeds every year, and they must buy them from Monsanto. Monsanto's Seed Police How would Monsanto know if farmers were reusing their seeds? They've hired an army of private investigators and agents to do just that. It's difficult to say exactly how extensive this army of seed police actually is today, but as of 2005 Monsanto had 75 employees and a $10 million budget solely to investigate and prosecute farmers for patent infringement. Let's just say, for argument's sake, you were inclined to agree with Monsanto about their right to monitor their seeds. They have, after all, invested millions of dollars into these (typically toxic) genetically modified seeds, and they need to recover some of that money. Well, can anyone rationally say that a farmer is responsible for patent infringement if a seed blows onto his property? Of course not. And this is where the bill AB 541 will protect California's farmers from this type of harassment. I don't believe for one second, though, that Monsanto has any justification in any of these matters. They are slowly working to take control of the entire food supply, and this is not an exaggeration. Monsanto is considering using what's known as terminator technology on a wide-scale basis. These are seeds that have been genetically modified to self-destruct. In other words, the seeds (and the forthcoming crops) are sterile, which means farmers must buy them again
Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator
Hi Tom, Thank you so much for your post. We've been way back for 5 years and the decision tree is quite different from that of the plug in culture. Regarding refrigeration: it is a significant energy user and when watts are precious we take notice. My solution is quite simple in our cold climate of Northern New Hampshire USA where it is colder more than warmer than refrigeration temperatures. I put the refrigerator in an insulated cavity on an outside wall with vents (manually operated) to allow more and/or less access to outside air. The primary purpose of regulation was to keep the refrigerator from freezing. Since the refrigerator itself is also insulated, it averages temperatures over time and freezing has not been a problem, so vent operation is very minimal. In summer the (normal electric) refrigerator blows its waste heat (and noise) outside. Spring and Fall, the compressor sometimes comes on and works efficiently against cool outdoor temperatures. I'm installing a small chest freezer using same principles. I had ruled out a freezer due to excessive power consumption before the north wall concept. Small, personal innovation can produce satisfaction beyond savings. How nice that is. Tom Thiel On 10 Jan, 2008, at 9:47 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Hi Chip, You wrote: And yes, for the record, I am not a big fan of 'payback costs' when it comes to passive vs utility consumption. When the power goes out, passive systems continue to work. Some aspects of payback can be difficult to quantify or even anticipate. Gardening: Shovel $37 (US) Rake ($26) Pitchfork ($32) Hoe ($30) Small Hand Tools ($76) Seeds/Plants $__, etc. The experience of gardening; growing your own food: Priceless. While one could argue that vegetable gardening is profitable, what about flower gardens? What about people who grow fruits and vegetables and give most of them away w/o concern for payback period? Some things that are simply joyful ... as in full of joy. We take joy in doing them.. Some take joy in the little dollops of independence that we feel by producing our own food or by getting off the grid. I wouldn't know how to put a price on joy or independence. It certainly is an interesting refrigerator. When I see a creative idea/design implemented by human hands it takes on the qualities of art. Pouring a cold glass of milk from the interesting refrigerator . priceless. Not so much to jump on the question re; payback period for the refrigerator; it is a valid question. They did mention in the section Solar Electricity that they would have had to pay $30,000 to run wiring to their home. It might be that given their situation, the interesting refrigerator made perfect economical sense as well; another example of appropriate technology. Thanks for the original post Kirk. I've been playing around with some ideas for at least pre-heating water going to my boiler (heat hot water)using a solar collector and maybe even my woodstove, to lower the amount of fuel I use. Tom - Original Message - From: Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] interesting refrigerator John Mullan wrote: I've seen that before. Excellent idea. I wonder how much all that copper, insulation, etc. would cost (for purpose of payback period)? When calculating the 'payback period' be sure to deduct (or add) the cost of a couple of medium term power outages, as folks all across the mid-west have seen over the last few winters. And yes, for the record, I am not a big fan of 'payback costs' when it comes to passive vs utility consumption. When the power goes out, passive systems continue to work. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list
Re: [Biofuel] WVO in Diesel Generators
Regarding starting motors in our off-grid woodshop: we treat 1 horsepower motors as intermittent-use, starting and stopping them at will. Larger motors are paired with a 1 horsepower motor to start each machine. After it is up to speed, the main motor is turned on. This system reduces the start-loading of the large motors almost down to full load amp rating, and its elapsed time to less than a second, since the rotor is already spinning. If he has an inverter / battery system, the battery bank will charge variably as (headroom) power is available, reducing the light-load wet stacking potential in the system. I await the SVO discussion with great interest. Tom Thiel On 6 Jan, 2008, at 8:52 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote: Seems to me like an engine running an 8 hour shift would be ideal for SVO -- you'd have to start it on biodiesel till it got up to operating temperature, then just make sure the incoming SVO is as hot as you can get it -- 180F or higher. The schemes to just thin SVO with biodiesel and ethanol seem pretty risky. One thing to think about is wet stacking the generator depending on the loading of the shop -- many diesel generators cannot be run at less than 20% of full load, and if the generator is sized for starting large motors, it may not operate at this level consistently. Z On Jan 6, 2008 6:01 PM, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, On 9/25/06 Pagandai Pannirselvan wrote: The small co generation of electrical energy based on the bio diesel can make possible the use of pure used vegetable oil and also some e 5 porcent hydrated ethanol , making possible to lower the viscosity of used vegetable oil in deiesel engine, removing dependence with Conventional deisel. Thus the blend of used vegetable oil 70 percent, hyrated ethanol 10 percent and biodeisel 20 porcent can be used with less problem for motor maintainence in rural areas. I've recently been contacted by a former student who would like to generate his own electricity for his woodworking business. He is considering a diesel generator and asked about biodiesel. I suggested he look into using a BD/WVO blend rather than processing it all into BD, as he would be using about 3 gallons (11.4 L) per hour (120+ gal/week). 1. Does anyone have experience using a blend such as that suggested by Pagandai Pannirselvan in a diesel generator? 2. Hydrated ethanol: What % water would be tolerated? In the U.S. it is possible to get a permit to distill ethanol. Only that which leaves the premises must be denatured to prevent human consumption. 85-90% ethanol is do-able, and used on premises would not have to be denatured 3. Could E-85 be substituted for the hydrated ethanol? I've heard of commercial suppliers adding small amounts of gasoline to their diesel. Since the E-85 would only constitute 10% of the mix, the total gasoline would only be .15 X .10 = .0150 (1.5%) Thanks, Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080106/e76c540e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] diesel generator
Hi Zeke, If you calculate the relative power per wattage of single and three-phase motors, there will be a slight advantage to 3-phase. The value of 3-phase motors also extends to their better torque and start-load characteristics and lack of starting capacitor(s) to maintain. I would base my system on availability and overall usefulness rather than those relatively modest advantages of 3-phase motors. A single-phase, dual voltage (as in 240 / 120 volt in the USA) setup allows use of higher voltage for motors and the lower voltage for appliances and lighting. Single-phase inverters are the norm for converting stored Direct Current energy to useful Alternating Current power. You're on the right track to run your generator while running your motors. If you have inverters, they can augment the output of your generator to help with start-loads (up to 5 times the run-load of the motor). The battery bank can be charged by the excess generator power and by photovoltaic, wind, etc. at all times. In capturing generator heat, don't forget the waste heat of the exhust stream, harder to capture than the coolant heat, but about equal to it in power. Good luck with your project. Tom Thiel On 2 Jan, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Zeke Yewdall wrote: Are the three phase motors really more efficient? Or are they just lower amperage, but the same wattage? The formula for calculating three phase power, instead of being V*A*PF is V(line to line)*A*1.732*PF, I believe. Z On Jan 2, 2008 5:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Original message -- i want to set up a small diesel generator to run my milking parlor and use the engine heat to supply the hot water. Since the pumps and refrigeration are my biggest load, but are only on for a few hours a day, i was thinking a 3 phase generator would be better because the motors operate at about half the amperage and would reduce the size of the generator i need to run. I was thinking a 6/1 or a 12/2 lister diesel. the fuel consumption on these is about 2 liters per hour. I only need to run about 2 -1 hp motors and 1- 2hp for milking and cooling ,then i could run the generator to charge batteries for the house and help heat the house in the winter. Any suggestions? it just seems to easy to change out the motors to 3 phase and reduce the kw size of my generator. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hydropower doesn't count as clean Power
A precedent could be examined at Alloy, West Virginia, USA where Union Carbide built such a project in the New River Gorge many decades ago. At a loop of the New River considerable vertical drop (perhaps 1000 feet) was harnessed by boring a tunnel through the mountain ridge to rejoin the river several miles downstream. The outlet of the tunnel houses a turbine power plant. This plant has been operational for many decades, so those interested could gather facts regarding its cost per watt generated and various ecological considerations and outcomes. Such a project seems to have lower impacts than downstream dams and installations which adversely affect fish migration, create flooding of valleys, and introduce potential dangers from dam failure to toxic sedimentation. This project became feasible due to point of use generation for a large induction furnace to make technical metal alloys requiring clean firing. If, on the other hand, the power had to be transmitted long distances, the economic and ecological profiles would change considerably. Among those added costs would be intangibles such as environmental and health factors from transmission magnetic fields, disruption of backland ecosystems and the like. The assessments which make it to the light of day generally ignore large aspects of the complex equation of real costs to real benefits ratios. If all of the costs and impacts were accounted for, I think it unlikely that any large, centralized project could be honestly justified contrasted to distributed generation by low impact technologies such as photovoltaic and wind generation at point of use. On 17 Oct, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Terry Dyck wrote: Hi Fritz, Sorry for taking so long to get back to you and answering your questions. In BC the mountains are very high and there are rivers in these high mountains. I believe that it is possible to have some high river water diverted to a hole made in the mountain to create a drop for the water to create electricity. At the lower end of the mountain the water simply goes back to its original stream. Terry Dyck From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 08:23:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hydropower doesn't count as clean Power Hi Terry, and how do de get the Water on top of the mountain?? :)) But wont this water be missed in the river it belongs? Fritz - Original Message - From: Terry Dyck To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hydropower doesn't count as clean PowerHi Fritz, A new Hydro project in BC, Canada is being planned which does not involve a dam. The water will spill into a hole in the top of a mountain and produce a lot of electricity. The project will not interfere with fish or the forest. Only damage will be roads to the facility. Terry Dyck From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 08:47:12 -0400 Subject: [Biofuel] Hydropower doesn't count as clean Power Hi Keith and all, if one counts how sloppy Hydro-dams have been built here in Quebec,Valleys had been flooten with little clesn up before flooding!Whole eareas of Forest submerged (a lot of them also in BC),wich creates on top of the Methane also a high Mercury-pollution (via Tannin/zyanide),so the Government recomend only restrictet Fishconsumption! Fritz -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071006/cf5409a0/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archiv! es (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Have fun while connecting on Messenger! Click here to learn more. http://e ntertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071006/58346788/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071007/efba733e/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
[Biofuel] Trouble finding Jatropha seeds
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Re: [Biofuel] Smashing Capitalism
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Re: [Biofuel] The Case for the Electric Tractor
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Re: [Biofuel] Bloody outrage
Hi Mike and all, Folks in America can't have everything. There have to be priorities. You can have the most expensive military in the world chasing ghosts or you can have national healthcare. Now in Uruguay I pay some pretty heavy taxes but everyone has healthcare. My prescriptions are U$5.00 each. They cost 10 times that in the states but at least there I can get frisked by airport security and photographed by a multitude of hidden cameras for my taxes. Now that's value. :- Tom Irwin Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bloody outrage
I have no intention of leaving. From: "swalms" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Bloody outrageDate: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:42:14 -0700 So stay in Uruguay!Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Peak phosphorus and our food supply
Hi Doug, Phosphorus does cycle slowly in the environment. However, I don't think our soils are going to run out anytime soon. It becomes rather tightly bound in the humic acid component of topsoil. Hence it does not show up in most common soil tests. Green manures bring it out by feeding soil bacteria. Monocroppers will have a problem but organic ones should not. Tom Irwin From:Doug Woodard [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Peak phosphorus and our food supplyDate:Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:33:28 -0400 Be sure to read Bart's Editorial Notes at the end. The question of phosphorous is especially important since most soils seem to need added phosphorous to get the most benefit from nitrogen fixing plants (legumes such as clover and alfalfa) which have been the key to the post-medieval revolution in agricultural production and wealth. Teh necessity to conserve phosphorous has implications for the type of agriculture, implying organic methods to prevent the leaching away of minerals, and the return of human excremnt and its contents including phosphorous and nitrogen to the land. Especially in an energy-frugal future with limited resources for transportation, this suggests a pattern of human settlement more dispersed over the land. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario http://www.energybulletin.net/33164.html Published on 13 Aug 2007 by Energy Bulletin. Archived on 13 Aug 2007. Peak phosphorus by Patrick Déry and Bart Anderson Peak oil has made us aware that many of the resources on which civilization depends are limited. M. King Hubbert, a geophysicist for Shell Oil, found that oil production over time followed a curve that was roughly bell-shaped. He correctly predicted that oil production in the lower 48 states would peak in 1970. Other analysts following Hubbert's methods are predicting a peak in oil production early this century. The depletion analysis pioneered by Hubbert can be applied to other non-renewable resources. Analysts have looked at peak production for resouces such as natural gas, coal and uranium. In this paper, Patrick Déry applies Hubbert's methods to a very special non-renewable resource - phosphorus - a nutrient essential for agriculture. In the literature, estimates before we "run out" of phosphorus range from 50 to 130 years. This date is conveniently far enough in the future so that immediate action does not seem necessary. However, as we know from peak oil analysis, trouble begins not when we "run out" of a resource, but when production peaks. From that point onward, the resource becomes more difficult to extract and more expensive. Physicist Déry applied the technique of Hubbert Linearization to data available from the United States Geological Survey (USGS)[1] to phosphorus production in the following: The small Pacific island nation of Nauru, a former phosphate exporter. The United States, a major phosphate producer. The world. He tested Hubbert Linearization first on data from Nauru to see whether he could have predicted the year of its peak phosphate production in 1973. Satisfied with the results, he applied the method to United States and the world. He estimates that U.S. peak phosphorus occurred in 1988 and for the world in 1989. Phosphorus - its role and nature Phosphorus (chemical symbol P) is an element necessary for life. Because phosphorus is highly reactive, it does not naturally occur as a free element, but is instead bound up in phosphates. Phosphates typically occur in inorganic rocks. As farmers and gardeners know, phosphorus is one of the three major nutrients required for plant growth: nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K). Fertilizers are labelled for the amount of N-P-K they contain (for example 10-10-10). Most phosphorus is obtained from mining phosphate rock. Crude phosphate is now used in organic farming, whereas chemically treated forms such as superphosphate, triple superphosphate, or ammonium phosphates are used in non-organic farming. Philip H. Abelson writes in Science: The current major use of phosphate is in fertilizers. Growing crops remove it and other nutrients from the soil... Most of the world's farms do not have or do not receive adequate amounts of phosphate. Feeding the world's increasing population will accelerate the rate of depletion of phosphate reserves. and ...resources are limited, and phosphate is being dissipated. Future generations ultimately will face problems in obtaining enough to exist. It is sobering to note that phosphorus is often a limiting nutrient in natural ecosystems. That is, the supply of available phosphorus limits the size of the population possible in those ecosystems. More information: Understanding Phosphorus and its Use in Agriculture from the European Fertilizer Manufacturers Association. Phosphate Primer
Re: [Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farms
Hi Keith, I found Jay Hanson´s odiousness in the archives. Tom Irwin From: "Tom Irwin" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farmsDate: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 01:01:43 + Hello Keith, Your answer was good, I appreciate it.That's a first - I was aware that the Odum links I posted were atDieoff, but I hadn't considered Journey to Forever to be in the samebracket as the odious Jay Hanson, nor shall I. It's quite theopposite, in quite a lot of ways. Other than his pessimism, what is so odious about Jay Hanson? The oil depletion stuff seems right. The economic critique seems correct. Too survivalist, perhaps. I haven´t read most of what is there as yet. Small Farms Library - Journey to ForeverI´ve read extensively here and go there as a main reference point. Re mixed-use hedgerows, have you read Russell Smith?Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture by J. Russell Smith There is only a chapter or two on the website. It took a lot of searching to find an electronic copy but I eventually downloaded all of it. Also this:http://agroforestry.net/Agroforestry Net -- Agroforestry Information Resources Thanks, it looks great. Anyway, water, yes, first thing to look at, but you don't say muchabout the stream, where it rises, for instance. I don´t know where the stream rises. Topographic maps of Uruguay are hard to find and most other types lack such details. Walking it is difficult. Lots of hot fences and large bulls. Other than that I don't see a problem, if you have enough water fourhectares is plenty of land for your needs. You must be a climate optimist, Keith. I don´t think the folks who dig, sell and burn fossil fuels are going to stop as long as money can be made. It´s going to get very hot. I´m going to dig more ponds. If I´m wrong, I can add fish to the menu. Tom Irwin Messenger Café open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar MSN Toolbar Get it now! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farms
Hi Keith, I was hoping by asking a generic question with regard to farm size there might be the chance of an answer that I could use for my circumstance. Let me lay out the whole story instead. My land ( I wouldn´t call it a farm yet) is about 4 hectares. There is a tiny stream that in dry years goes dryin summer, according to the previous owner and neighbor. It splits the plot almost in half. I have two small ponds on one side of that stream that hold maybe 100,000 liters total. The land is flat with maybe a 1:100slope on either side of that stream. The land had been fallow for at least one season when I first purchased it two years ago. I haven´t touched the plot with the ponds at allso it has remained fallow. The other plot had soil that was grayish brown to gray in color. It was very hardand tended to be quite bricklike in summer. Friability and tilth seemed to be lacking. I had the entire plot diskedto chop up everything that was growing on it. Then I seeded with a mixture of red and white clover. After the clover set seed I disked it all again. Now I have a much more brownish soil that doesn´t clump up and turn to brick. The clover is regrowing along with whatever else will grow natuarally with it. From my reading on JTF, Dieoff and elsewhere I figure my family is going to need energy in some form and I want to grow my ownfruits, vegetables, and eventually animals.I do not live on the land yet, there are no buildings. That is why I was looking into permaculture design. I´m setting off about a seven meter perimeter to establish hedgerows that will include fuel, fruit andtimber trees, perennial herbs, and insectiary plants. I´m looking to plant about 300 to 400 olive trees of three different varieties.They will be very widely spaced to permit hand picking, and alternately grazing space or cropping between rows. But I´m worried about water. Gentle, all day rains occur occasionally But the shift seems to be toward 2, 4, and 8 hour violent thunderstorms followed by 3-6 weeks of nothing. The area has a historical rainfall of 110 cm per year on average but who knows how that will go with climate change. Three more ponds with a total capacity of 500,000 to 1,000,000 liters seem like it would be enough but I´m not sure. I´m fairly certain I can capture that much from the thunderstorms to use during the dry periods. I could make the ponds larger but that would mean forgoing turning them into cisterns if the climate goes really dry. I should be able to get 3000 liter of olive oil at maturity. That should be enough oil to pay the taxes, replenish toolsamd equipment, buy livestock, eat and make biodiesel for transport and generating electricity. I like the idea of permaculture with trees and perennials because it seems less labor and energy intensive. I´ve been deliberating other oilseed crops. That was where my question on Emergy came from. Any insights are helpful. Thank you. Tom Irwin 4zz57r From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farmsDate:Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:59:02 +0900 Hi Keff7ith and all, I was wondering if does anyone have any information or insight into H.T. Odum embodied energy calculations. Are they a valid way of comparing energy sources? Has anyone done any good work on using them for biofuel production on a small diverse farm? I saw some discussion of it in archives in 2001. Tom IrwinHello TomrMaybe I dron't understand it well enough, but it seems a bit superfluous.What's a small diverse farm? Answers I've heard range all the wayfrom a 100-acre farm (that allegedly wasn't big enough to be diverse,nor to earn a living) to our current case here, 700 square metres."Emergy" measures wouldn't be a lot of use in either of those twocases, I don't think.If it's really small and diverse probably the most important aspectis integration, and if you're good at that (patterns, in other words)you shouldn't need too much else. What are the values of a crop (orwhatever) within your system? Say potatoes - you grow them to eat? Toeat as well as sell? To eat, sell, for livestock to eat, as acleaning crop (see Newman Turner), as an energy crop (ethanol and/orbiogas)? And so on. Eg, geese will dig up potatoes themselves, eatthem raw (like apples) and manure the land while they're doing it.Chickens and ducks won't dig them up and won't eat them raw, but theyreally like them when they're boiled. (Chickens will clear a crop foryou though, down to bare land, and feed themselves in the doing, andmanure it for the next crop - just sow and mulch.)Direct by-products like the potato tops (haulms) can be valued on adescending scale: edible or not, can or can't be grazed by livestock,or fed to livestock, used for compost (how much bulk), or for mulch(how much bulk), plus possible energy use (separate). Potato topsdon't get a high rating, but it doesn't matter much in the case ofpotatoes;
Re: [Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farms
Hi Kirk, That might be worthwhile if I lived in a more developed country. I´d prefer to keep things as close to my homestead as possible. Transporting one oil to work with another does not make sense in my case.There might bea neighbor closeby to make a trade. I´ll look inyo it when the time comes. Thanks. Tom Irwin From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farmsDate:Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:24:07 -0700 (PDT) I would sell the olive oil and buy something cheaper like canola. Dont forget solar thermal for energy. Properly done it works well. http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/05/08/new-efforts-may-harness-sun-light/ http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/envhist/RenHist/3.solar2.html Meanwhile NASA cant match the efficacy of projects demonstrated a century ago. Solar pumping is in phase with water demand. KirkTom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Keith, I was hoping by asking a generic question with regard to farm size there might be the chance of an answer that I could use for my circumstance. Let me lay out the whole story instead. My land ( I wouldn´t call it a farm yet) is about 4 hectares. There is a tiny stream that in dry years goes dryin summer, according to the previous owner and neighbor. It splits the plot almost in half. I have two small ponds on one side of that stream that hold maybe 100,000 liters total. The land is flat with maybe a 1:100slope on either side of that stream. The land had been fallow for at least one season when I first purchased it two years ago. I haven´t touched the plot with the ponds at allso it has remained fallow. The other plot had soil that was grayish brown to gray in color. It was very hardand tended to be quite bricklike in summer. Friability and tilth seemed to be lacking. I had the entire plot diskedto chop up everything that was growing on it. Then I seeded with a mixture of red and white clover. After the clover set seed I disked it all again. Now I have a much more brownish soil that doesn´t clump up and turn to brick. The clover is regrowing along with whatever else will grow natuarally with it. From my reading on JTF, Dieoff and elsewhere I figure my family is going to need energy in some form and I want to grow my ownfruits, vegetables, and eventually animals.I do not live on the land yet, there are no buildings. That is why I was looking into permaculture design. I´m setting off about a seven meter perimeter to establish hedgerows that will include fuel, fruit andtimber trees, perennial herbs, and insectiary plants. I´m looking to plant about 300 to 400 olive trees of three different varieties.They will be very widely spaced to permit hand picking, and alternately grazing space or cropping between rows. But I´m worried about water. Gentle, all day rains occur occasionally But the shift seems to be toward 2, 4, and 8 hour violent thunderstorms followed by 3-6 weeks of nothing. The area has a historical rainfall of 110 cm per year on average but who knows how that will go with climate change. Three more ponds with a total capacity of 500,000 to 1,000,000 liters seem like it would be enough but I´m not sure. I´m fairly certain I can capture that much from the thunderstorms to use during the dry periods. I could make the ponds larger but that would mean forgoing turning them into cisterns if the climate goes really dry. I should be able to get 3000 liter of olive oil at maturity. That should be enough oil to pay the taxes, replenish toolsamd equipment, buy livestock, eat and make biodiesel for transport and generating electricity. I like the idea of permaculture with trees and perennials because it seems less labor and energy intensive. I´ve been deliberating other oilseed crops. That was where my question on Emergy came from. Any insights are helpful. Thank you. Tom Irwin 4zz57r From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farmsDate:Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:59:02 +0900 Hi Keff7ith and all, I was wondering if does anyone have any information or insight into H.T. Odum embodied energy calculations. Are they a valid way of comparing energy sources? Has anyone done any good work on using them for biofuel production on a small diverse farm? I saw some discussion of it in archives in 2001. Tom IrwinHello TomrMaybe I dron't understand it well enough, but it seems a bit superfluous.What's a small diverse farm? Answers I've heard range all the wayfrom a 100-acre farm (that allegedly wasn't big enough to be diverse,nor to earn a living) to our current case here, 700 square metres."Emergy" measures wouldn't be a lot of use in either of those twocases, I don't think.If it's really small and diverse probably the most important aspectis integration, and if you're good at that (patterns, in other words)you shouldn't nee
Re: [Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farms
Hello Keith, Your answer was good, I appreciate it.That's a first - I was aware that the Odum links I posted were atDieoff, but I hadn't considered Journey to Forever to be in the samebracket as the odious Jay Hanson, nor shall I. It's quite theopposite, in quite a lot of ways. Other than his pessimism, what is so odious about Jay Hanson? The oil depletion stuff seems right. The economic critique seems correct. Too survivalist, perhaps. I haven´t read most of what is there as yet. Small Farms Library - Journey to ForeverI´ve read extensively here and go there as a main reference point. Re mixed-use hedgerows, have you read Russell Smith?Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture by J. Russell Smith There is only a chapter or two on the website. It took a lot of searching to find an electronic copy but I eventually downloaded all of it. Also this:http://agroforestry.net/Agroforestry Net -- Agroforestry Information Resources Thanks, it looks great. Anyway, water, yes, first thing to look at, but you don't say muchabout the stream, where it rises, for instance. I don´t know where the stream rises. Topographic maps of Uruguay are hard to find and most other types lack such details. Walking it is difficult. Lots of hot fences and large bulls. Other than that I don't see a problem, if you have enough water fourhectares is plenty of land for your needs. You must be a climate optimist, Keith. I don´t think the folks who dig, sell and burn fossil fuels are going to stop as long as money can be made. It´s going to get very hot. I´m going to dig more ponds. If I´m wrong, I can add fish to the menu. Tom Irwin Messenger Café open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Proper intgration of Biofuels for small farms
Hi Keith and all, I was wondering if does anyone have any information or insight into H.T. Odum embodied energy calculations. Are they a valid way of comparing energy sources? Has anyone done any good work on using them for biofuel production on a smalldiverse farm? I saw some discussion of it in archives in 2001. Tom Irwin Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
Hi Chip and all, Marq De Villiers book ´Water, The fate of our most precious resource¨ was written in 2000. It seems to be a fairly well annoted source. A couple of key points he makes is that China was using groundwater to produce 70% of its harvest. Soils were salting up, water tables dropping and so the government there took land and thus water out of farming. The water not used was sent to industry since you could make 50 times the income from the water invested. Then they take the money made in industry and bought food. (and thus water) It seems unsustainable to me. If it takes 1000 cubic meters of water to produce a ton of grain then grain represents both soil nutrients, time and large amounts of water.Most of that grain will probably be purchased from unsustainable monoculture utilizing nonrenewable groundwater, and shipped using cheap oil. As this unravels, as it must, the world is in for a shock. That is why I´m worried. Tom Irwin From:Chip Mefford [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!Date:Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:56:09 -0400Doug Younker wrote: Peak Coal, Peak Oil, any guesses how long to Peak Water? From what I've read, 2022 to 2027, at currentrates. These figures don't take into account thatthe entire northern hemisphere is seeing decreased averageannual rainfall.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A Sudden Change of State
Hi Keith and all, I don´t know why George Monbiot is so shocked. There were many scientists that thought the IPCC report was very conservative when it was issued. My hands were shaking when the report did not include the thawing of permafrost areas and the potential to pump gigatons of methane into the atmosphere. And to think climate change is only one of several huge problems facing our world.Our children will face the human population peak, peak oil, and peak water usage (availability). Each on its own would be daunting to overcome. These will pretty much hit one generation. Will we educate enough people, especially women, to curb human population at 7.8 billion? Or will we see the disaster 9 billion will bring. Will we build anduse more rail lines and public transport? Will we curb our greed, consume less, and conserve more? Or will we suck down the lastportion of oilriding off on vacation or to more war and then move to more coal with all the pollution that implies? Will wemove willingly back to thefamily farm and lead a simpler but more thoughtful life? Or will industrial agriculture continue its devestation of our soils, seed stockand water supplies? Will we change our economic system from greedy capitalism to something that actually provides more than4 dollars a day to half the world´s population? There are a lot of smart people outthere so alternatives are possible. I guess it starts with our individual choices. Tom Irwin From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] A Sudden Change of StateDate:Sat, 7 Jul 2007 23:28:35 +0900http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/07/03/a-sudden-change-of-state/Monbiot.com »A Sudden Change of StatePosted July 3, 2007A new paper suggests we have been greatly underestimating the impactsof climate change - and the size of the necessary response.By George Monbiot. Published in the Guardian 3rd July 2007Reading a scientific paper on the train this weekend, I found, to myamazement, that my hands were shaking. This has never happened to mebefore, but nor have I ever read anything like it. Published by ateam led by James Hansen at Nasa, it suggests that the grim reportsissued by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change could beabsurdly optimistic(1).The IPCC predicts that sea levels could rise by as much as 59cm thiscentury(2). Hansen's paper argues that the slow melting of ice sheetsthe panel expects doesn't fit the data. The geological recordsuggests that ice at the poles does not melt in a gradual and linearfashion, but flips suddenly from one state to another. Whentemperatures increased to 2-3 degrees above today's level 3.5 millionyears ago, sea levels rose not by 59 centimetres but by 25 metres.The ice responded immediately to changes in temperature(3).We now have a pretty good idea of why ice sheets collapse. Thebuttresses that prevent them from sliding into the sea break up;meltwater trickles down to their base, causing them suddenly to slip;and pools of water form on the surface, making the ice darker so thatit absorbs more heat. These processes are already taking place inGreenland and West Antarctica.Rather than taking thousands of years to melt, as the IPCC predicts,Hansen and his team find it "implausible" that the expected warmingbefore 2100 "would permit a West Antarctic ice sheet of present sizeto survive even for a century." As well as drowning most of theworld's centres of population, a sudden disintegration could lead tomuch higher rises in global temperature, because less ice means lessheat reflected back into space. The new paper suggests that thetemperature could therefore be twice as sensitive to risinggreenhouse gases than the IPCC assumes. "Civilization developed,"Hansen writes, "during a period of unusual climate stability, theHolocene, now almost 12,000 years in duration. That period is aboutto end."(4)I looked up from the paper, almost expecting to see crowds stampedingthrough the streets. I saw people chatting outside a riverside pub.The other passengers on the train snoozed over their newspapers orplayed on their mobile phones. Unaware of the causes of our goodfortune, blissfully detached from their likely termination, we driftinto catastrophe.Or we are led there. A good source tells me that the Britishgovernment is well aware that its target for cutting carbon emissions- 60% by 2050 - is too little, too late, but that it will go nofurther for one reason: it fears losing the support of theConfederation of British Industry. Why this body is allowed to keepholding a gun to our heads has never been explained, but Gordon Brownhas just appointed Digby Jones, its former director-general, as aminister in the department responsible for energy policy. I don'tremember voting for him. There could be no clearer signal that thepublic interest is being drowned by corporate power.The government's energy programme, partly as
[Biofuel] How do you feed your poultry?
Hi Keith and all, I was wondering how the work on using poultry for sustainable gardening/farming was going. I am planning to begin stocking a few Muscovy ducks this spring. I saw Muscovies on the website. Do you provide housing or supplimental feeds? Do they just forage on their own. I have some young mulberry trees that I hope might feed them in a few years. I´m trying to integrate some permaculture/perenial shrub system with animals. Uruguay´s weather has become very unpredictable. It seems the speeding up of the water cycle is giving us alternating floods with drought. Any ideas or insights? Tom Irwin From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Time is running out to Save Raw Almonds!Date:Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:16:30 +0900Hi Dawie Keith has emphasized before that meaningful food production doesn't require huge tracts of land. It is amazing what can be done in very small spaces. Modern cities contain vast amounts of wasted land, but the resulting pattern is one that attracts too much moving about of people and stuff for non-food-production purposes. There's a vicious circle with too much roadway and parking generating an insatiable need for more roadway and parking. I'm proposing that urban areas become a lot tighter, though fragmented into smaller pockets, somewhat like the cities of medieval Europe, so that the greatest proportion of non-food-production functions are best supported by a pedestrian-based local economy. In practice, the typical "new-world" city should be steered to develop into twenty-odd (depending on the size of the city) "mini-cities" separated by farmland.Or interpenetrated by farmland, in many shapes and forms, butsometimes just plain farmland. Japanese cities have patches offarmland throughout, a small field here and there, some of them notso small, with occasional clumps of fields, they're everywhere. Notjust veggies, rice and soybeans and so on too. There are allotmentsas well. People don't notice them much but they produce a lot offood. There's still quite a lot of waste ground too, empty lots andall the usable bits and pieces of ground you start seeing around theplace when you begin to take some notice. A lot of that farmland is currently the supposedly decorative gardens of sprawling suburbs.And/or allotments and so on, and quite a lot of suburban folks raisesome vegetables. The more I get into it, though, the more I realise how much food can be produced even in the densely built city areas,There's room for it, once you start thinking that way you see it everywhere. especially in the upper-storey courtyards that result almost inevitably from the desire to use available space most effectively while maintaining decent daylight and ventilation. This applies as much to small livestock as to crops. I don't see cows being kept on rooftops. Cow-sized staircases would just consume too much space! But I do see small dairy operations within easy walking distance of city centres.It's amazing where people manage to keep poultry and pigs.Food for cities is not that big a problem eh? Mainly an attitudeproblem, and the attitude's changing.BestKeith Dawie - Original Message From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, 14 June, 2007 5:41:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Time is running out to Save Raw Almonds! hi Keith, you said "Large-scale animal and animal products production has no future and has a disgusting past without any merit. There is no place for "the industry". There is plenty of place for unpasteurised real milk and the healthy people who drink it." I agree, they are in it for the money (which we do need) with less regard for the environmental footprint, and lacking the passion to provide good food to the people. However, could you elaborate on the size of scale you are refering to in the above statement. I mean there are hundreds of millions of people who live in cities that cant farm or produce for themselves. Ultimately, in the end I believe the smaller and more localised the farm is to its consumption destination, the better. It reduces transport costs, packaging and ultimately energy demand. Individual small farms to produce food for themselves and the community is the best option if practiced responsibily with the social and environmental issues in mind. Having said this what are your thoughts for providing food to the cities. best Joshua Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Andres I am affraid the pasteurization process is necessary because to eat untreated foods is DANGEROUS for humans. Not true. Please see my previous reply and check the references there. The larger the production scale the higher the risk. True. The living parts of foods are oftenly poisonous for us like bacteria. Not necessarily so. Look at yo
Re: [Biofuel] Rooting without commercial rooting hormone
Hi Kirk and all, I suppose weeping willow will work. It´s a Salix. Is one better than another? Tom Irwin From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Rooting without commercial rooting hormoneDate:Tue, 1 May 2007 08:34:24 -0700 (PDT) http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesorg/msg0720433521555.html Posted by EireannE Dublin (My Page) on Wed, Mar 23, 05 at 21:08 Sorry about the long post, but perhaps I can shed some light on the topic. All plants contain the necessary hormones (IAA, NAA, and IBS) to root, otherwise how would they root in the first place? The only reason some cuttings are hard to root, or won't root at all on their own is because of the plants natural process of damage control, i.e. wound response. Abscisic Acid is a stress hormone that plants use to automatically dieback injured areas in response to wounding or disease such as occurs at the severed end of a cutting. Adding additional hormone to a cut stem to induce rooting is one method of counteracting this response, but essentially all you are doing is disinfecting the area while providing enough additional hormone to maybe (maybe not) develop more mass than the abscisic acid released during the wound response can cope with. Eventually, if you're successful, it's because you reach a point where the wounded area is either partially closed, and/or the root material has eclipsed it, and abscisic acid stops being produced. Why explain all this? Because there is another method (already mentioned) that works just as well without stressing the plant by forcing it to grow both more mass as well as fight the effects of abscisic acid, willow water. Someone already mentioned aspirin being the same thing, well it is and it isn't. Aspirin, which as we all know comes from the bark of the willow tree, does contain one of what appears to be two necessary/active ingredients in willow water for successful root incubation. This is Salicylic Acid. Salicylic acid is an abscisic acid inhibitor. That's to say, not only will it stop the affect of already present abscisic acid on wounds, but it stops the wound response and production of abscisic acid all together. On top of this it acts as an anti-coagulant keeping the fresh cut open and allowing the cutting to wick much needed water and nutrients during this vital stage. The second vital ingredient, a substance that you won't get from aspirin, is rhizocaline. A mysterious yet naturally occurring compound of what is thought to be vitamins B, H, boron, sugar and/or other nitrogenous minerals that act in conjunction with IAA, and IBS. Research has found that this is the key catalyst to promoting root formation. All plants contain and use it, but willow has such an abundance as to make it king of rhizocaline. If extracted and used properly, willow water can be the most effective way to produce rooted cuttings. There are many recipes for making it; leaving willow branches in water for 4 weeks to root; steeping 6 inch willow cuttings in cool water for 72 hours; or 1 inch cuttings for 24 hours; boiling the cuttings; mashing and splitting the cuttings and brewing them in bot recently boiled water. There are loads, and some of these may be more (or less) effective than others. But to get the real expert's advice, go to Dr. Makota Kawase who in the mid 1960's discovered rhizocaline by experimenting with willow and has been developing the process ever since. Dr. Kawase's advice: "cut current year's growth from any Salix species. Then, remove the leaves and cut into one inch pieces. Place these right side up (Eireann: direction is important since rhizocaline and IAA move polarly down the stem of any cutting) in a glass, add 1/2" of hot water, cover with a plastic bag and let sit 24 hours. Steep your cuttings in this for and additional 24 hours, and then place in the rooting medium with or without rooting hormone, as needed (Eireann: My suggestion is without). The willow water may be stored in the refrigerator and covered to prevent contamination, but is best used up within three days." Additionally Dr. Kawase encourages the use of etoilation in promoting rooting. Total darkness, he found, increased rooting "sharply" up to four days, which is three days faster than anything I ever did with store bought rooting hormone. The basal tips MUST be in darkness for rooting to occur. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN
[Biofuel] Termites
On 4 Mar, 2007, at 12:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send Biofuel mailing list submissions to biofuel@sustainablelists.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Biofuel digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use (Zeke Yewdall) 2. Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use (Zeke Yewdall) 3. Re: the 'Inconvenient Truth' (Fred Oliff) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 08:42:41 -0700 From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Anything that discourages natural ecological processes should be well considered before use. Here in the Northeast US, I have chosen to build with wood, often reclaimed from deconstruction operations; and I prefer my constructions to be resistant to termites, carpenter ants, fungi and other organisms that degrade wood. I also prefer to avoid chemical migration into my little corner of the biosphere. I have chosen to use Borates as a wood preservative strategy. Borates are derived from mineral Borax, ground and prepared for absorption into wood. The mineral itself seems to be quite benign, not chemically reactive. Its form however is a sharp micro-crystalline powder which is dissolved into water and absorbed by osmotic action into the wood. Most effectively applied on green (non-dry) wood by spray, dip or brush, but also effective to shallower penetrations on dry wood. Anything that eats the treated wood gets cut by the sharp crystals and dies. The borate penetrant does not form chemical bonds with the wood and is thus susceptible to leaching; but it is surprisingly persistent in the treated wood. Another form is a pressed cylinder of various sizes, set into a drilled hole in the wood in vulnerable locations such as ground-line or direct weather exposure. Generally looks like a cloudy glass slug the size of one's finger. These rods are self-regulating, remaining intact in moisture concentrations below 20% (where wood is quite resistant to microbial decay action) and slowly dissolving at greater than 20%mc. Borate technology is quite mature, being used by utility companies, etc. around the world for over half a century. The USA is a very late adopter having preferred seriously toxic industrial alternatives. A google search of borates generates considerable information including brand names such Impel Rods, Bora-care, Tim-Bor, etc. My research and personal experience find nearly identical products with very divergent pricing with Board-defense being a low cost champion. Handle with care, the powder is an irritant and the liquid will kill your gut bacteria. But on the bright side, there's no harmful fumes or outgassing. Tom Thiel Don't build from wood. Thats the only surefire method of keeping carpenter ants from eating your house in the northwest. Now, unlike termites, ants don't actually eat wood, as my grandpa delights in telling me. But they chew it up and turn beams into little piles of sawdust, so from a practical standpoint, they might as well. On 3/4/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, For what it's worth: Termites chew the plant matter, including wood, but it is the microbes in their gut that digest it. Termites, like all animals, lack the enzyme cellulase, needed to break down plant cell walls. As I understand it, the microbes are obligate anaerobes and are sensitive to O2. I've heard that high levels of O2 kill their endosymbiotic microbes and the termites then starve to death. I don't know if this is a practical means of eliminating termites or if it is done commercially. Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Termites - Re: Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Speaking of termites - any advice for a environmentally benign way to keep them under control? -Mike Keith Addison wrote: Hello Wendell snip By the way, I seem to recall that termites are the source of 20 percent of the world's methane. I am no entomologist --is there any known benefit to man or beast from termites? If not, let's get 'em! Right, let's kill them
Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use
Hi Kirk and all, When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man. Tom Irwin From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST) Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_worldid=5072659 Heated pools electronic gates gas lanterns in yard and $30,000 a year in utility bills. How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e? (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy. Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours. "If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules." Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent." Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it." A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon footprint on the website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/) The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green Power Switch program electricity generated through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero." These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates." The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an average of $536 a month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005. Bored stiff? Loosen up...Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinf
[Biofuel] Fwd: Herbal Garden Sprays
On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:43 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom At the top of the Digest it says: When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Biofuel digest... Nobody will read a message with the Subject Re: Biofuel Digest, Vol 22, Issue 74 and it will foul up archives searches forever. It should have read Re: Herbal Garden Sprays. Please change it and resend. Thankyou. Biofuel list administration From: Tom Thiel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Biofuel Digest, Vol 22, Issue 74 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:26:00 -0500 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 7. Re: Herbal Garden Sprays (Thomas Kelly) -- Keith quoted a USA Today article: WASHINGTON - It may be cold comfort during a frigid February, but last month was by far the hottest January ever for the planet. Here in New York State (US) we had temps in the 60s (F) and even reached 73F during Dec and January. I had built a small ice skating rink for my kids back in early November and had just about given up hope of teaching them to skate this year. The first measurable snowfall in New York City occurred on the14th or 15th of January. The previous record for late snow had been January 10th (1878). It has turned cold. The kids are skating and I am frantically trying to keep up with my oil-fired boiler's hunger for BD. I have a tool that was handed down from my grandfather died in 1958 to my father . died in 1976 to me. It has a heavy, broad blade with an oval hole through which the long handle fits. Like a hoe or like a shovel? It's like a hoe... I've seen grub hoes that are similar, but the blade on this one is about 9 - 10 inches across. It has a long, thick, curved handle. I can appreciate that Tom, I love using old tools that are made right and built to last and come to you with a heritage of other hands that used them before you, maybe they help to guide your hand in a way. I have quite a few of them, and we sort of inherited a whole bunch of well-used old tools when we came here, used by the old people in older times when things were different, not very long ago. This is comforting to hear. While I don't object to rototillers, shredders, and other machines that make work easier, I don't own them and, so far, don't need them. Something happens, occasionally, when I work with this particular hand tool that has been handed down from previous generations. Doing the same job, in the same manner, with the same tool . maybe the effects of fatigue?? but for a brief instant it is as if you have stepped into their shoes, or they into yours. It's a good feeling. Thanks for the compost tea recipe. I'll give it a try. It will give use to the aquarium pump and bubble stones I bought when I first started making BD. The seeds arrived today .. spring is just around the corner. Tom That tool might be a forest adz. Adzes generally are made of tool steel which is able to be sharpened enough to cut through tree roots, etc. when clearing new ground and to pry things from the ground when clearing. Handle holes are often square or rectangular without being firmly fixed. Handles of adzes are bigger at the work end than below the head like an axe.The head can be easily removed for sharpening by tapping the end of the handle on a rock allowing the head to slide down the handle. Tom Thiel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus
How about wastewater treatment plants taking their sludge and land applying it without composting. Yours is cleaner than theirs for certain. Tom Irwin From:"A. Lawrence" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humusDate:Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:43:28 -0800Witness composting toilets... are they not doing the same thing you are,albeit in a different manner??- Original Message -From: "Keith Addison" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:19 PMSubject: [Biofuel] Fwd: humanure to humus Can anyone help Tom? He's not a list member, but I'll refer him to any discussions here. Thanks! All best KeithFrom: "tom habasco" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: humanure to humus Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006Hello my name is Tom Habasco and I will be going into circuit court in order to defend my right to compost. I am the 5th generation of organic farming family.We have known of the benefits of this for many decades. Unfortunately the local health people tell me it is illegal for me to compost humanure, as it is explained by Joseph Jenkins in his book.Now they have a signed order which makes my home and lifestyle illegal . They say that there is no scientific proof that composting humanure works or that it is safe. I personally have been growing fruits and veggie's for the plate to eat for many years. In my defense I must say I have never become ill from my gardens. I have no illness whatsoever and take no medication for anything. How do we convince these youngsters at the so called "health dept's" that composting is safe and a much better approach to our handling of the environment than there septic approach? I need proof and support that you may have to fight for my right to own property live on that property, farm my small gardens " under half acre of gardens" and compost including humanure.If I fail at this I will be ordered off my property and my home will be moved away by them at my cost. This is not an option , that is why it is of the utmost importance that I seek help from like minded people like you to help[ support me and my decision to make a lifestyle change and help the earth by becoming less dependant on fossil fuels like oil. Thank you for your time, if you can please respond before Jan 3 2007,___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] {Spam?} Re: Herbicide-resistant weed worries farmers
Hi Juan and all,
Yes, I like to dream too. It would be nice if renewable fuels were used for this. Unfortunately, most folks will take the easy path. There are far too many fossil addicts. I am in recovery but it´s just so easy to return. They still are so incredible cheap.
Tom Irwin
From: "Juan Boveda" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] {Spam?} Re: Herbicide-resistant weed worries farmersDate: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:13:50 -0300
Hello Tom.
It is not necessary to be tied to any fossil fuel or even any specific fuel if the design is good.
Some local entrepreneur might transform this to use wood, charcoal,recycled paper, cellulosic wasteand/or waste vegetable oil, instead of liquid fossil fuel.
By the description is just a boiler on a truck, it could even be self powered like a Steam Train from early times.
Best Regards.
Juan Bóveda
-Mensaje original-De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]En nombre de Tom IrwinEnviado el: jueves, 21 de diciembre de 2006 23:23Para: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgAsunto: Re: [Biofuel] Herbicide-resistant weed worries farmers
Hi Kirk and all,
I much prefer hot water to herbicides but why not just pull them and compost them. It still looks like it4s tied to fossil fuel.
Tom Irwin
From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Herbicide-resistant weed worries farmersDate:Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:26:08 -0800 (PST)
"US Town Uses Hot Water -- Not Herbicides -- To Control Weeds"
Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA)
Carrboro, North Carolina, is killing weeds with water instead of chemicals. The town is using a machine that superheats water and dispenses it in a carefully controlled stream to kill weeds without using toxic chemical herbicides. The equipment, which is made in New Zealand, is in use in several other countries but is almost unknown in the United States.
Carrboro is testing the equipment to implement the town's least toxic Integrated Pest Management policy, adopted in March 1999. The policy calls for phasing out use of conventional pesticides, including herbicides, on town property, but does not apply to the local residents, their property or businesses. City leaders hope to show how beautiful grounds can be achieved without poisoning the environment.
To date, efforts to reduce pesticide use have emphasized alternatives to conventional herbicides. An earlier analysis of Carrboro's pest management practices showed that more pesticides were used on weeds than for any other purpose. Weeds are a problem around buildings and parking lots, along curbs and gutters and in parks. The town is using a comprehensive approach, rather seeking a single solution, including a biodegradable herbicide made from corn gluten, propane flamers which kill plants by singing them, thick mulch on plant beds to smother weeds, and now hot water.
The machine in use in Carrboro produces a steady stream of near- boiling water that kills weeds by melting the waxy outer coating of their leaves. The self-contained machine is mounted on a small truck with hoses connected to long-handled applicator wands. A quick spray on unwanted weeds kills them; the plants darken almost immediately and turn brown within a few hours. The flow of water is low and cools quickly. While the results look very much like that of a contact herbicide, there is no toxic residue and the area is immediately safe for play.
"That's what it is all about," said Allen Spalt, Director of the Agricultural Resources Center and a member of the Carrboro Board of Aldermen. "We want to find ways to reduce pesticide use so that we can eliminate the risk of any child being poisoned. Carrboro already uses only small amounts of pesticides; we believe that this hot water system may be part of the solution to reducing use completely."
The hot water system, on loan to Carrboro until the end of June, will be used by town staff, who will also demonstrate it for other interested parties. At the conclusion of the trials, a final decision will be made whether or not the town will purchase the equipment.
http://www.ghorganics.com/HotWeedKiller.htm http://metalab.unc.edu/arc Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) ~ http://www.panna.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Herbicide-resistant weed worries farmers
Hi Kirk and all, I much prefer hot water to herbicides but why not just pull them and compost them. It still looks like it´s tied to fossil fuel. Tom Irwin From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Herbicide-resistant weed worries farmersDate:Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:26:08 -0800 (PST) "US Town Uses Hot Water -- Not Herbicides -- To Control Weeds" Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) Carrboro, North Carolina, is killing weeds with water instead of chemicals. The town is using a machine that superheats water and dispenses it in a carefully controlled stream to kill weeds without using toxic chemical herbicides. The equipment, which is made in New Zealand, is in use in several other countries but is almost unknown in the United States. Carrboro is testing the equipment to implement the town's least toxic Integrated Pest Management policy, adopted in March 1999. The policy calls for phasing out use of conventional pesticides, including herbicides, on town property, but does not apply to the local residents, their property or businesses. City leaders hope to show how beautiful grounds can be achieved without poisoning the environment. To date, efforts to reduce pesticide use have emphasized alternatives to conventional herbicides. An earlier analysis of Carrboro's pest management practices showed that more pesticides were used on weeds than for any other purpose. Weeds are a problem around buildings and parking lots, along curbs and gutters and in parks. The town is using a comprehensive approach, rather seeking a single solution, including a biodegradable herbicide made from corn gluten, propane flamers which kill plants by singing them, thick mulch on plant beds to smother weeds, and now hot water. The machine in use in Carrboro produces a steady stream of near- boiling water that kills weeds by melting the waxy outer coating of their leaves. The self-contained machine is mounted on a small truck with hoses connected to long-handled applicator wands. A quick spray on unwanted weeds kills them; the plants darken almost immediately and turn brown within a few hours. The flow of water is low and cools quickly. While the results look very much like that of a contact herbicide, there is no toxic residue and the area is immediately safe for play. "That's what it is all about," said Allen Spalt, Director of the Agricultural Resources Center and a member of the Carrboro Board of Aldermen. "We want to find ways to reduce pesticide use so that we can eliminate the risk of any child being poisoned. Carrboro already uses only small amounts of pesticides; we believe that this hot water system may be part of the solution to reducing use completely." The hot water system, on loan to Carrboro until the end of June, will be used by town staff, who will also demonstrate it for other interested parties. At the conclusion of the trials, a final decision will be made whether or not the town will purchase the equipment. http://www.ghorganics.com/HotWeedKiller.htm http://metalab.unc.edu/arc Pesticide Action Network North America (PANNA) ~ http://www.panna.org/ __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar MSN Toolbar Get it now! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather
Hi Frantz and all, I am not an expert but weird weather make some sense. A lot has been written about how increased temperatures are melting the ice caps, causing deserts to increase in size and generally making things hot all over. But with higher temperature there must be more evaporation of water. I don´t think we are losing any water into outer space. Some places are drying out but others will get more water than usual. We may be starting to see that with the recent floods in west Africa. I think we can expect more unstable conditions and greater weather extremes. The water cycle is spinning much faster than in the recent past. Weird weather is the result. Tom Irwin From:Frantz DESPREZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] More Weird WeatherDate:Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:51:08 +0100Hello all,In Europe, first time never known that swallows are still flying innorthern France in mid december. Usually, they're all in South Africafor months.The geese migration only began after the storm last week-end. Not yetsnowed below alt.1200m (about 3600ft). Roses are still blooming. My kidshad a bath in ocean not far from Nantes for halloween (we usually havechilly equinox storms at this time). Mediteranean mushrooms and insectshave reached britanny, Paris and Belgium.Specialists say that for one more degree C°, the climate move 200km tonorth. So before I normally die, I should see Madrid or Algier climatein Nantes.frantz(where are the icy winters of my youth ?)___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Death of a Compost Bin
Hi Joe and All, I built one out of some spare wood. It´s about 30 cm x 40cm with about 30 cm in depth. I use pallet wood for the top and bottom. The sides were screwed to four internal 2x2´s. Idrilled about (20) 1 cm holes in the bottom for drainage. I filled the bottom third with shredded newspaper, addeda shovel full of sand and another of soil. Sprinkle with wood ash to keep the pH up. I wet it enough that water came out the bottom holes. I found a local source of red worms and dumped a liter or so into the prepared box.I covered them with more shredded newspaper and started adding my garbage. I wouldn´t go much bigger in size as mine is no lightweight when full. If you need it you should go with two boxes rather than one big one. I dump mine about 4 times a year and start fresh with about 2 handfuls of worms.I wear leathergloves when I open the box as black widows seem to like to live on the lid. The environment must be kind of like the old outhouse but without the smell. As we have no real winter here I keep the box outside in the shade of thebarbeque next to the wood pile. If I see ants invading, it must be time to add water. Tom Irwin From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] The Death of a Compost BinDate: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:14:21 -0500 Hi Luke;Any wisdom to share on the best way to set up a vermicomposter? I'd like to start one and I'd be the type to make my own rather than go out and buy something ready made, but I haven't a clue about the realities of doing it. I have read some info on the web about it though. If you could share some of your first hand knowledge it would be great.JoeLuke Hansen wrote: It sounds like you're all talking about a kinda large-scale operation here, so I'm not sure how useful this will be...but I just built a worm-bin for the place I work, and have one at home as well...and I find that they work faster and better for my composting needs than a conventional composting bin. I crafted my latest bin out of untreated cedar siding leftover from a construction project. However, I suppose that for larger volume applications such as lawn trimmings, I'd second the pallet idea. Good luck, Luke --- Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pallets are particularly useful. Usually you can pick up 3 for free and either have an open side or I had some leftover window screen, which allows air flow. Also, if you have room you can get 5 pallets and make a double bin...using a UU shape. On 12/9/06, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Robert, I use wood posts stacked like a log cabin. It´s open on one side. I don´t use treated wood anywhere. So avoid that poison. If the wood rots in time I replace it. Tom Irwin -- From: *robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: *[Biofuel] The Death of a Compost Bin* Date: *Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:01:49 -0800* Although I don't do all of my composting in a bin, nearly all of our household table scraps and the entire collection of waste from our bunny cage went into a black plastic compost bin. Please note the past tense verb . . . About a week or so ago, we had a blast of arctic air sweep through this area. Temperatures plummeted and with the outflow winds howling out of the east, windchills of -20 C lasted for two or three days. (I know that some of you further east will probably laugh at this, but for those of us who live near the ocean, -20 is pretty cold!) The moisture in my compost bin expanded as it froze, literally warping or shattering the plastic bin. The whole thing actually fell over this morning. I went out to clean up the mess and found the top third of the contents completely preserved and uncomposted (big surprise, it's been cold, right?), the middle third consisted of a singular mass of partially composted, frozen material, while the bottom third remained warm enough to keep on decomposing. But the composter is toast. I'll have to construct another one because I'm NOT going to use plastic again . . . What do the rest of you use for compost bin construction material? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" "The Long Journey" New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 me
Re: [Biofuel] The Death of a Compost Bin
Hello Robert, I use wood posts stacked like a log cabin. It´s open on one side. I don´t use treated wood anywhere. So avoid that poison. If the wood rots in time I replace it. Tom Irwin From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] The Death of a Compost BinDate: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:01:49 -0800 Although I don't do all of my composting in a bin, nearly all of our household table scraps and the entire collection of waste from our bunny cage went into a black plastic compost bin. Please note the past tense verb . . .About a week or so ago, we had a blast of arctic air sweep through this area. Temperatures plummeted and with the outflow winds howling out of the east, windchills of -20 C lasted for two or three days. (I know that some of you further east will probably laugh at this, but for those of us who live near the ocean, -20 is pretty cold!) The moisture in my compost bin expanded as it froze, literally warping or shattering the plastic bin.The whole thing actually fell over this morning. I went out to clean up the mess and found the top third of the contents completely preserved and uncomposted (big surprise, it's been cold, right?), the middle third consisted of a singular mass of partially composted, frozen material, while the bottom third remained warm enough to keep on decomposing.But the composter is toast. I'll have to construct another one because I'm NOT going to use plastic again . . . What do the rest of you use for compost bin construction material? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" "The Long Journey" New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Forces Join Behind Waste-based Energy
Hi Keith and all, I'm a bit concerned that the forces for burning trash is trying to greenwash itself by tying itself to landfill gas burning. They are very different entities from the pollution generation point of view. If you have landfills they are going to produce methane anyway so it should be utilized. Methane is a greenhouse gasand probably has more impact than carbon dioxide. Burning methane to generate electricity makes sense in the context of landfills. It's cleaner burning than other fossil fuels. Burning trash to generate electricity, has been and will continue to be a bad idea. It is not a consistant or clean burning fuel. It generates dioxins and many other pollutants. The ash still requies a landfill. They produce tons of small particulates each year.Just say no to this union. Tom From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:00:07 -0200Subject: [Biofuel] Forces Join Behind Waste-based EnergyFrom: Waste News, Oct. 9, 2006http://www.precaution.org/lib/06/prn_waste-based_energy_plan.061009.h tm[Printer-friendly version]Forces Join Behind Waste-based EnergyBy Joe TruiniIt's the birth of a new partnership, and a new term, to boot.Several waste industry groups, along with a professional and a governmental organization, have formed a loose coalition to promote recovering energy from waste, what they call waste-based energy.The coalition wants to educate lawmakers and the public that waste provides a vast amount of resources to generate energy and that there is a distinction among the various technologies, said Ted Michaels, president of the Integrated Waste Services Association, which represents the waste-to-energy industry."To avoid some confusion, we wanted to make it clear that there was a whole universe of waste-based energy," he said. "Federal and state policy makers ought to look at developing a full range of incentives to encourage waste-based energy projects."Such projects not only include burning waste to create electricity, or waste-to-energy, but other means of converting waste to energy, such as capturing landfill gas."The energy capacity available from solid waste is largely untapped," said John Skinner, executive director and CEO of the Solid Waste Association of North America.Joining SWANA and the ISWA in the partnership are the National Solid Wastes Management Association, the American Society of Mechanical Engineers and the U.S. Conference of Mayors.But the coalition's efforts simply distract from real waste management and energy-saving solutions such as waste prevention, reduction and recycling, said Monica Wilson of the Global Alliance for Incinerator Alternatives.And pushing waste-to-energy and landfill gas projects under the umbrella of renewable energy takes away from other sources such wind and solar power, Wilson said."It just sounds like an attempt to take advantage of America's growing concern over energy costs," she said. "I'd say these folks are trying to move us in the wrong direction."But waste-based energy not only provides reliable and affordable energy, it also can lessen the cost of waste management services for cities, said Tom Cochran, executive director of the U.S. Conference of Mayors.The coalition has not developed an action plan but will work with Congress, federal agencies, state governments and private companies to promote waste-based energy. Its goal is to increase incentives and investment in the industry."We are certainly interested in keeping our eyes open on the Hill for opportunities," Michaels said. "It's a matter of educating folks and letting them know that there is an awful lot of energy that can be tapped in the waste stream."The nation's 89 waste-to-energy plants have total power generation capacity of nearly 2,700 megawatts, about 20 percent of all renewable energy.Contact Waste News reporter Joe Truini at (330) 865-6166 or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Opening the garden -- Uruguay
Hi Jim, Yes, I do. I prefer winters that don't have to be shoveled. Tom From: JAMES PHELPS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:31:46 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Opening the garden -- UruguayTom,Do you spend the Uruguay winters in the US?Jimsnip___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Opening the garden -- Uruguay
Hi All, Greetings from the deep South. The black raspberries are in flower as are the lemon trees. If it wasn't for the manureit would smell mighty nice. The mustard that overwintered is producing lots of seed. I found some good tangerine seeds that I'm hoping will sprout soon.The same is true of some pecans. They got 45 days in the refrigerator. I don't like the nuts much but I really want the wood for smokingmeat. I haven't found much linseed oil in these parts so,' have farm will grow'. The plants are up about 5 centimeter. I wasn't sure if the seeds would germinate so I'm pleased so far. My daughter in the U.S. has tried to send me some open pollinated snow peas but I think they got stopped at customs. Lots of hybrid seed for sale here and no GM allowed so far. I'll probably pull the strawberries this weekend. They went in way too late and really haven't taken off. I've got an insectiary hedgerow started along with some herbs. I had good luck attracting hover flies, parasitic wasps, and a couple of lady bugs. I'd really like to see some ground beetles though. I suppose it is a bit early. The carrots are in the ground but I probably planted them too deep. I got caught in a thunder shower. Lots of other jobs to do this season. I need to put in a new gate, rainwater drainage, and a well. Tom From: Jesse Frayne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:40:16 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closing the Garden - Ottawa versionHi gardeners,Our yard at home is small, in the middle of the city,and shaded by a big tree. So we were looking forsomewhere to grow vegetables.In the last three years we have had some space onpublic land that was contested over, puzzled over,dog-run over by our differing neighbourhood uses. Wehave put in years of meetings to secure thisgreenspace. We dug deeply through the sod and put in manure fromthe downtown farm (it used to be a zoo), turned overour little square, put in an apple tree and two grapevines... etc.Okay, the earth is pretty great. LOTS of worms andalthough in Toronto we surely have clay, not so bad,put the mulch in there for three years and it'sstarting to break up nicely.Okay, here's the deal. This is a public place, thereare dogs, school kids and everyone else walking pastthe garden. I saw a guy walking away with a biggrocery bag of my roma tomatoes. I say to him, "Hi, Ihope you're enjoying my garden?"He says "Oh, I thought it was school-kids put thisin." Like that would make it okay, humm, and hekeeps walking. Interesting.So my daughter put up a sign: "Until we have dug a big enough garden to feed thewhole neighbourhood, could you please leave theproduce to the gardeners?" (She has a thing that ifanyone would be so hungry as to take food from someoneelse's garden, it must be okay.) Guys, I'm thinkin', this is the way it's going to be. I feel cranky now.Our new sign, for next spring, is: "Here are 5 tomatoseedlings. Plant and tend them and enjoy yourgardening."I don't want to fence. I want straight-ahead. ButI'm wondering what is coming. Thoughts?Jesse--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Appropriately, I spent a few hours on Thanksgiving day clearing most of the plant matter from the garden and putting it on the compost pile. Robert, your recent posts have been an inspiration. Thank you. Our garden did not fare as well this year as in past years. Mostly due to lack of attention on my part, although not enough rain followed by too much rain wasn't helping either. Still, we had more tomatoes than we knew what to do with, even after giving them away to neighbours and taking them to work for barbecues and so on. The yellow cherry tomatoes were a special success. So sweet. My son took away a good haul of carrots, which he is enjoying immensely. Enough beets to make into baby food for my grandson, several feeds of peas in the garden and enough yellow beans to even make it to the dinner table a couple of times (after some serious consumption in the yard first). Squash was a disappointment - lots of fruit, but none big enough to justify harvesting. The radish and lettuce either drowned or were scavenged by local fauna. The spinach did not take at all. The jalapenos were bountiful, and I had been told I couldn't grow those this far north. The raspberries did well in the spring, but no autumn crop to speak of. I think the squash needs more sun, which means I need to find some vegetables and fruits that can do with less sun for certain parts of the garden. I'm also going to have to trim back my beautiful maple tree (a rescued weed from years ago), to let more sun reach the garden. Still, it will continue to provide good shade over the park bench we have outside the fence so neighbours can sit and rest if they so desire. After reading Robert's posts, I wonder if I should have gone for a fruit tree instead, perhaps cherry. However, the responsbility for the failures is all mine. The garden sim
Re: [Biofuel] Random thought
Hi Chip and all, It's even easier than that Chip. Big size is bad,small size is good. The larger the thing can be made the more corporate and more concentrated it will be. The big thing will concentrate power,control and wealth. The little thing will be more diffuse, more productive and more beneficial to all. I went to an alternative energysyposium and exhitbition this past week here in Uruguay. Biodiesel was there looking wonderfully primitive, doable and available.Wind power was there big time. There wasn't a system available in the 1 to 10 kilowatt range. The smallest was 650 KW. Solar panel were available to generate electricity at a huge cost or a small systewm to just heat water. Most people can't see small is what they need. They'd rather have the expensive, fancy, polsihed gizmo. Tom From: Chip Mefford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:25:34 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Random thoughtThat hit me over the weekend as I was doing a medium distance drive (~ 4hours), and was listening to NPR as they played up some kinda chat aboutnuclear energy, and how greenies are lining up behind it.It hit me, , ,"So, who benefits the most from Global Warming?"Duh!The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.Never mind that there is no way to draw a line between nuclear energyand nuclear weapons, or if there is, no one in the current politicaldialogue has found it.Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath thoughthe enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, norrenewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of wastedisposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets biggerby the day, not smaller.Never mind that on it's surface, the deals that have been struck foruranium rights make international behind-the-scenes deals for oillook like a girlscout cookie sale.Never mind that when you press for hard facts, they all seemto creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from whenceall this stuff came in the first place.Sure, once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuelhappily fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'dnever LIE about it' reactor, it looks clean enough.But it's just funny that these questions never seem to enter thedialogue, and to even bring them invites the label of luddite.So, who really benefits?interesting, that's all.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: In Case I Disappear
Hi All, I think this new law will be easily thrown out by the Supreme Court. As bad as they are they won´t permit a usurpation of their power. Unfortunately, it will probably take three years for the court to get the case, Tom From: D. Mindock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;Sent: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:25:54 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: In Case I Disappear Maybe that's why there's a number of new prisons springing up. All of us who say what we think about The Shrub will be locked up. Those that join or are inpeace groups are danger. Peace is bad for Big Defense, Big Oil, and slows the spread of democracy, BushCo's kind, to Iraq and other places where it's not wanted.Websites, I imagine, could be shut down for telling the truth about 9/11. We'reat the mercy of a rogue president. And it is all before election time. Are the non-Repugs all going to be locked up? Peace, D. Mindock In Case I DisappearBy William Rivers Pittt r u t h o u t | Perspective Friday 29 September 2006 I have been told a thousand times at least, in the years I have spent reporting on the astonishing and repugnant abuses, lies and failures of the Bush administration, to watch my back. "Be careful," people always tell me. "These people are capable of anything. Stay off small planes, make sure you aren't being followed." A running joke between my mother and me is that she has a "safe room" set up for me in her cabin in the woods, in the event I have to flee because of something I wrote or said. Snip___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Ants in South America
Hi All, I have a question for any insect experts out there. What do ants do from a food web type orientation? What niche or niches do they occupy? I'm having some difficulty with one group that cuts down my colza and hauls it back to their nest. I see several other much smaller varieties that don't seem to do much harm. I pretty much leave those alone but they have a nasty little bite for something so small. The big leaf miners get boiling water down the nest if they attack my crops. Am I goofing soimething up by doing this? Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11
Hi Joe and All, I really don´t want to believe this. That´s part of the problem. But the buildings fell unusually fast, from film and stopwatch just about at freefall speeds. I would have thought if most of the structural steel was okay, except for the areas where the fires were, wouldn´t they have slowed the descent? From: Joe Street [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:08:53 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11That's a very good point Kirk. I wonder how do the civil engineers deal with that bit?Andrew?JoeKirk McLoren wrote: To fall straight down means the failures supposedly caused by heat all happened at the same time. In the real world theylean to the failed side and then forces cause more failures. It is a very tricky business making them fall straight down. KirkAndrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:snip .I studied Civil Engineering with a major in Structures and Analysis not Medicine with a major in Psychiatry so I'll leave the reader to make their own judgements on the rest of this.Regards,Andrew Lowe B.Eng(Civil) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead
Hello Robert, Maybe I missed a post. What kind of EV truck did you find? Tom From: robert rabello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:40:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead- Original Message -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:15 pmSubject: Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead I have been driving these machines for about 30 years now. If I haven'tdone some research and gained some experience, it's been a poor investment.I wish more people thought like you do. The fact that you're driving an EV through Canadian winters is admirable. It doesn't get very cold where I live (Shh! Don't tell anyone!), but an EV truck conversion I drove a few years ago illustrated the viability of electric vehicles in this region. Now that gasoline is selling for $1.16 per liter in my area, an EV is looking more attractive all the time. There are always going to be circumstances where you have to brake, mechanically or electrically (be it plugging, dynamic or regenerative). From the point of view of getting back some electricity or just makingheat, it is intuitively appealing to think something returned is better than nothing, plus it should reduce brake wear and maintenance. I don'tdispute that. My issue is the automatic assumption by many that it approaches perpetual motion.I agree with you. I really like the regen braking in my Camry, though, as it helps me control downhill speed. In a car that weighs over 1 500 kilos, being able to regen is a safety advantage as far as I'm concerned. Now, I've NEVER done brake pads on my Ranger, which is approaching 200 000 km on the odometer, but that's partially because I rely on engine braking going downhill. (That little 2.3 liter Ford can REALLY wind!) I'm VERY gentle on brakes, in general, so your comments concerning driver training ring true.So with a DC motor in your EV, do you rely exclusively on friction brakes? It's hilly where I live, though not as hilly as Southern California, and I don't think I'd want to drive around in a heavy machine that has to rely exclusively on friction brakes. But not all downgrades provide regenerative braking opportunities. True. This is one advantage of a hybrid, in my view. I've dreamed of employing supplemental hydrogen injection for the ICE and using the "wasted" regen braking opportunities to power an electrolyzer, but this would recover very little energy anyway (as most would be expressed as heat)and likely not worth the expense and mass of the additional equipment. In mountain country, it can be different, as the grades can be longer and steeper. However, when one is starting out with a full charge, regenerative braking doesn't work - there's nowhere for the charging current to go, hence no motor braking. Plugging might work in this circumstance, but it's just another way of making heat.Once my Camry batteries are full, the regen shuts off and it uses compression braking exclusively. Watching the onboard computer manage energy in the battery pack is a little like watching a delicate dance. I think, however, that a human being with the capacity to anticipate grades could do a more effective job than an electronic system in managing energy exclusively in response to changes in vehicle speed. That's why I shut the cruise control off in mountainous country. Still, the real catch is how much energy can we expect to get back fromregen in the average use of a mass-production vehicle. My stance is that if it is less than 8% as a starting point for a vehicle used specificallyfor stop and go driving, then it's going to be less for a vehicle driven with fewer stops and starts. Given the current state of automotive technology, there are many places we should focus our energies before regen. Reduced weight, reduced drag, more efficient drive trains (e.g.,get rid of old-style torque converters). Driver education, including the importance of tire inflation, tune-ups, slowing down, planning trips, trip-chaining and how to drive for fuel economy. Can I hear an "AMEN"? Actually, I remember one of the early production EVs implemented regenerative braking, not for the energy capture, but to mimic the feel of ICE braking, so drivers new to EVs would feel more comfortable with the initial driving experience.That's what my Camry does too. It's very easy to drive that car in a conventional manner, but I think that's what Toyota set out to do when their engineers first put pencil to paper.robert___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@susta
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Hello Doug and all, I remember looking into that technology years ago. The concept itself has a lot of merit but itwas a safety and materials nightmare. Imagine a very heavy flywheel spinning at very high RPM's. The energy storage capacity is great but what happens if something breaks. You get lots of high energy parts flying about capable of causing great damage or injury. Does anyone know if they have come up with new shielding. I imagine the bearings are much better today. Tom From: lres1 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 07:55:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? Can anyone remember in the mid tolate sixties a conversion to flywheel energy in motor bikes and cars? The test bike was a tad hard to corner due to the Gyroscopic effects and did not "lay over" as a standard bike in cornering. Needed a hand brake to park as it would not lean onto a stand, again due to the gyroscopic effects. Just stood there in the parking lot up right and looking real strange with no stand down or visible sign of support. The car proto was a different kettle of fish with many types of rotors available. Can any one remember these as they were easy to re-charge just run onto a dyna tune set up so the rollers ran the rear wheel which put power back into the flywheel. The same as the car and bike on braking the power went back into the flywheels. Seems battery storage to produce a controlled rotary motion via various means is a slight loss comparedto maybe a rotary system already running just needing the control which the batteries would need as well. Not sure how far the idea got or why it was scrapped but seems not to beabout any more. The concept of the stored energy seemed good at the time. No PV cells needed. Doug - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? Mike, I agree and certainly wouldn't rule anything out, especially with places like Berkley Labs developing PV with 50+ percent efficiencies.However, emerging energy storage technologies (like the supercap technology mentioned by Kirk), suggest a quick "fill up" and puts into question the need for any other on-board energy conversion technologies (i.e. solar, liquid fuel/IC engines, etc.).I'd imagine that nearly every renewable and alternative energy schemebeing discussed is now a possibility sincefast electrical storage could turn ourattention to stationary sources and not those which necessarily need to be integrated into the vehicle.- RedlerMike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But it would add a huge degree of efficiency,If the funds were there I'd enhance the battery back and include capacitors. My noodling was with an old Isuzu Trooper - lots of room up top for panels, and a lot of sre room to tinker.Here's one person's expiriment: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/solar-powered_t.phpKirk McLoren wrote: The photovoltaics are non essential. In fact it is arguable that non concentrating cells are not a viable renewable enrgy source. The diesel on the other hand is the obvious answer and it is odd the hybrids are gasoline. The battery bank would be better replaced with supercap technology such as Skeltons (in prototype phase) but in the meantime we will have to muddle through. Kirk */Ron Peacetree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: Back on the actual subject listed as the topic of this thread... A little digging has convinced me that a diesel-electric hybrid w/ photovoltaic cells on the the hood/roof/trunk could easily be the basis for vehicles that could completely replace the traditional gasoline/diesel based ground/water vehicles currently in use at acceptable levels of performance, economy, etc. (Air travel vehicles operate under more stringent constraints that I'm not sure this "diesel/electric w/ PV assist" power supply idea could satisfy.) A rotary diesel motor could supply as much as 2HP / liter; perhaps more if optimized for constant rpm. The battery problem should be solved by using fuel cells since they provide far more energy per unit weight. Until fuel cells are available, there are many new ideas for increasing even the efficiency of the "standard": the lead-acid battery (spin off company from Case or John Deer that gets ~2x the power/weight out of lead acid batteries IIRC?) that could fill in. For applications not as economically constrained, the "exotics" like Li-ion are of course an option. However, fuel cells seem to best any battery technology I've heard of. PV cells of as high as 42% efficiency are now reality; and I'm told by people in the that business that mass production would _significantly_ reduce their costs. This is a recipe for, say, a car, that fits all the constraints a normal consumer would have... ...and gets 100-200mpg while doing it. With t
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Hi Todd and all, Do you mean acre-foot of seawater? Do you have any idea how much phosphorus would be required for growing this kind of mass even if the algae can fix atmospheric nitrogen? Let me diplomatic and say this seems to be an overestimation. Tom From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 02:46:51 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae.Todd Swearingen\Um, where exactly are these acres of algae each producing 100,000 gallons of oil? Anywhere here on Planet Earth in August 2006?:-)KeithKirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:WHAT!?!?!?!?!?Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] EV is not dead
Hello Joe and All, Definitely Yeah! I like the concept but haven't seen the price of the car or battery life info. Is this available somewhere? Tom From: Joe Street [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:55:21 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] EV is not deadYy!http://news.en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/article.aspx?cp-documentid=673300Joe___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Trash Talk
Hello Todd and all, I´ll be happy to say more. Fault seven -- Fly ash, small (less than 10 microns) that cannot be seen, escape the scrubbers and the baghouses, pass through the protections to the human respiratory system and take up residence in the lungs causing at minimum increases in infection and asthma. Fault eight -- fly ash acts as an adsorbent or combines with heavy metals ( lead, zinc, mercury ) Fault nine -- fly ashacts as an adsorbent or combines with dioxin and furans Faultten -- waste to energy plants are operated to maintain a constant steam flow to the turbine generating the electricity except when stack tests are being done. Then they try to burn as clean as possible, like no wet material or it just happens to coincide with burning all that waste (recyclable) paper we couldn´t find a buyerfor. Fault eleven -- still need a landfill for the ash that is usually higher than 15% of the initial burn Fault twelve -- 99.99% clean means 0.01% dirty. Make sure you multiply the dirty part by the number of tons of material processed daily. That way you can get a feel for how much gets filtered by human lungs of thosefolks living in the plume Feel free to add more folks these were just my favorites being an asthmatic Tom From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:31:17 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Trash TalkThis is a PR piece, with the author being used to represent only a few of the facts.One of these little puppies is in the vicinity of Leesburg, Florida. In order to build it, the owner required a consistent volume of garbage and had the county/municipality agree to the tonnage. Unfortunately, upon startup they found out that the only way the monster could be adequately fed was to start hauling in garbage from outlying regions at a considerable cost to the municipality/citizens.That's fault one.Their recycling program was also scrapped as a method of generating a larger waste stream for the monster in order to adhere to the contract.That's fault two.It is virtually impossible to "screen" garbage sufficiently in order to prevent hazardous waste from entering the combustion chamber. It is also virtually impossible to prevent the ad hoc combining of elements under such temperatures. The biggest hazard is the uncontrollable formation of dioxins and furans - carcinogens. Essentially, "waste to energy" plants are nothing more than hazardous waste incinerators in miniature.That's fault three.The fly ash from waste to energy plants literally is classified as hazardous waste under RICRA. Unfortunately, these types of facilities, along with coal fired power plants, etc., are given exemption and the toxic ash is deposited in landfills where it becomes a component of the leachate. When the liner eventually fails, Wallah! The toxic leachate becomes an ever widening underground plume that contaminates the hydrology (to be read "drinking water eventually.")That's fault four.And let's not forget that capitalistic nasty called toxic racism. Take a good look where these plants are located and look at the residential areas in closest proximity. Low property values (going lower once a plant like this is installed), generally populated by low income families. You don't see these facilities going up in upper crust or middle-class environments.That's fault five.And the industry massages authors under a flag of green washing, as they have for twenty years and better, in a push to make the public feel all warm, fuzzy and environmentally at peace, having failed to inform the writers of all the "little," ugly nuances surrounding the industry.That's fault six.Need anyone say more?Perhaps what we need to do is produce a fair bit less waste? Perhaps a really serious economic drought or depression is in order to achieve what we fail to instill in the consumer mindset.Todd SwearingenD. Mindock wrote:Trash Talk at: http://www.the-rude-awakening.com/RAissues/2006/march/RA071806.htmlBy Justice LitleRemember the classic '80s movie Back to the Future, inwhich Marty McFly (Michael J. Fox) traveled to 1955 in atime machine built by Doc Brown (Christopher Lloyd)? Theinitial version of the time machine, a souped-up DeLorean,was fueled by plutonium. At the end of the movie, Doc Brownreturns from the future with a new-and-improved versionthat runs on garbage.Getting a nuclear reaction from coffee grinds and bananapeels seems a bit of a stretch. In fact, turning thecontents of your garbage can into any form of clean energysounds like a pipe dream. But Covanta Holdings Corp. (NYSE:CVA) does just that. It turns garbage into electricity, ina process known as waste-to-energy.So how does the waste-to-energy process work? In anutshell, safety-inspected garbage is fed into a feederchute by an overhead crane.The feeder chute delivers the garbage into a giant furnace,where it is forced onto a downward-sloping grate. Achurning action is
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
Hello Manuel, I have an interest in such a system for my small farm. I think a 5kw genset with invertor should suffice but my concern is with noise and vibration. How do you handle this? I like the countryside for peace and quiet. Thanks, Tom From: manuel cilia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:45:56 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?Dear Kevin,I do this for a living. My company is based in Australia and we supply off-the-homes with power. In outback Australia it can cost upwards of $150,000 to connect to the grid.snip___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Re: Addicted To Oil
Hi Chris, Click above French Fried Freidman. It's a great article. Tom From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 00:16:41 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Re: Addicted To OilFWIW.Er...http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2005-06/05palast.cfmFrench Fried FriedmanKeithFrom: Jordan Wiggins [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: Addicted To OilDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:14:16 -0700Hi,I'm just following up on an email I sent you last week about "Addicted To Oil: Thomas L. Friedman Reporting" to see if you've been able to mention it on your site?ÝI also wanted to remind you that the special airs this Saturday only. This is a timely and important issue to educate Americans on, and Friedman does it in an engaging and entertaining way. I believe your site readers will thoroughly enjoy it and I hope that you will be able to tell them about it before Saturday's airing.ÝI can provide you with a preview screening if you'd like to view "Addicted To Oil"Ýand write about it before it airs. There are clips, images, and a press release at the links below that you are welcome to use, as well.Please let me know if you have any questions and if you'll be able to help get the word out.Thanks,Jordanhttp://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/addictedtooil/addictedtooil.htm l?clik=netmain_feat1MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "68.178.158.128" claiming to be MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: http://68.178.158.128/Discovery/AddictedToOil/assets/assets.htmlOn Jun 16, 2006, at 3:38 PM, Jordan Wiggins wrote:Hi,Iím Jordan at Crew. Iím writing to you because weíve got some exciting content from the Discovery Channelís new special ADDICTED TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING, a timely and in-depth presentation about one of todayís most pressing issues -- the political and social dynamics of escalating oil and gasoline prices. I believe your site readers will enjoy this content, so I wanted to offer it to you.ÝHere's more information about the special:Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times columnist Thomas L. Friedman brought globalization to the masses with his recent book, The World is Flat.Ý Now, in his new one-hour Discovery Channel documentary, ADDICTED TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING, Friedman takes ìpetropoliticsî into the mainstream by revealing that todayís energy crisis is very different from the gasoline lines of the late 1970ís. In candid interviews with former CIA director James Woolsey, General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner and other key officials, Friedman reveals Americaís Achilles heal and the heart of todayís energy crisis: 97% of Americaís transportation -- including cars, planes and trains ñ is dependent on oil. How did the United States get to this point?Ý What is the message of ìPetropolitics?îÝ ADDICTED TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING examines the new realism that has driven some Americans to find a solution to the nationís oil habit by researching and investing in new ìgreenî technologies for cars and homes, rather than waiting for government incentives. ADDICTED TO OIL: THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN REPORTING airs Saturday, June 24 at 10 PM (ET/PT).At the link below, youíll find video, photos, the program press release and more. ÝMailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "68.178.158.128" claiming to be MailScanner warning: numerical links are often malicious: http://68.178.158.128/Discovery/AddictedToOil/assets/assets.htmlYou are more than welcome to and are highly encouraged to utilize any of the assets on the page, but please do not link directly to our server.ÝPlease let me know if you are able to use this content and if you have any questions. Let me know if you have any other ideas, as well.I look forward to hearing from you.Best,Jordan WigginsCrew Integrated Marketing1157 N. Highland Ave.Los Angeles, CA 90038Ph: 323.316.9768Fax: 323.468.3640mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]Jordan WigginsCrew Integrated Marketing1157 N. Highland Ave.Los Angeles, CA 90038Ph: 323.316.9768Fax: 323.468.3640mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 3A molecular Sieve and Methanol recovery Results
Hi Tom, Joe and all, Air drying without heat is probably not the best way to go. Zeolites will absorb moisture from the air. When I was ai Air products we used to heat to 400C under nitrogen flow to a real low dew point that I cannot remember exactly but -40 is stuck in my memory. Then we would cool it under nitrogen flow then run our gas separations. That's probably overkill for water/methanol separationsbut it was pretty much our SOP for zeolites. It they saw air then you regenerated prior to a test. Some of what you are seeing could be chemisorption of the methanol on the surface but the numbers seem too high. I think methanol may be smaller than 3A just based on your results. I don't know if water is more polar than methanol. If not I don't think it will drive off bound water. I recall carbon dioxide being one of the most stongly held gasses. I hope this helps. Tom Irwin From: Joe Street [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 16:42:11 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] 3A molecular Sieve and Methanol recovery ResultsHi Tom;Do you have any unopened zeolite? If it is vacuum dried (and I suspect it is) at the manufacturer, it may gain mass due to adsorption of moisture from the air. Take some out and weigh it and let it sit out in the same conditions as the other stuff you are air drying and then weigh it again.JoeThomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, I have some concerns re: my recent results using 3A Molecular Sieve to dry recovered methanol. Concerns: 1. I distilled 4 gal ( Containers #1 2), and had to interrupt the process. Last 4 gal were distilled two days later (Containers #3 4).2. Air drying: The Zeolite from the Control as well as from Containers # 1 2 were air-dried at the same time, for the same duration under “identical” conditions. Due to interruption of distillation and a week of rain, the Zeolite from Containers 3 4 was removed from the methanol after the same time period (24 hrs) as C, #1, #2, but stored in covered plastic containers until weather permitted, and then were air-dried for the same length of time as the others under as similar conditions as could be reasonably expected.I air-dried the Zeolite until it looked uniformly light in color. The idea was to simply remove moisture (methanol) from the surface.3. The Control gained mass. Although the methanol in the Control was not a newly-opened barrel, I reason to believe it to be reasonably pure. I had a concern going into the experiment that 3A Molecular Sieve might allow methanol to enter (3A = 3 angstrom units ~ size of pores in the beads) It is used to dehydrate ethanol. Water molecule = 2.8 angstrom units, ethanol = 4.4 angstrom units, methanol = I don’t know. I suspected/hoped methanol was larger than the pore size. I suspect that water adheres more strongly than methanol to the inner walls of the beads and tends to remain attached. Additional air-drying Zeolite from C, #1, and #2 (done after surface was dry and original measurements were recorded) resulted in continued loss in mass. At temps of only 72 F (22.2 C) and filtered light I don’t suspect much of the weight loss is due to water.4. Zeolite, under the best of circumstances (exposed to vapor under pressure) can absorb up to 25% of its weight in water. Zeolite from container 3 increased in mass 23.1 % and zeolite from Container 4 gained 28.8%. What gives?The results are interesting in that a comparison of the zeolite exposed to the recovered methanol to the control suggests that there was little water in the first 4 gallons recovered. This is corroborated by the fact that I used the Control and the first 2 recovered gallons + about 1 gal. from the barrel to make a 91L batch of BD that passed the “methanol quality” test. I pan to use the second 2 gal. in the next batch. (Maybe after a couple of hours of dry zeolite treatment). Tom - Original Message - *From:* Thomas Kelly mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:41 AM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] 3A molecular Sieve and Methanol recovery Results Hello all, 3A Molecular Sieve and Methanol Recovery I first separated the glycerine mix using Phosphoric Acid. This fragment has a high percentage of the excess methanol used to produce methyl esters. I then recovered the methanol using a simple still and condenser. The methanol flowed into containers that each had 5 pounds (2270g) of new zeolite. Each container was marked such that in addition to the zeolite, there would be 2 gal (7.6L) of methanol. Container #1 received the first 2 gal of recovered methanol, container #2 the next 2 gal, etc. My hope was, that by comparing final mass of zeolite to initial mass, I could get a sense of how much water was coming over with the methanol and what was a reasonable cut-off point for the process. A Control was included
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol boom or bust?
Hi Darryl and all, We´ve seen a sharp jump in the price of sugar here in Uruguay. It had been about 13 Uruguayan pesos (about .50 U.S. dollars). Now its about 23 pesos. Tom Irwin From: Darryl McMahon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 08:21:25 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Ethanol boom or bust?Ethanol boom or bust?Whether Canada's answer to Kyoto will work is the mystery Snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Seriously and Just for fun
Hi All, In case you thought protest music ended in the last century, there are a few young ones still trying. Just go to google in English and type asshole and hit 'I feel lucky'. After listening and watching the music video a gray screen with credits comes up. Click on the " miss the 2004 version click here. This will take you to a wonderfully disturbing website called filmstripinternational.com.There are several titles but the one I really found interesting was the 1946 EncyclopediaBrittanica despotism filmstrip. Who says history doesn't repeat itself. If this has already been posted I'm sorry but I missed it. Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost
Hello Thomas and all, Temperatures above 65 C. are generally considerred to be limiting in that they tend to kill off large groups of microorganisms and slow down the composting process. I suggest turning the pile when temperatures get that high or you will pasturize the pile and need to regrow your biomass once the pile cools down. Large compost piles (usually in a curing/storage stage) have been known to catch on fire if permitted to dry out too much because they had not finished degrading bug edible material. Tom Irwin Snip 48 hours later the temp of the pile was 160F (71C)!!!. This wasn't the center of the pile, but rather 12 inches in. Itook readings at 4 places. Are there any negatives to achieving such high temps(160F or more)? Snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] odd heat source
Hi All, If the solid waste comes in mixed and not with the organics source separted they can be contaminated by anything that was in the original solid waste. Heavy metal contamination comes to mind, particularly mercury, lead and zinc. I would also ask about the energy source for drying and pelletizing the solid waste. That could make it a zero sum or negative sum proposition. Organics in a solid waste stream can be very wet. Is there any penalties in the contract if 60 tons of pellets are not delivered? Tom From: Jason Katie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:19:33 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] odd heat sourcedoes this make good sense? yea it has its merits, but i can forsee some problems. any opinions or ideas?http://qconline.com/qcnews/archives/qco/sections.cgi?prcss=displayid=284865April 19, 2006 1:07 PMBiodiesel plant to use trash as fuelMARCUS, Iowa (AP) -- One man's trash is another man's -- energy source?Soy Energy, a company that plans to build and operate the plant, will use pellets of biomass from a local landfill as its primary source of steam and thermal energy, said Mark Buschkamp, executive director of Cherokee Area Economic Development.Experts say trash is a novel source of energy for a biofuels refinery. Company officials believe using biomass will offset the high costs of natural gas.The biomass will come from Cherokee County Solid Waste, a three-county landfill near Cherokee, Buschkamp said.The landfill will build a facility to collect materials, such as paper, cardboard and foods, which will be turned into pellets for use by Soy Energy.The plant will require 60 tons of pellets a day.Construction on the plant, to be located on 37 acres between Marcus and Cleghorn in northwest Iowa, is expected to begin by the end of the year with a planned opening for the end of 2007.An announcement on the $52 million investor-owned project was expected Wednesday.Plans also include construction of a soybean-crushing plant, expected to be completed by 2010.-- Information from: The Des Moines Register, http://www.desmoinesregister.com___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sulphuric acids
I do not know if you will get the same chemical reaction with 93% vs. 95%. It may not be a simple calculation that more would be needed, as chemical reactions can differ with the amount of concentrate, heat, etc. You can buy 95%-98% sulfuric acid, ACS Reagent Grade at ChemLab Supply in Phoenix, Arizona. Does anyone know how much sulfur is ultimately emitted by using sulfuric acid as a catalyst? If it was used on a wide scale, could it contribute significantly to acid rain? Tom Rothweiler On Apr 10, 2006, at 3:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in the foolproof method, as defined on the JTF web site, it is stated to use 95% sulphuric acid. This is hard to get these days for an individual and somewhat costly. however there is an old fashioned drain cleaner whose MSDS reports is 93% sulphuric acid. oddly enough anybody can buy gallons with no problem. Does anybody know if this slightly less percentage will work? r. Allison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11
Hello Maria, Bob and All, I see what you mean by a chimney effect providing additional air for the fire. The plane's body could add to the heat if it could reach theignition point. I wonder what the ignition point is for the metal used in a airliner. I would think that the chimney effect would dissapate heat from the crash point to the upper floors. Tom From: MARIA BURGER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:10:20 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11 I'm certainly no "expert" either, but I would presume that charges placed in the middle of the building would initiate structural collapse from the middle. Nothing says you have to put them at the bottom! Cheers! Chris - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11 Howdy Tom, I'm no expert but one feature of the towers was rather large unbaffled elevator shafts. get a fire going and you have a considerable chimney effect, also what other materials from the planes and or structures themselves could have contributed to the flame temperature- magnesium for example. once you get a few of the upper floors to fail there was a pancaking effect as the top floors fell through and added to the load on the floors below.wouldn't planted charges caused the structural failure from the bottom up? That's not what I recall from the videos.Tom Irwin wrote: Hi Bob and all, I think it's in a lot of water supplies. But I have a couple of questions for you that have bothered me for sometime.. How does an oxygen starved kerosene fire melt structural steel? Could such a fire really cause temperature hardened rivits to fail? and so many simultaneously. Tom *From:* bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:15:03 -0300 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11 Is there something in the water in Utah? Didn't Jones collaborate with Fleischmann and Pons in the cold fusion fiasco?D. Mindock wrote: See: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/ 0...5179751,00.html http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635179751,00.html Last fall, Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones made headlines when he charged that the World Trade Center collapsed because of "pre-positioned explosives." Now, along with a group that calls itself "Scholars for 9/11 Truth," he's upping the ante. "We believe that senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what really happened on 9/11," the group says in a statement released Friday announcing its formation. "We believe these events may have been orchestrated by the administration in order to manipulate the American people into supporting policies at home and abroad." Headed by Jones and Jim Fetzer, University of Minnesota Duluth distinguished McKnight professor of philosophy, the group is made up of 50 academicians and others. They include Robert M. Bowman, former director of the U.S. "Star Wars" space defense program, and Morgan Reynolds, former chief economist for the Department of Labor in President George W. Bush's first term. Most of the members are less well-known. Avery Wiseman | 03.25.06 - 4:19 pm | # http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tf2777/article12493_htm/#13842 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "journeytoforever.org" claiming to be http://journeytoforeverorg/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "journeytoforever.org" claiming to be http://journeytoforeverorg/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___
Re: [Biofuel] A Carbon Cloud Hangs Over Green Fuel
Hey Jerry Perkins and All, That is a really lame attempt to frame the issue for your lobby. I could care less if coal is renewable or not. (and yes, I´m aware that the U.S. sits on 500 years worth of the stuff) The problems with coal are the polluting sulfur, poisonousmercury and glacier melting carbon dioxide it will produce when burned. You can forget about the small environmental damages like open pit mining, acid mine drainage, and mine worker health and safety. No one will much care about those when the foot of the Appalachian mountains is ocean front property. Tom Irwin From: Rexis Tree [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 01:28:43 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Carbon Cloud Hangs Over Green Fuelhttp://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060205/BUSINESS04/602050315/1033 Ethanol plant counts on coal for power The change will cost less than natural gas, but some complain that coal isn't renewable.JERRY PERKINSREGISTER FARM EDITOR___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11
Hi Bob and all, I think it's in a lot of water supplies. But I have a couple of questions for you that have bothered me for sometime.. How does an oxygen starved kerosene fire melt structural steel? Could such a fire really cause temperature hardened rivits to fail? and so many simultaneously. Tom From: bob allen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:15:03 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11Is there something in the water in Utah? Didn't Jones collaborate with Fleischmann and Pons in the cold fusion fiasco?D. Mindock wrote: See: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/ 0...5179751,00.html http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635179751,00.html Last fall, Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones made headlines when he charged that the World Trade Center collapsed because of "pre-positioned explosives." Now, along with a group that calls itself "Scholars for 9/11 Truth," he's upping the ante. "We believe that senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what really happened on 9/11," the group says in a statement released Friday announcing its formation. "We believe these events may have been orchestrated by the administration in order to manipulate the American people into supporting policies at home and abroad." Headed by Jones and Jim Fetzer, University of Minnesota Duluth distinguished McKnight professor of philosophy, the group is made up of 50 academicians and others. They include Robert M. Bowman, former director of the U.S. "Star Wars" space defense program, and Morgan Reynolds, former chief economist for the Department of Labor in President George W. Bush's first term. Most of the members are less well-known. Avery Wiseman | 03.25.06 - 4:19 pm | # http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tf2777/article12493_htm/#13842 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allenhttp://ozarker.org/bob"Science is what we have learned about how to keepfrom fooling ourselves" - Richard Feynman___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: How To Steal an Election
Hi All, Although I tend to enbrace technology when it helps, what is the problem with giving each person a paper copy of their own vote. Then take this paper copy to another location at the voting place to be tabulated against the machine count as part of the voting process. This count would be the real count with the machine being the preliminary count. Just a thought. Tom Irwin From: Evergreen Solutions [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:24:20 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: "How To Steal an Election" Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the open-source, publicly moderated type systems, however...I'll point out some flaws...First off, the wide reaching level of conspiracy you're suggesting with the idea that "he rigged the vote" would in NO WAY be challenged by any of these mechanisms...the only possible issue would be more people on the payroll...but even then... 1. I don't trust my elected type people to look @ the guts of the software in the voting machine, and I sure as HELL don't want it made public for scrutiny. I'm not saying they don't need better protection, as the DeBolt machines were given to "hackers" last year and within about 3 hours they had dialed in and modified information. But...There's WY too many people with WY too much to gain to have source code filed away in some public office. Besides, anyone who understands anything about real hacking will tell you that half the fun is NOT having the source code... 2. "Elected officials have no chip to compare..." Again...none of my legislators would know the difference between an eeprom and a cpu, so...what's the point? A separate leislative/controlling entity to do checks? First off, they already exist, and second offthey're a *cough* publicly funded group, no less susceptible to the degree of conspiracy you're suggesting. Now, furthermore, the "chip" in a vegas slot machine that they're talkng about is the random number generator algorithm stored on an eeprom. All they do is an MD5 footprint to compare that the right algorithm is on the chip...randomly, which is about twice a month per machine. A casino can lose hundreds of thousands of dollars a day from re-chipped machines, so they have more REASON to check, plus there's no random number generator in an election machine. Apples to oranges comparison. 3. You don't want to know how many "programmers" have histories. Seriously. I have a friend who was one of those people who, when finally busted, was told "come work for us or go to prison." Now he makes $200,000 a year working for the company who busted him. DeBold and Wells Fargo have invested millions of dollars into the development of these machines. Consider the challenges...they have to be excruciatingly easy to use, very hard to open, extraordinarily easy to maintain, and capable of reporting every single daily interaction, all while maintaining the fun encryption that uses jumping keys in case the data stream gets intercepted. My point is that they've got safeguards in place to monitor the people on the teams...a slot employee can swap an eeprom and never get caught and his friends'll make hundreds of thousands of dollars. What's a programmer going to gain? Well, he'll definately get caught when the review team comes in, he'll get fired, lose his job, lose his entire career, and not be able to go to the machine and recoup his losses. 4. You want public information on how testing is done? Seriously? Let's tell all the people who want to circumvent the system EXACTLY where they're looking for security, and therefore exactly what's NOT scritinized as closely? Thanks but no thanks, private security firms charge a lot of money for a reason, and a lot of it is because they DON'T share the specifics of how they do their work. 5. This one's a dual edged sword. You don't necessarily want any tom dick or harry to be able to log-in/pop open the machine and say "Yup Delores, your vote DID go to Kerry, not Bush", but you also need voters to feel secure in knowledge that when they pressed KERRY the machine's variables weren't swapped and the vote didn't go to Bush. They don't want a papertrail exactly, and none of us want barcoded ID's with which to vote...but in most cases if you trust the people who are paid $50 a DAY for 15 hours of working the polls over the machine w/ automatic tally, then I think your reasoning is flawed. I'm not saying the system is right yet, or that it doesn't need significantly more work, I'm saying I personally believe it's just as secure if not more, simply by being LESS acceptable to the random poll workers in your small town. Just my 2 cents, feel free to disagree to your hearts content. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at J
Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'
Hello All, I think far too many people get their information from the boob tube. Very few people begin their discussion of the current war in Iraq with its starting point at around 1980. I have talked with more than a few of my countrymen and many still think this is a war caused by Saddam Hussein´s insane attempt to use WMD´s against us and his links with international terror. Where did they get these ideas? I believe television mostly or one of the corporate media outlets. If the only news one gets is from these sources you cannot help from being……. well brainwashed. I really wish there was another word for it. Misinformed is too weak. How else can it be explained that I and my people accepted a pre-emptive war? Think about that concept. The greatest military power in the world is going to attack you because at some time in the future you may be a threat to us. New York and Washington were not attacked by Iraq but because Saddam isn´t a nice guy and may have thought about such attacks let´s go kill him. Insane, ridiculous, oversimplified, definitely and yet we swallowed it hook, line and sinker. How else other than being brainwashed can it be explained? Stupidity…..no, there are plenty of smart Americans. Laziness….no, Americans work like ants. Correct me if I´m wrong but the concept of working 24/7 comes from the American lexicon. Perhaps that´s part of the brainwashing, too. But I digress. If pre-emptive war is your moral starting point all of the other war crimes follow in its path. When we Americans did not stand up and say no to pre-emptive war there can be no blaming of soldiers for acts of atrocity. The huge atrocity has already been permitted by a ¨ free society ¨. How can anyone blame young soldiers in a war zone for their actions. They are merely the minor reflection of the crimes we have already committed. Get our children out of harms way now! Not next year or 5 months from now but now. Begin this week. We shouldn´t have gone there. It was wrong! Just get out completely. No bases, no carrier strike force, no submarine launched cruise missles. Anything else is just a mistake. Any force left behind will be abused. Get out now, get out quickly and beg for forgiveness cause we have certainly done incredible harm. Tom From: regina abbott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:18:03 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians' Hello KeithThis is E in Montana. All of these things you cite about possible atrocities are disgusting and regrettable like most everything else in war. But what about the soldiers? As in Vietnam the people they are there to protect are also trying to kill them. By the way the E stands for ED, my wife and I shared an email address when we joined the list. I spent 14 months in Vietnam in the Marines. I think that qualifies me to know how a lot of these guys feel. It is no fun to spend every day waiting for a sniper bullet to end your life or to have it ended by a bomb planted by say a 3 year old child. It does something to you! It does something to you to be a "survivor" . You never forget the ones that died and those that wish they had. And they, like us from Vietnam, get to live with the "FACT" that it was all over the money grabbing corrupt politicians. You try to remember that you served your country not the thieves running it. Also my previous post was meant to have very little to dowith this one. It was meant for the many anti-American remarks made in previous weeks. Before you condemn a soldier, try to put yourself in his shoes. You may find some grace for him. I am not condoning murder. P.S. Don't knock our country. Do as you wish with our corrupt politicians!!! From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] [off topic]US marines 'massscred Iraqi civilians'Date:Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:37:29 +0900A link:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-2090849,00.htmlUS Marines investigated for Iraq war crimes - World - Times OnlineMarch 17, 2006By Jenny Booth and agenciesAbout a dozen US Marines are being investigated for possible warcrimes after the deaths last year of 15 Iraqi civilians caught in thecrossfire during a gun battle with insurgents.Also:http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12379.htmUS raid on home killed 11 family membersBy Amer Amery03/16/06 - TIKRIT, Iraq, March 15 (Reuters) - Eleven members of anIraqi family were killed in a U.S. raid on Wednesday, police andwitnesses said. The U.S. military said two women and a child diedduring the bid to seize an al Qaeda militant from a house. A seniorIraqi police officer said autopsies on the bodies, which includedfive children, showed each had been shot in the head. Communityleaders said they were outraged at the killings and demanded anexplanation from the U.S. military. ...http://snipurl.com/nwz2Telegraph | News | SA
Re: [Biofuel] Global warming, oceans warming up, earth's core climate changes
Hello Martin and All, I have a simple question. Where is the author´s substantial evidence? Science mag.org may not be a peer reviewed journal. Tom From: Martin Kemple [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:59:04 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global warming, oceans warming up, earth's core climate changesYou mean we can't blame the right-wing and SUV crowd anymore?On Mar 20, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Mike McGinness wrote: I ran into something new (to me) recently on the topic of global warming, CO2 and the greenhouse gas issue that I decided to follow up on today to see if there was anything to it. I have spent an entire day reading and searching the internet on the topic and here are the best links to what I found listed below. But first let me try to briefly introduce and summarize the highlights of what I found. The main author claims that there is substantial evidence that recent fluctuations (increases) in the amount of heat released to the earth's oceans from the earths core has heated the oceans, raising their temperature and thus resulting in the rapid release of CO2 to the atmosphere (due to equilibrium shifts in CO2 solubility as a function of ocean water temperature) as well as rapid losses of ice at both polar ice caps. They are claiming that thermodynamic analysis of the changes in temperature of the oceans and the atmosphere combined with the huge difference in heat capacity of the ocean (liquid water) versus the atmosphere (gases) suggest that the build up of CO2 in the atmosphere is not the major cause of global warming but that the earths core is cyclically heating the oceans and forcing the oceans to release CO2 to the atmosphere. The difference in heat capacity between liquid water and air is several orders of magnitude (liquid water has about 1000 times the heat capacity of air). A lot of their thermodynamic and chemical equilibrium arguments make a lot of sense to me. If they are correct and if their predictions of where the weather is headed as a result is also correct ( see climate and ice ages at http://nov55.com/cli.html and super storms at http://www.unknowncountry.com/edge/quickwatch/ and the "Day after Tomorrow" http://www.cambodianonline.net/earth04014.htm ), we need to do a lot more than just reduce CO2 emissions. You can find the rest of the details in the links below. Theory on Hot Spot Rotating within the Earth at: http://nov55.com/thry.html Heat in the Earth's Core at: http://nov55.com/heat.html A page with a lot more interesting links: http://www.cambodianonline.net/homeearthchanges.htm Glacial Cycles and Astronomical Forcing at: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/277/5323/215? rbfvrToken=9b3e6a97683c69e3ba0c9f60006b6165cdf21028 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White House
Hi Hakan, Can you explain how the dollar debt is effected negatively by higher oil prices? If the value of the dollar is pegged to the price of oil doesn´t a doubling in the price of oil halve the effective dollar debt? I imagine that the treasury is working overtime to print up all those hundred dollar bills so the rest of the world can buy oil. I also imagine that you can cordone off Iran´s southern oil fields with a long term radioactive kill zone. I wonder what Iran´s air strength is? Tom From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:22:40 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White HouseHi Tom,The dollar debt is effected negatively by higher oil prices. However, the only real support that the dollar have today, is that it is the oil trading currency. If oil would be traded in Euro, the dollar would lose its base and US economy would be in severe trouble. That is why an oil bourse with oil traded in Euro, is worse than any physical attacks and war.An attack on Iran is many times more dangerous than the Iraq venture. Iran is far more capable and motivated, than Iraq ever was. Iraq would be the first situation to explode, when the Shiites would directly attack. The US presence in Iraq and a popular armed resistance, will not be possible to "shock and awe" with terror bombings, as was possible in the previous Iraq war. Iraq will again be the battle field and US will face both an uprising and troops from Iran. US will again resort to terror bombing, both within Iraq and in Iran. It will under no circumstances be a short war.If US thought that they had some major incident in other Arab countries. It will be nothing, compared with the guerilla attacks that will follow in all Arab countries. If you then consider the lack of oil deliveries, that all developed countries will suffer, it will be difficult for US to wage a war. A very large part of the military would be locked up in securing deliveries of the scarce oil resources that they could get their hands on, only to maintain the war effort. The whole world will be hit by an economic depression and US will never be able to recover its current standing.I really hope that Bush is capable to some logical reasoning and common sense, but I am not overly optimistic. This time he cannot even hope for a token support from the international community, which probably will turn against him instead.HakanAt 23:20 12/03/2006, you wrote:Hi Keith and All,There is little doubt that the U.S. will hit Iran. That oil bourse is supposed to open in a week or two. The only open question is will the U.S. hit before or after it opens. I also think that the U.S. will use nukes albiet low yield ones. Their detonation underground will cause but a small nuclear signature and given the target is allegedly a nuclear facility I imagine and radioactive spillover will be blamed on the facility. I foresee cruise missiles raining on Iraq´s air force, followed by U.S. air attacks and no fly zones. We´ll steal the oil rich zone adjacent to Iraq for ¨security ¨reasons and give it to the Brits. The folks in Washington don´t care how high oil prices go. Remember that they´re all oil folks. Higher prices equate to greater profit for the companies. Also higher oil prices make dollar debt disappear.Tom--From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:42:58 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White House"U.S. ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton was calmlyproposing an illegal attack on a sovereign state, possibly involvingnuclear weapons."___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White House
Hi Keith and All, There is little doubt that the U.S. will hit Iran. That oil bourse is supposed to open in a week or two. The only open question is will the U.S. hit before or after it opens. I also think that the U.S. will use nukes albiet low yield ones. Their detonation underground will cause but a small nuclear signature and given the target is allegedly a nuclear facility I imagine and radioactive spillover will be blamed on the facility. I foresee cruise missiles raining on Iraq´s air force, followed by U.S. air attacks and no fly zones. We´ll steal the oil rich zone adjacent to Iraq for ¨security ¨reasons and give it to the Brits. The folks in Washington don´t care how high oil prices go. Remember that they´re all oil folks. Higher prices equate to greater profit for the companies. Also higher oil prices makedollar debt disappear. Tom From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:42:58 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White House"U.S. ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton was calmly proposing an illegal attack on a sovereign state, possibly involving nuclear weapons." snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] bioplastic bottled water WAS hybrid efficiency
Hi Marilyn and all, In order for a plastic or any substance to be biodegradable it has to be wettable. I'm assuming that you want biodegradable plastics. You cannot store water or any wet food in a truly biodegradable plastic because it will almost immediately start degrading and have bacteria and fungus growing in it. Anything that decreases wettability would enhance storage life but decrease degradability. Suffice it to say it is a difficult problem. Non-degradable platic does have it's uses. Glass recycles better but shatters easily and thus is dangerous in the kitchen and bathroom. Tom Irwin From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:18:23 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] bioplastic bottled water WAS hybrid efficiencyI saw a bottled water documentary that showed how some companies just take water from a tap and label it spring water. Lab analyses showed many brands had water no cleaner than city water. It also said water bottles people did not recycle ended up as a huge amount of the trash in landfills. Unless they are made of bioplastics they will never decay. Does anyone know of any water companies using plastic made from plants? NEC and other big electronics companies in Japan are using bioplastics made from kenaf, sweet potatoes, and other plants for their computers, audio equipment,etc. One article said they are buying up all the kenaf they can find around the world. I'm trying to find US or Canadian companies making bioplastic products. We are creating sustainable industries in our community and this is one we want to do. Anyone out there who can help?MarilynBiofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:Depends.Supermarket filtered by the gallon probably runs around $2/gallon.Name brand around $4/gallon to $20/gallon.Home delivered 5 gallon jugs ~$1.80/gallonSame company 24 .5L is $2.20/gallonHakan Falk wrote: Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US? Hakan___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency
Hi All, The comparison is kind of ridiculous unless it rains gasolene or diesel in your neck of the woods. Tom From: Marty Phee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:21:46 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiencyIf you exclude state and fed taxes water is much more valuable than gas.I think gas is 2.39 around me today.Find a spring, put it into a fancy bottle and your rich.Hakan Falk wrote: That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I understand, http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htmhttp://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm @ $1.453 per gallon. So, what was wrong with the original statement? Nothing as I understand it. Hakan At 21:25 09/03/2006, you wrote: Depends. Supermarket filtered by the gallon probably runs around $2/gallon. Name brand around $4/gallon to $20/gallon. Home delivered 5 gallon jugs ~$1.80/gallon Same company 24 .5L is $2.20/gallon Hakan Falk wrote: Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US? Hakan At 19:59 09/03/2006, you wrote: Here's a better one (more current and longer time range) ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Value of olives olive oil?
Hello Malcolm, I´d be a bit careful with this one. A hectare is 1 sq meters and recommmeded stocking density is 300 or so trees per hectare. My guess is your getting a patch of maybe 100 trees. If they are mature trees they should produce about 50 kilos per tree. What type of olive trees are they? Tom Irwin From: MALCOLM MACLURE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:45:43 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Value of olives olive oil?Does anyone have any idea what the market value of olives olive oil are atthe farm gate in Euros.We're looking at buying a place in Spain with 3000 sq m of groves, so I'mtrying to work out the affordability.I've found lots of great info on growing olives including maintenance costsbut nothing on pricing of the produce. A friend who has a place in Cretethinks his local farmer there gets E300 per tree - but the figures seem toogood to be true.Any help (to escape this rat race - lol!) would be appreciated. Regards Malcolm ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
Hi Chris, Unfortunately, this is still marketing noise without numbers. What is is comparing? Is it recouped vs. the cost of electricity generated via nuclear, coal, gas, petroleum or a competitor's solar system? How many 50 watt panels do you need... 10, 50, 100, 1000 before you see a two year recoup? Tom Irwin From: Chris lloyd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:49:51 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology? My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Trying to produce biodiesel in laboratory scale
Andres, Doesn´t the water poison the catalyst and give you saponification reactions? From: Andres Secco [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 00:37:16 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Trying to produce biodiesel in laboratory scale Dear Duarte, The basic reaction you are doing is a nucleophilic reaction were the methoxide replaces the glycerine in the fatty acid. So you get free methylstearates (if the oil have stearic acid). This substances called methyl-Stearates or Linoleates arethe Biodiesel. Now, I have some questions What kind of methanol do you use, absolut? Try using a 96% instead and add some water to it 20 ml. It must be ready for use in 1 hour and is far less toxic than the absolut. WhatI see is the following. The non reacted glicerine still have someunreacted portions whichact as emulsifiers and do emusify somepolar phase in the biodiesel. Once you separate the upper phaseadd more methoxide and separate again. Must be much clearer. Try rinsing with alkaline water too. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Bio-Diesel in Palestine
Hello Elad, Perhaps you have access to third press solvent extracted olive oil. It is probably used for other purposes but it may be available for Biodiesel. Are you planning to use ethanol or methanol as your processing alcohol? Tom Irwin From: Burak_l [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 04:55:39 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Bio-Diesel in PalestineDear Elad;Greetings from Istanbul. Beside personally following up the alternativeenergy for past, professionally we have been doing automation of the biodiesel plants.I can try to give you some ideas on what we are doing here.Do you know what type of oil you will be using? Or better what is availableover there for you to use? What type of equipment you have?And do you have the land available?If you can send me some information I can discuss with the process guys andcome back with some ideas which may be usefull.RegardsBurak-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Keith AddisonSent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:16 PMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Bio-Diesel in PalestineDoes anyone have any good advice for Elad Orian? Respond direct or(better) discuss onlist - I gave him the list archives link so he canfollow any onlist discussions (or join). I think there are manyprojects similar to what he envisages, and it would be good to hearabout them.BestKeithDate: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:37:11 +0200From: Elad Orian [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Bio-Diesel in PalestineTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Dear Journey to Forever,my name is Elad Orian and I am an Israeli peace activist. Togetherwith a Palestinian partner from the west bank we have envisioned theconstruction of a medium sized Bio-Diesel production plant (startingfrom around 1000 liters a day) at the Palestinian village of Bil'in.The village has been the center and the symbol of the jointPalestinian-Israeli struggle against the construction of theseparation barrier that Israel is building and land confiscation andwe felt that in order to take the cooperation to the next level weneed to start positive constructive work.The Bio-Diesel option came naturally as an environmentally friendly,community supporting and economically sustainable enterprise. Wewish to build a production system with the following characteristics: 1. environmentali sound 2. locally built 3. long lasting 4. growing capacity 5. efficientYour site is the most comprehensive and accesible information sourceon the web and I was hoping to hear from you whether you know of anyother initiatives with similar characteristics (i.e. in betweenbackyard producers and full scale corporate factories) I couldcontact to learn from and maybe even visit.many thanks indeed,elad orian___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release
Hi Mike and All, I'm increasing my garlic intake. It seems that one of the compounds in garlic acts as a chelating agent for heavy metals. I don't know if it will catch mercury but it is supposed to be fairly effective for lead. Tom Irwin From: Mike McGinness [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Sent: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 13:54:55 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report ReleaseThe mercury in vaccines and flu shots has been reduced 99.9% from what it was a few yearsago (I researched this a few months ago for a recent booster shot) if you get the rightsupplier!! BUT, Ask to see the paper work first for the actual vial being used!! Ifound that out while dealing with the local County Health Clinic dispensing the Vaccinesrecently.Of course that begs the next question of what toxin they replaced the mercury with to keepthe vaccine and flu shots sterile and presumably safe!Mike McGinnessMargo wrote: Mercury seems to be in the vaccines as well, including flu shots. I don't know what the answer is, but there must be a better answer than some of the things we humans have come up with so far. I still think the natural food industry has a lot to contribute in this area. Young Living has some very interesting information in some of their latest studies. - Original Message - From: "Mike McGinness" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release In regards to mercury emissions from burning coal and my prior comments: I almost forgot the really big, big BIG issue. All silver colored dental fillings are currently still made from mercury amalgam metal alloy (50% raw mercury!!!) according to my local dentist Therefore, We are probably the single largest unregulated source of mercury emissions in the environment! Thanks to the FDA! Mike McGinness Michael Redler wrote: Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:26:10 -0500 Subject: [renewable-energy] Mercury Levels Rising: Report Release Fellow enviros, For almost two years, we've been gathering hair samples from Greenpeace supporters across the country. On February 8, we released the results of our nationwide mercury study, http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/mercury-report and the results are alarming. Over *one in five* women of childbearing age tested above the limit the Environmental Protection Agency set as safe. The even more chilling news is that earlier this year in his State of the Union speechhttp://members.greenpeace.org/action/start.php?action_id=80ref_source=listsmercury to Congress, President Bush called for more energy investment in dirty fossil fuels, including coal, the largest source of mercury pollution in the country. Tell Congress that America doesn't need more coal and mercuryhttp://members.greenpeace.org/action/start.php?action_id=80ref_source=listsmercury to be spewed into our environment, our waterways and our bodies. A healthy, sustainable energy futures begins with increased investments in clean, renewable energy, not dirty fossil fuels. Best, Nick Greenpeace www.greenpeaceusa.org[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] == THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE RENEWABLE ENERGY LIST. -- . Please feel free to send your input to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Join the list by sending a blank e-mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. To view previous messages from the list, subscribe to a daily digest of the list, or stop receiving the list by e-mail (and read it on the Web), go to http://www.yahoogroups.com/list/renewable-energy . . This e-mail discussion list is managed by the American Wind Energy Association: http://www.awea.org -- Association: http://www.awea.org -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainabl
Re: [Biofuel] Heavy metals in biodiesel via bioremediation?
Hi Zeke and All, This may be a moot point since most people will not be growing oil seeds or grazing animals on heavy metal contaminated land. Heavy metals tend to be respiratory poisons. By this I mean cellular respiration. At high enough concentrations, lead, mercury, zinc and cadmium interfere with a cell's ability to make energy. Of course their effect is much broader than that but this alone is enough to kill a cell, a tissue, an organ etc. These heavy metals take the place of or interfere with sodium, potassium, iron or magnesium within the cell. When they do so things like proteins bend or distort and become non-functional. Think of a heavy metal like lead interferingwith iron in a hemoglobin molecule or magnesium in a chlorophyll molecule. In one case oxygen doesn't transfer in the other sunlight is no longer useful to make plant energy. Bioaccumlation can occur but since we're talking about plants it is limited. Lands that are severely contaminated with heavy metals tend to be bare and lifeless.Lower levels of contamination are tolerated depending on the amount of organic material in the soil. The humic acids, due to their complex stuctures, bind metals and sequester them. That's why swamps with lots of organic matter tend to have high concentrations of metals as metal sulfides. In plants I would think that heavy metals would attach to proteins first, then vitamines, then conplex benzene ring compounds, then triple and double bonded fats, greases and oils. So something like linseed oil with lots of double bonds might have some contamination with heavy metals while single bondedmaterials would have less. I don't think this is a big issue unless you are reclaiming aSuperfund site with oilseeds and then use the oilseeds for biodiesel. It's a good question though. I don't currently have an AA analyzer but I know someone with an ion chromatograph.Perhaps I can pursuade them to run some of my canola but it may gunk up their system Tom Irwin From: Zeke Yewdall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:10:09 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Heavy metals in biodiesel via bioremediation?Reading a bit about the leaded gasoline and lead and mercurycontamination from various sources in other threads this morning leadto me thinking about heavy metal emissions from biodiesel. Theoretically, we know exactly what's in there (just veggie oil,transformed with methanol and lye, right?). But having read a bitabout bioremediation as well, I wondered if anyone has ever tested howmuch heavy metals could be accumulated in the oil of rapeseed andmustardseed crops grown for biodiesel on contaminated soil, andre-emitted into the air? I can't remember the source now, but Iremember a site in china where they grew mustard plants oncontaminated ground, burned the plants, and found that the ashescounted as high grade silver ore... In bioremediation, exactly whatparts of the plants accumulate the most heavy metals -- if they'relike animals, the fats (oil feedstock for biodiesel) would hold alotof them right?Just some musings on my part now, but I'd be interested if anyone hasstudies which address this.Zeke___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Annexing Khuzestan; battle-plans for Iran
Hello Hakan and All, Thank you for the explanation. I had wondered for many years how the U.S. was able to maintain such large trade imbalances. Will there not be a huge econonic downturn globally if the U.S. economy fails? Who is going to buy all those gadgets and other products. A drop in U.S. external consumption of 25 or 50% would harm a lot of corporations. Are the rest of the world´s currencies ready to expand to fill the gap? I don´t think so. What you foresee is not a gradual shift but an outright disaster. Interesting, I´m glad I have my farm. I won´t starve and I grow my own energy. I´ve already traded most of my dollars for real things. Others would do well to return to the land. Of course, we´re going to have to hide pretty well cause there´s a lot of guns out there to say nothing about all the nukes. I´ve never been very good at being someone else´s slave. How long do you think we´ve got. Two to five years perhaps? Tom Irwin From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:24:17 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Annexing Khuzestan; battle-plans for IranUS is totally in the hands of "friendly" oil nations, who demands payment in dollar, which means that the whole world have to buy dollar to get oil. Unfortunately, US have no longer a security base for its currency and instead built an enormous foreign debt by imported goods from other countries. The world is also dependent of getting dollar for their oil use. It is a situation that is inherited from the time when US was the major oil exporter and built their former economic strength by oil exports. The situation is now difficult, because the only reason for a country to hold dollar, is the need to buy oil. This way, the oil countries are holding enormous amounts of dollar and have to invest them in the US or use them to buy from other nations, who need them to buy oil. This way the dollar is he only world currency and based on oil. It is no wonder, that oil producers fell a need of diversifying and will want to use Euro instead, this since Euro is based on a more loosely base of countries and therefore somewhat stronger in its base.If you take away the oil trade, the dollar have no base and will collapse totally. US will be called on their enormous foreign debt and since the demand of dollar no longer is there, the whole US economy will collapse with the dollar. US will be forced to do repeated devaluations, which only give short term effects and the living standard will be hurt. US products will not be able to compete, without further devaluations and US started a financial spin that only will end with chaos in the society. With the unbalanced income structure in the US, it will be a very large part of the population that will be very poor and with too low purchase power to survive. This will in its turn cause an enormous social unrest and nobody can imagine where this will end.Many of the countries in Latino America will suffer even worse, but will turn to trade with Europe in Euro. This will also lessen the demand of dollar and those who have dollar based economies, have to shift to Euro based economies. The whole base for US influence in the world will shift and it is not surprising that US is willing to fight for its existence. The question is, if it is not already too late for US anyway and if they with military means can build an empire that is large enough. Historically, it has never been done before, the Germans thought that they could built a 1,000 years Reich, but it was not feasible. This especially since US at some point must turn against Europe, Russia and China. US is too late, because they do not have energy resources enough to wage wars in a larger scale, other than a suicide war that ends with nearly total destruction of the world.HakanAt 20:02 02/02/2006, you wrote:Keith Addison wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11743.htm Annexing Khuzestan; battle-plans for Iran By Mike Whitney [snip] The bottom line on the bourse is this; the dollar is underwritten by a national debt that now exceeds $8 trillion dollars and trade deficits that surpass $600 billion per year. That means that the greenback is the greatest swindle in the history of mankind. It's utterly worthless. The only thing that keeps the dollar afloat is that oil is traded exclusively in greenbacks rather than some other currency. If Iran is able to smash that monopoly by trading in petro-euros then the world's central banks will dump the greenback overnight, sending markets crashing and the US economy into a downward spiral. Can someone please explain in simple terms how " The only thing thatkeeps the dollar afloat is that oil is traded exclusively in greenbacksrather than some other currency." is true?My understanding is that the international currency traders tradehundreds of billions of dollars worth of currencies and/or currencyderivatives every day, an amount t
Re: [Biofuel] Ethynol vs Biodiesel
Greetings Anna and All, I believe ethanol dominates the main stream media because of big companies like ADM which stand to benefit from it. From a more environmental standpointethanol can be made from diverse feedstocks like cellulose, starch, and sugar. It can be used in automobiles with some conversion of the engine. Biodiesel isgood because it can be used in large vehicles like trucks,electric generators, home heating, and farm tractors. It can be made from vegetable oils, like from sunflowers or animal fata like pig lard. You can make biodiesel using a simple alcoholwhich ethanol is. Both fuels can becarbon dioxide neutral meaning they are made from plant materials not from coal, oil or natural gas. Essentially by using these fuels and not fossil fuels you spin the carbon cycle a bit faster but do not add addition carbon dioxide to the atmosphere. From a chemical point of view, ethanol is more volatile and flammable than biodiesel but biodiesel has about 6 times more carbons per molecule so you can go farther on the same liquid volume. I believe the term is more energy dense or perhaps higher energy quality. They each have unique uses and it isn´t a question of one or the other. Both will have a role in sustainable energy development as do wood,wind, and other renewable energy sources. Tom Irwin From: anna b [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:58:00 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Ethynol vs BiodieselI am curious as to why ethynol has dominated therecent discussion in main stream media of alternativefuels. The way I see it biodiesel is alreadyavailable as are diesel cars to use it. Does anyone know of any studies that compare the costand environmental impacts of ethynol vs biodiesel? Anyone have any knowlege as to why ethynol totallydominates the discussion in the main stream media?Thanks!Anna__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush's state of the Union speech
Greetings Zeke and All, " here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which isoften imported from unstable parts of the world" Yes, GWB actuallysaid that on national TV. Yes, this is very confusing Zeke. I remian highly skeptical. At the moment of his lowest credibility he speaks about the enviroment. Is that the message? The angel on my other shoulder speaks of the power of redemption. My wishful, hopeful shoulder should know better says the devil atop my other appendage. What frind of his will benefit from free money sent to PV research and cellulosics?So I admit I didn't watch the speech last night (since watching himtalk makes me want to puke). But I read the text today and found itvery interesting and confusing given who said it. Some veryspecific energy statements, that I never expected to hear from him. PV research almost doubles. Cellulostic ethanol gets a big boost.http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060131-6.htmlAlsohttp://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2006/35.html I can't believethat Jeff was invited to meet with the president -- this littlestudent competition may actually be having some small effect onnational energy policy? Apparently Bodman loves the Solar Decathloncompetition, which might just have something to do with the proposedfunding boost PV research is getting?The relevant exerpt from the speech:"Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy. And here wehave a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is oftenimported from unstable parts of the world. The best way to break thisaddiction is through technology. Since 2001, we have spent nearly $10billion to develop cleaner, cheaper, and more reliable alternativeenergy sources -- and we are on the threshold of incredible advances. and we´ve spent nearly 2 trillion to maintain our addiction to oil says the little devil! So tonight, I announce the Advanced Energy Initiative -- a 22-percentincrease in clean-energy research -- at the Department of Energy, topush for breakthroughs in two vital areas. To change how we power ourhomes and offices, we will invest more in zero-emission coal-firedplants, revolutionary solar and wind technologies, and clean, safenuclear energy. (Applause.) Ahh, nuclear, clean and safe. Now I understand laughs the little devil. Let´s hide that statement beneath some environmentally sound camouflage quick before anyone notices. We must also change how we power our automobiles. We will increaseour research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars, and inpollution-free cars that run on hydrogen. We'll also fund additionalresearch in cutting-edge methods of producing ethanol, not just fromcorn, but from wood chips and stalks, or switch grass. Our goal is tomake this new kind of ethanol practical and competitive within sixyears. (Applause.)Breakthroughs on this and other new technologies will help us reachanother great goal: to replace more than 75 percent of our oilimports from the Middle East by 2025. (Applause.) By applying thetalent and technology of America, this country can dramaticallyimprove our environment, move beyond a petroleum-based economy, andmake our dependence on Middle Eastern oil a thing of the past. Of course after we´ve sold you electric cars we´ll have to burn coal cause it takes ten years of so to build nuclear power plants. But don´t worry, people who know, tell me this climate change thingee is a slow gradual process that we can easilyget under control once we´ve won the war on terror and built 6 or 7 hundred nuclear power plants to replace those coal burners.Why is the little devil laughing uncontrolably? Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Anglo-American War of Terror
My goodness there´s an awful lot of puppets around. Many folks in the U.S. consider Bush to be Cheney´s puppet. I wonder who controls Cheney? Big Smile, Tom From: Doug Foskey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 18:28:48 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Anglo-American War of TerrorAnd in Australia we call our (/) illustrious PM 'the shrub' as in 'a little bush'. Unfortunately for we Aussies, our PM does not have much left to learn from Georgie: we now have Sedition laws, un-needded anti- bad guys legislation, 'workplace reform' that is all about making it easier for the overseas masters.Unfortunately, there is a larger cultural drift apart of the haves have-nots. Australia now is a very different place to the one I lived in 30 years ago.Happy new year to all!Doug On Monday 26 December 2005 9:17, Chris lloyd wrote: I quite agree with you regarding the comments about the military adventure the only super power the USA and Bush's pooodle Tony Blair in Iraq. Hi Fox, please get things right. "The Poodle" was Margaret Thatcher belonging to President Raygun. Tony Blier "The Hand Puppet" as called by us here in the UK as he appears to have President Bushes hand shoved up his backside. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ashes from Glycerin sawdust logs
I don´t know this for certain as I´ve done no testing of byproduct ash but I think you can put most anything organic into a compost pile and have it degrade. It´s been usedfor hazardous waste treatment of some fairly nasty things like heavy fuel oil, chlorinated organics solvents, toxophene,PCB´s, TNT, and solid rocket fuel. If I recall it even degraded vinyl alcohol, which is carcenogenic. Tom Irwin From: JJJN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: BIO [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:22:37 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] Ashes from Glycerin sawdust logsI have been burning Glycerin sawdust logs to heat my little "laboratory" and now I am wondering if I put the wood ashes in my compost pile will I be messing anything up or will the byproducts that remain in the ashes be good for the compost bugs. I searched the archive but did not find anything specific to ashes from glycerin. Any help here?___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] How long can WVO sit before transesterification
Hi Marty and Mike, Oil can go rancid like butter but it takes a long time. It can get surface growths in about 3 months at room temperature. These are usually very thin mixtures of bacteria and fungi. They are aerobesrequiring oxygen. The carbon to nitrogen ratio isastronomically high so there should only be a thin skin of biomass floating on the surface that is easily skimmed off. Oxygen transfer into SVO should be really bad too, limiting growth.Longer periods of time say 6 months to several years and the anaerobes will have a chance to do some damage but they run into the same carbon to nitrogen ratio that limited the aerobes. In addition they will reside a little distance below the surface or directly on the bottom. They are essentially surviving on the nitrogen and phosphorus released by the dead aerobes. Most of the oil will remain undecayed but may smell like goats or rancid butter. It should process just fine with some filtering. ( Coffee filters should be okay)One last thing is keep it out of the sun. The light can cause algae to grow and pretty soon you have a thriving but smelly community. Tom Irwin From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:45:04 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How long can WVO sit before transesterificationI dunno, I've made usable BD from some very smelly oil.Marty Phee wrote:Since it's been so cold I haven't been worried, but he wanted me to ask.If it warms I would think it could go rancid. What effect would that have on the process?Mike Weaver wrote: I've kept it around a good long time and used it with no problems.I wonder if it molds?Marty Phee wrote: My friend has probably a couple hundred gallons sitting around right now. He was in the hospital for a while and can't process it.Also, given we're in chicago and the weather is kind of cold. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline
Hi Greg, I don't think you will see too much about butanol being used for biodiesel. I could be wrong but I believe viscosity goes up rather dramatically by increasing the number of carbons on the ester chain. A few years back I tried to use propanol to make BioD and although there was some separation, the top layer, (I dare not call it BioD) was like molasses in consistency. I can only imagine what the addition of another carbon to the alcohol would do. Tom Irwin From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:04:12 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline Ran across this on another list, and thought people here wouldinterested it. http://butanol.com/index.html http://www.ilcorn.org/Corn_Products/Butanol/butanol.html Be interesting to see the information about BioDiesel made with butanol. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Hello, Keith, I suspected that diversity was necessary with the animals if it is necessary for plants and soil. Any particular rotations or combinations work best? Thanks for the benefit of your experience and knowledge. I also applaud your amazing dexerity. Milking compost worms is really difficult. :- Tom From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:59:13 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farmingQuick question. Can the animals just be earthworms or are rumanants required?Tom IrwinHello TomI spent 20 years trying to get earthworms to stand in for a cow, and failed. And I really hated the milk! Sorry, just kidding... (But I've eaten wormburger, very good!)Well, okay, it would probably take a lot longer than that to prove it, but by that time there wasn't much hope that it could work and a lot of indication that it wouldn't. Scant hope in the first place. I'm afraid earthworms are to be counted on the receiving side, along with all the soil micro-organisms, not among the ruminants, they do a different job. Or a different part of the same job.I don't think it's confined to ruminants though, I reckon grazing should be biodiverse, like the grasses are and the soil bugs. Maybe the more biodiverse it is the fewer ruminants you need in the mix. Also it involves composting as well, and if you're an artful composter it doesn't much matter what kind of manure you use. Lots of variables to juggle with. If you add earthworms at the composting stage, or rather manure worms, you can get a lot more options, but I think that's about as far back in the process as earthworms go.I wish I could find the reference, I've got it somewhere (on paper!), but it seems Europe's main grazing animal is the vole. Voles eat more grass than anything else does. They have to be playing an important overall role but they sure aren't ruminants. I never managed to get hold of any vole dung to experiment with and there's not a lot of literature on the role of the vole and how long the pasture will last yer.BestKeithsnip___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
