Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
one laboratory method would be to combine equimolar amounts of methyl chloride (chloromethane by the iupac) with a nitrate salt. Greg and April wrote: Then how is NitoMethane made? Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:35 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution Howdy Teoman, bubbling thru the solution is all that it would do. It doesn't react under these conditions. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Teoman, you really need at least a short course in organic chemistry. It would answer most if not all of your questions. A little understanding of organic chemistry can go a long way. Teoman Naskali wrote: Any known functional groups? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Tan Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution Hydrocarbons are relatively inert. They only undergo reaction at vigorous conditions such high pressure and/or high temperature, i.e. with a spark(kaboom!). A reactant would need to have what is called a functional group to react at less vigorous condition. With alcohols, the functional group is -OH which makes it react. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:00 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution How would you react the solution with the gas? Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Hydrocarbons are relatively inert. They only undergo reaction at vigorous conditions such high pressure and/or high temperature, i.e. with a spark(kaboom!). A reactant would need to have what is called a functional group to react at less vigorous condition. With alcohols, the functional group is -OH which makes it react. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:00 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution How would you react the solution with the gas? Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Any known functional groups? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Tan Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:58 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution Hydrocarbons are relatively inert. They only undergo reaction at vigorous conditions such high pressure and/or high temperature, i.e. with a spark(kaboom!). A reactant would need to have what is called a functional group to react at less vigorous condition. With alcohols, the functional group is -OH which makes it react. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:00 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution How would you react the solution with the gas? Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Propane becomes liquid under pressure. Mehtane would be bubbled through the solution. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:00 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution How would you react the solution with the gas? Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
I knew that somebody would have thought of it if it were possible. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of michael skinner Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:24 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution The reaction works by replacing one alcohol with another in Fats you have glycerol which has 3 alcohol groups which are attached to 3 fatty acids when you react an alcohol with a acid you get an ester it is call a transesterification because you substitute one alcohol for another since the alkanes you mentioned do not have an alcohol group you could not use them doing the transesterification reaction. if you could catalytically oxidize to form a alcohol ... (oxidize alkane think explosion or fire) them maybe. Original Message Follows From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:15:35 +0300 Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Howdy Teoman, bubbling thru the solution is all that it would do. It doesn't react under these conditions. Teoman Naskali wrote: Propane becomes liquid under pressure. Mehtane would be bubbled through the solution. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:00 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution How would you react the solution with the gas? Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Then how is NitoMethane made? Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:35 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution Howdy Teoman, bubbling thru the solution is all that it would do. It doesn't react under these conditions. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
The reaction works by replacing one alcohol with another in Fats you have glycerol which has 3 alcohol groups which are attached to 3 fatty acids when you react an alcohol with a acid you get an ester it is call a transesterification because you substitute one alcohol for another since the alkanes you mentioned do not have an alcohol group you could not use them doing the transesterification reaction. if you could catalytically oxidize to form a alcohol ... (oxidize alkane think explosion or fire) them maybe. Original Message Follows From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:15:35 +0300 Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
methane, propane etc. are hydrocarbons. You need alcohols for a transesterification reaction. Sorry, they won't work Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
How would you react the solution with the gas? Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol substitution
Beer or wine works, but you should not drink it until AFTER the reaction. bob allen wrote: methane, propane etc. are hydrocarbons. You need alcohols for a transesterification reaction. Sorry, they won't work Teoman Naskali wrote: Just a thoght bu would it be possible to use methane or propane or buthane instead of methanol? One would have to have some methanol for the methroxide but still... that would save a lot of money. Has anynone experimented? Any good reason why I shouldn't? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
