Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil as fuel and lubricant
Dear Sirs, Kerala state in India has its name originated from 'coconut trees'. Can someone tell me on the possibility of using coconut oil as fuel as well as lubricant in engines. What all properties matter - for coconut oil as a fuel and as a lubricant. Shaji from Kerala Hi Shaji Do a search in the list archives for coconut: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Also information on coconut oil here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vest wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil as fuel and lubricant
Dear Sirs, Kerala state in India has its name originated from 'coconut trees'. Can someone tell me on the possibility of using coconut oil as fuel as well as lubricant in engines. What all properties matter - for coconut oil as a fuel and as a lubricant. Shaji from Kerala Yahoo! Properties Special Buy, sell, rent...your flat, or even post an ad [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut oil
-Original Message- From: F. Marc de Piolenc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2001 4:18 PM To: Biofuel List Subject: [biofuel] Coconut oil Hanns Wetzel wrote: Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the coconut is still green, the juice (I refuse to call it milk) contains much sugar. Do not get coconut water or juice confused with milk. The milk is expressed from the grated meat and contains oil, while the water simply pours out when the nut is opened. **I'm not, but here in Oz and and in other non tropical parts of the world people often refer to the juice (water) as well as the fat containing emulsion you refer to as milk, hence my comments. The water is an excellent beverage - refreshing and restorative. When I climb to inspect my local Rotary Club's reforestation project on Mount Agad-Agad, I drink one or two nuts' worth at the top to get the oomph to get back down! **same as I've done for most of my life walking around the coastal (and some inland) regions of PNG. After a hearty breakfast at 6.00am, I'd subsist on green coconuts (called kulau in Pidgin) till the evening meal about 7.00pm. I have eaten an excellent sherbet in Guadeloupe that was made from it, though I can't find it here. It can also be used to make vinegar, and coco vinegar is generally used here (wine vinegar is imported, expensive and essentially a gourmet item). Presumably, if acetic fermentation is possible, then alcoholic fermentation is, too. Must get some buko juice and yeast and find out... What happens to this sugar as the nut matures and the endosperm thickens and hardens? Does it get converted to fat? Or is enough still present that it can be fermented to produce ethanol? Good question. Easily settled, too. I have access to both mature (lov) and young (buko) coconuts here. Yeast should not be hard to find, if I'm willing to settle for bread yeast rather than brewer's yeast. Time for a comparison test after I finish with the June issue of the magazine... Finally, as I mentioned in a previous message, can ethanol be derived from veggie oil (perhaps through intermediate trans esterification) just like gasoline is derived from crude fossil oil? The chemistry of that doesn't work out too well. You can get glycerol (a trihydroxy alcohol) from the oil by hydrolysis (such as occurs in soap manufacture), and the fatty acids can be converted to fatty alcohols, but these will be higher alcohols, not ethanol. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil
Hanns Wetzel wrote: Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the coconut is still green, the juice (I refuse to call it milk) contains much sugar. Do not get coconut water or juice confused with milk. The milk is expressed from the grated meat and contains oil, while the water simply pours out when the nut is opened. The water is an excellent beverage - refreshing and restorative. When I climb to inspect my local Rotary Club's reforestation project on Mount Agad-Agad, I drink one or two nuts' worth at the top to get the oomph to get back down! I have eaten an excellent sherbet in Guadeloupe that was made from it, though I can't find it here. It can also be used to make vinegar, and coco vinegar is generally used here (wine vinegar is imported, expensive and essentially a gourmet item). Presumably, if acetic fermentation is possible, then alcoholic fermentation is, too. Must get some buko juice and yeast and find out... What happens to this sugar as the nut matures and the endosperm thickens and hardens? Does it get converted to fat? Or is enough still present that it can be fermented to produce ethanol? Good question. Easily settled, too. I have access to both mature (lov) and young (buko) coconuts here. Yeast should not be hard to find, if I'm willing to settle for bread yeast rather than brewer's yeast. Time for a comparison test after I finish with the June issue of the magazine... Finally, as I mentioned in a previous message, can ethanol be derived from veggie oil (perhaps through intermediate trans esterification) just like gasoline is derived from crude fossil oil? The chemistry of that doesn't work out too well. You can get glycerol (a trihydroxy alcohol) from the oil by hydrolysis (such as occurs in soap manufacture), and the fatty acids can be converted to fatty alcohols, but these will be higher alcohols, not ethanol. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil
As I recall I used to use coconut juice as an enzyme source for plant tissue culture when I was mericloning rare plants. The nutritional value is probably what keeps the populations as healthy as they are.-Drink it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut Oil
To Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte (Mindanao) Philippines Marc, And to everyone on this list, apologies because this message should really not be on here, but I do not know your email address, so that is why I'm sending it this way. Mine by the way is [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is are numerous sites on the web dealing with coconut oil (and its health giving properties) as you would no doubt know. In one of them http://www.coconut-info.com/what_is_virgin_coconut_oil.htm there is mention of a traditional method of extracting oil from freshly harvested coconuts using fermentation in the Philippines. Does freshly harvested mean using the nuts immediately after they have fallen to the ground, does it refer to green nuts still on the palm being removed manually? Are you able to supply me with and/or point me to where I could get the details for this method. Regards, Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Coconut Oil
david surya ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to all i heard about your coconut oil discussion i got informations that maybe can help. 1. copra contains 66.0 - 74.0 % oil 17.0 - 20.0 % carbohydrates 4.5 - 7.5 % protein 2.5 - 6.0 % water 4.5 - 6.0 % fiber 2.3 - 3.5 % ash 2. about fermentation of coconut, i heard here in indonesia, they are using a kind of crab that is called yuyu. this fermentation methode can increases the yield of coconut oil until 0.15 - 0.2 litre/coconut from usual range 0.12 - 0.17 litre/coconut 3. i got the composition of fatty acid of coconut oil four main fatty acid are : - lauric acid 46.20 % - miristic acid 18.6 % - stearic acid 13.10 % - palmitic acid 10.30 % hope this infos can help them who need it. thanks all david __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil
Gerry wrote: Mature coconuts would be required as they have thicker kernel with have more oil after they have been sun dried. The plants I'm looking at are not based on copra (sundried coconut meat), but on fresh nuts. Are you quite sure that mature nuts have more oil? The meat is harder in those I've seen, and it may be a little thicker, but the only difference in the rest of the nut is that the water (liquid endosperm) has been absorbed into the meat. The water contains no oil, so I wonder whether the meat of a mature coconut contains more. Anyway, I can't find anything definite either way in the little literature that I have. The soft meat of a green nut is easier to scour out of the shell and run through the expellers. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil
Hi Gerry Most of the coconut oil comes from mature coconuts. Coming from the equatorial belt, we have alot of 'fun ' with this nuts. We squeeze freshly grated mature coconut kernel to make coconut milk which is used in making thick curry gravy. You can't make the milk out of young green coconut because they are just not 'ripe' enough. Mature coconuts does contains the endosperm, it is not abosbed into the kernel. They are sun dried simply because the sun is free. Young coconuts are popular for refreshing cocktails (the water part) and thin sweet fresh. You get more bulk with the flesh from mature nuts than the green nuts. True that the green nut's flesh can be expelled easily. But the villagers has all the time in the world and they are quite adapt at expelling flesh from the old nuts with the simple implement that they fashioned from steel. Gerry What simple implement have they fashioned from steel? Can you describe it so a person could build one? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Hans I think Robert posted what you are looking for Kirk That's for converting cellulose. What's the carbohydrate/sugar content of the coconut liquid? It should be quite high, high enough for ordinary fermenting and distillation. Hanns, you need to do a refractometer test. If you haven't got the process set up yet, you can probably do it without removing the oil first, the sugar reading should be the same either way. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ robert luis rabello wrote: I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. Thanx, Buddy Here are a couple of links you can try: http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/cellulas.htm http://www.deerland-enzymes.com/cellulase4000.htm I think you'll find this approach rather expensive right now, but good luck! robert luis rabello -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:35 AM To: Bio Fuels at Yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Coconut oil
Dear Hanns et al., The separation of coconut oil from coco milk (the water should be separated out before oil extraction, as it contains no oil) using heat is generally abandoned here due to low extraction efficiency and high energy use. I do not, unfortunately, have numbers, as the analyses and proposals I have on file are based on the use of mechanical expellers. As I have said before, high energy consumption is not necessarily a showstopper, as the availability of that energy (in both the thermodynamic and economic senses) is just as important as quantity. That is, if you can use coir and shells as your heat sources (if you have no more profitable outlets for those), then perhaps it can be made to work. As for fermenting the residue, the traditional end product of coco water is coco vinegar - wine vinegar is virtually unknown here. But I believe that acetic fermentation requires prior ethanol fermentation, so presumably there is some way to design a process that eliminates the acetobacter part of the vinegar process. Perhaps heating to the point where the residue is sterile, then (after cooling) inoculating with beer yeast and excluding air...? Looks like another bench-scale experiment is in the offing. Maybe we could design an experimental program and split the work? Were you planning to start with green coconuts or mature coconuts? Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte (Mindanao) Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
No enzymes to convert starch? Maltose maybe. And the husks maybe qualify as cellulose. Use everything but the squeal like the hog packers do. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hans I think Robert posted what you are looking for Kirk That's for converting cellulose. What's the carbohydrate/sugar content of the coconut liquid? It should be quite high, high enough for ordinary fermenting and distillation. Hanns, you need to do a refractometer test. If you haven't got the process set up yet, you can probably do it without removing the oil first, the sugar reading should be the same either way. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ robert luis rabello wrote: I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. Thanx, Buddy Here are a couple of links you can try: http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/cellulas.htm http://www.deerland-enzymes.com/cellulase4000.htm I think you'll find this approach rather expensive right now, but good luck! robert luis rabello -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:35 AM To: Bio Fuels at Yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil
Mature coconuts would be required as they have thicker kernel with have more oil after they have been sun dried. Gerry F. Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 05/21/2001 11:21:32 AM Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: Biofuel List biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) Subject: [biofuel] Coconut oil Dear Hanns et al., The separation of coconut oil from coco milk (the water should be separated out before oil extraction, as it contains no oil) using heat is generally abandoned here due to low extraction efficiency and high energy use. I do not, unfortunately, have numbers, as the analyses and proposals I have on file are based on the use of mechanical expellers. As I have said before, high energy consumption is not necessarily a showstopper, as the availability of that energy (in both the thermodynamic and economic senses) is just as important as quantity. That is, if you can use coir and shells as your heat sources (if you have no more profitable outlets for those), then perhaps it can be made to work. As for fermenting the residue, the traditional end product of coco water is coco vinegar - wine vinegar is virtually unknown here. But I believe that acetic fermentation requires prior ethanol fermentation, so presumably there is some way to design a process that eliminates the acetobacter part of the vinegar process. Perhaps heating to the point where the residue is sterile, then (after cooling) inoculating with beer yeast and excluding air...? Looks like another bench-scale experiment is in the offing. Maybe we could design an experimental program and split the work? Were you planning to start with green coconuts or mature coconuts? Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte (Mindanao) Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Kirk, Many thanks. I was thinking of using the husks for coir an the shells partly for heating and partly for the production of activated charcoal. That leaves the liquid (of the mature coconut), and as Marc de Piolenc has pointed out some form of fermentation has to be done. Hanns -Original Message- From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 2:12 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. No enzymes to convert starch? Maltose maybe. And the husks maybe qualify as cellulose. Use everything but the squeal like the hog packers do. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hans I think Robert posted what you are looking for Kirk That's for converting cellulose. What's the carbohydrate/sugar content of the coconut liquid? It should be quite high, high enough for ordinary fermenting and distillation. Hanns, you need to do a refractometer test. If you haven't got the process set up yet, you can probably do it without removing the oil first, the sugar reading should be the same either way. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ robert luis rabello wrote: I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. Thanx, Buddy Here are a couple of links you can try: http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/cellulas.htm http://www.deerland-enzymes.com/cellulase4000.htm I think you'll find this approach rather expensive right now, but good luck! robert luis rabello -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:35 AM To: Bio Fuels at Yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut oil
Dear Marc, Many thanks for your useful information. As I wrote to Kirk, my intention is to use as much as possible of the coir and shells for matting and activated charcoal production. That leaves the fermentation of the water (juice). I would certainly be happy for us to co-operate on researching and develoing a viable process. Will be returning to PNG some time (not yet fixed) next month and I will not be able to start anything practical till then. So I suggest we keep in touch. In the meantime I wonder if you are able to supply me with links or attachments containing descriptions, specificatios and other general details of fairly low tech mechanical expellers similar to that developed by Dr. Dan Etherington (but not so expensive). Since ht idea is for this process to be carried out by village communities. If you do not know about this here is Dan Etherington's web site http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au/ . Also see below. Best Regards, Hanns -Original Message- From: F. Marc de Piolenc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 1:22 PM To: Biofuel List Subject: [biofuel] Coconut oil Dear Hanns et al., The separation of coconut oil from coco milk (the water should be separated out before oil extraction, as it contains no oil) using heat is generally abandoned here due to low extraction efficiency and high energy use. I do not, unfortunately, have numbers, as the analyses and proposals I have on file are based on the use of mechanical expellers. As I have said before, high energy consumption is not necessarily a showstopper, as the availability of that energy (in both the thermodynamic and economic senses) is just as important as quantity. That is, if you can use coir and shells as your heat sources (if you have no more profitable outlets for those), then perhaps it can be made to work. As for fermenting the residue, the traditional end product of coco water is coco vinegar - wine vinegar is virtually unknown here. But I believe that acetic fermentation requires prior ethanol fermentation, so presumably there is some way to design a process that eliminates the acetobacter part of the vinegar process. Perhaps heating to the point where the residue is sterile, then (after cooling) inoculating with beer yeast and excluding air...? **As you say, there has to be prior alcohol fermentation. Perhaps it's just a question of stopping the dermentation at the correct point? Looks like another bench-scale experiment is in the offing. Maybe we could design an experimental program and split the work? Were you planning to start with green coconuts or mature coconuts? **Mature coconuts because they contain more oil and are already on the ground. Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte (Mindanao) Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Keith, Once again, thanks for your help and advice, which I will still ask for more of, being a newcomer to the biofuel movement. Please see my messages to Gerry, Marc de Piolenc and Kirk for further explanations of what I am trying to do. That is to start a village based industry in PNG (where I have close family ties) involving the production of bio fuel (import replacement, job creation, environmental conservation) and the coconut palm, because the copra industry is all but dead (income producing, job creation, etc.) and there are plenty of coconuts everywhere. Re the enzymes for cellulose conversion, I will need prices, quantities required, and more info on the actual process. This means to start learning some serious organic chemistry, about which I know very little. My expertise being in the computer and social development fields. Best Regards, Hanns -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 12:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hans I think Robert posted what you are looking for Kirk That's for converting cellulose. What's the carbohydrate/sugar content of the coconut liquid? It should be quite high, high enough for ordinary fermenting and distillation. Hanns, you need to do a refractometer test. If you haven't got the process set up yet, you can probably do it without removing the oil first, the sugar reading should be the same either way. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ robert luis rabello wrote: I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. Thanx, Buddy Here are a couple of links you can try: http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/cellulas.htm http://www.deerland-enzymes.com/cellulase4000.htm I think you'll find this approach rather expensive right now, but good luck! robert luis rabello -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:35 AM To: Bio Fuels at Yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Keith, Yes thanks, I looked at the pages but as I wrote to Keith Addison QUOTE Re the enzymes for cellulose conversion, I will need prices, quantities required, and more info on the actual process. This means to start learning some serious organic chemistry, about which I know very little. My expertise being in the computer and social development fields. UNQUOTE Hanns -Original Message- From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 5:43 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hans I think Robert posted what you are looking for Kirk robert luis rabello wrote: I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. Thanx, Buddy Here are a couple of links you can try: http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/cellulas.htm http://www.deerland-enzymes.com/cellulase4000.htm I think you'll find this approach rather expensive right now, but good luck! robert luis rabello -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:35 AM To: Bio Fuels at Yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Hello Hanns Thanks for the info. But I'm not sure why you need enzymes for cellulose conversion. That's still a very iffy field. You should be able to ferment the liquid and distill out the ethanol, normal alcohol production. Husks and shells are best used as you plan, for coir and heating and charcoal. See our Biofuels library for how-to info on distilling. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Keith, Once again, thanks for your help and advice, which I will still ask for more of, being a newcomer to the biofuel movement. Please see my messages to Gerry, Marc de Piolenc and Kirk for further explanations of what I am trying to do. That is to start a village based industry in PNG (where I have close family ties) involving the production of bio fuel (import replacement, job creation, environmental conservation) and the coconut palm, because the copra industry is all but dead (income producing, job creation, etc.) and there are plenty of coconuts everywhere. It's a good scheme, but you'll need a more appropriate technology than Etherington's if it's really to benefit the local people. It's rather easy to end up widening the income gap and further excluding the very people you're trying to help. You should ask VITA if they have a good technology for this, or ITDG, or ECHO, few others. More info here: http://journeytoforever.org/at_link.html Appropriate technology resources Re the enzymes for cellulose conversion, I will need prices, quantities required, and more info on the actual process. This means to start learning some serious organic chemistry, about which I know very little. Maybe not. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ My expertise being in the computer and social development fields. Best Regards, Hanns -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 12:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hans I think Robert posted what you are looking for Kirk That's for converting cellulose. What's the carbohydrate/sugar content of the coconut liquid? It should be quite high, high enough for ordinary fermenting and distillation. Hanns, you need to do a refractometer test. If you haven't got the process set up yet, you can probably do it without removing the oil first, the sugar reading should be the same either way. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ robert luis rabello wrote: I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. Thanx, Buddy Here are a couple of links you can try: http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/cellulas.htm http://www.deerland-enzymes.com/cellulase4000.htm I think you'll find this approach rather expensive right now, but good luck! robert luis rabello -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:35 AM To: Bio Fuels at Yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http
RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Dear Hanns For heating I would look to the sun, at least in part. Not so good at night, but the rest of the time a powerful source. Kirk -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 3:08 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Kirk, Many thanks. I was thinking of using the husks for coir an the shells partly for heating and partly for the production of activated charcoal. That leaves the liquid (of the mature coconut), and as Marc de Piolenc has pointed out some form of fermentation has to be done. Hanns -Original Message- From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 2:12 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. No enzymes to convert starch? Maltose maybe. And the husks maybe qualify as cellulose. Use everything but the squeal like the hog packers do. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:24 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hans I think Robert posted what you are looking for Kirk That's for converting cellulose. What's the carbohydrate/sugar content of the coconut liquid? It should be quite high, high enough for ordinary fermenting and distillation. Hanns, you need to do a refractometer test. If you haven't got the process set up yet, you can probably do it without removing the oil first, the sugar reading should be the same either way. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ robert luis rabello wrote: I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. Thanx, Buddy Here are a couple of links you can try: http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/cellulas.htm http://www.deerland-enzymes.com/cellulase4000.htm I think you'll find this approach rather expensive right now, but good luck! robert luis rabello -Original Message- From: Hanns B. Wetzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:35 AM To: Bio Fuels at Yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Coconut Oil etc. Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com
