Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:53:45 +0100, you wrote: MM, A very good idea, let a computer do what people did in ancient times, but forgot now. It would actually give quite good energy savings. We could even let it utilize the mass storage of the home, instead of what most systems do today, fight it. The Californian type of energy crises could be much less, if this was applied. The stage of todays control systems is sad. Hakan I was thinking, in addition to this, that there are multiple aspects of home-energy-use that would benefit from some in-built ability of the house to detect time-of-day and conditions and adjust accordingly. This could include not only shades, blinds and shutters, but also such boring-sounding issues as shutting on-and-off night-time outdoor lights. Someday I also think that, in certain climates, maybe a refrigerator could be moveable so that it could source cool air and vent heat to the outside or the inside depending on outdoor conditions and desired indoor conditions. We are discussing not only retrofitting with individual devices, but recommended thinking for the future, for individual home-builders and developers of communities. Sometimes you and I and others may be met with the thinking ah, but it's not wanted, it's not presently the cheapest way and the developers don't give a damn and this is often (not always, but often) attached to the extremely petty attack no one will ever want it... it's uneconomical now and who cares because it never can be in the near future,... you are just some economically unrealistic idealist, ...but that can all change in an economic heartbeat, as yesterday's wacky green thinking becomes tomorrow's desireable homebuilding procedures... and after the next time that, gosh-gee-whillackers-batman, the price of natural gas triples along with the price of electricity, in some area. We are already seeing signs in some ways that consumers, in America and elsewhere, are more impressed with the green wacky thinking of Organic and sustainable food-raising, that they see some logic in it and they are seeing some more reasonable prices. [I keep thinking that keeping some rules-of-Kosher has been a practice of some for so long... in many different religions... many thousands of yearsso keeping to some sustainable practices in raising and delivering and storing and eating food is not a new or wacky concept, at all, in any way.] So, the old petty attacks which marginalized advocates of sustainability are no longer as powerful, and the attackers may find their voices dropping as they wish to hide how irrational and petty they once were. Likewise, with innovative home-energy-saving thinking such as you are collecting on your website, we will at some point see some of these ideas become mainstream. It will take a combination of good-old-fashioned-price-problems and some other factors such as homebuilders gradually seeing green homes as fetching desireable prices. By keeping an informative web-page up and running, over time, some of them will get ideas from you. You never know where or when it will happen that you affect someone's thinking. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Send the freshest Valentine's flowers with a FREE vase from only $29.99! Shipped direct from the grower with a 7 day freshness guarantee and prices so low you save 30-55% off retail! http://us.click.yahoo.com/_iAw9B/xdlHAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
I went and saw some more examples myself. Shades and blinds do seem to be given ratings such as R Value (keeping the heat in) and some sort of Solar Coefficient (the lower the better, for keeping the solar heat out when not wanted), as well as a person having to define how much opacity they want. Hunter Douglas had their own battery-powered device (rather than just sending them to a third party like Insolroll), so I guess there's more than one way to do the powered-shade thing. I can second your pricey-side conclusion. On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:39:44 -0700, you wrote: I have seen these or something like these, at a local home and garden show, and they could be set up to open and close automatically, depending on the time of day ( I think that they were working on a controller that worked with a light sensor, shutting them after the light reached a certain brightness or darkness ). They are very secure, and on the pricey side. Greg H. Subject: Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners. I found these: http://www.insolroll.com/rolling/index.html which advertise that they are European Style Shutters. It occurrs to me that, with the sort of motorization this company provides (generally they tell me their thing is motorization of other people's shades), one could try to program a computer to open and shut the screens and shades and shutters for maximum energy rejection or retention, depending on time-of-year factors, weather-detected-that-day, desired lighting by the home occupant, etc. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
I have seen these or something like these, at a local home and garden show, and they could be set up to open and close automatically, depending on the time of day ( I think that they were working on a controller that worked with a light sensor, shutting them after the light reached a certain brightness or darkness ). They are very secure, and on the pricey side. Greg H. - Original Message - From: murdoch To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 10:15 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners. I found these: http://www.insolroll.com/rolling/index.html which advertise that they are European Style Shutters. It occurrs to me that, with the sort of motorization this company provides (generally they tell me their thing is motorization of other people's shades), one could try to program a computer to open and shut the screens and shades and shutters for maximum energy rejection or retention, depending on time-of-year factors, weather-detected-that-day, desired lighting by the home occupant, etc. On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:16:48 +0100, you wrote: MM, I know that you understand how it works, but many does not. On an other discussion, I got the question that I thought many should ask and the discussion is at the end of this mail. At 19:23 03/02/2004, you wrote: Good one. I was just looking at some fountains yesterday for outdoors, and thought of your comments as to how folks will be drawn to city areas where fountains are placed. On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:55:33 +0100, you wrote: MM, I am glad that you found rope curtains interesting and wrote, Ancient AC units or, humidity is more important. http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtmlhttp://energysavingno w.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtml snip You have to give it to the person who was skeptical, he did have the guts to voice it, many does not. This, because many do not understand it, even most of HVAC engineers and it is better that I explain it for them. I will try to insert the explanation in the original article. Answer on first mail My answer is inserted in the question, I will explain it. Click on the link, http://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIFhttp://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIF This is the Molliere diagram and show how much water (horizontal axis) air contains at different % of relative humidity (curves), with different temperature (vertical axis). The Air cannot contain more than 100% humidity. The body cannot use transpiration to get rid of its energy at 100% humidity, if it cannot compensate the body temperature will go up and fever will occur, which is very uncomfortable. In normal conditions the body use evaporation to get rid of 22% of its energy. If you do physical work it needs more evaporation and an athlete can produce up to 1 kW body heat during exercise. Look at 10 degree Celsius and 100% humidity and you find that the air contains 7.5 g/kg. If you then heat up the air and move along the vertical axis, you find that the relative humidity is around 73% and can take up 3 g/kg water more to reach 100% humidity. The body will be able to use this and feel more comfortable. Look at 10 degree again and change the temperature to 5 degree Celsius and follow it to the 100% curve and you can see that you end up at 5.5 g/kg air. The difference 7.5 - 5.5 = 2 g/kg cannot stay in the air and will fall out to surfaces. Inserted is the logic and how it works, At 18:00 26/01/2004, you wrote: Thanks, Hakan, for spreading lots of good information on energy efficiency. However, your latest subtlety regarding the rope curtain has me a bit skeptical. I'm wondering if rope curtain as dehumidifier is really a correct explanation of a mode in which a rope curtain can operate? I can see how it would humidify via a wicking effect, I did not talk about wicking effect, that will not work. I talked about adding water and this must be done from the top of the curtain. but I don't see how to use it to dehumidify. Here's my logic. If we follow Mollier's logic it works as I said, it is a little bit different. Rope curtain as humidifier: by keeping the rope wet (say, by putting one or both ends into a pail of water), passing air can be humidified. The enthalpy of the air stays the same, but its temperature decreases as it gives up some heat to the evaporation process. Comfort is enhanced (in times of dry heat) by reducing the temperature, and the comfort cost if the increased humidity does not, hopefully, offset all of that benefit (there must be a point on the psychrometric chart where comfort is enhanced by an enthalpy-neutral move toward increased humidity). Cool down very humid air
Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
I found these: http://www.insolroll.com/rolling/index.html which advertise that they are European Style Shutters. It occurrs to me that, with the sort of motorization this company provides (generally they tell me their thing is motorization of other people's shades), one could try to program a computer to open and shut the screens and shades and shutters for maximum energy rejection or retention, depending on time-of-year factors, weather-detected-that-day, desired lighting by the home occupant, etc. On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:16:48 +0100, you wrote: MM, I know that you understand how it works, but many does not. On an other discussion, I got the question that I thought many should ask and the discussion is at the end of this mail. At 19:23 03/02/2004, you wrote: Good one. I was just looking at some fountains yesterday for outdoors, and thought of your comments as to how folks will be drawn to city areas where fountains are placed. On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:55:33 +0100, you wrote: MM, I am glad that you found rope curtains interesting and wrote, Ancient AC units or, humidity is more important. http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtmlhttp://energysavingno w.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtml snip You have to give it to the person who was skeptical, he did have the guts to voice it, many does not. This, because many do not understand it, even most of HVAC engineers and it is better that I explain it for them. I will try to insert the explanation in the original article. Answer on first mail My answer is inserted in the question, I will explain it. Click on the link, http://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIFhttp://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIF This is the Molliere diagram and show how much water (horizontal axis) air contains at different % of relative humidity (curves), with different temperature (vertical axis). The Air cannot contain more than 100% humidity. The body cannot use transpiration to get rid of its energy at 100% humidity, if it cannot compensate the body temperature will go up and fever will occur, which is very uncomfortable. In normal conditions the body use evaporation to get rid of 22% of its energy. If you do physical work it needs more evaporation and an athlete can produce up to 1 kW body heat during exercise. Look at 10 degree Celsius and 100% humidity and you find that the air contains 7.5 g/kg. If you then heat up the air and move along the vertical axis, you find that the relative humidity is around 73% and can take up 3 g/kg water more to reach 100% humidity. The body will be able to use this and feel more comfortable. Look at 10 degree again and change the temperature to 5 degree Celsius and follow it to the 100% curve and you can see that you end up at 5.5 g/kg air. The difference 7.5 - 5.5 = 2 g/kg cannot stay in the air and will fall out to surfaces. Inserted is the logic and how it works, At 18:00 26/01/2004, you wrote: Thanks, Hakan, for spreading lots of good information on energy efficiency. However, your latest subtlety regarding the rope curtain has me a bit skeptical. I'm wondering if rope curtain as dehumidifier is really a correct explanation of a mode in which a rope curtain can operate? I can see how it would humidify via a wicking effect, I did not talk about wicking effect, that will not work. I talked about adding water and this must be done from the top of the curtain. but I don't see how to use it to dehumidify. Here's my logic. If we follow Mollier's logic it works as I said, it is a little bit different. Rope curtain as humidifier: by keeping the rope wet (say, by putting one or both ends into a pail of water), passing air can be humidified. The enthalpy of the air stays the same, but its temperature decreases as it gives up some heat to the evaporation process. Comfort is enhanced (in times of dry heat) by reducing the temperature, and the comfort cost if the increased humidity does not, hopefully, offset all of that benefit (there must be a point on the psychrometric chart where comfort is enhanced by an enthalpy-neutral move toward increased humidity). Cool down very humid air in the curtain and water will fall out to the cooler water that is constantly applied, since the air cannot have more than 100% humidity. Chiller towers in the AC technology works also in this way. Rope curtain as dehumidifier: by keeping the rope curtain cool and/or dry, passing air is dehumidified. (Presumably water must be removed from the rope Water will flow from the top to bottom, where it is channeled out or in a deposit. curtain as the condensation occurs -- how? -- and the rope curtain may also be cooled but not by evaporation -- so how?) The enthalpy of the air stays the same (or is decreased if the rope curtain is cooled) while its temperature increases as it gains some heat from the condensation process. Comfort is enhanced (in times of
Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
MM, A very good idea, let a computer do what people did in ancient times, but forgot now. It would actually give quite good energy savings. We could even let it utilize the mass storage of the home, instead of what most systems do today, fight it. The Californian type of energy crises could be much less, if this was applied. The stage of todays control systems is sad. Hakan At 18:15 10/02/2004, you wrote: I found these: http://www.insolroll.com/rolling/index.htmlhttp://www.insolroll.com/rolling/index.html which advertise that they are European Style Shutters. It occurrs to me that, with the sort of motorization this company provides (generally they tell me their thing is motorization of other people's shades), one could try to program a computer to open and shut the screens and shades and shutters for maximum energy rejection or retention, depending on time-of-year factors, weather-detected-that-day, desired lighting by the home occupant, etc. On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 19:16:48 +0100, you wrote: MM, I know that you understand how it works, but many does not. On an other discussion, I got the question that I thought many should ask and the discussion is at the end of this mail. At 19:23 03/02/2004, you wrote: Good one. I was just looking at some fountains yesterday for outdoors, and thought of your comments as to how folks will be drawn to city areas where fountains are placed. On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:55:33 +0100, you wrote: MM, I am glad that you found rope curtains interesting and wrote, Ancient AC units or, humidity is more important. http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtmlhttp://energysavi ngnow.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtmlhttp://energysavingno w.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtml snip You have to give it to the person who was skeptical, he did have the guts to voice it, many does not. This, because many do not understand it, even most of HVAC engineers and it is better that I explain it for them. I will try to insert the explanation in the original article. Answer on first mail My answer is inserted in the question, I will explain it. Click on the link, http://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIFhttp://energy.saving.nu /help/intro/IMG1.GIFhttp://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIF This is the Molliere diagram and show how much water (horizontal axis) air contains at different % of relative humidity (curves), with different temperature (vertical axis). The Air cannot contain more than 100% humidity. The body cannot use transpiration to get rid of its energy at 100% humidity, if it cannot compensate the body temperature will go up and fever will occur, which is very uncomfortable. In normal conditions the body use evaporation to get rid of 22% of its energy. If you do physical work it needs more evaporation and an athlete can produce up to 1 kW body heat during exercise. Look at 10 degree Celsius and 100% humidity and you find that the air contains 7.5 g/kg. If you then heat up the air and move along the vertical axis, you find that the relative humidity is around 73% and can take up 3 g/kg water more to reach 100% humidity. The body will be able to use this and feel more comfortable. Look at 10 degree again and change the temperature to 5 degree Celsius and follow it to the 100% curve and you can see that you end up at 5.5 g/kg air. The difference 7.5 - 5.5 = 2 g/kg cannot stay in the air and will fall out to surfaces. Inserted is the logic and how it works, At 18:00 26/01/2004, you wrote: Thanks, Hakan, for spreading lots of good information on energy efficiency. However, your latest subtlety regarding the rope curtain has me a bit skeptical. I'm wondering if rope curtain as dehumidifier is really a correct explanation of a mode in which a rope curtain can operate? I can see how it would humidify via a wicking effect, I did not talk about wicking effect, that will not work. I talked about adding water and this must be done from the top of the curtain. but I don't see how to use it to dehumidify. Here's my logic. If we follow Mollier's logic it works as I said, it is a little bit different. Rope curtain as humidifier: by keeping the rope wet (say, by putting one or both ends into a pail of water), passing air can be humidified. The enthalpy of the air stays the same, but its temperature decreases as it gives up some heat to the evaporation process. Comfort is enhanced (in times of dry heat) by reducing the temperature, and the comfort cost if the increased humidity does not, hopefully, offset all of that benefit (there must be a point on the psychrometric chart where comfort is enhanced by an enthalpy-neutral move toward increased humidity). Cool down very humid air in the curtain and water will fall out to the cooler water that is constantly applied, since the air cannot have more
Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
MM, I know that you understand how it works, but many does not. On an other discussion, I got the question that I thought many should ask and the discussion is at the end of this mail. At 19:23 03/02/2004, you wrote: Good one. I was just looking at some fountains yesterday for outdoors, and thought of your comments as to how folks will be drawn to city areas where fountains are placed. On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:55:33 +0100, you wrote: MM, I am glad that you found rope curtains interesting and wrote, Ancient AC units or, humidity is more important. http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtmlhttp://energysavingno w.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtml snip You have to give it to the person who was skeptical, he did have the guts to voice it, many does not. This, because many do not understand it, even most of HVAC engineers and it is better that I explain it for them. I will try to insert the explanation in the original article. Answer on first mail My answer is inserted in the question, I will explain it. Click on the link, http://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIFhttp://energy.saving.nu/help/intro/IMG1.GIF This is the Molliere diagram and show how much water (horizontal axis) air contains at different % of relative humidity (curves), with different temperature (vertical axis). The Air cannot contain more than 100% humidity. The body cannot use transpiration to get rid of its energy at 100% humidity, if it cannot compensate the body temperature will go up and fever will occur, which is very uncomfortable. In normal conditions the body use evaporation to get rid of 22% of its energy. If you do physical work it needs more evaporation and an athlete can produce up to 1 kW body heat during exercise. Look at 10 degree Celsius and 100% humidity and you find that the air contains 7.5 g/kg. If you then heat up the air and move along the vertical axis, you find that the relative humidity is around 73% and can take up 3 g/kg water more to reach 100% humidity. The body will be able to use this and feel more comfortable. Look at 10 degree again and change the temperature to 5 degree Celsius and follow it to the 100% curve and you can see that you end up at 5.5 g/kg air. The difference 7.5 - 5.5 = 2 g/kg cannot stay in the air and will fall out to surfaces. Inserted is the logic and how it works, At 18:00 26/01/2004, you wrote: Thanks, Hakan, for spreading lots of good information on energy efficiency. However, your latest subtlety regarding the rope curtain has me a bit skeptical. I'm wondering if rope curtain as dehumidifier is really a correct explanation of a mode in which a rope curtain can operate? I can see how it would humidify via a wicking effect, I did not talk about wicking effect, that will not work. I talked about adding water and this must be done from the top of the curtain. but I don't see how to use it to dehumidify. Here's my logic. If we follow Mollier's logic it works as I said, it is a little bit different. Rope curtain as humidifier: by keeping the rope wet (say, by putting one or both ends into a pail of water), passing air can be humidified. The enthalpy of the air stays the same, but its temperature decreases as it gives up some heat to the evaporation process. Comfort is enhanced (in times of dry heat) by reducing the temperature, and the comfort cost if the increased humidity does not, hopefully, offset all of that benefit (there must be a point on the psychrometric chart where comfort is enhanced by an enthalpy-neutral move toward increased humidity). Cool down very humid air in the curtain and water will fall out to the cooler water that is constantly applied, since the air cannot have more than 100% humidity. Chiller towers in the AC technology works also in this way. Rope curtain as dehumidifier: by keeping the rope curtain cool and/or dry, passing air is dehumidified. (Presumably water must be removed from the rope Water will flow from the top to bottom, where it is channeled out or in a deposit. curtain as the condensation occurs -- how? -- and the rope curtain may also be cooled but not by evaporation -- so how?) The enthalpy of the air stays the same (or is decreased if the rope curtain is cooled) while its temperature increases as it gains some heat from the condensation process. Comfort is enhanced (in times of high humidity) by reducing the humidity, and the comfort cost of the increased temperature does not, hopefully, offset all of that benefit (there must be a point on the psychrometric chart where comfort is enhanced by an enthalpy-neutral move toward decreased humidity, unless active cooling of the rope curtain is used). Active cooling is applied with the cooler water that is added to it. The added heat will be carried away by the water. Mostly, I don't see how to cool a rope curtain non-evaporatively. So, I can't see how it would implement
Re: [biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
Good one. I was just looking at some fountains yesterday for outdoors, and thought of your comments as to how folks will be drawn to city areas where fountains are placed. On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:55:33 +0100, you wrote: MM, I am glad that you found rope curtains interesting and wrote, Ancient AC units or, humidity is more important. http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtml and incorporated it in, First aid for house owners. Final draft, Jan. 2004. http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/ Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Rope curtains was: First aid for house owners.
MM, I am glad that you found rope curtains interesting and wrote, Ancient AC units or, humidity is more important. http://energysavingnow.com/hvac/ropecurtains.shtml and incorporated it in, First aid for house owners. Final draft, Jan. 2004. http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/http://www.energysavingnow.com/firstaid/ Hakan At 03:57 24/01/2004, you wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 02:28:59 +0100, you wrote: MM, The best effect from shutters is if they are outside. Historically the are very common in the south European countries and there they are historically a massive window/door on the outside and opens out and locks against the wall , the windows/glass doors are either sliding or opens to the inside. The most commonly used today is shutters that rolls up in a box above the window/door, I bought ones with electrical engine since that make a good habit easier and it can also be programmable with a clock. The second best is to have thin shutters between window glasses that is aluminium pieces with variable angle. Excuse me, if I do not know the common name in English, I am almost sure that they have special names. The next least efficient is aluminium shutters or extra curtains with aluminium surfaces, placed on the inside of windows/doors. I think that all can understand why. The least efficient is the common curtains, but they still have a noticeable effect in interacting between the body and a cold/hot surface. It is only between 50 to 100 years ago, when they still had tapestry of textile on the inside of exterior walls, to manipulate and achieve higher surface temperatures. In rich homes of course. Much technology get forgotten or the original reason for them. [...] I will stop here, otherwise you will be bored to death by my ranting. Hakan I think it's interesting, and I see no reason you shouldn't maintain it as part of your first aid page, or perhaps as an adjunct to that page. On the issue of the functional door shutters you describe above, I was wondering if they could be installed on the face of such a large glass expanse as I have, where the sliding glass doors must be about 7meters long and about 2 meters high. When I think of a wood shutter, it's something a bit more modest. But perhaps one of these motorized gadgets could be installed in a series, to cover the whole expanse. In my initial searches, the other green-building type sites didn't seem to do a good job in discussing window treatment type issues, so thanks for the help you've given. One interesting (too brief) discussion that I finally did find might interest you or others here: http://www.buildinggreen.com/elists/shades.cfmhttp://www.buildinggreen.com/elists/shades.cfm That discussion was interesting, but not too comprehensive, and pretty brief. I have to add something that has nothing to do with window treatments: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/20/science/space/20GEL.html?ex=1075179600en=47b769c5dbc8bd9cei=5062partner=GOOGLEhttp://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/20/science/space/20GEL.html?ex=1075179600en=47b769c5dbc8bd9cei=5062partner=GOOGLE This was sent to me by a friend the other day. At first glance it might not seem relevant to your project, but check this out: In the 1980's, Dr. Tsou and others began to work with the material. It has 14 Guinness Book of World Records-type properties, Dr. Tsou said. It's the lowest density of any solid, and it has the highest thermoinsulation properties. Though it would be very expensive, you could take a two- or three-bedroom house, insulate it with aerogel, and you could heat the house with a candle. But eventually the house would become too hot. Ok, so it doesn't meet your ready-for-use criteria, but it's pretty interesting, huh? MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuelhttp://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject
