Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Ted, in my experience, working with a number of inventors in the private sector (in a small Government program providing grant support for the development of inventions - DOE's Energy-Related Inventions Program), after the development and testing of the prototype, and this was particularly true of process development, these inventors each needed big money in order to get the technology into the marketplace. In order to get big money (usually millions of dollars) these inventors had to convince venture capitalists to provide that support. Aside from business management capabilities, venture capitalists want to see a proprietary position, because no way are they going to provide capital to market a process where the technology is available to anyone. What belongs to everyone really belongs to no one. So, further development is not going to take place without this proprietary position. And, as to costing the public big time for what they have already in essense paid for, the public is not going to profit until the technology has gotten into the marketplace. And, my belief, and as I believe the historical record shows, technologies don't generally get into the marketplace without someone with a proprietary position bringing them there. With rare exceptions, most of the technologies that have impacted the marketplace and been responsible for our high standard of living have come from small business and the private sector. What are the instances of this happening without the proprietary position? Is Lockheed Martin going to market this particular technology? Not unless it falls within their mission interests to do so. Is the Government going to market this technology? I don't think so. Aside from building technology to suit their own purposes (NASA and DOD) I don't recollect them having much, if any, success in getting technology into the market. The National Labs haven't been that successful yet in marketing technology. They are great developers, e.g. nuclear power, but they sure haven''t been successful at marketing nuclear power. Maybe the group here will come up with a new system of getting biodiesel into the marketplace without requiring huge funding. But, my guess is that once you have developed a system that works and shows promise of capturing a good share of the fuels market, one of the biggies with production and distribution capabilities and copious capital will come in and take over, especially if you don't have a proprietary position. That is the way the capitalistic system works, and that is one big reason, as recently demonstrated in the case of Russia, that socialism can't compete. This is not to say, however, that the individual can't make and use his own biodiesel /wvo and enjoy some independence from the system, as I hope to do someday. Glenn Ellis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] solid catalyst
Hi Keith and Everyone, I would be glad to post a small part of the process using a solid catalyst from the Fox/Ginosaur et al Patent. Hopefully this will give everyone an idea as to how difficult the process really is and may shed some light on the ongoing mystery about this fabled process. It will take a little time for me to get this posted (this weekend), so let me know if you would like for me to do this. David Cruse [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Hi Glenn snip Is Lockheed Martin going to market this particular technology? Not unless it falls within their mission interests to do so. Which it might do - they're involved in hybrids, and biodiesel makes good sense with hybrids. Is the Government going to market this technology? I don't think so. Aside from building technology to suit their own purposes (NASA and DOD) I don't recollect them having much, if any, success in getting technology into the market. The National Labs haven't been that successful yet in marketing technology. They are great developers, e.g. nuclear power, but they sure haven''t been successful at marketing nuclear power. Maybe the group here will come up with a new system of getting biodiesel into the marketplace without requiring huge funding. But, my guess is that once you have developed a system that works and shows promise of capturing a good share of the fuels market, one of the biggies with production and distribution capabilities and copious capital will come in and take over, especially if you don't have a proprietary position. That is the way the capitalistic system works, and that is one big reason, as recently demonstrated in the case of Russia, that socialism can't compete. This is not to say, however, that the individual can't make and use his own biodiesel /wvo and enjoy some independence from the system, as I hope to do someday. Glenn Ellis Many of us here keep saying that it's most important that the introduction of biodiesel and other biofuels goes hand-in-hand with a bio-regional approach emphasising local markets, local needs, local inputs, local sustainability, using and leveraging the infinite variety of local conditions - local self-sufficiency. There are zillions of good reasons for this, quite apart from fuel and energy reasons, but unless it's done that way it is most likely we'll all be muscled aside by the big guys as soon as we start getting somewhere, as you say. The same big guys who've already screwed up so much in the last hundred years or so. Steve Spence once commented here that he wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years we were all fighting Big Ethanol (ADM etc) tooth and nail the way we fight Big Oil now, and for much the same reasons. It's possible to do anything badly, he said. Indeed. For us, I believe small local initiatives are the way forward, starting with individual efforts, growing locally, networking, collaborating, sharing resources with others, taking firm root in the ground, not in the rarified atmosphere of some big-city boardroom. Grow like kudzu! I don't agree with you here: What belongs to everyone really belongs to no one. So, further development is not going to take place without this proprietary position. I think what belongs to eeryone can indeed be taken up and used freely by people on the local level without massive resources to build the kind of network I've described. After all, we used to do almost everything that way, like grow our food, for instance, very successfully, and there's a strong movement to return to those ways - return forwards that is, not an exercise in nostalgia, using modern methods where apt. After all, little is gained from the massive distances the average supermarket tomato has travelled to reach that shelf, and much lost. I certainly do agree with you here though: With rare exceptions, most of the technologies that have impacted the marketplace and been responsible for our high standard of living have come from small business and the private sector. When you think about it, very little indeed of their business, management, marketing, manufacturing etc methods and practices were proprietory, mostly just common practice, belonging to everyone. Big business isn't truly capitalism, it's long since departed from that. Capitalism works best small-scale. I think this has relevance to biofuels today. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
I just did a search of the US patent office website entered Fox AND Ginosar in the inventor terms search and got patent # 6,103,948: Solid catalyzed isoparafin alkylation at supercritical fluid and near-supercritical fluid conditions Abstract: This invention relates to an improved method for the alkylation reaction of isoparaffins with olefins over solid catalysts including contacting a mixture of an isoparaffin, an olefin and a phase-modifying material with a solid acid catalyst member under alkylation conversion conditions at either supercritical fluid, or near-supercritical fluid conditions, at a temperature and a pressure relative to the critical temperature(T.sub.c) and the critical pressure(P.sub.c) of the reaction mixture. The phase-modifying phase-modifying material is employed to promote the reaction's achievement of either a supercritical fluid state or a near-supercritical state while simultaneously allowing for decreased reaction temperature and longer catalyst life. (I'm not a chemist ) The assignee is Bechtel BWXT Idaho LLC of Idaho Falls, the biggest town near the INEEL. Although INEEL is a government lab it is populated with private corporate interests. Arne. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Hi Arne, This is not the Patent on the biodiesel process ! David Cruse - Original Message - From: Arne P. Ryason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst I just did a search of the US patent office website entered Fox AND Ginosar in the inventor terms search and got patent # 6,103,948: Solid catalyzed isoparafin alkylation at supercritical fluid and near-supercritical fluid conditions Abstract: This invention relates to an improved method for the alkylation reaction of isoparaffins with olefins over solid catalysts including contacting a mixture of an isoparaffin, an olefin and a phase-modifying material with a solid acid catalyst member under alkylation conversion conditions at either supercritical fluid, or near-supercritical fluid conditions, at a temperature and a pressure relative to the critical temperature(T.sub.c) and the critical pressure(P.sub.c) of the reaction mixture. The phase-modifying phase-modifying material is employed to promote the reaction's achievement of either a supercritical fluid state or a near-supercritical state while simultaneously allowing for decreased reaction temperature and longer catalyst life. (I'm not a chemist ) The assignee is Bechtel BWXT Idaho LLC of Idaho Falls, the biggest town near the INEEL. Although INEEL is a government lab it is populated with private corporate interests. Arne. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solid catalyst
Has anybody done any digging on-line? What do we know about this process so far? I must have missed earlier posts, so all I have is the name INEEL and the fact that it involves a solid catalyst. Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Laboratories such as INEEL usually develop industrial processes, obtain a patent for the process, then sell it to the highest bidder for continued funding of the laboratory. In this case, I would bet that the purchaser was one of the seven sisters, who promptly buried the book as deep as they could, in order to protect their established petroleum-based business. Many such events are known to have happened in the past. Andy Stepkowski Santa Cruz, Bolivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, From: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html US Department of Energy Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) scientists have developed a new method that produces a higher grade biodiesel with less waste at a lower cost and in much less time. The process, using used French fry oil, is continuous, with no wastewater, producing a cleaner, higher grade of both biodiesel and glycerine. The much higher quality glycerine produced by the new process is valuable -- close to US$10 per gallon. The researchers say sales of the glycerine could pay for the entire process, making the price of biodiesel around the same as regular petrodiesel in the US. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar99/1999L-03-11-02.html The researchers' names are Bob Fox and Dan Ginosar. The story was posted nearly three years ago. It's been discussed here several times (see archives). When last heard about they were still negotiating for commercial funding, one can't help wondering why it's taking so long if it's such a promising process. Maybe somebody nearby would like to check with them? They've been friendly and approachable in the past, just won't tell you the secret. Here's another one: A new process developed at the University of Toronto speeds the manufacturing process and reduces both the construction and capital costs of biodiesel production facilities. Production time is reduced from 2-4 hours to seven minutes in a continuous production process. (Email Prof. Dave Boocock [EMAIL PROTECTED]) See: Technology -- New Process Cuts Time, Costs: http://www.biodiesel.org/bio_reports/junbdreport.htm Process now licensed to BIOX for commercial production: http://www.bioxcorp.com/ Also discussed here several times, with some good info posted (see BIOX in archives). Meanwhile, re production revolutions, while the INEEL lead-to-gold process has languished, if indeed that's what it's doing, ENERGIES... week of December 30, 2001 (posted to the list yesterday) reports a 40-fold biodiesel production increase in the US over the last two years - from half a million gallons of B-100 shipped in 1999 to 20 million in 2001. Not bad. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ In my humble opinion, the process described seems the counterpart to the alchemists recipe for turning lead into gold. A process as described would, as Dana said, revolutionize production. Count me into the subject, though I don´t know what you´re implying with this. Sure, when I find some time, I´ll try to look it up. Any hints regarding a little more detail on the process, or where it came from?... just so as to get started. I was currently trying to do some testing with hydrochloric and ethanol.. but my whole first attempt processor project (traditional NaOH Meth recipe) is currently quite delayed due to the fact that all imported goods have gone up by 40% in the past week (due to the currency problems here in Argentina). Hope to hear more on the subject Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, Arne, I have not heard any further info on the process you describe. Of course this type of continuous process biodiesel/glycerin production would REVOLUTIONIZE home production of BD if made available. It would also work well in conjunction with the inexpensive WVO/SVO processing modules I am attempting to design and integrate. As I stated before even a very expensive catalyst module would pay for itself if shared by a group of users to maximize its use either by forming a cooperative around a shared WVO/SVO/biodiesel processor or by shipping the expensive catalyst module from one (otherwise inexpensive) home processor to another. I believe that this deserves more thorough investigation. Unfortunately, as you can see from my recent posts I already have a rather full plate. If there are three or four others that are willing to join forces to dig deeper I am more than willing to contribute to the effort as best I can. alarge oart of my living hinges on gathering
[biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Or rather no catalyst have a look at http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/pdfs/bcota/abstracts/19/z191.pdf having a go at a processor but I don't think ill stand too close while I pump the methanol into a 350degrees C tank at 4000PSI ;-) hope this was a uni professor and not a bored 12YO writing for fun!! Regards JohnH Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solid catalyst KGPE
To all, Thx all for the posts on solid cat. I think I recall something from one of my classes (courses?) (...whatever they«re called), this year. In some place it mentioned the use of potassium methoxide (KGME, or CH3-O-CH2-CH2-OK) and KGPE (Potassium Glyme Poly Ethilene). I think it was used in some dechlorination process for PCBs. The point is that KGPE is something like this: KO-[-CH2-CH2-]n-CH2-CH2-O-K (I think this was what the molecule looked like) Being the sodium methoxide the catalyst in the traditional Mike Pelly recipe (though I«ve never liked the word catalyst here, «cause the methoxide DOES react with the oil), couldn«t it be possible that the misterious catalyst mentioned in this whole discussion on solid catalysts, is in fact something like KGPE, or maybe NaGPE? Someone mentioned it was a polymer. Plus, the chemical properties of sucha a polymer shouldn«t differ that much from traditional methoxide. Then again, I wouldn«t see why this KGME wouldn«t react and dissappear (thus, not being a catalyst at all)- Please let me know if this polymer stuff rings a bell somewhere. If so, I«ll do a bit more research on this KGPE stuff. Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 1:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, The Fox-Ginosar process (INEEL) apparently uses a polymer. I posted this to the list a long time ago, I don't know if anyone ever picked it up: A message from Mike Pelly re solid phase catalysts: I have been getting ready to pick up some of that type of catalysts but have not till now. Not sure just what worked. I understand a chemical that is called Dowex works too. (Also need to retrofit my processor to make it happen.) I'm writing to pass along to you an idea I have on using a solid phase catalyst without going through the process of gluing it in place. My plans are to contain it in a tube that has screens with mesh finer than the catalyst at either end. The grease and alcohol is pumped through this in-line (filter-type) device. In simplistic terms it would be like placing the catalysts between two sink faucet screens and plumbing it in-line on a reactor like the one Dale Scroggins built. Also the part with unions at both ends, could be easily removed for easy cleaning, back flushing and recharging of catalyst. David Reid posted this: Points to start and research: (From the Woollatt book but remember published 1985). Bleaching and the treatment of Distillates with ion-exchange resins to upgrade quality : initial bleaching with 0.2-2.0% activated carbon ion-exchange resins from Rohm and Haas instead of or after a.c. [Macrorecticular resins (which have large discrete pores capable of removing relatively large molecular mass compounds from the liquid) are normally best for this duty which demands the removal of organic, rather than ionic, impurities ]. Sound ideal in this instance to me. eg: Amberlite 200 or 200C - strong cation resin . Amberlite IRA-93 - weak base anion resin. Amberlite IRA-900 - strong base anion resin Deodorization, using heat and open steam, under vacuum, following treatment often necessary. Production of refined grades of glycerine without distillation: Ion exclusion: process developed by Dow Chemical Co and reviewed in paper by D'Souza (1979) using a bed of granular resin such as Dowex WX8 allowed partial purification which could then be completed by ion-exchange. Ion-exchange process sounds okay but regeneration using hydrochloric or sulphuric acids for the cation resins and caustic soda for the anion resin dosnt sound really feasible or realistic for a small plant. Would also not be economic I believe. Lever Bros installed a plant in L.A. designed by Illinois Water Treatment Co in 1951 but would seriously doubt this was still in operation. Dosnt sound too promising. Distillation still seems to be the preferred method. Reverse Osmosis also dosnt sound too promising although there could have been developments in the last 15 years. Refs: Sourirajan and Kimura (1967), review Sourirajan and Matsuura (1982). This is also from Mike Pelly: From: Goltz, Bob (HR) To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Base catalyzed esterification Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:28:27 -0400 Mike Pelly...Thanks for your inquiry. Since you are running this reaction as base catalyzed, I think the product you need is DOWEX 1X2 in the OH form. This product comes in several particle sizes... 50-100, 100-200 and 200-400 mesh. I suggest you try the 50-100 mesh as it will give the lowest pressure drop and still offer short diffusional paths. The resin will catalyze this reaction as long as the resin is in the OH form. If the resin picks up chloride or other anions, it will sto working as a catalyst. To restore the DOWEX 1X2 capacity, it can be washed with NaOH as directed in the literature. More
Toxic fertilizers - was Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Hi Ed Also a Mother Jones article a little while ago citing this - fertilizer being used as a carrier for cheap disposal of toxics. Spread it all over our farmlands in small concentrations instead of paying to have it properly disposed of. (Yikes!) Yep. Most of the original investigations and publication were done by the Seattle Times. I'll post some links below. I think it's time to start looking seriously at the role of seedcake pellets that emerge from cold presses as hard pellets, with probably twice the oil content of those from solvent extraction facilities, ready for use as organic fertilizer. All the organic folks that are running diesels in their operations should, as a matter of principle, be integrating these biofuels and biolubricants and organic seedcake pellets ideas into their work. Hear hear - we all like to say how nice and green biofuels are, but there's not enough thought given to maintaining the fertility of the soils that produce them. snip another. And we see the results in terms of our health. Sooner - or later. But I digress... Not a digression - everything's connected to everything else. There's not enough thought given to this either, IMO. Rising tides of asthma, bronchitis, chest complaints, allergies, etc etc etc - the issues you raise - were very much at issue in Hong Kong and its failure to deal with rising air-pollution, mainly diesel pollution; people were leaving, tourists weren't coming, businesses were relocating, thousands of people were meeting premature deaths every year, and biodiesel could have very largely fixed that. I understand nothing's changed in the last couple of years. In other words it'll have got worse. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_hk.html Toxic fertilizer refs: The Seattle Times, Local News, Friday, July 04, 1997: Throughout the country, example after example of hazardous wastes being turned into fertilizer The Seattle Times, Local News, Thursday, March 26, 1998: Toxic waste: 270 million pounds on farm fields http://www.ewg.org/pressstories/seattletimes01292001.html Take toxins out of fertilizer, 29 Jan 2001 http://www.seventhgen.com/html/recentnews.html#story01 A Fateful Harvest And A Cautionary Tale Faithful readers will remember that a few issues back we reviewed a new book called Fateful Harvest, the True Story of a Small Town, a Global Industry, and a Toxic Secret, by Duff Wilson. The book follows an investigative trail of secrets and sickness from a single small town to the headquarters of global fertilizer companies that are covertly adding toxic waste to their products. It's a stunning tale and one that's really about much more than fertilizer. http://pirg.org/toxics/reports/wastelands/index.html#exec Waste Lands: The Threat Of Toxic Fertilizer http://ens.lycos.com/ens/nov99/1999l-11-24-02.html Environmental News Service -- Smelter Toxics Served at Dinner via Crop Fertilizers http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may2001/2001L-05-07-06.html Environment News Service: Toxic Wastes Found in Fertilizers Toxic Waste in Fertilizer Main Page http://www.watoxics.org/tf.htm Duff Wilson's Fateful Harvest Book Release and Promotional Book Tour http://www.watoxics.org/tfdw.htm Background Information on Toxic Waste in Fertilizer http://www.watoxics.org/tfbk.htm Public Health and Environmental Concerns http://www.watoxics.org/tfh.htm Washington Fertilizer Politics http://www.watoxics.org/tfp.htm Farmers' Stories http://www.watoxics.org/tff.htm Media Reports and Other Resources http://www.watoxics.org/tfm.htm Toxic Waste in Fertilizer Action Alert http://www.watoxics.org/uaNatFert.htm Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:48:24 +0900 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, goat industries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Dana, there are people interested in finding greener recipes for making biodiesel. They do seem to exist but are generally highly guarded industrial secrets. I got a bit disallusioned by the polluting effect of the basic methanol/lye method as it produces a lot of mirky water in the refining process which is a problem to serious biodiesel producers as the local environment agency (UK) is highly officious and very fond of imposing large fines on businesses that cause pollution. I am currently researching other methods. Sounds like it's your highly officious local UK environment agency you should be getting a bit disillusioned with rather than the polluting effect of the method, which was discussed here a month or two ago and would seem to be more of a molehill than a mountain. Is it really worse than soapy residues etc from dishwasher, laundry detergents, bathwater? Aleks detailed the contents of the waste water (pretty innocuous) and said there's
RE: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Laboratories such as INEEL usually develop industrial processes, obtain a patent for the process, then sell it to the highest bidder for continued funding of the laboratory. In this case, I would bet that the purchaser was one of the seven sisters, who promptly buried the book as deep as they could, in order to protect their established petroleum-based business. Many such events are known to have happened in the past. Andy Stepkowski Santa Cruz, Bolivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] David said the patent's owned by Lockheed Martin Idaho Technologies Company. Not a Seven Sister (though sure, they're all in each others' pockets). Lockheed Martin has done a lot of work with hybrids. I doubt they'd wantt to bury this as a threat to their interests. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, From: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html US Department of Energy Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) scientists have developed a new method that produces a higher grade biodiesel with less waste at a lower cost and in much less time. The process, using used French fry oil, is continuous, with no wastewater, producing a cleaner, higher grade of both biodiesel and glycerine. The much higher quality glycerine produced by the new process is valuable -- close to US$10 per gallon. The researchers say sales of the glycerine could pay for the entire process, making the price of biodiesel around the same as regular petrodiesel in the US. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar99/1999L-03-11-02.html The researchers' names are Bob Fox and Dan Ginosar. The story was posted nearly three years ago. It's been discussed here several times (see archives). When last heard about they were still negotiating for commercial funding, one can't help wondering why it's taking so long if it's such a promising process. Maybe somebody nearby would like to check with them? They've been friendly and approachable in the past, just won't tell you the secret. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Re the solid catalyst that was presumedly developed at Idaho National Energy Lab about three years ago. How much info was divulged at the time and was any attempt ever made to patent the technology? Patent laws change, but the last time I looked at it, after a public disclosure, the inventor has one year to initiate a patent application. If after a year has elapsed and no attempt is made to patent it, the technology everts to the public domain. One of the issues a government contractor lab would want to avoid would be to avoid the appearance of preferential treatment. If the technology were of critical importance in an industry, such as it is alleged is the case here, one way to avoid that appearance of preferential treatment would be to let the technology revert into the public domain. Alternatively, if the technology were patented, and the technology was not of any particular value to an Agency mission program, why risk the charge of preferential treatment by, say, allowing one of the big eight to buy and bury it? Then, in addition, there are some misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. Methinks they probably know better, but this position suits their purpose, which, as indicated, is to avoid being put in a position of being accused of preferential treatment. I suggest do a search to determine whether the invention has been sufficiently disclosed, followed by an elapsed time of at least one year, to cause the invention to revert to the public domain. Since you have the name of the inventors, do a literature search to see what turns up. The procedure used to be, when I worked at a national lab as a development engineer, to submit the disclosure to the government contractor patent ofifice, to see whether the government wanted to patent the idea. If it wasn't strictly mission related, chances are the government wasn't interested. Then, if sufficiently interested, the inventor had to option of requesting that he be allowed to patent same as in individual. Given the urge to publish, the invention usually had been disclosed in the open literature early in the process. The government then had a choice: allow the individual to patent, or allow the patent to revert into the publc domain, by delaying any decision until 12 months after the disclosure. I remember one case, the Higgins Ion Exchange Column, where the government allowed Higgins to patent, which he did. Shortly thereafter he left the employ of the government contractor and developed a profitable business marketing his exchange column. If this solid catalyst item is as important as it appears to be, the contractor lab could be faced with losing a good man, as in the case of Higgins, if they allow the inventor to patent the solid catalyst invention. I suggest, get in touch with the inventor, offer him a joint venture, and support him in whatever way possible. The invention needs to be patented, because whatever belongs to everyone really belongs to noone. Unless a proprietary position can be developed, I believe there would be little possibility to develop the necessary funding to get this technology into the marketplace. But, given the state of the art that is being developed here, together, with a proprietary position with this patent -- ;who knows what could result? . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Glen, With respect to publicly financed research ending up in the pulbic sector, you expressed contempt at misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. I may have misinterpreted you position, if so correct me, but if I hadn't, please explain your position. In my world, the only place for publicly financed technologies are the public sector. Any other solution hinders futher development, stiffles market forces, and costs the public big time for what they have already in essence paid for. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst Re the solid catalyst that was presumedly developed at Idaho National Energy Lab about three years ago. How much info was divulged at the time and was any attempt ever made to patent the technology? Patent laws change, but the last time I looked at it, after a public disclosure, the inventor has one year to initiate a patent application. If after a year has elapsed and no attempt is made to patent it, the technology everts to the public domain. One of the issues a government contractor lab would want to avoid would be to avoid the appearance of preferential treatment. If the technology were of critical importance in an industry, such as it is alleged is the case here, one way to avoid that appearance of preferential treatment would be to let the technology revert into the public domain. Alternatively, if the technology were patented, and the technology was not of any particular value to an Agency mission program, why risk the charge of preferential treatment by, say, allowing one of the big eight to buy and bury it? Then, in addition, there are some misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. Methinks they probably know better, but this position suits their purpose, which, as indicated, is to avoid being put in a position of being accused of preferential treatment. I suggest do a search to determine whether the invention has been sufficiently disclosed, followed by an elapsed time of at least one year, to cause the invention to revert to the public domain. Since you have the name of the inventors, do a literature search to see what turns up. The procedure used to be, when I worked at a national lab as a development engineer, to submit the disclosure to the government contractor patent ofifice, to see whether the government wanted to patent the idea. If it wasn't strictly mission related, chances are the government wasn't interested. Then, if sufficiently interested, the inventor had to option of requesting that he be allowed to patent same as in individual. Given the urge to publish, the invention usually had been disclosed in the open literature early in the process. The government then had a choice: allow the individual to patent, or allow the patent to revert into the publc domain, by delaying any decision until 12 months after the disclosure. I remember one case, the Higgins Ion Exchange Column, where the government allowed Higgins to patent, which he did. Shortly thereafter he left the employ of the government contractor and developed a profitable business marketing his exchange column. If this solid catalyst item is as important as it appears to be, the contractor lab could be faced with losing a good man, as in the case of Higgins, if they allow the inventor to patent the solid catalyst invention. I suggest, get in touch with the inventor, offer him a joint venture, and support him in whatever way possible. The invention needs to be patented, because whatever belongs to everyone really belongs to noone. Unless a proprietary position can be developed, I believe there would be little possibility to develop the necessary funding to get this technology into the marketplace. But, given the state of the art that is being developed here, together, with a proprietary position with this patent -- ;who knows what could result? . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Please see David Cruse's message of 1/8/02, Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,, message # 10743: The famed Fox/Ginosaur process using a solid catalyst, (which to this date) hasn't been used commercially, is on Delphion.com. I was lucky enough to download a copy of the Fox/Ginosaur patent from the Delphion website before they started charging a fee to access the International Patents. It is at best vague and very careful to be as vague as possible with all the info in the Patent. The Lockheed Martin Idaho Technologies Company is the company that actually owns the Patent and they don't seem to be rushing into production of biodiesel with the process so that should tell you that the process probably isn't all that good ! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/10743 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re the solid catalyst that was presumedly developed at Idaho National Energy Lab about three years ago. How much info was divulged at the time and was any attempt ever made to patent the technology? Patent laws change, but the last time I looked at it, after a public disclosure, the inventor has one year to initiate a patent application. If after a year has elapsed and no attempt is made to patent it, the technology everts to the public domain. One of the issues a government contractor lab would want to avoid would be to avoid the appearance of preferential treatment. If the technology were of critical importance in an industry, such as it is alleged is the case here, one way to avoid that appearance of preferential treatment would be to let the technology revert into the public domain. Alternatively, if the technology were patented, and the technology was not of any particular value to an Agency mission program, why risk the charge of preferential treatment by, say, allowing one of the big eight to buy and bury it? Then, in addition, there are some misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. Methinks they probably know better, but this position suits their purpose, which, as indicated, is to avoid being put in a position of being accused of preferential treatment. I suggest do a search to determine whether the invention has been sufficiently disclosed, followed by an elapsed time of at least one year, to cause the invention to revert to the public domain. Since you have the name of the inventors, do a literature search to see what turns up. The procedure used to be, when I worked at a national lab as a development engineer, to submit the disclosure to the government contractor patent ofifice, to see whether the government wanted to patent the idea. If it wasn't strictly mission related, chances are the government wasn't interested. Then, if sufficiently interested, the inventor had to option of requesting that he be allowed to patent same as in individual. Given the urge to publish, the invention usually had been disclosed in the open literature early in the process. The government then had a choice: allow the individual to patent, or allow the patent to revert into the publc domain, by delaying any decision until 12 months after the disclosure. I remember one case, the Higgins Ion Exchange Column, where the government allowed Higgins to patent, which he did. Shortly thereafter he left the employ of the government contractor and developed a profitable business marketing his exchange column. If this solid catalyst item is as important as it appears to be, the contractor lab could be faced with losing a good man, as in the case of Higgins, if they allow the inventor to patent the solid catalyst invention. I suggest, get in touch with the inventor, offer him a joint venture, and support him in whatever way possible. The invention needs to be patented, because whatever belongs to everyone really belongs to noone. Unless a proprietary position can be developed, I believe there would be little possibility to develop the necessary funding to get this technology into the marketplace. But, given the state of the art that is being developed here, together, with a proprietary position with this patent -- ;who knows what could result? . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
In fact since there appears to be more than one way to do this they may race to get it in production before it is made obsolete by something similar hitting the market first. Dana --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Laboratories such as INEEL usually develop industrial processes, obtain a patent for the process, then sell it to the highest bidder for continued funding of the laboratory. In this case, I would bet that the purchaser was one of the seven sisters, who promptly buried the book as deep as they could, in order to protect their established petroleum-based business. Many such events are known to have happened in the past. Andy Stepkowski Santa Cruz, Bolivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] David said the patent's owned by Lockheed Martin Idaho Technologies Company. Not a Seven Sister (though sure, they're all in each others' pockets). Lockheed Martin has done a lot of work with hybrids. I doubt they'd wantt to bury this as a threat to their interests. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, From: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html US Department of Energy Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) scientists have developed a new method that produces a higher grade biodiesel with less waste at a lower cost and in much less time. The process, using used French fry oil, is continuous, with no wastewater, producing a cleaner, higher grade of both biodiesel and glycerine. The much higher quality glycerine produced by the new process is valuable -- close to US$10 per gallon. The researchers say sales of the glycerine could pay for the entire process, making the price of biodiesel around the same as regular petrodiesel in the US. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar99/1999L-03-11-02.html The researchers' names are Bob Fox and Dan Ginosar. The story was posted nearly three years ago. It's been discussed here several times (see archives). When last heard about they were still negotiating for commercial funding, one can't help wondering why it's taking so long if it's such a promising process. Maybe somebody nearby would like to check with them? They've been friendly and approachable in the past, just won't tell you the secret. __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Yes, Dana, there are people interested in finding greener recipes for making biodiesel. They do seem to exist but are generally highly guarded industrial secrets. I got a bit disallusioned by the polluting effect of the basic methanol/lye method as it produces a lot of mirky water in the refining process which is a problem to serious biodiesel producers as the local environment agency (UK) is highly officious and very fond of imposing large fines on businesses that cause pollution. I am currently researching other methods. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
In my humble opinion, the process described seems the counterpart to the alchemists recipe for turning lead into gold. A process as described would, as Dana said, revolutionize production. Count me into the subject, though I don´t know what you´re implying with this. Sure, when I find some time, I´ll try to look it up. Any hints regarding a little more detail on the process, or where it came from?... just so as to get started. I was currently trying to do some testing with hydrochloric and ethanol.. but my whole first attempt processor project (traditional NaOH Meth recipe) is currently quite delayed due to the fact that all imported goods have gone up by 40% in the past week (due to the currency problems here in Argentina). Hope to hear more on the subject Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, Arne, I have not heard any further info on the process you describe. Of course this type of continuous process biodiesel/glycerin production would REVOLUTIONIZE home production of BD if made available. It would also work well in conjunction with the inexpensive WVO/SVO processing modules I am attempting to design and integrate. As I stated before even a very expensive catalyst module would pay for itself if shared by a group of users to maximize its use either by forming a cooperative around a shared WVO/SVO/biodiesel processor or by shipping the expensive catalyst module from one (otherwise inexpensive) home processor to another. I believe that this deserves more thorough investigation. Unfortunately, as you can see from my recent posts I already have a rather full plate. If there are three or four others that are willing to join forces to dig deeper I am more than willing to contribute to the effort as best I can. alarge oart of my living hinges on gathering intelligence but I can't do it on my own right now. Anyone else interested? Ed?,Keith? Others??? Dana --- Arne P. Ryason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any known progress on the INEEL process which uses a solid catalyst to produce biodiesel and food grade glycerin? Two scientists have developed a continuous process that eliminates the alcohol, base, acid, water wash steps of making biodiesel. Also, it is a continuous process, versus the batch process that is used now. The glycerin byproduct is food grade. Selling it would offset the refining process, making biodiesel competative with petrodiesel. Anyone with more info on this? __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Hi Christian and Everyone, I'm not sure if you folks were in this group last year or not, but if you are interested in using solid catalyst or other methods to make biodiesel, might I suggest that you look in the US Patent office website www.uspto.gov . Just enter biodiesel in the search query box and you should get a wealth of information on the subject, or enter any other keyword that is associated with the subject and you will find many patents with lots of info that will help you with your questions. I mentioned last year and possibly the year before because there was a lot of discussion back then about all of these things. Search a little farther back in the archives of this group and you should find some of these subjects, a lot of research has already been done by members of this group, and it's just sitting there waiting to be accessed. The famed Fox/Ginosaur process using a solid catalyst, (which to this date) hasn't been used commercially, is on Delphion.com. I was lucky enough to download a copy of the Fox/Ginosaur patent from the Delphion website before they started charging a fee to access the International Patents. It is at best vague and very careful to be as vague as possible with all the info in the Patent. The Lockheed Martin Idaho Technologies Company is the company that actually owns the Patent and they don't seem to be rushing into production of biodiesel with the process so that should tell you that the process probably isn't all that good ! The USPTO website has a lot of other more practical info on how to make biodiesel with an alternate method, so give it a look and you may find something that will fit !! US Patent number 4,695,411 is a process to make biodiesel using hydrated ethanol, that is to say using ethanol with water in it. One problem that is always associated with using ethanol is, how obtain ethanol with no water content ! This Patent may not be practical, I don't know, but it may be of some help. You can search for millions of things that will be of help in all areas of any endeavor. Good Hunting, David Cruse - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, In my humble opinion, the process described seems the counterpart to the alchemists recipe for turning lead into gold. A process as described would, as Dana said, revolutionize production. Count me into the subject, though I don«t know what you«re implying with this. Sure, when I find some time, I«ll try to look it up. Any hints regarding a little more detail on the process, or where it came from?... just so as to get started. I was currently trying to do some testing with hydrochloric and ethanol.. but my whole first attempt processor project (traditional NaOH Meth recipe) is currently quite delayed due to the fact that all imported goods have gone up by 40% in the past week (due to the currency problems here in Argentina). Hope to hear more on the subject Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, Arne, I have not heard any further info on the process you describe. Of course this type of continuous process biodiesel/glycerin production would REVOLUTIONIZE home production of BD if made available. It would also work well in conjunction with the inexpensive WVO/SVO processing modules I am attempting to design and integrate. As I stated before even a very expensive catalyst module would pay for itself if shared by a group of users to maximize its use either by forming a cooperative around a shared WVO/SVO/biodiesel processor or by shipping the expensive catalyst module from one (otherwise inexpensive) home processor to another. I believe that this deserves more thorough investigation. Unfortunately, as you can see from my recent posts I already have a rather full plate. If there are three or four others that are willing to join forces to dig deeper I am more than willing to contribute to the effort as best I can. alarge oart of my living hinges on gathering intelligence but I can't do it on my own right now. Anyone else interested? Ed?,Keith? Others??? Dana --- Arne P. Ryason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any known progress on the INEEL process which uses a solid catalyst to produce biodiesel and food grade glycerin? Two scientists have developed a continuous process that eliminates the alcohol, base, acid, water wash steps of making biodiesel. Also, it is a continuous process, versus the batch process that is used now. The glycerin byproduct is food grade. Selling it would offset the refining process, making biodiesel competative with petrodiesel. Anyone
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
The Fox-Ginosar process (INEEL) apparently uses a polymer. I posted this to the list a long time ago, I don't know if anyone ever picked it up: A message from Mike Pelly re solid phase catalysts: I have been getting ready to pick up some of that type of catalysts but have not till now. Not sure just what worked. I understand a chemical that is called Dowex works too. (Also need to retrofit my processor to make it happen.) I'm writing to pass along to you an idea I have on using a solid phase catalyst without going through the process of gluing it in place. My plans are to contain it in a tube that has screens with mesh finer than the catalyst at either end. The grease and alcohol is pumped through this in-line (filter-type) device. In simplistic terms it would be like placing the catalysts between two sink faucet screens and plumbing it in-line on a reactor like the one Dale Scroggins built. Also the part with unions at both ends, could be easily removed for easy cleaning, back flushing and recharging of catalyst. David Reid posted this: Points to start and research: (From the Woollatt book but remember published 1985). Bleaching and the treatment of Distillates with ion-exchange resins to upgrade quality : initial bleaching with 0.2-2.0% activated carbon ion-exchange resins from Rohm and Haas instead of or after a.c. [Macrorecticular resins (which have large discrete pores capable of removing relatively large molecular mass compounds from the liquid) are normally best for this duty which demands the removal of organic, rather than ionic, impurities ]. Sound ideal in this instance to me. eg: Amberlite 200 or 200C - strong cation resin . Amberlite IRA-93 - weak base anion resin. Amberlite IRA-900 - strong base anion resin Deodorization, using heat and open steam, under vacuum, following treatment often necessary. Production of refined grades of glycerine without distillation: Ion exclusion: process developed by Dow Chemical Co and reviewed in paper by D'Souza (1979) using a bed of granular resin such as Dowex WX8 allowed partial purification which could then be completed by ion-exchange. Ion-exchange process sounds okay but regeneration using hydrochloric or sulphuric acids for the cation resins and caustic soda for the anion resin dosnt sound really feasible or realistic for a small plant. Would also not be economic I believe. Lever Bros installed a plant in L.A. designed by Illinois Water Treatment Co in 1951 but would seriously doubt this was still in operation. Dosnt sound too promising. Distillation still seems to be the preferred method. Reverse Osmosis also dosnt sound too promising although there could have been developments in the last 15 years. Refs: Sourirajan and Kimura (1967), review Sourirajan and Matsuura (1982). This is also from Mike Pelly: From: Goltz, Bob (HR) To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Base catalyzed esterification Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:28:27 -0400 Mike Pelly...Thanks for your inquiry. Since you are running this reaction as base catalyzed, I think the product you need is DOWEX 1X2 in the OH form. This product comes in several particle sizes... 50-100, 100-200 and 200-400 mesh. I suggest you try the 50-100 mesh as it will give the lowest pressure drop and still offer short diffusional paths. The resin will catalyze this reaction as long as the resin is in the OH form. If the resin picks up chloride or other anions, it will sto working as a catalyst. To restore the DOWEX 1X2 capacity, it can be washed with NaOH as directed in the literature. More information on this product can be found on our web site at http://www.dow.com/liquidseps/pc/jump/nonwater/d_1x2.htm Small samples of the resin can be purchased from Supelco by calling Barb Vogler at 800-359-3041. They can also sell you a cartridge. You will need to dry the resin before you do your testing. These resins will release low levels of amine during drying that smells bad so be sure to use a vented oven. More information on drying resins can be found at http://www.dow.com/liquidseps/pc/special/catalys.htm http://www.dow.com/liquidseps/pc/pt/orgsolv.htm Good luck with your endeavors. H. Robert Goltz, Ph.D. Dow Liquid Separations Phone 989-636-2023 Fax 989-638-9944 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] DOWEX* Resins Specialized Separations Home Page http://www.dow.com/liquidseps/pc/special/index.htm Hope this helps. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
From: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html US Department of Energy Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) scientists have developed a new method that produces a higher grade biodiesel with less waste at a lower cost and in much less time. The process, using used French fry oil, is continuous, with no wastewater, producing a cleaner, higher grade of both biodiesel and glycerine. The much higher quality glycerine produced by the new process is valuable -- close to US$10 per gallon. The researchers say sales of the glycerine could pay for the entire process, making the price of biodiesel around the same as regular petrodiesel in the US. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar99/1999L-03-11-02.html The researchers' names are Bob Fox and Dan Ginosar. The story was posted nearly three years ago. It's been discussed here several times (see archives). When last heard about they were still negotiating for commercial funding, one can't help wondering why it's taking so long if it's such a promising process. Maybe somebody nearby would like to check with them? They've been friendly and approachable in the past, just won't tell you the secret. Here's another one: A new process developed at the University of Toronto speeds the manufacturing process and reduces both the construction and capital costs of biodiesel production facilities. Production time is reduced from 2-4 hours to seven minutes in a continuous production process. (Email Prof. Dave Boocock [EMAIL PROTECTED]) See: Technology -- New Process Cuts Time, Costs: http://www.biodiesel.org/bio_reports/junbdreport.htm Process now licensed to BIOX for commercial production: http://www.bioxcorp.com/ Also discussed here several times, with some good info posted (see BIOX in archives). Meanwhile, re production revolutions, while the INEEL lead-to-gold process has languished, if indeed that's what it's doing, ENERGIES... week of December 30, 2001 (posted to the list yesterday) reports a 40-fold biodiesel production increase in the US over the last two years - from half a million gallons of B-100 shipped in 1999 to 20 million in 2001. Not bad. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ In my humble opinion, the process described seems the counterpart to the alchemists recipe for turning lead into gold. A process as described would, as Dana said, revolutionize production. Count me into the subject, though I don´t know what you´re implying with this. Sure, when I find some time, I´ll try to look it up. Any hints regarding a little more detail on the process, or where it came from?... just so as to get started. I was currently trying to do some testing with hydrochloric and ethanol.. but my whole first attempt processor project (traditional NaOH Meth recipe) is currently quite delayed due to the fact that all imported goods have gone up by 40% in the past week (due to the currency problems here in Argentina). Hope to hear more on the subject Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, Arne, I have not heard any further info on the process you describe. Of course this type of continuous process biodiesel/glycerin production would REVOLUTIONIZE home production of BD if made available. It would also work well in conjunction with the inexpensive WVO/SVO processing modules I am attempting to design and integrate. As I stated before even a very expensive catalyst module would pay for itself if shared by a group of users to maximize its use either by forming a cooperative around a shared WVO/SVO/biodiesel processor or by shipping the expensive catalyst module from one (otherwise inexpensive) home processor to another. I believe that this deserves more thorough investigation. Unfortunately, as you can see from my recent posts I already have a rather full plate. If there are three or four others that are willing to join forces to dig deeper I am more than willing to contribute to the effort as best I can. alarge oart of my living hinges on gathering intelligence but I can't do it on my own right now. Anyone else interested? Ed?,Keith? Others??? Dana --- Arne P. Ryason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any known progress on the INEEL process which uses a solid catalyst to produce biodiesel and food grade glycerin? Two scientists have developed a continuous process that eliminates the alcohol, base, acid, water wash steps of making biodiesel. Also, it is a continuous process, versus the batch process that is used now. The glycerin byproduct is food grade. Selling it would offset the refining process, making biodiesel competative with petrodiesel. Anyone with more info on this? Yahoo
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
goat industries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Dana, there are people interested in finding greener recipes for making biodiesel. They do seem to exist but are generally highly guarded industrial secrets. I got a bit disallusioned by the polluting effect of the basic methanol/lye method as it produces a lot of mirky water in the refining process which is a problem to serious biodiesel producers as the local environment agency (UK) is highly officious and very fond of imposing large fines on businesses that cause pollution. I am currently researching other methods. Sounds like it's your highly officious local UK environment agency you should be getting a bit disillusioned with rather than the polluting effect of the method, which was discussed here a month or two ago and would seem to be more of a molehill than a mountain. Is it really worse than soapy residues etc from dishwasher, laundry detergents, bathwater? Aleks detailed the contents of the waste water (pretty innocuous) and said there's no need to be saintlier than the Pope. Keep 2nd and 3rd wash water for next-batch first wash; dilute first-wash water and offer it to your lawn - try a small patch first, but prolly neither lawn nor moles will mind, might even appreciate it. Nothing you don't find in fertiliser bags. You can find a helluva lot worse in fertiliser bags: 6.2 million pounds of lead compounds, 1.3 million pounds of chromium compounds, 233,000 pounds of cadmium compounds, 212,000 pounds of nickel compounds, 16,000 pounds of mercury compounds and 223 pounds of arsenic compounds (dioxins not measured) supplied in US fertilizer bags in 2000. Plenty of real problems with water pollution in the UK to be concerned about. UK's polluted rivers named - WWF says the relevant government agencies do not have the money to monitor fresh water properly, and are often powerless to act even when they find problems. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1285000/1285883.stm Should add this: Aerosol Pollution Could Drain Earth's Water Cycle, San Diego, California, December 7, 2001 (ENS) -- Pollution may be seriously weakening the Earth's water cycle, reducing rainfall and threatening fresh water supplies. A new study by researchers at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography suggests that tiny particles of soot and other pollutants are having a far greater effect on the planet's hydrological cycle than previously realized, directly affecting fresh water availability and quality. The aerosols are a mixture of sulfates, nitrates, organic particles, fly ash, and mineral dust, formed by fossil fuel combustion and burning of forests and other biomass. http://ens-news.com/ens/dec2001/2001L-12-07-06.html Using biodiesel gives substantial reductions of unburned hydrocarbons (-93%), carbon monoxide (-50%), and particulate matter (-30%), ie soot - NBB. So is using biodiesel rather than dinodiesel helping the water situation more or less than your washwater is polluting it, d'you think? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Also a Mother Jones article a little while ago citing this - fertilizer being used as a carrier for cheap disposal of toxics. Spread it all over our farmlands in small concentrations instead of paying to have it properly disposed of. (Yikes!) I think it's time to start looking seriously at the role of seedcake pellets that emerge from cold presses as hard pellets, with probably twice the oil content of those from solvent extraction facilities, ready for use as organic fertilizer. All the organic folks that are running diesels in their operations should, as a matter of principle, be integrating these biofuels and biolubricants and organic seedcake pellets ideas into their work. As for the pellets, I tried some on my lawn in the fall, and we are having a bit of a January thaw here right now... well, today I noticed the test patch is nice and green, and starting to actually grow (January in Canada, and my lawn is greeening...gee, d'ya think there might be something to this climate change stuff?), while the rest of the lawn is still a bit brownish and mushy/matted, as it emerges from under the recently (until only a few days ago) melted snow. If I can keep the dog, the birds, and the deer from eating them all off the lawn and gardens in the early spring before they break down after a few rains/waterings, it'll be fine. (Ah, let the animals have some, who cares?). A nice slow release replacement, and a great use for the pellets, while the oil goes for fuel and lubricants and other higher value markets (depending on type pressed). It makes me smile. Especially since I can still remember the taste of nitric or phos. acid, in the air from a nearby fertilizer plant, when we went our for recess in elementary school. I grew up on a farm near a major petrochemical producing region. One of my environmental studies profs. once joked that was why my hair's almost gone on top...I didn't find it all that funny, given the cancer rates and other illnesses in the region, and the fact that my wife was hospitalized for asthma, could've died actually, and one of my kids had allergies big time...until we moved as far away from it as we could go. Just packed up and moved. I had had enough. And the doctors in the ole home area did not say to move, they said that it would probably be just a temporary improvement if anything, and put her on lots of puffers and stuff. Every year bronchitis, coughing for weeks on end. It was terrible. That was six years ago. She has zero problems now. no more puffers, pills, and side effects. My kids have no problems, very healthy. My allergies went away (after years of shots). None of us take medication for these things, and we rarely even get a cold. Meanwhile, relatives in that area, half the kids or more seem to be on puffers for asthma, and the adults always seem to have a cold or the flu. Uh huh. Right. So why am I interested in all this biofuels stuff? Now you know. There are tons of good reasons to stay on it and push for change. Literally tons. They are currently spread on our fields, dumped in our water, and spewed into the air (where they travel sometimes thousands of kilometers, polluting our so-called pristine areas), precipitating out and ending up in the water again, in the food chain, and concentrating within us...by one pathway or another. And we see the results in terms of our health. Sooner - or later. But I digress... Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:48:24 +0900 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, goat industries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Dana, there are people interested in finding greener recipes for making biodiesel. They do seem to exist but are generally highly guarded industrial secrets. I got a bit disallusioned by the polluting effect of the basic methanol/lye method as it produces a lot of mirky water in the refining process which is a problem to serious biodiesel producers as the local environment agency (UK) is highly officious and very fond of imposing large fines on businesses that cause pollution. I am currently researching other methods. Sounds like it's your highly officious local UK environment agency you should be getting a bit disillusioned with rather than the polluting effect of the method, which was discussed here a month or two ago and would seem to be more of a molehill than a mountain. Is it really worse than soapy residues etc from dishwasher, laundry detergents, bathwater? Aleks detailed the contents of the waste water (pretty innocuous) and said there's no need to be saintlier than the Pope. Keep 2nd and 3rd wash water for next-batch first wash; dilute first-wash water and offer it to your lawn - try a small patch first, but prolly neither lawn nor moles will mind, might even appreciate it. Nothing you don't find in fertiliser bags. You can find a helluva lot worse
[biofuel] Solid catalyst
Is there any known progress on the INEEL process which uses a solid catalyst to produce biodiesel and food grade glycerin? Two scientists have developed a continuous process that eliminates the alcohol, base, acid, water wash steps of making biodiesel. Also, it is a continuous process, versus the batch process that is used now. The glycerin byproduct is food grade. Selling it would offset the refining process, making biodiesel competative with petrodiesel. Anyone with more info on this? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Arne, I have not heard any further info on the process you describe. Of course this type of continuous process biodiesel/glycerin production would REVOLUTIONIZE home production of BD if made available. It would also work well in conjunction with the inexpensive WVO/SVO processing modules I am attempting to design and integrate. As I stated before even a very expensive catalyst module would pay for itself if shared by a group of users to maximize its use either by forming a cooperative around a shared WVO/SVO/biodiesel processor or by shipping the expensive catalyst module from one (otherwise inexpensive) home processor to another. I believe that this deserves more thorough investigation. Unfortunately, as you can see from my recent posts I already have a rather full plate. If there are three or four others that are willing to join forces to dig deeper I am more than willing to contribute to the effort as best I can. alarge oart of my living hinges on gathering intelligence but I can't do it on my own right now. Anyone else interested? Ed?,Keith? Others??? Dana --- Arne P. Ryason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any known progress on the INEEL process which uses a solid catalyst to produce biodiesel and food grade glycerin? Two scientists have developed a continuous process that eliminates the alcohol, base, acid, water wash steps of making biodiesel. Also, it is a continuous process, versus the batch process that is used now. The glycerin byproduct is food grade. Selling it would offset the refining process, making biodiesel competative with petrodiesel. Anyone with more info on this? __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
