Re: t-and-f: Long jump with a flip
So do you think we should add a long jump flip competition to our Greater Boston Invitational on Jan 19, 2003 at the Harvard indoor track? What would happen if we did so? Tom Derderian, GBTC - Original Message - From: P N Heidenstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:05 AM Subject: t-and-f: Long jump with a flip Some more, for those interested in a little US/NZ history. When John Delamere jumped 25' 63/4 at the 1974 Pacific Conference meet he tied with Randy Williams, the reigning Olympic champ. He did not just wow the crowd; the officials at the pit suddenly became speechless. John's best legal jump otherwise (he cleared a windy 25' 91/2 in 1973) is 7.53m, so you COULD say that the vault style improved his distance by 101/4. John likes to be known these days as Tuariki John Delamere because of his Maori ancestry. He joined the ITA circus in 1975 and was amateured in 1982 after the change in the IAAF's attitude to professionalism. Later he became a Cabinet Minister, becoming only the second NZ track and field champion to reach that rank. The first happened to be also a Maori and a LJ champion, Te Rangi Hiroa alias Sir Peter Buck. Older scholars may recall him as Professor of Anthropology at Yale. The only reason so far advanced for why the IAAF banned the Flip was its supposed danger. But they allowed the HJ Flop, which sometimes develops into a somersault, albeit a reverse one, with similar or greater dangers. Moreover the Flop had an enormous impact on HJ standards, surely far greater than the O'Brien or Oldfield SP styles had, or the Flip might have. Has anyone done a study to find more clearly what effect the Flip might indeed have had? == On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800 Garry Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen is pictured in the pages of TFN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing safety issues. I think they were premature in so doing. I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. gh Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800 From: ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:57:36 -0500 (CDT) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: long jump with a flip Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen is pictured in the pages of TFN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing safety issues. I think they were premature in so doing. I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. gh
Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip
I can tell you who. Dave Neilson,head track coach at Idaho State and Stacey Dragilla's coach, made the front cover of several track magazines with his somersault jump. I don't remember his longest jump, but I know that there could be a big difference between his longest and shortest jump of the session depending on how he came out of his tuck. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? Jim Reardon
Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:57:36 -0500 (CDT) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: long jump with a flip Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen is pictured in the pages of TFN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing safety issues. I think they were premature in so doing. I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. gh
Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip
When I was maybe 10 or 11 (which would have been about 1975 or 1976), my father took me to the Mason-Dixon games in Louisville. Someone there was doing the somersault and I thought it was absolutely the coolest thing I had ever seen. If I remember correctly, it was just an exhibition. I wish I could remember how far he jumped that day. I have never again seen anyone do the flip and until now had wondered if maybe I just dreamed it. To be honest, I didn't even realize that the method was banned. I assumed that it was more showy than effective. Someone must have been having success with the technique for it to get enough attention to get it banned. I suppose it could have also been a safety concern. Does anyone know? [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:57 pm Subject: t-and-f: long jump with a flip Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? Jim Reardon
Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip
Delamere was the one I remember getting all the headlines, the new technique vaulting him into national-level NCAA contention, and TV analysts giving a great deal more airplay to the LJ than they would ordinarily do. It was presented as 'possibly the breakthough for the LJ that Fosbury did for the HJ'. Still, there were a considerable number of coaches around the country who told their LJ'ers if they even saw one attempt at a somersault LJ in practice, they were off the team. There were many opponents, not just on safety issues, but because 'it had never been done that way before', 'just didn't seem the right way to do it', 'this isn't a damn circus!', etc. Many coaches were downright angry about something which in there view violated the sanctity of their sport. And what went unsaid was that if allowed it could suddenly 'invalidate' the credentials of a great number of LJ coaches in the country, when kids getting recruited would theoretically all want to go with one of those 'new technique coaches'. Innovation is a very uphill climb. RT On Fri, 08 Nov 2002 06:16:05 -0800, you wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 19:57:36 -0500 (CDT) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: long jump with a flip Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen is pictured in the pages of TFN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing safety issues. I think they were premature in so doing. I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. gh
Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip
I recall going to one of the old ITA Pro Indoor track meets. I recall a picture, possibly on the cover, of Delamere in his WSU jersey. My older brother and I started doing it too. He ended up a whacked out skier doing all kinds of flips and me, well, though never injured doing a flip, chose an event, shall we say, much closer to the ground, at least according to the human eye. I say bring it back, maybe we can win some X-Gamers over. Allen James Subject: t-and-f: long jump with a flip Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? A quick history, just off the top of my head: Idaho State coach Dave Nielsen is pictured in the pages of TFN around '73 using the technique. At the '74 Pac-8 meet in the LA Coliseum, John Delamere of Washington State absolutely blew the crowd away by using the style. As I recall, jumped somehting like 25-4 3/4 wind-aided. In '75 Bruce Jenner used it and added about a foot to his best, but the IAAF shortly thereafter banned the technique, citing safety issues. I think they were premature in so doing. I think Delamere went on to become a member of the New Zealand parliament. gh
Re: t-and-f: long jump with a flip
My recollection of it was extremely vague, but I was able to find an interesting article on line that gives the credit to Dave Nielsen, head coach at Idaho State, and a former pole vaulter and decathlete. Says he improved his PR by 2 ft before the technique was banned. http://www.ustrackcoaches.org/Mainwebsite/Coaches%20Review/Dave%20Nielsen%20full.pdf I also found Oakland CYO website where the high jump rules specifically prohibits the flip. http://members.aol.com/oakdiocyo/page4.htm Bill Bahnfleth At 07:57 PM 11/7/2002 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone who knows far more about track than I do wrote: I seem to recall that long jump with a flip looked like a mechanical improvement before it was banned. That must have been a truly revolutionary technique. Who was doing it, and when, and how far? Jim Reardon
