Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 01:35:26PM +0300, SteveC wrote: http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html?mt0=googlemapmt1=mapniklon=-0.343705lat=39.48158z=17 Is it just me or does this link not work in ie7? cu bart ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
Cartinus schrieb: But when routing for pedestrians, you will want to be able to reach the bus stops. This and the rest is very valid reasoning. Therefore I also convinced that bus_stops deserve a node besides the road. -- Karl Eichwalder ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
graham wrote: Steve Hill wrote: How are people tagging bus stops? I have been setting tagging nodes that are members of the way, which means they are part of the road they are on. Is this the right way to do it? It seems right since it unambiguously shows which road the stop is on, but it doesn't allow any indication as to which side of the road the stop is on. I've been doing the opposite, and have only recently realised that your way is the way I was supposed to do it.. I have mapped quite a few bus stops where the bus stop is on a pedestrian island and I want to show not only 'side of road' but also a fairly exact physical position. I'd be reluctant to give that up to plonk all my bus stops in the middle of the road... I wonder if anyone has done any counts of how many stops in the db are points in ways, and how many are points beside ways? I did think that was the counts Jon included in his earlier post? The 'highway' counts show 13532 bus stops, but yours must be in the 216 independent objects? The 'side' information has a number of areas that need covering other than just bus stop or halt location. No right/left turn from other side of road for example. And the problem of pedestrian routing showing things like safe crossing points adds another level of complexity. p.s. adding all the pedestrian crossings and bus stops on the South Circular in London along with all the no right turn alternate routes and information on which lane you should be in would probably cover EVERY possible option. How do people cope around there? Took me 2 hours to get from Croydon around to the M4 yesterday :( I'll use the M25 next time ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
Lester Caine schreef: graham wrote: Steve Hill wrote: How are people tagging bus stops? I have been setting tagging nodes that are members of the way, which means they are part of the road they are on. Is this the right way to do it? It seems right since it unambiguously shows which road the stop is on, but it doesn't allow any indication as to which side of the road the stop is on. I've been doing the opposite, and have only recently realised that your way is the way I was supposed to do it.. I have mapped quite a few bus stops where the bus stop is on a pedestrian island and I want to show not only 'side of road' but also a fairly exact physical position. I'd be reluctant to give that up to plonk all my bus stops in the middle of the road... I wonder if anyone has done any counts of how many stops in the db are points in ways, and how many are points beside ways? I did think that was the counts Jon included in his earlier post? The 'highway' counts show 13532 bus stops, but yours must be in the 216 independent objects? The 'side' information has a number of areas that need covering other than just bus stop or halt location. No right/left turn from other side of road for example. And the problem of pedestrian routing showing things like safe crossing points adds another level of complexity. p.s. adding all the pedestrian crossings and bus stops on the South Circular in London along with all the no right turn alternate routes and information on which lane you should be in would probably cover EVERY possible option. How do people cope around there? Took me 2 hours to get from Croydon around to the M4 yesterday :( I'll use the M25 next time ;) When I tag a bus stop, I always use highway=bus_stop. I didn't know about the amenity=bus_stop. I put them next to the road though. So the count we would like to see is independent/loose highway=bus_stop and highway=bus_stop that are actually part of a highway. Polyglot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent (last few weeks) [EMAIL PROTECTED] render changes
80n wrote: I've made the following changes: 1) State borders are thicker 2) Secondary roads are narrower and the colour saturation has been reduced 3) Railway lines are a little blacker. What do you think? It looks much better. Have you done the changes only for the test or are they going out to the wild? Norbert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Niclas Andersson wrote: I've always used a node in the way to represent a bus stop. This works fine when there's a stop on each side of the road. Otherwise I've made use of the bus_direction=(N|S|E|W) tag (from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Buses ) on the node to indicate in which direction the stop is for, which I believe should work fairly well. Ah, I hadn't come across the bus_direction tag - that looks like a good solution. Thanks. - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Cartinus wrote: Up till now I used the node in the road method. But lately I have been thinking about how routing applications would use osm data. I doubt bus companies will be using osm to route their busses. But when routing for pedestrians, you will want to be able to reach the bus stops. Bus companies may not want to to use it for routing, but someone else might want to run a route planner for getting from A to B by public transport and on foot (there is one run by the UK government already I think?). This would need to take account of bus stop location, direction as well as data from other sources such as bus timetables. I think this is the one I was thinking of: http://www.transportdirect.info - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Bruce Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 14:57 +0300, SteveC wrote: Like, er, electing President Bush, or Prime Minister Gordon Brown (no election) ? I'm a pedant, but you never vote for a Prime Minister. You vote for your local MP and the leader of the party with the most MPs gets to be Prime Minister. Well, if we're being pedantic then the Queen appoints the PM, and by convention she chooses the person most likely to have the confidence of parliament. There's nothing other than constitutional convention to stop her picking anyone she likes, whether they're an MP or not, and whether parliament likes it or not -- luckily the convention seems quite strong. So all in all, there's not much voting going on, or where there is it isn't necessarily treated in the way you'd expect, which was kind of Steve's point. But anyway. Both e-mails are evidence of why charging people for completely pointless posts that don't actually do anything for the point under discussion is probably a good idea :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent (last few weeks) [EMAIL PROTECTED] render changes
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Norbert Hoffmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 80n wrote: I've made the following changes: 1) State borders are thicker 2) Secondary roads are narrower and the colour saturation has been reduced 3) Railway lines are a little blacker. What do you think? It looks much better. Have you done the changes only for the test or are they going out to the wild? These changes have not yet been released into the wild. If anyone wants to comment on them, its the area around and to the east of Lexington-Fayette at this link: http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=38.3850726403848lon=-83.15446545365462user=80nzoom=8layers=B000F000F 80n Norbert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
On Wed, 9 Apr 2008, Steve Hill wrote: I think this is the one I was thinking of: http://www.transportdirect.info No, sorry, it was probably http://www.traveline.org.uk/ - Steve xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
Beautiful! http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=13.62397052773088lon=123.18169016162223zoom=17layers=B000F000F http://gis.naga.gov.ph/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Data Thanks to IvanSanchez and the NAGA City GIS team! More work cleaning up some missing ways due to GML linestring errors. Still, BEAUTIFUL! maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
Nice detail. Already rendering in mapnik, due to super-fast turnaround of planet dump this week. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=13.62464lon=123.18707zoom=16layers=B0FT Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of maning sambale Sent: 09 April 2008 11:53 To: Iván Sánchez Ortega; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM Beautiful! http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=13.62397052773088lon=123.18169016162223zoom=17layers=B000F000F http://gis.naga.gov.ph/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Data Thanks to IvanSanchez and the NAGA City GIS team! More work cleaning up some missing ways due to GML linestring errors. Still, BEAUTIFUL! maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a difficult problem - I can't think of any way to tell (from existing data) whether a road is safe to cross without an explicit pedestrian crossing. You can't just go on whether it is primary, secondary, etc - there are quite a few secondary roads which can be crossed without any trouble but there are also a lot where you wouldn't dream of crossing them (or indeed, can't cross them because there is a fence on the central reservation). Perhaps the speed limit tagging could help? I guess it is normally fine to cross in a 30mph limit, but not in a 60mph limit without a dedicated crossing. There are proposals for tagging the crossings. It is interesting that the lane proposal here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Lane doesn't have anything about whether the road is safe to cross or barriers in the middle... Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
I was expecting it to first appear in osmarender but this the first time saw it first in Mapnik. Did I just said first 3 times? maning On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Steve Chilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice detail. Already rendering in mapnik, due to super-fast turnaround of planet dump this week. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=13.62464lon=123.18707zoom=16layers=B0FT Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of maning sambale Sent: 09 April 2008 11:53 To: Iván Sánchez Ortega; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM Beautiful! http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=13.62397052773088lon=123.18169016162223zoom=17layers=B000F000F http://gis.naga.gov.ph/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Data Thanks to IvanSanchez and the NAGA City GIS team! More work cleaning up some missing ways due to GML linestring errors. Still, BEAUTIFUL! maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
Frederik Ramm wrote: Sent: 08 April 2008 2:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: OSM-Talk Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Voting Sven, I can't remember that ULFL ever claimed that. Ok. There we go again. Nobody has claimed anything, but the fact of the matter is that a number of people seem to think that those who vote make a decision that is a decision of the project rather than a decision of those five people who voted. I've been critcised for not suggesting an alternative. So here's my suggestion: * Continue your discussion and voting as before * Give yourselves a name (OSM Tagging Task Force or whatever) and create a mailing list. * Do not talk about approved, rejected, or deprecated features; instead, if something is voted in favour, it becomes a recommended by OSMTTF feature. * Be very clear that any feature *not* voted upon, or any feature which got less votes than something else, or any feature that a majority of voters didn't like, is still perfectly valid to use - you just don't actively recommend it. * Never try to keep people from using tags you didn't recommend (i.e. do not add a big message to the Wiki saying THIS FEATURE IS NOT RECOMMENDED!). * Be very clear that the group you form is a small subset of the project; you create recommendations based on today's knowledge and on what you like and dislike. There may be any number of *other* groups in the project who also create recommendations and who have the same right to exist that you have. You are not special, the project has not asked you to please give recommendations, and has not given you any special powers that others don't have. (Much as the project never asks anyone to please write software and be the project's premier software contributor - anyone can do it and if it proves to be good, it is used.) * Be very clear that your recommendations create no obligations whatsoever on the part of renderers and editors; your tags are not better or more important than anyone else's. Do all this and I will stop complaining. I might even actively refer people to you (better talk this over with the guys on the tagging task force list, they usually have good ideas or so). Will this discussion only end when Ulf, Robin, me and several others set up a separate wiki for those who want to agree on and use a consistent tagging sheme because they believe it's a good thing? When this project is so open, why are we always blamed for what we do? I'll draw a parallel to the licensing debate here. Over on legal-talk, I constantly advocate PD, saying that nothing can ever be more free than PD because it has no restrictions. I am then routinely criticised by share-alike advocates who say that the freedom of PD might be abused by people further down the line to actually *reduce* freedom. In this discussion, I find myself on their side: Our project is so open, and I have the impression that you are trying to *reduce* that openness by setting up a voting process. I have the suspicion that in the end you want a project where new tags aren't even allowed unless they underwent discussion and voting. And that's where my fierce opposition comes from. Bye Frederik I haven't expressed my view too much on this aspect of late. I think most know that I'm an advocate of the let it evolve approach. SteveC pointed me last night to this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=WMSinyx_Ab0 If you haven't seen it already its principally discussing the arguments and issues surrounding wikipedia and whether it can stand for truth or not. OSM basically has the same dilemma. There will always be those that think the prescribed approach, and this applies beyond tags too, is the only way the project will be considered authoritative and therefore in the longer term useful/successful. I don't hold this view, and this is why. Like another poster I too use international standards in my life as an engineer. But daily I come across poorly conceived standards and differences in interpretation, usage and supposedly equivalent standards in different jurisdictions. I also see standards having to change with time and that these changes don't usually keep pace with technological developments or new research and best practice. The final minute of the above video for me is the important point. An expert, whether it is on tags or anything else, has a high degree of knowledge about the subject, but that is not the only knowledge. Any knowledge, whether from an expert of not is knowledge gained about the subject and has relevance. This is why I think the original wikipedia approach was fine, provided that it would never be considered authoritative. If you want an authoritative version, in the same way that the Encyclopaedia Britannica or OED might be considered authoritative, then fine, make your rules and produce your work to standards, each individual then has the option to consider these alongside any other sources of information when making a decision or taking a view about something. If we turn
[OSM-talk] A List Apart does Why Mashups Suck
A List Apart does Why Mashups Suck and briefly mentions OSM: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/takecontrolofyourmaps s ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik: amenity=bus_station
Nick wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a difficult problem - I can't think of any way to tell (from existing data) whether a road is safe to cross without an explicit pedestrian crossing. You can't just go on whether it is primary, secondary, etc - there are quite a few secondary roads which can be crossed without any trouble but there are also a lot where you wouldn't dream of crossing them (or indeed, can't cross them because there is a fence on the central reservation). Perhaps the speed limit tagging could help? I guess it is normally fine to cross in a 30mph limit, but not in a 60mph limit without a dedicated crossing. There are proposals for tagging the crossings. It is interesting that the lane proposal here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Lane doesn't have anything about whether the road is safe to cross or barriers in the middle... I was thinking more about actual crossing points, such as zebra crossings, pedestrian ways at traffic lights, central safety islands, pavement crossing indicators for the visually impaired, and so on perhaps I should have listed them :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
Just listened, great interview (apart from the strange tunnel discussion at the beginning ;-) Does make me think I should get another Liverpool party arranged and perhaps get on the radio to publicise it. Thanks for the multimap mention too :-) On 9 Apr 2008, at 06:25, Nick Black wrote: Great interview! On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Chilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 08 April 2008 2:38 PM To: Steve Chilton; Andy Robinson (blackadder); talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local takeup for the weekend mapping party. After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help think of the QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK would cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded something on lines of Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK, which would co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds. Cheers Steve, It was fun. Matthew Gates kindly did a recording, available here for those that missed the live feed. http://porpoisehead.net/hi/?q=node/35 Cheers Andy Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
maning sambale wrote: More work cleaning up some missing ways due to GML linestring errors. Still, BEAUTIFUL! Looks really nice. But there seems to be something in the data, that prevents rendering since the 4th. There must have been hundreds of tries until now. From http://tah.openstreetmap.org/Tiles/info.php?x=3449y=1891z=12 Requested at 2008-04-05 04:00:18, by koelly:tahCltReReq:NoData, with priority 1. Current state is Active (out to client). Taken by client at 2008-04-09 00:41:39. Norbert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today
On 9 Apr 2008, at 13:23, John McKerrell wrote: Just listened, great interview (apart from the strange tunnel discussion at the beginning ;-) Does make me think I should get another Liverpool party arranged and perhaps get on the radio to publicise it. yes! Thanks for the multimap mention too :-) On 9 Apr 2008, at 06:25, Nick Black wrote: Great interview! On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Chilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sent: 08 April 2008 2:38 PM To: Steve Chilton; Andy Robinson (blackadder); talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Nice one Andy! Came across really well. Hope we get some local takeup for the weekend mapping party. After his reference to the QI item in lead-up I couldn't help think of the QI moment when Stephen Fry asked panel to say what map of the UK would cost. Alan Davies answered £4-99, to which Fry responded something on lines of Close. Well, I meant the whole OS Mastermap database of UK, which would co(a)st you something like 4.99 million pounds. Cheers Steve, It was fun. Matthew Gates kindly did a recording, available here for those that missed the live feed. http://porpoisehead.net/hi/?q=node/35 Cheers Andy Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton Sent: 08 April 2008 13:54 To: Andy Robinson (blackadder); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today Definitely happening - being trailered right now, by a guy who sounds as though he knows nothing! Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Learning and Technical Support Unit Manager School of Health and Social Sciences Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/ chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Robinson (blackadder) Sent: 08 April 2008 10:29 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Birmingham mapping party - Radio Interview today For those interested I'm expecting to go into BBC WM local radio to do a live interview at 14:10ish BST today. Part of the Les Ross show. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/wm.shtml to listen live Cheers Andy ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-GB mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-dev] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
On 8 Apr 2008, at 17:23, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, What? Geonames allows you to move and edit data which is overlaid onto a Google Map. Go to http://www.geonames.org/maps/cities.html and click on a city. You're right, there's a move link there which I had overlooked. Nonetheless, apart from the geo location of the city I get tons of other info that could not possibly come from Google... I understand a certain desire to say we are cooler than other mapping project but we should make an attempt to do so without slander. As you know there are ways and tools to create OSM data that is derived from Google Earth or Google Maps, Like what? No-one should be entering data into OSM that is derived from a proprietary source. I know that nobody should, and I won't give you a run-down of ways for people to do it nonetheless. I'm just saying that if someone was bent on demonstrating how easy Google data could find its way into OSM, then he wouldn't have to work very hard. *cough* http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html?mt0=googlemapmt1=mapniklon=-0.343705lat=39.48158z=17 *cough* Best Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 12:31:02AM +0100, Bruce Cowan wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 14:57 +0300, SteveC wrote: Like, er, electing President Bush, or Prime Minister Gordon Brown (no election) ? I'm a pedant [...] Oh, if we're being pedantic, I'd like to point out that the British convention is that he's The Prime Minister, Gordon Brown or Mr Brown or Prime Minister (as in, Yes, Prime Minister), but not any variation on the American Prime Minister Brown or Mr Prime Minister formats. Sorry, off topic and I managed to resist for a couple of days, but it's just one of those niggly things. And as for Chef Ramsey, he can f*** right off. s ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/4/9 Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED]: maybe someone should tell the government? apparently we're all wasting our time voting for them, and 'rough consensus' should be used to decide who's in power. On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Bruce Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 14:57 +0300, SteveC wrote: Like, er, electing President Bush, or Prime Minister Gordon Brown (no election) ? I'm a pedant, but you never vote for a Prime Minister. You vote for your local MP and the leader of the party with the most MPs gets to be Prime Minister. Well, if we're being pedantic then the Queen appoints the PM, and by convention she chooses the person most likely to have the confidence of parliament. There's nothing other than constitutional convention to stop her picking anyone she likes, whether they're an MP or not, and whether parliament likes it or not -- luckily the convention seems quite strong. So all in all, there's not much voting going on, or where there is it isn't necessarily treated in the way you'd expect, which was kind of Steve's point. well, if we're being really, really pedantic, then i wasn't talking about that government, but the one here (nz), where there are no damn monarchs choosing leaders, [...] really? wikipedia isn't so convinced: 'The post of Prime Minister is, like other ministerial positions, an appointment by the Governor-General during the Queen's pleasure' [1] Convention means this isn't really true, as it does in the UK. Quite what happens if you break convention I don't know. Probably a Constitutional Crisis. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_New_Zealand ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
Also, this is quite a powerful comparison: http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html?mt0=googlemapmt1=mapniklon=123.1866717lat=13.6237576z=15 way to go Google ! maning sambale wrote: Beautiful! http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=13.62397052773088lon=123.18169016162223zoom=17layers=B000F000F http://gis.naga.gov.ph/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Data Thanks to IvanSanchez and the NAGA City GIS team! More work cleaning up some missing ways due to GML linestring errors. Still, BEAUTIFUL! maning begin:vcard fn:Patrick Weber n:Weber;Patrick org:University College London adr:;;Gower Street;London;;WC1E 6BT;United Kingdom email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Engineering Doctorate Student tel;work:02077185430 url:http://www.ucl.ac.uk/cemi version:2.1 end:vcard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
quote who=Lester Caine The map looks nice. But once again it took some detective work to establish WHERE in the world we were looking :( By detective work you mean, like, zooming out? :-P -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Can't find what you're looking for?
Maybe I am being slow but I just spotted this on Google maps: * Add a place to the map (new) You can see it at the bottom of the links on the left hand side. then: * Provide location and details using the info window on the map. * Once you save your place, the whole world can find your addition by searching for it within a few minutes. Looks like it only works for the USA at the moment: http://tinyurl.com/6zhh5y Only a few years behind OSM ;-) Paul Y -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
Chris Hill wrote: Lester Caine wrote: Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: quote who=Lester Caine The map looks nice. But once again it took some detective work to establish WHERE in the world we were looking :( By detective work you mean, like, zooming out? :-P No - where do you get the information on which Naga city we are looking at by zooming out? By zooming out far enough to get the information you need. Oh, but is that the Philippines on Earth or on Mars, but wait is that Mars in the Sol system, or Betalguese - but which multiverse are we in? Now I'm strting to panic! I repeat - WHERE are you getting that information by zooming out. Nothing says that this group of islands is the Philippines and nothing says which Island THIS Naga City is on. I'll be perfectly honest - I did not know the Philippines actually covered ALL of those islands, I though they were several countries, but NOTHING tells me that this group of islands IS the Philippines! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
Lester Caine wrote: I repeat - WHERE are you getting that information by zooming out. Nothing says that this group of islands is the Philippines They're just right and down a bit from Hong Kong, which is where the Philippines are generally to be found. The easy way to distinguish them from, say, Anglesey is that Anglesey is just off the coast of Wales and its capital is Llangefni, not Manila. HTH. On a more serious note, I agree that it would be quite cool to have country names displayed on the smallest scale maps, but the best way to achieve this is by actually suggesting it rather than complaining that the world has let you down once again, replete with capital letters and an unhappy smiley. (Actually, that's the third best way. The second best way is to log a trac ticket. The best way of all is to post a patch. ;) ) cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: snip I've been critcised for not suggesting an alternative. So here's my suggestion: * Continue your discussion and voting as before * Give yourselves a name (OSM Tagging Task Force or whatever) and create a mailing list. * Do not talk about approved, rejected, or deprecated features; instead, if something is voted in favour, it becomes a recommended by OSMTTF feature. snip I haven't expressed my view too much on this aspect of late. I think most know that I'm an advocate of the let it evolve approach. more snipping... As a OSM Newbie, this seems like one of those old timer arguments you see in the back of the pub, where everyone involved knows their point of view, and everyone elese point of view, and knows no-one will change, but discusses anyway for old time sake. Normally I stay away from those discussions, but this time I'll wade in (to knowing glances between the old timers, I'm sure...) I like the way that new tags can be written up on the wiki, and then any users can show their feelings on them. I think it's quite clear from the wiki that you don't have to use 'approved' tags, or that the approval is set in stone (it's a wiki after all), but I think it helps new user to see how new tags are being thought of by everyone, and for people with an idea to document their idea and show it to the world. Without something like this you will get fifty different types of subtly different tags. I see the proposal / voting / approval process as something to do with the documentation on the wiki, and not nessarily to do with the map. Maybe what's required is getting more users to look at the proposals and give their opinion (maybe putting the latest proposal thats being voted on on the front page ?) Just my two penneth, Paul. -- Paul Hurley http://www.paulhurley.co.uk/ The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting
On 09/04/2008, Andy Robinson (blackadder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't expressed my view too much on this aspect of late. I think most know that I'm an advocate of the let it evolve approach. me too. it should evolve - but settling on agreed ways of doing things does not prevent evolution SteveC pointed me last night to this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=WMSinyx_Ab0 If you haven't seen it already its principally discussing the arguments and issues surrounding wikipedia and whether it can stand for truth or not. there is no truth. only commonly agreed upon values. this can be applied to society, wikipedia or osm, any group of individuals with a common aim OSM basically has the same dilemma. There will always be those that think the prescribed approach, and this applies beyond tags too, is the only way the project will be considered authoritative and therefore in the longer term useful/successful. I don't hold this view, and this is why. prescribed != non-evolving Like another poster I too use international standards in my life as an engineer. But daily I come across poorly conceived standards and differences in interpretation, usage and supposedly equivalent standards in different jurisdictions. I also see standards having to change with time and that these changes don't usually keep pace with technological developments or new research and best practice. that isn't a failing of standards per se, though, only with their implementation. some engineers are lazy and can't be bothered reading how the standard should work (by the way, another engineer here), but that doesn't mean the standard has no value i use standards every day too, and plenty of them change every few years. why don't they change more? well, the standards committees have to meet, which costs money (which isn't available), work has to be done researching methods (which is expensive and time-consuming). as a result, standards committees appear slow to move and out of touch we have a wiki, and everyone can cheaply get together and investigate/discuss if a new process is useful or not, so we can update the 'standard' every day if need be. and we do. every day there is an active discussion/vote to add, change and remove tags. how is this non-evolving? The final minute of the above video for me is the important point. An expert, whether it is on tags or anything else, has a high degree of knowledge about the subject, but that is not the only knowledge. Any knowledge, whether from an expert of not is knowledge gained about the subject and has relevance. This is why I think the original wikipedia absolutely. there is no barrier to joining a discussion. no-one looking at a tag discussion with a good idea would think ulf, alex, me or anyone had some higher power. we're very careful on this, and are aware and promote that every opinion is as valued as another. has anyone ever said i've been doing this for x months, i know more than you, your opinion is worhtless? not that i can see approach was fine, provided that it would never be considered authoritative. If you want an authoritative version, in the same way that the Encyclopaedia Britannica or OED might be considered authoritative, then fine, make your rules and produce your work to standards, each individual then has the option to consider these alongside any other sources of information when making a decision or taking a view about something. If we turn this point to OSM we can see that if the community pools its ideas on a point, tags in this instance, then we reach through discussion on the lists/IRC wiki etc a level of general consensus about a tag, it is immaterial whether the consensus reached is right or wrong in the wider context. It's what the community feels is appropriate at the time. The problem comes along only if a subset of the community decide to approve the consensus and cast it in stone as an immovable statement. Doing so stops further revision of the community consensus, and thus in my view makes it less authoritative with time. no it doesn't - anyone can propose changing a tag at a later date. e.g. i put forward a proposal to merge cemeteries and graveyards, someone explained why they were different (showing good sources to back up their argument), and i retracted it. there is also a proposal in place to delete sport=football which will probably go through. when it was created it made sense, now it doesn't - a prime example of evolution voting by itself does not give me any confidence that the tags are 'approved' or useful or whatever. but people use them, a lot, which gives me confidence that they see value in the tags, and thus how they are created i don't know the exact numbers, but having looked through tagwatch, most items are tagged with things in map_features. why would people use them if they had no value? this tells me we're doing something right. maybe the people who use them
Re: [OSM-talk] Application for GSoC
Hi, As discussed in [http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:GSoC_Applications_2008]: I18n of OSM pages and map tiles * How many times should a tile be rendered: one per language defined in the system, or one per language defined in the zone? How to define zones (countries): polygons, or tile sets (like osmarender's z12 land/sea)? Ivansanchez 11:47, 8 April 2008 (BST) * Let me put it in this way that, a tile/zone will be rendered separately for a particular language defined in the system, only if its' tranlations are available for that language at that point of time. Otherwise the default renders could be used in areas where localization is still not done. And zones can be defined as tile sets, typically at different zoom levels of osmarender. It would be great to have suggestions about more optimized approach. ArindamGhosh 02:38, 10 April 2008 (IST) Do you think the zones can be defined in a better way so that it is more effective from implementation point of view? Please put up your thoughts... cheers Arindam ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naga City in OSM Re: GML to OSM
At zoom level 4, placenames for major cities appear, but no country names at any level. Perhaps, there should be one for levels 4-6. I do remember that we added a node tagged as country and name Philippines. Do I need to add an is_in tag for every island (7100 + high tide or low tide)? maning On 4/9/08, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lester Caine wrote: I repeat - WHERE are you getting that information by zooming out. Nothing says that this group of islands is the Philippines They're just right and down a bit from Hong Kong, which is where the Philippines are generally to be found. The easy way to distinguish them from, say, Anglesey is that Anglesey is just off the coast of Wales and its capital is Llangefni, not Manila. HTH. On a more serious note, I agree that it would be quite cool to have country names displayed on the smallest scale maps, but the best way to achieve this is by actually suggesting it rather than complaining that the world has let you down once again, replete with capital letters and an unhappy smiley. (Actually, that's the third best way. The second best way is to log a trac ticket. The best way of all is to post a patch. ;) ) cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-de] Treppen
Moin highway=steps Christian Hartnick schrieb: Hallo, da das Wiki gerade nicht funktioniert: Weiß jemand auswendig wie Treppen zu mappen sind? Gruß Christian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de -- Viele Gruesse Computerteddy ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] De:Map_Features = Fatal error
On Wed April 9 2008, Raimond Spekking wrote: Reinhard Reddig schrieb: Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 12582912 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 5402.. bytes) in /var/www/wiki.openstreetmap.org/includes/Parser.php on line 312 Ich vermute, der Fehler tritt nicht nur bei mir auf. Der Systemadministrator des Wikis muss in der localSettings.php der MediaWiki-Installation den Wert 'xxM' erhöhen. 'xx', da ich nicht weiß, wie niedrig er aktuell ist. 12582912 / (2^20) = 12 Das scheint ja wirklich recht wenig zu sein. Grüße, Till ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] JOSM - Richtungspfeile
Raphael Mack schrieb: Am Dienstag, 8. April 2008 schrieb BroadwayLamb: ich bin etwas irritiert. Was wurde denn da jetzt gefixt. Egal welche Einstellung ich nehme, ich sehe im Mappaint-Modus keine Richtungspfeile mehr. Es ändert sich zwar die Farbe, wenn ein Element angeklickt wird, aber der aktive Way wird nicht mehr als Wireframe angezeigt. Damit ist es praktisch unmöglich, die Richtung von Einbahnstraßen zu erkennen bzw. zu ändern. Habe ich etwas übersehen? Mh. Du hast mappaint.use_real_width=true, nicht wahr? Der Punkt ist, dass hier keine Richtungspfeile angezeigt werden. - abgesehen zumindest von dem Ausgewählten Weg, der wird aber auch nicht mit real_width angezeigt. Und das habe ich aus versehen vernachlässigt. Als Quickfix kannst du also z. B. mappaint.use_real_width auf false setzen. Ab [599] - also auch im morgigen build sollten dann auf jeden Fall Richtungspfeile für den selektierten Weg angezeigt werden. Stimmt, diese Option habe ich gewählt - wobei mir gar nicht mehr bewusst war, dass das nicht die Standardeinstellung ist. Jetzt verstehe ich auch erst den Sinn der Unterscheidung zwischen wichtigem und unwichtigem Richtungspfeil... Mit dem aktuellen build funktioniert es jedenfalls wieder einwandfrei. Danke für die schnelle Änderung. Gruß BL ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] informationsfreiheitsgesetz
hallo zusammen, nachdem gestern - das seit gut zwei jahren geltende - informationsfreiheitsgesetz durch die medien geisterte, habe ich mir überlegt, ob wir das nicht auch für unsere zwecke nutzen können. interessant wären da sicherlich anfragen bei den landesvermessungsämtern, den katasterämtern oder den städten und gemeinden. in wikipedia heißt es: Amtliche Information ist jede amtlichen Zwecken dienende Aufzeichnung, unabhängig von der Art ihrer Speicherung, also beispielsweise Schriftstücke in herkömmlichen Akten, elektronisch gespeicherte Informationen, Zeichnungen, Grafiken, Pläne, Ton- und Videoaufzeichnungen. die elektronisch gespeicherten informationen (luftbilder) und die pläne (karten) wären für uns natürlich besonders interessant. damit bekommt man höchstwahrscheinlich die gewünschten informationen, allerdings wäre dann noch zu klären, wie die gewonnenen informationen urheberrechtlich zu behandeln sind und ob wir daraus überhaupt einen nutzen ziehen können. aber vielleicht ist unter uns mappern ja ein jurist, der sich berufen fühlt, hier mal eine rechtliche bewertung des ganzen zu machen. grüße frank ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Ways stapeln
CE schrieb: für angrenzende Flächen die selben Nodes verwendet (das ist noch halbwegs handhabbar) und dann (oh Graus :) über die selben Nodes einen Weg gepackt (weil der Weg beispielsweise eine Grünfläche von einem Gewerbegebiet trennt). Find ich nicht gut weil das keine allgemeingültige Lösung ist. Bei einer Autobahn als trennender Weg funktioniert das z.B. nicht. Ich hab' früher auch immer Flächen leicht daneben getaggt; bin aber vor kurzem dazu übergegangen Ways zu stapeln, zum einen weil ich begriffen habe, wie das in JOSM funktioniert und zum anderen weil das Ergebnis einfach besser ausschaut. Was die Autobahnen anbelagt: Da sehe ich kein Problem: Wenn die Fläche rechts der Autobahn ist, rechts stapeln, ansonsten links... Grüßle, Berni -- -- Schau doch mal wieder bei CrocoPuzzle rein. (www.croco-puzzle.com) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Teilweise gesperrte Straßen
Hallo, ich bin noch relativ neu zu Open Street Map und hab jetzt begonnen mein Dorf zu erfassen. Ich hab ein Problem mit einer Straße die bei uns vor der Schule vorbeiführt. Die Straße in auf den Stück vor der Schule Einbahnstraße und zeitweise komplett gesperrt. Wie tagged man so was. Durch diese Dreiteilung wir der Straßenname 3 mal gerendert obwohl die Straße nicht wirklich lang ist. Gibt es da eine Möglichkeit das zu unterdrücken. Zu sehen unter http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.16128lon=10.7166zoom=17layers=B0FT Gruß Gerhard -- - Gerhard Schmidt | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TU-München| WWW Online Services | Tel: 089/289-25270| Fax: 089/289-25257| PGP-Publickey auf Anfrage signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Pascal Neis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Die Seite braucht noch etwas Content und Optimierung bei der Kartographie, außerdem muss bei so großen Datensätzen an der Performance im Routing-Algorithmus selbst gearbeitet werden, aber das ist in Arbeit - so please be patient - work in progress... Aufgefallen ist mir, dass das ganze leider (noch) nicht wirklich fürs Fahrrad brauchbar ist. Man brächte dringend eine Maximalgeschwindigkeit sonst wird man dauernd über Schnellstraßen geschickt. Gerade Karlsruhe ist ja schon sehr gut erfasst und ich hätte jetzt gerade konkret Bedarf eine Radstrecke von ca. 9km quer durch die Stadt optimieren zu lassen :) Planst Du in Zukunft auch fahrradtaugliche Wege ins Routing zu integrieren? Sven -- Software is like sex; it's better when it's free (Linus Torvalds) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Du willst von Frankfurt nach Muenchen und weisst, dass auf der Strecke ueber Wuerzburg immer Staus sind? Am besten die aktuellen Staumeldungen unter www.lokale-radiostation.de gleich mit verwursten :) Sven -- The term any key does not refer to a particular key on the keyboard. It simply means to strike any one of the keys on your keyboard or handheld screen. (Compaq FAQ Entry 2859) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:37:43 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org To: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 00:13:24 +0200 (CEST) Pascal Neis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: btw: es gibt zus?tzlich noch einen erweiterten Routenplaner (Extended Routing Version!) auf der Website wo Ihr ?ber die Toolbox AvoidAreas Gebiete angeben k?nnt durch die Eure Route NICHT verlaufen soll. M?chtet Ihr z.B. ein Gebiet bei Eurer Route vermeiden k?nnt Ihr es ?ber das Tool angeben ... Anschlie?end wird eine optimale Route um das Gebiet herum berechnet. Is ja ganz geschickt f?r No-Go-Areas f?r Linke und Ausl?nder, k?nnte man gleich als feste Option avoid no-go-areas einbauen Einen anderen Sinn kann ich weniger erkennen, weshalb man bestimmte Gebiete meiden wollen w?rde...?! schonmal was von Katastrophenmanagment gehört? Hochwasser? oder wie Frederik schon erwähnt hat: Staus oder erhöhtes Verkehraufkommen/Feierabendverkehr? cheers pascal ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] informationsfreiheitsgesetz
Frank Sautter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: aber vielleicht ist unter uns mappern ja ein jurist, der sich berufen fühlt, hier mal eine rechtliche bewertung des ganzen zu machen. Puh! Mir würde es schon reichen, wenn man daraus eine rechtlich abgesicherte legale Nutzung der öffentlichen WMS-Dienste (Rheinland-Pfalz, NRW und Bayern haben sehr schöne Luftbilder) für OSM ableiten könnte. Sven -- If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable. (Windows 95 BSOD) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Heiko Jacobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In der Karlsruher City geht es noch gnadenlos durch Fußgängerzonen und absolute gesperrte Straßen (access=no). cool, das ist genau was ich brauche :) Sven -- Threading is a performance hack. (The Art of Unix Programming by Eric S. Raymond) /me is [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Traveling Salesman für OSM-Routing mit O penLayers
Hallo Stefan, wenn du ihn drin haben willst, bräuchte ich von dir nur eine Implementierung der zwei Methoden des IRouter-Interfaces. http://travelingsales.wiki.sourceforge.net/IRouter Den kann ich dir dann problemlos in TS aufnemen. Marcus Am 09.04.08 schrieb Stefan Keller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Routing-Algorithmen: Ich empfehle den Ameisen-Algorithmus. -- Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Talk-de Digest, Vol 21, Issue 40
-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:04:21 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org To: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:54:54 +0200 Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is ja ganz geschickt f?r No-Go-Areas f?r Linke und Ausl?nder, k?nnte man gleich als feste Option avoid no-go-areas einbauen ich wuesste da auch ein paar No-Go-Areas fuer Skins ;-) http://www.du-sollst-skinheads-nicht-mit-nazis-verwechseln.de/ Wobei ich es nicht unbedingt schlimm finde, wenn Faschisten/Rassisten nicht gerne gesehen werden, da finde ich es eher erschreckend, wenn Menschen mit so einer Ideologie toleriert werden. Intoleranz gegen?ber Intoleranz ist keine Intoleranz. Das ist eine Argumentationslinie der Neo-Nazis, um ihren Neo-Faschismus zu relativieren! Ich will jetzt aber keine Diskussion anstacheln *schon passiert* Die von Dir zitierte Seite ist meiner Ansicht nach trotzdem nicht ganz hasenrein, so findet sich unter zugegeben (http://www.du-sollst-skinheads-nicht-mit-nazis-verwechseln.de/zugegeben.php) zum Beispiel dieser Absatz (Hervorhebungen von mir): Immerhin: Der Autor dieser Homepage muss zugeben, dass auch Nazi-Glatzen tatsächlich so etwas wie den „rüden Ur-Gedanken in sich tragen und daher WIE GESCHAFFEN für einen „richtigen Skinhead sind. Seit Jahren rätselt der Verfasser dieser Zeilen darüber, ob nicht viele - gerade ganz junge Glatzen aus dem Osten - nur deshalb rechtsradikal sind, weil sie so gern Skinhead sein wollen. Vielleicht sorgt diese Homepage bei einigen dafür, dass sie verstehen: Niemand muss einen „auf Rechts machen, um Skinhead zu sein. Was noch lange nicht heißt, dass man jeden Ausländer tolerieren muss. Selbstverständlich DARF man ETWAS GEGEN AUSLAENDER haben - nur nicht per se bitte schön. Nichts spricht dagegen, einen Türken „als assig zu bezeichnen, wenn er gewalttätig oder unverschämt daherkommt. Die Reaktion einem Deutschen gegenüber wäre schließlich die Gleiche. Und wir wollen doch die Kirche mal im Dorf lassen: Sind es nicht MEIST Ausländer, die Skinheads gegenüber aggressiv werden? Oft halt zu Unrecht - auch Ausländer müssen eben noch dazu lernen. Das sind meiner Ansicht nach Verallgemeinerungen, die so nicht stehen bleiben können. Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Extrude-Mode
Sehr cooler Anfang, danke. Funktioniert zwar noch nicht zuverlässig (z.B. dupliziert er, wenn man nur clickt, die Linie und kreiert doppelte Nodes, oder es ist teilweise ein bisschen unklar, welche Linie er warum verschiebt (wohl bei sich kreuzenden Linien, er macht da noch keinen automatischen Node am Schnittpunkt)), aber es weckt Hoffnung, dass man damit bald arbeiten kann. Ich finde die Idee mit dem neuen Modus Geometrie eigentlich fürs erste ganz sinnvoll, zum einen, weil wir wohl noch mehrere Geometriefunktionen bekommen werden, zum anderen, weil ein Button offensichtlicher / intuitiver für den Ungeübten ist, im Vergleich zu einer Kombination SHIFT-rechts, mittlere Maustaste halten, dann ALT und STRG... Hinsichtlich der Bezeichung Extrudieren würde ich was anderes nehmen, da extrudieren (z.B. gem. Wikipedia: Extrusion bezeichnet in der Geometrie eine Dimensionserhöhung einer zweidimensionalen Form durch Parallelverschieben im Raum. Durch Extrusion einer Fläche erhält man einen Körper mit dem Querschnitt der Fläche.) eine Dimensionserhöhung bezeichnet. Man könnte z.B. Parallelverschiebung (parallel translation) verwenden. Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
Die wirst du nicht verwenden d?rfen. Hat schon jemand Fortschritte bzgl. Nmea-GPS-Ger?ten mit eingebautem TMC gemacht? Ja, die Sache ist im Prinzip schon offen: http://www.capuzza.com/detail.php?ID=123764 Mit Hilfe der in dem Blog-Eintrag erwähnten ISO Docs lassen sich die RDS/TMC Nachrichten vollständig parsen. Bei der Bast (http://www.bast.de/) kann dann kostenlos die Locationcode Tabelle bestellt werden: http://www.bast.de/cln_005/nn_42742/DE/Aufgaben/abteilung-v/referat-v2/Locat ion-Code-List/location-code-list-start.html Die aktuelle Liste sollte eigentlich seit gestern verfügbar sein (LCL 7.01). Die Ereigniscodes sind in den ISO Docs definiert. Ich habe eigentlich schon mal darüber nachgedacht mal die TMC Meldungen visuell in die OSM einzublenden, leider bin ich zeitlich dazu noch nicht gekommen. Ich habe jedoch schon Java Klassen, welche das Suchen eines Senders und das erste Auswerten der TCM Nachrichten erlauben. Die kann ich dir gerne schicken. Ich kann dir auch gerne alle Infos schicken, die ich bisher im Internet gesammelt habe. Viele Grüße, Adrian. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Internetseite gesucht
http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html?mt0=googlemapmt1=tahlon=10.00lat=53.58z=15 Hallo Liste, ich hatte mal eine Internetseite gefunden, auf der zwei Kartenfenster zu sehen waren bei denen man zB. auf der einen Karte OSM und auf der anderen Karte die Google Maps einstellen kann. Leider finde ich die Seite nicht mehr. Wer kann mir weiterhelfen? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Extrude-Mode
ja, das ist sicher so, die Bildschirmkoordinaten sind halt deutlich schlechter aufgelöst (denke ich zumindest, weiss nicht genau, wie hoch die Datenbankauflösung ist). 2008/4/9, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hallo, Trotzdem: cooles Tool, sehr vielversprechend! Ich muss allerdings noch irgendwie aendern, dass hinter den Kulissen mit exakten Koordinaten gearbeitet wird, denn im Moment geht alles mit Bildschirmkoordinaten, und wenn ich ein kompliziertes Shape bearbeite, erreiche ich irgendwann einen Punkt, wo Linien ganz leichte Knicke haben oder nicht mehr 100% parallel verlaufen... ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -- ___ | Martin Koppenhoefer Via Bixio, 29 / Int. 20 00185 Roma Italia 41°53.664', 012°30.549' tel1: +39 06.916508070 tel2: +49 30 868708638 mobil: +39 389 6488991 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.koppenhoefer.com Hinweis: Diese Nachricht wurde manuell erstellt. Wir bemühen uns um fehlerfreie Korrespondenz, dennoch kann es in Ausnahmefällen vorkommen, dass bei der manuellen Übertragung von Informationen in elektronische Medien die übertragenen Informationen Fehler aufweisen. Wir bitten Sie, dies zu entschuldigen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Probleme mit Mapnik
Hallo, An wen kann man sich denn speziell wenden, wenn man zu Mapnik Vorschläge / featurerequests hat? Steve Chilton macht das meistens. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Ways stapeln
Original-Nachricht Datum: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 10:24:09 +0200 Von: Bernhard Seckinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Ways stapeln Ich hab' früher auch immer Flächen leicht daneben getaggt; bin aber vor kurzem dazu übergegangen Ways zu stapeln, zum einen weil ich begriffen habe, wie das in JOSM funktioniert und zum anderen weil das Ergebnis einfach besser ausschaut. *seufz* Es fehlt einfach ein Modell, das beschreibt, was man da eigentlich einträgt. Die einen wollen in 10cm-Auflösung Blinden exakte Infos geben aber für die meisten soll es einfach gut ausschauen. Ich sehe in der Linie mit der man Wege oder Straßen einträgt üblicheweise die Mittellinie (bei Einbahnstr. ist es je nach Definition u.U. noch komplizierter). Fasst man Küstenlinien, Parks oder ähnliches mit den Straßen zusammen, gehen letztere also genaugenommen bis zur Mitte der Straße und der Fußgänger bekommt nasse Füße ;) Noch unsichtbarer und etwas problematischer ist die Vermischung von Flächen- und Streckennodes. Da die gestapelten ways 'durchkontaktiert' sind wie eine Leiterplatte werden Grenzen schnell zu Alternativwegen. Der letzte Damm, der gegen die vielen Fehlerquellen noch absichert ist die Eindeutigkeit des 'highway'-Tags. Aber bei einer kleinen Sichtung hat sich dann auch schnell highway=service eingefunden, mit dem eine Fläche getagged war, um die eindeutig keine Straße rumgeht. Grüße Hubert -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Ways stapeln
Hallo, Ich sehe in der Linie mit der man Wege oder Straßen einträgt üblicheweise die Mittellinie (bei Einbahnstr. ist es je nach Definition u.U. noch komplizierter). Fasst man Küstenlinien, Parks oder ähnliches mit den Straßen zusammen, gehen letztere also genaugenommen bis zur Mitte der Straße und der Fußgänger bekommt nasse Füße ;) Ist das schlimm? Wenn ich eine Applikation habe, die Strassen als Flaechen betrachten moechte, dann wuerde ich die OSM-Daten nach- verarbeiten und jeden Way als Mittellinie annehmen, dabei als Breite entweder eine explizit spezifizierte width verwenden oder anderenfalls einen Vorgabewert aus dem Strassentyp ableiten. Bei dieser Art der Nachverarbeitung koennte ich selbstverstaendlich jede Kante einer Flaeche, die auf der Strassenmitte verlaeuft, an den Strassenrand schieben, wenn das fuer mein Programm wichtig ist. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Ways stapeln
*seufz* Es fehlt einfach ein Modell, das beschreibt, was man da eigentlich einträgt. Die einen wollen in 10cm-Auflösung Blinden exakte Infos geben aber für die meisten soll es einfach gut ausschauen. *auchsoifz* Ich empfinde das derzeit so, dass eigentlich zwei Modelle gemischt werden: a) Eines für das Rendern b) Eines für das Routing Bei a) will man viele schöne Flächen haben Bei b) Linien, die richtig miteinander verbunden sind Ich mach' deswegen also Linien und zwischen die Linien Flächen. Meist komm ich damit recht gut klar. Grüßle, Berni -- -- Schau doch mal wieder bei CrocoPuzzle rein. (www.croco-puzzle.com) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Traveling Salesman für OSM-Routing mi t OpenLayers
Marcus Wolschon wrote: Hallo Stefan, wenn du ihn drin haben willst, bräuchte ich von dir nur eine Implementierung der zwei Methoden des IRouter-Interfaces. http://travelingsales.wiki.sourceforge.net/IRouter Den kann ich dir dann problemlos in TS aufnemen. Wenn mich nicht alles täuscht, ist A* und Ameisenalg. der selbe Alg. Da DirectedDepthFirstRouter (A*) bereits existiert, könnte dieser verwendet werden. Falls ich mich täuschen sollte, bitte korrigieren. Dijkstra hat übrigens ein optimales Ergebnis, dafür eine Laufzeitkomplexität von O(n Quadrat), d.h. doppelt so viele Straße, viermal so viel Rechenaufwand. A* ist viel schneller, dafür nur Heuristisch, d.h. die Lösung ist nur eine Näherung an das Optimum. MfG Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] http://www.openrouteservice.org
In diesem Fall müsste ein normaler Parkplatz (bei einer Kirche, Einkaufsladen, etc) oder andere Örtlichkeiten in der Umgebung als Parkplatz(Auto-abstell-platz) herhalten. So meine Idee..ist nur wie immer eine Frage der Umsetzung;-) Stefan Hirschmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Heiko Jacobs wrote: Interessant wird es ja, wenn man das Ziel an eine Stelle setzt, die nur so erreicht werden kann. Da sollte das Autofahrer-Modul dann ins nächste Parkhaus führen und statt Sie haben Ihr Ziel erreicht dann Ihr Ziel liegt nun 5 min zu Fuß von hier Halte ich für gefährlich. Wenn im ganzen Ort kein Parkhaus existiert, leitet es dich dann 40 km zum nächsten Parkhaus und das obwohl eine Kurzparkzone da wäre? Hervorheben OK, aber gleich auswählen? Nur so ein Gedanke. MfG Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de - Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail. Der Lieblings-Mailbox der Welt.___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Traveling Salesman für OSM-Routing mi t OpenLayers
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hallo, Dijkstra hat übrigens ein optimales Ergebnis, dafür eine Laufzeitkomplexität von O(n Quadrat), d.h. doppelt so viele Straße, viermal so viel Rechenaufwand. A* ist viel schneller, dafür nur Heuristisch, d.h. die Lösung ist nur eine Näherung an das Optimum. Das ist falsch. A* und Dijkstra finden beide eine optimale Loesung (sofern A* eine geeignete Heuristik verwendet, was bei Routing auf Geodaten trivialerweise mit der Luftlinie der Fall ist). Habe mir Wiki Artikel übe A* und AmeisenAlg http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameisenalgorithmus noch einmal durchgelesen. A* und Ameisen sind entgegen meiner Erinnerung zwei versch. Algorithmen. Also nehme ich alles zurück und behaupte das Gegenteil. Für A* hast du Recht, es liefert wirklich optimale Ergebnisse. Der Ameisen-Alg wird aber laut Wikipedia nicht für normales Routing, sondern erst für viel komplexere Sachen (das Problem des Handlungsreisenden, TSP [nicht das Prog, das Problem]) verwendet. Hoffe ich konnte meinen Irrtum erklären. MfG Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-es] Nota a los valencianos: un valenciano
Bueno, como veo que est creando cierto revuelo y aunque no lo he dibujado yo, dir que este logotipo se encontraba fsicamente dibujado en el gora de la Universidad hace unos pocos aos. Quizs la persona que lo ha hecho ha utilizado una imagen area en la que todava apareca. No creo que sea acertado calificarlo de "broma", aunque cada uno puede pensar lo que quiera. Supongo que es algo que pretende reflejar la realidad, como cuando alguien dibuja con detalle los bloques o tejados que forman un edificio importante, cosa que se ve en las mejores familias (en Berln, por ejemplo), aunque no se trate de elementos navegables. Para mi es diferente del hecho de dibujar el logo de la Coca Cola o el Carrefour como habeis dicho. Si debe desaparecer o no es un tema a debatir, sobre todo teniendo en cuenta que ahora ese logo ya no existe fsicamente en el gora. Pero tampoco me parece para tirarse de los pelos... Saludos, Juangui Ivn Snchez Ortega escribi: quote who="Nacho Blanco" O quiz publicidad. Ha llegado el "spam" a OSM? XD Pues no te creas, que es un tema serio... Primero, porque te puede caer un paquete de parte de la universidad, al haber usado el escudo, sobre el que seguramente tengan el copyright. Segundo, porque esto ya ha llegado a la lista inglesa general y a la legal, as que va a caer un broncazo. Tercero, porque si dejamos pasar esta broma, lo siguiente con lo que nos encontraremos ser con logotipos del carrefour encima de los centros comerciales. Ojo, que me parece loable el tiempo que alguien ha tenido que gastar convirtiendo el logotipo a formato OSM. Pero esto hay que considerarlo como vandalismo, y tiene que desaparecer de la base de datos. Un saludo, ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nota a los valencianos: un valenciano
Hola.. pues creo que ese logo todavía existe físicamente aunque me parece que no es tan grande como está ahí. Si alguien se anima a redimensionarlo por cierto .. se pueden escalar elementos con JOSM ? Lucas- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] en nombre de Juan Guillermo Jordán Aldasoro Enviado el: mié 09/04/2008 13:20 Para: Discusi#243; n en Espa#241;ol de OpenStreetMap Asunto: Re: [Talk-es] Nota a los valencianos: un valenciano Bueno, como veo que está creando cierto revuelo y aunque no lo he dibujado yo, diré que este logotipo se encontraba físicamente dibujado en el Ágora de la Universidad hace unos pocos años. Quizás la persona que lo ha hecho ha utilizado una imagen aérea en la que todavía aparecía. No creo que sea acertado calificarlo de broma, aunque cada uno puede pensar lo que quiera. Supongo que es algo que pretende reflejar la realidad, como cuando alguien dibuja con detalle los bloques o tejados que forman un edificio importante, cosa que se ve en las mejores familias (en Berlín, por ejemplo), aunque no se trate de elementos navegables. Para mi es diferente del hecho de dibujar el logo de la Coca Cola o el Carrefour como habeis dicho. Si debe desaparecer o no es un tema a debatir, sobre todo teniendo en cuenta que ahora ese logo ya no existe físicamente en el Ágora. Pero tampoco me parece para tirarse de los pelos... Saludos, Juangui Iván Sánchez Ortega escribió: quote who=Nacho Blanco O quizá publicidad. ¿Ha llegado el spam a OSM? XD Pues no te creas, que es un tema serio... Primero, porque te puede caer un paquete de parte de la universidad, al haber usado el escudo, sobre el que seguramente tengan el copyright. Segundo, porque esto ya ha llegado a la lista inglesa general y a la legal, así que va a caer un broncazo. Tercero, porque si dejamos pasar esta broma, lo siguiente con lo que nos encontraremos será con logotipos del carrefour encima de los centros comerciales. Ojo, que me parece loable el tiempo que alguien ha tenido que gastar convirtiendo el logotipo a formato OSM. Pero esto hay que considerarlo como vandalismo, y tiene que desaparecer de la base de datos. Un saludo, ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nota a los valencianos:
quote who=Nacho Blanco O quizá publicidad. ¿Ha llegado el spam a OSM? XD Pues no te creas, que es un tema serio... Primero, porque te puede caer un paquete de parte de la universidad, al haber usado el escudo, sobre el que seguramente tengan el copyright. Segundo, porque esto ya ha llegado a la lista inglesa general y a la legal, así que va a caer un broncazo. Tercero, porque si dejamos pasar esta broma, lo siguiente con lo que nos encontraremos será con logotipos del carrefour encima de los centros comerciales. Ojo, que me parece loable el tiempo que alguien ha tenido que gastar convirtiendo el logotipo a formato OSM. Pero esto hay que considerarlo como vandalismo, y tiene que desaparecer de la base de datos. Un saludo, -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nota a los valencianos:
2008/4/9, Suco [EMAIL PROTECTED]: De verdad que si 2008/4/9 Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ya os vale. Creo que alguno de vosotros se aburre demasiado... -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] jajajaja, qué grande eso es proselitismo universitario y lo demás tontadas :P (bueno, y probablemente aburrimiento :PPP) -- Jorge Gaspar Sanz Salinas Ingeniero en Geodesia y Cartografía http://www.geomaticblog.net http://www.prodevelop.es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Nota a los valencianos: un valenciano
En lugar de enviar emails absurdos a esta lista, creo que voy a empezar a mapear todo lo que falta en algunas zonas céntricas de Madrid. Lucas- ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Aquí falla algo
Hola, en los tags está la explicación: han importado cierta cartografía llamada vmap0 del gobierno de EE UU, que por lo que se ve no es ninguna maravilla... ya ves tú lo que les importará a los americanos el tren que cruza la provincia de Toledo :-P Pero bueno, que se vaya unas decenas de metros en una zona donde no hay nada no creo que sea muy grave. Se podría simplemente intentar corregir en los sitios donde se cruce con otros elementos. Lucas- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] en nombre de Carlos Dávila Enviado el: mié 09/04/2008 16:29 Para: Discusión en Español de OpenStreetMap Asunto: [Talk-es] Aquí falla algo Hola a todos En los últimos días han ido apareciendo diversos tramos de líneas de ferrocarril. En este tramo (1) la vía cruza la A-5, pero en la realidad no es así, sino que pasa a unos 80 metros (a ojímetro). ¿Puede mirar alguien qué es lo que está mal?¿Afecta sólo a este tramo de vía o el desplazamiento es general? Saludos Carlos (1) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.9821lon=-4.7355zoom=12layers=B0FT ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Posible bombazo
Entiendo que no podremos coger directamente los datos del IGN y volcarlos a OSM, debido a que los datos en OSM tienen que ser completamente libres mientras que el Estado se reserva el derecho de explotación comercial de los datos del IGN :/ Sin embargo, hay en el texto de la órden he visto un par de párrafos que me han parecido interesantes: por resolución del Presidente del CNIG podrán establecerse condiciones específicas para la cesión masiva y gratuita de datos a través de plataformas de distribución en Internet. [..] Cuando se trate de información geográfica coproducida con otras instituciones, el Convenio que regule esa colaboración establecerá la política de licencias que debe aplicarse. Podríamos llegar a un acuerdo con el Presidente del CNIG por el cual nos permitan acceder a parte de sus datos para que sean convertidos en mapas y datos de OSM, siendo la licencia de los datos convertidos una licencia libre completamente. Saludos, kresp0. --- El mar, 8/4/08, Celso González [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: De: Celso González [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: [Talk-es] Posible bombazo Para: talk-es@openstreetmap.org Fecha: martes, 8 abril, 2008 12:15 Segun anuncia Ivan Aún quedan flecos por confirmar así que si alguien tiene conocimientos legales y puede aportar luz que lo haga. http://www.boe.es/g/es/bases_datos/doc.php?coleccion=indilexid=2008/06229txtlen=1000 -- Celso González (PerroVerd) http://mitago.net ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es __ ¿Con Mascota por primera vez? Sé un mejor Amigo. Entra en Yahoo! Respuestas http://es.answers.yahoo.com/info/welcome ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
[Talk-es] EMT en el mapa de Madrid
Hola, Acabamos de enviar un mail a Arturo Martínez Ginestal, Director de Tecnología, SIC y Calidad de la EMT, pidiendo su colaboración con el tema de las trazas GPS de los autobuses. Os pego el mail: - Estimado Arturo, Vamos a presentarle una idea que creemos que puede ser de su interés: queremos añadir las líneas y paradas de la EMT en el mapa libre de Madrid de OpenStreetMap. Según la Wikipedia: OpenStreetMap es un proyecto colaborativo para crear mapas libres y editables. Los mapas se crean utilizando información geográfica capturada con dispositivos GPS móviles y otras fuentes libres. Actualmente su cartografía se distribuye bajo licencia Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0. Puedes ver el estado del arte del proyecto en: http://openstreetmap.org La ciudad de Madrid está bastante avanzada, pero aún nos queda mucho trabajo por hacer. Las calles se dibujan sobre las trazas GPS que subimos los voluntarios y sobre la fotografía aérea que Yahoo! permite usar para este proyecto. Hemos leído con entusiasmo [1] algunos documentos publicados por la EMT, en especial la presentación La información “on line” como factor clave de la movilidad de Octubre de 2007 [2]. La idea es añadir las 212 líneas de la red de la EMT (con sus paradas) en el mapa de Madrid de OSM. Es posible añadir información extra a cada línea o parada: * Las líneas que paran * Los tiempos de paso de cada línea * El número de parada que se usa en los servicios de información de tiempo de espera * Los horarios de servicio de cada tipo de línea * ... Los mapas de OSM tienen una licencia de uso libre, por lo que es accesible y se puede integrar fácilmente con cualquier aplicación. Así por ejemplo, un usuario de un navegador GPS/dispositivo móvil que use los mapas de OSM podrán consultar desde cualquier lugar dónde y cuál es el número de parada que está en un par de bloques más allá, y así saber lo que tardará el bus antes incluso de llegar a la parada (podrá correr si quedan 2 minutos!). Si como esperamos se guardan los datos GPS enviados por los autobuses e-bus en el Puesto Central de Control, sería una GRANDISIMA ayuda si nos permitiesen dibujar los recorridos de las líneas sobre las trazas GPS de los autobuses. Para ello haría falta subir en la web de OSM los puntos GPS capturados durante un día normal en la red de la EMT. Con esto conseguiríamos una mayor exactitud al dibujar las calles por las que circulan los autobuses, con lo que el mapa de Madrid se perfeccionará más aún. Cuantas más trazas subamos, más precisión tendrá el mapa. Por otro lado, también nos facilitaría mucho trabajo si tenéis las coordenadas (o puntos GPS) de las paradas. Aunque hemos visto que tienen un mapa muy bueno en emtmadrid.es, esperamos que algún día el mapa libre de Madrid será tan bueno que se empiece a usar para mostrar los recorridos de las líneas ;) Muchas gracias por su atención, Santiago Crespo Sergio Ballesteros [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Spain_Potential_Datasources#EMT [2] http://www.munimadrid.es/UnidadesDescentralizadas/UDCMovilidadTransportes/Publicaciones/TemaMovilidad/Trafic2007/Ficheros/La%20informaci%C3%B3n%20on%20line%20como%20factor%20clave%20de%20la%20movilidad.pdf . __ Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! Más formas de estar en contacto. http://es.docs.yahoo.com/mail/overview/index.html ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-es
[OSM-talk-fr] Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet)
Voici un reportage photo sur navteq : http://www.zdnet.fr/galerie-image/0,50018840,39380306,00.htm ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet)
Différents points à noter: - la base ne possède pas les chemins de terre ou sentiers de randonnée (p.10) - il y a aussi une version pour camions (hauteur de ponts) et une pour piétons (mais sans sentiers de randonnées ?!) Quelques stats (p.8): - 1,2 million de noms de rues en France - 602 802 lieux-dits - 1,2 million de routes carrossables (+ 4 500 km en 1 an) (je suppose 1,2 million de kilomètres...) - 31 500 ronds-points - 80 500 km de rues à sens unique (+ 1 500 km en 1 an) qui seraient intéressantes à comparer avec les stats OSM... A noter qu'ils ne proposent rien pour les cyclo, un autre point à l'avantage d'OSM. Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet)
Quelques stats (p.8): (...) - 1,2 million de routes carrossables (+ 4 500 km en 1 an) (je suppose 1,2 million de kilomètres...) (...) D'ailleurs à ce propos, je crois que ça avait déjà été discuté, mais existe-t-il des stats OSM de ce type ? j'ai bien trouvé le nombre de node, le nombre de contributeurs, mais j'ai rien trouvé sur le nombre de rond point ou sur le nombre de km déjà mappés. cerise sur le gateau : avec répartition par département ? J'imagine que la requête SQL doit être bien velue, mais ce serait sympa d'avoir ça quelque part non ? -- Sylvain Letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber id : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet)
Plop, j'ai bien trouvé le nombre de node, le nombre de contributeurs, mais j'ai rien trouvé sur le nombre de rond point ou sur le nombre de km déjà mappés. gis=# select count(*) from planet_osm_line where junction = 'roundabout'; count --- 6301 (1 ligne) Ce qui nous fait 6301 ronds points pour la France ; pour les km deja mappés, euh, joker, je ne suis pas encore suffisemment un doué du postgis pour trouver tout ca ;-) (note : Ce n'est pas non plus la derniere hexagone.osm, elle doit avoir au plus 3 semaines). ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet)
Ce que j'en retient :), c'est que les cartographes navteq seraient d'excellent contributeurs OSM :) On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Pierre Mauduit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plop, j'ai bien trouvé le nombre de node, le nombre de contributeurs, mais j'ai rien trouvé sur le nombre de rond point ou sur le nombre de km déjà mappés. gis=# select count(*) from planet_osm_line where junction = 'roundabout'; count --- 6301 (1 ligne) Ce qui nous fait 6301 ronds points pour la France ; pour les km deja mappés, euh, joker, je ne suis pas encore suffisemment un doué du postgis pour trouver tout ca ;-) (note : Ce n'est pas non plus la derniere hexagone.osm, elle doit avoir au plus 3 semaines). ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Re : Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet)
C'est sur qu'avec 100 personnes payées à plein temps, équipées de véhicules dédiés, l'accès à toute la base photographique IGN, et du caburant à volonté, on irait plus vite qu'à 200 bénévoles qui font sur leur temps perdu avec leur petit GPS, les quelques photos Yahoo! et de l'huile de genoux pour actionner les pédales... Mais on progresse... La carte s'étoffe chaque semaine. - Message d'origine De : Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] À : Discussions sur OSM en francais talk-fr@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Mercredi, 9 Avril 2008, 20h21mn 13s Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet) Ce que j'en retient :), c'est que les cartographes navteq seraient d'excellent contributeurs OSM :) On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Pierre Mauduit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plop, j'ai bien trouvé le nombre de node, le nombre de contributeurs, mais j'ai rien trouvé sur le nombre de rond point ou sur le nombre de km déjà mappés. gis=# select count(*) from planet_osm_line where junction = 'roundabout'; count --- 6301 (1 ligne) Ce qui nous fait 6301 ronds points pour la France ; pour les km deja mappés, euh, joker, je ne suis pas encore suffisemment un doué du postgis pour trouver tout ca ;-) (note : Ce n'est pas non plus la derniere hexagone.osm, elle doit avoir au plus 3 semaines). ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Une boite mail plus intelligente http://mail.yahoo.fr___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Re : Reportage photo sur navteq (zdnet)
Arnaud CORBET a écrit : on irait plus vite qu'à 200 bénévoles On a une idée du nombre exact de contributeurs actifs en France? Alban ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [Talk-GB] reprojected NPE
I've just taken a look at the Canterbury tile. It looks good, although I'd observe that there is a noticeable horizontal shift in places. Look at Stone Street, for example (That's the B2068 Roman Road south of Canterbury for non-locals on the list.). Was it our email conversation the other day which sparked you to look at this? Gregory -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Sheerman-Chase Sent: 9 April 2008 18:55 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] reprojected NPE Hi all, I have put a small test version of the NPE map reprojected for more accurate use in JOSM. The URL is: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~timsc/wms/quickmap.php? I have only uploaded 3 tiles each 0.1 by 0.1 degrees. The areas are Gravesend, Canterbury and Ashford, all in Kent. You might notice the grid lines are no longer horizontal and vertical unlike the GBOS NPE tiles. I would appreciate feedback or suggestions. If feedback is positive, I will reproject the whole of the UK NPE and upload it to the dev server. Also it may be worth adding the WMS to JOSM by default. Regards, Tim ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] reprojected NPE
Tim Sheerman-Chase wrote: It may be worth reassembling the NPE map (from tiles or backup) and retiling, it but it would be a big job! (The potlatch blog mentioned anchor points and improving alignments...) I'm plotting anchor points on 5km x 5km squares which is working pretty well. You still need to do a little manual shifting for alignment, but this is mostly due to inaccuracy in NPE itself rather than in the reprojection. The whole thing is implemented in PHP and Imagemagick. It takes about 60 seconds to render one 0.1 by 0.1 tile - pretty slow! The GD library is much faster but it does not seem to have an affine transform function. Ah, ok. I'm using Perl and Imager, you're not even limited to affine transforms with that. :) I did see you are making NPE available on Potlatch. What projection is this in? I am guessing spherical Mercator. Yep, standard Google-like spherical Mercator tiles. They're at http://richard.dev.openstreetmap.org/npe/z/x/y.jpg where 'z' is 14 only at the moment, and x and y are Wales! (But growing.) Is there some way in which JOSM can display these tiles? Is the 300dpi data available on the dev server or perhaps elsewhere? The originals are way too big to put anywhere, I'm afraid. But the data at the address above is barely reduced in resolution and is a lot more manageable. cheers Richard ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
