date:20081126

Hi,

Steven Le Roux wrote:
 but... guys... OSB is a quite fresh useful tool... don't expect it to
 bring all the piece you need (API...)

A daily dump of the database content in any format would probably be 
sufficient for now. An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself 
proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-)

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?

2008-11-26 Thread Christoph Böhme

Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
 An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself 
 proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-)

There is an openstreetbug-plugin for josm. It works by parsing the
javascript responses from the openstreetbugs-website. So, there is
already some kind of API which makes it possible to use openstreetbugs
in other application.

I would be happy to contribute to a redevelopment of openstreetbugs. A
while ago I started to use it extensively mostly for notes to myself and
to-do items. By using osb in these new ways, I began to miss a number
of features like assigning a bug to someone, keeping old bugs for
reference (especially if they turned out to be wrong), and having
different types or importances of bugs. I would also love to see an
Report Bug tab next to the edit tab on openstreetmap.org.

Cheers,
Christoph

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?

2008-11-26 Thread Hakan Tandogan


On Wed, November 26, 2008 11:32, Hakan Tandogan wrote:


 On Wed, November 26, 2008 11:24, David Earl wrote:

 On 26/11/2008 10:11, Frederik Ramm wrote:


 Hi,



 Steven Le Roux wrote:


 but... guys... OSB is a quite fresh useful tool... don't expect it
 to bring all the piece you need (API...)

 A daily dump of the database content in any format would probably be
 sufficient for now. An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself
 proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-)

 There is an RSS feed from OpenStreetBugs which is, in effect, a regular
  localised dump. It's what you need if you're mentoring a particular
 area.

 Where is that RSS feed links? I can't find anything in the links page
 or on the main page of www.openstreetbugs.org

Please disregard my question, I just found that you get the RSS link as
soon as you are zoomed in to Level 11.

I always had the impression that no one used OSB in the general area of
Turkey because I never saw any bug icons there, but zooming in deeper
clearly shows some of the icons.

In that case, the problem remains that you can't get a feed of a large but
sparsely populated area like the whole of turkey. Would manipulating the
coordinates in the RSS url work or is there a check for too large areas in
the server code?


Regards,
Hakan


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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering barangays for the Philippines

2008-11-26 Thread Elena of Valhalla

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [...] why should snow maps be any different to cycling or 'in-line skating' ;)

well, you don't have a tag that shows whether a cycle route is opened
or closed due to the weather

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Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features


 However, if there is a strong opposition (but not only from one
 person), then I would also suggest to re-open the proposal and try to
 reply to the valid remarks/questions.

I agree with, that. However, I won't say that their are strong oppositions, 
for what I have read (appart from Andy laughing, wich already makes it a good 
proposition for that point, since everyone likes laughing) but constructives 
remarks.

I would put appart the chrisCF problem, wich is imho a one man problem, but of 
no concern with the proposal (any attempt to let him talk here has failed, 
any attempt to let him propose a better thing failed) and if you dig a bit in 
the wiki, he is just of constant bad faith, willing a fight, liking to 
disturb things.
that is easy to solve : delete is account

You want to have you opinion ?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chriscf

I bet he is the number one man of undos :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Rejected_features/Statusaction=history
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Talk:Erfurtaction=history

And of, course, his new ultimate suprem ~20 undos record :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Template:Map_Features:smoothnessaction=history

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?

2008-11-26 Thread Florian Lohoff

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:12:53AM +, Christoph Böhme wrote:
 Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
  An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself 
  proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-)
 
 There is an openstreetbug-plugin for josm. It works by parsing the
 javascript responses from the openstreetbugs-website. So, there is
 already some kind of API which makes it possible to use openstreetbugs
 in other application.
 
 I would be happy to contribute to a redevelopment of openstreetbugs. A
 while ago I started to use it extensively mostly for notes to myself and
 to-do items. By using osb in these new ways, I began to miss a number
 of features like assigning a bug to someone, keeping old bugs for
 reference (especially if they turned out to be wrong), and having
 different types or importances of bugs. I would also love to see an
 Report Bug tab next to the edit tab on openstreetmap.org.

I second this - OpenStreetBugs has become a very important reporting
tool that Aunt Tilly who has very good local knowledge can report
bugs/inconsistencys/missing features to the mappers.

I think its worth beeing included on the main page - Probably it would
be a good idea to make it more open, put the code into svn, make the
database schemas visible so that we do not depend on a single person.

Flo
-- 
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  security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering barangays for the Philippines

2008-11-26 Thread Lester Caine

Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Erik Johansson wrote:
 pat=patuqutaujuq == natural=snow
 pat=patuqun == natural=snow
 pat=patpat == natural=snow
 
 Ah, the old story about the various Inuit names for snow, isn't it.
 
 How about
 
 natural=snow
 snow=slush
 snow=sleet
 snow=blizzard
 snow=drift
 snow=white-out
 snow=flurry
 snow=powder
 snow=dusting
 snow=hardpack
 snow=crust
 
 if you're looking for diversity. - All these should, of course, ideally 
 take the form of multiple tags, with one first saying there is snow 
 and then, in a second or third tag, say something about where it came 
 from, where it goes to, how much there is, how cold it is, and whether 
 or not it has dog pee traces in it.

I know this was a bit tongue in cheek, but with the ski season for the 
north with us, up to date maps showing the show conditions are probably 
of interest to a lot of people. I'm certainly not one of them, but why 
should snow maps be any different to cycling or 'in-line skating' ;)

-- 
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-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
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Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features ( become wiki tool is bad )

On Wednesday 26 November 2008 10:09, Ed Loach wrote:
  PS: so, don't you think wiki would be good to talk about all
  that ? (or a
  forum ?)
 
 It's a time thing partly. 
I understand your point, wikimedia has a damed bad missing feature :
- sending a mail on modify of page (with modification) you are interested in 
(or if it exist, I am just blind)

That's why I would be so much happy that discussions take place on a forum, 
and wiki serves only for résumé

I've been using wikis for about 3 years (starting with wikipedia) and whatever 
my level of knowledge on it have reached, wikimedia is NOT good for 
discussions.

But diffusion lists are almost as bad in many others regards, missing (easy) 
links, pictures, syntaxe enlighting (don't tell me HTML exists, It's just a 
pain in emails).

Forums are IMHO the best trade off for our needs, with a wiki as established 
thing pages and list as new announcements

Keep in mind I am talking about the technical tool, not about the goal we have 
for it.
 so perhaps there should be a post
 here to mention the start of each proposal phase and another saying
 that a phase will close 
If I remember well in the case of smoothness, I have made the vote starting 
annoucement here.
However I droped the vote send approach annoucement


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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering barangays for the Philippines

 How about
 
 natural=snow
 snow=slush
 snow=sleet
 snow=blizzard
 snow=drift
 snow=white-out
 snow=flurry
 snow=powder
 snow=dusting
 snow=hardpack
 snow=crust

I almost got to use natural=snow here the other day but it had
melted before I could get the computer booted.

Ed



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?

2008-11-26 Thread Hakan Tandogan


On Wed, November 26, 2008 11:24, David Earl wrote:
 On 26/11/2008 10:11, Frederik Ramm wrote:

 Hi,


 Steven Le Roux wrote:

 but... guys... OSB is a quite fresh useful tool... don't expect it to
  bring all the piece you need (API...)

 A daily dump of the database content in any format would probably be
 sufficient for now. An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself
 proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-)

 There is an RSS feed from OpenStreetBugs which is, in effect, a regular
 localised dump. It's what you need if you're mentoring a particular area.

Where is that RSS feed links? I can't find anything in the links page or
on the main page of www.openstreetbugs.org


Regards,
Hakan


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Pretty image of the planet (and some scribbles)

Hi,

OJ W wrote:
 Thanks - I was looking for a special image for christmas week (when
 everyone's at home with new computers and deciding what to do with
 their new GPS) 

... while not being able to upload anything to OSM because they're 
switching to 0.6 ;-)

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs

2008-11-26 Thread Matthias Julius

Xav [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 There is no published API documentation because :
   - the API is not clean
   - I fear it's showing the big hole to spamers (if a spamer want to 
 spam OSB, he always will find the hole... but the later the better)

If someone wants to spam OSB he always can look at your JavaScript
code to find out how.  Not documenting the API gives OSB very little
protection.  It just makes it harder for legitimate users.

 Now it is well known. I'm okay to publish the sources.
   - the server side is quite special (GoogleAppEngine/BigTable)
   - the client side is ugly and some would want to rewrite it from the start
   - I'm not certain it would be beneficial for the simplicity of OSB

I don't really get your last point here.  You don't have to put it in
OSM's SVN (although this would be preferred by many people here, I
guess).  You can put it on SourceForge for example and still be in
control of the code.

Matthias

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs

2008-11-26 Thread Xav

Hi,

I'm the creator/administrator/grand-gourou of OSB, and I'm always aware 
of this mailing-list :-)

So...

David :
 As the comments are all anonymous, I wonder whether there could be a 
 third mode which is reviewed but not changed which stays on the
 map.

That may be a good idea...
A new step ?
  1. bug to see (the actual non-closed state)
  2. reviewed bug/parked (discussed, strange, etc.)
  3. closed

What do you think ?

 Norbert:
 I would think that adding the data layer to OSB would help very
 much on that issue.
David :
 I think this would be confusing for non mappers for whom this tool is
 primarily intended.

I do not know if it's easy to add this strange layer.
I have no objection because :
  - you think it's useful for your use
  - 95% of the newbies don't try other layers
  - it could be a first approach for them to see THE data

Frederik :
 The OpenStreetBugs source code is not published. Your only way to 
 improve OpenStreetBugs in any way is to politely ask the author to do
 something for you. No SVN or something.

You're half right.
The server side code has never been published.
The client side code is pure Javascript/Ajax... so you can easily view it.

Frederik :
 The data collected by OpenStreetBugs is available exclusively through
 the OpenStreetBugs service.
Matthias :
 and it should have an API to enable editors to get to the data.

There is an embryon of an API.
Regularly, some people ask me for an API. I give it to them with pleasure.
Some external services already use it :
  http://www.andnav.org/
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSB_Reports
Maybe other ones.

There is no published API documentation because :
  - the API is not clean
  - I fear it's showing the big hole to spamers (if a spamer want to 
spam OSB, he always will find the hole... but the later the better)

Frederik :
 No regular planet dumps, nothing.

I made one, one day. See there :
http://openstreetbugs.blogspot.com/2008/09/something-new.html

And Gary68 does some tiny dumps regularly :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSB_Reports

 Frederik :
 A daily dump of the database content in any format would probably
 be sufficient for now.
David :
 There is an RSS feed from OpenStreetBugs which is, in effect, a
 regular localised dump. It's what you need if you're mentoring a
 particular area.

David, I think it's just a question of psychology.
People (and Frederik in this case) would be reassured if the data is 
available. Not that they would use it, but it would just be more 
comfortable to know that, in any case, the data is still available.

Regular planet dumps are easy to do but require some warning.
If someone wants to make one big regular dump on its server, I'll be 
glad to give him the instructions.

I can not do it on the server of OSB because :
  - no cron available
  - no access to the file system
  - files should not be more than 1Mb

Hakan :
 Where is that RSS feed links? I can't find anything in the links
 page or on the main page of www.openstreetbugs.org

To be kind with the database, you can only get the data of a small area. 
The RSS link will appear at the bottom right if you zoom an area.

If you want a global survey of OSB, you can go there :
http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/stats/lastTen
This is not useful at all... just funny...

Frederik :
 If the author gets run over by a bus tomorrow then we have nothing
 left.

Ouch.
I'm less important than data. :-)
But you are right. This is a problem.

Frederik :
 If the above is true then I'm all for implementing our own, open 
 version of OpenStreetBugs, instead of further popularizing the 
 existing application.

Or you should ask the author to publish his code. :-)

I've been conservative at the beginning because :
  - I feared that some script kiddies would make duplicated OSBs and 
duplicated content.
  - I feared that everybody would not agree with the simplicity of OSB 
(this extreme simplicity is its strong in my opinion)

Now it is well known. I'm okay to publish the sources.
  - the server side is quite special (GoogleAppEngine/BigTable)
  - the client side is ugly and some would want to rewrite it from the start
  - I'm not certain it would be beneficial for the simplicity of OSB

If someone has some advices in terms of open-source project management, 
contact me.

Matthias :
 Or even an OSB layer on the main map?

That's a good idea.
This can be done by anybody :
  - the javascript client is public
  - the server side is accessible via an API


Kyle :
 As far as I can see, OSB is aimed at regular users who are not
 terribly interested in contributing, but would happily click a button
 _or two_ to report an error.

That's exactly my point of view !
Keep It Simple.
Or use Potlatch.

RalfZ :
 People typically write posts on the mailing lists when things don't 
 work. I want to tell you that I think OpenStreetBugs works nicely in 
 the area of Munich, Germany.

Thanks :-)
Germany is very active on OSB. Because of the high

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?

2008-11-26 Thread Florian Lohoff

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:11:22AM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Steven Le Roux wrote:
  but... guys... OSB is a quite fresh useful tool... don't expect it to
  bring all the piece you need (API...)
 
 A daily dump of the database content in any format would probably be 
 sufficient for now. An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself 
 proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-)

The API is defined and Xav answers questions on it very quick and even
extends it on request - This is i guess  how the JOSM OSB Plugin was created ...

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff  [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134
Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little 
  security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs

2008-11-26 Thread Hakan Tandogan


On Wed, November 26, 2008 12:01, Xav wrote:
 No regular planet dumps, nothing.

 And Gary68 does some tiny dumps regularly :
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSB_Reports

 ...

 Where is that RSS feed links? I can't find anything in the links
 page or on the main page of www.openstreetbugs.org

 To be kind with the database, you can only get the data of a small area.
 The RSS link will appear at the bottom right if you zoom an area.

I see. Gary just reperatedly polls your server for a given subarea and
stitches the returned data, hoping that he will catch all entries in the
given area.

Not really something you want to do regularly ;-)

Maybe you could allow bigger requests, but cut off the RSS data after so
many entries (say, the 80 you already have implemented) ?


Regards,
Hakan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features

 PS: so, don't you think wiki would be good to talk about all
 that ? (or a
 forum ?)

It's a time thing partly. By the time I've read the couple of
hundred or so emails that arrive each day, done a day's work and
spent at least some time with my family, time to start then reading
web-based forums and then visiting wiki pages to see if there may or
may not have been any discussion on them is time I rarely have.
Email in that respect is much better for discussions and I see
little difference between what people have to do to sign up for an
email list from having to sign up for a wiki account.

Also back in September I'd not really tried much wiki editing and
not knowing how it all worked was a bit off putting working out how
to edit just to comment; I know how to use email... I've learned a
lot since by expanding the pages related to progress in places in
Essex, and looking at the code that generates the maplint tests from
the Map Features page, so if a proposal gets mentioned on this list
I do usually go and have a quick look. It is unlikely I'd go back
after the initial mention though, so perhaps there should be a post
here to mention the start of each proposal phase and another saying
that a phase will close in a certain number of days if no more
comments/votes whatever are received. I think sometimes I see those
here, but certainly not for all the proposals. 

Ed



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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?

On 26/11/2008 10:11, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Steven Le Roux wrote:
 but... guys... OSB is a quite fresh useful tool... don't expect it to
 bring all the piece you need (API...)
 
 A daily dump of the database content in any format would probably be 
 sufficient for now. An API would be cool of course but as OSM itself 
 proves, if you offer dumps then others can do the API ;-)

There is an RSS feed from OpenStreetBugs which is, in effect, a regular 
localised dump. It's what you need if you're mentoring a particular area.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetBugs - open or not?

 Where is that RSS feed links? I can't find anything in the
 links page or
 on the main page of www.openstreetbugs.org

Further to this, when you are using the website, how do you know how
old the comments are in case they are already fixed. There are two
near here. One says there is another road here and I don't know
whether it means a nearby farm track which isn't currently mapped or
the road it is (now) on. The other says the coastline joining to the
river isn't done correctly at a point where the coastline joins to
another bit of coastline. I'm tempted to close them both, but don't
know how old they are or how to contact the person who added them
for more details.

OK. I've answered my own question and clicked in the bottom left
hand corner on As RSS feed and it has returned the three nearest
items with date (July 2008). Now to check the history on the
relevant ways to see if they are newer.

Ed



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[OSM-talk] [Voting] Re-opening the smoothness vote page ?

For a bit of history, I have opened the smoothness voting windows for a 3 
month period
from 2008-09-20
to 2008-12-20

Because I thought, as pieren also privatly suggested me, that voting and RFC 
are just too short perioded

So, in my mind and thought I overcome usual 1 month period with a trade off of 
3 month. ( I would have gone for 6 if that was only me )

After around 1 month, some one unilateraly decided to approved this feature 
because many yes where allready there and that nothing will change.
I remove his changed arguing that yes are not a suffisent value on their 
own, a very good coming (argumented !!) opposition will make me revert my 
vote, yeah ! even on my own proposal. I've allready done that.

But because I faced opposition of my opposition, I revert my changes and made 
it approved At that right moment, a mail of needed help on that list would 
have been a good idea from me.
 
BUT !!!

All this is not finished, I start remembering the book World in Eighty Days, 
until last ultimate limit, not every thing is done.

The original ending period is 2008-12-20, that leaves 24 days for other 
arguments until now.

I doubt that will end in a Refused proposal, but good comment are still 
welcome, things might still change, and less subjectives idea are welcome

-- 
Sylvain Letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
qui suis-je : http://slyserv.dyndns.org



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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM not acceptable for geocaching.com

2008-11-26 Thread Nick Black

Did you get anywhere with this? Have you tried emailing the admins at
geocaching.com to see why they removed the cache? I'd love to hear more.

Nick

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Thomas Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

2008/11/15 Till Harbaum / Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Hi,

i have recently released a geocache which basically required you to look
up a certain node
in the OSM database. The position of that node was then the place where
the geocache was
hidden. Geocaching.com users can perhaps still read the original listing
at:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=80a9308b-6719-485d-a0dc-846798a8cac2

Through a bug in their site code, the original listing is visible
here:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cdpf.aspx?guid=80a9308b-6719-485d-a0dc-846798a8cac2

Geocaching.com recently completely deleted that cache antry as they claim
that it forces you to use a certain
software (a web browser!!!) and a certain web service.

They have un-published the listing, an event that occurs not very
often - usually only if the reviewer who published it realises they
made a mistake soon after.
The specific guideline reads something like caches that require
(unusual) third party software to be installed are not permitted,
there's also a similar rule about cache perminance in terms of
external resources on the net - eg hosting an mp3 on a personal
website will not be acceptable as a part of the 'puzzle' as they have
a habit of falling offline.

This is a strange explanation as geocaches requesting you to find a
certain image on google earth
are pretty common. On the other hand Geocaching.com seems to have a
business with google. This
may be the explanation why they don't like to deal with openstreetmap. I
really wonder if
it's google behind this.

They have business with Google as far as using their Maps API,
publishing KML files, and using AdWords, I don't think they have any
further links with them.

This includes quite extreme behaviour on the GC.com side as they are not
using their usual methods
of disabling or archiving caches. Instead they reset their entire
database with respect to this
cache to the state before it was published. It's like they really want to
clean all traces related to
this geocache.

The GC.com side is usually just a volunteer reviewer rather than one
of the company's employees. As noted, caches can be removed completely
from the site - 'unpublished' on the event of the reviewer making a
mistake.

IMHO a very interesting issue and may mean that google sees a serious
competitor arriving ...

Not in my view.

Till

I'm asking some contacts I have to see if I can get the full logs for
publishing and subsequent removal of it to see if a reason is further
given.

--
Regards,
Thomas Wood
(Edgemaster)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Openstreetmap iPhone app

Hi,
take a look at opentouchmap.org
It is currently the best slippymap for the iphone-safari. But a real app 
with search... would be much cooler.

Jonas

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[OSM-talk] Map of the world as we know it

2008-11-26 Thread Steve Chilton

Anyone wanting a little light relief after the recent flames might like
(particularly if you are an REM fan) to head over to:
http://apb.directionsmag.com/archives/5084-Music-Video-Map-of-the-World-
as-We-Know-it.html#extended

Cheers
STEVE

Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow
Manager of e-Learning Academic Development
Centre for Educational Technology
Middlesex University
phone/fax: 020 8411 5355
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp

Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/

SoC conference 2008:
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/



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Re: [OSM-talk] Openstreetmap iPhone app

2008-11-26 Thread John McKerrell



On 26 Nov 2008, at 15:28, John07 wrote:


Hi,
take a look at opentouchmap.org
It is currently the best slippymap for the iphone-safari. But a real  
app

with search... would be much cooler.


This is indeed quite nice.

I should've mentioned the other day that my iFreeThePostcode app is  
now live on the app store, you can see it here (opens in iTunes) http://icanhaz.com/freepost 
...


It's had quite a few downloads so far but I've yet to hear from  
Dominic Hargreaves whether there's also been a worthwhile increase in  
submissions.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM not acceptable for geocaching.com

2008-11-26 Thread Thomas Wood

I realised after sending the email that Till is/was the owner of the cache.
However, it appears that the cache is once again active. Now that the
logs are visible again, it is clear that the cache was removed due to
the requirement to use an external piece of software/website resource.
As noted, (afaik) they implemented this policy due to the general
unreliability of external services.

2008/11/26 Nick Black [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Did you get anywhere with this? Have you tried emailing the admins at
geocaching.com to see why they removed the cache? I'd love to hear more.

Nick

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Thomas Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

2008/11/15 Till Harbaum / Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Hi,

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=80a9308b-6719-485d-a0dc-846798a8cac2

Through a bug in their site code, the original listing is visible
here:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cdpf.aspx?guid=80a9308b-6719-485d-a0dc-846798a8cac2

Geocaching.com recently completely deleted that cache antry as they
claim that it forces you to use a certain
software (a web browser!!!) and a certain web service.

They have business with Google as far as using their Maps API,
publishing KML files, and using AdWords, I don't think they have any
further links with them.

IMHO a very interesting issue and may mean that google sees a serious
competitor arriving ...

Not in my view.

Till

I'm asking some contacts I have to see if I can get the full logs for
publishing and subsequent removal of it to see if a reason is further
given.

--
Regards,
Thomas Wood
(Edgemaster)

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http://www.blacksworld.net

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[OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Steffen Vogel

As a user and mapper of OpenStreetMap, I often use OpenStreetBugs.
Unfortunatly this project is quity poor in features like:
- email notification
- duplicate handling
- user handling
- attachements (pictures, links, etc...)
- search
- filters
- reports, charts  statistics
etc.

Bug trackers like Bugzilla can cope with these requirements a lot
better.

What do you think about a migration of OpenStreetBugs to Bugzilla?

Nevertheless OpenStreetBugs has a also some pros:
- simplicity
- integration in a slippy map and JOSM

But I think it would'nt be hard to implement these pros to Bugzilla.

I've already put a installation of Bugzilla to my Server
(http://bugs.griesm.de) and I've done some testing around.
Bugzilla is coded in perl. I've some basic perl skills. But I'm afraid
thats not enough.
Perhaps we can some more expierenced perl codes here in the community?

A migration of the other bug trackers (http://trac.openstreetmap.org) to
Bugzilla would ensure that we have projectwide unique Bug IDs.

Small an new projects without a bug tracker could use this installation.
I think this would lead us to a faster developement cyclus...

It's just imagination..
What do you think about it?

greetings from Germany,

Steffen Vogel





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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

On 26/11/2008 16:56, Steffen Vogel wrote:
 As a user and mapper of OpenStreetMap, I often use OpenStreetBugs.
 Unfortunatly this project is quity poor in features like:
 - email notification
 - duplicate handling
 - user handling
 - attachements (pictures, links, etc...)
 - search
 - filters
 - reports, charts  statistics
 etc.
 
 Bug trackers like Bugzilla can cope with these requirements a lot
 better.
 
 What do you think about a migration of OpenStreetBugs to Bugzilla?
 
 Nevertheless OpenStreetBugs has a also some pros:
 - simplicity
 - integration in a slippy map and JOSM
 
 But I think it would'nt be hard to implement these pros to Bugzilla.
 
 I've already put a installation of Bugzilla to my Server
 (http://bugs.griesm.de) and I've done some testing around.
 Bugzilla is coded in perl. I've some basic perl skills. But I'm afraid
 thats not enough.
 Perhaps we can some more expierenced perl codes here in the community?
 
 A migration of the other bug trackers (http://trac.openstreetmap.org) to
 Bugzilla would ensure that we have projectwide unique Bug IDs.
 
 Small an new projects without a bug tracker could use this installation.
 I think this would lead us to a faster developement cyclus...
 
 It's just imagination..
 What do you think about it?

This is a very interesting insight. The ability to record, track status 
and so on of map problems in the same way as tried and tested bug 
systems seems like an excellent one IMO.

I think the key thing is to retain the ease of use (no registration, 
point at map etc) to report problems, but the consumers of those reports 
can easily cope with a proper change control system.

So I wonder whether the easy way to do this would be for OSB or a 
similar front end to submit a report to a tracking system behind the 
scenes. Most such systems allow for custom fields, so we could also have 
lat/lon  and the front end could query the tracking system to display 
live data.

Just a thought - there isn't already a change tracking system for 
geographical data out there is there, or an add on or plugin for an 
existing system?

David



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Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features

2008-11-26 Thread Nic Roets

Andy, this is a very good summary of the choices we face.

As long as important pages on our wiki contain statements like However,
there is no guarantee that a tag listed here will be rendered ..., the
public will regard us as amateur map makers. Contrast this with our
professional quality rendering and the mind boggling detail stored in our
database.

So we need to identify members capable and willing of making tough decisions
and then give them the necessary support. If no one has distinguished him /
herself at the various mapping parties / meetings, we should look for well
written pages on the wiki and promote the individuals involved.

Alternatively we can choose people who have done a lot of tagging. For
example Milenko, beej71, wildMan, kiya, Skywave, devrise, blars, GercoKees,
uboot, MichaelCollinson, andrewpmk, ewedistrict, beldin, Alban,  katpatuka,
ulfl, mackerski dkt or Sven Anders.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Sebastian Hohmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

   it has been voted on and should thus stay on
  Map Features.

 Therein lies the problem, in my opinion, specifically with the thus.
 Things could be voted on, but not put onto the Map Features page,
 perhaps - otherwise we'll end up needed an edited highlights of map
 features - given we're going to map *everything* on the planet, it's
 becoming increasingly less feasible to have everything documented on
 the one page, both technically and editorially. And isn't multiple
 pages one of the joys of a wiki? A grey-scale of importance and/or
 acceptance?

  Or should just everyone edit the wiki without regard for
  others.

 Therein lies the strawman. It's not a binary choice between everyone
 having an equal vote (no matter their level of experience, talent or
 other meritocratic traits) and individual anarchism. There's other
 possibilities that are demonstrated in other parts of the project,
 especially amongst the developers, mapping party organisers and
 sysadmins[1], but aren't used on the tagging discussions on the wiki.
 More thought should be put into the alternatives available - maybe by
 perusing the sidebar at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochlocracy for
 some ideas.

 But since it's a complex subject, and neither the wiki nor the mailing
 list promote any better form of discourse than a simple tit-for-tat
 refuting of points taken out of context (c.f. all the email I ever
 send, which are often unhelpful and ill-thought out), and often create
 a binary oversimplication of complex nuanced subjects, I unfortunately
 hold out little hope of constructive dialogue.

 Cheers,
 Andy

 [1] Meritocracy, do-ocracy and benevolent dictatorship, perhaps.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Ian Dees

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:20 AM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:


 Just a thought - there isn't already a change tracking system for
 geographical data out there is there, or an add on or plugin for an
 existing system?


No, I don't think there's ever been a use case for what we're talking about
before.

I would think it would relatively trivial to add a Location value to any
of the open source bug tracking systems.

The hard part might be adapting the bug tracking system to allow anyone to
use it with the same (low) amount of work needed to contribute with the
current OSB set up. Showing the user a signup page for the bug tracking
system is impractical. Only the people who care about fixing the bugs should
see those bits of the interface.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Marc Schütz

Am Mittwoch 26 November 2008 17:56:15 schrieb Steffen Vogel:
 As a user and mapper of OpenStreetMap, I often use OpenStreetBugs.
 Unfortunatly this project is quity poor in features like:
 - email notification
 - duplicate handling
 - user handling
 - attachements (pictures, links, etc...)
 - search
 - filters
 - reports, charts  statistics
 etc.

 Bug trackers like Bugzilla can cope with these requirements a lot
 better.

 What do you think about a migration of OpenStreetBugs to Bugzilla?

 Nevertheless OpenStreetBugs has a also some pros:
 - simplicity
 - integration in a slippy map and JOSM

 But I think it would'nt be hard to implement these pros to Bugzilla.


Bugzilla as a backend would certainly be nice, but as a frontend it is 
obviously inappropriate. I don't know whether Bugzilla supports alternate 
frontends; if so, it could be worthwhile building one that fits our needs.

IMO the most important advantage of OSB is its ease of use: there's no login 
required, you don't need to categorize your bug report etc. I think these 
features are important to keep in any new bug tracker we are going to use.

 I've already put a installation of Bugzilla to my Server
 (http://bugs.griesm.de) and I've done some testing around.
 Bugzilla is coded in perl. I've some basic perl skills. But I'm afraid
 thats not enough.
 Perhaps we can some more expierenced perl codes here in the community?

 A migration of the other bug trackers (http://trac.openstreetmap.org) to
 Bugzilla would ensure that we have projectwide unique Bug IDs.


Here I disagree: OSB is specifically targeted at users and mappers, not at 
developers. I think it's quite okay that we have separate bug trackers for 
these.

 Small an new projects without a bug tracker could use this installation.
 I think this would lead us to a faster developement cyclus...


That's already possible with our Trac as it is, right?

Regards, Marc



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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

On 26/11/2008 17:27, Ian Dees wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:20 AM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 Just a thought - there isn't already a change tracking system for
 geographical data out there is there, or an add on or plugin for an
 existing system?
 
 
 No, I don't think there's ever been a use case for what we're talking 
 about before.
 
 I would think it would relatively trivial to add a Location value to 
 any of the open source bug tracking systems.
 
 The hard part might be adapting the bug tracking system to allow anyone 
 to use it with the same (low) amount of work needed to contribute with 
 the current OSB set up. Showing the user a signup page for the bug 
 tracking system is impractical. Only the people who care about fixing 
 the bugs should see those bits of the interface.

Well the map could be a front end, which behaves as a registered user, 
so it just submits the same form that it would had it been typed in 
directly to submit a new issue. Marking the map with exsiting issues 
would be the bigger problem I think - especially if the number of 
reports gets large.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

Marc Schütz schrieb:
 Am Mittwoch 26 November 2008 17:56:15 schrieb Steffen Vogel:
   
 As a user and mapper of OpenStreetMap, I often use OpenStreetBugs.
 Unfortunatly this project is quity poor in features like:
 - email notification
 - duplicate handling
 - user handling
 - attachements (pictures, links, etc...)
 - search
 - filters
 - reports, charts  statistics
 etc.

 Bug trackers like Bugzilla can cope with these requirements a lot
 better.

 What do you think about a migration of OpenStreetBugs to Bugzilla?

 Nevertheless OpenStreetBugs has a also some pros:
 - simplicity
 - integration in a slippy map and JOSM

 But I think it would'nt be hard to implement these pros to Bugzilla.

 

 Bugzilla as a backend would certainly be nice, but as a frontend it is 
 obviously inappropriate. I don't know whether Bugzilla supports alternate 
 frontends; if so, it could be worthwhile building one that fits our needs.

 IMO the most important advantage of OSB is its ease of use: there's no login 
 required, you don't need to categorize your bug report etc. I think these 
 features are important to keep in any new bug tracker we are going to use.
   
+1
   
 I've already put a installation of Bugzilla to my Server
 (http://bugs.griesm.de) and I've done some testing around.
 Bugzilla is coded in perl. I've some basic perl skills. But I'm afraid
 thats not enough.
 Perhaps we can some more expierenced perl codes here in the community?

 A migration of the other bug trackers (http://trac.openstreetmap.org) to
 Bugzilla would ensure that we have projectwide unique Bug IDs.

 

 Here I disagree: OSB is specifically targeted at users and mappers, not at 
 developers. I think it's quite okay that we have separate bug trackers for 
 these.
   
+1
   
 Small an new projects without a bug tracker could use this installation.
 I think this would lead us to a faster developement cyclus...

 

 That's already possible with our Trac as it is, right?
   
I agree here too.

Jonas


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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Karl Newman

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:38 AM, John07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Marc Schütz schrieb:
  Am Mittwoch 26 November 2008 17:56:15 schrieb Steffen Vogel:
 
  As a user and mapper of OpenStreetMap, I often use OpenStreetBugs.
  Unfortunatly this project is quity poor in features like:
  - email notification
  - duplicate handling
  - user handling
  - attachements (pictures, links, etc...)
  - search
  - filters
  - reports, charts  statistics
  etc.
 
  Bug trackers like Bugzilla can cope with these requirements a lot
  better.
 
  What do you think about a migration of OpenStreetBugs to Bugzilla?
 
  Nevertheless OpenStreetBugs has a also some pros:
  - simplicity
  - integration in a slippy map and JOSM
 
  But I think it would'nt be hard to implement these pros to Bugzilla.
 
 
 
  Bugzilla as a backend would certainly be nice, but as a frontend it is
  obviously inappropriate. I don't know whether Bugzilla supports alternate
  frontends; if so, it could be worthwhile building one that fits our
 needs.
 
  IMO the most important advantage of OSB is its ease of use: there's no
 login
  required, you don't need to categorize your bug report etc. I think these
  features are important to keep in any new bug tracker we are going to
 use.
 
 +1


If it's tying in to a proper bug management system, classification could be
a powerful addition. This classification could be done by bug wranglers
based on the description typed by the reporter. So, I agree, the ease of use
should be kept, but if desired, there could be an alternate Advanced form
where the reporter could add the classification or other details (maybe a
spot to optionally add their email address to track the bug status?).

Karl
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

Karl Newman schrieb:
 On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:38 AM, John07 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Marc Schütz schrieb:
  Am Mittwoch 26 November 2008 17:56:15 schrieb Steffen Vogel:
 
  As a user and mapper of OpenStreetMap, I often use OpenStreetBugs.
  Unfortunatly this project is quity poor in features like:
  - email notification
  - duplicate handling
  - user handling
  - attachements (pictures, links, etc...)
  - search
  - filters
  - reports, charts  statistics
  etc.
 
  Bug trackers like Bugzilla can cope with these requirements a lot
  better.
 
  What do you think about a migration of OpenStreetBugs to Bugzilla?
 
  Nevertheless OpenStreetBugs has a also some pros:
  - simplicity
  - integration in a slippy map and JOSM
 
  But I think it would'nt be hard to implement these pros to
 Bugzilla.
 
 
 
  Bugzilla as a backend would certainly be nice, but as a frontend
 it is
  obviously inappropriate. I don't know whether Bugzilla supports
 alternate
  frontends; if so, it could be worthwhile building one that fits
 our needs.
 
  IMO the most important advantage of OSB is its ease of use:
 there's no login
  required, you don't need to categorize your bug report etc. I
 think these
  features are important to keep in any new bug tracker we are
 going to use.
 
 +1


 If it's tying in to a proper bug management system, classification 
 could be a powerful addition. This classification could be done by bug 
 wranglers based on the description typed by the reporter. So, I agree, 
 the ease of use should be kept, but if desired, there could be an 
 alternate Advanced form where the reporter could add the 
 classification or other details (maybe a spot to optionally add their 
 email address to track the bug status?).
+1 :-)
Easy to use for the normal people and an advanced button for the 
osm-people.

Jonas


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Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features


 Alternatively we can choose people who have done a lot of tagging. For
 example Milenko, beej71, wildMan, kiya, Skywave, devrise, blars, GercoKees,
 uboot, MichaelCollinson, andrewpmk, ewedistrict, beldin, Alban,  katpatuka,
 ulfl, mackerski dkt or Sven Anders.

I had a similar idea, democratie has, imho, the general dis-advantage of 
giving a vote power to people who are not aware of things they are voting 
for.

What about giving the voting power to people that actualy map things they 
know about ?

... And/or what about elections in the osm word, for a few dozen deputies that 
will be renewed every X days, that discuss between then ?


 
--
sly
sylvain letuffe

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Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts about Map Features and Maplint

 could it be done in such
 a way that all the different options are checked by the Maplint validation

Scanning a wiki content is IMHO a very bad idea and was probably the poor's 
solution

I've dropped the idea somewhere on the wiki about maintaining an xml feature 
files, or in the db, or in whatever, but computer parsable 

--
sly
sylvain letuffe

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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Mikel Maron

I'd suggest bypassing Trac and looking into RedMine http://www.redmine.org/

Trac is wonderful, but convoluted. RedMine is built in Rails and quite easy to 
modify.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Christoph Böhme

Hi!

Steffen Vogel [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:

 As a user and mapper of OpenStreetMap, I often use OpenStreetBugs.
 Unfortunatly this project is quity poor in features like:
 - email notification
 - duplicate handling
 - user handling
 - attachements (pictures, links, etc...)
 - search
 - filters
 - reports, charts  statistics
 etc.

I never thought about most of these features but they would be very
handy, indeed. I am hoping to have things like a basic classification
(POI bug, street-bug, power-line bug, etc) and the ability to close a
bug without removing it.

 Bug trackers like Bugzilla can cope with these requirements a lot
 better.
 
 What do you think about a migration of OpenStreetBugs to Bugzilla?

My experiences as a bug reporter with Bugzilla were not very positive
so far. In my view the user interface is very confusing and does not
seem to be well thought-out from a user's perspective. Based on these
experiences I personally would not use Bugzilla as a bugtracker for any
project.

However, I like your idea of reusing some existing software but we
also should make sure that we are reusing some software that is actually
suited for what we want to do. What I mean is: The main user interface
for map bugtracker is probably very different from a software
bugtracker. Also, while having much in common, I think, a map bug is
usually much simpler than a software bug and might also require a
slightly different way of handling it. At the moment I am not sure if
this can be represented naturally with a software bugtracker without
ending up with a software that is neither fish nor fowl and difficult
to maintain. 

 A migration of the other bug trackers (http://trac.openstreetmap.org)
 to Bugzilla would ensure that we have projectwide unique Bug IDs.

Having unique bug ids would be nice to have but I do not think it is
very important. I am not even sure if it would be possible with
Bugzilla at all because a map bug description will probably contain a
different set of fields than a software bug (e.g. a map bug would not
contain operating system fields).
And I also have to admit that I prefer the trac bug tracker over
bugzilla (again from a bug reporter perspective).

Cheers,
Christoph

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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering barangays for the Philippines

2008-11-26 Thread Bob Jonkman

Sounds like a classic need for another layer of indirection: 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1925 section 6

Maning Sambale wrote:

Of course the correct way would be to tag them as place=barangay and we
will do so from now on.  Can we request the renderers to render them the
same as place=village?


Erik Johansson wrote:

 pat=patuqutaujuq == natural=snow
 pat=patuqun == natural=snow
 pat=patpat == natural=snow


This can be solved with an equivalence table at the renderer, eg:

{place,plaats,ilagay}={village,barangay,dorpje} : render(brown)
{natural,pat}={snow,patuquaujuq,patuqun,patpat} : render(white)

This lets us keep the richness and sublety of all the tags and values in the 
database.  As new tags or values are introduced it only requires updates to the 
equivalence table, not the rendering engine or the editors.

The only (possible) constraint is the additional processing needed by the 
lookups, 
and the additional space required by the tables, but in another 18 months 
processing 
power will have doubled and the cost of disk space halved :-)

--Bob.


-- -- -- --
Bob Jonkman [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://sobac.com/sobac/
SOBAC Microcomputer Services  Voice: +1-519-669-0388
6 James Street, Elmira ON  Canada  N3B 1L5  Cel: +1-519-635-9413
Software   ---   Office  Business Automation   ---   Consulting



On 26 Nov 2008 at 1:39, Erik Johansson wrote:

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:  Erik Johansson wrote:   pat=patuqutaujuq == natural=snow
 pat=patuqun == natural=snow  pat=patpat == natural=snow   Ah,
the old story about the various Inuit names for snow, isn't it.

:-)

Sure it's a wonderful urban myth, but do you know how many different
words for snow the Australian newspapers uses. Even though people try
hard to dispell that myth I'm pretty sure there is at least one of
those words for snow that fit this example from Chinese
早上好，表姐！ which is Good morning, my
female-cousin-on-maternal-or-paternal-aunt's-side-elder-than-myself[1
].

You Loose Information by doing bad Translation.


[1]http://www.21jfs.com/xykw/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=600
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3830521.stm




 How about

 snow,slush,sleet, blizzard, drift, white-out, flurry, powder,
 dusting, hardpack, crust

For me most snow would then have to be natural=snow, and I'm very
passionate about snow. But I didn't grow up thinking about snow in
English did I. This is about making maps not creating english tags for
maps.

/Erik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features

2008-11-26 Thread Matthias Julius

sylvain letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Alternatively we can choose people who have done a lot of tagging. For
 example Milenko, beej71, wildMan, kiya, Skywave, devrise, blars, GercoKees,
 uboot, MichaelCollinson, andrewpmk, ewedistrict, beldin, Alban,  katpatuka,
 ulfl, mackerski dkt or Sven Anders.

 I had a similar idea, democratie has, imho, the general dis-advantage of 
 giving a vote power to people who are not aware of things they are voting 
 for.

 What about giving the voting power to people that actualy map things they 
 know about ?

All those people have voting power already.  If they all would use it
the votes would already be much more representative than they are now.

In the end, those knowledgable people need to want that voting power
for this to work.  I'm afraid many people have other interests besides
debating about the merits of a certain tag (like mapping?).  After
all, people only start to worry about how to tag post boxes when they
start to map post boxes.


 ... And/or what about elections in the osm word, for a few dozen deputies 
 that 
 will be renewed every X days, that discuss between then ?

Again, I don't think anybody will start voting because you gave him
explicit voting power.

I repeat myself here: Keep voting as it is now, but, instead of adding
that stuff to Map Features add it to Approved Features and let it
mature there and become established.  If after a certain time (maybe 6
month) a feature has become accepted by mappers it can migrate to Map
Features.

And the number of occurences in planet.osm is certainly not a
sufficient criteria for this.  More significant is probably the number
of mappers that have used it and the geographic distribution.

Matthias

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[OSM-talk] osm relief file for France

2008-11-26 Thread Frédéric Bonifas

Hi,

I am regularly generating a garmin map for France (
http://fredericbonifas.free.fr/osm/garmin.html ).
I would like to build one with relief. I works well for little areas
but I am experiencing some problems to generate the relief map for the
whole France.
Could someone who successfully produce big relief maps generate a .img
file, containing only the reliefs, with this polygon :
http://download.cloudmade.com/europe/france/france.poly ?

Thanks a lot in advance

Frédéric

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Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts about Map Features and Maplint

2008-11-26 Thread Matthias Julius

sylvain letuffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 could it be done in such
 a way that all the different options are checked by the Maplint validation

 Scanning a wiki content is IMHO a very bad idea and was probably the poor's 
 solution

 I've dropped the idea somewhere on the wiki about maintaining an xml feature 
 files, or in the db, or in whatever, but computer parsable 

... from which Map Features could be auto-generated because we don't
want to maintain the information in two places.

This would have the added benefit of a more stable Map Features as
probably fewer people would go through the pains of figuring out how
to edit it. ;-)

Matthias

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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering barangays for the Philippines

2008-11-26 Thread Bob Jonkman

On 26 Nov 2008 at 21:03, David Earl wrote:

On 26/11/2008 20:47, Bob Jonkman wrote:
 This can be solved with an equivalence table at the renderer, eg:
 
 {place,plaats,ilagay}={village,barangay,dorpje} : render(brown)
 {natural,pat}={snow,patuquaujuq,patuqun,patpat} : render(white)
 [...]

Yes, but *every* renderer - nay, *every* consumer everywhere -
editors, renderers, search engines, route finders, each of which must
all know about all the tag variants everyone uses.

[...]

Surely it must be better to centralise handling of this

Absolutely.  The equivalence table is stored whereever the mapping database is 
stored. As the database (or a portion) is downloaded, so is the relevant 
portion of 
the equivalence table. 

The beauty is that the existing tags and values continue to exist as they are 
now, 
so existing applications continue to work as they always have.  New 
applications 
that incorporate the equivalence table lookups can make use of the extra 
information 
as they see fit.

so that consumers only have to know either about one canonical form,

But there isn't one canonical form.  That's the problem.

or can get the data out in their language (e.g. for editing it) rather
than necessarily the form in which it was input. 

You can only get the data out in your own language if there is a translation 
mechanism somewhere.  Equivalence tables could provide the i18n portion 
(another 
use I hadn't anticipated); the renderer, search engine, route finder c. can 
provide 
the l10n part.

Why force re-invention of the wheel in every application that uses
OSM?

Because the needs of OSM users isn't being met by current data and 
applications.  
The issue is important enough to have sparked a 20+ message discussion over two 
days.

One way to centralise it might be to provide a central table consumers
can work from. But so much better to have it happen transparently.

Agreed on both points, which aren't mutually exclusive.



David




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Re: [OSM-talk] data issues in London?

2008-11-26 Thread Bernt M. Johnsen

E6 and E105 in Northern Norway has also got some nodes i Portugal now.
So, the the fix is still not complete.


2008/11/25 Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 2008/11/25 Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 2008/11/25 Peter Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I have just uploaded an image of Europe which shows that the main data
 problem emanates from London although there also seems to be a problem from
 Holland to the same point on the Portuguese coast?
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/peterito/3058044385/



 A user in Portugal has somehow managed to appropriate numerous node IDs.
 He's effectively moved them from where ever they were, to Portugal.

 I've contacted him to ask how it might have happened.
 He seems to have been using merkaartor, but whether it has anything to
 do with it, I don't know.

 I'm working on a revert script to tidy this up.

 Dave


 This should now be fixed. I reverted 420 nodes back to their London locations.

 Moral of the story is this:

 Never find a random .osm file, edit some nodes in it, then upload the
 changes to the OSM server.
 A mess you will cause. :-)

 Dave

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Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features

2008-11-26 Thread Alex Mauer

Pieren wrote:
 I would also show the fact that it was approved by
 keeping the entry in the Approved Features with a note that strong
 oppositions and open issues have to be fixed before it goes to the
 Map Features.

I agree that would be appropriate if there were any strong oppositions
besides chriscf saying I don't like it.

Reading the talk page, there are the following:

smoothness and surface: Addressed by way of explanation: any mentioned
surface types are examples, not criteria.  Furthermore, they're no
longer used in favor of describing what vehicles can use it.

subjective: This is really about being vague.  Addressed, in that
there are clear criteria for how smoothness should be determined.

catastrophic: The term catastrophic doesn't fit.  Addressed by using
a different term.

impassable: how can a way be impassable -- if it's impassable, it's
not a way.  Addressed by noting that smoothness only applies to wheeled
vehicles.  Not all ways are meant to be used by wheeled vehicles.

laterally varying smoothness.  This one was not addressed, but is IMO
a very minor one, as OSM does not currently have any general way of
dealing with anything that differs between left and right on a way.

elaborate on 4wd: Addressed by using more correct term.

The rest are not seriously objections.  There are:
...various alternate proposals...some vehicles missing from the
table...a suggestion to break it up into a bunch of different keys ...
discussion of default values...discussion of the deprecation of another tag.

So yeah.  Only one unaddressed objection, and that one is very minor.
If I missed something, I'd love to be pointed at it.

If not, it's my opinion that the smoothness tag should stay in map
features (assuming that map features is to remain the place for
recommended tags to be listed)

On the topic of whether that's a good idea and/or fixing the size of map
features, I think the thing to do would be to only list keys on map
features.  Values should be documented on the Key:* pages.

-Alex Mauer hawke


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Re: [OSM-talk] data issues in London?

2008-11-26 Thread Dave Stubbs

2008/11/26 Bernt M. Johnsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Applies also to E4 in Sweden close to Swedish/Finnish border. Is this
 dealt with in a systematic way?



I reverted all edits made by the user concerned on the 24th, where the
edit moved a node more than 2 degrees.

What seems to have happened here is that the user has subsequently
made more bad edits at 5pm ish this evening.
I'll contact him again.
And I'll revert his edits again.

Dave

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Re: [OSM-talk] data issues in London?

2008-11-26 Thread Bernt M. Johnsen

Also node 123566 connected to some road in germany

2008/11/26 Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 2008/11/26 Bernt M. Johnsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Applies also to E4 in Sweden close to Swedish/Finnish border. Is this
 dealt with in a systematic way?



 I reverted all edits made by the user concerned on the 24th, where the
 edit moved a node more than 2 degrees.

 What seems to have happened here is that the user has subsequently
 made more bad edits at 5pm ish this evening.
 I'll contact him again.
 And I'll revert his edits again.

 Dave




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Re: [OSM-talk] data issues in London?

2008-11-26 Thread Dave Stubbs

2008/11/26 Bernt M. Johnsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Also node 123566 connected to some road in germany


Yes, he edited over 1400 nodes.
Many of these will be bad edits.

I've found these from the hourly changeset and will revert them as
long as no one else edits them in the meantime.

Dave

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[OSM-legal-talk] FW: [OpenStreemap] Legal question

2008-11-26 Thread Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)

Forwarded to legal-talk

-Original Message-
From: Olivier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 25 November 2008 8:14 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OpenStreemap] Legal question

Hello,

I would like to use an extract of the Openstreet map on my e-commerce
website to point where  my shops are in town.
Could you tell me, what kind of legal mention would I have to put  on the
map?

Yours sincerely,
Minh

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.10/1810 - Release Date: 24/11/2008
2:36 PM

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Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts about Map Features and Maplint

 ... from which Map Features could be auto-generated because we
 don't
 want to maintain the information in two places.

I agree entirely. Maintaining the information in two places would be
OTT (over the top, in case this is a UK specific phrase: too much,
unnecessary, etc). 

But then you'd have complaints on the wiki that those with svn
accounts aren't adding all the new features. 

There is no ideal solution.

I think the choices are that either you maintain the key (as in
important, rather than key related, though there may be overlap)
pages on the wiki in a format which is easily parsable, or you have
a validation XML file which keeps itself distinct from the wiki and
is maintained separately.

I personally feel that having a perl script which generates
validation tests based on the wiki is probably better than a wiki
which relies on other people to replicate those suggestions they
think are valid into the validation tests.

Having said that I've still got on my to-do list some way of
defining a wiki page to allow numeric keys with optional units
types. This is partly but not solely based on the maxspeed=number
assuming kph existing entry. This isn't the case in reality as
people map what is there (and some think to add the mph, or knots,
or whatever unit). This was compounded by me driving on the A120 out
of Harwich the other day where there are many signs telling European
drivers the km/h equivalent of the mph posted limits which don't
agree with those suggested in our wiki - they round to 5km/h for
example and I was driving to quick to note whether that was always
nearest, or always down, or what. 

Ed



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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering barangays for the Philippines

On 26/11/2008 22:04, Bob Jonkman wrote:
 On 26 Nov 2008 at 21:03, David Earl wrote:
 
 On 26/11/2008 20:47, Bob Jonkman wrote:
 This can be solved with an equivalence table at the renderer, eg:

 {place,plaats,ilagay}={village,barangay,dorpje} : render(brown)
 {natural,pat}={snow,patuquaujuq,patuqun,patpat} : render(white)
 [...]
 Yes, but *every* renderer - nay, *every* consumer everywhere -
 editors, renderers, search engines, route finders, each of which must
 all know about all the tag variants everyone uses.
 
 [...]
 
 Surely it must be better to centralise handling of this
 
 Absolutely.  The equivalence table is stored whereever the mapping database 
 is 
 stored. As the database (or a portion) is downloaded, so is the relevant 
 portion of 
 the equivalence table. 
 
 The beauty is that the existing tags and values continue to exist as they are 
 now, 
 so existing applications continue to work as they always have.  New 
 applications 
 that incorporate the equivalence table lookups can make use of the extra 
 information 
 as they see fit.
 
 so that consumers only have to know either about one canonical form,
 
 But there isn't one canonical form.  That's the problem.
 
 or can get the data out in their language (e.g. for editing it) rather
 than necessarily the form in which it was input. 
 
 You can only get the data out in your own language if there is a translation 
 mechanism somewhere.  Equivalence tables could provide the i18n portion 
 (another 
 use I hadn't anticipated); the renderer, search engine, route finder c. can 
 provide 
 the l10n part.
 
 Why force re-invention of the wheel in every application that uses
 OSM?
 
 Because the needs of OSM users isn't being met by current data and 
 applications.  
 The issue is important enough to have sparked a 20+ message discussion over 
 two 
 days.
 
 One way to centralise it might be to provide a central table consumers
 can work from. But so much better to have it happen transparently.
 
 Agreed on both points, which aren't mutually exclusive.

OK, so you are happy to have the translation table centrally, but not 
the algorithm which applies it. I still don't really see why you want to 
make each application implement its own version of the algorithm when it 
could so simply be done as the data passes into and out of the database.

Applications need change hardly at all this way, whereas your way all 
renderers have to understand (via a table and a homegrown algorithm) 
what each of the equivalent tags mean, otherwise the maps don't render 
correctly.

Here's an example of how I'm seeing it working: User T is Thai so sets 
JOSM to work in Thai (I'm not considering UIs here, just the data). JOSM 
tells the API that's what the language is when it uploads or downloads. 
So T's download automatically sees what I know as a village as 
thai-for-village. N, the Norwegian visitor to Bangkok entered that 
village the previous day in norwegian-for-village having told Potlatch 
she was working in Norwegian. T decides it is really a town, so changes 
it to town-in-thai and uploads it. N downloads it the following day and 
sees town-in-norwegian. Mapnik also sees it and renders town-as-a-symbol.

All that happens with the only change to the API being an indication of 
what language you want to communicate in. You don't care how it is 
stored (it could store the source data and language codes or translate 
it on the fly - but that's all abstracted away, you don't care it is 
hidden behind the API).

(Of course the API would need to include a protocol for changing the table.)

This reduces the impact across all the software, doesn't mean you have 
to download every combination of every tag with each download, and can 
be implemented more efficiently as the API only has to consider the one 
language requested by the user, not all combinations.

I just don't understand why you want to distribute this common code (or 
more likely subtly different code!) and data around all the applications 
when it can be done just once. The effect is identical in the end - when 
all applications implement the table handling in your case - whereas 
doing it centrally all applications continue to work and if they make a 
tiny change to allow users to specify which language automatically get 
localised tags.

David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts about Map Features and Maplint

On 26/11/2008 23:09, Ed Loach wrote:
 ... from which Map Features could be auto-generated because we
 don't
 want to maintain the information in two places.
 
 I agree entirely. Maintaining the information in two places would be
 OTT (over the top, in case this is a UK specific phrase: too much,
 unnecessary, etc). 
 
 But then you'd have complaints on the wiki that those with svn
 accounts aren't adding all the new features. 

I'm going to muddy waters between two threads that are going on here.

The parallel topic Rendering barangays for the Philippines is talking 
about localisation of tags and their enumerated values. Even though 
there's no agreement about where this would be done, there does seem to 
be some agreement from some of the contributors that there would need to 
be a table storing tag translations somewhere. (Not to say you can't 
have tags that aren't in the table).

If such a table existed, it could be the source for the documentation - 
in multiple languages - as well as the localisations. And it could be a 
formal part of the API to update it, so you could in principle introduce 
new tags (with descriptions), as well as translations for existing tags, 
through the API via an editor (either one built for the purpose, or 
through JOSM/Potlatch/whatever, or both). So everybody's happy - 
everyone can still change the documentation (and in doing so they're 
also changing the API), and we have a way of getting a structured 
version of the tags information and a controlled way of managing it.

Incidentally, this could also give us a halfway house between the 
pragmatists and the perfectionists. It could enforce what tags and 
values are allowed, which avoids the stupid spelling mistakes, while not 
restricting what tags are allowed because anyone can explicitly add to 
the set of permitted tags using whatever tools we might develop for 
this. Everyone can still do what they want (in their own language), but 
are protected against their own mistakes. And the documentation matches 
reality.

David


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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Tom Hughes

Mikel Maron wrote:
 I'd suggest bypassing Trac and looking into RedMine http://www.redmine.org/
 
 Trac is wonderful, but convoluted. RedMine is built in Rails and quite 
 easy to modify.

Trac has the massive advantage that we're already using it however...

Being built on rails is no particular reason to favour something at all 
really - quite the opposite in many ways.

Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts about Map Features and Maplint

 I'm going to muddy waters between two threads that are going on here.
You are more welcome to do so since your proposition seams a rather very good 
one.

 formal part of the API to update it, so you could in principle introduce
 new tags (with descriptions), as well as translations for existing tags,
 through the API via an editor (either one built for the purpose, or
 through JOSM/Potlatch/whatever, or both).
That would be, by far the BEST way to go imho, what's best to describe the 
content of a database than a table of the database itself ?

But this sounds like a major proposal that has to be carefuly though of.
( I have no clues to who will make the code)
But I have right now many fears that comes to my mind. By order of magnitude :

1) Won't that end in a way to enforce possible tags and makes it impossible to 
tag my own ?

2) won't that remove my freedom from proposing new tags ?

3) won't that end in an horrible mess of thousand of duplicate tags ?

4) won't that look rather like the output of tagwatch ?

If those can be adressed correctly I am much much in favor of that, than every 
editors having their presets, having maplint parsing a wiki page, having a 
too big map features page.

How do we start to talk about it ? are some devs on the problem ? is this a 
virtual proposition for now ?

--
sly
sylvain letuffe

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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

Hi,

Tom Hughes wrote:
 Being built on rails is no particular reason to favour something at all 
 really - quite the opposite in many ways.

Come on, how can you be critical of a project that single-handedly 
implements an issue tracker, a wiki, and even forums! It's probably just 
a few more lines of rails code and it also has a geo database, then 
we'll just drop everything we have and move over... Oh wait. It doesn't 
implement its own version of E-Mail. Too bad ;-)

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts about Map Features and Maplint

On 27/11/2008 00:18, sylvain letuffe wrote:
 I'm going to muddy waters between two threads that are going on here.
 You are more welcome to do so since your proposition seams a rather very good 
 one.
 
 formal part of the API to update it, so you could in principle introduce
 new tags (with descriptions), as well as translations for existing tags,
 through the API via an editor (either one built for the purpose, or
 through JOSM/Potlatch/whatever, or both).
 That would be, by far the BEST way to go imho, what's best to describe the 
 content of a database than a table of the database itself ?
 
 But this sounds like a major proposal that has to be carefuly though of.
 ( I have no clues to who will make the code)
 But I have right now many fears that comes to my mind. By order of magnitude :


I think I need to write something down that is more concrete than the 
mail threads, so you can all see how it would work.

 1) Won't that end in a way to enforce possible tags and makes it impossible 
 to 
 tag my own ?

Not as I am suggesting it. What would be required is that you don't 
_casually_ introduce a new tag - you make a deliberate decision, and 
provide a small amount of info about the tag, including a short 
description in at least your own language. (In principle an editor could 
sidestep this by implementing something which says if tag not found add 
it with an empty description, but that wouldn't be helpful).

 2) won't that remove my freedom from proposing new tags ?

Anyone can propose anything anywhere :-). And as it doesn't stop you 
implementing it, you are no worse off than now (unless you regard being 
asked to be a bit more informative when you do choose to add a new tag 
as being worse off - personally I think it makes you better off as the 
tag has more chance of being widely adopted if others like it, because 
editors can, in pricniple, get to know about it automatically in their 
presets and provide help for it, and because people then see it they 
would start to offer localisations for it)

 3) won't that end in an horrible mess of thousand of duplicate tags ?

Not the way I was proposing it - see the other thread. 
(http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-November/031769.html 
- especially my reply at the end)

I was specifically thinking it should be upward compatible and not stop 
anyone from doing anything they can already do (though it might slightly 
change the way you do it, and require you to make an extra step when you 
want to introduce a new tag, but I'd expect this to happen as part of 
the existing editing - JOSM could prompt you for the info, for example)

 4) won't that look rather like the output of tagwatch ?

Yes, except less anarchic.

 If those can be adressed correctly I am much much in favor of that, than 
 every 
 editors having their presets, having maplint parsing a wiki page, having a 
 too big map features page.
 
 How do we start to talk about it ? are some devs on the problem ? is this a 
 virtual proposition for now ?

I've not done any of the API programming, but I've certainly read the 
code and contributed to development in JOSM and the namefinder, so I 
think I can qualify as a dev (pretty please). I know what would need 
doing and where, and could in principle write it. But I don't recall any 
of the people who've been doing API0.6 joining in the discussion so far.

But yes it is only something that is crystallizing in my mind after the 
discussions of the last couple of days.

I think the next step is for me to write it up somewhat more formally, 
which I'll do in the next few days.

David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts about Map Features and Maplint

David,

 I think I need to write something down that is more concrete than the 
 mail threads, so you can all see how it would work.

The idea of a machine-readable master database of tags from which 
everything else would then be generated has been floated on these lists 
a hundred times. It appeals to computer people of course as they abhor 
anything where the authoritative documentation is in natural language.

Even though you are planning to have some sort of human-usable interface 
into your master database, I believe that there is a real danger of 
eroding the idea of free tagging, because even more than now (where some 
people already think you must first propose a new tag before being 
allowed to use it) people will assume that it is somehow inconsistent to 
use a tag without first filling in the 837 input fields of your new 
interface. (Help text for this feature in traditional Chinese ;-)

Also, we have a very strong subsidiary principle here at OSM, where 
the tool authors are the masters of the tags they support. Your approach 
will - whether you're planning for that or not - lead to calls for the 
master database to not only be a tagging master but also a rendering, 
verification, and processing master. People will assume that they can 
simply dump a Mapnik style description or an Osmarender snippet or a 
JOSM preset configuration snippet into the master database and this will 
magically be used by the tools, thus circumventing any editorial 
influence by the maintainers of those. Even more than now, people will 
be lead to think that once they've got their tag approved, it will 
automatically show up everywhere.

Which is, while technically possible, unlikely to happen if you ask me.

On another note, I would be very wary of mixing this with the actual API 
code. The API should remain a free-text world with no knowledge 
whatsoever about the tags. The API ist just a database with a very small 
number of practical extra features it doesn't, and should not, care for 
the values you put in. Call yours a documentation framework that lives 
in a world of its own, don't mix it with the API.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Unification of OpenStreetBugs an Trac

2008-11-26 Thread Simon Ward

On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 01:23:59AM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Come on, how can you be critical of a project that single-handedly 
 implements an issue tracker, a wiki, and even forums! It's probably just 
 a few more lines of rails code and it also has a geo database, then 
 we'll just drop everything we have and move over... Oh wait. It doesn't 
 implement its own version of E-Mail. Too bad ;-)

It could be the Emacs of the OSM world. :)

Simon
-- 
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
simple system that works.—John Gall


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[OSM-talk-nl] End-of-year party

2008-11-26 Thread Henk Hoff

OSM-vrienden,

Het heeft even wat op zich laten wachten, maar heb nu toch even de datum 
geprikt voor onze end-of-year party.

Het is zondag de 14e december geworden. Locatie: Amsterdam.
Mocht je je nog niet hebben opgegeven, schroom niet en wees welkom.

Houdt de wiki in de gaten voor de laatste ontwikkelingen:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Netherlands_Mapping_Parties_2008#OSM_end-of-year_party_-_Amsterdam

Gr,
Henk Hoff

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Re: [Talk-de] [JOSM] landuse=vineyard

2008-11-26 Thread Sven Anders

Am Mittwoch, 26. November 2008 08:47 schrieb Raphael Studer:
  Ein Eintrag im Trac reicht vollkommen. 6 Tage sind nicht gerade eine
  lange Wartezeit. Wenn nach 6 Wochen keiner die Änderung vorgenommen hat
  kannst Du vielleicht mal darauf hinweisen.
 
  Es gibt eine ganze Menge viel kritischerer Bugs, die schon viel länger
  offen sind.

 Gibts auch wer der das Trac etwas aufräumt? Da gibts auch teilweise
 veraltete Bugs die sicherlich schon lange korrigiert sind. Oder Bugs
 die einer alten Softwareversion zugeordnet sind, in der neuen jedoch
 auch noch auftreten.

Schön, Rapahael, das wir jetzt mit dir einen Freiwilligen mehr gefunden 
haben ;-)

Gruß
Sven

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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste Presseteam

2008-11-26 Thread Jan Tappenbeck

Hallo Sven,

kannst Du mir auch sagen worunter ich diese Group finde wenn ich als 
Newsreader, direkt aus dem TB, abfrage ?

Gruß Jan :-)

Sven Anders schrieb:
 Moin,
 wir haben eine neue Mailingliste für alle Presse-Interessierten OSMler.
 
 http://lists.openstreetmap.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/presseteam
 
 Bitte tragt Euch darauf ein, wenn Ihr an dem Thema Presse und 
 Öffentlichkeistarbeit Interesse habt.  
 
 Wenn Ihr etwas veröffentlichen wollt und dazu Hilfe wünscht, wendet Euch 
 gerne 
 an das Presseteam.
 
 Gerade bei dem Übergang zu FOSSGIS sollten wir überlegen, wie wir die Arbeit 
 zwischen (zum großen Teil unorganisierter) OSM-Community und FOSSGIS 
 Pressekomitie verteilen wollen, auch zur Diskussion darüber soll diese Liste 
 dienen.
 
 Eins möchte ich nochmals Klarstellen: Natürlich ist das OSM-Presseteam 
 keine 
 Zwangsveranstalltung. Wer immer mit der Presse so reden möchte, darf das auch 
 weiterhin tun.
 
 Gruß
 Sven


-- 


Freundliche Grüße

Jan Tappenbeck

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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich

Zitat Wolfgang Silbermayr:

 Einige von euch haben vielleicht mitbekommen, dass eine eigene
 Mailingliste für Österreich im Gespräch war. Diese ist jetzt verfügbar
 [0]. Ich freue mich auf viele österreich-spezifische Themen.
 [0] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at

Dann brauchen ja die Wiener nicht laenger via OpenStreeBugs
kommunizieren. ;-)

-- 
Michael


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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste Presseteam

Zitat Jan Tappenbeck:

 Sven Anders schrieb:
 Moin,
 wir haben eine neue Mailingliste für alle Presse-Interessierten OSMler.
 
 http://lists.openstreetmap.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/presseteam

 kannst Du mir auch sagen worunter ich diese Group finde wenn ich als
 Newsreader, direkt aus dem TB, abfrage ?

Um eine Mailingliste mit einem Newsreader lesen zu koennen, muss jemand die
Mailingliste zum Beispiel bei Gmane registrieren. 
Wenn du bis heute abend warten kannst, mache ich das gerne und gebe die
Adresse dann bekannt.

-- 
Michael


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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich

2008-11-26 Thread Wolfgang W. Wasserburger

das ist ja eher das Mittel der Wahl, wenn man weiß, daß wo ein Fehler ist, ohne 
die genaue Situation zu kennen, sonst kann man ja gleich den JOSM anwerfen ;-)

lg aus Wien

Wolfgang

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Buege
 Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:30 AM
 To: talk-de@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich
 
 
 Zitat Wolfgang Silbermayr:
 
  Einige von euch haben vielleicht mitbekommen, dass eine eigene
  Mailingliste für Österreich im Gespräch war. Diese ist jetzt verfügbar
  [0]. Ich freue mich auf viele österreich-spezifische Themen.
  [0] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
 
 Dann brauchen ja die Wiener nicht laenger via OpenStreeBugs
 kommunizieren. ;-)
 
 -- 
 Michael
 
 
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Re: [Talk-de] OSM auf dem 25C3

2008-11-26 Thread Philipp Seidel

Hallo,

Am Dienstag 25 November 2008 schrieb Marcus Wolschon:
 Ich habe mal einen Stub für OpenStreetMap im Wiki des 25C3 angelegt.
 Wäre nett, wenn das noch jemand vervollständigen könnte und wir ein paar
 Leute für einen Tisch finden.

ich würde beim Tisch mitmachen. Im Moment sieht es jedoch so aus, dass ich es 
am 27.12. noch nicht zum Congress schaffe, sondern erst am 28.12. mittags da 
sein werde. Wäre das ein Problem?

PhiBo

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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich

2008-11-26 Thread Andreas Labres

Michael Buege wrote:
 Dann brauchen ja die Wiener nicht laenger via OpenStreeBugs
 kommunizieren. ;-)

Tu Du nur lästern... ;)

Servus, Andreas

(Spruch aus meiner Schulzeit:
 Wer brauchen ohne zu gebraucht, braucht brauchen gar nicht zu gebrauchen ;)

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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste Presseteam

2008-11-26 Thread Sven Anders

Am Mittwoch, 26. November 2008 09:37 schrieb Michael Buege:
 Zitat Jan Tappenbeck:
  Sven Anders schrieb:
  Moin,
  wir haben eine neue Mailingliste für alle Presse-Interessierten OSMler.
 
  http://lists.openstreetmap.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/presseteam
 
  kannst Du mir auch sagen worunter ich diese Group finde wenn ich als
  Newsreader, direkt aus dem TB, abfrage ?

 Um eine Mailingliste mit einem Newsreader lesen zu koennen, muss jemand die
 Mailingliste zum Beispiel bei Gmane registrieren.
 Wenn du bis heute abend warten kannst, mache ich das gerne und gebe die
 Adresse dann bekannt.

Ich wäre dafür das wir eine Aufschaltung vom Gmane erst vornehmen, wenn wir 
uns darüber im Presseteam einig sind. Ich würde mir wünschen, das wir dort 
auch interes über Presseanfragen etc. besprechen können. Deshalb fände ich es 
besser, wenn diese Liste halböffentlich ist, und nicht über gmame gefunden 
wird.

Gruß
Sven

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Re: [Talk-de] Wanderweg - Relation - Frankenweg

Hallo Karl,

 nach Rücksprache mit dem zuständigen Wegewart gelöscht.
 Wenn's ein offizieller zubringer ist

Da verlasse ich mich ganz auf den Chef-Wegewart des FAV.
Offizieller gehts nicht.
Ich vermute, der hat seine Wege so im Griff, dass es auch keine 
Inkompatibilitäten bei der Beschilderung gibt (neu angelegt).
Falls doch: Meldung an mich, ich werde es klären.

 http://www.gnu.franken.de/ke/trips/2008/20081123-signalstein.html
 Das Ding funktioniert nicht.
 Doch, es tut weiterhin.

Bei mir ist der Marker in Weissenohe schaltbar,
aber die eingeschalteten Wege werden nicht angezeigt.

Auf http://www.lau-net.de/baerlocher/osm/Simmelsdorf.html müsste der 
Frankenweg und die Gemeindegrenze schon beim Laden erscheinen, tun sie 
aber nicht bei mir, lassen sich auch nicht einschalten.

Ideen zur Fehlersuche sind willkommen!

 ein symbol oder einen text in regelmäßigen abständen anbringen

ja, das wäre super!
Hilfreich wäre das Symbol auch im Auswahlmenü.
Eine PNG-Symbolsammlung gibt es hier:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Wanderweg-Symbole

 Kann OpenLayers eigentlich auch mit gepackten GPX-Dateien umgehen?

Weiss ich leider nicht.

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich

2008-11-26 Thread Roland Spielhofer

Wolfgang Silbermayr schrieb:
 Hallo!
 
 Einige von euch haben vielleicht mitbekommen, dass eine eigene
 Mailingliste für Österreich im Gespräch war. Diese ist jetzt verfügbar
 [0]. Ich freue mich auf viele österreich-spezifische Themen.
 
 Grüße, Wolfgang.
 
 ---
 [0] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at

Subscribed!
Wenn die jetzt auch noch auf GMANE gelistet würde, wäre es perfekt.
Grüße,
Roland


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[Talk-de] Info-Abend zu OSM sucht Referenten

2008-11-26 Thread Christian Hartnick

Hallo,

kann dem Herrn jemand weiterhelfen:

Gruß

Christian

Christoph Weber, Haus Felsenkeller e.V. schrieb:
 Guten Tag, Herr Hartnick.

 Wir sind eine Bildungseinrichtung in Altenkirchen / nördlicher 
 Westerwald. Im Rahmen unseres Programms planen wir für den 2. Dezember 
 um 19 Uhr einen Informationsabend zu OpenStreetMap.
 Nähere Infos unter
 http://www.haus-felsenkeller.de/index.php?option=com_awcalendartask=detailid=738Itemid=15
  

 und
 http://www.haus-felsenkeller.de/content/blogsection/0/9/

 Zu diesem Abend suchen wir noch einen Referenten. Leider können wir 
 bei unseren Infoabend niemals die Zahl der Interessenten vorhersagen; 
 es kann durchaus sein, dass lediglich eine Handvoll Menschen zu dem 
 Abend kommen. Trotzdem ergibt sich vielleicht eine Möglichkeit, das 
 Thema auch in unserer Region bekannter zu machen. Haben Sie eine Idee, 
 wer als Referent auftreten könnte? (Ebenfalls) leider können wir nur 
 die Fahrtkosten übernehmen.

 Viele Grüße




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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste Presseteam

2008-11-26 Thread Jochen Topf

+1

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:21:15AM +0100, Marco Lechner wrote:
 -1 = Veto, Ablehung
 -0 = nicht einverstanden, beugt sich aber der Mehrheit
  0 = trägt die Entscheidung der anderen mit, kann aber nicht beurteilen,
 ob sie gut ist (zu wenig Information, keine Zeit sich zu informieren, etc.)
 +0 = unterstützt den Antrag passiv, kann aber nicht aktiv zum Thema
 beisteuern
 +1 = Zustimmung, unterstützt den Antrag voll und arbeitet auch mit
 
 
 Sven Anders schrieb:
  [...]
  Ich wäre dafür das wir eine Aufschaltung vom Gmane erst vornehmen, wenn wir 
  uns darüber im Presseteam einig sind. Ich würde mir wünschen, das wir dort 
  auch interes über Presseanfragen etc. besprechen können. Deshalb fände ich 
  es 
  besser, wenn diese Liste halböffentlich ist, und nicht über gmame gefunden 
  wird.

Jochen
-- 
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Re: [Talk-de] Anfrage ZDF Drehscheibe

Zitat Jan Tappenbeck:
 
[Anfrage ZDF-Drehscheibe]

 würde ich gerne machen - aber ich habe das Problem aller (Zeit).
 
 Wenn einer das für Lübeck machen würde, dann würde ich entsprechend
 versuchen zu unterstützen.

Habe gerade mit Frau Schmidt telefoniert. 
Konkret geht es um einen Fernsehbericht. Am liebsten waere dem Redakteur
doch der Bezug zu Hamburg. Luebeck ginge auch, erfordert aber mehr Aufwand
bei der Logistik. Terminwunsch ist irgendwann unter der Woche und noch vor
Weihnachten. Ich habe darauf hingewiesen, dass wir idR tagsueber arbeiten
und es nach Feierabend momentan mit den Lichtverhaeltnissen nicht so
guenstig ist. Deswegen wird das Ganze wohl an einem Samstag (13. Dezember?)
stattfinden. Ablauf ist der uebliche, wir laufen oder fahren mit GPS und
Notizblock/Foto/Audio los, sammeln Daten, beschreiben, was wir notieren und
warum, anschliessend Eingabe der Daten in einen Rechner und Editieren.
Das dauert idR nicht sehr lange, da werden ein paar Beispiel-Einstellungen
gemacht und wiederholt und die ueblichen Fragen zu Geschichte, Sinn und
Zweck, Motivation, Anwendungen usw. gestellt. 
Jan, du kannst ja mitmachen. Als Profi _und_ OSM-Mapper wirst du bestimmt
einige interessante Aspekte beisteuern koennen. Und vielleicht wird ja eine
Reality-Soap draus und die naechste Folge spielt dann in Luebeck. ;-)

-- 
Michael


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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich

2008-11-26 Thread Wolfgang W. Wasserburger


ist das wirklich sinnvoll? verfolg mal die Diskussion, die gerade auf der
Presseteam-Liste geführt wird. Da wird dies aus verschiedenen Gründen eher
abgelehnt.

lg W.


  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Wolfgang
  Silbermayr
  Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:52 AM
  To: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch
  Subject: Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich
 
 
  Roland Spielhofer wrote:
   Subscribed!
   Wenn die jetzt auch noch auf GMANE gelistet würde, wäre es perfekt.
 
  Habs mal beantragt, sollte nicht allzu lange dauern bis es drinnen is.
 
  Grüße, Wolfgang.
 
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Re: [Talk-de] Anfrage ZDF Drehscheibe

2008-11-26 Thread Jan Tappenbeck

Hallo Michael,

ich werde mir das mal im Kalender notieren und dann können wir uns 
kurzfristig nochmal abstimmen.

Gruß jan :-)


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Re: [Talk-de] touchandtravel - Fahrkarte per Handy buchen

2008-11-26 Thread Tobias Hägele

Am Dienstag, den 25.11.2008, 16:12 +0100 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck:
 Moin !
 
 bei uns habe ich gerade neue Gerätschaften am Bahnhof um per NFC-Technik 
 Fahrkarten mit dem Handy zu buchen.
 
 http://www.touchandtravel.com/site/touchandtravel/de/start.html
 
 Hat einer schon überlegt die Standort zu mappen und wie diese zu taggen 
 wären ??

Kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass das nützlich ist. Bei den Bahnhöfen hier
hängen ziemlich viele von den Dingern rum, also man hat immer eines in
Sichtweite. Es wär evtl während der Testphase interessant die Bahnhöfe
selbst mit sowas wie NFC YES/NO zu markieren.


 vending-machine wäre wohl nicht ganz passend - da kommt ja nicht direkt 
 was raus ?!?!?
 
 
 Gruß Jan :-)
 
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Re: [Talk-de] OSM Inspector - maxspeed

John07 schrieb:
 Danke, leider lädt das gerade sehr zäh, aber scheint am [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Server zu 
 liegen. Bitte an den Autor: Auch Mapnik als Layer auswählbar.
 Ansonsten, falls Geofabrik noch Platz und Rechenkapazität hat, könnten 
 sie das ja vllt. einbauen und damit einen aktuelleren Service anbieten. 
 Ich hoffe der ursprüngliche Autor ist dadurch dann nicht gekränkt.
   

Hallo zusammen,
die maxspeed-Karte wird gerade wieder neu gerechnet. Zoom 0-12 sind 
schon online.
Ich habe dazu eine eigene Wiki-Seite angelegt:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:MaxSpeed_Karte
Dort steht nun das Datum des Updates und eine Legende. Außerdem habe ich 
einige Werte ergänzt und Farben angepasst.

Wenn jemand geeigneten WEBSpace zur Verfügung hat, lade ich gerne die 
Tiles auch dorthin hoch!

Gruß,
Stefan


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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich

2008-11-26 Thread Norbert Wenzel

 Von: Norbert Wenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[... 2x dasselbe ...]

Sorry für's doppelt posten, Webmailer sind einfach *...[kann wer die 
Unicodezeichen für die schönen Fluchsymbole in Asterix auswendig?]...*

Sorry,
Norbert

-- 
Sensationsangebot nur bis 30.11: GMX FreeDSL - Telefonanschluss + DSL 
für nur 16,37 Euro/mtl.!* http://dsl.gmx.de/?ac=OM.AD.PD003K11308T4569a

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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern

Hallo Martin,

zumindest für die Stadt Regensburg gibt es hier
http://www.statistik.regensburg.de/publikationen/amtliche_verzeichnisse.php
u.A. ein Straßenverzeichnis, das man zur Kontrolle verwenden kann.
Siehe auch hier:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Regensburg

Martin Trautmann schrieb:
 Gäbe es aber vielleicht zumindest die Möglichkeit, ein entsprechendes 
 Straßenverzeichnis zu bekommen?


   


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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern

2008-11-26 Thread Martin Trautmann

Markus wrote:

 Bayern stellt als *Pilotprojekt mit OSM* die Luftbilder in 2-m-Auflösung 
 für den gesamten Regierungsbezirk Oberpfalz (10.000 m²) zur Verfügung. 

Meinen Glückwunsch zu diesem Erfolg! Entweder hast du mit Engelszungen 
geredet oder offene Türen eingerannt.

Deren Gutmütigkeit reicht vermutlich nicht weit genug, auch gleich noch 
die Hauskoordinaten freizugeben?

http://www.geodaten.bayern.de/bvv_web/produkte/ha_0.html


Gäbe es aber vielleicht zumindest die Möglichkeit, ein entsprechendes 
Straßenverzeichnis zu bekommen?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bayern#Oberpfalz zeigt mit Stand 
2008-01-23, dass die Oberpfalz damals noch besonders schwach abgedeckt war.

Oberpfalz

AGS Kreus   Straßen von Abdeckung
09361   Stadt Amberg5   639 1 %
09362   Stadt Regensburg656 130250 %
09363   Stadt Weiden3   594 1 %
09371   Landkreis Amberg-Sulzbach   8   26660 %
09372   Landkreis Cham  113 42163 %
09373   Landkreis Neumarkt in der Oberpfalz 482 301716 %
09374   Landkreis Neustadt an der Waldnaab  87  28813 %
09375   Landkreis Regensburg339 43888 %
09376   Landkreis Schwandorf373 386410 %
09377   Landkreis Tirschenreuth 3   19980 %

Dennoch gab's schon damals etliche Fehler.

Beispiel:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Bavaria

 # Wegnummer, alte Schreibweise, Korrekturvorschlag, 
Gemeindeschlüssel, PLZ, Ortsteil

1.1 AM: Amberg, Oberpfalz

 * #14114428 Speckmandorfer Straße; Speckmannshofer Straße; 
09361000; 92224; Speckmannshof


Nächstes Jahr habe ich wieder mehr Zeit, die Abdeckung neu zu berechnen. 
Ein aktuelles Straßenverzeichnis würde dabei sehr helfen - denn im 
Unterschied zu allen anderen Bundesländern ist das in Bayern schwer zu 
bekommen.

Schönen Gruß
Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM Composer

2008-11-26 Thread Martin Simon

2008/11/25 Jan Tappenbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Moin !

 hat einer von Euch schon einmal Erfahrungen mit dem OSM-Composer gesammelt ?

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Composer

 Gruß Jan :-)

Ich habe mal versucht, das ganze unter OpenSuse 11.0 ans laufen zu
bekommen, allerdings funktioniert der Aufruf von srtm2osm mit mono
anscheinend nicht richtig und die resultierende Karte enthält die
unter mkgmap Regeln eingestellten Wegtypen und Symbole nicht.
Eventuell muss ich da erstmal sendmap oder Mapsource ans laufen
bringen...

Mich würden Erfahrungen mit dem Programm und vor allem den tools, die
es benutzt, unter Linux brennend interessieren.

Ich hätte vor, damit eine vernünftige Outdoor/- Wanderkarte für meinen
Bereich (Eifel, Voreifel, Siebengebirge...) zu erstellen und sie bei
Interesse dann auch irgendwo hochzuladen und wöchentlich zu
aktualisieren.

-Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste für Österreich

Zitat Wolfgang W. Wasserburger:

 
 ist das wirklich sinnvoll? verfolg mal die Diskussion, die gerade auf der
 Presseteam-Liste geführt wird. Da wird dies aus verschiedenen Gründen eher
 abgelehnt.

Gmane ermoeglicht im Grunde lediglich ein Verwalten von Mailinglisten ueber
einen Newsreader. An der Oeffentlichkeit der Mailinglisten aendert sich
nichts. 
Die Presseteam-Liste ist aus verschiedenen Gruenden nur halboeffentlich,
dass heisst, nicht nur der Schreib- sondern auch der Lesezugriff ist nur
eingetragenen Mitgliedern moeglich. Inwieweit Gmane diese Einschraenkung
unterstuetzt, muss erst noch herraus gefunden werden. 
Ich halte diese Einschraenkung bei den normalen regionalen oder
ueberregionalen OSM-Listen fuer wenig sinnvoll und sie wird idR auch nicht
angewandt. 

-- 
Michael


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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste Presseteam

Zitat Marco Lechner:

 Marco votiert: +1
 
 -1 = Veto, Ablehung
 -0 = nicht einverstanden, beugt sich aber der Mehrheit
  0 = trägt die Entscheidung der anderen mit, kann aber nicht beurteilen,
 ob sie gut ist (zu wenig Information, keine Zeit sich zu informieren,
 etc.) +0 = unterstützt den Antrag passiv, kann aber nicht aktiv zum Thema
 beisteuern
 +1 = Zustimmung, unterstützt den Antrag voll und arbeitet auch mit
 
 
 Sven Anders schrieb:
 [...]
 Ich wäre dafür das wir eine Aufschaltung vom Gmane erst vornehmen, wenn
 wir uns darüber im Presseteam einig sind. Ich würde mir wünschen, das wir
 dort auch interes über Presseanfragen etc. besprechen können. Deshalb
 fände ich es besser, wenn diese Liste halböffentlich ist, und nicht über
 gmame gefunden wird.

Du hast Recht, das hatten das ja auch letzten Samstag beim Workshop
besprochen, von daher +1.
Tja, man wird alt...  =8-[

-- 
Michael


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Re: [Talk-de] OSM auf dem 25C3

2008-11-26 Thread Marcus Wolschon

Am 26. November 2008 09:48 schrieb Philipp Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hallo,

 Am Dienstag 25 November 2008 schrieb Marcus Wolschon:
 Ich habe mal einen Stub für OpenStreetMap im Wiki des 25C3 angelegt.
 Wäre nett, wenn das noch jemand vervollständigen könnte und wir ein paar
 Leute für einen Tisch finden.

 ich würde beim Tisch mitmachen. Im Moment sieht es jedoch so aus, dass ich es
 am 27.12. noch nicht zum Congress schaffe, sondern erst am 28.12. mittags da
 sein werde. Wäre das ein Problem?

Überhaupt nicht.

Wer plant noch alles zum Congress zu kommen und könnt dann und
wann am Tisch Leuten was über OSM erzählen und das eine oder
andere zeigen?

An wen kann man sich wegen Flyern und so wenden? Frederic?

Marcus
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Re: [Talk-de] Selbstorganisation der deutschsprachigen Community

2008-11-26 Thread Marco Lechner

http://www.fossgis.de ist besser. Dies leitet zwar derzeit noch auf 
www.grass-verein.de um. Das liegt aber nur daran, dass sich die GAV e.V. 
(GRASS Anwender Vereinigung) diesen Sommer endlich in FOSSGIS e.V. 
umbenannt hat und die Inhalte der Webseite überarbeitet werden. Die 
echte Vereins-URL ist also definitiv  http://www.fossgis.de

Marco

Claudius Henrichs schrieb:
 Nach gründlicher Abwägung der Vor- und Nachteile aller Alternativen
 haben wir uns dafür entschieden, eine OpenStreetMap-Abteilung im Verein
 FOSSGIS e.V. zu gründen.
 

 Unterstütze ich sehr. Zur Vollständigkeit hier noch der Link zu FOSSGIS 
 e.V.: http://www.grass-verein.de

 Gruß aus Leipzig,
   Claudius


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Re: [Talk-de] Neue Mailingliste Presseteam

2008-11-26 Thread Christian Hartnick

Michael Buege schrieb:
 Zitat Marco Lechner:

   
 Marco votiert: +1

 -1 = Veto, Ablehung
 -0 = nicht einverstanden, beugt sich aber der Mehrheit
  0 = trägt die Entscheidung der anderen mit, kann aber nicht beurteilen,
 ob sie gut ist (zu wenig Information, keine Zeit sich zu informieren,
 etc.) +0 = unterstützt den Antrag passiv, kann aber nicht aktiv zum Thema
 beisteuern
 +1 = Zustimmung, unterstützt den Antrag voll und arbeitet auch mit


 Sven Anders schrieb:
 
 [...]
 Ich wäre dafür das wir eine Aufschaltung vom Gmane erst vornehmen, wenn
 wir uns darüber im Presseteam einig sind. Ich würde mir wünschen, das wir
 dort auch interes über Presseanfragen etc. besprechen können. Deshalb
 fände ich es besser, wenn diese Liste halböffentlich ist, und nicht über
 gmame gefunden wird.
   

 Du hast Recht, das hatten das ja auch letzten Samstag beim Workshop
 besprochen, von daher +1.
 Tja, man wird alt...  =8-[

   
Das sehe ich auch so: +1

Christian

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM Inspector - maxspeed

Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) schrieb:
 John07 schrieb:
   
 Danke, leider lädt das gerade sehr zäh, aber scheint am [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Server zu 
 liegen. Bitte an den Autor: Auch Mapnik als Layer auswählbar.
 Ansonsten, falls Geofabrik noch Platz und Rechenkapazität hat, könnten 
 sie das ja vllt. einbauen und damit einen aktuelleren Service anbieten. 
 Ich hoffe der ursprüngliche Autor ist dadurch dann nicht gekränkt.
   
 

 Hallo zusammen,
 die maxspeed-Karte wird gerade wieder neu gerechnet. Zoom 0-12 sind 
 schon online.
 Ich habe dazu eine eigene Wiki-Seite angelegt:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:MaxSpeed_Karte
 Dort steht nun das Datum des Updates und eine Legende. Außerdem habe ich 
 einige Werte ergänzt und Farben angepasst.
   
Danke, habe auf der Diskussionsseite mal meine Wünsche ergänzt.
 Wenn jemand geeigneten WEBSpace zur Verfügung hat, lade ich gerne die 
 Tiles auch dorthin hoch!
   
Wie viel wird denn gebraucht? Ich bin sicher, dass sich hier jemand findet.
Gruß
Jonas


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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern

Hallo Martin,

 Meinen Glückwunsch zu diesem Erfolg! 

Danke für die Blumen!

 Hauskoordinaten

Das ist Zukunftsmusik...

 Straßenverzeichnis

Gute Idee!
Dazu gibt es bereits eine Liste:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Straßenverzeichnis#Bayern

Ich schlage vor, dass die Einheimischen aus der Oberpfalz den üblichen 
bisher erfolgreichen Weg benutzen, und direkt beim Einwohnermeldeamt 
oder Bauamt ihrer Gemeinde darum bitten (bekommt man meist problemlos 
per Mail als XLS).

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bayern#Oberpfalz Stand 2008-01-23

Vielleicht kann man das nochmal laufen lassen?
Dann hätten wir eine schöne Baseline zum Projektstart...

Vielleicht kann Jochen Dich dabei untersützen?
Er überlegt grad, wie man das Projekt statistisch begleiten kann.
Magst Du direkt mit ihm Kontakt aufnehmen?

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Bavaria

Super, da gibt es ja schon ein richtiges Qualitätsmanagement!

 Ein aktuelles Straßenverzeichnis würde dabei sehr helfen - denn im 
 Unterschied zu allen anderen Bundesländern ist das in Bayern schwer zu 
 bekommen.

Auf welche Schwierigkeiten bist Du da gestossen?

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern

2008-11-26 Thread Olaf Hannemann

Hallo,
Am Dienstag, 25. November 2008 11:55:34 schrieb Christopher Köllmayr:
 Golem berichtet schon:

Jetzt ist es auch beim Linux Magazin angekommen:
http://www.linux-magazin.de/news/openstreetmap_daten_fuer_kanada_europa_und_die_oberpfalz_3d_routing

Grüße
Olaf

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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern

Hallo Stefan,

 für die Stadt Regensburg gibt es ein Straßenverzeichnis

kannst Du das bitte anfordern und dann eintragen:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Straßenverzeichnis#Bayern

 das man zur Kontrolle verwenden kann

Ja, dazu hat Sven Anders ein super Tool gebaut.

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM Inspector - maxspeed

John07 schrieb:
 Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR) schrieb:
   
 John07 schrieb:
   
 
 Danke, leider lädt das gerade sehr zäh, aber scheint am [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Server zu 
 liegen. Bitte an den Autor: Auch Mapnik als Layer auswählbar.
 Ansonsten, falls Geofabrik noch Platz und Rechenkapazität hat, könnten 
 sie das ja vllt. einbauen und damit einen aktuelleren Service anbieten. 
 Ich hoffe der ursprüngliche Autor ist dadurch dann nicht gekränkt.
   
 
   
 Hallo zusammen,
 die maxspeed-Karte wird gerade wieder neu gerechnet. Zoom 0-12 sind 
 schon online.
 Ich habe dazu eine eigene Wiki-Seite angelegt:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:MaxSpeed_Karte
 Dort steht nun das Datum des Updates und eine Legende. Außerdem habe ich 
 einige Werte ergänzt und Farben angepasst.
   
 
 Danke, habe auf der Diskussionsseite mal meine Wünsche ergänzt.
   
 Wenn jemand geeigneten WEBSpace zur Verfügung hat, lade ich gerne die 
 Tiles auch dorthin hoch!
   
 
 Wie viel wird denn gebraucht? Ich bin sicher, dass sich hier jemand findet.
 Gruß
 Jonas

   
Zoom 0-12 sind (aktuell) 158 MB in 60.633 Files und 300 Verzeichnissen
Zoom 13 sind (aktuell) 263 MB in 179.196 Files und 274 Verzeichnissen
Zoom 14 sind (bisher) 789 MB in 596.448 Files und 456 Verzeichnissen

Der Speicherplatz ist nicht so das Problem, aber der Upload via FTP ist 
sehr zeitintensiv, da es sich um so viele Einzeldateien handelt. 
Vielleicht ist aber auch nur mein alter Rechner, den ich als WEB-Server 
benutze zu langsam.

Ich bin gerade dabei, vor dem Transfer erst einmal alle leeren Kacheln 
(kleine PNG-Files) zu löschen, mal sehen, ob das was bringt.

Falls Du eine Möglichkeit hast, können wir das gerne mal testen!

Gruß,
Stefan


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Re: [Talk-de] Lösungsvorschlag Kacheln

Hallo André,

 das Ganze in Planquadrate aufteilen, 
 die man in maximal 30 Minuten bearbeiten kann
 Man trägt sich beim Start für eines ein und markiert es dann als bearbeitet. 
 Ergebnis von zwei anderen Personen gegengeprüft

Ja, auf dem Workshop hatten wir die Idee, einen Wettbewerb zu machen, 
bei dem die kartografierten Planquadrate markiert werden und so den 
Erfolg dokumentieren.

 PHP: für jede Kachel ein Eintrag in der DB, aktueller Bearbeiter, 
 check, ob es schon bearbeitet wurde, die beiden Reviewer. 
 sich eine zufällige Kachel zuweisen lassen können
 die dann incl. Link für JOSM angezeigt wird.

Super!

Magst Du Dich direkt mit Jochen in Verbindung setzen?

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern

2008-11-26 Thread Franz Stockerl

Hallo Markus,
 Ich schlage vor, dass die Einheimischen aus der Oberpfalz den üblichen 
 bisher erfolgreichen Weg benutzen, und direkt beim Einwohnermeldeamt 
 oder Bauamt ihrer Gemeinde darum bitten (bekommt man meist problemlos 
 per Mail als XLS).

   
ich habe gestern die Städte und Gemeinden im Landkreis Schwandorf,
exclusiv Schwandorf, Burglengenfeld, Maxhütte und Teublitz (folgen noch),
angemailt, das Projekt OSM vorgestellt und um ein Straßen- und
Ortsverzeichnis
gebeten. Bis jetzt hat sich noch nichts getan, aber schau'n mer mal.

Für Neunburg vorm Wald und die VGem Neunburg vorm Wald habe ich das
Verzeichnis schon.

Wenn jemand aus dem Landkreis Schwandorf mitliest, soll er sich mal bei
mir melden.
 Ein aktuelles Straßenverzeichnis würde dabei sehr helfen - denn im 
 Unterschied zu allen anderen Bundesländern ist das in Bayern schwer zu 
 bekommen.
 

In welcher Form, mit welchen Daten und wie strukturiert brauchst Du es?

mfg

geo-francis

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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern

Markus schrieb:
 Hallo Stefan,

   
 für die Stadt Regensburg gibt es ein Straßenverzeichnis
 

 kannst Du das bitte anfordern und dann eintragen:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Straßenverzeichnis#Bayern

   
 das man zur Kontrolle verwenden kann
 

 Ja, dazu hat Sven Anders ein super Tool gebaut.

 Gruss, Markus

   
Ja, das momentan verfügbare SV ist ein mehrseitiges PDF-File, das man 
sich neben den Rechner legen darf. Eine Veröffentlichung ist nicht 
eingeschlossen.

Ich werde aber mal sehen, ob ich offiziell eines bekomme (bzw. 
veröffentlichen darf)

Gruß,
Stefan


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Re: [Talk-de] Anfrage ZDF Drehscheibe

2008-11-26 Thread RalfGesellensetter

Am Dienstag 25 November 2008 schrieb Michael Buege:
 Weihnachtsmaerkte mappen

Gute Idee! Gibt es schon eine arts-Liste, auf der das Design des 
zugehörigen Symbols diskutiert wird (Legende)? Tannenbaum + 
Glühweinglas?

Gruß
Ralf

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Re: [Talk-de] Luftbilder LVA Bayern