date:20090701

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) 
ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote:


 Bus routes are appearing nicely now on:

 http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml


Wow! I'm jealous. I'd love to have something like this for Manchester. Here,
the bus routes are so maddeningly confusing (multiple operators with
different fare structures, and routes that seem to change monthly) that this
kind of map would be really useful.

I'm not even going to begin to attempt to map the bus routes though
(although I might do the 3 free inner-city bus routes).

Frankie

-- 
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com
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[Talk-transit] East Coast Main Line

Is it too soon to add operator=uk_government to
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4330149? :-)

Frankie

(P.S there doesn't seem to be a relation that covers the route yet).

-- 
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com
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Re: [Talk-transit] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus operator references

2009-07-01 Thread Peter J Stoner

In message !!AAAuAOKaD4mR3JBOrEpRon92nMgBANp/H2q5kHF 
ivkmsnziqazabxjaaabausnwhbbsxrjctfdkbi0tdaqaaa...@googlemail.com
  Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\) 
ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Brian Prangle [mailto:bpran...@googlemail.com] wrote:
Sent: 01 July 2009 5:22 PM
To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus operator references

Andy

You need to get up to date! ;-)

 It's not me that needs to get up to date then ;-) it's the Network West
 Midlands (aka Centro in this case) Website. For example:

 http://timetables.centro.org.uk/showtimetable.asp?file=2_a\11AWMT#11C

 Operator details are at the bottom and the version 3 is dated May 09.

 I was hoping our Transport friends might be able to enlighten us.

It would be a full time job to adjust the codes for every take over 
and rebranding.  So where codes are well known by the public they tend 
to remain in use for some time.  I think we will soon have a new code 
for NXEC!

-- 
Peter J Stoner
UK Regional Coordinator
Traveline   www.travelinedata.org.uk
follow us @traveline on Twitter
a trading name of
Intelligent Travel Solutions Ltd  company number 3826797
Drury House, 34-43 Russell Street, LONDON WC2B 5HA

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Re: [Talk-transit] East Coast Main Line

2009-07-01 Thread Shaun McDonald

It's not until later this year until the route will come under the  
government arm. What about the trains on the East Coast Route that go  
to Glasgow (via Motherwell), Aberdeen, and Inverness (i.e. North/West  
of Edinburgh). Should those tails be added to the route too, or a  
separate relation?


Shaun

On 1 Jul 2009, at 18:09, Frankie Roberto wrote:

Is it too soon to add operator=uk_government to http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4330149? 
 :-)


Frankie

(P.S there doesn't seem to be a relation that covers the route yet).

--
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com

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Re: [Talk-transit] East Coast Main Line

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.ukwrote:

It's not until later this year until the route will come under the
government arm.

Yeah, I was joking. It's a little premature. Still, I wonder what the
operator name should be? uk_government? Or operator=nationalised?

What about the trains on the East Coast Route that go to Glasgow (via
Motherwell), Aberdeen, and Inverness (i.e. North/West of Edinburgh). Should
those tails be added to the route too, or a separate relation?

This is where the relation type=route gets a little fuzzy. Are we
representing a service pattern, or a franchise, or a named rail corridor?
This has confused me recently when tagging heritage railways (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Independent_and_minor_railways).
For instance on the Mid Norfolk railway (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/165383), should name=Mid
Norfolk Railway be present on the relation, the ways, or both?

Frankie

Shaun

On 1 Jul 2009, at 18:09, Frankie Roberto wrote:

Is it too soon to add operator=uk_government to
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4330149? :-)

Frankie

(P.S there doesn't seem to be a relation that covers the route yet).

--
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com

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Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes

2009-07-01 Thread Melchior Moos

Hi,

Bus routes are appearing nicely now on:

 http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml


 Wow! I'm jealous. I'd love to have something like this for Manchester.
 Here, the bus routes are so maddeningly confusing (multiple operators with
 different fare structures, and routes that seem to change monthly) that this
 kind of map would be really useful.

 I'm not even going to begin to attempt to map the bus routes though
 (although I might do the 3 free inner-city bus routes).


I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the first
step and I think there will be someone who continues your work if he sees
the results or the objects in the database. The map available for the whole
europe, so you will se the results in the same way as in Birmingham:
http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13lat=53.48074lon=-2.24051
regards,
Melchior
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Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Melchior Moos melchiorm...@gmail.comwrote:


 I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the first
 step and I think there will be someone who continues your work if he sees
 the results or the objects in the database. The map available for the whole
 europe, so you will se the results in the same way as in Birmingham:
 http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13lat=53.48074lon=-2.24051


How do you start? Honestly, the information on the ground at bus stops is so
poor it's completely useless. Getting on a bus is like rolling a dice (which
determines where you'll end up, as well as how much you'll pay).

Frankie

-- 
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Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com
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Re: [Talk-transit] West Mids Bus Routes

2009-07-01 Thread Christoph Böhme

Melchior Moos melchiorm...@gmail.com schrieb:

 Hi,
 
 Bus routes are appearing nicely now on:
 
  http://www.mappa-mercia.org/public-transport-map.shtml
 
 
  Wow! I'm jealous. I'd love to have something like this for
  Manchester. Here, the bus routes are so maddeningly confusing
  (multiple operators with different fare structures, and routes that
  seem to change monthly) that this kind of map would be really
  useful.
 
  I'm not even going to begin to attempt to map the bus routes though
  (although I might do the 3 free inner-city bus routes).
 
 
 I would encourage you to map these routes. Someone needs to do the
 first step and I think there will be someone who continues your work
 if he sees the results or the objects in the database. The map
 available for the whole europe, so you will se the results in the
 same way as in Birmingham:
 http://www.xn--pnvkarte-m4a.de/?zoom=13lat=53.48074lon=-2.24051
 regards, Melchior

Yes, Melchior deserves the kudos for making the public transport map! We
merely display his great map on Mappa Mercia. 

Christoph

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Re: [talk-ph] RFC: additional tags for amenity=banks

2009-07-01 Thread Mike Collinson

I think that sounds excellent.  The tagging scheme is applicable globally and 
to not just banks but any retail activity.

Mike

At 03:37 AM 29/06/2009, maning sambale wrote:
Hi,

I would like to propose the following additional tags for bank POIs:

amenity=bank
name=Bank of the Philippines Islands
short_name=BPI
branch=Katipunan

If its OK with the group, I can do a bulk edit adding the short_name
for several banks like BPI, BDO, etc.

Disclosure:  I want to declutter bank names in my Garmin GPS map to
something like BPI (Katipunan) instead of the usual name.

-- 
cheers,
maning



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Re: [talk-ph] RFC: importing protected areas/ nationalparksboundaries

2009-07-01 Thread Marloue Pidor

Thanks, I have to remove my old Mt. Apo National Park data.

murlwe
-Original Message- 
From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com]
Sent: 7/2/2009 9:23:29 AM
To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] RFC: importing protected areas/
nationalparksboundaries

It's done!

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1705598

@ noel, Mount Kanlaon is included
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/37121643
@ edwaypointsdotph, Lake Balinsasayao is also included
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/37121637
@ murlwe, Moutn Apo is included
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/37121639 as well as a
multiploygon relation to exclude PNOC
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/165773

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:07 AM, maning
sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Last call for any comments on the planned national park/protected
area
 boundaries.  Anyone?

 On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 5:48 PM, maning
 sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Fineprint:
 Source: PAWB-DENR, CI Philippines
 Restriction: No restriction of use
 Date: 12/08/00
 Citation: Data Source: Participants of the Philippine Biodiversity
Conservation
 Priority-Setting Workshop, December 4 - 8, 2000
 Scale: 1:7,500,000

 On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Marloue
Pidormur...@mail2engineer.com wrote:
 Maning,

 Where did you get this data I just want to know the sections of the
Mt. Apo
 National Park. Based on RA 9237 Mt. Apo National Park have 3
section that
 includes the north-west and south-east buffer zones. Based on the
shape
 file, it is already merged.

 murlwe
 -Original Message-
From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com]
Sent: 6/14/2009 3:27:21 PM
To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] RFC: importing protected areas/ national
 parksboundaries

Hi,

Here is the protected area shapefile I intend to upload in OSM. I
removed some PAs whom I think has improper polygon boundaries.

Please review if you think this is suitable for OSM import.
Download link:

http://esambale.wikispaces.com/file/view/protected_areas_edited.zip

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:20 PM, maning
sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is it Mount Kanlaon National Park included? If we
include those
national park it would be much interesting for those who who use
OSM for
biodiversity conservation.
 Not sure, but I think it is. Right, in some areas there are
no road
 data simply because the are not much road in the first
place. It
 would be good for other data users (like conservationist)
to be able
 to use the data for their purpose. Some important features
I dream of
 adding:
 1. rivers
 2. landcover (different from landuse)
 3. coral reefs

 This can be mapped using landsat by the way.

 thanks.
  noel

 On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:33 AM, maning
 sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Not good enough:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3368/3595795759_20a6a76358_o.png

 It seems small protected areas were marked as large
squares just to
 appear on the 1:7M scale map.
 Still other boundaries are good. Need to edit first,
before import.

 On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:36 AM, maning sambale
 emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar
sea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Should we add them? Why not?
 OK, I will send a sample file for everyone to look
at before adding
them.

 I'm thinking of including additional tag, for example:

 name=Northern Sierra Madre Natural Park
 boundary=national_park
 NIPAS:category=natural park # this link for ref:

http://sunsite.nus.edu.sg/apcel/dbase/filipino/primary/phanip.html
 source=PBCPP, 2002 # this is the actual source of
publication

 Is this OK, or any better tag for this?

 I think these are the same shapefiles that
Microsoft Encarta
used in its
 Atlas component and the same ones imported into
Google Maps/Map
Maker. For
 instance look at the following Google Maps links:

 Biak-na-Bato National Park:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8ll=15.11853,121.087189spn=0.082363
,0.175781z=13

 We have way better boundary of Biak na Bato:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=15.1417lon=121.099zoom=13layer
s=B000FTF
 (I know because I stayed there for a few years)

 On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 5:33 PM, maning sambale
emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi,

 I found this in my gis database:

 123pas_ini_unproc.shp Unproclaimed
protected areas as initial
 components vis-a-vis integrated terrestrial
and inland
water priority
 areas.

 2pas_unproc_addl.shp Unproclaimed Protected
areas as additional
 components vis-a-vis integrated terrestrial
and inland
water priority
 areas.

 36pa_iniunproc_ver.shp Unproclaimed
protected areas
 with boundaries for verification as initial
components
vis-a-vis
 integrated terrestrial and inland water
priority areas.

 83pas_proc.shp Proclaimed protected areas
vis-a-vis integrated
 terrestrial and inland water priority areas.

 Fineprint:
 Source: PAWB-DENR, CI Philippines
 Restriction: No restriction of use
 Date: 12/08/00
 Citation: Data

[OSM-legal-talk] Adding UK post box information

2009-07-01 Thread Ed Avis

In Britain, the postal service has supplied a text file listing all
post boxes.  Each box has a 'ref' looking like 'W1 106', and of course
it has a location in the real world.  The text file doesn't give
lat/long or grid references, just the name of the street or
intersection.  Sometimes the address given is precise enough to deduce
the location of the postbox by looking at the OSM map, but other times
when it just gives a street name you must find the post box by hand.

The original file, converted into tab-separated format, can be
downloaded here: http://edwardbetts.com/postboxes/postboxes.tsv

http://www.dracos.co.uk/play/locating-postboxes/ is a project to
locate all the post boxes on the list.  Its data partly comes from
OSM, but also from people manually locating a post box on the map
based on the street name given in the text file.  By submitting, you
agree to place the location you submit in the public domain.

I would like to import this data into OSM - to add post box nodes with
'ref' tags.  As far as I can tell this data is in the public domain;
mere facts are not covered by copyright, and the lat/long data has
been derived by hand using the addresses in the file (and OSM data) as
a guide.  I know that some people (who are not lawyers any more than I
am) have differing opinions, and feel that any information derived
from the list of postboxes must still be subject to the Royal Mail's
copyright somehow.  (In which case I would argue that copying the
'ref' and delivery time information from the notice on the front of
each postbox must be equally infringing.)  Anyway, because there is
disagreement, I wanted to check with you people before doing anything.

Can the manually located postboxes, based on OSM data and a list of
postbox street locations from the Royal Mail, be added to OSM?

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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[OSM-legal-talk] ODbL 1.0 Final Released

2009-07-01 Thread Grant Slater

Legal-talk,

Not yet announced here...

ODbL 1.0 was officially released on Monday by Open Data Commons...
http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/

Our potential implementation plan:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Implementation_Plan#Current

Regards
 Grant

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Adding UK post box information

2009-07-01 Thread Gervase Markham

On 01/07/09 11:18, Ed Avis wrote:
 Can the manually located postboxes, based on OSM data and a list of
 postbox street locations from the Royal Mail, be added to OSM?

Yes. But have you checked with Matthew Somerville, the author of that 
tool? AIUI it's already integrated with OSM. I did the whole of N14, and 
added it to OSM, and it showed up in the tool as done. (But perhaps he 
hasn't yet implemented integration in the other direction...)

Gerv


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Re: [OSM-talk] Is OpenAerialMap service dead?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Robin Paulson wrote:
 2009/6/13 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de:
 Also - Is OpenStreetPhoto going to be usable for storage of ground level
 photos of junctions, bridges etc which can be useful for photo route
 planning or not. The name you have used would lead me to expect that it
 would, however the project description seems to focus on aerial
 photography. Would this be a possible extension of the project?
 http://openstreetphoto.org/map.html?zoom=11lat=51.82169lon=4.35867layers=BT

 It is work in progress :) The Google Summer of Code part of the projects
 takes image recognition to the next level; slight preview:
 
 will this ever turn into a google street view type project?

That is our intention. But we are currently busy with streetsign
recognition and photo rectification for aerial images.


Stefan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEAREKAAYFAkpK/zYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn21XwCgjn/MW0EN/DlBa9yl48KUWQDE
lecAmgMGhkSegGc/a3Xscsr69o5v6AUA
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Re: [OSM-talk] Bus routes questions

2009-07-01 Thread Jochen Topf

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 08:50:30PM +0200, Ondrej Novy wrote:
 i think it's time to cleanup bus routes concept
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Public_Transportation
 
 * forward/backward_stop can't work if you map bus_stop as standalone waypoint
 * stop_number is useless because we have ordered relations
 * if bus goes from place A throw B to place C, should i create relation only
   in one direction - A, B, C - or - A, B, C, B, A - or should i create two
   (theoretical more) relations for every trace (A, B, C + C, B, A)?
 * what if bus have two routes - one for morning, one for evening - should it
   be two relations, or just one with 'every ways'? Example: A, B, C, D -
   morning, A, C, D - evening.

There is a proposal on the table that solves all these things and much more:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema

This was the result of a public transport workshop in Germany. People in
Germany have started to tag according to this proposal to see how practical it
is. Also see the public transport views on http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/

Discussions should probably go to the talk-transit list:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit

Jochen
-- 
Jochen Topf  joc...@remote.org  http://www.remote.org/jochen/  +49-721-388298


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[OSM-talk] Error in wiki tag {{Language-Mapper}} for Spanish

2009-07-01 Thread Ivan Garcia

Hi, I've just realized that the list of languages displayed in the wiki of
openstreetmap.org shows 'Espanol' instead of 'Español' (correct), can you
guys fix this?

Thks a lot.
Ivan Garcia.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Error in wiki tag {{Language-Mapper}} for Spanish

2009-07-01 Thread Maarten Deen

Ivan Garcia wrote:
 Hi, I've just realized that the list of languages displayed in the wiki of
 openstreetmap.org shows 'Espanol' instead of 'EspaÃ±ol' (correct), can you
 guys fix this?

Fixed.

Regards,
Maarten


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[OSM-talk] [Announcement] accessibility mailing list

2009-07-01 Thread Mike Collinson

Following the success of similar German-language mailing lists, there is now an 
accessibility mailing list for  topics on all kinds of disabilities and things 
like navigation on mobile devices and tactile maps.



For details on how to subscribe to this and other country, language, and 
topic-specific OSM mailing lists, see

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mailing_lists

Mike



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Re: [OSM-talk] Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) - Openstreetmap import first pass

2009-07-01 Thread Joe Richards


 there are some obvious omissions and variations as you mentioned one that 
 stands out to me is the omission of the Rakaia River which is more than a 
 small creek! 

I'm not entirely sure why these are not showing up.  It's not a case of the 
tags being missing, they are lacking in the original data as well.  I'll upload 
the .osm files shortly for you to peruse..

 and also Canterbury some roads shown as minor tracks but as I see it having 
 them is a huge bonus as they can be retagged later to correctly display etc 
 from local survey/knowledge

Right, I think some roads are being tagged as dirt tracks, when instead they 
should possibly just be surface=unpaved, hence they won't show up with dotted 
brown lines...

 I don't have you tech skills but would be happy to assist with improving 
 correcting the data after the import as I have quite alot of local knowledge 
 and about and about all over the SI

That's exactly what it's about at this stage, spotting anomalies, tagging 
problems and other omissions...



  

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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) - Openstreetmap import first pass

2009-07-01 Thread andrzej zaborowski

2009/6/30 Joe Richards joefis...@yahoo.com:
I've been working on the LINZ data import, on attribution/legal as well
as the actual import. The LINZ data I have is actually via the NZ
Open GPS project

Would it make sense to get access to the original dataset from which
the NZOGPS dataset is generated, before attempting import? There are
surely things that don't fit in the Garmin format and were left out,
also I seem to remember that format uses 5 decimal digits accuracy
(which isn't terribly bad but using the original values would be
better) (it may have been specific to the Garmin files I had to deal
with and not a general rule, please correct me). Otherwise, when the
LINZ data becomes available it will take another big effort to merge
data imported so far with new data that became available.

On the other hand I realise it's best to import as soon as possible so
that people can get on with mapping even further details and fixing
any problems in imported data.

I've hacked around with a few other scripts and have created a python
script which creates .osm files, and then imported them into a local
postGIS instance I run at home. From there I've generated tiles using
Mapnik and uploaded them to a dev server for your perusal

Upload is still in progress but most are there already (starting in the
north and working south). It's just south of Christchurch already and
I have gone and rendered Dunedin, Queenstown and Glenorchy ahead
of time. If you find zoom 16 is not visible then zoom out a bit until you
find the available tiles. As mentioned all of the north island is done.

http://linz.dev.openstreetmap.org/~JoeRichards/

Notes:
* import was done on a basic world map (from vmap0) to provide
coastlines where they were missing
* some large rivers have a lot of detail, but some seem to be missing
altogether (e.g. Lower Hutt river) - this was also missing in the NZOGPS
dataset,
not sure why
* tiles are still being generated and uploaded now (Tue 30th June),
but all of the north island to 16 zoom levels is done as well as the
Tasman... South of Christchurch is still being uploaded (although some
tiles are there at lower zoom levels)
* I think most of the road types (primary, secondary, trunk) etc
might be completely off, including the link roads. Please send me any
specific instances or comments on this
* No attempt made to support anything like turn restrictions or
relations since this was missing from the original dataset

If you see POLYLINEs with type 0x19, these would be turn restrictions
in the Garmin format, and if you see POLYGONs with multiple DataN
(e.g. Data0) elements, those would be multipolygons. When I made my
conversion script, before I discovered the multipolygons, I saw
missing objects, like the rivers you notice are missing, which makes
me wonder whether they're coded as multipolygons and not getting
converted.

It would be interesting to make the script you used emit some info of
the number of objects that have not been converted.

http://repo.or.cz/w/ump2osm.git has the script I use for converting
the MP format to .osm, I took the approach to error out on unknown
object types to make sure every bit of information gets converted. It
has some smart bits like figuring out the class of a roundabout based
on the classes of roads that meet the roundabout, converting address
information (housenumbers, etc), assigning layers (bridges, tunnels),
etc. but I don't know how many of these features were specific to the
dataset I dealt with and how many were part of the garmin format /
Polish Map format.

Turn restrictions are especially painful to add to converted data
afterwards compared to adding during the conversion.

Regards

Source (GPL) is here
http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/utils/import/linz2osm/mp2osm_linz_jr.py

Anything in the code marked as TODO or FIXME requires special attention and
verification.

Enjoy and feel free to comment!

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[OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM

2009-07-01 Thread SteveC

I've been thinking a bit about how bugs work in OSM.

I really like the way OSB works

http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/

But it's closed source afaik and doesn't have an API. It uses human  
input. new OSB is cool and tries to fix some of this

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Emka/new_OSB

I like keepright

http://keepright.ipax.at/

But it's more automated.

Here's my vision for how bugs should work.

You go to http://bugs.openstreetmap.org/

There's a big map of bugs which looks similar to OSB. It doesn't know  
who you are and drops you in to beginner mode which shows bugs that  
are relevant to you - human entered stuff say. There is an  
intermediate mode which shows a slide which, when slid, shows more  
bugs. So at the low end human entered stuff, but at the high you get  
every single fixme from OSM. Then there is expert mode which looks  
like keepright, and you can click various things on and off.

How do you enter bugs? There are two ways. As a human on bugs.osm.. 
www.openstreetmap.org 
  you can click a little green plus like OSB has on the map, or  
potlatch will let you do it too.

But, and this is key, it also has a RESTful API for mass uploading of  
bugs.

We need to do two things - unify the various bug systems and expose  
more of the bugs.

To give you an example there are tons of bugs in the US, but there is  
no systematic way to fix them, or even begin fixing them. There are  
some good HOWTOs on the wiki on the actual individual details of how  
to fix a bridge connected to the road beneath it, but no big list of  
such bridges or where they are. We need to make this systematic.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup/Over_Connectedness

Why is my system better than OSB or keepright?

OSB with a simple API might fly, but it's not open and not quite part  
of OSM. Keepright kind of gets there but the barrier to entry is high.  
If I want to do an import and list bugs to check, or I want to write  
my own little maplint utility to check for X or Y or Z I have to learn  
whatever language keepright is in and start hacking against a large  
codebase. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would offer a really simple  
REST api to throw bugs at.

I envisage it as a sort of clearing house for bugs. It will quickly  
become very useful for lots of people writing small, loosly-joined  
tools. The barrier to me writing a small bug app is low. I imagine all  
sorts of little apps writing things to submit bugs much as keepright  
or maplint sort of do now. All they have to do, is run a script to  
report the bugs from planet every week (or whatever) and keep track of  
the bug IDs and see if they're closed yet.

Now on the output side I think there is a huge amount of potential.

Right now people don't know where to start fixing things. You can  
point people at OSB but that is human only, or you could point them at  
keepright or maplint but then you have to fight to maintain those  
things. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would be a central clearing  
house which everyone can submit to and use.

To go back to that example, if someone writes a script to find all  
freeways in the USA which connect at right angles to residential roads  
and submits them through the api to bugs.openstreetmap.org then you  
have a big dataset. It becomes super fun, cool and easy to motivate  
the community and say - hey lets fix all those bugs in the US. You can  
draw graphs of the number of bugs being eaten up, show progress, make  
a leaderboard... all the things that will motivate a *lot* of people  
to fix these things. It will be so cool to be able to have many people  
working on closing bugs, I'd make it my number one slide in every talk  
I go to, saying go to bugs.openstreetmap.org and enter or fix a bug  
maybe I should already with OSB.

Now, you can of course just write a standalone app to do that freeways  
in the US a bit like keepright is a standalone app, but having it work  
for that, then someone else enters all the bugs in Spain that they're  
interested in, someone else when they import the next GNIS or  
something, adds bugs against all the imported PoIs that they need to  
be checked, other people can just enter bugs they see it becomes a  
very powerful system. All it needs is a little REST api.

And what's doubly great is that it's basically a weekend, if that,  
project to get started and do the simplest pieces. Then we can iterate  
it from there.

Thoughts?

Best

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Error in wiki tag {{Language-Mapper}} for Spanish

2009-07-01 Thread Ivan Garcia

Thanks a lot Maarten, good to see that fast answer.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 Ivan Garcia wrote:
  Hi, I've just realized that the list of languages displayed in the wiki
 of
  openstreetmap.org shows 'Espanol' instead of 'Español' (correct), can
 you
  guys fix this?

 Fixed.

 Regards,
 Maarten


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[OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Hello,


sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the 
application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its 
protocol) is changing.

Therefore my appeal: Ask your next admin/provider for ipv6 , make a plan and 
make the network working, add the  to dns an be happy. Solve the little 
problems .

google is one jump ahead (in selected networks):

maps.google.com is an alias for maps.l.google.com.
maps.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:a003::68




Regards,
Thomas Schäfer


-- 

There’s no place like ::1






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Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM

2009-07-01 Thread Renaud Martinet

I think there was some talk about that last year (march or june) when
OSB appeared. If I remember, people liked the interface because it's
rather nice and it lowers the entry level. So more people submit bugs
and eventually also fix them, we get a better map and all is well.
But it has also been said that we need advanced features, similar to a
software bugtracking application. There was even some suggestions to
adapt Trac to map bugs tracking but it sounded awkward and probably a
bit complicated.
Anyway we need the same core features but we could also have feeds so
people can monitor new bugs in their area and then go fix them, things
like that that will make people take action because they feel pride in
keeping their area bug free. Pretty much like people monitoring
articles on Wikipedia.
The API is essential in my view so we can have one day applications
running on car GPSes that will help people report bugs when
travelling. So then we beat Tomtom's Mapshare on the very same idea
they ripped off from OSM :)


Renaud.


P.S.: Steve sorry for double post.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:22 PM, SteveCst...@asklater.com wrote:
 I've been thinking a bit about how bugs work in OSM.

 I really like the way OSB works

        http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/

 But it's closed source afaik and doesn't have an API. It uses human
 input. new OSB is cool and tries to fix some of this

        http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Emka/new_OSB

 I like keepright

        http://keepright.ipax.at/

 But it's more automated.

 Here's my vision for how bugs should work.

 You go to http://bugs.openstreetmap.org/

 There's a big map of bugs which looks similar to OSB. It doesn't know
 who you are and drops you in to beginner mode which shows bugs that
 are relevant to you - human entered stuff say. There is an
 intermediate mode which shows a slide which, when slid, shows more
 bugs. So at the low end human entered stuff, but at the high you get
 every single fixme from OSM. Then there is expert mode which looks
 like keepright, and you can click various things on and off.

 How do you enter bugs? There are two ways. As a human on bugs.osm.. 
 www.openstreetmap.org
  you can click a little green plus like OSB has on the map, or
 potlatch will let you do it too.

 But, and this is key, it also has a RESTful API for mass uploading of
 bugs.

 We need to do two things - unify the various bug systems and expose
 more of the bugs.

 To give you an example there are tons of bugs in the US, but there is
 no systematic way to fix them, or even begin fixing them. There are
 some good HOWTOs on the wiki on the actual individual details of how
 to fix a bridge connected to the road beneath it, but no big list of
 such bridges or where they are. We need to make this systematic.

        http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup/Over_Connectedness

 Why is my system better than OSB or keepright?

 OSB with a simple API might fly, but it's not open and not quite part
 of OSM. Keepright kind of gets there but the barrier to entry is high.
 If I want to do an import and list bugs to check, or I want to write
 my own little maplint utility to check for X or Y or Z I have to learn
 whatever language keepright is in and start hacking against a large
 codebase. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would offer a really simple
 REST api to throw bugs at.

 I envisage it as a sort of clearing house for bugs. It will quickly
 become very useful for lots of people writing small, loosly-joined
 tools. The barrier to me writing a small bug app is low. I imagine all
 sorts of little apps writing things to submit bugs much as keepright
 or maplint sort of do now. All they have to do, is run a script to
 report the bugs from planet every week (or whatever) and keep track of
 the bug IDs and see if they're closed yet.

 Now on the output side I think there is a huge amount of potential.

 Right now people don't know where to start fixing things. You can
 point people at OSB but that is human only, or you could point them at
 keepright or maplint but then you have to fight to maintain those
 things. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would be a central clearing
 house which everyone can submit to and use.

 To go back to that example, if someone writes a script to find all
 freeways in the USA which connect at right angles to residential roads
 and submits them through the api to bugs.openstreetmap.org then you
 have a big dataset. It becomes super fun, cool and easy to motivate
 the community and say - hey lets fix all those bugs in the US. You can
 draw graphs of the number of bugs being eaten up, show progress, make
 a leaderboard... all the things that will motivate a *lot* of people
 to fix these things. It will be so cool to be able to have many people
 working on closing bugs, I'd make it my number one slide in every talk
 I go to, saying go to bugs.openstreetmap.org and enter or fix a bug
 maybe I should already with OSB.

 Now, you can of course

Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

2009-07-01 Thread Sander Hoentjen

On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 16:43 +0200, Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 Hello,
 
 
 sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the 
 application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its 
 protocol) is changing.
 
 Therefore my appeal: Ask your next admin/provider for ipv6 , make a plan and 
 make the network working, add the  to dns an be happy. Solve the little 
 problems .
 
 google is one jump ahead (in selected networks):
 
 maps.google.com is an alias for maps.l.google.com.
 maps.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:a003::68
 
Heh well if you insist on viewing osm over ipv6 you can always visit the
netherlands:

tile.openstreetmap.nl is an alias for productie.openstreetmap.nl.
productie.openstreetmap.nl has address 93.186.179.161
productie.openstreetmap.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1

openfietskaart.nl has address 93.186.179.161
openfietskaart.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1




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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  Therefore my appeal: Ask your next admin/provider for ipv6 , make a
plan and
 make the network working, add the  to dns an be happy. Solve the little 
 problems .

Asked and answered.

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018603.html

-- 
Jonathan (Jonobennett)

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[OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread maning sambale

Hi,

I get this error using bulk_upload.py:

$ python bulk_upload.py --input=pas_osm.osm --user=
--password= --comment=*
bulk_upload.py:42: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated
  import sets
Uploading change set:1701375
Error uploading changeset:404

Any advice?
-- 
cheers,
maning
--
Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
--

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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread Iván Sánchez Ortega

El Miércoles, 1 de Julio de 2009, maning sambale escribió:
 I get this error using bulk_upload.py:
[...]
 Any advice?

Try the PHP bulk uploader :-D


-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es

Lo he comprobado con mucho cuidado y ésa es exactamente la respuesta. Para ser 
franco con vosotros, creo que el problema consiste en que nunca habéis sabido 
realmente cuál es la pregunta.
   -- el ordenador Pensamiento Profundo en la Guía del 
autoestopista galáctico (Douglas Adams)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Bus routes questions

2009-07-01 Thread simon

 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 08:50:30PM +0200, Ondrej Novy wrote:

 There is a proposal on the table that solves all these things and much
 more:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/Public_transport_schema


I like this proposal, it seems to cover most things that I can think off.
I've added to the discussion page for those it doesn't.

Remember when reading this page, that it is dealing with the physical. The
route relation will still handle the routing around network, with specific
directions, time constraints, etc.

I'd still recommend the 'casual/non-rendered/non-processed' tag (ie.
'bus_routes=2,4,5') to help the mapper understand what is there.

Cheers,
Mungewell.


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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Jonathan Bennett schrieb am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009:

 Asked and answered.

No, the answer was not satisfying. 


 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018603.html


Now we have 2009!

Regards,

Thomas Schäfer

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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread Alice Kaerast

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:49:48 +0200
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es wrote:

 El Miércoles, 1 de Julio de 2009, maning sambale escribió:
  I get this error using bulk_upload.py:
 [...]
  Any advice?
 
 Try the PHP bulk uploader :-D
 
 

The PHP bulk uploader does indeed fine if all you want to do is upload
*new* nodes.  It causes duplicates if you try uploading existing data.
The PHP uploader may need modifying slightly to handle curl not liking
the OSM API, ie.

curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HTTPHEADER, array('Expect:'));

needs prepending to the other curl_setopt lines.  (For some reason
my svn client has decided it is unable to give diffs any more)


-- 
Alice

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[OSM-talk] Education talk at SOTM

2009-07-01 Thread Sarah Manley

Hello All,

I am working on a talk about OSM + Education for SOTM. If you have any  
projects / curriculum / initiatives that you would like included or to  
share with me, please contact me.

Thanks!
Sarah


Sarah Manley
Community Ambassdor
sa...@cloudmade.com
Cell: 415-254-3050
Skype: Sarah_cloudmade
Twitter: SarahManley


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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 No, the answer was not satisfying. 

What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand?

-- 
Jonathan (Jonobennett)

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6


--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote:

 What part of it's not under our control didn't you
 understand?

Have you asked your provider lately about IPv6 address space? Most providers 
seem to be setting up IPv6 silently and/or more proactive lately when it comes 
to IPv6.

Alternatively you can get a free tunnel from he.net, and he.net routes are in 
some cases better than IPv4 equivalents...


  

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Jonathan Bennett wrote:
 Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 No, the answer was not satisfying. 
 
 What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand?

Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :)


Stefan

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLj1AACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn09CQCfXJi9Lgu0qYSK7IX/TWujsowf
7icAn3eLN0GJ8HPnb359hUJiRQr7ozhm
=CtLR
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread Steve Singer

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, maning sambale wrote:

 Hi,

 I get this error using bulk_upload.py:

 $ python bulk_upload.py --input=pas_osm.osm --user=
 --password= --comment=*
 bulk_upload.py:42: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated
  import sets
 Uploading change set:1701375
 Error uploading changeset:404


A 404 is Not Found

What is in the file your trying to upload, is it a set of node adds, deletes 
or modifications?

Is it possible that your trying to delete/modify an item that has already 
been deleted?

Steve




 Any advice?
 -- 
 cheers,
 maning
 --
 Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
 wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
 blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
 --

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

2009-07-01 Thread Ondrej Novy

hi,

On Wed, Jul 01, 2009 at 04:20:55PM +, John Smith wrote:
 Have you asked your provider lately about IPv6 address space? Most providers 
 seem to be setting up IPv6 silently and/or more proactive lately when it 
 comes to IPv6.

this is true, completly silent most of them :).

 Alternatively you can get a free tunnel from he.net, and he.net routes are in 
 some cases better than IPv4 equivalents...

don't use tunnels for big services please, it's really REALLY not good idea.

-- 
S pozdravem/Best regards
 Bc. Ondrej Novy
 
Email: on...@nomi.cz
Jabber: on...@njs.netlab.cz
ICQ: 115-674-713
Tel/Cell: +420 777 963 207

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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread andrzej zaborowski

2009/7/1 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com:
 Hi,

 I get this error using bulk_upload.py:

 $ python bulk_upload.py --input=pas_osm.osm --user=
 --password= --comment=*
 bulk_upload.py:42: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated
  import sets
 Uploading change set:1701375
 Error uploading changeset:404

 Any advice?

I think the bulk_upload.py script doesn't show the error message given
by the server (it would tell you what exactly is wrong with the
changeset and you could fix it then).

I have at http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/ a bunch of
utility scripts for bulk uploading, which do show the exact error
message.  They are a little lower level than the scripts currently in
svn so I was thinking whether I should ask for an account and put the
scripts in the SVN beside the existing upload scripts there.

Features:
upload progress indication,
splitting changesets into smaller changesets

If the file doesn't need to be split, to upload an .osm file you'll
just need to convert it to a changeset by calling
./osm2change.py pas_osm.osm

and upload with:
./upload.py pas_osm.osc

Cheers

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[OSM-talk] Second Grand State Of the Map Poetry Competition!!

2009-07-01 Thread Mike Collinson

A really important poetry event that I almost forgot about.  

SOTM 2009 is almost with us and over 200 people coming.  201 if you have 
forgotten to register.

Last year we had some great Limerick poems for the Limerick State Of the Map 
Conference. This year, the format is the Haiku.

Contributions to this list or to 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2009/Poetry_Competition 
welcome.

The winner will be announced during the conference and will receive a year's 
supply of free air.


Simple rules:

- Use three lines of up to 17 syllables; 
- Allude to a season of the year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kigokigo); 
- Something to do with OpenStreetMap, maps, mapping, open data licenses,  
potlatch, your favourite tag, high visibility jackets ...

As last year, three categories:

- Haiku you would show your mother and that she just might understand. 
- Dubious Haiku that you certainly would not show your mother. 
- Obscure jargon-ridden Haiku that no-one except hard core OSM mappers would 
understand. 



Mike

Last year's entries:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2008/LimerickPoemCompetition

More on haiku at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_in_English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku


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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread maning sambale

Hi,

These are all new nodes and ways (protected area boundaries) converted
from a shapefile using polyshp2osm.py.
I did manual modifications using josm but since josm has limits for
each changeset, I tried th bulk_upload script.

Another weird thing is:
?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?
osm version='0.5' generator='JOSM'
  node id='-1' visible='true' version='0' lat='10.6017' lon='119.2297' /
  node id='-2' visible='true' version='0' lat='10.7049' lon='119.1266' /
  node id='-3' visible='true' version='0' lat='11.1176' lon='119.1212' /
  node id='-4' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
lat='11.1185' lon='119.196' /
  node id='-5' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
lat='11.1132' lon='119.2005' /
  node id='-6' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
lat='11.0383' lon='119.3036' /
  node id='-7' visible='true' version='0' lat='11.0356' lon='119.3183' /
  node id='-8' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
lat='10.9974' lon='119.3366' /
  node id='-9' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
lat='10.9965' lon='119.3341' /
  node id='-10' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
lat='10.9906' lon='119.3342' /
  node id='-11' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
lat='10.9882' lon='119.3354' /
  node id='-12' visible='true' version='0' lat='10.9854' lon='119.3351' /

Osm version saved was still 0.5.


On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:31 AM, Steve Singerssinger...@sympatico.ca wrote:
 On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, maning sambale wrote:

 Hi,

 I get this error using bulk_upload.py:

 $ python bulk_upload.py --input=pas_osm.osm --user=
 --password= --comment=*
 bulk_upload.py:42: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated
  import sets
 Uploading change set:1701375
 Error uploading changeset:404


 A 404 is Not Found

 What is in the file your trying to upload, is it a set of node adds, deletes
 or modifications?

 Is it possible that your trying to delete/modify an item that has already
 been deleted?

 Steve




 Any advice?
 --
 cheers,
 maning
 --
 Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
 wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
 blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
 --

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cheers,
maning
--
Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Second Grand State Of the Map Poetry Competition!!

2009-07-01 Thread Iván Sánchez Ortega

El Miércoles, 1 de Julio de 2009, Mike Collinson escribió:
 Last year we had some great Limerick poems for the Limerick State Of the
 Map Conference. This year, the format is the Haiku.

Maps maps
maps maps maps maps
maps!

-- 
--
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es

Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja.

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb OJ W:
 Improving the net in other directions, can the OSM servers be made
 contactable via the I2P network?

This is a totaly different problem.

Regards,

Thomas

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[OSM-talk] How to merge relations ?

2009-07-01 Thread Carsten Nielsen

It seems that the Danish National Cycle Network 8 has been put in two
seperate relations
(208282 and 131762).
What is the easiest way to merge those two relations ?
They only have 129 and 180 members so it would be possible to merge
them manually, but
I expect this is a more generic problem so there is probably a simpler
solution.
I thought that I could use them both as members in a third relation, but
I could not figure out how to do that
with JOSM or potlach.

Any advice ?


ablansinger / Carsten Nielsen

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Jonathan Bennett schrieb am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009:
 Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  No, the answer was not satisfying.

 What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand?

Do you mean this part of the answer from 2007:

Well we're largely dependent on UCL (and Bytemark to a lesser extent)
being able to allocate us IPv6 addresses for our machines.

Have you asked ?  (this year, not in the Dark Ages)

Nearly all academic/unisversity networks support ipv6 (nl ,be, ch, de, fr, at, 
cn, jp, pt, edu,)  

Openstreetmap is a very progressive project and it does not fit, if we are the 
last member of the ipv6-internet.


bytemark has some infos to this topic:
http://www.bytemark.co.uk/support/technical_documents/ipv6

Also ucl is involved with projects in ipv6. 

Make OPENSTREETMAP to the traffic-KILLER-APPLICATION for ipv6 at ucl !!


Lets solving the Chicken-and-egg problem in ipv6 by simply doing it.


Regards,

Thomas Schäfer








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Re: [OSM-talk] How to merge relations ?

2009-07-01 Thread Tyler

You could select the smaller relation in JOSM go the the relation viewer,
select all of the members of the relation. Go to the larger relation and do
add selected members.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Carsten Nielsen list_re...@toensberg.dkwrote:

 It seems that the Danish National Cycle Network 8 has been put in two
 seperate relations
 (208282 and 131762).
 What is the easiest way to merge those two relations ?
 They only have 129 and 180 members so it would be possible to merge
 them manually, but
 I expect this is a more generic problem so there is probably a simpler
 solution.
 I thought that I could use them both as members in a third relation, but
 I could not figure out how to do that
 with JOSM or potlach.

 Any advice ?


 ablansinger / Carsten Nielsen

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Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM

2009-07-01 Thread Tom Chance

Steve,

All good ideas, as data becomes ever more densely and confusingly packed (just 
open Potlach in a completed Germany city!) the OSB site offers a nice way for 
Human Beings to get involved. Three thoughts:

1 - Being able to show which logged-in users submitted bugs would be a great 
help for me. I have a couple of people who add OSB bugs for street numbers and 
other minor fixes and since I trust them I put that data straight in when they 
put their name to it without having to go out and check, but accounts of 
course make it much more trustworthy.

2 - Further down the line people should be able to attach photos, as I'd love 
to do something like a call for random people to submit cycle parking / street 
numbers where I can't trust their word but could trust a well taken photo, and 
(related to 1) could contact them if it's unclear.

3 - Make it easy to integrate with other web sites, e.g. we nicked the Mappa 
Mercia OSB stuff for http://map.oneplanetsutton.org/openstreetbugs.html

Cheers,
Tom

On Wednesday 01 Jul 2009 15:22:32 SteveC wrote:
 I've been thinking a bit about how bugs work in OSM.

 I really like the way OSB works

   http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/

 But it's closed source afaik and doesn't have an API. It uses human
 input. new OSB is cool and tries to fix some of this

   http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Emka/new_OSB

 I like keepright

   http://keepright.ipax.at/

 But it's more automated.

 Here's my vision for how bugs should work.

 You go to http://bugs.openstreetmap.org/

 There's a big map of bugs which looks similar to OSB. It doesn't know
 who you are and drops you in to beginner mode which shows bugs that
 are relevant to you - human entered stuff say. There is an
 intermediate mode which shows a slide which, when slid, shows more
 bugs. So at the low end human entered stuff, but at the high you get
 every single fixme from OSM. Then there is expert mode which looks
 like keepright, and you can click various things on and off.

 How do you enter bugs? There are two ways. As a human on bugs.osm..
 www.openstreetmap.org you can click a little green plus like OSB has on the
 map, or
 potlatch will let you do it too.

 But, and this is key, it also has a RESTful API for mass uploading of
 bugs.

 We need to do two things - unify the various bug systems and expose
 more of the bugs.

 To give you an example there are tons of bugs in the US, but there is
 no systematic way to fix them, or even begin fixing them. There are
 some good HOWTOs on the wiki on the actual individual details of how
 to fix a bridge connected to the road beneath it, but no big list of
 such bridges or where they are. We need to make this systematic.

   http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TIGER_fixup/Over_Connectedness

 Why is my system better than OSB or keepright?

 OSB with a simple API might fly, but it's not open and not quite part
 of OSM. Keepright kind of gets there but the barrier to entry is high.
 If I want to do an import and list bugs to check, or I want to write
 my own little maplint utility to check for X or Y or Z I have to learn
 whatever language keepright is in and start hacking against a large
 codebase. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would offer a really simple
 REST api to throw bugs at.

 I envisage it as a sort of clearing house for bugs. It will quickly
 become very useful for lots of people writing small, loosly-joined
 tools. The barrier to me writing a small bug app is low. I imagine all
 sorts of little apps writing things to submit bugs much as keepright
 or maplint sort of do now. All they have to do, is run a script to
 report the bugs from planet every week (or whatever) and keep track of
 the bug IDs and see if they're closed yet.

 Now on the output side I think there is a huge amount of potential.

 Right now people don't know where to start fixing things. You can
 point people at OSB but that is human only, or you could point them at
 keepright or maplint but then you have to fight to maintain those
 things. Instead, bugs.openstreetmap.org would be a central clearing
 house which everyone can submit to and use.

 To go back to that example, if someone writes a script to find all
 freeways in the USA which connect at right angles to residential roads
 and submits them through the api to bugs.openstreetmap.org then you
 have a big dataset. It becomes super fun, cool and easy to motivate
 the community and say - hey lets fix all those bugs in the US. You can
 draw graphs of the number of bugs being eaten up, show progress, make
 a leaderboard... all the things that will motivate a *lot* of people
 to fix these things. It will be so cool to be able to have many people
 working on closing bugs, I'd make it my number one slide in every talk
 I go to, saying go to bugs.openstreetmap.org and enter or fix a bug
 maybe I should already with OSB.

 Now, you can of course just write a standalone app to do that freeways
 in the US a bit like

Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Stefan de Konink schrieb am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009:
 - gpg control packet

 Jonathan Bennett wrote:
  Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  No, the answer was not satisfying.
 
  What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand?

 Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :)

I have fun. I use tunnels (unfortunately) at home/mobile and native 
connections at work. 

But a network is more than I . 
I would like to speak to somebody. 

e.g. http://sixy.ch

Thomas 

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Sander Hoentjen:

 Heh well if you insist on viewing osm over ipv6 you can always visit the
 netherlands:

 tile.openstreetmap.nl is an alias for productie.openstreetmap.nl.
 productie.openstreetmap.nl has address 93.186.179.161
 productie.openstreetmap.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1

 openfietskaart.nl has address 93.186.179.161
 openfietskaart.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1


Great! It works indeed.

Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the UK is not 
able to serve the world.


Regards,

Thomas Schäfer

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[OSM-talk] passive user inputs

2009-07-01 Thread Russ Nelson

Apparently Teleatlas has been using passive user inputs.  Also, the  
mp3Car folks already have GPS units in their cars that can do logging,  
and are connected to the Internet if only at home via wifi.  How can  
we use massive amounts of car tracks?

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/mp3car-blog-talk/133427-community-generated-map-data-passive-vs-active-teleatlas-vs-openstreetmaps.html

--
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http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson


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Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM

Hi,

SteveC wrote:
 But, and this is key, it also has a RESTful API for mass uploading of  
 bugs.
 
 We need to do two things - unify the various bug systems and expose  
 more of the bugs.

I believe that the types of bugs one can look for are quite different. 
You'd have to build a very good system if it is to be able to capture 
all kinds of bugs - don't think that simply having something like 
lat/lon/text is enough, because some bugs might be relevant for a whole 
area, or you might have a two nearby streets share the same name bug 
which points to two ways rather than one location, etc etc

Not saying it can't be done but if you want to replace the various bug 
systems then you need to be able to do what they can do or it is a step 
backwards.

I'm also wary of the centralistic let's set up a database and have 
everyone upload their data to us approach. Maybe keeping true to your 
clearinghouse idea the central service should *only* know that there 
is some other service that has found a bug in a certain location, and 
when the user wants to know more, the other service is interrogated 
through an API. The other service might, for example, guide the user 
through an automatic fixing process for certain types of bugs, or offer 
things like find similar bugs in the vicinity or so. Plus, every coder 
could contribute to something like that in the language(s) he prefers, 
and without having to ask for his functionality to be included in some 
central service.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

2009-07-01 Thread Russ Nelson


On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the  
 UK is not
 able to serve the world.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is  
essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap.  When the time  
comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it.   
Until then, this is all just wasted hot air.  Maybe we could talk  
about mapping instead?

--
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http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - 
http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson


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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Russ Nelson:
 On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the
  UK is not
  able to serve the world.

 I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is
 essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap.  When the time
 comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it.
 Until then, this is all just wasted hot air.  Maybe we could talk
 about mapping instead?

I don't like talk about mapping. I map. (as far I understand the hot discussed 
map features.)

Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because 
osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no 
further discussion about it.

Google does it, the dutch project-members do it, but only for their maps. 

Are you politician?  when the time comes . Should I pray for better times?

When?

When europe has 25% (target ec Ms Reding, end next year) oder when China has 
no addresses left?

We are young, we should drive not be driven.

Regards,

Thomas 

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Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM

2009-07-01 Thread Nic Roets

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:22 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:


 You go to http://bugs.openstreetmap.org/

 There's a big map of bugs which looks similar to OSB. It doesn't know
 who you are and drops you in to beginner mode which shows bugs that


I like this. If it's idiot proof and it does not slow the web browser down,
it can even go onto http://openstreetmap.org/
And if the user indicates that he just wants to add a PoI, redirect him to
http://ae.osmsurround.org/ so that he can add it directly to the database.
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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Stefan de Konink wrote:

 Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :)

Great idea! How long do you think it will take you?

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 Lets solving the Chicken-and-egg problem in ipv6 by simply doing it.
OK -- when are you available to set it up?

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Hi,

Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because 
 osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no 
 further discussion about it.

Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to 
IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what 
part of OSM would work better tomorrow?

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM

2009-07-01 Thread Adam Schreiber

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Nic Roetsnro...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 4:22 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:

 You go to http://bugs.openstreetmap.org/

 There's a big map of bugs which looks similar to OSB. It doesn't know
 who you are and drops you in to beginner mode which shows bugs that

 I like this. If it's idiot proof and it does not slow the web browser down,
 it can even go onto http://openstreetmap.org/
 And if the user indicates that he just wants to add a PoI, redirect him to
 http://ae.osmsurround.org/ so that he can add it directly to the database.

Using Mapnik tiles as an indicator of what's in the database could
lead to a lot of unnecessary bugs or points of interest being added.
For instance, in downtown Clemson, SC [1], the Subway has been mapped,
but doesn't appear on the map because of the labling of T.D.'s.  One
shouldn't always have to be removing duplicate bugs/POI.  Before the
interface adds a POI to the database, perhaps it should query a
bounding box around the reported area and see if there's a similarly
placed node that they'd like to edit the position of or tagging
instead of creating a new node.

Cheers,

Adam

[1] http://ae.osmsurround.org/?zoom=18lat=34.68343lon=-82.83641layers=BTT

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Jonathan Bennett wrote:
 Stefan de Konink wrote:
 
 Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :)
 
 Great idea! How long do you think it will take you?

For me probably about an hour if Jeroen is online ;)


Stefan

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jdoAn02D99kb92067O6FOU071qTncRf9
=o8x5
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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because 
 osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no 
 further discussion about it.
 
 Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to 
 IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what 
 part of OSM would work better tomorrow?

- - We could instantly move to distributed tilecaches automatically routed
to the closed tileserver available.

- - Likewise for a read only api

- - For the people that have multicasting available we could create a
stream of changesets that everyone that subscribes gets


I can think of much more...


Stefan
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLxBYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3nlQCfa5/PvSXTGMJO5ExgjRbB+4KV
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Re: [OSM-talk] The future of bugs in OSM

Hi,

Nic Roets wrote:
 And if the user indicates that he just wants to add a PoI, redirect him to
 http://ae.osmsurround.org/ so that he can add it directly to the database.

That's the point I was trying to make - do not hog all the bugs in one 
central place and allow users to do only what you have coded; instead 
open this up so that anybody can hook their app into the user interface 
to offer functionality.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to merge relations ?

2009-07-01 Thread Carsten Nielsen

Thank you, it worked.

Tyler skrev:
 You could select the smaller relation in JOSM go the the relation
 viewer, select all of the members of the relation. Go to the larger
 relation and do add selected members.

 On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Carsten Nielsen
 list_re...@toensberg.dk mailto:list_re...@toensberg.dk wrote:

 It seems that the Danish National Cycle Network 8 has been put in two
 seperate relations
 (208282 and 131762).
 What is the easiest way to merge those two relations ?
 They only have 129 and 180 members so it would be possible to merge
 them manually, but
 I expect this is a more generic problem so there is probably a simpler
 solution.
 I thought that I could use them both as members in a third
 relation, but
 I could not figure out how to do that
 with JOSM or potlach.

 Any advice ?


 ablansinger / Carsten Nielsen

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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Frederik Ramm:
 Hi,

 Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm,
  because osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done,
  then is no further discussion about it.

 Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to
 IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what
 part of OSM would work better tomorrow?

We ensure that also the first ipv6-only computers can access osm too.


It is not the question of to be better. The question of to be.

For sotm we have OSI Scholarships program . It is similar with ipv6. If we 
don't want to lose the last mapper in 'especially developing countries' we 
should enable ipv6.

Regards,

Thomas


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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Jonathan Bennett:
 Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  Lets solving the Chicken-and-egg problem in ipv6 by simply doing it.

 OK -- when are you available to set it up?

To enable radvd at the router?

To add some /PTR-Records at the DNS?

To check the firewall and to check if every service is listening on dualstack?

The biggest problem is to ask the networkoperator/admin to request and manage 
the subnet and its routing.

Therefore I don't need to travel to uk. 
Instead I make a public promise:

I will donate 200Euro(http://donate.openstreetmap.org/)  January 1st 2010, if 
all osm-servers accessible via native ipv6 at christmas 2009.

Mapping of extra-streets is much more difficult, because of the 
defintion extra.



Regards,

Thomas 








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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

2009-07-01 Thread Claudius

Am 01.07.2009 22:12, Frederik Ramm:
 Hi,

 Thomas Schäfer wrote:
 Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because
 osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no
 further discussion about it.

 Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to
 IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what
 part of OSM would work better tomorrow?

Taken from the german 'puter zine c't current edition 14:

There are not enough IPv4 adresses for Africa and Latin America already 
which is why they are assigning IPv6 only already. Now with the new east 
african internet cable this might lead to even more IPv6 users in 
potential OSM countries, but... all those IPv6 users cannot reach IPv4 
only servers.

Claudius




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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

2009-07-01 Thread Steven Le Roux

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:


 On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the
  UK is not
  able to serve the world.

 I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is
 essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap.  When the time
 comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it.


Just for your information, Free (French ISP) is ipv6 ready for 4 millions
subscribers in France. It's not because other ISP can't assume their
function or are technologicaly late that OSM should not have the lead
here

And..; after all, isn't it the wealth of everey free/community/open project
to provide a solution even if there is only one person who need it ?

So... the fact is... some guys can help with that, me, Thomas, how could we
manage in  having a v6 stack/resolv ?

Maybe this is the wrong place to debate on that but I don't know if there is
a more appropriate list... maybe
talk-transithttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transitcould
be the noc list too ?



 Until then, this is all just wasted hot air.  Maybe we could talk
 about mapping instead?

 --
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 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
 r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM -
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Re: [OSM-talk] Revert changeset (was Fixing duplicate nodes/ways)

2009-07-01 Thread Robert Naylor

On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 14:16 +0100, an Alice Kaerast wrote:

 
 Is there any way that changesets #1420511 and #1420511 can be
 reverted?  I would imagine not given that work has continued since
 then.  Alternatively, how can we remove all the duplicate nodes and
 ways over this large area?
 
 I feel absolutely terrible for not noticing this sooner, and am
 terribly sorry for the problems caused.

Is there any way to remove the items in this changeset that haven't been
updated since upload on mass?  I've tried to fix the odd item, but there
is a lot of duplicated data.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing duplicate nodes/ways

Hi,

Alice Kaerast wrote:
 Is there any way that changesets #1420511 and #1420511 can be
 reverted?  

I'm trying my hand at it now. Both numbers given above are the same, did 
you mean another changeset besides 1420511?

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread Tom Hughes

On 01/07/09 16:58, Alice Kaerast wrote:

 The PHP bulk uploader does indeed fine if all you want to do is upload
 *new* nodes.  It causes duplicates if you try uploading existing data.
 The PHP uploader may need modifying slightly to handle curl not liking
 the OSM API, ie.

 curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HTTPHEADER, array('Expect:'));

 needs prepending to the other curl_setopt lines.  (For some reason
 my svn client has decided it is unable to give diffs any more)

That shouldn't be needed anymore - the latest version of lighttpd which 
we are now running has an option to stop it returning an error for those 
expect headers and it has been turned on for a while now.

Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing duplicate nodes/ways

2009-07-01 Thread Robert Naylor

On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:12:06 +0100, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org  
wrote:

 Hi,

 Alice Kaerast wrote:
 Is there any way that changesets #1420511 and #1420511 can be
 reverted?

 I'm trying my hand at it now. Both numbers given above are the same, did
 you mean another changeset besides 1420511?

 Bye
 Frederik


Its this one: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1420551

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[OSM-talk] Ensuring Cyclewyays/Footways are routable?

2009-07-01 Thread simon

I had a little play with Cloudmade's routing stuff and it wasn't quite
working for me.

http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=51.103306lng=-114.079413zoom=15directions=51.10050375773113,-114.0750789642334,51.10594712658125,-114.08280372619629travel=footstyleId=3697

Both foot and cycle routes take a long way around (car goes even further
thought an 'access=bus' section).

How often is the route database updated? Cycle way through path was last
edited around the 19th June, but is not used in the route.

Also in realality the park is also routeable, one could just walk up
Trafford Ave and over a bit of grass. Is it possible to tag so this can
happen?



And on this one, it routes the bike slightly further:
http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=51.118516lng=-114.048493zoom=16directions=51.11576782135306,-114.04864311218262,51.12080533765644,-114.04978036880493travel=bicyclestyleId=1714

If the start/end points are moved slightly it permits foot/cycles to go
both ways so it's not a tagging thing. What's going on?

Cheers,
Mungewell.


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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread maning sambale

After a bit of sleep, I was able to do it with the
http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/ utilities.
The data was not uploaded because it has a way with 4000 ++ nodes.
The upload.py reported this error so I was able to edit the data in
JOSM.
Personally, I prefer to upload everything via JOSM because it updates
the OSM file to include the assigned node/way ID.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:35 AM, andrzej zaborowskibalr...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/7/1 maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com:
 Hi,

 I get this error using bulk_upload.py:

 $ python bulk_upload.py --input=pas_osm.osm --user=
 --password= --comment=*
 bulk_upload.py:42: DeprecationWarning: the sets module is deprecated
  import sets
 Uploading change set:1701375
 Error uploading changeset:404

 Any advice?

 I think the bulk_upload.py script doesn't show the error message given
 by the server (it would tell you what exactly is wrong with the
 changeset and you could fix it then).

 I have at http://www.openstreetmap.pl/balrog/bulkupload/ a bunch of
 utility scripts for bulk uploading, which do show the exact error
 message.  They are a little lower level than the scripts currently in
 svn so I was thinking whether I should ask for an account and put the
 scripts in the SVN beside the existing upload scripts there.

 Features:
 upload progress indication,
 splitting changesets into smaller changesets

 If the file doesn't need to be split, to upload an .osm file you'll
 just need to convert it to a changeset by calling
 ./osm2change.py pas_osm.osm

 and upload with:
 ./upload.py pas_osm.osc

 Cheers




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Re: [OSM-talk] upload error using bulk_upload.py

2009-07-01 Thread Steve Singer

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, maning sambale wrote:

 Hi,

 These are all new nodes and ways (protected area boundaries) converted
 from a shapefile using polyshp2osm.py.
 I did manual modifications using josm but since josm has limits for
 each changeset, I tried th bulk_upload script.

 Another weird thing is:

  node id='-4' action='modify' visible='true' version='0'
 lat='11.1185' lon='119.196' /

I think the problem is that it has action=modify.
Node id=-4 isn't a real node id so that node isn't yet in OSM. 
bulk_upload.py sees the action=modify and takes that to mean that it 
should upload the node as a modification, when it really needs to upload the 
node as an add.

If you strip out the action=modify I think it will work.

I'm not sure if bulk_upload.py is doing the correct thing on a 'modify' with 
a negative node number or if the node id should take precedence over the 
action.



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Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6

2009-07-01 Thread Marcus Wolschon

Guys... what could it hurt to set up an ipv6.openstreetmap.org
with only an  -record or with  and A -records pointing at
the 6to4 -address associated with the current IPv4-addresse(s)
to let users and admins experiment without causing any issues
with the openstreetmap.org -name?

It is automatically anycast-routed to the nearest 6to4 -server.
Probably at the ISP, if not then at the nearest IX and it DOES
work for the network-load of real servers every day.

Marcus

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Steven Le Rouxste...@le-roux.info wrote:


 On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:

 On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote:
  Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the
  UK is not
  able to serve the world.

 I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is
 essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap.  When the time
 comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it.

 Just for your information, Free (French ISP) is ipv6 ready for 4 millions
 subscribers in France. It's not because other ISP can't assume their
 function or are technologicaly late that OSM should not have the lead
 here

 And..; after all, isn't it the wealth of everey free/community/open project
 to provide a solution even if there is only one person who need it ?

 So... the fact is... some guys can help with that, me, Thomas, how could we
 manage in  having a v6 stack/resolv ?

 Maybe this is the wrong place to debate on that but I don't know if there is
 a more appropriate list... maybe talk-transit could be the noc list too ?



 Until then, this is all just wasted hot air.  Maybe we could talk
 about mapping instead?

 --
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 http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson


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Re: [OSM-talk] passive user inputs




--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:
 wifi.  How can  
 we use massive amounts of car tracks?

How do you want to use them?

Actually this topic sort of come up recently on talk-au, firstly you can take 
all the data, remove spurious track information and average the results to 
come up with better accuracy.

The data could be used in a copyright case to protect OSM.

The information might be used to predict the maxspeed where ways aren't tagged 
properly.

The information could be used by routing algorythms to predict the best routes 
for specific times of day.

The list goes on.


  

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[OSM-talk] Communications tower/transponders

2009-07-01 Thread Simon Wood

I have had a go at tidying the proposed tags for communication towers and would 
welcome any comments.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Communications_tower
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Communications_Transponder

Cheers,
Simon.

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[OSM-talk-nl] mensen kunnen echolocatie aanleren

2009-07-01 Thread Bas

Beste Talk'ers,

http://www.nu.nl/wetenschap/2033184/mensen-kunnen-echolocatie-aanleren-.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uobuBc2GO0o
-- 
Met vriendelijke groet,

Bas de Lange

06 166 26 950

Hoofdorganisator Software Freedom Day Nederland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0_KiVdIOtc

http://softwarefreedom.nl/

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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] mensen kunnen echolocatie aanleren

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Bas wrote:

 http://www.nu.nl/wetenschap/2033184/mensen-kunnen-echolocatie-aanleren-.html
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uobuBc2GO0o

Jaren geleden bij Oprah wel eens gezien :) Blinde knaap die kon horen wat
er voor hem was.


Stefan


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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] mensen kunnen echolocatie aanleren

2009-07-01 Thread Roeland Douma

On Wednesday 01 July 2009 10:53:38 Stefan de Konink wrote:
 On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Bas wrote:
  http://www.nu.nl/wetenschap/2033184/mensen-kunnen-echolocatie-aanleren-.h
 tml http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uobuBc2GO0o

 Jaren geleden bij Oprah wel eens gezien :) Blinde knaap die kon horen wat
 er voor hem was.

WTF! Kijk jij Oprah? :P

--Roeland


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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] mensen kunnen echolocatie aanleren

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Roeland Douma wrote:

 On Wednesday 01 July 2009 10:53:38 Stefan de Konink wrote:
  On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Bas wrote:
   http://www.nu.nl/wetenschap/2033184/mensen-kunnen-echolocatie-aanleren-.h
  tml http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uobuBc2GO0o
 
  Jaren geleden bij Oprah wel eens gezien :) Blinde knaap die kon horen wat
  er voor hem was.
 
 WTF! Kijk jij Oprah? :P

En Dr. Phil!


Stefan


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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] mensen kunnen echolocatie aanleren

2009-07-01 Thread Rob

omg, dan kijk je ook vast naar tel sell ;)

Op 1 juli 2009 11:09 schreef Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de het
volgende:

 On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Roeland Douma wrote:

  On Wednesday 01 July 2009 10:53:38 Stefan de Konink wrote:
   On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Bas wrote:
   
 http://www.nu.nl/wetenschap/2033184/mensen-kunnen-echolocatie-aanleren-.h
   tml http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uobuBc2GO0o
  
   Jaren geleden bij Oprah wel eens gezien :) Blinde knaap die kon horen
 wat
   er voor hem was.
  
  WTF! Kijk jij Oprah? :P

 En Dr. Phil!


 Stefan


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Re: [talk-au] Mini-roundabout archive

2009-07-01 Thread Ross Scanlon

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:21:39 +1000
Rick Peterson ausr...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Can someone please direct me to the talk-au archive post where the 
 discussion commenced on the topic of mini-roundabouts ?
 
 Thanks
 
 Rick
 
 
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Not sure on the exact date but about October November 2008.

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[talk-au] JOSM upload woes: placeholder ids must be unique for created elements

2009-07-01 Thread b . schulz . 10

I'm getting the above error message (code 400) when trying to upload my latest 
set of edits. Any ideas how to get around it or fix it? JOSM doesn't give any 
feedback as to which placeholder ID is causing the error etc.

Googling the error message just gives a page with source code which handles the 
exception.

Please don't tell me the edits need to be done again :p.

Brent

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[talk-au] FIXED: Re: JOSM upload woes: placeholder ids must be unique for created elements

2009-07-01 Thread b . schulz . 10

Ok, was a bit hasty there. Turns out I had a no-right-turn relation with 6 
members because each member was added twice. Fixing that (ie, deleting the 
repeated members) fixed the problem and the chanset closed :).

- Original Message -
From: b.schulz...@scu.edu.au
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 6:47 pm
Subject: [talk-au] JOSM upload woes: placeholder ids must be unique for created 
elements
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org

 I'm getting the above error message (code 400) when trying to 
 upload my latest set of edits. Any ideas how to get around it or 
 fix it? JOSM doesn't give any feedback as to which placeholder 
 ID is causing the error etc.

 Googling the error message just gives a page with source code 
 which handles the exception.

 Please don't tell me the edits need to be done again :p.

 Brent

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Re: [talk-au] bus routes

2009-07-01 Thread Liz

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, John Smith wrote:
 There was a posting on the main talk list today about bus routes...

 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-July/038119.html
thanks
luckily or not, we don't have nay bus pass our place, but apparently there is 
a bus service in town.
it looked like a brain stretching exercise to me


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Re: [talk-au] Mini-roundabout archive

2009-07-01 Thread Liz

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Ross Scanlon wrote:
 Not sure on the exact date but about October November 2008.
probably late November - it started after that visit i made to adelaide and 
upset a local 
;-)


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Re: [talk-au] Mini-roundabout archive

2009-07-01 Thread Liz

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Ross Scanlon wrote:
 On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:21:39 +1000

 Rick Peterson ausr...@iinet.net.au wrote:
  Can someone please direct me to the talk-au archive post where the
  discussion commenced on the topic of mini-roundabouts ?
 
  Thanks
 
  Rick
 
 
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 Not sure on the exact date but about October November 2008.

http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2008-December/001136.html

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Re: [talk-au] bus routes


--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote:
 thanks
 luckily or not, we don't have nay bus pass our place, but
 apparently there is 
 a bus service in town.
 it looked like a brain stretching exercise to me

I guess that's why they're testing it, for usability as much as a method/means 
of storing all sorts of meta data within the framework of OSM.


  

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Re: [talk-au] How to make unamed streets stand out on JOSM?


John Smith wrote:
 .using the validator plugin

   
Hi John,

I originally loaded the Validator plugin using the JOSM interface and 
then I enabled it in the plugins menu.

I use it to check all of the data I download, usually before I start 
editing and then again before I upload my work. It's incredible what 
little errors I'd manage to miss, that it finds and highlights for me !!

Tips:
1. Make sure the validator plugin is loading (see image)
2. Ensure no nodes or ways are selected in JOSM
3. Click the Validate button
4. Get results in the validator pane (see image)
5. In the Validator pane, click the particular folder (in this case 
Warnings/Unnamed Ways) or individual sub items to highlight them in the 
main window in yellow (see image)
6. Where you have a full screen with lots of different errors, right 
click an item to zoom to problem

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Rick




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Re: [talk-au] How to make unamed streets stand out on JOSM?





opps, forgot to attach image links:

1.
http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx204/AusRick/?action="">
2.
http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx204/AusRick/?action="">
3.
http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx204/AusRick/?action="">

Rick Peterson wrote:

  John Smith wrote:
  
  
.using the validator plugin

  

  
  Hi John,

I originally loaded the Validator plugin using the JOSM interface and 
then I enabled it in the plugins menu.

I use it to check all of the data I download, usually before I start 
editing and then again before I upload my work. It's incredible what 
little errors I'd manage to miss, that it finds and highlights for me !!

Tips:
1. Make sure the validator plugin is loading (see image)
2. Ensure no nodes or ways are selected in JOSM
3. Click the Validate button
4. Get results in the validator pane (see image)
5. In the Validator pane, click the particular folder (in this case 
Warnings/Unnamed Ways) or individual sub items to highlight them in the 
main window in yellow (see image)
6. Where you have a full screen with lots of different errors, right 
click an item to "zoom to problem"

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Rick




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Re: [talk-au] How to make unamed streets stand out on JOSM?






John Smith wrote:
 Gympie has lots of unnamed ways, a number
added by me and I'm just trying to easily locate and name them.


Indeed I get 288 unnamed way errors when I do a generous area
download around Gympie QLD. (Including unnamed roundabouts which I've
written about before as a bugbear)

Something must not be configured correctly.

I'm using JOSM stable version 1669
Java version 1.6.0_13
and I regularly update all of my JOSM plugins using the
preferences/plugins/update button within JOSM.

Here's a screen capture of my Data Validator configuration page
http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx204/AusRick/?action="">






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Re: [talk-au] How to make unamed streets stand out on JOSM?


--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote:

 There is an ignore file for the validator - you can tell it
 to ignore
 certain types of errors.  It's a text file in the
 plugin area, I
 think.  You may have accidentally added streets to
 that, it easy to
 do.  There may be a setting to reset it, I forget, or
 just delete it.
 Somewhere in the docs it's mentioned, but it is obscure.

That was it, I don't even remember ignoring it but yea, deleted the ignore file 
and they all show up now.


  

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Re: [talk-au] How to make unamed streets stand out on JOSM?



--- On Wed, 1/7/09, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote:

 That was it, I don't even remember ignoring it but yea,
 deleted the ignore file and they all show up now.

Now all I need to figure out is how to ignore all unnamed ways where 
junction=roundabout :)


  

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Re: [talk-au] How to make unamed streets stand out on JOSM?



John Smith wrote:
  all I need to figure out is how to ignore all unnamed ways where 
 junction=roundabout :)
   

I hope you will share such valuable information should you happen upon a 
method! .. those roundabout false-positives drive me nuts !!

That aside, I find the JOSM Validator plugin a truly valuable piece of 
software for working with OSM data.


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Re: [talk-au] How to make unamed streets stand out on JOSM?