Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On Wed, Jul 01, 2009 at 08:25:54PM +0200, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Well we're largely dependent on UCL (and Bytemark to a lesser extent) being able to allocate us IPv6 addresses for our machines. Have you asked ? (this year, not in the Dark Ages) I don’t know about UCL (I imagine as a University they probably already have an easy route to IPv6), but Bytemark specifically offer it[1]. I guess that would cover the wiki and repository. [1]: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/support/technical_documents/ipv6?tags=IPv6 -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
--- On Sat, 4/7/09, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: I don’t know about UCL (I imagine as a University they probably already have an easy route to IPv6), but Bytemark specifically offer it[1]. I guess that would cover the wiki and repository. Someone already commented that UCL has native IPv6 routing, so yea still scratching my head why this isn't something simple to do. If there is concern about users not being able to connect because of windows bugs they could use alternative hostnames like ipv6.* although I haven't seen much of this problem in years to be honest, was fixed in XP sp2 if memory serves me correctly. Not sure what more I or most others can do since we don't have access to systems or contacts with providers but I'm willing to help if asked just like several others have offered. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On 2 Jul 2009, at 08:57, Tom Hughes wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. We (the admins) are all well aware of this. I personally have had IPv6 on my home network for some years now. Please, when will OSM support IP over pigeon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers Best Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
2009/7/3 SteveC st...@asklater.com: On 2 Jul 2009, at 08:57, Tom Hughes wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. We (the admins) are all well aware of this. I personally have had IPv6 on my home network for some years now. Please, when will OSM support IP over pigeon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers Presumably you can add it as an extension to your new OSM API? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Steve/WalkingPapers Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Please, when will OSM support IP over pigeon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers Best Steve You are not up2date: IPoSN is in http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5514.txt Therefore the solution must be: OSM over IPv6 over Social Networks But lets make the first step first. Regards, Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 SteveC wrote: On 2 Jul 2009, at 08:57, Tom Hughes wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. We (the admins) are all well aware of this. I personally have had IPv6 on my home network for some years now. Please, when will OSM support IP over pigeon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpN8uoACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1vEACgiu5cA1xnk4dAVSCgLGVmuS2I EAMAn166HE0lTAf7YGPa5NicMl4MTgbo =nUA2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
--- On Fri, 3/7/09, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: then you win. If you want to win, all you have to do according to a previous poster is draw up a migration plan for OSM. If that's the case, I'm not sure where the hold up is exactly because the work the .nl guys have put in proves that OSM can work over IPv6. One of the given host providers, Bytemark, has help pages on IPv6 so that can't be it. I'm still scratching my head as to why this isn't possible to be honest. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 John Smith wrote: --- On Fri, 3/7/09, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: then you win. If you want to win, all you have to do according to a previous poster is draw up a migration plan for OSM. As mentioned in the serious post before. We have yesterday *tested* IPv6 with SixXS at UCL... there were no issues, it *just* worked. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpN+UIACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1AVgCfekNj6i2oK3JmBPnbMRi3pccp K/QAniygx73QfTb5SWAcrig0PEU5WI0S =+Dkx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On Jul 3, 2009, at 8:15 AM, John Smith wrote: I'm still scratching my head as to why this isn't possible to be honest. It's possible, but it's pointless. First, there is no IPv4 to IPv6 transition plan. The two protocols don't coexist. Second, unless you have an IPv4 address, you aren't on the Internet. Third, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH IPv4 addresses to go around. The problem is that there is no price for IPv4 addresses. They are priceless. There is no market for them. Consequently, they are misvalued, misallocated, and misplaced. We need a free market for IPv4 addresses, just like we need a free market for any scarce commodity. Okay, NOW is it completely clear that this subject is not on topic for the Talk list? -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On 3 Jul 2009 08:47:04 -0400, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote: On Jul 3, 2009, at 8:15 AM, John Smith wrote: I'm still scratching my head as to why this isn't possible to be honest. It's possible, but it's pointless. First, there is no IPv4 to IPv6 transition plan. The two protocols don't coexist. Second, unless you That is absolutely wrong. They coexist on all my servers for years now and no customer ever reported having a problem. have an IPv4 address, you aren't on the Internet. Third, there are MORE THAN ENOUGH IPv4 addresses to go around. The problem is that there is no price for IPv4 addresses. They are priceless. There is no market for them. Consequently, they are misvalued, misallocated, and misplaced. Not relevant where a shortage comes from. As we can't influence it we have to deal with it. Marcus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
John Smith wrote: I'm still scratching my head as to why this isn't possible to be honest. It's possible, but it appears the people who think it's so important just want to sit on their arses and have someone else do the work. By comparison, when Relations were proposed, they happened because proponents (Frederik, I think?) were prepared to put the hours in to make them work. -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jonathan Bennett wrote: John Smith wrote: I'm still scratching my head as to why this isn't possible to be honest. It's possible, but it appears the people who think it's so important just want to sit on their arses and have someone else do the work. Right... Now this was yesterday #osm; (18:40:16) Skinkie: TomH: so why not test if it works :) (18:40:35) TomH: because it's a load of work for eff all gain and I've got much better things to do (18:41:02) Skinkie: ok great, as I asked before, is there any spare machine that I can become almighty user on, to actually *do* it? (18:41:23) TomH: do what? (18:41:43) Skinkie: Before I asked to setup a geodistributed tile cache, now I want to do that + ipv6 (18:42:06) TomH: ipv6 would need to be on the live service machines though to be of any uise (18:42:17) apmon: skinkie, how much work is it? I could potentially test the UCL firewall on my local laptop, but to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't work (18:42:19) Skinkie: TomH: you just said you had no time to test it (18:42:21) TomH: and no, there are no spare machines with public IP addresses (18:42:31) Skinkie: So I offer you my time to test it, and for someone else to deploy (18:42:43) TomH: right Skinkie you just managed to be the second person in my ignore list apmon actually tested it with me at UCL... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpOE10ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0n0gCeL38T7RG/w3ln3TPqL98Bge6x FsQAoI7U/37xxgZPxbCpfnvdc3M6i7j2 =y4yE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
--- On Fri, 3/7/09, Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote: It's possible, but it appears the people who think it's so important just want to sit on their arses and have someone else do the work. To be fair, only those with root access to production systems and contacts with their hosting company would be able to accomplish this, all anyone else can do is setup identical machines and show that it works, which has already happened. By comparison, when Relations were proposed, they happened because proponents (Frederik, I think?) were prepared to put the hours in to make them work. That is an apple and oranges comparison, although others have already setup and proven that IPv6 works. Unless the powers that be do it or give those wanting it access to machines and contacts there is nothing anyone else can do. It seems those that could make it happen don't understand how IPv6 works, nor care to find out. If there is native IPv6 lying around it can be setup on a system in 2 seconds flat, on debian it's as simple as enabling the ipv6 module and adding an entry to DNS if radvd is already up and running. Actually I'd laugh if they have ipv6 module loaded and an IPv6 address is attached already :) For fixed addresses which is what I'd suggest, then it doesn't matter if you change the NIC address you won't have to update DNS all you have to do is edit /etc/network/interfaces auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.1.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.1.255 gateway 192.168.1.1 post-up /sbin/ip -6 addr add 2001::::1/64 dev $IFACE pre-down /sbin/ip -6 addr del 2001::::1/64 dev $IFACE If radvd isn't about to announce the gateway you'll also need a ip -6 ro add default via 2001::::/64 but yea, pretty trivial if the upstream already provides it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On 03/07/2009, at 05:38, SteveC wrote: On 2 Jul 2009, at 08:57, Tom Hughes wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. We (the admins) are all well aware of this. I personally have had IPv6 on my home network for some years now. Please, when will OSM support IP over pigeon? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers Best Steve The protocol have been successfully tested by members of Bergen Linux User Group (BLUG) in Norway, I do not remember the details, but they could state both test distance and ping response time. An implementation of the protocol for both the wiki and OSM in general would mean that OSM coverage will be virtually global, and no longer depending on broadband connections. - ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Aun Yngve Johnsen wrote: An implementation of the protocol for both the wiki and OSM in general would mean that OSM coverage will be virtually global, and no longer depending on broadband connections. I wonder what the RTT would be from UK to USA. Maybe even the amount of packetloss; I mean if OpenShortestPigeonFlight is not used... that could be enormous. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpOHfMACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2IMwCgjjv3i/OFs6Hug2lA4NwNizE5 y+gAoIyz+xbVd2G3qKZYZizGNk/bfaxB =SXdS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
--- On Fri, 3/7/09, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: I wonder what the RTT would be from UK to USA. Maybe even the amount of packetloss; I mean if OpenShortestPigeonFlight is not used... that could be enormous. Assuming there is no large amount of packet losses due to packet interception or if they enter a war zone and get shot down :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
wasn't OSM's preferred link-layer discussed elsewhere? http://fakestevec.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-ceo-appointed.html On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:10 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Fri, 3/7/09, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: I wonder what the RTT would be from UK to USA. Maybe even the amount of packetloss; I mean if OpenShortestPigeonFlight is not used... that could be enormous. Assuming there is no large amount of packet losses due to packet interception or if they enter a war zone and get shot down ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Donnerstag 02 Juli 2009 schrieb Marcus Wolschon: Guys... what could it hurt to set up an ipv6.openstreetmap.org with only an -record or with and A -records pointing at the 6to4 -address associated with the current IPv4-addresse(s) to let users and admins experiment without causing any issues with the openstreetmap.org -name? It is automatically anycast-routed to the nearest 6to4 -server. Probably at the ISP, if not then at the nearest IX and it DOES work for the network-load of real servers every day. This is a bad idea. Do it right or do it not. 6to4,Isatap and other tunnels are for stupid clients but not for servers. Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Hi, Thomas Schäfer wrote: This is a bad idea. Do it right or do it not. ... has never been OSM's attitude so far, so why change now. Honestly, I get the feeling you're on a personal crusade here for doing things right which is of no relevance to most of us. You might as well tell us that we must switch all our servers to 100% CO2 neutral operation, or make sure that we have as many women mappers as men, or make sure that all our services are accessible for people with visual impairments. Noble goals all of them. Let's tackle the women issue first, and do IPv6 later. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Donnerstag 02 Juli 2009 schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, Claudius wrote: There are not enough IPv4 adresses for Africa and Latin America already which is why they are assigning IPv6 only already. Now with the new east african internet cable this might lead to even more IPv6 users in potential OSM countries, but... all those IPv6 users cannot reach IPv4 only servers. This is an honest question because I really have not researched the matter: Are there *real* people in developing countries whom one might consider potential mappers who buy Internet access and get IPv6 only with no HTTP access to IPv4 only servers? Would not any provider who cannot offer IPV4 addresses be forced to set up easy-to-use proxy or masquerading systems? It is not only the developing countries. Also mobile-ISP in Europe torture their custumers with NAT, Proxies and so on because of the lack of ipv4 addresses. ipv6-providers have solutions for ipv4-connectivity,otherwise they had no chance to introduce ipv6. (Can they even reach ebay, amazon, cnn, twitter and the lot then?) They can reach the old world - with additional expenses at the network-side. Or is this something rather hypothetical, much like it would theoretically be possible to set up an IPv6-only dialup in Germany if you really, really wanted? I'm trying to find out if IPv6 is something that is pragmatically required, or if this is rather something ideology-based - I read a lot of should in Thomas's statements. My opinion is that if we have reason OSM is a community-project. Therefore I say should. At work I am the chief regarding my part of the network - there is it a must. to believe that, for the forseeable future, even those IPv6-only machines that might exist somewhere will have an effortless way to connect to the IPv4 world (and the only thing to be said against this is that it is technically uncool), then I would not waste a minute trying to be cool. But if there are real-world situations where people who can use the rest of the internet normally turn away from OSM because we don't talk to them, then we should act. Theres is more effort to connect ipv6-only-hosts/nat-ed/proxy-ed Hosts to ipv4 than for us to enable ipv6. It is probably a moot point anyway because, as someone else pointed out, either UCL does it or they don't and we would be the last ones to raise a fuss with them over anything. You don't want realize. I have to accept that. Sorry. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
--- On Thu, 2/7/09, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: This is a bad idea. Do it right or do it not. ... has never been OSM's attitude so far, so why change now. Honestly, I Judging by my experience, there will be most likely be between 0.01% and 1% IPv6 traffic v IPv4 traffic, this of course will depend entirely on the regions most users are in. I don't see any issue in using a tunnel for this kind of thing since the volume of traffic is usually so low. get the feeling you're on a personal crusade here for I get that feeling too, I'm all for IPv6 adoption, and have been hassling various upstream carriers at different times, some of which have added services quietly and not bothered to inform me. It sucks when people turn things into a religious issue and go off on their high horses how everything should be done perfectly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Frederik Ramm schrieb am Donnerstag 02 Juli 2009: Hi, Thomas Schäfer wrote: This is a bad idea. Do it right or do it not. ... has never been OSM's attitude so far, so why change now. Honestly, I get the feeling you're on a personal crusade here for doing things right which is of no relevance to most of us. You might as well tell us that we must switch all our servers to 100% CO2 neutral operation, or make sure that we have as many women mappers as men, or make sure that all our services are accessible for people with visual impairments. Noble goals all of them. Let's tackle the women issue first, and do IPv6 later. Bye Frederik If you don't understand real network issues, than don't make me look silly. Of course, you can starting to solve the other problems you mentioned. I am not an expert in climate, CO2 or braille-terminals. Also I don't know how to increase the woman acceptance factor. But I know what is necessary to keep running the internet. May be i am not very patient. Regards Thomas Schäfer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Donnerstag 02 Juli 2009 schrieb John Smith: get the feeling you're on a personal crusade here for It sucks when people turn things into a religious issue and go off on their high horses how everything should be done perfectly. Your horse isn't high? Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
--- On Thu, 2/7/09, Thomas Schäfer tschae...@t-online.de wrote: Your horse isn't high? I prefer soap boxes personally, they don't tend to shy ;) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:17 AM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Thu, 2/7/09, Thomas Schäfer tschae...@t-online.de wrote: Your horse isn't high? I prefer soap boxes personally, they don't tend to shy ;) or kick... :( k. -- http://short.ie/osminguardian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Donnerstag 02 Juli 2009 schrieb Tom Hughes: We (the admins) are all well aware of this. I personally have had IPv6 on my home network for some years now. That is nice. There are reasons why this is not as simple as it sounds. I know that sounds a bit cryptic but please believe me when I say it is complicated. I don't. There is a reason they only do it for selected networks (and believe me when I say that getting on the list is hard even if you want to). The main reason is that something like 0.1% of people on the internet at large will find themselves unable to connect at all if you just add an record globally at the present time. Those number's are from the research Google conducted by running an experiment on their home page: This are excuses from people fearing to lose one promille of the volume of sales. I thank you for your the factual an honest answer. I will finish my rebellion for now. But be sure, I will ask again. Best regards, Thomas Schäfer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Thomas Schäfer schrieb: It is probably a moot point anyway because, as someone else pointed out, either UCL does it or they don't and we would be the last ones to raise a fuss with them over anything. You don't want realize. I have to accept that. Sorry. OSM is largely a meritocracy (or do-ocracy as someone put it) so, if you can do it without having to pester UCL staff, do it. I gather there are a lot of ways you can do IPv6 without your immediate ISP supporting it (SixXs tunnel for example). So I suggest you plan something out, ask the necessary questions yourself and I guess OSM will use IPv6 in no time. -- Dirk-Lüder Deelkar Kreie Bremen - 53.0901°N 8.7868°E signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Dirk-Lüder Kreie wrote: Thomas Schäfer schrieb: It is probably a moot point anyway because, as someone else pointed out, either UCL does it or they don't and we would be the last ones to raise a fuss with them over anything. You don't want realize. I have to accept that. Sorry. OSM is largely a meritocracy (or do-ocracy as someone put it) so, if you can do it without having to pester UCL staff, do it. With someone at the UCL we tested the most easy way of IPv6, it worked instantly. The static way will be tested if this guy has his own account. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpNEdsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2OUACgjzbaL5yRvBfx2PrwLjmnUy9I M88AniPJG2AW1ELgHYy+G789Une4xVAq =3aXa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Hello, sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. Therefore my appeal: Ask your next admin/provider for ipv6 , make a plan and make the network working, add the to dns an be happy. Solve the little problems . google is one jump ahead (in selected networks): maps.google.com is an alias for maps.l.google.com. maps.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:a003::68 Regards, Thomas Schäfer -- There’s no place like ::1 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 16:43 +0200, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Hello, sorry the theme is for the most of the people off topic. They use the application osm via internet. But the fundament of the internet (its protocol) is changing. Therefore my appeal: Ask your next admin/provider for ipv6 , make a plan and make the network working, add the to dns an be happy. Solve the little problems . google is one jump ahead (in selected networks): maps.google.com is an alias for maps.l.google.com. maps.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:a003::68 Heh well if you insist on viewing osm over ipv6 you can always visit the netherlands: tile.openstreetmap.nl is an alias for productie.openstreetmap.nl. productie.openstreetmap.nl has address 93.186.179.161 productie.openstreetmap.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1 openfietskaart.nl has address 93.186.179.161 openfietskaart.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Thomas Schäfer wrote: Therefore my appeal: Ask your next admin/provider for ipv6 , make a plan and make the network working, add the to dns an be happy. Solve the little problems . Asked and answered. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018603.html -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Jonathan Bennett schrieb am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009: Asked and answered. No, the answer was not satisfying. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-October/018603.html Now we have 2009! Regards, Thomas Schäfer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Thomas Schäfer wrote: No, the answer was not satisfying. What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand? -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
--- On Wed, 1/7/09, Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote: What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand? Have you asked your provider lately about IPv6 address space? Most providers seem to be setting up IPv6 silently and/or more proactive lately when it comes to IPv6. Alternatively you can get a free tunnel from he.net, and he.net routes are in some cases better than IPv4 equivalents... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jonathan Bennett wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: No, the answer was not satisfying. What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand? Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLj1AACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn09CQCfXJi9Lgu0qYSK7IX/TWujsowf 7icAn3eLN0GJ8HPnb359hUJiRQr7ozhm =CtLR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
hi, On Wed, Jul 01, 2009 at 04:20:55PM +, John Smith wrote: Have you asked your provider lately about IPv6 address space? Most providers seem to be setting up IPv6 silently and/or more proactive lately when it comes to IPv6. this is true, completly silent most of them :). Alternatively you can get a free tunnel from he.net, and he.net routes are in some cases better than IPv4 equivalents... don't use tunnels for big services please, it's really REALLY not good idea. -- S pozdravem/Best regards Bc. Ondrej Novy Email: on...@nomi.cz Jabber: on...@njs.netlab.cz ICQ: 115-674-713 Tel/Cell: +420 777 963 207 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb OJ W: Improving the net in other directions, can the OSM servers be made contactable via the I2P network? This is a totaly different problem. Regards, Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Jonathan Bennett schrieb am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009: Thomas Schäfer wrote: No, the answer was not satisfying. What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand? Do you mean this part of the answer from 2007: Well we're largely dependent on UCL (and Bytemark to a lesser extent) being able to allocate us IPv6 addresses for our machines. Have you asked ? (this year, not in the Dark Ages) Nearly all academic/unisversity networks support ipv6 (nl ,be, ch, de, fr, at, cn, jp, pt, edu,) Openstreetmap is a very progressive project and it does not fit, if we are the last member of the ipv6-internet. bytemark has some infos to this topic: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/support/technical_documents/ipv6 Also ucl is involved with projects in ipv6. Make OPENSTREETMAP to the traffic-KILLER-APPLICATION for ipv6 at ucl !! Lets solving the Chicken-and-egg problem in ipv6 by simply doing it. Regards, Thomas Schäfer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Stefan de Konink schrieb am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009: - gpg control packet Jonathan Bennett wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: No, the answer was not satisfying. What part of it's not under our control didn't you understand? Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :) I have fun. I use tunnels (unfortunately) at home/mobile and native connections at work. But a network is more than I . I would like to speak to somebody. e.g. http://sixy.ch Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Sander Hoentjen: Heh well if you insist on viewing osm over ipv6 you can always visit the netherlands: tile.openstreetmap.nl is an alias for productie.openstreetmap.nl. productie.openstreetmap.nl has address 93.186.179.161 productie.openstreetmap.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1 openfietskaart.nl has address 93.186.179.161 openfietskaart.nl has IPv6 address 2a00:d10:101::13:1 Great! It works indeed. Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the UK is not able to serve the world. Regards, Thomas Schäfer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the UK is not able to serve the world. I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap. When the time comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it. Until then, this is all just wasted hot air. Maybe we could talk about mapping instead? -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Russ Nelson: On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the UK is not able to serve the world. I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap. When the time comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it. Until then, this is all just wasted hot air. Maybe we could talk about mapping instead? I don't like talk about mapping. I map. (as far I understand the hot discussed map features.) Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no further discussion about it. Google does it, the dutch project-members do it, but only for their maps. Are you politician? when the time comes . Should I pray for better times? When? When europe has 25% (target ec Ms Reding, end next year) oder when China has no addresses left? We are young, we should drive not be driven. Regards, Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Stefan de Konink wrote: Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :) Great idea! How long do you think it will take you? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Thomas Schäfer wrote: Lets solving the Chicken-and-egg problem in ipv6 by simply doing it. OK -- when are you available to set it up? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Hi, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no further discussion about it. Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what part of OSM would work better tomorrow? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Jonathan Bennett wrote: Stefan de Konink wrote: Set up a SixXS tunnel and have fun :) Great idea! How long do you think it will take you? For me probably about an hour if Jeroen is online ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLw4kACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0BQwCeIFLPLPmcVGhpKWVReD7TdS+C jdoAn02D99kb92067O6FOU071qTncRf9 =o8x5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Frederik Ramm wrote: Thomas Schäfer wrote: Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no further discussion about it. Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what part of OSM would work better tomorrow? - - We could instantly move to distributed tilecaches automatically routed to the closed tileserver available. - - Likewise for a read only api - - For the people that have multicasting available we could create a stream of changesets that everyone that subscribes gets I can think of much more... Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkpLxBYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3nlQCfa5/PvSXTGMJO5ExgjRbB+4KV jtYAn1s3A97DN/Oa4V9EBO6BulyOD+Lp =dlaj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no further discussion about it. Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what part of OSM would work better tomorrow? We ensure that also the first ipv6-only computers can access osm too. It is not the question of to be better. The question of to be. For sotm we have OSI Scholarships program . It is similar with ipv6. If we don't want to lose the last mapper in 'especially developing countries' we should enable ipv6. Regards, Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am Mittwoch 01 Juli 2009 schrieb Jonathan Bennett: Thomas Schäfer wrote: Lets solving the Chicken-and-egg problem in ipv6 by simply doing it. OK -- when are you available to set it up? To enable radvd at the router? To add some /PTR-Records at the DNS? To check the firewall and to check if every service is listening on dualstack? The biggest problem is to ask the networkoperator/admin to request and manage the subnet and its routing. Therefore I don't need to travel to uk. Instead I make a public promise: I will donate 200Euro(http://donate.openstreetmap.org/) January 1st 2010, if all osm-servers accessible via native ipv6 at christmas 2009. Mapping of extra-streets is much more difficult, because of the defintion extra. Regards, Thomas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Am 01.07.2009 22:12, Frederik Ramm: Hi, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Discussions about Ipv6 is not wasted hot air. It is related to osm, because osm should be based on it, but isn't. It shoud simply be done, then is no further discussion about it. Let's be pragmatic here like we usually are. If we were to switch to IPv6 today (which I understand we can't but let's assume we could), what part of OSM would work better tomorrow? Taken from the german 'puter zine c't current edition 14: There are not enough IPv4 adresses for Africa and Latin America already which is why they are assigning IPv6 only already. Now with the new east african internet cable this might lead to even more IPv6 users in potential OSM countries, but... all those IPv6 users cannot reach IPv4 only servers. Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote: On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the UK is not able to serve the world. I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap. When the time comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it. Just for your information, Free (French ISP) is ipv6 ready for 4 millions subscribers in France. It's not because other ISP can't assume their function or are technologicaly late that OSM should not have the lead here And..; after all, isn't it the wealth of everey free/community/open project to provide a solution even if there is only one person who need it ? So... the fact is... some guys can help with that, me, Thomas, how could we manage in having a v6 stack/resolv ? Maybe this is the wrong place to debate on that but I don't know if there is a more appropriate list... maybe talk-transithttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transitcould be the noc list too ? Until then, this is all just wasted hot air. Maybe we could talk about mapping instead? -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : ste...@jabber.fr 0x39494CCB ste...@le-roux.info 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] AAAA openstreetmap still doesn't use ipv6
Guys... what could it hurt to set up an ipv6.openstreetmap.org with only an -record or with and A -records pointing at the 6to4 -address associated with the current IPv4-addresse(s) to let users and admins experiment without causing any issues with the openstreetmap.org -name? It is automatically anycast-routed to the nearest 6to4 -server. Probably at the ISP, if not then at the nearest IX and it DOES work for the network-load of real servers every day. Marcus On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Steven Le Rouxste...@le-roux.info wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote: On Jul 1, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Thomas Schäfer wrote: Maybe we should move the OSM-servers to the netherlands, because the UK is not able to serve the world. I appreciate your enthusiasm for IPv6, Thomas, but this topic is essentially completely unrelated to OpenStreetMap. When the time comes at UCL to move to IPv6, they will, and OSM will move with it. Just for your information, Free (French ISP) is ipv6 ready for 4 millions subscribers in France. It's not because other ISP can't assume their function or are technologicaly late that OSM should not have the lead here And..; after all, isn't it the wealth of everey free/community/open project to provide a solution even if there is only one person who need it ? So... the fact is... some guys can help with that, me, Thomas, how could we manage in having a v6 stack/resolv ? Maybe this is the wrong place to debate on that but I don't know if there is a more appropriate list... maybe talk-transit could be the noc list too ? Until then, this is all just wasted hot air. Maybe we could talk about mapping instead? -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : ste...@jabber.fr 0x39494CCB ste...@le-roux.info 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
