Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
On Sunday 10 May 2015, Mike Thompson wrote: I am considering an edit involving natural=coastline involving the Great Lakes that are shared between the US and Canada. This has been discussed on the Talk-US and Talk-Ca lists and there have been no objections to date. As you know the Great Lakes have a right of continuance in being tagged as coastline however you should keep in mind that not having a multipolygon relation tagged natural=water representing these lakes also has disadvantages, and having relations/nodes tagged place=sea or place=lake is awkward and you can't really expect geocoders, renderers and other programs to make a special case here. By the way even if the lakes are tagged as coastline tagging the US-Canada boundary within the lakes maritime=yes is not correct. Technical advice is welcome, e.g. how to easily find island ways that go clockwise (water on the left) Yes, that's a tricky one - i don't think there are that many islands not yet tagged coastline though. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.de wrote: On Sunday 10 May 2015, Mike Thompson wrote: I am considering an edit involving natural=coastline involving the Great Lakes that are shared between the US and Canada. This has been discussed on the Talk-US and Talk-Ca lists and there have been no objections to date. As you know the Great Lakes have a right of continuance in being tagged as coastline however you should keep in mind that not having a multipolygon relation tagged natural=water representing these lakes also has disadvantages, and having relations/nodes tagged place=sea or place=lake is awkward and you can't really expect geocoders, renderers and other programs to make a special case here. I don't have a strong preference for how they are represented (natural=coastline or natural=water), but I believe the mix and incomplete implementation of the two approaches is causing rendering issues. Technical advice is welcome, e.g. how to easily find island ways that go clockwise (water on the left) Yes, that's a tricky one - i don't think there are that many islands not yet tagged coastline though. I have seen a number of them on the Canadian side. Regardless of the number, finding and editing all of them is going to be tedious and error prone without a way to query for them. I can probably write something that will operate on the file JOSM downloads that will check to make sure I have fixed them all, but would like to leverage existing code as much as possible. By the way even if the lakes are tagged as coastline tagging the US-Canada boundary within the lakes maritime=yes is not correct. Good to know. There actually appears to be two sets of ways in that area, one set is part of the Canadian Lake Superior relation, and the other part of the Canadian and US boundary relations. Mike Thompson ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
...And this may be different to the limit of government jurisdiction. In the UK, local authorities' jurisdiction goes (normally) to MLWS (mean low water - spring tides), which is beyond the MHWS coastline. Why am I saying this? Please don't use the same way in both the coastline and the admin boundary, unless you are absolutely sure they coincide by definition (not by coincidence). //colin On 2015-05-11 19:39, Malcolm Herring wrote: On 11/05/2015 18:01, pmailkeey . wrote: Where should the coastline be ? HWM, LWM or MW. What about islands that only appear at low tide ! The most common definition is mean high water - spring tides (MHWS) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
Where should the coastline be ? HWM, LWM or MW. What about islands that only appear at low tide ! On 11 May 2015 at 17:47, Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.de wrote: On Monday 11 May 2015, Mike Thompson wrote: I don't have a strong preference for how they are represented (natural=coastline or natural=water), but I believe the mix and incomplete implementation of the two approaches is causing rendering issues. At least the OSM standard style does not have a problem with having both coastline and a water multipolygon - the Caspian Sea, Lake Ladoga and Lake Onega also all have multipolygon relations tagged natural=water. The 'half the lake' relation and missing inner rings of course call for trouble. I have seen a number of them on the Canadian side. Regardless of the number, finding and editing all of them is going to be tedious and error prone without a way to query for them. I can probably write something that will operate on the file JOSM downloads that will check to make sure I have fixed them all, but would like to leverage existing code as much as possible. You probably could save the islands after you tagged them as coastline from JOSM (only the islands) and run them through osmcoastline as if they were the only land on earth and see if there are any errors/warnings. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
On Monday 11 May 2015, Mike Thompson wrote: I don't have a strong preference for how they are represented (natural=coastline or natural=water), but I believe the mix and incomplete implementation of the two approaches is causing rendering issues. At least the OSM standard style does not have a problem with having both coastline and a water multipolygon - the Caspian Sea, Lake Ladoga and Lake Onega also all have multipolygon relations tagged natural=water. The 'half the lake' relation and missing inner rings of course call for trouble. I have seen a number of them on the Canadian side. Regardless of the number, finding and editing all of them is going to be tedious and error prone without a way to query for them. I can probably write something that will operate on the file JOSM downloads that will check to make sure I have fixed them all, but would like to leverage existing code as much as possible. You probably could save the islands after you tagged them as coastline from JOSM (only the islands) and run them through osmcoastline as if they were the only land on earth and see if there are any errors/warnings. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
On 11/05/2015 18:01, pmailkeey . wrote: Where should the coastline be ? HWM, LWM or MW. What about islands that only appear at low tide ! The most common definition is mean high water - spring tides (MHWS) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
On Sunday 10 May 2015, Jochen Topf wrote: For about 10 days the coastline has been broken and no updates have been going through. This is largely due to some broken mapping in North America where coastlines overlap I fixed the error in the Laguna Madre - making it a multipolygon. There is however still a lot of strange stuff with the mapping of the various lagoons and inlets along the gulf coast - the US community should have a more thorough look there and make some decisions about sensible divisions between the different waterbodies. And when you implement that be careful with the coastline please. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
On Sunday 10 May 2015, Jochen Topf wrote: For about 10 days the coastline has been broken and no updates have been going through. This is largely due to some broken mapping in North America where coastlines overlap I fixed the error in the Laguna Madre - making it a multipolygon. There is however still a lot of strange stuff with the mapping of the various lagoons and inlets along the gulf coast - the US community should have a more thorough look there and make some decisions about sensible divisions between the different waterbodies. And when you implement that be careful with the coastline please. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
I am considering an edit involving natural=coastline involving the Great Lakes that are shared between the US and Canada. This has been discussed on the Talk-US and Talk-Ca lists and there have been no objections to date. Background: Lake Superior is represented both with individual ways tagged natural=coastline (although not all islands have their ways tagged natural=coastline), as well as *two* multipolygon relations tagged natural=water (this tag has been removed from the one relation already) with some islands members having a role of inner. The first (for the purpose of the discussion) relation seems to include the entire outline of the lake, but not all of the islands, particularly on the Canadian side. The second includes only the outline of the lake on the Canadian side, and the part of the border between the US and Canada that runs through the lake. It appears that this second relation does include all, or nearly all, of the islands on the Canadian side. Representing the lake and its islands in these multiple manners seems to cause rendering issues. Proposed Course of action. 1) Download Canadian Lake Superior relation and all its members to JOSM. 2) Make sure every individual member way is tagged natural=coastline (except the way(s) that form the boundary between Canada and the US. 3) Make sure every individual way has land on the left. (except the US Canadian border that runs through the lake). 4) Remove natural=water from the Canadian relation 5) Upload. Later 6) Make sure all members of the Canadian relation appear in the overall relation (or that their purpose is filled my some other member(s) of the overall relation. 7) Delete the Canadian relation. Comments are welcome. Technical advice is welcome, e.g. how to easily find island ways that go clockwise (water on the left) Mike (user: tekim) On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Christoph Hormann chris_horm...@gmx.de wrote: On Sunday 10 May 2015, Jochen Topf wrote: Hi! For about 10 days the coastline has been broken and no updates have been going through. This is largely due to some broken mapping in North America where coastlines overlap and some features have been tagged both as coastline and waterways, which doesn't make any sense at all. Note overlaps between waterway=riverbank areas and the coastline are generally not an issue and are also not really that uncommon (classic and long term case for that it the Elbe in northern Germany) - they of course complicate things a bit and can be misleading for mappers. Please, everybody: If you are doing something with the coastlines, take extra care. Coastlines are fragile, have special taggging rules unlike anything else in OSM and if you break them in only one place, chances are coastlines updates for the whole world will stop! Indeed. And if you have a complex coastline situation like when you need to add or remove the coastline tag to/from a larger water area and have not done something like this before just leave the coastline mapping as it is and add a fixme tag indicating what should be changed and place a note asking for help doing that. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Broken coastline
Hi! For about 10 days the coastline has been broken and no updates have been going through. This is largely due to some broken mapping in North America where coastlines overlap and some features have been tagged both as coastline and waterways, which doesn't make any sense at all. Please whoever has been working on this read up on how coastlines are supposed to be tagged at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural=coastline and fix this. Please, everybody: If you are doing something with the coastlines, take extra care. Coastlines are fragile, have special taggging rules unlike anything else in OSM and if you break them in only one place, chances are coastlines updates for the whole world will stop! Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.jochentopf.com/ +49-351-31778688 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken coastline
On Sunday 10 May 2015, Jochen Topf wrote: Hi! For about 10 days the coastline has been broken and no updates have been going through. This is largely due to some broken mapping in North America where coastlines overlap and some features have been tagged both as coastline and waterways, which doesn't make any sense at all. Note overlaps between waterway=riverbank areas and the coastline are generally not an issue and are also not really that uncommon (classic and long term case for that it the Elbe in northern Germany) - they of course complicate things a bit and can be misleading for mappers. Please, everybody: If you are doing something with the coastlines, take extra care. Coastlines are fragile, have special taggging rules unlike anything else in OSM and if you break them in only one place, chances are coastlines updates for the whole world will stop! Indeed. And if you have a complex coastline situation like when you need to add or remove the coastline tag to/from a larger water area and have not done something like this before just leave the coastline mapping as it is and add a fixme tag indicating what should be changed and place a note asking for help doing that. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken Coastline?
I changed the direction of cockshoot broad (it was indeed spun backwards) but couldn't fin anything wrong with the coastline - possibly someone had already fixed it, possibly a bad tile temporarily? anyway, seems ok now. Thanks, all! Tristan 2008/10/22 Rob Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tristan Scott wrote the following on 20/10/2008 04:27: I've modded the coastline here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.7145lon=1.695zoom=14layers=0B00FTTT And yet all I've done is move about 4 points in a bit, and add a section of beach where I went for a walk. And now some of the new tiles in osmarender seem to have gone blue... I can't see what I've got wrong. Can someone have a squint and see if there's something wrong? (I've never edited a coastline before, so don't know how they work) Not sure if anyone else has made changes since your email but I just had a look and everything looked fine so I re-rendered the problem tile and everything looks good again. The re-render covers zoom 12 -17, it may be a few days before lower zooms are updated. rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services www.yvts.co.uk 07837 205829 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Broken Coastline?
Tristan Scott wrote the following on 20/10/2008 04:27: I've modded the coastline here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.7145lon=1.695zoom=14layers=0B00FTTT And yet all I've done is move about 4 points in a bit, and add a section of beach where I went for a walk. And now some of the new tiles in osmarender seem to have gone blue... I can't see what I've got wrong. Can someone have a squint and see if there's something wrong? (I've never edited a coastline before, so don't know how they work) Not sure if anyone else has made changes since your email but I just had a look and everything looked fine so I re-rendered the problem tile and everything looks good again. The re-render covers zoom 12 -17, it may be a few days before lower zooms are updated. rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Broken Coastline?
I've modded the coastline here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.7145lon=1.695zoom=14layers=0B00FTTT And yet all I've done is move about 4 points in a bit, and add a section of beach where I went for a walk. And now some of the new tiles in osmarender seem to have gone blue... I can't see what I've got wrong. Can someone have a squint and see if there's something wrong? (I've never edited a coastline before, so don't know how they work) Thanks -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services www.yvts.co.uk 07837 205829 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
