Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Just a further heads up that this user appears to have posted to SABRE asking for a way to edit OSM privately. Any suggestions I should pass on to him? It should keep him from vandalising live data if it was possible. Just a bit of a heads up really. I've just spotted some random changing of road classificaions from old friend RR8 again. Some are definitely wrong. Can people check local edits to check to see if anything has been incorrectly changed? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Is there any simple way (i.e. not involving setting up your own Mapnik server) to test Mapnik rendering locally, without polluting OSM, and perhaps more importantly, without waiting an hour or more to see your update. I'm working on a Virtual-Box image with a complete set up rendering stack to play with your own rendering rules and custom rendering styles. You'll be able to just do # osm-load --api 8.1098,49.7439,8.2382,49.8316 # osm-render --bbox 8.1098,49.7439,8.2382,49.8316 or for bigger areas # osm-load --bzip2-file germany.osm.bz2 stay tuned! Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Just a further heads up that this user appears to have posted to SABRE asking for a way to edit OSM privately. Any suggestions I should pass on to him? It should keep him from vandalising live data if it was possible. http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1t=23677 Jeni http://blog.jennystuff.com Rob wrote: Thomas Wood wrote: Hi list, Attention was drawn to the OSM user RR8 last night on IRC. It appears that they have been producing /apparently/ deconstructive edits at a high frequency since late Saturday evening (server time). Edits primarily are the reclassification of highways to a different level. This has occured frequently in the East Midlands (often including a change of reference number that cannot be confirmed from other sources), places in Ireland where under-construction motorways have been marked as opened, and a few reclassifications elsewhere, most notably Iceland. The edits appear to look constructive, but are more likely to be destructive. Ideally, someone local to the areas in question should check a few of the changes, or we could get people from the mailing list to consider the edits as a whole to decide what's to be done about them. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RR8/edits Was just looking at the stats report and happened to notice this account is editing again after a 15 day quite period. Not checked the regions or validity at all yet but given the past history I though I would give a heads up. rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/10/5 Jennifer Campbell jenuk1...@googlemail.com: Just a further heads up that this user appears to have posted to SABRE asking for a way to edit OSM privately. Any suggestions I should pass on to him? It should keep him from vandalising live data if it was possible. http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1t=23677 If it is a genuine concern about being abused for making mistakes the people abusing people should be dealt with there is no reason for it, I belive someone suggested a more formal mentoring arrangement, which would probably deal with this better than making edits to a dummy system just to see how things will render. For people with good reason to be making dummy edits the dev system can do this and will also render pretty maps too. http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On Mon, 2009-10-05 at 01:15 +1000, John Smith wrote: For people with good reason to be making dummy edits the dev system can do this and will also render pretty maps too. http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Half correct. It's not yet set up for rendering. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, 2009-10-05 at 01:15 +1000, John Smith wrote: For people with good reason to be making dummy edits the dev system can do this and will also render pretty maps too. http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/ Half correct. It's not yet set up for rendering. Is there any simple way (i.e. not involving setting up your own Mapnik server) to test Mapnik rendering locally, without polluting OSM, and perhaps more importantly, without waiting an hour or more to see your update. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/10/4 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: If it is a genuine concern about being abused for making mistakes the people abusing people should be dealt with there is no reason for it, I'm not sure if you followed the original incident. This was not a case of an inexperienced mapper making some mistakes while trying to map reality. This is a user who appears to have used the tools in an accomplished way to map a fantasy road network in several different countries, ignoring all contact received from other mappers. And no, I didn't abuse him for it, tempted though I was. Incidentally, even though I'm still smarting from this guy's idiocy, I do think it would be good for us to have a play area allowing people to edit and render what-if maps. Our tools are well-suited to this and it's a community of users who may also be prepared to do real mapping. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/10/5 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Is there any simple way (i.e. not involving setting up your own Mapnik server) to test Mapnik rendering locally, without polluting OSM, and perhaps more importantly, without waiting an hour or more to see your update. I thought the dev system was setup to do this, but it doesn't seem to be the case. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-ph] to anthony balico (Re: please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries)))
anthony, (sending this to the talk-ph list because your mail server tagged my message as spam) I see you have been editing again. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits Your edits seems valid (according to your changeset comment), however, I appeal that you first remove all your previous edits coming from roadguide.ph data. I offered help in removing your edits, but you have not answered any of my messages. Some of us are cleaning your previous edits which should have been devoted to more worthwhile mapping session. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/edits A collaborative volunteer project (like osm) revolves around trust, how can we respect your contributions if you haven't redeemed yourself by cleaning your previous mistakes? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] to anthony balico (Re: please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries)))
Maning, To Anthony's credit, he has been deleting some of his contributions that were sourced from roadguide.ph. An example is this changeset from yesterday: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2542850 Eugene On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 7:06 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: anthony, (sending this to the talk-ph list because your mail server tagged my message as spam) I see you have been editing again. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits Your edits seems valid (according to your changeset comment), however, I appeal that you first remove all your previous edits coming from roadguide.ph data. I offered help in removing your edits, but you have not answered any of my messages. Some of us are cleaning your previous edits which should have been devoted to more worthwhile mapping session. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/edits A collaborative volunteer project (like osm) revolves around trust, how can we respect your contributions if you haven't redeemed yourself by cleaning your previous mistakes? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] to anthony balico (Re: please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries)))
Good to know that Eugene. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Maning, To Anthony's credit, he has been deleting some of his contributions that were sourced from roadguide.ph. An example is this changeset from yesterday: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2542850 Eugene On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 7:06 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: anthony, (sending this to the talk-ph list because your mail server tagged my message as spam) I see you have been editing again. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits Your edits seems valid (according to your changeset comment), however, I appeal that you first remove all your previous edits coming from roadguide.ph data. I offered help in removing your edits, but you have not answered any of my messages. Some of us are cleaning your previous edits which should have been devoted to more worthwhile mapping session. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/edits A collaborative volunteer project (like osm) revolves around trust, how can we respect your contributions if you haven't redeemed yourself by cleaning your previous mistakes? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries))
Regarding cleaning up and/or removing some tainted data, it could be a tricky one. I did some cleanup in Ashton Fields in Calamba (and added landuse and a road stub for future reference); Ponte Verde near the STAR tollway interchange in Santo Tomas (where there used to be some edits from maning); most of downtown Tiaong and the nearby market area (which can be recovered by making an actual GPS trace in the area, more if necessary); Dolores, Quezon (where I could go and make some GPS traces, if my schedule isn't that busy); and the Avida residences in the Tayabas/Lucena boundary area (someone had previously made an edit over the area). I also made some cleanup in the Bicol area - along the stretch of the Pan-Philippine Highway (specifically in Naga City, where it is hard to edit when using the online editor - epecially if one's computer is very slow and 8 years old and above), and some places in Albay. The problem with some of Anthony's edits is that they have too many nodes in a certain way, which is probably bad for routing. The problem with some of Deck's edits is that some of the edits he made were probably done previously by other contributors (which is the other problem caused by some of Anthony's edits). If we are to activiate the revert script on those edits, madadamay ang ibang mga edits (other edits will be affected by it). For me, It would be best to retrace, remove or transfer tags, then delete the questionable nodes and ways, if there were some previous edits placed in that area, so that the older (and probably less tainted) edits will be there, although under a new node/way identification number. BTW, we're lucky that we don't have to deal with people like RR8. Instead, all we need now is some understanding and consensus. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries))
BTW, we're lucky that we don't have to deal with people like RR8. Instead, all we need now is some understanding and consensus. Yep, the RR8 issue seems to be a deliberate vandalism. I don't think this is the same situation with deck and anthony's edits. Overeagerness maybe the word. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Thomas Wood wrote: Hi list, Attention was drawn to the OSM user RR8 last night on IRC. It appears that they have been producing /apparently/ deconstructive edits at a high frequency since late Saturday evening (server time). Edits primarily are the reclassification of highways to a different level. This has occured frequently in the East Midlands (often including a change of reference number that cannot be confirmed from other sources), places in Ireland where under-construction motorways have been marked as opened, and a few reclassifications elsewhere, most notably Iceland. The edits appear to look constructive, but are more likely to be destructive. Ideally, someone local to the areas in question should check a few of the changes, or we could get people from the mailing list to consider the edits as a whole to decide what's to be done about them. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RR8/edits Was just looking at the stats report and happened to notice this account is editing again after a 15 day quite period. Not checked the regions or validity at all yet but given the past history I though I would give a heads up. rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Rob wrote: Was just looking at the stats report and happened to notice this account is editing again after a 15 day quite period. Not checked the regions or validity at all yet but given the past history I though I would give a heads up. Thanks for that - it's been mentioned on Talk-GB (also also on IRC). The last 3 days edits do look constructive (and restricted to North Nottinghamshire in England) - the two road class changes that I was able to check by driving down there were correct; others look plausible. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-ph] please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries))
Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries))
The problem is that it's hard to determine which are the edits worth keeping and which are not. I would assume that the edits that appear where there is Yahoo! imagery is valid and those outside are not. Correct. That's I why I am hesitant to do massive revertion (using the revert.pl tool). It is possible we break other people's edits when we do automatic revertion. I suggest we use humans to do the reverts. He did admitted it came from roadguide.ph so there is no question that his edits are not allowed in OSM. Even if there is yahoo! imagery, I believe we can re-trace them using purely yahoo! imagery. Also, we still have those edits from user hellodeck that appear to be traced from Google Maps still lingering in the database. I have no concrete proof (user admission) this came from google imagery (although I highly suspect it is). If proven, I suggest we remove this one as well. Regards, Eugene On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries))
Maybe on the Metro-manila day we are having those with out cars could setup shop somewhere and work on things like this for you guys, then when you get back its just a matter of uploading the new data.. It gives me something to do within the OSM as i would like to contribute but i have not been so far 100% successful, done some but not much.. Regards.. Michael Also i would like to get some good photos of the lot of you to put up on the web so as we all can acknowledge you guys, that have done a fantastic job so far.. And yes i still have a GPS unit which i will get to maning ASAP so it can be used more effectively.. On Friday 18 September 2009 11:17:46 am maning sambale wrote: The problem is that it's hard to determine which are the edits worth keeping and which are not. I would assume that the edits that appear where there is Yahoo! imagery is valid and those outside are not. Correct. That's I why I am hesitant to do massive revertion (using the revert.pl tool). It is possible we break other people's edits when we do automatic revertion. I suggest we use humans to do the reverts. He did admitted it came from roadguide.ph so there is no question that his edits are not allowed in OSM. Even if there is yahoo! imagery, I believe we can re-trace them using purely yahoo! imagery. Also, we still have those edits from user hellodeck that appear to be traced from Google Maps still lingering in the database. I have no concrete proof (user admission) this came from google imagery (although I highly suspect it is). If proven, I suggest we remove this one as well. Regards, Eugene On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:35 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I mentioned this issue already to the talk-ph For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers =B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Basically, Anthony Balico has been adding data coming from roadguide.ph. I flagged his attention over this and he has stopped doing it and started reverting his edits (since August 17, 2009). see the log of his edits here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/edits The problem is, it's over a month now and this user haven't removed everything. I am concerned because the longer the data stays in the database the more difficult it is to remove. May I request everyone to help anthony remove the data he added since april 15 and earlier. He added more data after april 15, I am assuming this data didn't come from roadguide already because he has traces uploaded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces Normally I encourage newbies to correct their own mistakes (I send them messages provately) and don't pass the burden to others. However, anthony's contributions is so extensive and I believe this requires special attention to the rest of group. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries))
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Michael Cole colemic...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe on the Metro-manila day we are having those with out cars could setup shop somewhere and work on things like this for you guys, then when you get back its just a matter of uploading the new data.. Sorry. I don't get this message :) Please expound. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] please revert this user's edit (Re: Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries))
Ahh a clean-up party? I get it now. Sounds good to me. On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Michael Cole colemic...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 18 September 2009 11:34:39 am maning sambale wrote: On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Michael Cole colemic...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe on the Metro-manila day we are having those with out cars could setup shop somewhere and work on things like this for you guys, then when you get back its just a matter of uploading the new data.. Sorry. I don't get this message :) Please expound. I dont have a car so the day your having to go out and get more traces, i can sit down in a starbucks or somewhere and remove the unwanted edits that the people need help on, At least then people like me can go out on the day and help but not actually be getting traces but instead be cleaning up the map together. Regards.. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Tom Hughes wrote: On 01/09/09 16:23, Lester Caine wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing, although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does hint at the fact that it has been 'de-truncked' and that only some green signs remain? I suspect whoever wrote that doesn't understand that de-trunking does not cause it to stop being a primary route. It may well have (indeed almost certainly has) been de-trunked but it is probably still a primary route which means it will have green signs. Tom In Scotland, Primary does mean Trunk. Jenny ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Pierenpier...@gmail.com wrote: And yes, I'm expecting fast reactions from the admins You're a gold-level member of the OSMF, right? Y'know, the level that means your annual membership fee is the same cost as a full time admin to do your beck and call, right? Don't speak like that... You can't resume any personal investment only based on money. Pieren is a great contributor, helping newbies on the french list, active on discution about all corner of the project, and even the developper of the Cadastre plugin for JOSM. As you are capitalizing all about money... time is money right ? I guess he is a diamond-level contributor... And what.. If you are not member of OSMF, you are not contributing to the project and you can't tell what you think ? Didn't think so. until a real revert in one click is possible from the interface like in wikipedia. You'll be waiting a loonnngg time for that then. Unless you have some l33t h4x0rz skills you're willing to share? He has. Using it to help mapping from French Cadastre... After all, everyone else who's worked on revert code has consistently said on these mailing lists oh yeah, a revert button would be trivial, I'll do it tomorrow. Oh, wait, no we didn't. This is not meaning we won't have one soon. I understand what it's like dealing with vandals, so I know why your annoyed. But please don't start demanding stuff on the mailing lists from other volunteers, admins or not, it's not going to get anything solved. Like under-estimating others... it's an open-crowd-project, every one can contribute, even by just clues or ideas. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : ste...@jabber.fr 0x39494CCB ste...@le-roux.info 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Jennifer Campbell wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: On 01/09/09 16:23, Lester Caine wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing, although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does hint at the fact that it has been 'de-truncked' and that only some green signs remain? I suspect whoever wrote that doesn't understand that de-trunking does not cause it to stop being a primary route. It may well have (indeed almost certainly has) been de-trunked but it is probably still a primary route which means it will have green signs. Tom In Scotland, Primary does mean Trunk. Jenny - even in Scotland the Trunk routes are maintained by a central contract while Primary routes are now maintained by the local authorities. Some routes that were ORIGINALLY 'primary' have been declassified so that the local authorities are not required to maintain them to the same standard as required for a Primary/Trunk route. OSM still works to the format when ALL primary routes were maintained by central government and were identified by their 'green' Trunk route designation ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Tom Hughes schrieb: On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. As an admin with the technical ability to do these things I'm perfectly capable of reacting quickly once I believe I have legitimate authority to act. I do not however plan to appoint myself as judge, jury and executioner in these matters. But Dermot McNally already pointed out that this *is* vandalism, at least in Ireland: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-September/041412.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-September/041397.html What more do you want? A Plane-Ticket to fly there and check for yourself? Sorry for that.. I'm seeing people doing investigation, finding things are going mad, reporting this - and getting ignored. What we are lacking is not people to take action, but mechanisms and people to quickly investigate and make decisions on what action should be take in an appropriate transparent, democratic and legitimate manner. Just as e.g. Dermot McNally did. A group of people demanding that something by done on a mailing list does not, in my mind, constitute a legitimate authority for me to act. What/Who does constitute a legitimate authority for you? Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 02/09/09 18:51, Peter Körner wrote: Tom Hughes schrieb: On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. As an admin with the technical ability to do these things I'm perfectly capable of reacting quickly once I believe I have legitimate authority to act. I do not however plan to appoint myself as judge, jury and executioner in these matters. But Dermot McNally already pointed out that this *is* vandalism, at least in Ireland: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-September/041412.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-September/041397.html What more do you want? A Plane-Ticket to fly there and check for yourself? Sorry for that.. I'm seeing people doing investigation, finding things are going mad, reporting this - and getting ignored. Not one single person has reported it to the Data Working Group as suggested by the wiki page that has already been referred to. What we are lacking is not people to take action, but mechanisms and people to quickly investigate and make decisions on what action should be take in an appropriate transparent, democratic and legitimate manner. Just as e.g. Dermot McNally did. Yes, but who appointed him as the arbiter? Whoever is making the decision needs to be selected by and accountable to the community in some way, not self-appointed. A group of people demanding that something by done on a mailing list does not, in my mind, constitute a legitimate authority for me to act. What/Who does constitute a legitimate authority for you? Well that's the problem - the best thing we have at the moment is the foundation and it's working groups. In this case the Data Working Group is the appropriate one I guess. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Well that's the problem - the best thing we have at the moment is the foundation and it's working groups. In this case the Data Working Group is the appropriate one I guess. I think a crowdsourced approach against vandalism would scale better than dedicated working-groups. See my Brainstorming on a tool for that. Sorry for my rough tone. I just was a little frustrated as I couldn't find my bottle opener. Now, with a cool beer to my right, i's much better. Btw. this would be a good strategy for RR8, too ;) Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/9/2 Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu: Yes, but who appointed him as the arbiter? Whoever is making the decision needs to be selected by and accountable to the community in some way, not self-appointed. FFS Tom, you can't have it both ways. I understand and respect that you don't want the final decision resting, by default, with you as the man with the stick. This being so, you have to be prepared to assess the claims of individual mappers on their merits, having regard to the facts. I don't expect you to have prior knowledge of my body of work (and IMHO it's extensive), but a number of members of what is a fairly small Irish community also weighed in. We all presented the facts. And TBH, in the area I map, I _am_ self-appointed as a quality champion, such is the OSM just-do-it culture. I think the problem here is what looks to Joe mapper like mixed messages. The message that we should as much as possible fix vandalism ourselves at local level tells us that we shouldn't expect central intervention. The fact that, say, a copyright violator is hit with the stick of ban suggests OTOH that gross breaches of how-it-should-be-done _will_ be centrally sanctioned. And not enough of us have considered where the dividing line between the two should lie. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 02/09/09 19:55, Dermot McNally wrote: 2009/9/2 Tom Hughest...@compton.nu: Yes, but who appointed him as the arbiter? Whoever is making the decision needs to be selected by and accountable to the community in some way, not self-appointed. FFS Tom, you can't have it both ways. I understand and respect that you don't want the final decision resting, by default, with you as the man with the stick. This being so, you have to be prepared to assess the claims of individual mappers on their merits, having regard to the facts. I absolutely am not going to get involved in evaluating the claims of individual mappers. Both because it would be an inappropriate conflict of interest and because I don't have the time. If the community wants to appoint somebody to do that then that's fine and I will be happy to act on that person's decision. I would not personally vote for such a system however. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Dermot McNally wrote: FFS Tom, you can't have it both ways. I understand and respect that you don't want the final decision resting, by default, with you as the man with the stick. This being so, you have to be prepared to assess the claims of individual mappers on their merits, having regard to the facts. No. The you in you have to be prepared to assess is not Tom, it's OSMF. OSMF is the nearest to a community-appointed arbiter that we have. In particular, it's OSMF's Data Working Group: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group There are two questions re: RR8; should his edits be reverted? and should he be banned?. We have unanimous agreement on the former, we have tools to do it and people prepared to use them, so all it needs is someone, anyone, to do it. You have suggested that in Ireland that's already happened, so that's good. (Reverts aren't really an issue, to be honest. Many of us do them every day on an individual level - just clearing up a daft merge, an accidental deletion, or a confused mistagging. I didn't ask the mailing list for approval to revert the city of Bournemouth Square [sic] this morning, or to reinstate NCN6 into Kendal yesterday, and so on. The problem comes from edit wars, i.e. when a revert is followed by a reinstatement, and so on. We have no indication that RR8 is engaging in an edit war.) The second question, that of banning the user, is more difficult. In some cases it's probably justified - generally when the user is damaging the map (large-scale vandalism, infringement, edit war) on an ongoing basis, and has not responded satisfactorily to attempts to get in touch and resolve the situation. But this really has to be where OSMF makes the decision, and as Tom posted earlier, no-one affected by RR8's edits appears to have contacted OSMF on the issue yet. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/RR8---Possible-International-Vandal-%28assistance-required-in-various-countries%29-tp25230343p25264114.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/9/2 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: The you in you have to be prepared to assess is not Tom, it's OSMF. OSMF is the nearest to a community-appointed arbiter that we have. In particular, it's OSMF's Data Working Group: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group Richard - yes, this is a fair catch. A better way to express it would be there has to be a 'you' that can assess (Reverts aren't really an issue, to be honest. Many of us do them every day on an individual level - just clearing up a daft merge, an accidental deletion, or a confused mistagging. I didn't ask the mailing list for approval to revert the city of Bournemouth Square [sic] this morning, or to reinstate NCN6 into Kendal yesterday, and so on. The problem comes from edit wars, i.e. when a revert is followed by a reinstatement, and so on. We have no indication that RR8 is engaging in an edit war.) This is also true, though on his form, we can expect him to continue making daft edits. Not an edit war, but it shares with edit wars the prospect of continued damage. The second question, that of banning the user, is more difficult. In some cases it's probably justified - generally when the user is damaging the map (large-scale vandalism, infringement, edit war) on an ongoing basis, and has not responded satisfactorily to attempts to get in touch and resolve the situation. But this really has to be where OSMF makes the decision, and as Tom posted earlier, no-one affected by RR8's edits appears to have contacted OSMF on the issue yet. This is also fair. In OSM we get over-used to the fact that The Major Players are reading what goes down on the lists or IRC. Which is not reasonable. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Clifford Nolan wrote: Please stop this person from doing any more damage. RR8 is still editing as I write - can the account be suspended a.s.a.p., please? I was going to say - seconded but I think that some of the changes just need cross referencing. 2326103 declassifies the A816 from a trunk route to a primary route which CURRENTLY is probably correct ... except - I think that it would be useful to designate http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk as a cross reference for the trunk and primary designations - which then falls flat on it's face since the 'green' routes are classified as 'primary' as opposed to trunk but the A816 is 'non-primary' Without a clean method of identification some of these aspects are subject to personal interpretation, but saber-roads would seem to provide a clean list of Motorway - Green Route - Other A roads and B roads - which fits nicely with the M,T,P and S levels on OSM. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 09:16, Lester Caine wrote: 2326103 declassifies the A816 from a trunk route to a primary route which CURRENTLY is probably correct ... except - I think that it would be useful to designate http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk as a cross reference for the trunk and primary designations - which then falls flat on it's face since the 'green' routes are classified as 'primary' as opposed to trunk but the A816 is 'non-primary' Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Certainly four segments of the A816 are listed in the data Morwen got from the DfT describing the primary route network. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 10:13, Lester Caine wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: On 01/09/09 09:16, Lester Caine wrote: 2326103 declassifies the A816 from a trunk route to a primary route which CURRENTLY is probably correct ... except - I think that it would be useful to designate http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk as a cross reference for the trunk and primary designations - which then falls flat on it's face since the 'green' routes are classified as 'primary' as opposed to trunk but the A816 is 'non-primary' Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Certainly four segments of the A816 are listed in the data Morwen got from the DfT describing the primary route network. I think that probably highlights the point - what is the best REFERENCE for this information? Well in the absence of the DfT information, which was obtained under FOIA and is still copyright so can't be generally passed out, looking at the signs to see if they are white or green is the best solution! Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Tom Hughes wrote: On 01/09/09 09:16, Lester Caine wrote: 2326103 declassifies the A816 from a trunk route to a primary route which CURRENTLY is probably correct ... except - I think that it would be useful to designate http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk as a cross reference for the trunk and primary designations - which then falls flat on it's face since the 'green' routes are classified as 'primary' as opposed to trunk but the A816 is 'non-primary' Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Certainly four segments of the A816 are listed in the data Morwen got from the DfT describing the primary route network. I think that probably highlights the point - what is the best REFERENCE for this information? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Tom Hughes wrote: Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Indeed: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/916074 http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/144953 cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/RR8---Possible-International-Vandal-%28assistance-required-in-various-countries%29-tp25230343p25237163.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Richard Fairhurst wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Indeed: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/916074 http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/144953 Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing, although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does hint at the fact that it has been 'de-truncked' and that only some green signs remain? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 16:23, Lester Caine wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Indeed: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/916074 http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/144953 Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing, although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does hint at the fact that it has been 'de-truncked' and that only some green signs remain? I suspect whoever wrote that doesn't understand that de-trunking does not cause it to stop being a primary route. It may well have (indeed almost certainly has) been de-trunked but it is probably still a primary route which means it will have green signs. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Tom Hughes wrote: On 01/09/09 16:23, Lester Caine wrote: Richard Fairhurst wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: Unless something has changed in the last few years them at least some parts of the A816 are trunk (in the OSM sense of being primary A roads with green signs). Indeed: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/916074 http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/144953 Which would suggest that the changeset for this needs reversing, although http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=A816 does hint at the fact that it has been 'de-truncked' and that only some green signs remain? I suspect whoever wrote that doesn't understand that de-trunking does not cause it to stop being a primary route. It may well have (indeed almost certainly has) been de-trunked but it is probably still a primary route which means it will have green signs. Actually Tom - even Traffic Scotland show the A816 as a simple A road rather than a primary route. Although the section from the A85 down to Oban does seem to be ambiguous. The rest of the route is not a green one on their listings. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/9/1 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: I was going to say - seconded but I think that some of the changes just need cross referencing. I can't speak for his edits elsewhere (though some seem to have been at best incautious), but every _single_ change he made in Ireland (and there were many) was: a) wrong b) clearly completely uninformed c) not at all considered d) damaging e) troublesome to revert He doesn't even seem to know what side of the road we drive on... Add to this the fact that he has not responded to any message sent by other mappers. If an admin with access to his email address wishes to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one and try email, be my guest. But what we are dealing with here is a proven vandal who won't engage with community members. Action required. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
What Dermot is saying with regard to the edits this user made in Ireland is correct. This users editing was careless, ignorant, and whimsical. I have yet to decide if it was malicious. I think It may be a good idea to contact contributors in Iceland (where he has done more editing than elsewhere) to ask if his edits are justified, or as destructive as his edits in Ireland. Thanks Larry On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Dermot McNallyderm...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/1 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk: I was going to say - seconded but I think that some of the changes just need cross referencing. I can't speak for his edits elsewhere (though some seem to have been at best incautious), but every _single_ change he made in Ireland (and there were many) was: a) wrong b) clearly completely uninformed c) not at all considered d) damaging e) troublesome to revert He doesn't even seem to know what side of the road we drive on... Add to this the fact that he has not responded to any message sent by other mappers. If an admin with access to his email address wishes to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one and try email, be my guest. But what we are dealing with here is a proven vandal who won't engage with community members. Action required. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Larry O'Neilllarryone...@gmail.com wrote: What Dermot is saying with regard to the edits this user made in Ireland is correct. This users editing was careless, ignorant, and whimsical. I have yet to decide if it was malicious. I think It may be a good idea to contact contributors in Iceland (where he has done more editing than elsewhere) to ask if his edits are justified, or as destructive as his edits in Ireland. Thanks Larry I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Hi, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. Comments like that are not helpful at all. If that's really your attitude then find yourself a tightly controlled, non-crowdsourced project. What do you expect the admins to do? Drop their day job and chase after someone where even people on the mailing lists say they are not really sure if this is vandalism or not? Come on! I don't understand the urgency either. It's not like this guy is deleting half of the data. Let him do his thing for a while and then we'll perhaps have a clearer picture of what he's up to. He might even have answered an e-Mail by then. If people wouldn't get all upset and flap their wings like a bunch of hens then we could calmly investigate what is happening - and if we find that we want to remove his edits in a week or two, we can still do it. Yes, it is always easier to undo a change when it is still fresh, but shoot first, as questions later is certainly not the admins' motto, and I am grateful for that. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. Comments like that are not helpful at all. If that's really your attitude then find yourself a tightly controlled, non-crowdsourced project. I say that because I spent a little bit time to look the edits of this person, working intensively in different countries with a lot of short edits and after one day of the first alarms about this user. What do you expect the admins to do? Drop their day job and chase after someone where even people on the mailing lists say they are not really sure if this is vandalism or not? Come on! I don't understand the urgency either. It's not like this guy is deleting half of the data. Let him do his thing for a while and then we'll perhaps have a clearer picture of what he's up to. He might even have answered an e-Mail by then. If people wouldn't get all upset and flap their wings like a bunch of hens then we could calmly investigate what is happening - and if we find that we want to remove his edits in a week or two, we can still do it. That's why I say it is the worst form of vandalism. They look like normal edits but it is done very shortly in different countries which is also questionning about the source of the changes. And about reverting, you mention yourself that reverting is more complicated or even impossible if you wait too long. And yes, I'm expecting fast reactions from the admins until a real revert in one click is possible from the interface like in wikipedia. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. As an admin with the technical ability to do these things I'm perfectly capable of reacting quickly once I believe I have legitimate authority to act. I do not however plan to appoint myself as judge, jury and executioner in these matters. What we are lacking is not people to take action, but mechanisms and people to quickly investigate and make decisions on what action should be take in an appropriate transparent, democratic and legitimate manner. A group of people demanding that something by done on a mailing list does not, in my mind, constitute a legitimate authority for me to act. After all no matter how obvious this or any other case might be in general terms I can't possibly personally determine who is right in any particular case, nor can I set any sort of quorum as to how big the lynch mob on the mailing lists needs to be to trigger action because I can't know if they are people with a legitimate grievance or are indeed just a lynch mob. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/9/2 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. Comments like that are not helpful at all. If that's really your attitude then find yourself a tightly controlled, non-crowdsourced project. On wikipedia perhaps 10 or 15 malicious edits can get you blocked. I know this is not wikipedia but this part happens to work very well and in this case it would have saved people lots of work and time, which we always lack. Additionally wikipedia was criticised a lot in media for allowing anyone to break stuff and it would be a pity if OSM acquires the same fame in the media and among serious vendors. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Pierenpier...@gmail.com wrote: And yes, I'm expecting fast reactions from the admins You're a gold-level member of the OSMF, right? Y'know, the level that means your annual membership fee is the same cost as a full time admin to do your beck and call, right? Didn't think so. until a real revert in one click is possible from the interface like in wikipedia. You'll be waiting a loonnngg time for that then. Unless you have some l33t h4x0rz skills you're willing to share? After all, everyone else who's worked on revert code has consistently said on these mailing lists oh yeah, a revert button would be trivial, I'll do it tomorrow. Oh, wait, no we didn't. I understand what it's like dealing with vandals, so I know why your annoyed. But please don't start demanding stuff on the mailing lists from other volunteers, admins or not, it's not going to get anything solved. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Dermot McNallyderm...@gmail.com wrote: But what we are dealing with here is a proven vandal who won't engage with community members. Action required. Yes. By you. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism#Vandalism_response Doesn't mention demanding action on the mailing list. So do it properly (especially the bit about assuming good faith), document what's going on, build a list of concrete examples - i.e. put a case together (maybe on the wiki?). If it's not possible to resolve within the community (messages, emails, offering the guy help, explaining the trunk/primary issues etc), then contact the DWG - but please don't just email them with a ban this guy cause I say he's a vandal type email; do it properly, give them convincing case notes. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
On 01/09/2009 23:40, Tom Hughes wrote: On 01/09/09 23:02, Pieren wrote: I'm just questionning myself if I will continue to contribute to OSM if the admins are not able to react faster to something which looks like the worst form of vandalism. As an admin with the technical ability to do these things I'm perfectly capable of reacting quickly once I believe I have legitimate authority to act. I do not however plan to appoint myself as judge, jury and executioner in these matters. What we are lacking is not people to take action, but mechanisms and people to quickly investigate and make decisions on what action should be take in an appropriate transparent, democratic and legitimate manner. A group of people demanding that something by done on a mailing list does not, in my mind, constitute a legitimate authority for me to act. After all no matter how obvious this or any other case might be in general terms I can't possibly personally determine who is right in any particular case, nor can I set any sort of quorum as to how big the lynch mob on the mailing lists needs to be to trigger action because I can't know if they are people with a legitimate grievance or are indeed just a lynch mob. Indeed, that puts you in an invidious position. I had a look at a few of his edits, and while a B road in the UK midlands was simply invention, a change to the A9 in the far north of Scotland was indeed correct (though incomplete). A node for Keflavik airport in Iceland was created in one of its car parks (when it already had one nearby). On the general point, I wonder whether a mechanism to lock the objects affected by a particular changeset from further change might be useful so that when we have a suspected case we can freeze its objects until we can make a decision, so that it can be simply reverted rather than ending up with conflicting later changes (often people trying to make manual corrections)? Automatically locking further changes by a particular user may also be useful once suspected - more so than banning them, as a determined individual will just open a new account. We've seen two or three users now making calculated, plausible edits that are actually wrong, which is a much harder case to deal with than wholesale crude deletion or scribbling because it needs local knowledge. Ireland people, why don't you just revert the changesets you personally know to be wrong yourselves - any user can do this, and Frederick's perl script is publicly available in svn and isn't hard to set up and use. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Hi, Pieren wrote: I say that because I spent a little bit time to look the edits of this person, working intensively in different countries with a lot of short edits and after one day of the first alarms about this user. But do you even have anyhing to prove that this is vandalism? Just because a new account makes lots of edits in different places doesn't mean anything... there might be a pre-existing group of people on some mailing list and one of them says hey, check out OSM, I've set up this account and you can all used it... - not the best of ideas but not vandalism either. That's why I say it is the worst form of vandalism. They look like normal edits but it is done very shortly in different countries which is also questionning about the source of the changes. Is there any proof that these are not normal edits? (Bear in mind that sometimes even normal edits break something.) And yes, I'm expecting fast reactions from the admins until a real revert in one click is possible from the interface like in wikipedia. I'm sorry but I have not heard anything from you that would make me think it would be good to have a revert in one click function. You sound as if you'd revert anything you find suspicious... Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/9/2 Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Dermot McNallyderm...@gmail.com wrote: But what we are dealing with here is a proven vandal who won't engage with community members. Action required. Yes. By you. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism#Vandalism_response Doesn't mention demanding action on the mailing list. Steady Andy. I did all of what was mentioned on that page, with the exception of doing the fixing myself. That was my evening last night. And I don't expect a lynching based on unfounded allegations either - It has been identified in great detail here why we are crying vandalism. I've encountered all kinds of incompetence and poor judgement from OSM users and this is the first time I've called foul in such a public way. I'm not crying wolf here. So please, let's all try to be similarly constructive. I know that some of these things are hard to do or weighed down with other baggage. So let's discuss all that and work out what we _should_ do. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
2009/9/2 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: But do you even have anyhing to prove that this is vandalism? Just because a new account makes lots of edits in different places doesn't mean anything... there might be a pre-existing group of people on some mailing list and one of them says hey, check out OSM, I've set up this account and you can all used it... - not the best of ideas but not vandalism either. I'll go over what the mapper did in Ireland, which to me is the clearest case of (at least) reckless incompetence (an ill that can be cured through communication, but only with two-way communication): * All motorway under construction marked complete. Including adding amateurish (wrong way, driving on right) stubs to make the pieces connect. * Most long-distance dual-carriageways up-tagged to motorways, including the changing of refs (e.g. N7-M7) * Slip roads on the up-classified sections retagged to motorway (not motorway_link) In all, about 2-200km of road were retagged with no basis whatsoever. I won't imply malice, but if I see a baby with a can of spray paint defacing my house wall I'll act just as quickly as if it were a teenager signing his initials. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Pieren wrote: I say that because I spent a little bit time to look the edits of this person, working intensively in different countries with a lot of short edits and after one day of the first alarms about this user. But do you even have anyhing to prove that this is vandalism? Just because a new account makes lots of edits in different places doesn't mean anything... I ran into just this sort of thing with a new account set up about a day after our RR8 friend.Rapid edits in several countries; dirt tracks in Italy and the wilds of Canada... and a boulevard near me in what was last an open field in the most recent aerial photography. The boulevard was in 2 segments which overlapped each other, didn't connect to any other roadway, and one of them was mis-spelled. So I asked the mapper where they got their information for the new roadway - they replied that they used to live here and had a legitimate web reference to the new road name and location. So I believe that the way(s) in my area are real and just created from a rough GPS track, or perhaps even from memory.I'll run a GPS track survey on it next time I drive by there. So while I have no way of knowing about RR8, I can appreciate the process not instantly vaporizing suspicious activity.Hopefully the RR8 will be resolved without people losing work. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
To add to this, this user is failing to reply to messages and continuing to edit (currently in Iceland). I can't speak for the usefulness of his edits there, but he certainly seems prolific. Right now I'm torn between my desire to fix the core of the Irish road network and my fear that he'll break it again. Can we reach some consensus for damage limitation action here? (like a ban until this loon explains himself...) Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Please stop this person from doing any more damage. RR8 is still editing as I write - can the account be suspended a.s.a.p., please? -- Regards, Cliff. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
-- Forwarded message -- From: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com Date: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries) To: Talk Openstreetmap t...@openstreetmap.org Hi list, Attention was drawn to the OSM user RR8 last night on IRC. It appears that they have been producing /apparently/ deconstructive edits at a high frequency since late Saturday evening (server time). Edits primarily are the reclassification of highways to a different level. This has occured frequently in the East Midlands (often including a change of reference number that cannot be confirmed from other sources), places in Ireland where under-construction motorways have been marked as opened, and a few reclassifications elsewhere, most notably Iceland. The edits appear to look constructive, but are more likely to be destructive. Ideally, someone local to the areas in question should check a few of the changes, or we could get people from the mailing list to consider the edits as a whole to decide what's to be done about them. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RR8/edits -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries)
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Marloue Pidormur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: I have the same experience with the contributor Anthony Balico he add many roads mostly big edits and these roads overlaps the existing roads. For instance this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=8.50999lon=125.9716zoom=15layers=B000FTTT I've already asked him to remove edits coming from roadguide.ph data. But he does have some personal trace in Mindanao: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Anthony%20Balico/traces The Davao-Surigao road (primary road) was edited by Maning the the data was authentic because it came from me (i shared my data to maning) then there is an overlap trunk road (i removed the road classification so that the road will not appear on the map) and when I checked the traces uploaded by the contributor I found none. I suggest you remove the overlapped way: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/38968355 And here's another one from contributor Pelegrino Jessie: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=7.6816lon=126.0696zoom=13layers=B000FTFT When I checked the yahoo image there was no thing to map in the area (I just don't know, I've not been in the area). This seems to be an experiment. It's quite odd to see tag combinations like this: * boat: yes * waterway: river * railway: tram Best, murlwe -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 8/31/2009 10:58:11 AM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal(assistance required in various countries) -- Forwarded message -- From: Thomas Wood grand.edgemas...@gmail.com Date: Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:47 AM Subject: [OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries) To: Talk Openstreetmap t...@openstreetmap.org Hi list, Attention was drawn to the OSM user RR8 last night on IRC. It appears that they have been producing /apparently/ deconstructive edits at a high frequency since late Saturday evening (server time). Edits primarily are the reclassification of highways to a different level. This has occured frequently in the East Midlands (often including a change of reference number that cannot be confirmed from other sources), places in Ireland where under-construction motorways have been marked as opened, and a few reclassifications elsewhere, most notably Iceland. The edits appear to look constructive, but are more likely to be destructive. Ideally, someone local to the areas in question should check a few of the changes, or we could get people from the mailing list to consider the edits as a whole to decide what's to be done about them. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RR8/edits -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph . ___ Get the Free email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Unlimited Email Storage POP3 Calendar SMS Translator Much More! -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk] RR8 - Possible International Vandal (assistance required in various countries)
Hi list, Attention was drawn to the OSM user RR8 last night on IRC. It appears that they have been producing /apparently/ deconstructive edits at a high frequency since late Saturday evening (server time). Edits primarily are the reclassification of highways to a different level. This has occured frequently in the East Midlands (often including a change of reference number that cannot be confirmed from other sources), places in Ireland where under-construction motorways have been marked as opened, and a few reclassifications elsewhere, most notably Iceland. The edits appear to look constructive, but are more likely to be destructive. Ideally, someone local to the areas in question should check a few of the changes, or we could get people from the mailing list to consider the edits as a whole to decide what's to be done about them. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/RR8/edits -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
