Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: Another possibility (that I much prefer) is that the available data is used in the same was as, say, aerial imagery - i.e. not bulk imported, but used directly and interactively by mappers. This is why I think John is wrong to be protective of data that could be useful - I see it as analogous to being protective of, say, aerial imagery. The data isn't John's, so I wouldn't call it 'protective' but 'cautious'. IF the list discusses the ins and outs and decides for importing that is fine - but this time JS has decided to wait for the list to talk about it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 3 March 2010 19:25, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: The data isn't John's, so I wouldn't call it 'protective' but 'cautious'. IF the list discusses the ins and outs and decides for importing that is fine - but this time JS has decided to wait for the list to talk about it. And it's not like someone else suitably skilled can't just convert it and import it anyway. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
I think things are being blown out of proportion about duplicates, points of interest is one thing that OSM can excel at, but the point itself is only part of the data, I think the meta information is more important and a lot of this information simply isn't being collected at present by most mappers. I think that duplicates are more likely to occur in metro areas, which if you take into account the availablity of hi-res imagery is usually a trivial matter to merge. On the other hand most rural areas are to varying degrees a blank canvas, unless there is 1 or more avid mappers in the region. So I have no regrets over previous imports, but I think making OSM files available to anyone and everyone is a bad idea simply because it only takes a couple of overly zealous mappers or people with malice and we really will have a problem on our hands. The question then is what to do about data sources becoming available. Simply ignoring them is a mistake because of the additional information they can provide that doesn't exist, there is also a lot of people once shown how could be very useful in collating disparate data sets the question is how to make datasets available in a useful way to people that are going to do useful things with them without being too overly protective. If the majority on this list think a compromise is in order, a possible way to achieve this might be to split the data up into metro/non-metro chunks and import the non-metro and make the metro available to interested parties only on request. In any case I don't think I'll be making future datasets available, I will either import it myself or hand out the data on a per request basis, or just leave it up to others to deal with. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:47 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I think making OSM files available to anyone and everyone is a bad idea simply because it only takes a couple of overly zealous mappers or people with malice and we really will have a problem on our hands. I disagree! Be careful not to be condescending to other mappers, and please don't be protective of the data that you could otherwise make available. We're all just as sensible as you. It's good to discuss when and how imports should be made, but not good to discuss who should be allowed or denied access to that data on the basis of how zealous they may or may not be. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 3 March 2010 07:56, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree! Be careful not to be condescending to other mappers, and I'm not being condescending, but realistic, accidents happen and people do bad things on purpose. please don't be protective of the data that you could otherwise make available. We're all just as sensible as you. That would be nice, but there is always bad apples and accidents. It's good to discuss when and how imports should be made, but not good to discuss who should be allowed or denied access to that data on the basis of how zealous they may or may not be. Being a little protective will save a lot of hassle undoing the damage later. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Nick Hocking nick.hock...@gmail.com wrote: Another possibility is that we just say - OSM is just a repository for this data and we don't modify it in any way, or add to it, and then just do a complete bulk import every time a new version becomes available. Another possibility (that I *much* prefer) is that the available data is used in the same was as, say, aerial imagery - i.e. not bulk imported, but used directly and interactively by mappers. This is why I think John is wrong to be protective of data that could be useful - I see it as analogous to being protective of, say, aerial imagery. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
Just out of interest, do these railway stations and airports, also come with a street address? What percentage of these items youre importing, are you bothering to check, 1 or 2? 1 or 2% 50%? None? Id be pretty sure that almost all airports and train stations are already in the database, and those that arent, are the exception, not the rule. Out of maybe 1000 airports, 995 might be on the system already, so is it really worth having to de-dupe and fix up 1000 nodes, just to get the 5 missing ones? I know I always seem negative about people who mass-import data, unfairly, but put it this way, would you trust a travel guide from someone who'd never been to the place the guide is about, or would you prefer to use a source which someone has actually visited, and documented accurately? David On Mon, 2010-03-01 at 01:22 +1000, John Smith wrote: Railway stations: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/vmlite_rail_stations.osm.bz2 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Mon, 2010-03-01 at 08:25 +1000, Roy Wallace wrote: On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:19 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I've moved the previous files and all the rest of the files Mike converted here: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/data.vic.gov.au/ Can you please explain if/how you would suggest regular mappers help with the importing of this data? 'regular mappers' shouldnt really be doing bulk importing. However, the job for regular mappers, is to re-visit those areas youve already mapped, and find/fix any imported items, such as duplicate nodes or nodes that have been misplaced. Theyre pretty easy to spot, theyre normally always tagged with a fixme tag. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 2 March 2010 11:48, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Just out of interest, do these railway stations and airports, also come with a street address? What percentage of these items youre importing, No, just lat/lon. are you bothering to check, 1 or 2? 1 or 2% 50%? None? Id be pretty At this stage I'm leaving it up to others, I really don't have a direct interest/benefit in non-NSW/Qld data, but someone somewhere will. sure that almost all airports and train stations are already in the database, and those that arent, are the exception, not the rule. Out of No they aren't, especially a large percentage if not the majority of regional ones are generally not mapped. maybe 1000 airports, 995 might be on the system already, so is it really worth having to de-dupe and fix up 1000 nodes, just to get the 5 missing ones? It's really not that hard to de-dupe, you make it seem like a massive problem, in any case there is generally a complete lack of data in non-metro areas. I know I always seem negative about people who mass-import data, unfairly, but put it this way, would you trust a travel guide from someone who'd never been to the place the guide is about, or would you prefer to use a source which someone has actually visited, and documented accurately? I've mapped a lot of things from aerial imagery, as did most people not in Haiti that mapped things out, I don't see this as a completely valid argument to be honest, OSM is about an evolutionary improvement from worst (blank canvas) to best (highly accurate positioning), it's not ever going to have perfect data everywhere, and having bad data is better than no data, after all how many mistakes exist in commercial maps? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 2 March 2010 11:56, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: 'regular mappers' shouldnt really be doing bulk importing. However, the Before you make sweeping statements you should probably define who or what a non-regular mapper is. Less than 12 months ago I hadn't mapped anything. As per the instructions I gave, someone copying and pasting POIs between layers is pretty straight forward and simple. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 1:26 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: ... having bad data is better than no data John I agree with your overall position, but this isn't the best way to phrase it. Thanks for making the data *available for import*. The method of importing it will of course be undertaken according to the best judgement of each mapper. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 2 March 2010 13:33, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for making the data *available for import*. The method of importing it will of course be undertaken according to the best judgement of each mapper. I'm conflicted here because all it takes is one overly zealous trigger happy mapper and the information will end up in OSM anyway, in fact it could be more dangerous to make the data available in OSM form than to actually import it because if someone is cherry picking data to import verses someone actually importing there will be duplicates, which may not show up on the duplicated node finder since the cherry pickers could place them differently. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
I've converted the Victorian hospital locations from kmz to osm, but I also split their info field up into multiple tags since they include the address, emergency, type and ownership of the hospital. http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/vic_hospitals.osm.bz2 node id='-468' action='modify' timestamp='2010-02-28T12:38:43Z' visible='true' lat='-38.3799' lon='142.4731' tag k='name' v='South West Healthcare, Warrnambool Campus' / tag k='amenity' v='hospital' / tag k='hospital:address' v='279 Koroit Street, Warrnambool 3280' / tag k='emergency' v='yes' / tag k='hospital:agency_type' v='Public Hospital' / tag k='hospital:ownership' v='Public' / tag k='fixme' v='not_reviewed' / tag k='source' v='data.vic.gov.au' / tag k='attribution' v='Department of Health' / /node ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
Airports: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/vmlite_airports.osm.bz2 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
Railway stations: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/vmlite_rail_stations.osm.bz2 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
Thanks to Mike from #flossk for this, he converted railway lines: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/rails.osm.bz2 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
I just send you the rest of them as a zip file. On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 4:34 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks to Mike from #flossk for this, he converted railway lines: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/rails.osm.bz2 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 1 March 2010 02:53, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I just send you the rest of them as a zip file. Thanks for that, I'm adding attribution and source tags and then I'll upload them so others can access them. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
I've moved the previous files and all the rest of the files Mike converted here: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/data.vic.gov.au/ ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 3:19 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I've moved the previous files and all the rest of the files Mike converted here: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/data.vic.gov.au/ Can you please explain if/how you would suggest regular mappers help with the importing of this data? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 1 March 2010 08:25, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Can you please explain if/how you would suggest regular mappers help with the importing of this data? The files with points of interest are pretty straight forward, either upload them all, or copy and paste them one at a time, I'll leave it up to people here as to what happens with those. The rivers/roads on the other hand need to be merged, and this will most likely need to be a copy and paste job. As far as I know, only JOSM can load OSM data files, however you can load data from OSM on different layers and switch between them etc. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On 28 February 2010 09:59, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir maxi...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday the App My State Victoria competition for Victorian residents to build mobile and web applications that will benefit Victorians. opened ( http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/app-my-state/prizes-and-categories.html ) However this also lead to the release of many datasets for use in the competition @ http://data.vic.gov.au/ This includes several transport datasets (Bus/Tram/Train Stops, Train Stations, Railway Lines) as well as POIs (courts, hospitals, fire stations MFB and CFA, prisons, university/tafe locations, etc.) and ways (Lakes, Rivers, Island outlines, Towns, Urban Areas, LGAs, Postcodes, Highways and Class 3 Roads) How many have lat/lon data, I've looked at a few data sets and they only have addresses, and we still don't have a suitable geocoder available. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
Actually there is some kmz files, does anyone know the easiest way to import this into OSM format or as a layer in JOSM? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] CC-BY-A data released for Victoria
On Sun, 2010-02-28 at 10:37 +1000, John Smith wrote: Actually there is some kmz files, does anyone know the easiest way to import this into OSM format or as a layer in JOSM? In Linux, gpsbabel is your friend. If youre in windows, well, good luck. Can you please make sure that if youre going to import another bulk dataset, that its actually accurate, without duplicating 99% of its data? These recent bulk imports have caused more mess and effort than would have been invovled in just placing nodes there manually, from GPS or nearmap. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
