Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Ed Loach]

Ah, yes. I had to upgrade to JOSM latest rather than JOSM tested. I would like 
to thank Simon04 for his quick response to my error report 

https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/11942

 

Ed

 

From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 October 2015 23:16
To: Ed Loach
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: RE: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now 
available

 

Thanks. Have you had any trouble getting the tiles to load in JOSM? When I 
tried I keep getting error messages popping up which made it unusable. JOSM 
does seem to suffer from bugs these days (maybe I have a bad plugin).

Rob

On 15 Oct 2015 08:49, "Ed Loach" <edlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Done

 

Ed

 

From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 14 October 2015 18:04
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now 
available

 

Ed,

Is it possible to add Bing aerial as a layer - it would be interesting to see 
how it compares for tracing. I'll check it out in JOSM but others may like it 
on the website.

Cheers,

Rob

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Ed Loach]

Done

 

Ed

 

From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 14 October 2015 18:04
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now 
available

 

Ed,

Is it possible to add Bing aerial as a layer - it would be interesting to see 
how it compares for tracing. I'll check it out in JOSM but others may like it 
on the website.

Cheers,

Rob

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks. Have you had any trouble getting the tiles to load in JOSM? When I
tried I keep getting error messages popping up which made it unusable. JOSM
does seem to suffer from bugs these days (maybe I have a bad plugin).

Rob
On 15 Oct 2015 08:49, "Ed Loach" <edlo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Done
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> *From:* Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 14 October 2015 18:04
> *To:* talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed
> now available
>
>
>
> Ed,
>
> Is it possible to add Bing aerial as a layer - it would be interesting to
> see how it compares for tracing. I'll check it out in JOSM but others may
> like it on the website.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rob
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Ed Loach]

Some time ago Chris wrote:

> In the blog article
> (http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html) I
> explain a bit about the difference between DSM and DTM. DSM
> does include
> building outlines. I've processed a small part of the data to see them.
> Here's an example of a TIFF of DSM data with the building outlines:
> http://raggedred.net/shared/ta0230.tif
> 
> Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.

For about the last eight days I have been following the notes in the blog 
article mentioned above to process and upload the DSM 2m, 1m, 50cm and 25cm 
data for TM01, TM02, TM03, TM11, TM12, TM13, TM21, TM22, and TM23 - the 30km x 
30km area which completely covers the Tendring district of Essex and gets a 
small bit of the surrounding area (Mersea Island, part of Colchester, part of 
south Suffolk including a bit of Felixstowe, for example). The 2m and 1m data I 
generated z9-z18 and 50cm and 25cm I generated z9-z19. This created just under 
1.5 million tiles (which totalled just under 11GB). There were probably quite a 
lot of completely transparent tiles in that number.

Results can be viewed at
http://www.loach.me.uk/Lidar/
with the steps I followed available at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:EdLoach/Tendring_LIDAR

Locally, the 25cm data seems to mainly follow coastlines with patches over 
Colchester and north Clacton (switch off the different layers to see coverage 
of each).

Ed



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Curon Davies]

2015-09-29 20:47 GMT+01:00 Bogus Zaba :
>
> Anybody know if Wales data also available? I've written to Natural
> Resources Wales to ask, but somebody knowledgeable on the list might
> reply quicker.

Last week I noticed an announcement on this:

"We will change LIDAR from licensed data to open data on Monday 2 November
2015."
http://naturalresources.wales/lidar?lang=en

Curon
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Bogus Zaba]

On 22/09/15 10:34, Tim Waters wrote:
> Hello,
>
> back in June we had a thread announcing that this LIDAR data was due
> to be released. Well some of it has.
>
> https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2015/09/18/laser-surveys-light-up-open-data/
>
> http://environment.data.gov.uk/ds/survey#/
>
> I think it's just for England, and appears to be 1m and 2m composite
> DTM and 1m and 2m DSM They do intend to release a Tiled version next,
> and I think 50cm and 25cm are coming also
>
> What can we do with it?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
> ___
>
Anybody know if Wales data also available? I've written to Natural
Resources Wales to ask, but somebody knowledgeable on the list might
reply quicker.

Bogus

-- 
Dr Bogumil N Zaba


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Phil Endecott]

Chris Hill wrote:
I've had a go at extracting the height of buildings from the Environment 
Agency LIDAR, and it seems possible.


I loaded the EA data into a database and found all the height points 
within the polygon of an existing building outline. The highest value is 
the height of the building.


Well it's the altitude above sea level of the roof of the building.
Presumably what OSM wants to record is the height above natural ground
level or adjacent road level or similar.  I can think of various ways
of doing that, e.g. looking for the lowest point near but outside the
building outline.

I can also imagine looking at the distribution of heights within the
building outline and working out if it is a flat or a pitched roof.
And maybe working out which direction the ridge runs in i.e. which
wall it is parallel to.


Cheers,  Phil.





___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Phil Endecott]

Chris Hill write:

On 24/09/15 18:41, Phil Endecott wrote:

Chris Hill wrote:

Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.


Yes, I think it could be very useful for that.  I've had a play
and rather than doing shaded relief I've just converted the height
directly into a grey shade.  I've then applied ImageMagick's edge
detection filter.  Here are a couple of fragments near Manchester
taken from the 25cm resolution data; in each case the first image
is the direct height-to-grey and the second is edge-detected:

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1_ed.png
This is at SJ 8099, or maybe search for Chaseley Road to find it
on a map.  You could easily trace building outlines from this and
determine roof shapes and could measure building heights by subtracting
roof from ground, with some suitable tool.  You could also trace
trees and some walls.

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2_ed.png
This is SE of the last one at SJ 8198.  The gasometers (presumably!)
are at the junction of West Egerton Street and Liverpool Street.
I find it interesting that you can count the number of ridges in
the large warehouse roofs.  You can also easily identify carparks!

How would people find this for tracing compared to photo imagery?


Looks interesting. Have you reprojected the images from the OS 
projection they come as to WGS84 that OSM uses?


No, I've just processed the raw values in their OSGB form.

I don't really have the skills to do reprojection and tiling and
serving the tiles as a map layer; if people actually want to use
this, someone else will need to do that.

Some of the data was gathered in 2009, so Bing aerial images can be more 
up-to-date, but for most buildings this isn't a problem.


The data does at least indicate its age.


Regards,  Phil.





___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

On 28/09/15 16:14, Phil Endecott wrote:

Chris Hill wrote:
I've had a go at extracting the height of buildings from the 
Environment Agency LIDAR, and it seems possible.


I loaded the EA data into a database and found all the height points 
within the polygon of an existing building outline. The highest value 
is the height of the building.


Well it's the altitude above sea level of the roof of the building.
Presumably what OSM wants to record is the height above natural ground
level or adjacent road level or similar.  I can think of various ways
of doing that, e.g. looking for the lowest point near but outside the
building outline.


No, the whole point of subtracting the DTM from the DSM data is to leave 
the height above the surrounding land level. The height=* tag wants the 
height of the highest point of the roof, so simply finding max() of all 
of the points within the polygon of the building does that. That's the 
good thing about this method.


I can also imagine looking at the distribution of heights within the
building outline and working out if it is a flat or a pitched roof.
And maybe working out which direction the ridge runs in i.e. which
wall it is parallel to.




Processing more roof detail is much harder.

I've written another blog about getting these height values: 
http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/extracting-building-heights-from-lidar.html


--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[tony wroblewski]

Hi Chris

Would it be possible to somehow use this data with the building
outlines from OS OpenMap?. I know that data is somewhat
simplified/generalised, but maybe combined together we could get an
idea of how the simplified shapes from OS OpenData are terraced and
even get their heights. I'm not talking about an import, but an
imagery layer with both combined somehow.

I've used OS and OSM data combined to produce free scenery for flight
simulators http://world2xplane.com/2015/03/30/gb-pro-scenery/. (I've
used OpenStreetMap for other countries for great effect, but the UK
data lacks detail). Despite the simplified data, I've used various
simple algorithms and rules to try and terrace the buildings
automatically (It doesn't need to be 100% accurate for the
flight-sim), and the results have given realistic looking UK towns and
cities. For my next version of the scenery, I'm going to use this data
to also get the correct building heights (my subtracting the height
from the land mesh underneath). Perhaps this effort could be useful
for OSM in some way.

Regards

Tony


On 25 September 2015 at 23:03, Chris Hill  wrote:
> I've had a go at extracting the height of buildings from the Environment
> Agency LIDAR, and it seems possible.
>
> I loaded the EA data into a database and found all the height points within
> the polygon of an existing building outline. The highest value is the height
> of the building. From that I could (haven't yet) create a file of changes to
> add the height to each building. One thing that causes a problem is a tree
> near a house as it can create a higher point than the house.
>
> Using this would be an import and would need to go through the import
> declaration process IMO. I have also thought about creating an editor
> overlay to show the heights so they can be added manually. It's more work
> and I think it's still really an import, but checking each height as it gets
> added should spot anomalies.
>
> I'm going to tidy up the process and write it up in detail as a blog post
> over the next few days so anyone else can try it out too.
>
> --
> Cheers, Chris
> user: chillly
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

Hi Tony,
As OS OpenMap is vector data, finding the height for any building 
outline would be similar to using OSM building outlines. Using the DTM 
data would also give the base height AMSL of the building.


I have used DEM data in Blender (https://www.blender.org/) to create a 
landscape to match a real place. Creating realistic building shapes 
would be great, having building height is a useful part of that.


--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly



On 26/09/15 10:05, tony wroblewski wrote:

Hi Chris

Would it be possible to somehow use this data with the building
outlines from OS OpenMap?. I know that data is somewhat
simplified/generalised, but maybe combined together we could get an
idea of how the simplified shapes from OS OpenData are terraced and
even get their heights. I'm not talking about an import, but an
imagery layer with both combined somehow.

I've used OS and OSM data combined to produce free scenery for flight
simulators http://world2xplane.com/2015/03/30/gb-pro-scenery/. (I've
used OpenStreetMap for other countries for great effect, but the UK
data lacks detail). Despite the simplified data, I've used various
simple algorithms and rules to try and terrace the buildings
automatically (It doesn't need to be 100% accurate for the
flight-sim), and the results have given realistic looking UK towns and
cities. For my next version of the scenery, I'm going to use this data
to also get the correct building heights (my subtracting the height
from the land mesh underneath). Perhaps this effort could be useful
for OSM in some way.

Regards

Tony


On 25 September 2015 at 23:03, Chris Hill  wrote:

I've had a go at extracting the height of buildings from the Environment
Agency LIDAR, and it seems possible.

I loaded the EA data into a database and found all the height points within
the polygon of an existing building outline. The highest value is the height
of the building. From that I could (haven't yet) create a file of changes to
add the height to each building. One thing that causes a problem is a tree
near a house as it can create a higher point than the house.

Using this would be an import and would need to go through the import
declaration process IMO. I have also thought about creating an editor
overlay to show the heights so they can be added manually. It's more work
and I think it's still really an import, but checking each height as it gets
added should spot anomalies.

I'm going to tidy up the process and write it up in detail as a blog post
over the next few days so anyone else can try it out too.

--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

I've had a go at extracting the height of buildings from the Environment 
Agency LIDAR, and it seems possible.


I loaded the EA data into a database and found all the height points 
within the polygon of an existing building outline. The highest value is 
the height of the building. From that I could (haven't yet) create a 
file of changes to add the height to each building. One thing that 
causes a problem is a tree near a house as it can create a higher point 
than the house.


Using this would be an import and would need to go through the import 
declaration process IMO. I have also thought about creating an editor 
overlay to show the heights so they can be added manually. It's more 
work and I think it's still really an import, but checking each height 
as it gets added should spot anomalies.


I'm going to tidy up the process and write it up in detail as a blog 
post over the next few days so anyone else can try it out too.


--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Rob Nickerson]

Sounds good Chris.

No problems with imports from me (assuming the data passes reasonable*
quality assurance). I do feel that the concerns over imports are preventing
OSM from properly innovating. This is a good example of dataset and an
innovative approach that has been made available to us. It would be a shame
if nothing came of it.

You mention trees can cause problems to building heights. Hopefully these
errors are obvious in big urban areas (e.g. if all buildings in a
residential area are of similar height except for a few outliers then it
gives a good indication of where the error is!).

Regards,
Rob

* By reasonable we have to put it in to context of our own manual quality
which is not 100% perfect even for the experienced mapper. We also don't
have a large enough community to invest the number of hours a fully manual
(27million homes) process would require.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

On 24/09/15 18:41, Phil Endecott wrote:

Chris Hill wrote:

Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.


Yes, I think it could be very useful for that.  I've had a play
and rather than doing shaded relief I've just converted the height
directly into a grey shade.  I've then applied ImageMagick's edge
detection filter.  Here are a couple of fragments near Manchester
taken from the 25cm resolution data; in each case the first image
is the direct height-to-grey and the second is edge-detected:

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1_ed.png
This is at SJ 8099, or maybe search for Chaseley Road to find it
on a map.  You could easily trace building outlines from this and
determine roof shapes and could measure building heights by subtracting
roof from ground, with some suitable tool.  You could also trace
trees and some walls.

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2_ed.png
This is SE of the last one at SJ 8198.  The gasometers (presumably!)
are at the junction of West Egerton Street and Liverpool Street.
I find it interesting that you can count the number of ridges in
the large warehouse roofs.  You can also easily identify carparks!

How would people find this for tracing compared to photo imagery?


Looks interesting. Have you reprojected the images from the OS 
projection they come as to WGS84 that OSM uses?


Some of the data was gathered in 2009, so Bing aerial images can be more 
up-to-date, but for most buildings this isn't a problem.


--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Andy Robinson]

That looks really good. Very useful for tracing buildings because there is no 
angle distortion. You can even pick out the differences between the main block 
of a building outline and the lower parts such as single storey extensions and 
garages. One drawback is that vehicles show up but they tend to be smaller than 
most structures.

Be interesting to see a semi-transparent version over an aerial image to see if 
the two combined make tracing very easy or just confusing.

Cheers
Andy

-Original Message-
From: Phil Endecott [mailto:spam_from_os...@chezphil.org] 
Sent: 24 September 2015 18:41
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now 
available

Chris Hill wrote:
> Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.

Yes, I think it could be very useful for that.  I've had a play and rather than 
doing shaded relief I've just converted the height directly into a grey shade.  
I've then applied ImageMagick's edge detection filter.  Here are a couple of 
fragments near Manchester taken from the 25cm resolution data; in each case the 
first image is the direct height-to-grey and the second is edge-detected:

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1_ed.png
This is at SJ 8099, or maybe search for Chaseley Road to find it on a map.  You 
could easily trace building outlines from this and determine roof shapes and 
could measure building heights by subtracting roof from ground, with some 
suitable tool.  You could also trace trees and some walls.

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2_ed.png
This is SE of the last one at SJ 8198.  The gasometers (presumably!) are at the 
junction of West Egerton Street and Liverpool Street.
I find it interesting that you can count the number of ridges in the large 
warehouse roofs.  You can also easily identify carparks!

How would people find this for tracing compared to photo imagery?


Cheers,  Phil.





___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4419/10688 - Release Date: 09/23/15


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[ael]

On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 06:41:23PM +0100, Phil Endecott wrote:
> 
> How would people find this for tracing compared to photo imagery?

It looks excellent, at least at first glance. Thanks so much for all the
work.

ael


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Phil Endecott]

Chris Hill wrote:

Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.


Yes, I think it could be very useful for that.  I've had a play
and rather than doing shaded relief I've just converted the height
directly into a grey shade.  I've then applied ImageMagick's edge
detection filter.  Here are a couple of fragments near Manchester
taken from the 25cm resolution data; in each case the first image
is the direct height-to-grey and the second is edge-detected:

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar1_ed.png
This is at SJ 8099, or maybe search for Chaseley Road to find it
on a map.  You could easily trace building outlines from this and
determine roof shapes and could measure building heights by subtracting
roof from ground, with some suitable tool.  You could also trace
trees and some walls.

http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2.png
http://chezphil.org/tmp/lidar2_ed.png
This is SE of the last one at SJ 8198.  The gasometers (presumably!)
are at the junction of West Egerton Street and Liverpool Street.
I find it interesting that you can count the number of ridges in
the large warehouse roofs.  You can also easily identify carparks!

How would people find this for tracing compared to photo imagery?


Cheers,  Phil.





___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Dave F.]

On 24/09/2015 18:41, Phil Endecott wrote:

You could easily trace building outlines from this


This looks excellent, but being inherently lazy, is there any software 
to convert what I assume are pixels outlines into vectors?


It would save a *lot* of tracing. (Caveat: I'm not advocating  mass import)

Dave F.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Rob Nickerson]

>On 24/09/2015 18:41, Phil Endecott wrote:
>> You could easily trace building outlines from this
>
>This looks excellent, but being inherently lazy, is there any software
>to convert what I assume are pixels outlines into vectors?
>
>It would save a *lot* of tracing. (Caveat: I'm not advocating  mass import)
>
>Dave F.
>

The New York public library's building inspector tool [1] has a solution
for converting raster outlines of buildings to vectors. It works pretty
well but for me the biggest drawback was that it detected the inside of
buildings up to the inside edge of the walls and as such it was leaving
gaps (the thickness of the wall) between terraced buildings.

I was hoping that the chap behind Strava's slide tool [2] could improve the
results (of the NYPL building inspector tool) by applying the "valley"
approach of his algorithm to the blackness of the pixels on the raster map.
He had a go one weekend but to no success. I wonder whether this dataset
would be more suited (it seems to be perfectly suited to the "valley"
algorithm!!). It would require a starting point so some vectorisation
similar to the NYPL tool would still be needed. I wonder whether the right
approach would be to extract the data straight from the LIDAR data rather
than processing it to a raster image then doing edge detection on the
raster.

All the strava slide code is open if anyone wants to have a play [3].

Best regards,
Rob


[1] http://buildinginspector.nypl.org/
[2] http://labs.strava.com/slide/
[3] https://github.com/paulmach/slide
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Phil Endecott]

Has anyone reviewed how useful this LIDAR data would be for 3D city
mapping?

Chris Hill wrote:
The slippy map with relief tiles made from the data and optionally 
contours also made from the data is here: http://relief.raggedred.net. 


Thanks Chris.  I've just been looking at Hull city centre.  It doesn't
look great; is this the difference between the "terrain model" and the
"surface model" that they mention? Which are you using?  Have you looked
at the other one?

Of course I know that the rationale for the data is for flood risk
evaluation so recording building profiles was not the objective - but
you never know how something could be re-purposed!


Cheers,  Phil.





___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

On 23/09/15 14:18, Phil Endecott wrote:

Has anyone reviewed how useful this LIDAR data would be for 3D city
mapping?

Chris Hill wrote:
The slippy map with relief tiles made from the data and optionally 
contours also made from the data is here: http://relief.raggedred.net. 


Thanks Chris.  I've just been looking at Hull city centre.  It doesn't
look great; is this the difference between the "terrain model" and the
"surface model" that they mention? Which are you using?  Have you looked
at the other one?


It looks pretty realistic to me, I guess you mean it doesn't show 
building outlines, but that's why I chose the DTM version.


Of course I know that the rationale for the data is for flood risk
evaluation so recording building profiles was not the objective - but
you never know how something could be re-purposed!



In the blog article 
(http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html) I 
explain a bit about the difference between DSM and DTM. DSM does include 
building outlines. I've processed a small part of the data to see them. 
Here's an example of a TIFF of DSM data with the building outlines: 
http://raggedred.net/shared/ta0230.tif


Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.

I'm not sure about the age of some of the data. Some recently-built 
flood alleviation measures do not show on this EA data but do show on 
the Bing aerial imagery


--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Tim Waters]

Could subtracting between the DSM and DTM where we have buildings
already in OSM give the height of the buildings?



On 23 September 2015 at 15:08, Chris Hill  wrote:
> On 23/09/15 14:18, Phil Endecott wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone reviewed how useful this LIDAR data would be for 3D city
>> mapping?
>>
>> Chris Hill wrote:
>>>
>>> The slippy map with relief tiles made from the data and optionally
>>> contours also made from the data is here: http://relief.raggedred.net.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Chris.  I've just been looking at Hull city centre.  It doesn't
>> look great; is this the difference between the "terrain model" and the
>> "surface model" that they mention? Which are you using?  Have you looked
>> at the other one?
>
>
> It looks pretty realistic to me, I guess you mean it doesn't show building
> outlines, but that's why I chose the DTM version.
>>
>>
>> Of course I know that the rationale for the data is for flood risk
>> evaluation so recording building profiles was not the objective - but
>> you never know how something could be re-purposed!
>>
>
> In the blog article
> (http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html) I explain
> a bit about the difference between DSM and DTM. DSM does include building
> outlines. I've processed a small part of the data to see them. Here's an
> example of a TIFF of DSM data with the building outlines:
> http://raggedred.net/shared/ta0230.tif
>
> Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.
>
> I'm not sure about the age of some of the data. Some recently-built flood
> alleviation measures do not show on this EA data but do show on the Bing
> aerial imagery
>
> --
> Cheers, Chris
> user: chillly
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

On 23/09/15 20:36, Tim Waters wrote:

Could subtracting between the DSM and DTM where we have buildings
already in OSM give the height of the buildings?



On 23 September 2015 at 15:08, Chris Hill  wrote:

On 23/09/15 14:18, Phil Endecott wrote:

Has anyone reviewed how useful this LIDAR data would be for 3D city
mapping?

Chris Hill wrote:

The slippy map with relief tiles made from the data and optionally
contours also made from the data is here: http://relief.raggedred.net.


Thanks Chris.  I've just been looking at Hull city centre.  It doesn't
look great; is this the difference between the "terrain model" and the
"surface model" that they mention? Which are you using?  Have you looked
at the other one?


It looks pretty realistic to me, I guess you mean it doesn't show building
outlines, but that's why I chose the DTM version.


Of course I know that the rationale for the data is for flood risk
evaluation so recording building profiles was not the objective - but
you never know how something could be re-purposed!


In the blog article
(http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html) I explain
a bit about the difference between DSM and DTM. DSM does include building
outlines. I've processed a small part of the data to see them. Here's an
example of a TIFF of DSM data with the building outlines:
http://raggedred.net/shared/ta0230.tif

Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.

I'm not sure about the age of some of the data. Some recently-built flood
alleviation measures do not show on this EA data but do show on the Bing
aerial imagery

--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb



--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

(I'll try again ... )

It might well do that. I'll attempt to compare two areas tomorrow and 
see how easy it is get any height data out. As it happens, one of the 
areas covered by the EA data that I have worked on is a large village 
(Cottingham) which has its buildings all traced out, so I might try to 
work out some of the building heights there.


On 23/09/15 20:36, Tim Waters wrote:

Could subtracting between the DSM and DTM where we have buildings
already in OSM give the height of the buildings?



On 23 September 2015 at 15:08, Chris Hill  wrote:

On 23/09/15 14:18, Phil Endecott wrote:

Has anyone reviewed how useful this LIDAR data would be for 3D city
mapping?

Chris Hill wrote:

The slippy map with relief tiles made from the data and optionally
contours also made from the data is here: http://relief.raggedred.net.


Thanks Chris.  I've just been looking at Hull city centre.  It doesn't
look great; is this the difference between the "terrain model" and the
"surface model" that they mention? Which are you using?  Have you looked
at the other one?


It looks pretty realistic to me, I guess you mean it doesn't show building
outlines, but that's why I chose the DTM version.


Of course I know that the rationale for the data is for flood risk
evaluation so recording building profiles was not the objective - but
you never know how something could be re-purposed!


In the blog article
(http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html) I explain
a bit about the difference between DSM and DTM. DSM does include building
outlines. I've processed a small part of the data to see them. Here's an
example of a TIFF of DSM data with the building outlines:
http://raggedred.net/shared/ta0230.tif

Suitably processed this could provide a source of building outlines.

I'm not sure about the age of some of the data. Some recently-built flood
alleviation measures do not show on this EA data but do show on the Bing
aerial imagery

--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb



--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Phil Endecott]

Chris Hill wrote:
DSM does include 
building outlines. I've processed a small part of the data to see them. 
Here's an example of a TIFF of DSM data with the building outlines: 
http://raggedred.net/shared/ta0230.tif


Thanks Chris, that's quite impressive.

My interest is in using this as a better alternative to the
OS open terrain data as a base over which maps and/or imagery
can be draped, a la Google Earth.  Whether it is better to
extract building outlines, and semantics such as the complex
OSM descriptions for roof shapes, or to just drape a 2D map
over a 3D terrain for display, is I think an open question.


Regards,  Phil.










___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Chris Hill]

Thanks for the plug Tim :-)

The slippy map with relief tiles made from the data and optionally 
contours also made from the data is here: http://relief.raggedred.net. 
This covers a mostly very flat area, yet significant details are 
visible. It does show a number of places where ditches and other small 
water courses might be missing from OSM and therefore places to survey.


The contours are minutely detailed using the 50cm data. If I was 
creating contours that are more generally useful I'd try the 2m data I 
think.


--
Cheers, Chris
user: chillly



On 22/09/15 10:39, Tim Waters wrote:

Ahh correction, there *is* data at 25cm and 50cm in some areas (where
flooding is a threat) but it looks as if the 1m and 2m covers the
country.

Chris has written a post here also:
http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html so
we're already playing with it.

Tim

On 22 September 2015 at 10:34, Tim Waters  wrote:

Hello,

back in June we had a thread announcing that this LIDAR data was due
to be released. Well some of it has.

https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2015/09/18/laser-surveys-light-up-open-data/

http://environment.data.gov.uk/ds/survey#/

I think it's just for England, and appears to be 1m and 2m composite
DTM and 1m and 2m DSM They do intend to release a Tiled version next,
and I think 50cm and 25cm are coming also

What can we do with it?

Cheers,

Tim

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[Tim Waters]

Ahh correction, there *is* data at 25cm and 50cm in some areas (where
flooding is a threat) but it looks as if the 1m and 2m covers the
country.

Chris has written a post here also:
http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html so
we're already playing with it.

Tim

On 22 September 2015 at 10:34, Tim Waters  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> back in June we had a thread announcing that this LIDAR data was due
> to be released. Well some of it has.
>
> https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2015/09/18/laser-surveys-light-up-open-data/
>
> http://environment.data.gov.uk/ds/survey#/
>
> I think it's just for England, and appears to be 1m and 2m composite
> DTM and 1m and 2m DSM They do intend to release a Tiled version next,
> and I think 50cm and 25cm are coming also
>
> What can we do with it?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Environment Agency LIDAR datasets OGL licensed now available

[SK53]

I've had a look at the LIDAR data for Attenborough NR and also the RSBP
Medmerry reserve (in the Hundred of Manhood near Selsey). I havent had a
full play but so far it hasnt picked up a small elevation difference which
affects the hydrology of Attenborough (thanks to Sandy Aitken, Volunteer
Reserve Manager for detailed analysis to find this out). See
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1qhmc1997kt9it/anr_terrain_contours_1m.png?dl=0.

Medmerry is rather more dramatic. I looked at this because of a twitter
discussion with Liz Scott (@birdmaps) & Amy Robjohns (@amyrobjohsn)
https://twitter.com/amythebirder/status/639688917625761792 . Medmerry is an
area of managed retreat and OSM is somewhat out-of-date, although it has
been partially surveyed. The Lidar data is more recent than any aerial
photos or OS StreetView (and I think VMD etc.) and in particular shows new
sea defences just S of the newly created gap. I havent processed this data
yet in such a way to really highlight the differences in the RSBP area. I
did notice that off Selsey there is a lot of clutter just off-shore (I
think this shoreline is rightly celebrated by wind surfers, so not a total
surprise. I havent tried to do any edits here because I wanted to leave it
in case Liz & Amy had time to tackle it at Southampton MapTime.

I do plan to blog about this, but, usual, will take some time to do so, as
I will include it in a general post on mapping nature reserves.

Jerry

On 22 September 2015 at 11:03, Chris Hill  wrote:

> Thanks for the plug Tim :-)
>
> The slippy map with relief tiles made from the data and optionally
> contours also made from the data is here: http://relief.raggedred.net.
> This covers a mostly very flat area, yet significant details are visible.
> It does show a number of places where ditches and other small water courses
> might be missing from OSM and therefore places to survey.
>
> The contours are minutely detailed using the 50cm data. If I was creating
> contours that are more generally useful I'd try the 2m data I think.
>
> --
> Cheers, Chris
> user: chillly
>
>
>
> On 22/09/15 10:39, Tim Waters wrote:
>
>> Ahh correction, there *is* data at 25cm and 50cm in some areas (where
>> flooding is a threat) but it looks as if the 1m and 2m covers the
>> country.
>>
>> Chris has written a post here also:
>> http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/more-lidar-goodness.html so
>> we're already playing with it.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On 22 September 2015 at 10:34, Tim Waters  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> back in June we had a thread announcing that this LIDAR data was due
>>> to be released. Well some of it has.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2015/09/18/laser-surveys-light-up-open-data/
>>>
>>> http://environment.data.gov.uk/ds/survey#/
>>>
>>> I think it's just for England, and appears to be 1m and 2m composite
>>> DTM and 1m and 2m DSM They do intend to release a Tiled version next,
>>> and I think 50cm and 25cm are coming also
>>>
>>> What can we do with it?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb