subject:"Re\: \[TruthTalk\] Beams and Motes"




Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON THIS. 
You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's self. IMO, 
those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do not!

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 13, 2005 21:22
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very 
  perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of 
  omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on 
  TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see 
  ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for 
  us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye 
  opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes 
  of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. 
  Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any 
  of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others 
  in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have 
  managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down 
  to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things 
  in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How 
  much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
  



Very perceptive, 
jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because others may have a 
critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the 
object

or focus of such criticism - 
at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own 
beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have long been 
  mystified by such, Terry.
  

From: Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes 
it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: 


How, you ask, did I figure 
that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT 
SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?

  
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON 
  TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE 
  NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How did you 
  figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you 
  contribute.Terry

  
  
 
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 
2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Taylor





Thanks Terry. Well stated and very insightful. 
Thanks for the honesty check.

Bill

-Original Message-From: 
Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgDate: 
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 7:21 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Beams and MotesI do not agree, Iz. In fact, I 
would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and 
there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other 
in any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is 
hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is 
true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I 
would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are 
squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over 
your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is 
any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See 
if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, 
this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have 
been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing 
grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your 
posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and 
Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 





Very 
perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because 
others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean 
there is sin in the object

or focus of 
such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on 
their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 Lance 
Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:


EXATAMUNDO! I have long 
been mystified by such, 
Terry.


From: Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are 
correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others 
see us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I 
figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, 
UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
THIS.?


From: Terry Clifton 



Lance Muir 
wrote: 

Speaking ONLY of 
expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never 
sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT 
SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
TT.
DUH! How 
did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you 
other guys 
every time you contribute.Terry



 
judyt 
He that says I know Him and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 
2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




This is quite rich coming from one who consistently 
maintains that noone can know anything anyway. I guess
you are the only one around here with a valid opinion 
now Lance (according to you that is) and from what I read
you don't believe there is any such thing as "objective 
truth" anyway so what could one be more deceived about
this which is probably why Jesus said we are to take 
care of our own beams and motes which makes us free
to love the other guy rather than consistently look for 
flaws in him. Hopefully Terry will not be taken 
in by your brand
of wisdom because it is from the other 
tree.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:11:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON THIS. 
  You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's self. IMO, 
  those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do not!
  
  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say 
not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are 
sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any 
post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for 
us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is 
also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest 
as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean 
in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last 
twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any 
meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if 
you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, 
this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have 
been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing 
grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your 
posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and 
Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 

  
  

  
  Very perceptive, 
  jt. iz
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Judy 
  TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
  December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
      [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
  
  
  Because others may have a 
  critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the 
  object
  
  or focus of such criticism - 
  at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own 
  beam.
  
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

EXATAMUNDO! I have long been 
mystified by such, Terry.

  
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  I suspect that you are 
  correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see 
  us.Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  How, you ask, did I figure 
  that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT 
  SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?
  

From: 
Terry Clifton 



Lance Muir wrote: 


Speaking ONLY of 
expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned 
ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT 
ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
TT.
DUH! How did you 
figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you 
contribute.Terry
  


   
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 
  2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are WITHOUT SIN raise your hands Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's self. IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do not!- Original Message - From: Terry
Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 21:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any
meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a
critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Kevin: Did you not know that there are CHRISTIAN 
PERFECTIONISTS on TT? They are three in number. I shan't ask them to identify 
themselves as that might exhibit pride and...well..you get it... 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 07:22
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN 
  
  Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are WITHOUT 
  SIN raise your hands
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON 
THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's self. 
IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do not!

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 13, 2005 21:22
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very 
  perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins 
  of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post 
  on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us 
  to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is 
  also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would 
  suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are 
  squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over 
  your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is 
  any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. 
  See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look 
  again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that 
  you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is 
  a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your 
  posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and 
  Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
  








Very 
perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because 
others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean 
there is sin in the object

or focus of 
such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on 
their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 
"Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have long 
  been mystified by such, 
  Terry.
  

From: 
Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are 
correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see 
us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I 
figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, 
UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
THIS.?

  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never 
  sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED 
  ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How did 
  you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you 
  contribute.Terry

  
  
 
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 
  2:4)
  
  
  
  Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! 
  Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




And let's add those who believe they are HONEST yet are 
only willing to see the other guys faults .

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 04:22:33 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN 
  Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are WITHOUT 
  SIN raise your hands
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON 
THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's self. 
IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do not!

From: Terry Clifton 

  I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would 
  say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and 
  there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the 
  other in any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that 
  it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement 
  is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees 
  us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks 
  that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the 
  following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them 
  closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of 
  them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others 
  in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you 
  have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or 
  down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see 
  these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable 
  failure. How much better are you and Judy 
  doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
  








Very 
perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because 
others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean 
there is sin in the object

or focus of 
such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on 
their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 
"Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have long 
  been mystified by such, 
  Terry.
  

From: 
Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are 
correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see 
us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I 
figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, 
UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
THIS.?

  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never 
  sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED 
  ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How did 
  you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you 
  contribute.Terry

  
  
 
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 
  2:4)
  
  
  
  Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! 
  Shopping 
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Cats are out of the bag. It was just obvious from 
reading them, wasn't it?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 07:29
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Gary Bill  JD?
  WOW I never knewLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Kevin: Did you not know that there are 
CHRISTIAN PERFECTIONISTS on TT? They are three in number. I shan't ask them 
to identify themselves as that might exhibit pride and...well..you get it... 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 07:22
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN 
  
  Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are 
  WITHOUT SIN raise your hands
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON 
THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's 
self. IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do 
not!

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 13, 2005 
  21:22
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams 
  and Motes
  I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very 
  perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are 
  sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in 
  any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is 
  hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement 
  is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees 
  us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who 
  thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the 
  following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine 
  them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any 
  of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for 
  others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how 
  well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking 
  with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, 
  you should see these things in at least fourteen of your 
  posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you 
  and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
  








Very 
perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: 
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because 
others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily 
mean there is sin in the object

or focus 
of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to 
work on their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 
-0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have 
  long been mystified by such, 
  Terry.
  

From: Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are 
correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others 
see us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I 
figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, 
UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
THIS.?

  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never 
  sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT 
  SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How 
  did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you 
  other guys every 
  time you contri

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




No, Judy!! I lied!! There is but ONE, and, IT IS 
ME" There, I've said it and, I'm proud to have done so!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 07:33
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Obviously you are not one of them Lance - so are you 
  going to oblige the rest of us by pointing the
  index finger now?
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:27:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Kevin: Did you not know that there are 
CHRISTIAN PERFECTIONISTS on TT? They are three in number. I shan't ask them 
to identify themselves as that might exhibit pride and...well..you get it... 


  From: Kevin Deegan 
  
  those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN 
  
  Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are 
  WITHOUT SIN raise your hands
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON 
THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's 
self. IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do 
not!

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 13, 2005 
  21:22
      Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams 
  and Motes
  I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very 
  perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are 
  sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in 
  any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is 
  hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement 
  is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees 
  us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who 
  thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the 
  following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine 
  them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any 
  of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for 
  others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how 
  well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking 
  with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, 
  you should see these things in at least fourteen of your 
  posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you 
  and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
  








Very 
perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: 
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
        [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because 
others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily 
mean there is sin in the object

or focus 
of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to 
work on their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 
-0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have 
  long been mystified by such, 
  Terry.
  

From: Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are 
correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others 
see us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I 
figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, 
UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
THIS.?

  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never 
  sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT 
  SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How 
  did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you 
  other guys every

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Judy:Speaking only for myself. My faults are ever 
before me. IFF they are ever before ME then, it follows that they are ever 
before the Lord and, even you.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 07:30
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  And let's add those who believe they are HONEST yet 
  are only willing to see the other guys faults .
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 04:22:33 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN 
Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are WITHOUT 
SIN raise your hands
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON 
  THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's 
  self. IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do 
  not!
  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would 
say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and 
there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the 
other in any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that 
it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that 
statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord 
sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who 
thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the 
following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them 
closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of 
them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for 
others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how 
well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking 
with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you 
should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am 
a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy 
doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 

  
  
  
  

  
  
  
  Very 
  perceptive, jt. iz
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Judy 
  TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
  December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
  [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
  
  
  Because 
  others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean 
  there is sin in the object
  
  or focus of 
  such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on 
  their own beam.
  
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 
  -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

EXATAMUNDO! I have long 
been mystified by such, 
Terry.

  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  I suspect that you are 
  correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see 
  us.Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  How, you ask, did I 
  figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, 
  UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
  THIS.?
  

From: Terry Clifton 



Lance Muir wrote: 


Speaking ONLY of 
expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never 
sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED 
ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
TT.
DUH! How did 
you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you 
contribute.Terry
  


   
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 
2:4)



Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! 
Shopping 
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

Doesn't this make you one? For you must be W/O sin to cast this stoneLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin: Did you not know that there are CHRISTIAN PERFECTIONISTS on TT? They are three in number. I shan't ask them to identify themselves as that might exhibit pride and...well..you get it... - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 14, 2005 07:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motesthose who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are WITHOUT SIN raise your hands Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's self. IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do not!
- Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 13, 2005 21:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see
us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.On Tue,
13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




I've answered this in a subsequent 
post.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 07:49
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Doesn't this make you one? For you must be W/O sin to cast 
  this stoneLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  

Kevin: Did you not know that there are 
CHRISTIAN PERFECTIONISTS on TT? They are three in number. I shan't ask them 
to identify themselves as that might exhibit pride and...well..you get it... 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 07:22
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN 
  
  Are there Christian perfectionists on TT?All those that are 
  WITHOUT SIN raise your hands
  Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Terry:I believe that YOU FAIL THE LEAST ON 
THIS. You raised an important point when speaking of not knowing one's 
self. IMO, those who believe themselves to be WITHOUT SIN do 
not!

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 13, 2005 
  21:22
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams 
  and Motes
  I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very 
  perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are 
  sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in 
  any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is 
  hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement 
  is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees 
  us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who 
  thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the 
  following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine 
  them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any 
  of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for 
  others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how 
  well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking 
  with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, 
  you should see these things in at least fourteen of your 
  posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you 
  and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
  








Very 
perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: 
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because 
others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily 
mean there is sin in the object

or focus 
of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to 
work on their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 
-0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have 
  long been mystified by such, 
  Terry.
  

From: Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are 
correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others 
see us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I 
figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, 
UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
THIS.?

  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never 
  sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT 
  SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How 
  did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you 
  other guys every 
  time you contri

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Terry Clifton





I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the
parson with low esteem?
How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do
what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look
it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on
a colt. Possibly as an example to us?
To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?
Terry


Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  
  Self rejection happenswhen children are
either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When
  one israised in an unloving atmosphere
they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable
making
  it difficult to understand or receive the
love of God.
  
  The world adds to the problem with
unrealistic standards especially in the
area of perfection and body image - 
  thinness for women and Gk perfection for
men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
  people reject themselves when they don't
measure up rather than giving thanks for being
fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?

Judy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would say
that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that.
  What he did say is that he didn't know
of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before
  the Lord. I would say the same. At
this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the
ignorance
  that comes with pride... either way it
is all self, self, self, self. judyt
  



  
  

judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
 is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting 
humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, 
perhaps.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 08:14
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, 
  or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract 
  from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? 
  I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and 
  lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite 
  honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
  you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 
  
Self rejection happenswhen children are 
either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. 
When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere they 
tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable 
making
it difficult to understand or receive the love of 
God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic 
standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and 
too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't measure up 
rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and 
wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor 
  wrote: 
  

Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would say that they 
are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said 
that.
What he did say is that he didn't know of any 
sin but that did not mean he was justified completely 
before
the Lord. I would say the same. At 
this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the 
ignorance
that comes with pride... either way it is all 
self, self, self, self. judyt

   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all 
about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
  FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says about a 
situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted 
pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is 
true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
private - this is also laying down their own 
life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly write 
  reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I 
  don't, perhaps.
  
From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is this then 
the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low 
esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's 
ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am 
too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and 
lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be 
quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Self rejection happenswhen children are 
  either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. 
  When
  one israised in an unloving atmosphere 
  they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable 
  making
  it difficult to understand or receive the 
  love of God.
  
  The world adds to the problem with 
  unrealistic standards especially in the 
  area of perfection and body image - 
  
  thinness for women and Gk perfection for men 
  and too many times this becomes a 
  graven image or idol and 
  people reject themselves when they don't 
  measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy 
Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would say 
  that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said 
  that.
  What he did say is that he didn't know of 
  any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely 
  before
  the Lord. I would say the 
  same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just 
  assinful as the ignorance
  that comes with pride... either way it is 
  all self, self, self, self. judyt
  
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU 
CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. 
Can you?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 09:11
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all 
  about your opinions orme.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  True humility Lance is saying what God says about 
  a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
  while grovelling while saying it is inverted 
  pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
  and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that 
  is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
  private - this is also laying down their own 
  life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
battle
  rages.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
There are two on TT who regularly write 
reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I 
don't, perhaps.

  From: Terry Clifton 
  I see. Is this 
  then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low 
  esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's 
  ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I 
  am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek 
  and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To 
  be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
  you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 
  

Self rejection happenswhen children 
are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. 
When
one israised in an unloving 
atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are 
unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive the 
love of God.

The world adds to the problem with 
unrealistic standards especially in the 
area of perfection and body image - 

thinness for women and Gk perfection for 
men and too many times this becomes a 
graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't 
measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Could you explain what you mean by self 
  rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 
  

Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would say 
that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself 
said that.
What he did say is that he didn't know 
of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely 
before
the Lord. I would say the 
same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just 
assinful as the ignorance
that comes with pride... either way it 
is all self, self, self, self. judyt

   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

Possibly any or all of what you mention and yes it does
keep one from wholeheartedly laying down their life for
others and causesthe heart to be less than
pure. I'm sure a lot of the behaviors you observed as a prison
guard
were the result of these kinds of issues. The
enemyover the years (because of violence and lack of love)built

strongholds in the hearts of these ppl in their
childhoodand in prison the outworking is
evident. I saw Jeffrey
Dahmer's father on TV
recently and he said that he also had the dark kinds of dreams that Dahmer had
in his
childhood, the only difference beingthat the boy acted on them and followed through where the father
did not ;
Dahmer's mother had a difficult pregnancy and she
tookmassive doses of anti depressant drugs
whilepregnant
with him which would have added to the
mix.In Christ we covenantto work our
issuesout in a different way which
is through repentance,
turning from sin and embracing His righteousness
through the cross. His promise is
"If you continue in My Word
you will know the truth and the truth will make you
free".

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:14:00 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the
parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from
one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am
too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly,
riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I
do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do
you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote:

Self rejection happenswhen children are
either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents.
When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere they
tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive the love of
God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic
standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many
times this becomes a graven image or idol and people
reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for
being fearfully and wonderfully made.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor
wrote:

Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would say that they
are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said
that.
What he did say is that he didn't know of any
sin but that did not mean he was justified completely
before
the Lord. I would say the same. At
this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the
ignorance
that comes with pride... either way it is all
self, self, self, self. judyt

judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




True humility Lance is saying what God says about a 
situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted 
pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is 
true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
private - this is also laying down their own 
life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly write 
  reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, 
  perhaps.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Terry Clifton 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: December 14, 2005 08:14
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
Motes
I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the 
world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or 
subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the 
mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to 
town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to 
us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. 
Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Self rejection happenswhen children are 
  either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. 
  When
  one israised in an unloving atmosphere they 
  tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable 
  making
  it difficult to understand or receive the love of 
  God.
  
  The world adds to the problem with unrealistic 
  standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
  thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and 
  too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
  people reject themselves when they don't measure 
  up rather than giving thanks for being 
  fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy 
Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would say that 
  they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said 
  that.
  What he did say is that he didn't know of any 
  sin but that did not mean he was justified completely 
  before
  the Lord. I would say the same. 
  At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as 
  the ignorance
  that comes with pride... either way it is all 
  self, self, self, self. judyt
  
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY 
THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 08:45
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  True humility Lance is saying what God says about a 
  situation or subject; personal opinion, even
  while grovelling while saying it is inverted 
  pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
  and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is 
  true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
  private - this is also laying down their own 
  life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
  rages.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
There are two on TT who regularly write 
reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, 
perhaps.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 08:14
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the 
  world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to 
  or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on 
  the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He 
  came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an 
  example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem 
  on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 
  

Self rejection happenswhen children are 
either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. 
When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere 
they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable 
making
it difficult to understand or receive the love 
of God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic 
standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection for men 
and too many times this becomes a 
graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't 
measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy 
  Taylor wrote: 
  

Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would say that 
they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said 
that.
What he did say is that he didn't know of 
any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely 
before
the Lord. I would say the same. 
At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as 
the ignorance
that comes with pride... either way it is 
all self, self, self, self. judyt

   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to 
you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive it by faith 
as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
depending on what you have going on in your own 
heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES 
  YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
  READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can 
  you?
  
From: Judy Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all 
about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
  FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says 
about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted 
pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. 
that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend 
in
private - this is also laying down their own 
life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly write 
  reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I 
  don't, perhaps.
  
From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is this 
then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low 
esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's 
ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? 
I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town 
meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to 
us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on 
TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Self rejection happenswhen children 
  are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. 
  When
  one israised in an unloving 
  atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they 
  are unlovable making
  it difficult to understand or receive the 
  love of God.
  
  The world adds to the problem with 
  unrealistic standards especially in the 
  area of perfection and body image - 
  
  thinness for women and Gk perfection for 
  men and too many times this becomes a 
  graven image or idol and 
  people reject themselves when they don't 
  measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self 
rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would say 
  that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself 
  said that.
  What he did say is that he didn't 
  know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified 
  completely before
  the Lord. I would say the 
  same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just 
  assinful as the ignorance
  that comes with pride... either way 
  it is all self, self, self, self. judyt
  
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




God can always speak through His Word and it does 
not return void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David and I see 
things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication 
skills.

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 09:25
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to 
  you.
  When I cite scripture - you either receive it by 
  faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
  depending on what you have going on in your own 
  heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
  IMO you are more attuned to human 
reason.
  
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES 
YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. 
Can you?

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not 
  all about your opinions orme.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  True humility Lance is saying what God says 
  about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
  while grovelling while saying it is inverted 
  pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
  megaphone
  and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. 
  that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend 
  in
  private - this is also laying down their own 
  life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
  battle
  rages.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
There are two on TT who regularly write 
reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because 
I don't, perhaps.

  From: Terry Clifton 
  I see. Is this 
  then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low 
  esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's 
  ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the 
  mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that 
  He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly 
  as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low 
  esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
  you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 
  

Self rejection happenswhen 
children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical 
parents. When
one israised in an unloving 
atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they 
are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive 
the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with 
unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection 
and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection 
for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol 
and 
people reject themselves when they 
don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Could you explain what you mean by self 
  rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 
  

Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would 
say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul 
himself said that.
What he did say is that he didn't 
know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified 
completely before
the Lord. I would say the 
same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection 
just assinful as the ignorance
that comes with pride... either way 
it is all self, self, self, self. judyt

   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.OR Lance's opinions OF you and others! that is a different list called People talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE
HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec
2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came
to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

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Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or what you 
believe other than the theologians
you approve and a list of other professing 
Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et al. We 
may not get every detail exact but so far as I can
tell we do agree about what is important - and that isthe authority of 
God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  God can always speak through His Word and it does not return 
  void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David and I see things 
  somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication 
  skills.
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  
I don't agree but 
then I'm sure this is no news to you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive it by 
faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
depending on what you have going on in your own 
heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human 
reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU CITE 
  ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
  READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can 
  you?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not 
all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY 
  THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says 
about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is 
inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. 
that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend 
in
private - this is also laying down their 
own life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly write 
  reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's 
  because I don't, perhaps.
  
From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is 
this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson 
with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract 
from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on 
the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me 
that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. 
Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not 
see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Self rejection happenswhen 
  children are either rejected by parents or have overly 
  critical parents. When
  one israised in an unloving 
  atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because 
  they are unlovable making
  it difficult to understand or receive 
  the love of God.
  
  The world adds to the problem with 
  unrealistic standards especially in the area of 
  perfection and body image - 
  thinness for women and Gk perfection 
  for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or 
  idol and 
  people reject themselves when they 
  don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self 
rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would 
  say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul 
  himself said that.
  What he did say is that he didn't 
  know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified 
  completely before
  the Lord. I would say the

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Should I happen to cite the Matthean geneaology in 
support of some unrelated matter, it'd be GOD'S WORD TO BE SURE, JUDY BUTYou 
do attempt to connect the citation to the matter at hand, do you not? 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 09:25
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to 
  you.
  When I cite scripture - you either receive it by 
  faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
  depending on what you have going on in your own 
  heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
  IMO you are more attuned to human 
reason.
  
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES 
YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. 
Can you?

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not 
  all about your opinions orme.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  True humility Lance is saying what God says 
  about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
  while grovelling while saying it is inverted 
  pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
  megaphone
  and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. 
  that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend 
  in
  private - this is also laying down their own 
  life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
  battle
  rages.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
There are two on TT who regularly write 
reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because 
I don't, perhaps.

  From: Terry Clifton 
  I see. Is this 
  then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low 
  esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's 
  ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the 
  mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that 
  He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly 
  as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low 
  esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
  you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 
  

Self rejection happenswhen 
children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical 
parents. When
one israised in an unloving 
atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they 
are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive 
the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with 
unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection 
and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection 
for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol 
and 
people reject themselves when they 
don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Could you explain what you mean by self 
  rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 
  

Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would 
say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul 
himself said that.
What he did say is that he didn't 
know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified 
completely before
the Lord. I would say the 
same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection 
just assinful as the ignorance
that comes with pride... either way 
it is all self, self, self, self. judyt

   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
 
  judy

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




If you haven't noticed so far Lance, what good would it 
do me to try to explain at this late date?
Guess this is why the prophets always said "Let him who 
has ears to hear."

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:00:39 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Should I happen to cite the Matthean geneaology 
  in support of some unrelated matter, it'd be 
  GOD'S WORD TO BE SURE, JUDY BUTYou do attempt 
  to connect the citation to the matter at hand, do you not? 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to 
you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive it by 
faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
depending on what you have going on in your own 
heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human 
reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE 
  SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
  READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. 
  Can you?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not 
all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
  FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says 
about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is 
inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. 
that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend 
in
private - this is also laying down their 
own life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly 
  write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's 
  because I don't, perhaps.
  
From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is 
this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson 
with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract 
from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on 
the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me 
that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. 
Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not 
see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Self rejection happenswhen 
  children are either rejected by parents or have overly 
  critical parents. When
  one israised in an unloving 
  atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because 
  they are unlovable making
  it difficult to understand or receive 
  the love of God.
  
  The world adds to the problem with 
  unrealistic standards especially in the area of 
  perfection and body image - 
  thinness for women and Gk perfection 
  for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or 
  idol and 
  people reject themselves when they 
  don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self 
rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would 
  say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul 
  himself said that.
  What he did say is that he didn't 
  know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified 
  completely before
  the Lord. I would say the 
  same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection 
  just assinful as the ignorance
  that comes with pride... either 
  way it is all self,

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice versa. Kevin 
et al do the same with the Mormons.

I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once 
again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say (believe)? 


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 10:21
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Now if you had said Joseph Smith  
  Brigham Young your observation may have carried some 
  weight
  Lance. However, I've yet to 
  seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their false belief 
  system
  he takes issue 
  with and in doing this he confronts them with their own 
  contradictions.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH THAT'S 
CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems 
to be about all you've got goin' for ya..

  From: Kevin Deegan 
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not 
  all about your opinions orme.
  
  OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
  that is a different list called People talkJudy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not 
all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
  FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says 
about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is 
inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. 
that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend 
in
private - this is also laying down their 
own life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly 
  write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's 
  because I don't, perhaps.
  
From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is 
this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson 
with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract 
from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on 
the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me 
that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. 
Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not 
see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Self rejection happenswhen 
  children are either rejected by parents or have overly 
  critical parents. When
  one israised in an unloving 
  atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because 
  they are unlovable making
  it difficult to understand or receive 
  the love of God.
  
  The world adds to the problem with 
  unrealistic standards especially in the area of 
  perfection and body image - 
  thinness for women and Gk perfection 
  for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or 
  idol and 
  people reject themselves when they 
  don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self 
rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would 
  say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul 
  himself said that.
  What he did say is that he didn't 
  know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

Ignorance, thy name is Judy!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: December 14, 2005 10:28
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes

  You say the words Lance but your actions say you are 
  adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the authority of 

  God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST 
  toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic 
  theologians.

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY OF 
GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE 
BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. 
IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. 

  From: Judy Taylor 

  Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or 
  what you believe other than the theologians
  you approve and a list of other professing 
  Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly.
  As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et 
  al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I 
  can
  tell we do 
  agree about what is important - and that 
  isthe authority of God's Word.

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

God can always speak through His Word and it does not 
return void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David and I 
see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor 
communication skills.

From: Judy Taylor 

  I don't agree 
  but then I'm sure this is no news to you.
  When I cite scripture - you either receive it 
  by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
  depending on what you have going on in your 
  own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
  IMO you are more attuned to human 
  reason.

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES 
YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can 
you?

  From: Judy Taylor 

  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It 
  is not all about your opinions orme.

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
HIMILITY'?

  From: Judy Taylor 

  True humility Lance is saying what 
  God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, 
  even
  while grovelling while saying it is 
  inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
  megaphone
  and accurately speaks the oracles of 
  God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a 
  friend in
  private - this is also laying down 
  their own life. Because God's Word is that around which 
  the battle
  rages.

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

There are two on TT who regularly write 
reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's 
because I don't, perhaps.

  From: Terry Clifton 

  I see. 
  Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the 
  parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to 
  or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests 
  in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it 
  up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, 
  riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to 
  us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a 
  problem on TT. Do 
  you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 

Self rejection 
happenswhen children are either rejected by 
parents or have overly critical parents. 
When
one israised in an

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your 
beliefs then, I am criticizing your person

No you wouldn't be because you don't know my 
person. What you are talking about is religious/racial 
bigotry
which is a misnomer. It is possible to love the 
person and reject their belief. God did it when he sent 
Jesus
Jesus did it when he hung on the cross - and we 
can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and 
strife.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your 
  beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice versa. Kevin et al do the 
  same with the Mormons.
  
  I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once again. Is 
  there a great gulf between who you are and what you say (believe)? 
  
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Now if you had said Joseph Smith  
Brigham Young your observation may have carried some 
weight
Lance. However, I've yet to 
seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their false 
belief system he takes 
issue with and in doing this he confronts them 
with their own contradictions.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH THAT'S CALLED 
  ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
  this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be 
  about all you've got goin' for ya..
  
From: Kevin Deegan 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not 
all about your opinions orme.

OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
that is a different list called People talkJudy 
Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  

  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is 
  not all about your opinions orme.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  True humility Lance is saying what God 
  says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, 
  even
  while grovelling while saying it is 
  inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
  megaphone
  and accurately speaks the oracles of God 
  .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend 
  in
  private - this is also laying down their 
  own life. Because God's Word is that around which the 
  battle
  rages.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
There are two on TT who regularly write 
reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's 
because I don't, perhaps.

  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  I see. Is 
  this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson 
  with low esteem?How would this condition add to or 
  subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the 
  sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it 
  seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a 
  colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite 
  honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do 
  you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 
  

Self rejection happenswhen 
children are either rejected by parents or have overly 
critical parents. When
one israised in an unloving 
atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because 
they are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or 
receive the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with 
unrealistic standards especially in the area of 
perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk 
perfection for men and too many times this becomes 
a graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they 
don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge 

And since God's Word is the wisdom that comes 
from above and you are the one with the human 
theological mediators ... I would say your observation is more true foryou 
Lance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Ignorance, thy name is Judy!
  
From: Judy Taylor 

You say the words Lance but your actions say you 
are adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the 
authority of 
God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST 
toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic 
theologians.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY 
  OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF 
  SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER 
  AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. 
  
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or 
what you believe other than the theologians
you approve and a list of other professing 
Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et 
al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I 
can
tell we do 
agree about what is important - and that 
isthe authority of God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  God can always speak through His Word and it does 
  not return void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David 
  and I see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own 
  poor communication skills.
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  
I don't 
agree but then I'm sure this is no news to you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive 
it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead 
letter
depending on what you have going on in your 
own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human 
reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES 
  YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
  READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can 
  you?
  
From: Judy Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. 
It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
  FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
  HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what 
God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, 
even
while grovelling while saying it is 
inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles 
of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them 
to a friend in
private - this is also laying down 
their own life. Because God's Word is that around 
which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly write 
  reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, 
  that's because I don't, perhaps.
  
From: Terry 
Clifton 
I 
see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the 
world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this 
condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do 
what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I 
am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He 
came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. 
Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I 
do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

I will ponder such as I gaze out upon the waters The Sunset was quite beautiful last night over lake ErieLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE DAVEH THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 14, 2005 09:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and MotesThis list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.OR Lance's opinions OF you and others! that is a different list called People talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and
accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is
because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

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Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

See, case in point, Lance's Semi Private "PEOPLE TALK" networkLance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE DAVEH THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 14, 2005 09:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and MotesThis list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.OR Lance's opinions OF you and others! that is a different list called People talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and
accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is
because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

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Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

You wear your beliefs on your sleve!Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your personNo you wouldn't be because you don't know my person. What you are talking about is religious/racial bigotry which is a misnomer. It is possible to love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he sent Jesus Jesus did it when he hung on the cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and strife.On
Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the Mormons.I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say (believe)? From: Judy Taylor Now if you had said Joseph Smith
Brigham Young your observation may have carried some weight Lance. However, I've yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their false belief system he takes issue with and in doing this he confronts them with their own contradictions.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE DAVEH THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..From: Kevin Deegan This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.OR Lance's opinions OF you and others! that is a different list called People talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or
of one speaks them to a friend in private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see.
Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of
God.The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Could you explain what
you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shoppingjudyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
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RE: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread ShieldsFamily









Youll have to ask the LordHe
hasnt convicted me of anything on my last 20 posts as yet. iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005
8:22 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and
Motes





I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not
very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins
of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on
TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see
ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for
us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye
opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes
of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts.
Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any
of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in
your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have
managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down
to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in
at least fourteen of your posts.

I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?
Terry


ShieldsFamily wrote: 

Very perceptive, jt. iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005
3:18 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re:
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes









Because others may have a critical and
jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object





or focus of such criticism - at times it
means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.











On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 Lance
Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such,
Terry.







From: Terry
Clifton 










I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is
hard to see ourselves as others see us.

Lance Muir wrote: 



How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same
way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?







From: Terry
Clifton 









Lance Muir wrote: 



Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL
participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE
HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.



DUH! How did you figure that out?
I can spot the sins in you other
guys every time you contribute.
Terry

















judyt

He that says I know Him and doesn't keep His Commandments

is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your personOK so we should not criticize beliefs. But criticizing the person is OK in your book Good ol Self Refutin Lance...Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your personNo you wouldn't be because you don't know my person. What you are talking about is religious/racial bigotry which is a misnomer. It is possible to love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he sent Jesus Jesus did it when he hung on the cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and strife.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the Mormons.
I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say (believe)? From: Judy Taylor Now if you had said Joseph Smith Brigham Young your observation may have carried some weight Lance. However, I've yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their false belief system he takes issue with and in doing this he confronts them with their own contradictions.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005
09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE DAVEH THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..From: Kevin Deegan This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.OR Lance's opinions OF you and others! that is a
different list called People talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy
Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: Hi Terry, I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that. What he did say is that he didn't know of
any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a
liar (1 John 2:4)Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shoppingjudyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




I, for one, have no difficulty at all criticizing 
the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. The difficulty is that some who are, in 
reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do they 
not?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Meaning that all evangelism and preaching the gospel 
  should cease because we can not be
  critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
  criticizing them personally?? IOW let the deceived
  stay captive to the devil. Lord forbid that we 
  should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling stone
  and a rock of offense ... or has he now become 
  fashionable in his new "living" form?
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it do you? 
If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
person

OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
But criticizing the person is OK in your book
Good ol Self Refutin Lance...

Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick 
you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for 
ya..Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize 
  your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person
  
  No you wouldn't be because you don't know 
  my person. What you are talking about is religious/racial 
  bigotry
  which is a misnomer. It is possible to 
  love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he sent 
  Jesus
  Jesus did it when he hung on the cross - 
  and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and 
  strife.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize 
your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice versa. Kevin 
et al do the same with the Mormons.

I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once again. 
Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say (believe)? 


  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  Now if you had said Joseph Smith 
   Brigham Young your observation may have carried some 
  weight
  Lance. However, I've yet to 
  seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their false 
  belief system he takes 
  issue with and in doing this he confronts 
  them with their own contradictions.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH THAT'S 
CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to 
be about all you've got goin' for ya..

  From: Kevin Deegan 
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It 
  is not all about your opinions orme.
  
  OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
  that is a different list called People talkJudy 
  Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



This list is called Truth Talk Lance. 
It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
  FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
  HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what 
God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, 
even
while grovelling while saying it is 
inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a 
megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles 
of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them 
to a friend in
private - this is also laying down 
their own life. Because God's Word is that around 
which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  There are two on TT who regularly write 
  reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but,

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Every deceived person believes themselves to be 
"in the truth"
Deceived people don't know they are deceived - 
this is the nature of the beast.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:43:47 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I, for one, have no difficulty at all criticizing 
  the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. 
  The difficulty is that some who are, in reality 
  deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do they not?
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Meaning that all evangelism and preaching the 
gospel should cease because we can not be
critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
criticizing them personally?? IOW let the deceived
stay captive to the devil. Lord forbid that 
we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling stone
and a rock of offense ... or has he now become 
fashionable in his new "living" form?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get it do 
  you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
  person
  
  OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
  But criticizing the person is OK in your book
  Good ol Self Refutin Lance...
  
  Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon 
  kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for 
  ya..Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize 
your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person

No you wouldn't be because you don't 
know my person. What you are talking about is religious/racial 
bigotry
which is a misnomer. It is possible to 
love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he sent 
Jesus
Jesus did it when he hung on the cross 
- and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and 
strife.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice 
  versa. Kevin et al do the same with the Mormons.
  
  I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once 
  again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say 
  (believe)? 
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Now if you had said Joseph Smith 
 Brigham Young your observation may have carried some 
weight
Lance. However, I've yet to 
seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their 
false belief system he 
takes issue with and in doing this he 
confronts them with their own contradictions.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH THAT'S 
  CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
  this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems 
  to be about all you've got goin' for ya..
  
From: Kevin Deegan 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. 
It is not all about your opinions orme.

OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
that is a different list called People 
talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  

  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. 
  It is not all about your opinions orme.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT 
FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
HIMILITY'?

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  True humility Lance is saying 
  what God says about a situation or subject; personal 
  opinion, even
  while grovelling while saying it 
  is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there 
  with a megaphone
  and accurately speaks the oracles 
  of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks 
  them to a friend in
  private - this is also laying 
  down their own life. Because God's Word is that 
  around which the battle
  rages.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir"

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




That, Judy, is what I've been attempting to say, 
apparently with minimal success. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 13:46
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Every deceived person believes themselves to 
  be "in the truth"
  Deceived people don't know they are deceived 
  - this is the nature of the beast.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:43:47 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. 
The difficulty is that some who are, in reality 
deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do they not?

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Meaning that all evangelism and preaching the 
  gospel should cease because we can not be
  critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
  criticizing them personally?? IOW let the deceived
  stay captive to the devil. Lord forbid that 
  we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling stone
  and a rock of offense ... or has he now become 
  fashionable in his new "living" form?
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it do 
you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
person

OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
But criticizing the person is OK in your 
book
Good ol Self Refutin Lance...

Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon 
kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for 
ya..Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person
  
  No you wouldn't be because you don't 
  know my person. What you are talking about is religious/racial 
  bigotry
  which is a misnomer. It is possible 
  to love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he 
  sent Jesus
  Jesus did it when he hung on the 
  cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and 
  strife.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice 
versa. Kevin et al do the same with the Mormons.

I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once 
again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say 
(believe)? 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Now if you had said Joseph Smith 
   Brigham Young your observation may have carried some 
  weight
  Lance. However, I've yet to 
  seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their 
  false belief system he 
  takes issue with and in doing this he 
  confronts them with their own 
contradictions.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH THAT'S 
CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 

this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on 
seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..

  From: Kevin Deegan 
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. 
  It is not all about your opinions orme.
  
  OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
  that is a different list called People 
  talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



This list is called Truth Talk 
Lance. It is not all about your opinions 
orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH 
  WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
  HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy Taylor 


True humility Lance is saying 
what God says about a situation or subject; personal 
opinion

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Funny thing, Judy, I've always though of you as 
your own 'FANCY THEOLOGIAN'. Over time one cannot but note that others have 
thought similarly. The 'Judy theology' is generally well researched and, on the 
whole, readable.

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 13:57
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  And I've been attempting to say to you that 
  there is such a thing as objective truth a light that shines 
  
  into the darknes of the unregenerate human 
  heartwhich is the Word of the Living God untainted 
  and
  unfiltered through human reason and/or 
  fancy theologians  which,when we choose 
  to abide therein
  will make us free.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:50:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
That, Judy, is what I've been attempting to 
say, apparently with minimal success. 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Every deceived person believes themselves 
  to be "in the truth"
  Deceived people don't know they are 
  deceived - this is the nature of the beast.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:43:47 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. 
The difficulty is that some who are, in 
reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do they 
not?

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  Meaning that all evangelism and preaching the 
  gospel should cease because we can not be
  critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
  criticizing them personally?? IOW let the deceived
  stay captive to the devil. Lord forbid 
  that we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling 
  stone
  and a rock of offense ... or has he now 
  become fashionable in his new "living" form?
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it 
do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing 
your person

OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
But criticizing the person is OK in your 
book
Good ol Self Refutin Lance...

Kevin, this so-called 
anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got 
goin' for ya..Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
  person
  
  No you wouldn't be because you 
  don't know my person. What you are talking about is 
  religious/racial bigotry
  which is a misnomer. It is 
  possible to love the person and reject their belief. God did 
  it when he sent Jesus
  Jesus did it when he hung on the 
  cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin 
  and strife.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, 
vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the 
Mormons.

I've asked you previously. I shall ask you 
once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what 
you say (believe)? 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Now if you had said Joseph 
  Smith  Brigham Young your observation may have carried 
  some weight
  Lance. However, I've 
  yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, 
  it's their false belief system he takes issue with 
  and in doing this he confronts them with their own 
  contradictions.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH 
THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 

this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on 
seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..

  From: Kevin Deegan

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge I have thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on the far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. 

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge 
And since God's Word is the wisdom that comes from above and you are the one with the human 
theological mediators ... I would say your observation is more true foryou Lance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ignorance, thy name is Judy!

From: Judy Taylor 

You say the words Lance but your actions say you are adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the authority of 
God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic theologians.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. 

From: Judy Taylor 

Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or what you believe other than the theologians
you approve and a list of other professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I can
tell we do agree about what is important - and that isthe authority of God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

God can always speak through His Word and it does not return void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David and I see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication skills.


From: Judy Taylor 

I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
depending on what you have going on in your own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can you?

From: Judy Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.

From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 


Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 


Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that.
What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before
the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance
that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt

 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Then it is past time to do some more figuring Lance 
because you have missed the boat so to speak.
I am not about trying to explain God which is the 
Church Father/theologian forte. If He does not illumine
His Word to you - then there is nothing I could say or 
do that would help. 

Hey out there!! Does anyone other than Lance think that I am a "FANCY THEOLOGIAN?" or is this 
another
example ofLance's vivid imagination and fanciful 
thinking. judyt

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:15:16 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Funny thing, Judy, I've always though of you as 
  your own 'FANCY THEOLOGIAN'. Over time one cannot but note 
  that others have thought similarly. The 'Judy theology' is generally 
  well researched and, on the whole, readable.
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  

And I've been attempting to say to you that 
there is such a thing as objective truth a light that shines 

into the darknes of the unregenerate human 
heartwhich is the Word of the Living God untainted 
and
unfiltered through human reason and/or 
fancy theologians  which,when we choose 
to abide therein
will make us free.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:50:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  That, Judy, is what I've been attempting to 
  say, apparently with minimal success. 
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Every deceived person believes 
themselves to be "in the truth"
Deceived people don't know they are 
deceived - this is the nature of the beast.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:43:47 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
  criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. 
  The difficulty is that some who are, in 
  reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do they 
  not?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Meaning that all evangelism and preaching 
the gospel should cease because we can not be
critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
criticizing them personally?? IOW let the 
deceived
stay captive to the devil. Lord 
forbid that we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling 
stone
and a rock of offense ... or has he now 
become fashionable in his new "living" form?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get 
  it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am 
  criticizing your person
  
  OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
  But criticizing the person is OK in your 
  book
  Good ol Self Refutin Lance...
  
  Kevin, this so-called 
  anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got 
  goin' for ya..Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
person

No you wouldn't be because you 
don't know my person. What you are talking about is 
religious/racial bigotry
which is a misnomer. It is 
possible to love the person and reject their belief. God 
did it when he sent Jesus
Jesus did it when he hung on 
the cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full 
of sin and strife.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, 
  vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the 
  Mormons.
  
  I've asked you previously. I shall ask you 
  once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what 
  you say (believe)? 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Now if you had said Joseph 
Smith  Brigham Young your observation may have carried 
some weight
Lance. However, I've 
yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, 
it's their false belief system he takes issue with 
and in doing this he confronts them with their own 
contradictions.

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


No -- my comcast connection must be doing it. I noticed this morning a post that was sent three times. I figure it is Deegan's demon spirit indwelling my computer -- No?

jd

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

JD why do I get two (2) of everything you send to the Truth Talk list; are you emphasizing
or is it a bug in the works?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:32:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge I have thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on the far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. 

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge 
And since God's Word is the wisdom that comes from above and you are the one with the human 
theological mediators ... I would say your observation is more true foryou Lance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ignorance, thy name is Judy!

From: Judy Taylor 

You say the words Lance but your actions say you are adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the authority of 
God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic theologians.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. 

From: Judy Taylor 

Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or what you believe other than the theologians
you approve and a list of other professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I can
tell we do agree about what is important - and that isthe authority of God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

God can always speak through His Word and it does not return void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David and I see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication skills.


From: Judy Taylor 

I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
depending on what you have going on in your own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can you?

From: Judy Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.

From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 


Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 


Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




And why are you deliberately trying to tweak 
Linda? She is a godly woman and It's time to 'get a life' JD. 

Opinions are out, well thought out discussion ideas and/or personal anecdotes are 
in along with godly 
speech that will edify and 
encourage those who read you ... Are you up to the 
task?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:47:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So, when were you going to tell me what was so appalling 
  withthatpost of several days ago, Linda, 
  or, have you decided that your imitation of the Mouth of the 
  Southwas a sufficient display of your walk with God and 
  nothing else is important? You are one rebellious babe. jd
  
  From: 
"ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 








Youll have to ask 
the LordHe hasnt convicted me of anything on my last 20 posts as 
yet. iz





From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Terry 
Clifton
I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not 
very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are 
sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any 
post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for 
us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is 
also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest 
as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean 
in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last 
twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any 
meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if 
you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, 
this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have 
been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing 
grade, yo u should see these things in at least fourteen of your 
posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and 
Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 

Very perceptive, jt. 
iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSp am] Re: 
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because others may have a critical 
and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the 
object

or focus of such criticism - at 
times it means the person looking needs to work on their own 
beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have long been 
  mystified by such, 
  Terry.
  

From: Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes 
it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: 


How, you ask, did I figure 
that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT 
SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM 
THIS.?

  
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON 
  TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE 
  NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How did you 
  figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you 
  contribute.Terry

  
  
 
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




If any demon spirit is indwelling you or your computer 
it is there because you permit it JD.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:01:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  No -- my comcast connection must be doing it. I noticed 
  this morning a post that was sent three times. I figure it is 
  Deegan's demon spirit indwelling my computer -- No? jd
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

JD why do I get two (2) of everything you send to 
the Truth Talk list; are you emphasizing
or is it a bug in the works?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:32:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Actually ignorance is a form of 
  knowledge I have 
  thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on the 
  far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. 
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Actually ignorance is a form of 
knowledge 
And since God's Word is the wisdom that 
comes from above and you are the one with the human 

theological mediators ... 
I would say your observation 
is more true foryou Lance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Ignorance, thy name is Judy!
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

You say the words Lance but your actions 
say you are adouble-minded man.If 
youbelieved in the authority of 
God's Word then it would be impossible for 
you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern 
humanistic theologians.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the 
  AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE 
  SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING 
  ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER 
  TO YA. 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Lance, I honestly do not know what you 
see or what you believe other than the theologians
you approve and a list of other 
professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things 
similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean 
et al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I 
can
tell we do 
agree about what is important - and 
that isthe authority of God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  God can always speak through His Word and it 
  does not return void. On the other matter, as you already 
  know, you, David and I see things somewhat differently. It may 
  indeed be due to my own poor communication 
skills.
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  
I 
don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to 
you.
When I cite scripture - you either 
receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead 
letter
depending on what you have going on 
in your own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith 
whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human 
reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE 
  SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
  
  READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with 
  that. Can you?
  
From: Judy Taylor 


This list is called Truth Talk 
Lance. It is not all about your opinions 
orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH 
  WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
  HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy Taylor

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Actually, Judy, it is very much the other way around, or is this yet another case of you speaking about that of which you know nothing. Might try reading Shields posted insult and then look for her follow-up explanation (hint: it ain't there). 


jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

And why are you deliberately trying to tweak Linda? She is a godly woman and It's time to 'get a life' JD. 
Opinions are out, well thought out discussion ideas and/or personal anecdotes are in along with godly 
speech that will edify and encourage those who read you ... Are you up to the task?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:47:21 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So, when were you going to tell me what was so appalling withthatpost of several days ago, Linda, or, have you decided that your imitation of the Mouth of the Southwas a sufficient display of your walk with God and nothing else is important? You are one rebellious babe. jd

From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 








Youll have to ask the LordHe hasnt convicted me of anything on my last 20 posts as yet. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton
I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, yo
 u should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
Very perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSp am] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object

or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry.


From: Terry Clifton 


I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?


From: Terry Clifton 


Lance Muir wrote: 

Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.
DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry



 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


I sent it to your computer. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

If any demon spirit is indwelling you or your computer it is there because you permit it JD.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:01:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

No -- my comcast connection must be doing it. I noticed this morning a post that was sent three times. I figure it is Deegan's demon spirit indwelling my computer -- No? jd

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

JD why do I get two (2) of everything you send to the Truth Talk list; are you emphasizing
or is it a bug in the works?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:32:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge I have thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on the far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. 

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge 
And since God's Word is the wisdom that comes from above and you are the one with the human 
theological mediators ... I would say your observation is more true foryou Lance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ignorance, thy name is Judy!

From: Judy Taylor 

You say the words Lance but your actions say you are adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the authority of 
God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic theologians.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. 

From: Judy Taylor 

Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or what you believe other than the theologians
you approve and a list of other professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I can
tell we do agree about what is important - and that isthe authority of God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

God can always speak through His Word and it does not return void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David and I see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication skills.


From: Judy Taylor 

I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
depending on what you have going on in your own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can you?

From: Judy Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.

From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 


Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




check again JD - it is still working with you and 
yours.. No problem here!!

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:16:41 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I sent it to your computer. jd
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

If any demon spirit is indwelling you or your 
computer it is there because you permit it JD.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:01:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  No -- my comcast connection must be doing it. I 
  noticed this morning a post that was sent three times. I 
  figure it is Deegan's demon spirit indwelling my computer -- 
  No? jd
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

JD why do I get two (2) of everything you send 
to the Truth Talk list; are you emphasizing
or is it a bug in the works?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:32:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Actually ignorance is a form of 
  knowledge I have 
  thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on 
  the far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. 
  
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Actually ignorance is a form of 
knowledge 
And since God's Word is the wisdom 
that comes from above and you are the one with the human 

theological mediators ... 
I would say your 
observation is more true foryou Lance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Ignorance, thy name is 
  Judy!
  
From: Judy Taylor 

You say the words Lance but your 
actions say you are adouble-minded man.If 
youbelieved in the authority of 
God's Word then it would be impossible 
for you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post 
modern humanistic theologians.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the 
  AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE 
  SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR 
  CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO 
  THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Lance, I honestly do not know what 
you see or what you believe other than the 
theologians
you approve and a list of other 
professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things 
similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, 
Dean et al. We may not get every detail exact but so 
far as I can
tell we 
do agree about what is important 
- and that isthe authority of God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  God can always speak through His Word 
  and it does not return void. On the other matter, as you 
  already know, you, David and I see things somewhat 
  differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor 
  communication skills.
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  
I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news 
to you.
When I cite scripture - you 
either receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it 
as a dead letter
depending on what you have 
going on in your own heart. Truth is apprehended 
by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to 
human reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE 
  SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
  
  READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live 
  with that. Can you?
  
From:

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


this is a second posting from you. 

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

If any demon spirit is indwelling you or your computer it is there because you permit it JD.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:01:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

No -- my comcast connection must be doing it. I noticed this morning a post that was sent three times. I figure it is Deegan's demon spirit indwelling my computer -- No? jd

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

JD why do I get two (2) of everything you send to the Truth Talk list; are you emphasizing
or is it a bug in the works?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:32:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge I have thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on the far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. 

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge 
And since God's Word is the wisdom that comes from above and you are the one with the human 
theological mediators ... I would say your observation is more true foryou Lance.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ignorance, thy name is Judy!

From: Judy Taylor 

You say the words Lance but your actions say you are adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the authority of 
God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic theologians.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. 

From: Judy Taylor 

Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or what you believe other than the theologians
you approve and a list of other professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly.
As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I can
tell we do agree about what is important - and that isthe authority of God's Word.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

God can always speak through His Word and it does not return void. On the other matter, as you already know, you, David and I see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication skills.


From: Judy Taylor 

I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to you.
When I cite scripture - you either receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter
depending on what you have going on in your own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas
IMO you are more attuned to human reason.


On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS 
READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can you?

From: Judy Taylor 

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.

From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 


Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

Lance, Do you believe yourself to be "in the truth"?Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I, for one, have no difficulty at all criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. The difficulty is that some who are, in reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do they not?- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 14, 2005 13:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and MotesMeaning that all evangelism and preaching the gospel should cease because we can not be critical of anyones beliefs because this is criticizing them personally?? IOW let the deceived stay captive to the devil. Lord forbid that we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling stone and a rock of offense ... or has he now become fashionable in his new "living" form?On Wed, 14 Dec
2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your personOK so we should not criticize beliefs. But criticizing the person is OK in your book Good ol Self Refutin Lance...Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your personNo you wouldn't be because you don't know my person. What you are talking about is religious/racial bigotry which is a misnomer. It is possible to love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he sent Jesus Jesus did it when he hung on the cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and strife.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:You really don't get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the Mormons.I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say (believe)? From: Judy Taylor Now if you had said Joseph Smith Brigham Young your observation may have carried some weight Lance. However, I've yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their false belief system
he takes issue with and in doing this he confronts them with their own contradictions.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE DAVEH THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..From: Kevin Deegan This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.OR Lance's opinions OF you and others! that is a different list called People talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH
WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the
mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 De

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Is this a trick question, Deegan? After John 
connecting you with demons in his computer, I find myself somewhat cautious in 
responding to such as yourself.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 16:07
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Lance,
  Do you believe yourself to be "in the truth"?Lance Muir 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. The difficulty is that some 
who are, in reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do 
they not?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 14, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes
  
  Meaning that all evangelism and preaching the 
  gospel should cease because we can not be
  critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
  criticizing them personally?? IOW let the deceived
  stay captive to the devil. Lord forbid that 
  we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling stone
  and a rock of offense ... or has he now become 
  fashionable in his new "living" form?
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it do 
you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
person

OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
But criticizing the person is OK in your 
book
Good ol Self Refutin Lance...

Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon 
kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for 
ya..Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person
  
  No you wouldn't be because you don't 
  know my person. What you are talking about is religious/racial 
  bigotry
  which is a misnomer. It is possible 
  to love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he 
  sent Jesus
  Jesus did it when he hung on the 
  cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin and 
  strife.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, vice 
versa. Kevin et al do the same with the Mormons.

I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once 
again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say 
(believe)? 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  Now if you had said Joseph Smith 
   Brigham Young your observation may have carried some 
  weight
  Lance. However, I've yet to 
  seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their 
  false belief system he 
  takes issue with and in doing this he 
  confronts them with their own 
contradictions.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH THAT'S 
CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 

this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on 
seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..

  From: Kevin Deegan 
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance. 
  It is not all about your opinions orme.
  
  OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
  that is a different list called People 
  talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



This list is called Truth Talk 
Lance. It is not all about your opinions 
orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH 
  WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
  HIMILITY'?
  
From: Judy Taylor 


True humility Lance is saying

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

In computers they are daemons[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:No -- my comcast connection must be doing it. I noticed this morning a post that was sent three times. I figure it is Deegan's demon spirit indwelling my computer -- No?jd-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD why do I get two (2) of everything you send to the Truth Talk list; are you emphasizing or is it a bug in the works?On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:32:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge I have thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on the far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge And since God's Word is the wisdom that comes from above and you are the one with the human theological mediators ... I would say your observation is more true foryou Lance.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Ignorance, thy name is Judy!From: Judy Taylor You say the words Lance but your actions say you are adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the authority of God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic theologians.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. From: Judy Taylor Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or what you believe other than the theologians you approve and a list of other professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly. As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I can tell we do agree about what is important - and that isthe authority of God's Word.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:God can always speak through His Word and it does not return void. On the other matter, as you
already know, you, David and I see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication skills. From: Judy Taylor I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to you. When I cite scripture - you either receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter depending on what you have going on in your own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas IMO you are more attuned to human reason. On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500 "Lance Muir"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can you?From: Judy Taylor This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in private - this is
also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How
would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.The world adds to
the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully made. On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Could you explain what

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

testing 1 2 3 testingJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: check again JD - it is still working with you and yours.. No problem here!!On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:16:41 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I sent it to your computer. jdFrom: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] If any demon spirit is
indwelling you or your computer it is there because you permit it JD.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:01:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:No -- my comcast connection must be doing it. I noticed this morning a post that was sent three times. I figure it is Deegan's demon spirit indwelling my computer -- No? jdFrom: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD why do I get two (2) of everything you send to the Truth Talk list; are you emphasizing or is it a bug in the works?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:32:48 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge I have thought all along that this was a viable definition for some of you on the far right. now, at long last, it is confirmed. From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually ignorance is a form of knowledge And since God's Word is the wisdom that comes from above and you are the one with the human
theological mediators ... I would say your observation is more true foryou Lance.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:52 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Ignorance, thy name is Judy!From: Judy Taylor You say the words Lance but your actions say you are adouble-minded man.If youbelieved in the authority of
God's Word then it would be impossible for you ATST toendorse Barth/Torrance, and other post modern humanistic theologians.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:17:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Judy: I ,Myownself believe in the AUTHORITY OF GOD'S WORD. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, BELIEVE THAT THE SIMPLE CITATION OF SCRIPTRE BY YOU OR, BY ANYONE OF THEIR CHOOSING ALWAYS SETTLES THE 'MATTER AT HAND'. IF Y'ALL DO THEN, MORE POWER TO YA. From: Judy Taylor Lance, I honestly do not know what you see or what you believe other than the theologians you approve and a list of other professing Christianswho are orthodox and see things similarly. As for David, Kevin, Izzy, Terry, Dean et al. We may not get every detail exact but so far as I can tell we do agree about what is important - and that isthe authority of God's Word.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:43:57 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:God can always speak through His Word and it does not return void. On the other
matter, as you already know, you, David and I see things somewhat differently. It may indeed be due to my own poor communication skills. From: Judy Taylor I don't agree but then I'm sure this is no news to you. When I cite scripture - you either receive it by faith as God's Word or you read it as a dead letter depending on what you have going on in your own heart. Truth is apprehended by faith whereas IMO you are more attuned to human reason. On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:18:48 -0500
"Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:YOUR OPINIONS re: the MEANING OF THE SCRIPTURES YOU CITE ARE WHAT, IMO, I AND OTHERS READ MOST OF THE TIME. I can live with that. Can you?From: Judy Taylor This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?From: Judy Taylor True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in private
- this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle rages.On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.From: Terry Clifton I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low
esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.The
world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




How ironic Lance; you are constantly asking me these 
kinds of questions.
So why are they suspect when they come your 
way?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:10:33 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Is this a trick question, Deegan? After John 
  connecting you with demons in his computer, I find myself somewhat cautious in 
  responding to such as yourself.
  
From: Kevin Deegan 

Lance,
Do you believe yourself to be "in the truth"?Lance Muir 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
  criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. The difficulty is that some 
  who are, in reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the truth' do 
  they not?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Meaning that all evangelism and preaching the 
gospel should cease because we can not be
critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
criticizing them personally?? IOW let the deceived
stay captive to the devil. Lord forbid 
that we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling 
stone
and a rock of offense ... or has he now become 
fashionable in his new "living" form?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get it 
  do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing 
  your person
  
  OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
  But criticizing the person is OK in your 
  book
  Good ol Self Refutin Lance...
  
  Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon 
  kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for 
  ya..Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
person

No you wouldn't be because you 
don't know my person. What you are talking about is 
religious/racial bigotry
which is a misnomer. It is possible 
to love the person and reject their belief. God did it when he 
sent Jesus
Jesus did it when he hung on the 
cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full of sin 
and strife.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, 
  vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the Mormons.
  
  I've asked you previously. I shall ask you once 
  again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what you say 
  (believe)? 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Now if you had said Joseph 
Smith  Brigham Young your observation may have carried some 
weight
Lance. However, I've yet 
to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's 
their false belief system he takes issue with and 
in doing this he confronts them with their own 
contradictions.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH 
  THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
  
  this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on 
  seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..
  
From: Kevin Deegan 


This list is called Truth Talk 
Lance. It is not all about your opinions 
orme.

OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
that is a different list called People 
talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  

  This list is called Truth Talk 
  Lance. It is not all about your opinions 
  orme.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH 
WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE 
HIMILITY'?

  From: Judy Taylor

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




Is everything you write to TT a joke 
Lance?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:43:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Nothing ironic here, Judy. I was havin' a little 
  fun with Kevin. Is 'fun' a secular work or, may it contain a 'spiritual 
  component'? I opt for the latter. 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

How ironic Lance; you are constantly asking me 
these kinds of questions.
So why are they suspect when they come your 
way?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:10:33 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Is this a trick question, Deegan? After John 
  connecting you with demons in his computer, I find myself somewhat 
  cautious in responding to such as yourself.
  
From: Kevin Deegan 

Lance,
Do you believe yourself to be "in the truth"?Lance 
Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
  criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. The difficulty is that 
  some who are, in reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the 
  truth' do they not?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Meaning that all evangelism and preaching 
the gospel should cease because we can not be
critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
criticizing them personally?? IOW let the 
deceived
stay captive to the devil. Lord 
forbid that we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling 
stone
and a rock of offense ... or has he now 
become fashionable in his new "living" form?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get 
  it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am 
  criticizing your person
  
  OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
  But criticizing the person is OK in your 
  book
  Good ol Self Refutin Lance...
  
  Kevin, this so-called 
  anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got 
  goin' for ya..Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
person

No you wouldn't be because you 
don't know my person. What you are talking about is 
religious/racial bigotry
which is a misnomer. It is 
possible to love the person and reject their belief. God 
did it when he sent Jesus
Jesus did it when he hung on 
the cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full 
of sin and strife.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, 
  vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the 
  Mormons.
  
  I've asked you previously. I shall ask you 
  once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what 
  you say (believe)? 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Now if you had said Joseph 
Smith  Brigham Young your observation may have carried 
some weight
Lance. However, I've 
yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, 
it's their false belief system he takes issue with 
and in doing this he confronts them with their own 
contradictions.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH 
  THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
  
  this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're 
  on seems to be about all you've got goin' for 
  ya..
  
From: Kevin Deegan 


This list is called Truth Talk 
Lance. It is not all about your opinions 
orme.

OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes




As for fun having a spiritual component - of course, 
all of it does; the question is - What spirit

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:43:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Nothing ironic here, Judy. I was havin' a little 
  fun with Kevin. Is 'fun' a secular work or, 
  may it contain a 'spiritual component'? I opt for 
  the latter. 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

How ironic Lance; you are constantly asking me 
these kinds of questions.
So why are they suspect when they come your 
way?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:10:33 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  Is this a trick question, Deegan? After John 
  connecting you with demons in his computer, I find myself somewhat 
  cautious in responding to such as yourself.
  
From: Kevin Deegan 

Lance,
Do you believe yourself to be "in the truth"?Lance 
Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

  
  I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
  criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. The difficulty is that 
  some who are, in reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in the 
  truth' do they not?
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

Meaning that all evangelism and preaching 
the gospel should cease because we can not be
critical of anyones beliefs because this is 
criticizing them personally?? IOW let the 
deceived
stay captive to the devil. Lord 
forbid that we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling 
stone
and a rock of offense ... or has he now 
become fashionable in his new "living" form?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get 
  it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am 
  criticizing your person
  
  OK so we should not criticize beliefs.
  But criticizing the person is OK in your 
  book
  Good ol Self Refutin Lance...
  
  Kevin, this so-called 
  anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got 
  goin' for ya..Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
person

No you wouldn't be because you 
don't know my person. What you are talking about is 
religious/racial bigotry
which is a misnomer. It is 
possible to love the person and reject their belief. God 
did it when he sent Jesus
Jesus did it when he hung on 
the cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world full 
of sin and strife.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person and, 
  vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the 
  Mormons.
  
  I've asked you previously. I shall ask you 
  once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and what 
  you say (believe)? 
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Now if you had said Joseph 
Smith  Brigham Young your observation may have carried 
some weight
Lance. However, I've 
yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, 
it's their false belief system he takes issue with 
and in doing this he confronts them with their own 
contradictions.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH 
  THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
  
  this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're 
  on seems to be about all you've got goin' for 
  ya..
  
From: Kevin Deegan 


This list is called Truth Talk 
Lance. It is not all about your opinions 
orme.

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

ROTFLOL!!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: December 14, 2005 16:53
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and 
  Motes

  Is everything you write to TT a joke 
  Lance?

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:43:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

Nothing ironic here, Judy. I was havin' a 
little fun with Kevin. Is 'fun' a secular work or, may it contain a 
'spiritual component'? I opt for the latter. 

  From: Judy Taylor 

  How ironic Lance; you are constantly asking me 
  these kinds of questions.
  So why are they suspect when they come your 
  way?

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:10:33 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

Is this a trick question, Deegan? After 
John connecting you with demons in his computer, I find myself somewhat 
cautious in responding to such as yourself.

  From: Kevin Deegan 

  Lance,
  Do you believe yourself to be "in the truth"?Lance 
  Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:

I, for one, have no difficulty at all 
criticizing the'deceived' as you put it, Judy. The difficulty is 
that some who are, in reality deceived, believe themselves to be 'in 
the truth' do they not?

  From: Judy Taylor 

  Meaning that all evangelism and preaching 
  the gospel should cease because we can not be
  critical of anyones beliefs because this 
  is criticizing them personally?? IOW let the 
  deceived
  stay captive to the devil. Lord 
  forbid that we should offend anyone. Is Jesus a stumbling 
  stone
  and a rock of offense ... or has he now 
  become fashionable in his new "living" form?

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:49:55 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

You really don't 
get it do you? If I were to criticize your beliefs then, I am 
criticizing your person

OK so we should not criticize 
beliefs.
But criticizing the person is OK in your 
book
Good ol Self Refutin Lance...

Kevin, this so-called 
anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got 
goin' for ya..Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  You really don't get it do you? If I were to 
  criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your 
  person

  No you wouldn't be because 
  you don't know my person. What you are talking about is 
  religious/racial bigotry
  which is a misnomer. It is 
  possible to love the person and reject their belief. God 
  did it when he sent Jesus
  Jesus did it when he hung on 
  the cross - and we can do it as His Ambassadors in a world 
  full of sin and strife.

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:37:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

You really don't get it do you? If I were 
to criticize your beliefs then, I am criticizing your person 
and, vice versa. Kevin et al do the same with the 
Mormons.

I've asked you previously. I shall ask you 
once again. Is there a great gulf between who you are and 
what you say (believe)? 

  From: Judy Taylor 

  Now if you had said 
  Joseph Smith  Brigham Young your observation may have 
  carried some weight
  Lance. However, 
  I've yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH 
  personally, it's their false belief system 
  he takes 
  issue with and in doing this he 
  confronts them with their own 
  contradictions.

  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:

OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Dean Moore









- Original Message - 
From: Terry Clifton 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/13/2005 9:22:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a mis
erable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?Terry

cd: How does this passage fit into to your above statement? Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath a ear let him hear the Spirit said unto the Churches;... Kinda gets confusion if one adds this to a lovey dovey religion huh? Nicolaitanes were make believe Christians-as are Mormons.ShieldsFamily wrote: 









Very perceptive, jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: Tr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object

or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry.


From: Terry Clifton 


I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?


From: Terry Clifton 


Lance Muir wrote: 

Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.
DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry



 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Dean Moore

cd: Well said and amen.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/13/2005 9:54:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weildedthose cords in the temple either according to theoutward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like?and remember thatlove covers a multitude of sin ... <
FONT color=#008040>If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. Thereis responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one'sown navel for fear of offending.  judyt

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failur
e. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 

Very perceptive, jt. iz

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: Tr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object

or focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry.

From: Terry Clifton 

I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: 

How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?

From: Terry Clifton 

Lance Muir wrote: 

Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.
DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry

 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Dean Moore









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/14/2005 9:57:41 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE  DAVEH THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, this so-called anti-Mormon kick you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..
cd: Actually he used the KJ to defeat this entire room including me Lance. Give some respect at least for that feat.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: December 14, 2005 09:44
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.

OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
that is a different list called People talkJudy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




This list is called Truth Talk Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Let me attempt something, Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?

From: Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a friend in
private - this is also laying down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

There are two on TT who regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but, that's because I don't, perhaps.

From: Terry Clifton 
I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the parson with low esteem?How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on a colt. Possibly as an example to us?To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?TerryJudy Taylor wrote: 


Self rejection happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly critical parents. When
one israised in an unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because they are unlovable making
it difficult to understand or receive the love of God.

The world adds to the problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection and body image - 
thinness for women and Gk perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol and 
people reject themselves when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
made.


On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?Judy Taylor wrote: 


Hi Terry,
I don't know that any of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that.
What he did say is that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before
the Lord. I would say the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance
that comes with pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt

 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)



Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Terry Clifton





Dean Moore wrote:

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Terry Clifton 
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
12/13/2005 9:22:58 PM 
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not
very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are
sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in
any post on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to
see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is
also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest
as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky
clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last
twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any
humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love
for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how
well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking
with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should
see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.

I am a mis
erable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?
Terry

cd: How does this passage fit into to
your above statement? Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the
deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath a ear let
him hear the Spirit said unto the Churches;... Kinda gets confusion if
one adds this to a lovey dovey religion huh? Nicolaitanes were make
believe Christians-as are Mormons.

  



  

I think it fits very well, Dean. I hate the deeds
of the Mormons, but I do not hate them. I pray, though not often
enough, for Dave to see the truth. I would love to be certain that he
was my brother. Right now I am fairly certain he will spend eternity
in Hell, and I don't even want that for Ted Kennedy, much less anyone I
know. I think the confusion comes when we sneer and mock those with
whom we disagree . Jesus did not agree with those who would praise Him
one day and call for His crucifixtion shortly thereafter. Yet He did
not stop loving them. He told us how He would rather take them under
His wing and protect them than condemn them to Hell. If you call that
lovey dovey religeon, count me as lovey dovey.By the way, I have seen
some love for others in your posts. I think I will probably see more
of it as you grow in Christ. Right now, the fervor to love ratio justs
seems a little out of whack. Maybe we can both try harder.

  

Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread ttxpress




over anyone's 
thinkin' but yours

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:50:32 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  ..
  we do agree about what is 
  important - and that isthe authority of God's Word.
  
  ||

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Dave Hansen





This list is called Truth Talk Lance

DAVEH: Is that is what is known as a misnomer???

Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance.
It is not all about your opinions orme.
  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-14 Thread Dave Hansen





I've yet to seeKevin comment on Blaine
or DaveH personally

DAVEH: Does calling another TTer a LIAR qualify as an ad-hom attack,
Judy?

Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  Now if you had said Joseph Smith
 Brigham Young your observation may have carried some weight
  Lance. However, I've yet to
seeKevin comment on Blaine or DaveH personally, it's their false
belief system
  he takes issue with and in doing this he confronts them with
their own contradictions.
  
  On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:56:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
OR YOUR OPINIONS OF BLAINE 
DAVEH THAT'S CALLED ANTI MORMONISM!! Come to think of it, Kevin, 
this so-called anti-Mormon kick
you're on seems to be about all you've got goin' for ya..

  From:
  Kevin Deegan 
  
  This list is called Truth Talk Lance.
It is not all about your opinions orme.
  
  OR Lance's opinions OF you and others!
  that is a different list called People talk
  
  Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  


This list is called Truth Talk
Lance. It is not all about your opinions orme.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:51:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  Let me attempt something,
Judy. WITH WHAT FREQUENCY THEN, DO YOU EXHIBIT THIS 'TRUE HIMILITY'?
  
From:
Judy Taylor 

True humility Lance is saying
what God says about a situation or subject; personal opinion, even
while grovelling while saying it
is inverted pride. When a preacher gets out there with a megaphone
and accurately speaks the
oracles of God .. that is true humility. Or of one speaks them to a
friend in
private - this is also laying
down their own life. Because God's Word is that around which the battle
rages.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:33:54 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

  There are two on TT who
regularly write reflecting humility. I'm suspect of one of them but,
that's because I don't, perhaps.
  
From:
Terry Clifton 


I see. Is this then the sin of the parents, or the world, or the
parson with low esteem?
How would this condition add to or subtract from one's ability to do
what Jesus suggests in the sermon on the mount? I am too lazy to look
it up but it seems to me that He came to town meek and lowly, riding on
a colt. Possibly as an example to us?
To be quite honest, I do not see low esteem as a problem on TT. Do you?
Terry


Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  Self rejection
happenswhen children are either rejected by parents or have overly
critical parents. When
  one israised in an
unloving atmosphere they tend to accept the lie that this is because
they are unlovable making
  it difficult to understand
or receive the love of God.
  
  The world adds to the
problem with unrealistic standards especially in the area of perfection
and body image - 
  thinness for women and Gk
perfection for men and too many times this becomes a graven image or idol
and 
  people reject themselves
when they don't measure up rather than giving thanks for being fearfully and wonderfully 
  made.
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:14:35 -0600 Terry Clifton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
Could you explain what you mean by self
rejection?

Judy Taylor wrote: 

  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any
of us would say that they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul
himself said that.
  What he did say is
that he didn't know of any sin but that did not mean he was justified
completely before
  the Lord. I would say
the same. At this point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful
as the ignorance
  that comes with
pride... either way it is all self, self, self, self. judyt
  



  
  

judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
 is a liar (1 John 2:4)


  
  



judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
 is a liar (1 John 2:4)
  
  



judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
 is a liar (1 John 2:4)
  
  
  
   
   Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo!
Shopping 

  
  

judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His

RE: Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-13 Thread ShieldsFamily









Very perceptive, jt. iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005
3:18 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re:
[TruthTalk] Beams and Motes







Because others may have a critical and
jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the object





or focus of such criticism - at times it
means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.











On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 Lance
Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:







EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such,
Terry.







From: Terry
Clifton 










I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is
hard to see ourselves as others see us.

Lance Muir wrote: 



How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same
way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?







From: Terry
Clifton 









Lance Muir wrote: 



Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL
participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE
HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.



DUH! How did you figure that out?
I can spot the sins in you other
guys every time you contribute.
Terry

















judyt

He that says I know Him and doesn't keep His Commandments

is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-13 Thread Judy Taylor




According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming 
you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, 
only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears 
outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He 
weildedthose cords in the temple either according to theoutward look 
of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the 
places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what 
the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of 
us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is 
working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call 
what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have 
seen/known me before. Tell me - what does 
"boldness to speak the truth" look like?and remember thatlove covers 
a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it 
don't stone us, pray for us. Thereis responsibility on both sides 
and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time 
examining one'sown navel for fear of offending.  
judyt

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at 
  all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it 
  is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT.  
  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see 
  us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as 
  the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here 
  who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the 
  following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them 
  closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of 
  them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in 
  your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have 
  managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down 
  to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things 
  in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How 
  much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: 
  
  



Very perceptive, 
jt. iz





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Tuesday, 
December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: 
    [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes


Because others may have a 
critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the 
object

or focus of such criticism - 
at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own 
beam.



On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  EXATAMUNDO! I have long been 
  mystified by such, Terry.
  

From: Terry Clifton 



I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes 
it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: 


How, you ask, did I figure 
that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT 
SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?

  
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  
  
  
  Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  
  Speaking ONLY of 
  expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON 
  TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE 
  NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM 
  TT.
  DUH! How did you 
  figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you 
  contribute.Terry

  
  
 
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes





I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves.
Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied
with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better
than I do. Congratulations on doing so well.
Terry



Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  
  According to your scale of measure Terry -
and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are
judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you
are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not
have appeared too humble on the day He weildedthose cords in the
temple either according to theoutward look of humility and neither
would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he
barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the
ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of
us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God
who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am
not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure"
You should have seen/known me before. Tell
me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like?and remember
thatlove covers a multitude of sin ... If
you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. Thereis
responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to
function while all the time examining one'sown navel for fear of
offending.  judyt
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive
at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission,
and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. 
I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as
others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to
see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener,
that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes
of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts.
Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in
any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others
in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have
managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down
to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things
in at least fourteen of your posts.

I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?
Terry


ShieldsFamily wrote: 

  

  
  
  Very
perceptive, jt. iz
  
  
  
   
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  On Behalf Of Judy
Taylor
  Sent: Tuesday,
December 13, 2005 3:18 PM
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Subject: [Norton
AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
  
  
  
  Because
others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean
there is sin in the object
  
  
  or
focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to
work on their own beam.
  
  
  
  
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43
-0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
  

EXATAMUNDO! I have long
been mystified by such, Terry.


  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  

  
  I
suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as
others see us.
  
Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  How, you ask, did I
figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE,
THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?
  
  

From: Terry Clifton 




Lance
Muir wrote: 

Speaking
ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never
sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT
ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.

DUH!
How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you
contribute.
Terry
  
  




  
  

judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
 is a liar (1 John 2:4)
  



  
  

judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
 is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-13 Thread Kevin Deegan

Is this talk just more FALSE PIETY? Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for
others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin
in the objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can
spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-13 Thread Kevin Deegan

I guess that when one is doing "miserably" there is always a tendancy to that natural blindness that sees everyone else must be also.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well.TerryJudy Taylor wrote: According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart
and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weildedthose cords in the temple either according to theoutward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like?and remember thatlove covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. Thereis responsibility on both sides and only one
Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one'sown navel for fear of offending. judytOn Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last
twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.On Tue, 13 Dec 2005
09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you other guys every time you contribute.Terry judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes





Not a tendancy, Kev. Just commenting on the obvious. How did you
score? Let me know so that I can feel edified.


Kevin Deegan wrote:

  I guess that when one is doing "miserably" there
is always a tendancy to that natural blindness that sees everyone else
must be also.
  
  Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I
am not judging you Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves.
Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied
with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better
than I do. Congratulations on doing so well.
Terry



Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  According to your scale of measure
Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one
you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart
and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would
not have appeared too humble on the day He weildedthose cords in the
temple either according to theoutward look of humility and neither
would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he
barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what the
ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of
us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God
who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am
not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure"
You should have seen/known me before. Tell
me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like?and remember
thatlove covers a multitude of sin ... If
you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. Thereis
responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to
function while all the time examining one'sown navel for fear of
offending.  judyt
  
  On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very
perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of
omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post
on TT.  I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see
ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also
hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as
an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky
clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last
twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any
humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love
for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how
well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking
with, or down to. If seventy percent is a passing grade, you should
see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.

I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?
Terry


ShieldsFamily wrote: 

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Very
perceptive, jt. iz
  
  
  
   
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  On Behalf Of Judy
Taylor
  Sent: Tuesday,
December 13, 2005 3:18 PM
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
      Subject:
[Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes
  
  
  
  Because others may
have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is
sin in the object
  
  
  or focus of such
criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their
own beam.
  
  
  
  
  
  On Tue,
13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  
  

EXATAMUNDO!
I have long been mystified by such, Terry.


  
  From: Terry Clifton 
  
  
  

  
  I
suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as
others see us.
  
Lance Muir wrote: 
  
  How, you
ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU,
TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.?
  
  

From: Terry Clifton 




Lance
Muir wrote: 

Speaking
ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never
sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT
ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT.

DUH!
How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you oth

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes

2005-12-13 Thread Kevin Deegan

Doing your part to Edify? "Let me know so that I can feel edified""Congratulations on doing so well."Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not a tendancy, Kev. Just commenting on the obvious. How did you score? Let me know so that I can feel edified.Kevin Deegan wrote: I guess that when one is doing "miserably" there is always a tendancy to that natural blindness that sees everyone else must be also.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not judging you
Judy. I asked everyone here to judge themselves. Evidently you have given this much consideration and are well satisfied with yourself. That surprises me, but then you know yourself better than I do. Congratulations on doing so well.TerryJudy Taylor wrote: According to your scale of measure Terry - and assuming you know everything there is to know about the one you are judging. However, only God actually sees and knows the heart and you are judging by how it appears outwardly ... Jesus himself would not have appeared too humble on the day He weildedthose cords in the temple either according to theoutward look of humility and neither would Paul have appeared too humble in some of the places where he barged in like a street preacher and began speaking against what
the ppl believed in (because they had been raised in it). I think all of us are aware of our own human shortcomings but facts are - it is God who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure and I am not about to call what He has done in my life a "miserable failure" You should have seen/known me before. Tell me - what does "boldness to speak the truth" look like?and remember thatlove covers a multitude of sin ... If you think we are missing it don't stone us, pray for us. Thereis responsibility on both sides and only one Judge. It's impossible to function while all the time examining one'sown navel for fear of offending. judytOn Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:22:20 -0600 Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I do not agree, Iz. In fact, I would say not very perceptive at all. There are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, and it is not too hard to find one or the other in any post on TT. I stand by my statement that it is hard for us to see ourselves as others see us, and if that statement is true, it is also hard for us to see ourselves as the Lord sees us. I would suggest as an eye opener, that anyone on here who thinks that they are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Lord do the following: Go back over your last twenty posts. Examine them closely. See if there is any meekness, any humility in any of them. Then look again. See if you can see any love for others in your words. Finally, look again, this time to see how well you have managed to edify the Saints that you have been talking with, or down to. If seventy percent is a
passing grade, you should see these things in at least fourteen of your posts.I am a miserable failure. How much better are you and Judy doing?TerryShieldsFamily wrote: Very perceptive, jt. izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:18 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes Because others may have a critical and jaundiced eye does not necessarily mean there is sin in the
objector focus of such criticism - at times it means the person looking needs to work on their own beam.On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:34:43 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
EXATAMUNDO! I have long been mystified by such, Terry. From: Terry Clifton I suspect that you are correct. Sometimes it is hard to see ourselves as others see us.Lance Muir wrote: How, you ask, did I figure that out, Terry? The same way you did. ARE YOU, TERRY, UNAWARE, THAT SOME EXCLUDE THEMSELVES FROM THIS.? From: Terry Clifton Lance Muir wrote: Speaking ONLY of expressions on TT, may I ask ALL participants who have never sinned ON TT to identify themselves. IMO, NOT ONE HAS NOT SINNED ON TT ALONE NEVER MIND THEIR LIVES APART FROM TT. DUH! How did you figure that out? I can spot the sins in you
other guys every time you contribute.Terry
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4) Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Yahoo! Shopping
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Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes





Could you explain what you mean by self rejection?

Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  
  Hi Terry,
  I don't know that any of us would say that
they are "self satisfied" in fact not even Paul himself said that.
  What he did say is that he didn't know of
any sin but that did not mean he was justified completely before
  the Lord. I would say the same. At this
point in my walk I see self rejection just assinful as the ignorance
  that comes with pride... either way it is
all self, self, self, self. judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Beams and Motes