Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 02:29 +0200, Amahdy wrote: I'm wondering why starting from 9.10 the boot loader started to be an infinite loop progressbar (like windows always does)?? This was discussed at length during the last few days. Check this thread in the archives: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-January/010492.html -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 20:08 +0100, Mario Vukelic wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 02:29 +0200, Amahdy wrote: I'm wondering why starting from 9.10 the boot loader started to be an infinite loop progressbar (like windows always does)?? This was discussed at length during the last few days. Check this thread in the archives: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2010-January/010492.html Which was, as I realize now, a discussion started by you in the first place. You really should get yourself a proper email client to follow the list, then you would not miss such things. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
Olá MPR e a todos. On Monday 25 January 2010 17:32:47 MPR wrote: I'm a highly-technical user and I like having no text during boot. My laptop goes from the HP logo to black screen and then the Ubuntu logo. It looks nice, clean, and professional. If something goes wrong, I can always hit esc to make the GRUB menu come up at boot and edit the entry to remove quiet splash to see the messages for debugging. You mean left shift, cause ESC does nothing in GRUB2 -- BUGabundo :o) (``-_-´´) Ubuntu LoCoTeam Portugal http://ubuntu-pt.org Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB http://BUGabundo.net -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:58:09 -0300 From: Brian Vidal Castillo dae...@gmail.com Subject: Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar To: ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Message-ID: 4b5fabc1.7030...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed We don't want text-based bootloaders... that's why Cannonical is orking really hard with plymouth, xsplash and even usplash. Having that set of indicators will help for sure. I have seen my laptop stops after a kernel upgrade, so this way i could know what's the problem. This will be even better than a progress bar. Just a nice background in Xsplash with Ubuntu AND the version and then the icons on bottom, when they are all light up, my system is ready. Simple and beautiful. Could not be more perfect. You mean that you don't want text based boot loaders? It's just that your post seemed so certain. You may not be aware, but there are a select few of us out there that actually like text based boot loaders or at least an easy way to view the text upon boot. Example -- I run Fedora 11 and as much as I like Plymouth, I quite regularly press the ESC key to view the text loading for x reason. Regards Chris Jones -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On 25/01/2010 18:02, Vishnoo wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D This boot animation/graphical splash will most probably be decided by the Canonical design team. [as was done for Karmic] They decided to drop the progress bar since it was not accurate at showing the progress [starts , zooms , stops , zooms again] and not really necessary. Thx Vish, I couldn't have put it any better :-) best, Mat -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
We don't want text-based bootloaders... that's why Cannonical is orking really hard with plymouth, xsplash and even usplash. Having that set of indicators will help for sure. I have seen my laptop stops after a kernel upgrade, so this way i could know what's the problem. This will be even better than a progress bar. Just a nice background in Xsplash with Ubuntu AND the version and then the icons on bottom, when they are all light up, my system is ready. Simple and beautiful. Could not be more perfect. El 25/01/10 15:53, Charlie Kravetz escribió: On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:46:26 +0200 Amahdymrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: At least I said based on my observation with computer beginners (they don't [want to]* understand anything, they just wait the login-screen then the Firefox icon, their so WAW thing is the theme and desktop background; that's actually what they wait for starting from pressing the power button), and I said I believe so I'm not obligated to proof, what about your statement? -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 19:13, Mohammed Bassitwebceo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D I'm currently reading on how to get into the MOTU team, but as far as I get familiar with the dev-life cycle I think I'll get pretty much time. (I cant put up to 2 hours per day only). BTW: I believe 99% of users doesn't really care about the splached boot, they *have* to see text at some point after pressing the power button (related to BIOS, detecting IDE, RAM ... etc then GRUP loading ...) so if this text continue to tell (Loading kernel, X-Server, .. etc) it doesn't matter a lot as far as they reach at the end a graphical login-screen which starting from here become for most users a critical matter. I'm very tempted to say that 99% of users think you are wrong ! I think the issue here is how old the machine is. On an older machine, a blank screen is difficult to deal with. When there is nothing there, for 5-?? seconds, how does anyone know if the system is stalled or working? Many of us use old hardware. That hardware is not really going to reach the 10 second boot anyway. It would be nice to have a way of knowing without waiting 5 minutes to find out the boot stalled. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 10:57 AM, John Dong jd...@ubuntu.com wrote: The Upstart event-driven bootup doesn't really have the notion of progress, unlike the old SysV Init script bootup. It's hard to provide a linear measure of progress... This is why I disable 'quiet' ... my boot screen is like Loading kernel modules OK Mounting drives... OK Starting networking... OK It's familiar, and when something stalls it's suddenly not familiar. I don't have to care WHAT it's doing, just as long as it's doing something, and telling me what it's doing. Apple used to do this in System 7 and System 8 at least by showing icons during boot, signifying what part of the boot process it was currently in. Of course the new boot setup seems to cover that up while in X11 boot mode... sigh, small steps forward, giant leaps backward. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Jan 25, 2010, at 11:19 AM, John Moser wrote: On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 10:57 AM, John Dong jd...@ubuntu.com wrote: The Upstart event-driven bootup doesn't really have the notion of progress, unlike the old SysV Init script bootup. It's hard to provide a linear measure of progress... This is why I disable 'quiet' ... my boot screen is like Loading kernel modules OK Mounting drives... OK Starting networking... OK It's familiar, and when something stalls it's suddenly not familiar. I don't have to care WHAT it's doing, just as long as it's doing something, and telling me what it's doing. Apple used to do this in System 7 and System 8 at least by showing icons during boot, signifying what part of the boot process it was currently in. There is no part of bootup progress anymore. Everything happens together in parallel as long as its dependencies are met, and can be arbitrary order during bootup. IO traffic in an unrelated bootup job can cause a seemingly small other job to stall. It's not at all surprising that non-linear booted OS'es like OS X 10.4+, Ubuntu with Upstart, Windows 2000+, etc do not attempt to show a linear progress bar. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:41 AM, John Dong jd...@ubuntu.com wrote: It's familiar, and when something stalls it's suddenly not familiar. I don't have to care WHAT it's doing, just as long as it's doing something, and telling me what it's doing. Apple used to do this in System 7 and System 8 at least by showing icons during boot, signifying what part of the boot process it was currently in. There is no part of bootup progress anymore. Everything happens together in parallel as long as its dependencies are met, and can be arbitrary order during bootup. IO traffic in an unrelated bootup job can cause a seemingly small other job to stall. It's not at all surprising that non-linear booted OS'es like OS X 10.4+, Ubuntu with Upstart, Windows 2000+, etc do not attempt to show a linear progress bar. Why not show a panel of greyed-out icons at the bottom of the screen, one for each major component, and light up each icon as the corresponding component is initialized? This would reflect the correct abstraction (and if the icons had captions, users would have some idea of what was wrong if the boot process stalled). -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Jan 25, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Joe Zimmerman wrote: On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:41 AM, John Dong jd...@ubuntu.com wrote: It's familiar, and when something stalls it's suddenly not familiar. I don't have to care WHAT it's doing, just as long as it's doing something, and telling me what it's doing. Apple used to do this in System 7 and System 8 at least by showing icons during boot, signifying what part of the boot process it was currently in. There is no part of bootup progress anymore. Everything happens together in parallel as long as its dependencies are met, and can be arbitrary order during bootup. IO traffic in an unrelated bootup job can cause a seemingly small other job to stall. It's not at all surprising that non-linear booted OS'es like OS X 10.4+, Ubuntu with Upstart, Windows 2000+, etc do not attempt to show a linear progress bar. Why not show a panel of greyed-out icons at the bottom of the screen, one for each major component, and light up each icon as the corresponding component is initialized? This would reflect the correct abstraction (and if the icons had captions, users would have some idea of what was wrong if the boot process stalled). I agree with you, a lightup panel of Upstart jobs with status indications is a really good bootup visual. I'd like to see this feature implemented. Any volunteers? :) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D I'm currently reading on how to get into the MOTU team, but as far as I get familiar with the dev-life cycle I think I'll get pretty much time. (I cant put up to 2 hours per day only). BTW: I believe 99% of users doesn't really care about the splached boot, they *have* to see text at some point after pressing the power button (related to BIOS, detecting IDE, RAM ... etc then GRUP loading ...) so if this text continue to tell (Loading kernel, X-Server, .. etc) it doesn't matter a lot as far as they reach at the end a graphical login-screen which starting from here become for most users a critical matter. -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 18:52, John Dong jd...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Jan 25, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Joe Zimmerman wrote: On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:41 AM, John Dong jd...@ubuntu.com wrote: It's familiar, and when something stalls it's suddenly not familiar. I don't have to care WHAT it's doing, just as long as it's doing something, and telling me what it's doing. Apple used to do this in System 7 and System 8 at least by showing icons during boot, signifying what part of the boot process it was currently in. There is no part of bootup progress anymore. Everything happens together in parallel as long as its dependencies are met, and can be arbitrary order during bootup. IO traffic in an unrelated bootup job can cause a seemingly small other job to stall. It's not at all surprising that non-linear booted OS'es like OS X 10.4+, Ubuntu with Upstart, Windows 2000+, etc do not attempt to show a linear progress bar. Why not show a panel of greyed-out icons at the bottom of the screen, one for each major component, and light up each icon as the corresponding component is initialized? This would reflect the correct abstraction (and if the icons had captions, users would have some idea of what was wrong if the boot process stalled). I agree with you, a lightup panel of Upstart jobs with status indications is a really good bootup visual. I'd like to see this feature implemented. Any volunteers? :) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D I'm currently reading on how to get into the MOTU team, but as far as I get familiar with the dev-life cycle I think I'll get pretty much time. (I cant put up to 2 hours per day only). BTW: I believe 99% of users doesn't really care about the splached boot, they *have* to see text at some point after pressing the power button (related to BIOS, detecting IDE, RAM ... etc then GRUP loading ...) so if this text continue to tell (Loading kernel, X-Server, .. etc) it doesn't matter a lot as far as they reach at the end a graphical login-screen which starting from here become for most users a critical matter. I'm very tempted to say that 99% of users think you are wrong ! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Joe Zimmerman joe.zimmerman...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:41 AM, John Dong jd...@ubuntu.com wrote: It's familiar, and when something stalls it's suddenly not familiar. I don't have to care WHAT it's doing, just as long as it's doing something, and telling me what it's doing. Apple used to do this in System 7 and System 8 at least by showing icons during boot, signifying what part of the boot process it was currently in. There is no part of bootup progress anymore. Everything happens together in parallel as long as its dependencies are met, and can be arbitrary order during bootup. IO traffic in an unrelated bootup job can cause a seemingly small other job to stall. That's a scheduling bug. Also it's possible to animate them such that they graph their own dependencies but that would be rather excessive and non-obvious to random people. It's not at all surprising that non-linear booted OS'es like OS X 10.4+, Ubuntu with Upstart, Windows 2000+, etc do not attempt to show a linear progress bar. Why not show a panel of greyed-out icons at the bottom of the screen, one for each major component, and light up each icon as the corresponding component is initialized? This would reflect the correct abstraction (and if the icons had captions, users would have some idea of what was wrong if the boot process stalled). This is correct; however, it'd be easier and more flexible to just appearify the icons as new tasks begin. Start blank, and fill the screen in as you go. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
2010/1/25 Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... We moved away from [OK] type scrolling past a few releases ago. I'd suspect (no proof, no percentages) that most people flat out don't care what is [OK] and what isn't. They just want to get to the desktop as quick as possible. In the event something goes wrong I'd guess most users wouldn't have a clue what to do if one of the lines did say [FAIL] anyway. BTW: I believe 99% of users doesn't really care about the splached boot, they *have* to see text at some point after pressing the power button (related to BIOS, detecting IDE, RAM ... etc then GRUP loading ...) so if this text continue to tell (Loading kernel, X-Server, .. etc) it doesn't matter a lot as far as they reach at the end a graphical login-screen which starting from here become for most users a critical matter. Neither of my laptops display _any_ text when they boot. Both show a graphical manufacturer logo and then Grub/Linux starts booting. Both from big name brand manufacturers, popular machines. Cheers, Al. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: BTW: I believe 99% of users doesn't really care about the splached boot, they *have* to see text at some point after pressing the power button I'm a highly-technical user and I like having no text during boot. My laptop goes from the HP logo to black screen and then the Ubuntu logo. It looks nice, clean, and professional. If something goes wrong, I can always hit esc to make the GRUB menu come up at boot and edit the entry to remove quiet splash to see the messages for debugging. It's like having a nice car. I keep the hood closed and it looks good. I only open things up to peek inside if there's something that needs to be fixed. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D This boot animation/graphical splash will most probably be decided by the Canonical design team. [as was done for Karmic] They decided to drop the progress bar since it was not accurate at showing the progress [starts , zooms , stops , zooms again] and not really necessary. -- Cheers, Vish -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
At least I said based on my observation with computer beginners (they don't [want to]* understand anything, they just wait the login-screen then the Firefox icon, their so WAW thing is the theme and desktop background; that's actually what they wait for starting from pressing the power button), and I said I believe so I'm not obligated to proof, what about your statement? -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 19:13, Mohammed Bassit webceo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D I'm currently reading on how to get into the MOTU team, but as far as I get familiar with the dev-life cycle I think I'll get pretty much time. (I cant put up to 2 hours per day only). BTW: I believe 99% of users doesn't really care about the splached boot, they *have* to see text at some point after pressing the power button (related to BIOS, detecting IDE, RAM ... etc then GRUP loading ...) so if this text continue to tell (Loading kernel, X-Server, .. etc) it doesn't matter a lot as far as they reach at the end a graphical login-screen which starting from here become for most users a critical matter. I'm very tempted to say that 99% of users think you are wrong ! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:46:26 +0200 Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: At least I said based on my observation with computer beginners (they don't [want to]* understand anything, they just wait the login-screen then the Firefox icon, their so WAW thing is the theme and desktop background; that's actually what they wait for starting from pressing the power button), and I said I believe so I'm not obligated to proof, what about your statement? -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 19:13, Mohammed Bassit webceo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D I'm currently reading on how to get into the MOTU team, but as far as I get familiar with the dev-life cycle I think I'll get pretty much time. (I cant put up to 2 hours per day only). BTW: I believe 99% of users doesn't really care about the splached boot, they *have* to see text at some point after pressing the power button (related to BIOS, detecting IDE, RAM ... etc then GRUP loading ...) so if this text continue to tell (Loading kernel, X-Server, .. etc) it doesn't matter a lot as far as they reach at the end a graphical login-screen which starting from here become for most users a critical matter. I'm very tempted to say that 99% of users think you are wrong ! I think the issue here is how old the machine is. On an older machine, a blank screen is difficult to deal with. When there is nothing there, for 5-?? seconds, how does anyone know if the system is stalled or working? Many of us use old hardware. That hardware is not really going to reach the 10 second boot anyway. It would be nice to have a way of knowing without waiting 5 minutes to find out the boot stalled. -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
If something goes wrong, I can always hit esc to make the GRUB menu come up at boot and edit the entry to remove quiet splash to see the messages for debugging. How can you determine If something goes wrong? in many situations I can't know if something getting wrong or not maybe everything is ok and the system loads but there is somehting hidden there that I never noticed... For example couple of years ago, my previous laptop had fedora 10, and I noticed that fedora attempt to load some bluetooth device while my laptop doesn't have any bluetooth in it, I'd never notice that without the text-loader and although everything works but there is a little thing out there to remove to at least make things better than it could be ... My brother (a newbie) once asked me why there is a [FAILED] in the fedora 11 loading, when I fixed it he told me that since months he thought that his modem is broken and doesn't work and he would never change his mind until he -as a matter of curiosity- asked me about this [FAILED]! the point is: he is not technical but he noticed something and just wanted to report it... -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 20:02, Vishnoo drkv...@yahoo.com wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D This boot animation/graphical splash will most probably be decided by the Canonical design team. [as was done for Karmic] They decided to drop the progress bar since it was not accurate at showing the progress [starts , zooms , stops , zooms again] and not really necessary. -- Cheers, Vish -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 11:53 -0700, Charlie Kravetz wrote: I think the issue here is how old the machine is. On an older machine, a blank screen is difficult to deal with. When there is nothing there, for 5-?? seconds, how does anyone know if the system is stalled or working? Many of us use old hardware. That hardware is not really going to reach the 10 second boot anyway. It would be nice to have a way of knowing without waiting 5 minutes to find out the boot stalled. -- Charlie Kravetz On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 21:01 +0200, Amahdy wrote: If something goes wrong, I can always hit esc to make the GRUB menu come up at boot and edit the entry to remove quiet splash to see the messages for debugging. How can you determine If something goes wrong? in many situations I can't know if something getting wrong or not maybe everything is ok and the system loads but there is somehting hidden there that I never noticed... For example couple of years ago, my previous laptop had fedora 10, and I noticed that fedora attempt to load some bluetooth device while my laptop doesn't have any bluetooth in it, I'd never notice that without the text-loader and although everything works but there is a little thing out there to remove to at least make things better than it could be ... My brother (a newbie) once asked me why there is a [FAILED] in the fedora 11 loading, when I fixed it he told me that since months he thought that his modem is broken and doesn't work and he would never change his mind until he -as a matter of curiosity- asked me about this [FAILED]! the point is: he is not technical but he noticed something and just wanted to report it... -- Amahdy AbdElAziz The *option* to display the messages was something that the design team was interested in fixing for the the Lucid cycle. But AFAIK, i dont think there has been any progress regarding that.[since there were bigger issues to fix] You might try contacting the design team... -- Cheers, Vish -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: How can you determine If something goes wrong? The first indication is when I see that the system stops working as expected. When that occurs then I will start to investigate. For example couple of years ago, my previous laptop had fedora 10, and I noticed that fedora attempt to load some bluetooth device while my laptop doesn't have any bluetooth in it, I'd never notice that without the text-loader and although everything works but there is a little thing out there to remove to at least make things better than it could be ... If everything works then nothing has gone wrong. There's a world of difference between repairing a problem and optimizing your system. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
the system stops working as expected is not that easy, at least for me maybe, it's very hard to always notice that the system is working as expected or not. and sometimes the system doesn't *start* as expected to be from the beginning so it's not *stopping* here to notice it. My previous story with fedora 10 is indeed a problem not optimization, it's a problem to try to load a non-existing device, I was not talking about disabling the auto-load of bluetooth and load it when needed but I was talking about a wrong assumption that my laptop had a bluetooth while it hadn't. (Imagine the contrary when it assumes that I haven't a bluetooth while I do have one). On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Amahdy mrjava.javaman at gmail.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss wrote: * How can you determine If something goes wrong? * The first indication is when I see that the system stops working as expected. When that occurs then I will start to investigate. * For example couple of years ago, my previous laptop had fedora 10, and I ** noticed that fedora attempt to load some bluetooth device while my laptop ** doesn't have any bluetooth in it, I'd never notice that without the ** text-loader and although everything works but there is a little thing out ** there to remove to at least make things better than it could be ... * If everything works then nothing has gone wrong. There's a world of difference between repairing a problem and optimizing your system. -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 21:01, Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: If something goes wrong, I can always hit esc to make the GRUB menu come up at boot and edit the entry to remove quiet splash to see the messages for debugging. How can you determine If something goes wrong? in many situations I can't know if something getting wrong or not maybe everything is ok and the system loads but there is somehting hidden there that I never noticed... For example couple of years ago, my previous laptop had fedora 10, and I noticed that fedora attempt to load some bluetooth device while my laptop doesn't have any bluetooth in it, I'd never notice that without the text-loader and although everything works but there is a little thing out there to remove to at least make things better than it could be ... My brother (a newbie) once asked me why there is a [FAILED] in the fedora 11 loading, when I fixed it he told me that since months he thought that his modem is broken and doesn't work and he would never change his mind until he -as a matter of curiosity- asked me about this [FAILED]! the point is: he is not technical but he noticed something and just wanted to report it... -- Amahdy AbdElAziz IT Development Manager 3D Diagnostix Inc. www.3ddx.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/amahdyabdelaziz On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 20:02, Vishnoo drkv...@yahoo.com wrote: On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 19:03 +0200, Amahdy wrote: Here is the middle of thing, have the splash splitted out into two parts, the upper is the graphical splash and the lower part is the traditional text-boot with [green(OK)] or [red(fail)] Even maybe with a scrollbar to scroll through the log if needed... I'd love to contribute this idea, but as you may have noticed I'm just brand new here and don't even know the programming language used :D This boot animation/graphical splash will most probably be decided by the Canonical design team. [as was done for Karmic] They decided to drop the progress bar since it was not accurate at showing the progress [starts , zooms , stops , zooms again] and not really necessary. -- Cheers, Vish -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:12:51 -0800 MPR mplistarch...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Amahdy mrjava.java...@gmail.com wrote: How can you determine If something goes wrong? The first indication is when I see that the system stops working as expected. When that occurs then I will start to investigate. For example couple of years ago, my previous laptop had fedora 10, and I noticed that fedora attempt to load some bluetooth device while my laptop doesn't have any bluetooth in it, I'd never notice that without the text-loader and although everything works but there is a little thing out there to remove to at least make things better than it could be ... If everything works then nothing has gone wrong. There's a world of difference between repairing a problem and optimizing your system. Indeed, the first indication should be when I see that the system stops. Unfortunately, I can not see that. There is no indicator to tell me the system stopped. My system takes a minute or two to start up. Without the indicator, I can NOT tell if it stopped working. -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: The 9.10 boot loader progress bar
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Charlie Kravetz c...@teamcharliesangels.com wrote: Indeed, the first indication should be when I see that the system stops. Unfortunately, I can not see that. There is no indicator to tell me the system stopped. My system takes a minute or two to start up. Without the indicator, I can NOT tell if it stopped working. I doubt that is true. If your system did not finish starting a few minutes after it was supposed to, would that not indicate to you that something is amiss? If you want to see boot messages, it's easy enough to change. Run: sudo nano /etc/default/grub Comment out the line beginning with GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT. The quiet and splash parameters are what tell the kernel not to show boot messages. Now run: sudo update-grub Reboot. Now you will see boot messages when the system starts. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
