Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
On 3/30/2015 5:08 PM, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: Am 30.03.2015 um 14:08 schrieb Tanstaafl: It is a regression because it used to be a configurable option. Oh, ok, so what is the current open bug#? I don't care. I deleted my bugzilla account after receiving the following mail for each of my reports: You deleted your bugzilla account because bugs are closed because the bug reporters fail to follow-up and provide needed info to help find and fix the bug? Makes no sense... Dear bug submitter! Due to the fact, that there are a lot of NEEDINFO bugs with no answer within the last six months, we close all of these bugs. To keep this message short, more infos are available @ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/NeedinfoClosure#Statement Thanks for understanding and hopefully updating your bug, so that everything is prepared for developers to fix your problem. Yours! Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
Hi :) It is frustrating on both sides i reckon. I think something got lost in translation somewhere. I suspect that if anyone were to provide the information the Devs or QA Team requested in any of those bug-reports then that report would be re-opened. However i get the feeling that there might be a feeling that the information was already supplied or is difficult to obtain or might seem pointless. However just as many questions in here may seem ambiguous to us it might be that the Devs or QA Team do need to distinguish between things that we would consider as being identical. All very difficult to translate between pure geek and just very techie. Regards from Tom :) On 31 March 2015 at 11:42, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/30/2015 5:08 PM, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: Am 30.03.2015 um 14:08 schrieb Tanstaafl: It is a regression because it used to be a configurable option. Oh, ok, so what is the current open bug#? I don't care. I deleted my bugzilla account after receiving the following mail for each of my reports: You deleted your bugzilla account because bugs are closed because the bug reporters fail to follow-up and provide needed info to help find and fix the bug? Makes no sense... Dear bug submitter! Due to the fact, that there are a lot of NEEDINFO bugs with no answer within the last six months, we close all of these bugs. To keep this message short, more infos are available @ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/NeedinfoClosure#Statement Thanks for understanding and hopefully updating your bug, so that everything is prepared for developers to fix your problem. Yours! Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
On 3/29/2015 3:08 PM, Andreas Säger ville...@t-online.de wrote: Am 29.03.2015 um 15:17 schrieb Tanstaafl: I agree that this should probably be a configurable option you can set in Tools Options Libreoffice Calc Defaults (or something like that) - ie, change the default behavior to whatever you want - but the fact is, it isn't, so you simply need to be aware of this. It is a regression because it used to be a configurable option. Oh, ok, so what is the current open bug#? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
On 3/28/15 6:20 AM, Tom Davies wrote: That is exactly the most perfect use-case that would be better in a database than in a spreadsheet. Not really since, while for me the prospect of using a DB back end isn't daunting, for most it is. Secondly, this is the perfect use-case where a DB back end can't be used since the process of collecting the data for populating the SS was organic and constantly changing until it arrived at the current state it is in where yes, putting a backend on it would work very well BUT, I can't then send a copy to my co-workers and ask them to use it without their heads exploding. One must consider the use-case when deciding how to use the tools available. -- MCT Michael C Tiernan. http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan Non Impediti Ratione Cogatationis Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
I meant to say, I'd be happy with the menu buttons performing the sort using the last chosen options. -- MCT Michael C Tiernan. http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan Non Impediti Ratione Cogatationis Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
On 3/27/15 8:01 AM, Nino Novak wrote: 1) This seems to be an old known problem (see e.g. [1]) It's older than that by a bit, I reported it back in 2012 I think. (I'd have to hunt it down.) However, known isn't as accurate as we'd like if people seem to find this as new on a semi-regular basis. 2) I just tested 3.4.1 (LibO+AOO) - its already present there, so IMHO it's inherited from OOo Also, from my perspective, I'm not accusing/blaming those working on this for it having happened, it did, time to move on, now I'd like to get it fixed. 3) an easy Workaround exists (go over Data Sort, choose proper column label Options) A point I'd tried to make back then but got no where with was that it's not an easy work-around when you have to do it multiple times over and over in the process of using a collection of data means you waste a *lot* of time during this work around which, when you have to do it multiple times, stops being easy and becomes long and tedious. I have a spreadsheet of ~450 entries, one for each machine in a data center. Sometimes I have to sort it on the names, sometimes the serial number, sometimes the rack location, etc. In my cases, when I was building this list, to, EACH TIME, bring up the menu option, go and click off *AGAIN* the button to choose the second page of the dialog, click the label button, then click Ok *AGAIN* wasted a lot of time and introduced new places for me to trigger an error in the process when really, assuming the minimum choices was the correct approach. Maybe that's what we need, a button to set the sort options, just once to smart or standard meaning don't *ass*u*me* anything when trying to decide what to do with the data. So IMO the next questions are, - how important is this bug? - is there general agreement about a default behavior / column label recognition algorithm? Then the bug could be pushed to a higher prio / dev visibility. The philosophical arguments I'd like to make is that using the assumption of lowest common expectation (for lack of a better term) is that you assume the least number of optional choices that you can unless explicitly told otherwise. As someone previously stated, if I select/highlight a number of words in a word processor to effect change on them such as bold/italic/underline, I expect the operation to be done in the simplest of terms, I don't want you to avoid doing capital letters because that's an option somewhere I didn't expect. -- MCT Michael C Tiernan. http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan Non Impediti Ratione Cogatationis Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
Hi :) That is exactly the most perfect use-case that would be better in a database than in a spreadsheet. What makes it even more perfect is that Base can use the existing spreadsheet as an external back-end. This means that while you struggle to get Base set-up you can keep using the existing spreadsheet in the way you are familiar with. Also at any random moment in the future, even after Base is set-up, you can just use the spreadsheet method that you are using all the time at the moment. Regards from Tom :) On 28 March 2015 at 09:50, Michael Tiernan michael.tier...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/27/15 8:01 AM, Nino Novak wrote: 1) This seems to be an old known problem (see e.g. [1]) It's older than that by a bit, I reported it back in 2012 I think. (I'd have to hunt it down.) However, known isn't as accurate as we'd like if people seem to find this as new on a semi-regular basis. 2) I just tested 3.4.1 (LibO+AOO) - its already present there, so IMHO it's inherited from OOo Also, from my perspective, I'm not accusing/blaming those working on this for it having happened, it did, time to move on, now I'd like to get it fixed. 3) an easy Workaround exists (go over Data Sort, choose proper column label Options) A point I'd tried to make back then but got no where with was that it's not an easy work-around when you have to do it multiple times over and over in the process of using a collection of data means you waste a *lot* of time during this work around which, when you have to do it multiple times, stops being easy and becomes long and tedious. I have a spreadsheet of ~450 entries, one for each machine in a data center. Sometimes I have to sort it on the names, sometimes the serial number, sometimes the rack location, etc. In my cases, when I was building this list, to, EACH TIME, bring up the menu option, go and click off *AGAIN* the button to choose the second page of the dialog, click the label button, then click Ok *AGAIN* wasted a lot of time and introduced new places for me to trigger an error in the process when really, assuming the minimum choices was the correct approach. Maybe that's what we need, a button to set the sort options, just once to smart or standard meaning don't *ass*u*me* anything when trying to decide what to do with the data. So IMO the next questions are, - how important is this bug? - is there general agreement about a default behavior / column label recognition algorithm? Then the bug could be pushed to a higher prio / dev visibility. The philosophical arguments I'd like to make is that using the assumption of lowest common expectation (for lack of a better term) is that you assume the least number of optional choices that you can unless explicitly told otherwise. As someone previously stated, if I select/highlight a number of words in a word processor to effect change on them such as bold/italic/underline, I expect the operation to be done in the simplest of terms, I don't want you to avoid doing capital letters because that's an option somewhere I didn't expect. -- MCT Michael C Tiernan. http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan Non Impediti Ratione Cogatationis Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
Hi :) Personally i think that it is quite annoying. If i select something to sort i tend to leave out any stuff i don't want sorted. Similarly if i want to make some things bold. I select the things i want to make bold and leave out the rest! Regards from Tom :) On 27 March 2015 at 12:01, Nino Novak nn.l...@kflog.org wrote: Pertti, all, 1) This seems to be an old known problem (see e.g. [1]) 2) I just tested 3.4.1 (LibO+AOO) - its already present there, so IMHO it's inherited from OOo 3) an easy Workaround exists (go over Data Sort, choose proper column label Options) So IMO the next questions are, - how important is this bug? - is there general agreement about a default behavior / column label recognition algorithm? Then the bug could be pushed to a higher prio / dev visibility. Nino [1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77681 Am 27.03.2015 um 11:38 schrieb Pertti Rönnberg: Tim Lloyd's comment is not acceptable! This is not a question of a (unpaid) programmer's likings or priorities -- this is a serious question of Libre Office's liability, because both of the the sort buttons in the toolbar (asc desc) give wrong results as well as there is no clear explanation why and how the sort command in Data= sort must be customized if yopu want a correct result. A spreadsheet program that cannot be fully trusted is totally worthless!! These bugs are a result of very bad planning and an obviously total lack of control testing of the programming before it was accepted as a feature in Calc and the complete LibreOffice suite. Neither is this really not a game -- anyone who goes for to programming something for LibreOffice must feel the responsibility for the result -- as well as the controlling team (if any?). The sort feature is a very important feature why these faults have to be corrected immediately the function of both the sort buttons set to normal sort of a selected range all selections set to blanc in Data=sort=options Pertti Rönnberg On 26.3.2015 2:12, Tim Lloyd wrote: Hi, while LO does allow a certain amount of customisation, at this point in the game this particular menu option can not be changed. This then becomes a feature request, either * change the default * allow the sort options to be customised Once a feature request is submitted it is really up to a (unpaid) programmer to step forward and take on the action. I can't see this being high on the programmer's list of priorities but it may be deemed an easy hack which an aspiring young person could field. Cheers On 26/03/15 10:58, Richard VINCK wrote: Tim Lloyd Thank you for pointing this. Indeed, unticking it works then correctly. But it should be the default, and should remain unticked. (and should be more visible, as it is hidden in the Option tab) Can we make it as default? On 2015-03-26 00:42, Tim Lloyd wrote: A quick look at the doco reveals... Range contains column/row labels – omits the first row or the first column in the selection from the sort Untick this box and you are sorted. Cheers On 26/03/15 10:06, Wade Smart wrote: Hmm I just tried to sort going through the sort menu and I still cant get it to sort properly. It does numbers just fine though. -- Registered Linux User: #480675 Registered Linux Machine: #408606 Linux since June 2005 On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Wade Smart wadesm...@gmail.com wrote: **cough cough** .. feature understood. -- Registered Linux User: #480675 Registered Linux Machine: #408606 Linux since June 2005 On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:02 PM, Michael Tiernan michael.tier...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/25/15 6:53 PM, Wade Smart wrote: I have 4.2.7.2 on Ubuntu 14.04 and you are correct, sort is not working. When I reported it, I provided a great deal of information about it and was told Not a bug and works for me by those who have the power to close bugs. My argument was/is that if you use the sort arrows (as you have done here) then you're asking/telling LO to sort the selected rows with no options. Instead it was deemed correct that instead, LO assumes the first cell found is used as a label regardless of any other settings. This feature (*cough*) cost me a number of hours of work to get around and avoid. The argument is that since you can use the Sort menu option and change this behavior *for each sort occurrence* then there's a work around for the feature and we should be happy with that. -- MCT Michael C Tiernan. http://www.linkedin.com/in/mtiernan Non Impediti Ratione Cogatationis Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems?
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ?
opinion FWIW: I tend to use sort on an entire sheet (using datasort), and I nearly always have a column headings row at the top; I get narked when, coming to repeat a sort on a sheet, I find that LO has forgotten that I have previously checked the has headings box and ends up sorting the headings into the data - so I definitely prefer the has headings to be default. (It mightn't be *quite* so bad if one didn't have to go to an options tab in order to see what the current setting is - it's just too easy for feeble-minded people like me to forget to do that!). So it would definitely be good to be able to rely upon the setting being unchanged since the last sort. It would also be good to have the possibility to set the required behaviour on a per-sheet basis. OTOH, sorting a selected range, as has been the case in this thread, is a different kettle of fish - in that case, the default should definitely be to assume no column headings and to sort everything that's given. A thought for future development: maybe best of all would be good to be able to mark a row (or column) as being a headings row (or column) and hence be excluded from any sort automatically. This would have the advantage that more than one row (or column) could be used for this purpose. It would also have the advantage of making that contains headings checkbox redundant, whilst avoiding problems of the kind that have been experienced here. Just some thoughts... /Gary From: Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com To: Nino Novak nn.l...@kflog.org Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 27 March 2015, 12:18 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Sort Bug ? Hi :) Personally i think that it is quite annoying. If i select something to sort i tend to leave out any stuff i don't want sorted. Similarly if i want to make some things bold. I select the things i want to make bold and leave out the rest! Regards from Tom :) On 27 March 2015 at 12:01, Nino Novak nn.l...@kflog.org wrote: Pertti, all, 1) This seems to be an old known problem (see e.g. [1]) 2) I just tested 3.4.1 (LibO+AOO) - its already present there, so IMHO it's inherited from OOo 3) an easy Workaround exists (go over Data Sort, choose proper column label Options) So IMO the next questions are, - how important is this bug? - is there general agreement about a default behavior / column label recognition algorithm? Then the bug could be pushed to a higher prio / dev visibility. Nino [1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77681 Am 27.03.2015 um 11:38 schrieb Pertti Rönnberg: Tim Lloyd's comment is not acceptable! This is not a question of a (unpaid) programmer's likings or priorities -- this is a serious question of Libre Office's liability, because both of the the sort buttons in the toolbar (asc desc) give wrong results as well as there is no clear explanation why and how the sort command in Data= sort must be customized if yopu want a correct result. A spreadsheet program that cannot be fully trusted is totally worthless!! These bugs are a result of very bad planning and an obviously total lack of control testing of the programming before it was accepted as a feature in Calc and the complete LibreOffice suite. Neither is this really not a game -- anyone who goes for to programming something for LibreOffice must feel the responsibility for the result -- as well as the controlling team (if any?). The sort feature is a very important feature why these faults have to be corrected immediately the function of both the sort buttons set to normal sort of a selected range all selections set to blanc in Data=sort=options Pertti Rönnberg On 26.3.2015 2:12, Tim Lloyd wrote: Hi, while LO does allow a certain amount of customisation, at this point in the game this particular menu option can not be changed. This then becomes a feature request, either * change the default * allow the sort options to be customised Once a feature request is submitted it is really up to a (unpaid) programmer to step forward and take on the action. I can't see this being high on the programmer's list of priorities but it may be deemed an easy hack which an aspiring young person could field. Cheers On 26/03/15 10:58, Richard VINCK wrote: Tim Lloyd Thank you for pointing this. Indeed, unticking it works then correctly. But it should be the default, and should remain unticked. (and should be more visible, as it is hidden in the Option tab) Can we make it as default? On 2015-03-26 00:42, Tim Lloyd wrote: A quick look at the doco reveals... Range contains column/row labels – omits the first row or the first column in the selection from the sort Untick this box and you are sorted. Cheers On 26/03/15 10:06, Wade Smart wrote: Hmm I just tried to sort going through
