RE: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Russ George]

Gravity waves are indeed the means for SETI communication as they travel at e8 
times the speed of light as Tom van Flandern showed the speed was at least 
2xe10 c or more! While the usual suspects heaped dogmatic howls on Tom, his 
friend and mine J P Vigier was a staunch supporter of his conclusion as am I. 
Alas both Tom and Jean Pierre are passed but their ideas and wisdom have not.

 

From: Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 8:55 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

 

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Bob Higgins  > wrote:

 

There is a more far fetched possibility - that of communications via 
gravitational waves.  There have been a number of papers talking about the 
conversion of EM waves into gravitational waves in certain types of 
superconductors.  If that ever proves to be possible, it would open a whole new 
spectrum - one that could harbor SETI communications.

 

Because gravity appears to have infinite range, assuming there are gravitons, 
they are expected to be massless.  This means they will travel at the speed of 
light.  From this PhysicsForums post [1], I infer that for masses under human 
control which would serve as the source of the gravitons, they will have very 
large wavelengths.  Is there a way to send lots of information over a signal 
with a very low frequency?

 

Gravitons aside, if the alien signal is spread across a spectrum, as you 
mention, I suppose it might be very difficult to detect.  If the transmitted 
signal further involves intentionally taking the background noise and making 
small adjustments to it, you would probably have to be looking for this kind of 
pattern specifically to determine that there was a signal at all.

 

Eric

 

 

[1] 
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/graviton-energy-and-frequency-wavelength.242145/#post-1780881

 

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Eric Walker]

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

There is a more far fetched possibility - that of communications via
> gravitational waves.  There have been a number of papers talking about the
> conversion of EM waves into gravitational waves in certain types of
> superconductors.  If that ever proves to be possible, it would open a whole
> new spectrum - one that could harbor SETI communications.
>

Because gravity appears to have infinite range, assuming there are
gravitons, they are expected to be massless.  This means they will travel
at the speed of light.  From this PhysicsForums post [1], I infer that for
masses under human control which would serve as the source of the
gravitons, they will have very large wavelengths.  Is there a way to send
lots of information over a signal with a very low frequency?

Gravitons aside, if the alien signal is spread across a spectrum, as you
mention, I suppose it might be very difficult to detect.  If the
transmitted signal further involves intentionally taking the background
noise and making small adjustments to it, you would probably have to be
looking for this kind of pattern specifically to determine that there was a
signal at all.

Eric


[1]
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/graviton-energy-and-frequency-wavelength.242145/#post-1780881

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Jones Beene]

Our experience seems to marginalize the relevance of "noise" quip - at 
least in the case of SETI. It all goes back to the starting assumptions.


Of course SETI operates under the assumption that ET wants to contact 
us, as opposed to us wanting to eavesdrop on them. We can reasonably 
assume that some or most advanced civilizations would be in that 
category of directing a high power signal from time to time with the 
intention of eliciting a response.


SETI chose the most obvious radio frequency (hydrogen) to look for a 
directed signal and tuned in at 1420 MHz. In 1977 a 72 second nonrandom 
signal was heard - the only signal in all of these years that had a 
chance to be from another system - the so-called "wow" signal. Wiki has 
a nice entry. They are still trying for a sequel at OSU/SETI.


Of course, LENR when put into practice as a working technology would 
make it much easier to make contact via a directed high power signal. We 
could put a robotic beacon in orbit and let it transmit to thousands of 
selected candidates, sequentially for eons ... so we can probably assume 
that going to fiber optics or spread spectra etc is not really 
particularly relevant to explain the lack of contact... if ET wanted to 
make contact, they will initiate it.


Who knows - maybe the WOW beacon was on a 40 year cycle, scanning across 
the Universe and this year it will come back to focus on the 3rd rock?


... even if the builders of WOW and their enemies, somewhere out there 
in Sagittarius, have completely annihilated each other in the mean time 
with UDD bombs... since the beacon they put in orbit keeps a-tickin' 
thanks to LENR.




 Jed Rothwell wrote:
Bob Higgins > wrote:


Even more probable is the evolution to spread spectrum
techniques.  Look at what has happened to a lot of our emissions -
they have moved to spread spectrum.  This would no longer be
detectable as an emission type that is detectable by SETI technology.


That is a variation on what I had in mind with increased data 
compression. To paraphrase Clarke's third law:


Any sufficiently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise.

(I actually said that to Clarke. I don't recall his response.)

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Jed Rothwell]

Bob Higgins  wrote:

Even more probable is the evolution to spread spectrum techniques.  Look at
> what has happened to a lot of our emissions - they have moved to spread
> spectrum.  This would no longer be detectable as an emission type that is
> detectable by SETI technology.
>

That is a variation on what I had in mind with increased data compression.
To paraphrase Clarke's third law:

Any sufficiently advanced communication is indistinguishable from noise.

(I actually said that to Clarke. I don't recall his response.)

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Jed Rothwell]

 wrote:


> There is another possibility, i.e. that the reason for the short window is
> not
> self destruction, but rather that they discover FTL communication
> techniques,
> and stop broadcasting using EMF.
>

Here are my hypotheses:

1. Data broadcast by people in RF and light fiber is getting faster all the
time, and denser. By that I mean the bits are closer together and images
are compressed. Over time, the data looks more and more like noise. We have
only been doing this for ~100 years but the bit rate has increased by
orders of magnitude. Furthermore the power has gone down in comparison to
the bit rate. Thousands of years from now, the transmissions may be so
rapid and so compressed they will look like noise.

2. RF doesn't work for interstellar communication. I read somewhere that
radio signals degrade so badly, a few light years from earth they are
probably indistinguishable from noise. So much for the movie "Contact."

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Bob Higgins]

Even more probable is the evolution to spread spectrum techniques.  Look at
what has happened to a lot of our emissions - they have moved to spread
spectrum.  This would no longer be detectable as an emission type that is
detectable by SETI technology.  We may migrate largely to a communications
technology undetectable by SETI measurements less than 100 years after we
started using radio.  That is another window that has nothing to do with
extinction of our species.

There is a more far fetched possibility - that of communications via
gravitational waves.  There have been a number of papers talking about the
conversion of EM waves into gravitational waves in certain types of
superconductors.  If that ever proves to be possible, it would open a whole
new spectrum - one that could harbor SETI communications.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2017 at 6:38 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Thu, 5 Jan 2017 08:16:05 -0800:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >... estimate that there should be many advanced civilizations in the
> >Universe, a few of whom are close enough that we  should be able to
> >communicate with them or at least catch glimpses of their broadcast
> >signals. Except ... that is, for the last term in the Drake equation ( L
> >= The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into
> >space). This is the troubling part. Maybe advancing science invariable
> >hits a plateau where it always... or almost always ... self-destructs.
> >Maybe every civilization that discovers LENR succumbs to the dark side.
>
> There is another possibility, i.e. that the reason for the short window is
> not
> self destruction, but rather that they discover FTL communication
> techniques,
> and stop broadcasting using EMF.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Thu, 5 Jan 2017 08:16:05 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>... estimate that there should be many advanced civilizations in the 
>Universe, a few of whom are close enough that we  should be able to 
>communicate with them or at least catch glimpses of their broadcast 
>signals. Except ... that is, for the last term in the Drake equation ( L 
>= The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into 
>space). This is the troubling part. Maybe advancing science invariable 
>hits a plateau where it always... or almost always ... self-destructs. 
>Maybe every civilization that discovers LENR succumbs to the dark side.

There is another possibility, i.e. that the reason for the short window is not
self destruction, but rather that they discover FTL communication techniques,
and stop broadcasting using EMF.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Wed, 4 Jan 2017 13:14:21 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>Even if neutrons were required for the most energetic kind of 
>weaponization, dense hydrogen is similar enough to the neutron that it 
>could substitute -- and in the case of Holmlid - exceed by orders of 
>magnitude the gain from the nuclear fission chain reaction.
>
With dense H, you may need to take into account that tunneling takes time, and
usually quite a bit of time. By "taking time", I mean that frequently many
attempts are required before one is successful, so the time between successful
attempts can be long. This tends to work as a wet blanket for explosions.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:Brillouin Energy press release

[bobcook39923]

I wonder if Ni Nano particles are involved?  Is there a patent in the USA for 
the IPB HHT?  

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jed Rothwell
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 1:29 PM
To: Vortex
Subject: [Vo]:Brillouin Energy press release

See:

https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/4795-Press-Release-BERKELEY-CLEAN-TECHNOLOGY-COMPANY-ANNOUNCES-BREAKTHROUGH-FOR-LENR-/

The press release begins:
BERKELEY CLEAN TECHNOLOGY COMPANY ANNOUNCES BREAKTHROUGH FOR LENR POWER DEVICES

Controllable-on-Demand, Reproducible, Transportable, Scalable LENR Validated in 
Third-Party Tests of Brillouin Energy IPB HHT™ LENR Reactor

BERKELEY, CA, January 5, 2017 – Researchers at SRI International are reporting 
that they have successfully replicated “over unity” amounts of thermal energy 
(heat) for Brillouin Energy Corporation’s most advanced Isoperibolic (“IPB”) 
Hydrogen Hot Tube™ (HHT™) reactor test systems based on controlled low energy 
nuclear reactions (“LENR”). Researchers at SRI conducted a series of 
third-party tests of Brillouin Energy’s IPB HHT™ LENR reactor test systems from 
March to December 2016. Dr. Francis Tanzella, principal investigator and 
Manager of the Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Program, was assigned to SRI’s 
testing of Brillouin Energy’s LENR systems and conducted all of the third-party 
validation work.

In its Interim Progress Report, SRI summarizes its extensive testing of five 
identical Brillouin Energy metallic reactor cores . . .

(See the rest at the link.)

The report is here:

https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Attachment/1139-SRI-ProgressReport-pdf/

Isoperibolic Hydrogen Hot Tube Reactor Studies

SRI International Project P21429

- Jed

[Vo]:More mass in universe in black holes than stars!

[Russ George]

Curiosity got the best of me and looking at the ratio of stars to black
holes, stars are ~1000 times more common. But black holes contain vast
numbers of 'star equivalent mass', it looks like too close to call as to
whether there is more mass in stars or black holes. Are black holes made up
of 'dark matter'? Does the matter inside a black hole exist as atoms or is
it merely quark soup, the latter it seems. That led to an interesting new
paper that shows that there is a low temperature, aka constrained motion,
boundary between nucleons and quark soup.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170104145736.htm 

[Vo]:Brillouin Energy press release

[Jed Rothwell]

See:

https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/4795-Press-Release-BERKELEY-CLEAN-TECHNOLOGY-COMPANY-ANNOUNCES-BREAKTHROUGH-FOR-LENR-/

The press release begins:

BERKELEY CLEAN TECHNOLOGY COMPANY ANNOUNCES BREAKTHROUGH FOR LENR POWER
DEVICES

Controllable-on-Demand, Reproducible, Transportable, Scalable LENR
Validated in Third-Party Tests of Brillouin Energy IPB HHT™ LENR Reactor

BERKELEY, CA, January 5, 2017 – Researchers at SRI International are
reporting that they have successfully replicated “over unity” amounts of
thermal energy (heat) for Brillouin Energy Corporation’s most advanced
Isoperibolic (“IPB”) Hydrogen Hot Tube™ (HHT™) reactor test systems based
on controlled low energy nuclear reactions (“LENR”). Researchers at SRI
conducted a series of third-party tests of Brillouin Energy’s IPB HHT™ LENR
reactor test systems from March to December 2016. Dr. Francis Tanzella,
principal investigator and Manager of the Low Energy Nuclear Reactions
Program, was assigned to SRI’s testing of Brillouin Energy’s LENR systems
and conducted all of the third-party validation work.

In its Interim Progress Report, SRI summarizes its extensive testing of
five identical Brillouin Energy metallic reactor cores . . .


(See the rest at the link.)

The report is here:

https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Attachment/1139-SRI-ProgressReport-pdf/

Isoperibolic Hydrogen Hot Tube Reactor Studies

SRI International Project P21429

- Jed

[Vo]:learning LENR success from Vladimir Vysotskii

[Peter Gluck]

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2017/01/jan-05-2017-lenr-success-learning-from.html

peter
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Jones Beene]

Well 

Given the new realities of 2017 - I suggest that you remove the free 
edition, but re-kindle it with info on Rossigate and the "dark side" 
thread, charge $9.99 and call it the *Special**Trump edition for a Brave 
New World.*




 Jed Rothwell wrote:

Jones Beene wrote:

First I will give Jed a plug. This download to Kindle could be the
best buck you spend this year, even if you do not appreciate my
contrarian response to it:

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Fusion-Future-Jed-Rothwell-ebook/dp/B001RTSHZS/



That is out of date. Read the free version here:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf

I could convert it to Kindle format again, but no one has purchased it 
in years. Amazon has not paid me anything. This could be because the 
free sample text starts with the link to the free Acrobat version.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:

> First I will give Jed a plug. This download to Kindle could be the best
> buck you spend this year, even if you do not appreciate my contrarian
> response to it:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Fusion-Future-Jed-Rothwell-
> ebook/dp/B001RTSHZS/
>
That is out of date. Read the free version here:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf

I could convert it to Kindle format again, but no one has purchased it in
years. Amazon has not paid me anything. This could be because the free
sample text starts with the link to the free Acrobat version.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The dark side of dense hydrogen

[Jones Beene]

The Rothwellian theme (available on Kindle) which on closer examination 
perhaps is pre-Orwellian,  can be called "the democratization of energy" 
... but to the contrarian, it would explain an arcane detail which is 
troubling on several levels. ET can't call home.


First I will give Jed a plug. This download to Kindle could be the best 
buck you spend this year, even if you do not appreciate my contrarian 
response to it:


https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Fusion-Future-Jed-Rothwell-ebook/dp/B001RTSHZS/

OK. That arcane detail, which is explained by a contrarian take on 
free-energy advances, would be the present lack of communication with 
advanced civilizations on other planets - ala SETI and the Drake 
equation. ET is quiet. Most experts who use their best guesses to  fill 
in the blanks on the Drake equation...


http://www.space.com/25219-drake-equation.html

... estimate that there should be many advanced civilizations in the 
Universe, a few of whom are close enough that we  should be able to 
communicate with them or at least catch glimpses of their broadcast 
signals. Except ... that is, for the last term in the Drake equation ( L 
= The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into 
space). This is the troubling part. Maybe advancing science invariable 
hits a plateau where it always... or almost always ... self-destructs. 
Maybe every civilization that discovers LENR succumbs to the dark side.


Which is to day: there is a fair chance that LENR, instead of being the 
savior of the planet - is instead, the kiss of death. One a civilization 
acquires LERN and massive power (of the kiloton variety) is put into the 
hands of every nut-case with a cause - civilization, as we know it 
collapses!


Let's face it, the average human is stupid and short sighted. IQ 100 is 
above ape level, but not far enough above. Religions can and do prey on 
that stupidity to convert an army of true believers into Martyrs for the 
cause. Give a potential martyr control of the equivalent of a kiloton of 
explosives and humanity is doomed. "Planet of the Apes" here we come. 
There is simply no way to control free-energy in the hands of fanatics.


OK - good time to announce that the bit of ultimate cynicism (expressed 
above) started out only as gallows humor of sorts - a counterpoint to 
the wild idealism which we see expressed in many advocates of LENR. Yet 
the more you think about it, the more you cannot write it off.


There is an arguable case for the proposition that "the democratization 
of energy" - putting real power into the hands of the average human - is 
actually the death knell of human progress.


Jed Rothwell wrote:


Eric Walker wrote:

In addition to the possibilities that have been mentioned, there
is another that comes to mind should at some point LENR be
harnessed as a practical source of energy. Consider small, quiet
drones the size of hummingbirds, which are able to linger in an
area for months on end.  With such devices a state player could
quietly assassinate anyone who was not deep in some bunker.


Yes. I described this in chapter 11 of my book. Along with several 
other nasty weapons. I heard about these things from people in the 
military such as Adm. Griffin. Military experts are well aware of how 
cold fusion might be used to enhance conventional weapons.


New energy sources have played a key role in military technology since 
1600, especially in naval warfare after 1800. Ironclad ships (and 
later steel ships) and big guns would not be possible without steam 
engines. Sailing ships would never be able to support them. Steam 
power had to come first.


- Jed