Re: [Vo]:Re: Defkalion GT send video of internal testing

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
I must agree. I was a
  little underwhelmed when I saw that after the way DGT were going
  on about their high tech lab etc.

On 30/01/12 11:42, Mattia Rizzi wrote:

  

  LOL
  This is the high technology lab of Defkalion as said by
Jed’s experts?
  

   
  
From: Alain Sepeda

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 11:47 AM
To: Vortex List 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:FYI: Defkalion GT send
  video of internal testing
  

 
  
  finally I've see this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuRGpRZ1t5E

some photos, few seconds of testing phases... blair witch
style...
I've noticed the long thin pipes for H, (for saferty I
imagine).
the small rheostat...
not a show.


2012/1/30 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com
  
from defkalion GT 

  You can watch some shots from
our internal testing on Hyperion "bare" reactors in
one of our labs at 
=Thank you for your attention
  
I could not see the video (thanks to Websense)
tell me if it is interesting.

normally it should be boring. but who know, maybe it
is a new episode of Madagascar.
  


  

 
  

  

  

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Here is the link to that
  device http://www.ergenics.com/page22.htm

On 25/01/12 07:59, Alain Sepeda wrote:
Periodinc dumping of H seems not true for me.
  the tank would be empty quickly, and it would be dangerous.
  DGT clearly said that no "Vent" is done, except in catastrophic
  situation, that induce shutdown and maintenance.
  
  however maybe is there a reversible storage (I have seen here a
  pattented device to heat catalystic exhaust cleaner),
  that allow to absorbe or free H stored inside an hydrid, or
  alike...
  
  another simple solution could be a mechanical piston to tune
  pressure quickly.
  
  

  
I see
three solenoid valve controls for hydrogen in/out
and the control circuitry which indicates clearly to
me that hydrogen is being periodically dumped and
refilled by computer control.
  

  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:University of Bologna Terminates Relationship With Rossi

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
BTW, you need to put the
  vortex email address (vortex-l@eskimo.com) in the reply-to field
  of your email client otherwise replies to your questions don't go
  the mailing list but only you.

On 25/01/12 11:45, zer tte wrote:

  Hi,

Can we establish a link between rossi's related annoucements and
"jonp" downtimes ?

How long do those downtimes usually last ?
(i'm not a regular visitor of jonp but i guess the vortex
collective has the answer)

Thank you.
 
  

  

Re: [Vo]:LEAD shielding - a dual purpose?

[Energy Liberator]

On 25/01/12 15:41, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote:

Somewhere in a recent collection of Vort posts was a thread or two
touching on speculation (evidence?) that the source of the massive
amount of exothermic heat generated from Rossi's eCats is actually due
to gamma radiation being emitted from the reactor core. It is the
generated gamma radiation (which itself is not necessary hot in the
thermal sense) that subsequently bombards the surrounding lead
shielding, thus HEATING up the lead.
That came from Rossi's recent radio interview apparently. I only 
listened to the interview once and didn't pick up on that but Aussie Guy 
mentioned it in his summarized list of key points from that interview 
which he posted here. I questioned it at the time as it struck me by 
surprise as I expected all the heat to come solely from the actual 
reaction.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
I think Rossi's best
  chance is to stop giving out contradicting information /
  statements. A couple of weeks ago the home e-cat was going to ship
  at the end of this year, then yesterday he states that it won't be
  for another 12-18 months. What happened? There is the continuing
  inconclusive specification of the home e-cat, not to mention all
  the issues with the 1MW plant. It strikes me that he seems to be
  in a bit of panic mode as he's realised that DGT may indeed have
  something and beat him to market with a superiorly engineered
  product.

Rossi really needs to get
  a team of professional engineers to take his products and engineer
  them to refined commercial products. That is assuming he hasn't
  already got a team doing this. If he has there is not much
  evidence of it.

As for Ampenergo, it still
  exists and is still active http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:211773132719711::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:1852164.
  Why the e-mail address doesn't work is anyones guess. Saying that
  has anyone managed to get in contact with Hydrofusion? I sent a
  couple of e-mails in the past and never got a reply or any
  acknowledgement of them receiving my e-mail. It's things like this
  that fuel the sceptics and the scam rumours.
  
  What is surprising, assuming DGT have what they say they have, is
  how quick DGT managed to come up with their own reactor
  technology. If no information transfer occurred between Rossi and
  DGT as Rossi states (which I don't believe) then DGT really pulled
  one out of the hat. I'm surprised no one else has managed to
  replicate yet if DGT managed it without any IP transfer from
  Rossi. In a way I feel sorry for Rossi as he has possibly found
  the answer to clean cheap energy but his personality may prevent
  him from actually being the first to market it commercially. Rossi is his own worse enemy. It may be as Jed said that he
  could be doing this deliberately to keep people off his back and
  to keep competitors from homing in.
  
  

On 24/01/12 12:18, Vorl Bek wrote:

  Wolf Fischer wrote:


  
there have been two different news lately:

  
  

  
The first one being that Ampenergo seemingly has gone "inactive" 
(although I don't know what this exactly means, if this is even 
the company which is related to Leonardo, how this would affect
Rossi, etc.):

  
  

  
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1897

  
  

  
Second: The University of Bologna has seemingly terminated the 
contract with Rossi, as Krivit has posted:

  
  

  
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/24/university-of-bologna-terminates-relationship-with-rossi/

  
  
It seems to me Rossi's best chance is to hold conference calls with
mom-and-pop investors and ask them to contribute $100 so that Rossi
can do the last bit of engineering needed to stabilize the e-cat
and allow him to run it for more than 4 hours.

In return, they will get a $500 credit on whatever e-cat model they
decide to buy, whenever the model gets made.

The way it looks now, Rossi's enterprise is tottering, but he seems
to have a number of Believers who would probably fork over the $100
or even more.



  

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
From what I understand
  with regards to DGT's licensing, is that the license fee gives you
  all the necessary info to start the production. So all you need to
  do is find a premises of sufficient size and then DGT will give
  the blue prints for the manufacturing plant. what is not clear is
  if the license fee also includes the tools and machinery in the
  plant.
  
  I think (just my hunch) DGT were working on their reactor before
  the agreement with Rossi fell apart. From their dealing with Rossi
  they probably discovered that they wouldn't be able to work with
  him and that he most likely would fail to deliver on the terms of
  their agreement, i.e. demo a device running for 48hours. They
  probably kept close to Rossi and went along with him all the while
  they could find out as much as they could about the workings of
  his reactor and at any opportunity steal his IP. Again this is
  just my thinking.
  
  I find it hard to believe they magically developed their own
  reactor that quickly (when others are still trying) and have
  supposedly got it reliable and producing high temp steam without
  any IP transfer from Rossi. They must have got the secret or seed
  from Rossi that allowed them to proceed so quickly.
  
  It still remains to be seen how quick DGT get their product to
  market though and it all depends on them getting their
  certification.

On 24/01/12 13:00, Wolf Fischer wrote:

  
  Probably Rossi has some NI persons on the controlling front...? If
  Rossis statement about production facility planning is true there
  must be other engineers involved (although the thought of Rossi
  doing every single piece of engineering on himself makes me laugh
  :))
  
  Perhaps (my theory): Defkalion started gathering professionals and
  therefore working on their own reactor from the beginning of
  August, whereas Rossi started the more professionalized work after
  the "successful" 1MW plant test (at least it seems like this to
  me). Therefore Defkalion might have a 3 to 4 month lead on Rossi?
  
  However, what interests me then, is: How long until one can buy a
  Hyperion? (given that the certification runs fine for Defkalion).
  As they only sell licenses the licensee has to first start
  developing a concept on what the production looks like. This in
  turn might Rossi give some lead back, doesn't it?
  
  Wolf
  
  
  

I think Rossi's best
  chance is to stop giving out contradicting information /
  statements. A couple of weeks ago the home e-cat was going to
  ship at the end of this year, then yesterday he states that it
  won't be for another 12-18 months. What happened? There is the
  continuing inconclusive specification of the home e-cat, not
  to mention all the issues with the 1MW plant. It strikes me
  that he seems to be in a bit of panic mode as he's realised
  that DGT may indeed have something and beat him to market with
  a superiorly engineered product.

Rossi really needs to
  get a team of professional engineers to take his products and
  engineer them to refined commercial products. That is assuming
  he hasn't already got a team doing this. If he has there is
  not much evidence of it.

As for Ampenergo, it
  still exists and is still active http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:7:211773132719711::NO:7:P7_CHARTER_NUM:1852164.
  Why the e-mail address doesn't work is anyones guess. Saying
  that has anyone managed to get in contact with Hydrofusion? I
  sent a couple of e-mails in the past and never got a reply or
  any acknowledgement of them receiving my e-mail. It's things
  like this that fuel the sceptics and the scam rumours.
  
  What is surprising, assuming DGT have what they say they have,
  is how quick DGT managed to come up with their own reactor
  technology. If no information transfer occurred between Rossi
  and DGT as Rossi states (which I don't believe) then DGT
  really pulled one out of the hat. I'm surprised no one else
  has managed to replicate yet if DGT managed it without any IP
  transfer from Rossi. In a way I feel sorry for Rossi as he has
  possibly found the answer to clean cheap energy but his
  personality may prevent him from actually being the first to
  market it commercially. Rossi is his own worse enemy. It may be as Jed said
  that he could be doing this deliberately to keep people off
  his back and to keep competitors from homing in.
  
  

On 24/01/12 12:18, Vorl Bek 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
I think you're right
  Jones. Once DGT have their verified test results published Rossi
  will be under a lot of pressure as all attention will then be
  diverted to DGT and there success. Rossi may just realise this
  (with a little help from his wife) and try do another test before
  DGT have a chance to announce any results. It's his only chance.

On 24/01/12 15:03, Jones Beene wrote:

  
  
  
  

  Thank
you, Robert. This is essentially what I
have been saying for many weeks: Rossi has the ability
to achieve a short run
of nearly infinite COP 6-8 hours, after which there is
inevitable
quiescence. That is both his problem and his
ace-in-the-hole. He has not shown
an ability to move beyond that stalemate.
  
  Problem
is  thousands of man-hours of
high quality engineering are now needed, and he cannot
come close to doing it
alone, BUT the biggest monetary value for him would only
be possible if he could
do it alone. 
  
  However,
if he could have done it months ago,
then DGT would never have split, and Rossi would have
adequate capital, even if
not the entire 100 million. Now he is essentially
penniless and cannot even
give the University a pittance for desperately needed
help.
  
  His
time for monetizing even this slight developmental
advantage is running out. Once DGT puts on a convincing
show-and-tell,
Rossi is nearly toast. That could happen this week. They
may succeed with what
is an inferior ratio of gain. Since they have never
claimed self-running - this
is indicative of having success through another route
that does not involve a
few of Rossis secrets.
  
  Rossis
wife is smart enough to see
this. Rossis ego is too big. However, his wife will win
this argument
and Rossi will act like it was his idea. It is said this
particular family
dynamic is common in Italy.
  
  Look
for a Rossi independent demo before the
end of February, where  among other things - he just
admits the E-Cat
will go quiescent at some time, but in this demo he does
show the significantly
long unpowered mode (except for the RF) which removes
the possibility of a
chemical reaction.
  
  Jones
  
  
  From:Robert
Lynn 
  


   It
wouldn't
even matter if it only ran for 6 hours before falling into
quiescence,
clearincontrovertibleindependent validation of powerful
LENR would
still have the world beating a path to his door to give him
millions. 


  


   Realistically
Rossi
is in the game of selling a developmental advantage for a
massive new
field that will advance far ahead of his understanding
within months or years.
It is naive for him to try to sell a commercial product -
he doesn't have
the skills or resources to match what bigger players will do
in a year or two
(see how far ahead Defkalion
appear to be now if their latest claims are true). If he
doesn't realize
that soon then he will
ultimately be left poorer and probably embittered by his bad
decisions.
  

  
  


  

  

  

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
The issue I have with with Rossi's device is the high electricity
demand required to start off the E-Cat and the length of time
required to get it going and then the periodic electric demand to
keep it going. In comparison DGT's system seems draw much lower
power to start up and starts much faster. Do you think that's
because DGT have a better / more efficient heater or their reactor
fuel has some catalyst that kick starts the reaction faster. What
sort of temperatures are required to start the reaction?


On 24/01/12 15:27, Jones Beene wrote:

  
  
  
  
Wolf,

This
  comes under the
  category of puffery and it probably relates to net gain,
  if there
  is any truth to it. 

Obviously
  if one can
  achieve lots of heat without input  COP is infinite.
  However, when you factor
  in the quiescent period and the startup delay then the
  average over an extended
  period could be COP-6. 

In
  the case of DGT, they
  could be saying that COP=20 is the best gain ever seen,
  and they may want to
  downplay the fact that the average over time, is far less.
  

We
  await real data, in
  either case.

Jones




  

  

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Thanks for the explanation. I knew DGT were using a heat transfer
fluid but didn't realise they were preheating it to assist with the
start up.

"...The
lack of steady gain is part of the larger problem of
quiescence.
The active material goes in and out gain-mode sequentially. (we
have a possible
QM explanation for that oddity)..."
Is this problem of "quiescence" verified or something you been
informed of? I've not seen it mentioned anywhere.

One would think Rossi would monitor what DGT are up to and see if he
can learn anything but he seems completely convinced they have
nothing or at least publicly that is the impression he is giving. He
could learn a few engineering tips just by looking at the Hyperion
spec sheet. I think Rossi may be hurting from the whole DGT affair
and through blind spite is dismissing everything relating to DGT.

Just to be clear, I'm not a sceptic. I actually believe Rossi and
DGT have something but I'm keeping my feet firmly planted and will
question things that don't seem to add up.




On 24/01/12 16:22, Jones Beene wrote:

  
  
  
  
From:Energy
  Liberator: The issue I have with Rossi's
  device is the
  high electricity demand required to start off the E-Cat 


You
  may recall that DGT
  uses a heat transfer fluid, not water. 

One
  can employ a reservoir
  of hot fluid for faster startup, and this bulk reservoir
  can serve many units. Thus
  the need for electric input is mollified.

On
  vortex, a year ago we
  were suggesting that Rossi should do this (use a dedicated
  heat transfer fluid),
  since one can store heat like this with a low vapor
  pressure at high
  temperature, possible near or higher than the threshold
  for startup. 

With
  water you cannot do
  this - YET Rossi still does not get it. This is why he
  needs the strong engineering
  help that he is NOT getting. DGT almost immediately picked
  up on this, which
  indicates that they are either monitoring this forum or
  had come to the
  conclusion independently.

Typically
  with other positive
  results in Ni-H, which have been openly reported in the
  USA (Ahern) - the gain
  is in the form of a temperature inversion in which there
  is (X)
  input and the output is a multiple  lets say it is
  6*(X). 

Note
  that Ahern was
  getting only about 1.2(X)  that is: until recently when
  we found a
  commercial nanopowder may have pushed the multiple way up
  (Sorry the report of
  that advance is not ready for publication yet and subject
  to many more runs). And
  thank Zeus that MY is not here to pounce on this bit of
  delay in publication.

Anyway,
  early on, the
  skeptics hit on this need for constant input very hard -
  as being non-reconcilable
  with the claimed large gain, since after startup, any
  large gain should
  eliminate the need for further input. They are both right
  and wrong.

They
  would be correct if there
  was steady gain over time in the reactor - but this does
  not happen with a few
  grams of reactant ! The lack of steady gain is part of the
  larger problem of quiescence.
  The active material goes in and out gain-mode
  sequentially. (we have a possible
  QM explanation for that oddity).

Get
  it? 

I
  hope we do not have to re-convince
  the new-comers to Vo of the fact that this need for some
  kind of forced continuity
  (or stable input power) is indeed reconcilable with strong
  gain. 

It
  is part of the process
  and it is new physics.
  You will
  not find much on this in current literature but I am
  prepared to defend it once
  again if there are continuing doubts.

Jones

  

  

Re: [Vo]:REMOVING RULE2 VIOLATORS, 'subscribe' blocked.

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Thanks Bill
  
  Although I'm new to this mailing list and haven't contributed
  much, I still enjoy reading the opinions, ideas and news from
  those more knowledgeable then myself. I must confess that I'm here
  mainly for the Rossi / LENR threads though.
  
  It was becoming impossible and time consuming to filter the
  repetitive garbage from the real posts as they pretty much
  polluted all the threads. I have to say though it's been deathly
  quiet here today.
  
  

On 23/01/12 09:48, William Beaty wrote:
 
  Vtx thoughtcriminals. "Scoffing" and anti-fringe behavior, but
  didn't leave in disgust as suggested. Ungood! Time for Periodic
  Cleansing. 
  
  removed: 
  
   "Mary" "Yugo" 
   effwivakeef 
   Dusty Bradshaw 
   Shaun Taylor 
  
  Vortex traffic temporarily suspended. Getting everyone's
  attention. 
  
  I'll leave "subscribe" turned off for weeks/months, "unsubscribe"
  remains active. Email me directly for problems, suggestions. 
  
  
  (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) )
  ))) 
  William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST
  website 
  billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
  
  EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci
  fair 
  Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird
  sci 
  

  

Re: [Vo]:lanr.org

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
There is also lanr.com,
  which may or may not be related but I assume it is related as they
  too say they will be live at the end of January. They're talking
  about producing and selling reactor cores.
  
--
LANR
Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions


New site is in development and will be published by the end of
january.



We are currently in the initial phase of development.

We intend to start production on multiple types of reactor cores by
the end of 2012. 

The reactors will be cheap and may be available to everybody
depending on permit requirements.

It is optimistic, but the technology is fairly straightforward based
on our understanding.


On 20/01/12 13:17, Andre Blum wrote:

  
  Late last year there was a somewhat exciting announcement
  somewhere, I guess in a comments section of a blog, of another
  startup (nordic, I believe), at lanr.org.
  If I look at that website now, it says:
  
  =
  
  LANR
Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reactions - Also known as Low Energy
Nuclear Reactions
  New site is in development and will be
published by the end of january.
  
  This site is
intended to become a discussion forum for people interested in
and engaged in LANR projects.
  
  =
  
  Am I mistaking, or did this initially say something quite more
  ambitious than becoming a discussion forum?
  
  Andre

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
This is what I said
  earlier. I don't recall Rossi ever saying that the container was
  shipped. The seems to have been assumed once Rossi said the
  customer was happy and the plant was sold.

On 19/01/12 08:44, Wolf Fischer wrote:

  
  I searched a little bit online. I can find some websites claiming
  that the Ecat was delivered to the customer. However I am not
  capable of finding a statement from Rossi where he says that the
  plant had been delivered to the customer. Just that the customer
  is happy and so on...
  
  Wolf
  
  

I think, this is the first time for me that Rossi was caught in
a direct lie... Or is it just me, remembering Rossi saying that
the container had been shipped? Of course this also sheds some
light on all the insider sources ;) Or Rossi is lieing again...

Wolf
-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX
Mail gesendet.


  
  Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net
  schrieb:
   This is comical! Ya gotta laugh. So,
did Rossi confirm what the Collective seems to be converging
to??? Y Thnk!!! BTW, Thanks go to Patrick Ellul for
taking the direct route, and just asking the horse! Good job
Patrick! -Mark From: Robert Leguillon [mailto:robert.leguil...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 10:03 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com You
guys must have missed the post by Patrick Ellul: 1. Italo R.
January 18th, 2012 at 2:02 PM Dear Ing. Rossi, I have
watched this interview with you in Bologna realized on the
12th of January 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc
In it appears a 1 MW container. May I ask you if that
container is the same used in the last test with ing.
Fioravanti and already sold to your customer? Thank you.
Kind regards, Italo R. 2. Andrea Rossi January 18th, 2012 at
6:44 PM Dear Italo R. Yes, it is the same: we are still
working on it with National Instruments and with the
Customer. It will take another month before it will be
ready. Warm Regards, A.R. - the floor strings are a moot
point...someone must have mopped 

  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
AG
  
  I agree that the plant was not moved. I was referring to Jones'
  comment on how could Rossi supposedly be at the customer's
  facility in the US the afternoon before the interview. If the
  customer's facility is in Italy then that would not be difficult.
  
  

On 19/01/12 12:09, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
EL,
  
  
  The plant has not moved, despite what has been said. The images
  confirm that.
  
  
  AG
  
  
  
  On 19/01/2012 6:08 PM, Energy Liberator wrote:
  
  Jones

Isn't it possible that the US customer's facility is in Italy?
If the

customer is military, as speculated to be, then it's possible
that they

are using one of their bases in Italy to monitor and deal with
Rossi and

the 1MW plant. The US have a base near Vicensa

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_Italy)

which is only 150Km from Bologna so it's quite possible that
Rossi was

at the 'customer's facility' the day before the interview. Not
saying

it's so but just saying we don't know everything.

  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

That stains on the floor could be water (or another fluid) which 
evaporated leaving no stain. Admittedly they look dark for water but may 
be a product of the exposure. So I don't think it's conclusive.


On 19/01/12 03:24, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

Daniel,

Try this image of the non and stained floors.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/shO4Ub6pXlC5p1kWhUIZ89MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink 



AG

On 19/01/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly.
Can you enhance the image?

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
But was it actually Rossi
  that said that or was it interpreted as that by a reporter,
  blogger, or some other party? I find that so much gets misinterpreted and
  misreported due to reports not always originating from original
  sources that it's difficult to keep track of what's really true
  and what's been misreported or lost in translations. I don't
  recall him actually ever saying that the plant shipped to the
  customer. I accept that I may be wrong. If you have a link, please
  post it. I'll need to do a search to see if I can find anything.

On 19/01/12 12:13, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
EL,
  
  
  Rossi stated the plant did ship to his US customer and he attended
  to do the install.
  
  
  AG
  
  
  
  On 19/01/2012 5:45 PM, Energy Liberator wrote:
  
  Perhaps the original 1MW plant never
shipped to the customer's location

as the customer wanted it fixed before shipping, i.e. the
leaking

gaskets, the control system etc. As I recall Rossi never said
the unit

was delivered to the customer's premises although I could be
wrong on this.

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
OK, I can't argue with
  that.

On 19/01/12 12:56, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Wolf,
  
  
  On 30 Oct 2011, Andrea Rossi said the 1 MW plant had been shipped
  to the customer and he was building the next 1 MW plant in a new
  container.
  
  
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=27#comment-106637
  
  
  Andrea Rossi
  
  October 30th, 2011 at 2:15 PM
  
  
  Dear Luke Mortensen:
  
  1- yes
  
  2- yes
  
  3- yes. gaskets
  
  4- different
  
  5- Miami (Fl), Boston (Ma), Manchester (N.H.)
  
  Warm Regards,
  
  A.R.
  
  Luke Mortensen
  
  October 30th, 2011 at 12:54 PM
  
  
  Dear Andrea,
  
  
  1. Is the 1MW container gone?
  
  2. Have you started building another 1MW in another container?
  
  3. Any improvements you want in version 2?
  
  4. Will the buyer of the next 1MW container be the same customer
  or a different customer?
  
  5. What city will you be working (hiring) in the US?
  
  
  Best wishes,
  
  Luke Mortensen
  
  
  AG
  
  
  
  On 19/01/2012 10:38 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote:
  
  AG,


Can you give us a link where he said that? I can't find any
except for

some websites (not directly related to Rossi) which say so.


Wolf

  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
This was my point earlier.
  Many things can be misunderstood or misinterpreted because of
  Rossi's use and understanding of English. I deal with a lot of
  foreign people in English and am used to how they phrase things in
  English or their understanding of English.
  
  It's also possible Rossi was expecting the plant to be shipped
  when he made that comment after which he and the customer decided
  to leave the plant where it was and work on it in Bologna.

On 19/01/12 13:01, andre_vor...@blums.nl wrote:
English
  is not my native language, but I think (only) when interpreted
  very liberally, "gone" can be interpreted as "sold". (like in:
  "going... going... gone").
  
  
  Andre Blum
  
  
  On 01/19/2012 08:56 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
  
  Wolf,


On 30 Oct 2011, Andrea Rossi said the 1 MW plant had been
shipped to the customer and he was building the next 1 MW plant
in a new container.


http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=27#comment-106637


Andrea Rossi

October 30th, 2011 at 2:15 PM


Dear Luke Mortensen:

1- yes

2- yes

3- yes. gaskets

4- different

5- Miami (Fl), Boston (Ma), Manchester (N.H.)

Warm Regards,

A.R.

Luke Mortensen

October 30th, 2011 at 12:54 PM


Dear Andrea,


1. Is the 1MW container gone?

2. Have you started building another 1MW in another container?

3. Any improvements you want in version 2?

4. Will the buyer of the next 1MW container be the same customer
or a different customer?

5. What city will you be working (hiring) in the US?


Best wishes,

Luke Mortensen


AG



On 19/01/2012 10:38 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote:

AG,
  
  
  Can you give us a link where he said that? I can't find any
  except for
  
  some websites (not directly related to Rossi) which say so.
  
  
  Wolf
  


  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
I agree. It does look as
  though Rossi is being contradictive in his statements. Maybe we
  should just ask him directly. I bet ecat.com didn't post
that interview now. Look at the can of worms it's opened.

On 19/01/12 13:09, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
The
  issue is:
  
  
  
  
  Rossi says the plant is gone (shipped).
  
  
  Rossi says he is attending the customer's US site to do the
  install.
  
  
  Rossi say he is working with the customer and NI and is making
  amazing progress.
  
  
  Rossi says it has not been returned by the customer.
  
  
  A video from 12 Jan shows it is still in the original site and has
  not moved.
  
  
  Rossi says the pant in the video is the 1st plant and will be
  ready in 1 month.
  
  
  
  
  Go figure.
  
  
  AG
  
  
  
  On 19/01/2012 10:49 PM, Energy Liberator wrote:
  
  AG


I agree that the plant was not moved. I was referring to Jones'
comment

on how could Rossi supposedly be at the customer's facility in
the US

the afternoon before the interview. If the customer's facility
is in

Italy then that would not be difficult.

  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

AG

If he is working on fixing leaking gaskets then he doesn't need the 
whole plant working so perhaps they are using the unit on the table for 
stress testing. Likewise NI may not require the whole plant working to 
do their work.


There is also the possibility that this unit is only a test bed and that 
the work NI and the other engineers are doing to improve the plant is 
done at the factory.


The more I think about it, it is unlikely that Rossi is building the 
plants at the location that the interview was filmed and Oct 28 test was 
held. It just doesn't have the space and facilities from what I can see. 
If he needs to be building 13 plants he'd want enough space where he can 
have a number of plants being built in parallel. I also think that he is 
keeping the location of the manufacturing secret so he definitely not 
using this location for production. It's obvious that there is not much 
going on in that workshop.


On 19/01/12 13:35, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

EL,

Work on it?

How?

Nothing is there to test it under load. How can you test for leaks 
with no water circulation system in place and no heat load to generate 
steam and increase the pressure?


I'm just an engineer, so I may be wrong but I don't think so.

AG

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

I believe this is probably the most likely case.

On 19/01/12 13:58, Vorl Bek wrote:

Maybe the container in the video and picture is a demo, like the
ones in car showrooms. The one the customer actually buys is the
one from the lot or the one being manufactured that is shipped in
a week later.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

I still don't think that was spelled out clear enough to ensure an non 
ambiguous answer.


You didn't specifically ask if that was the container that he is working 
on for the customer with NI. It's possible that the footage is recent, 
the container was the one from the test and is still there today but is 
not the container that was shipped / delivered to the customer.


Let's see how he replies. It would be nice to clear this up.

On 19/01/12 14:19, Andre Blum wrote:

FYI, I just queued to following question for moderation on JONP:


Dear Mr Rossi,

Following some discussion on vortex-l about the jan 12 interview on 
youtube, where it seems to show the 1 MW container in exactly the same 
spot as on the 28th of October:

(1) Is that recent footage? Is the container still there today?
(2) How does that relate to your earlier statement that the container 
was shipped?


..we were just wondering.

Good luck!
Andre

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

AG,

Not that it changes anything, but why do you expect the facility to be 
heated by the e-cat? Rossi said that the facility that he was heating 
with the e-cat was sold to raise funds to take this project further.


What is clear is that we just don't know what is going on. I hope Rossi 
clears this up otherwise it's going to throw a bad light over him and 
his work.


On 19/01/12 14:46, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

Daniel,

It is also obvious that there are no E-Cats heating that facility in 
Italy. You may ask is heating needed in a Florida E-Cat manufacturing 
plant?


There are no coolant circulation systems nor heat exchangers attached 
to the 12 Jan imaged BBB. How can there be any testing of the BBB in 
operation?


There was a single Fat Cat unit in test mode in the next room, with a 
prototype home E-Cat on the next table. This sure seems like Rossi's 
Italian RD centre that he talks of.


AG

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Whilst that confirms that
  the plant never left the facility, seeing the facility so empty
  and devoid of activity certainly doesn't look like a there is much
  research, or optimisation work going on with NI or any other
  partner engineers. Of course it is possible that the work is going
  on at another location on a couple of sample fat cats removed from
  the 1MW plant. For all we know NI have a couple of fat cats
  sitting in their workshop in the US to play with.
  
  We can only wait and see. I do admit that it is a little
  disappointing though and I'm sure ecat.com didn't expect this sort
  of backlash from their video.


On 19/01/12 15:27, Frank Acland wrote:
I emailed Andrea Rossi this morning about this issue
  and recieved the following supply:
  
  
  "
Of course there has been a misunderstanding due
  to my bad translation. The 1 MW plant has been accepted and
  sold ( hence "gone") but it remained in our factory of Bologna
  for fixings and for National Instruments improvements of the
  control systems.
Warm Regards,
A.R."

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Aussie
  Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  EL,

Yup. The BBB never moved, was never gone, was never shipped,
was never returned, is not currently operational and is not
in testing despite what Rossi has claimed.

Also that facility is not heated with an E-Cat.

Is there another facility that is making fully functional
E-Cat, has a production line, has an advanced RD
facility and the US customer has one of these units? Maybe.
But we have no proof of that.

All we need is ONE photograph of another E-Cat on a
production. Rossi claims to be making another 13. Why not
post a photo of that line? Will that give away trade
secrets? Instead what we get is a video of the 28 Oct BBB.
Is that all Rossi has to show?

If so I have wasted a lot of my and my companies time and
money.

AG
  


  

  

Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
That to me looks like it
  was from Jan 13 2009, not a few days ago.

On 18/01/12 13:05, Paul Calvo wrote:
what do you make of this statement by Joe Zawodny /
NASA a few days ago?
  

  http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2009/01/13/capture-the-moment/
  
  
  
  
  
  
  ==


  On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 6:38 PM,
Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com
wrote:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=14#comment-171562
  
  *
   Andrea Rossi
   January 17th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
   http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=14#comment-171562
  
  
   Dear Mark Szlazak:
   It will be cm 30 x 30 x 12 circa. Not able to make
  electricity yet.
   Able to make heat and sanitary water ( this is a new of
  today:
   resolved also this problem).
   Warm Regards,
   A.R.
  
  
  http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171368
  
  *
   Andrea Rossi
   January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
   http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171368
  
  
   Dear Christian Scholl:
   The principle is this, yes, but it will be simplyfied.
   Warm Regards,
   A.R.
  
  *
   Christian SCHOLL http://www.cem-expert.fr/index.cfm
   January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 PM
   http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171038
  
  
   Dear Andrea Rossi,
  
   Domestic E-Cat will be delivered with differents heat
  exchanger:
   boiler for hot water, heat exchanger for hot air, full
  cupper
   electrode to replace steatite water heater ?
   Best regards,
  
   C.SCHOLL
  
  

  
  

  

  

Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
It's remarkable how quick
  things change with this. In a previous post on JONP a few days
  ago, Rossi specified a size of 40x40x40, now it's significantly
  smaller. It's great that he can now provide hot water too as that
  increases the appeal even further allowing for complete
  replacement of conventional gas / oil boilers in the home.
  
I'm not familiar with how UL certification works but wouldn't
these changes, especially such a size change, affect the
certification process? I'm assuming the Rossi is only getting
certification for the core reactor unit and everything else will be
'bolt on' afterwards.

On 17/01/12 23:38, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=14#comment-171562
  
  
  *
  
   Andrea Rossi
  
   January 17th, 2012 at 4:41 PM
  
  
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=14#comment-171562
  
  
   Dear Mark Szlazak:
  
   It will be cm 30 x 30 x 12 circa. Not able to make electricity
  yet.
  
   Able to make heat and sanitary water ( this is a new of today:
  
   resolved also this problem).
  
   Warm Regards,
  
   A.R.
  
  
  
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171368
  
  
  *
  
   Andrea Rossi
  
   January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 AM
  
  
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171368
  
  
   Dear Christian Scholl:
  
   The principle is this, yes, but it will be simplyfied.
  
   Warm Regards,
  
   A.R.
  
  
  *
  
   Christian SCHOLL http://www.cem-expert.fr/index.cfm
  
   January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 PM
  
  
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171038
  
  
   Dear Andrea Rossi,
  
  
   Domestic E-Cat will be delivered with differents heat
  exchanger:
  
   boiler for hot water, heat exchanger for hot air, full cupper
  
   electrode to replace steatite water heater ?
  
   Best regards,
  
  
   C.SCHOLL
  
  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Perhaps the original 1MW
  plant never shipped to the customer's location as the customer
  wanted it fixed before shipping, i.e. the leaking gaskets, the
  control system etc. As I recall Rossi never said the unit was
  delivered to the customer's premises although I could be wrong on
  this.

On 18/01/12 18:47, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Hello
  group,
  
  
  Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc
  
  
  Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that:
  
  - Rossi is currently in Bologna
  
  - Rossi's test site appears to be cold
  
  - The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last "public" demo is
  in Bologna too
  
  - There appears to be a new control box.
  
  
  Have I missed anything else?
  
  
  Cheers,
  
  S.A.
  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Jones
  Isn't it possible that the US customer's facility is in Italy? If
  the customer is military, as speculated to be, then it's possible
  that they are using one of their bases in Italy to monitor and
  deal with Rossi and the 1MW plant. The US have a base near Vicensa
  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_Italy)
  which is only 150Km from Bologna so it's quite possible that Rossi
  was at the 'customer's facility' the day before the interview. Not
  saying it's so but just saying we don't know everything.

On 19/01/12 01:53, Jones Beene wrote:

  AG,

I agree. However, even if the maker of the Jan 12 vid incorporated a clip of
the BBB from before it was shipped, we still have to deal with AR's
statement that he was "replacing gaskets" on that same unit at this time.
The location is not known but if it is "somewhere" besides Bologna, then
that is the problem ... since the statement came hours before the interview
- when we know he was in Bologna. 

Was he at the customer's facility the afternoon before, and then caught a
quick flight back, to do the interview? That would explain it, but methinks
the strings of rationalization that make this episode "not seem" to be as
suspicious as it is - are getting longer by the hour.

Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is
valid, but with the man. 

Jones

-Original Message-
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat 

Jones,

All that can be said at the present point in time is the images are of the
same BBB. Until we can determine the date of the Jan 12 video 
interview's images of the BBB, any assumptions are just guess work.

Differential staining on the floor in front of the E-Cat plant is 
suggestive of the Jan 12 image actually being taken before the 28 Oct image.


AG


On 19/01/2012 11:41 AM, Jones Beene wrote:

  
Daniel,

You seem to be implying that you are content that Rossi could have lied
about there being a mystery customer, when there was none; instead of
that he lied about the customer sending it back?

Jones

  
  




  

Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
In Aussie Guy's summary of
  the key points of the show he stated "Heating is via low energy
  Gammas hitting the lead shielding." I must of missed that in the
  interview and will have another listen when I get time.
  
  This sounds to me that the heat used to heat the water is produced
  by the heating of the lead shield by the radiation rather than the
  heat from the actual reaction itself. So in effect the lead shield
  has become the heat exchanger. Is my interpretation correct? If so
  this could explain why Rossi doesn't use another material (similar
  to DGT) for the shielding.
  

On 16/01/12 07:58, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Mark,
  
  
  Rossi claimed, in the latest interview, two 511 keV gammas, going
  in opposite directions, were produced and had been measured as a
  result of electron–positron annihilation inside the E-Cat reactor.
  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation
  
  
  AG
  
  
  
  On 1/16/2012 6:08 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
  
  Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's
interview...

    "512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected"


180 degs relative to what?



-Mark




  
  

  

[Vo]:E-CAT Home to be $50/kW

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
On Rossi's JONP -
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=11#comment-169012
  


  

   Andrea
  Rossi 
   
  January 13th, 2012 at 3:03 AM 
  Dear Albert Ellul:
Thank you.
The big science, after trying to ridiculize us, now has
understood that the E-Cat works, so now they are trying to
copy and make patents to overcome us, discourage us and
trying with this sophysticated way to stop us under a
disguise of an indirect vindication. Is a smart move, but
they are underevaluating us. I will never stop, within one
year we will start the delivery of million pieces at 50
$/kW, with a totally new concept, at that point the game
will be over. This technology must be popular, must cost a
very low price, must be a real revoluton, not a bunch of
theoretical (wrong) chatters.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

  

The price is really tumbling now.
  

Re: [Vo]:Rossi : customer can refill

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
I agree. This changes things significantly. It will be interesting
to see how this is achieved. It's simple enough to change a
cartridge with the nickel powder but how is the hydrogen taken care
of? Perhaps the whole reactor core including the hydrogen storage is
built into some sort of cartridge which then gets returned to the
supplier for refilling / recycling much like gas cylinders.

On 13/01/12 14:41, David Roberson wrote:

The requirement that a certified service technicianbe
  required to refill the fuel supply every 6 months has been a
  large burden. This announcement is welcome and will ensure
  that the ECATs become widely accepted. The news keeps getting
  better all the time. I am not sure that there are any serious
  issues left to resolve at this point except maybe for the
  power-up and power-down times. And of course, it would be
  wonderful if the devices could be miniturized.
Dave
  



  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:E-CAT Home to be $50/kW

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
I've been thinking about
  this a little more and am starting to wonder how Rossi is able to
  achieve such a low price. At $500 for 10kW, that's way lower than
  any conventional boiler that I know of. I'd image the actual
  process of machining and automated assembly, of the unit can be
  kept quite low with the volumes Rossi is talking about but what
  about the instrumentation and control costs? I would have thought
  that they would be a significant cost in the production of the
  unit. NI must have come up with some smart and economical ways for
  performing the monitoring and control of the device. I would also
  hope that each device is tested before being packaged for shipping
  which must involve some manual labour and so would account for a
  significant portion of the device's production cost. There is also
  the industrial design aspect. Rossi must have come up with some
  sort of design for an enclosure for the unit which must be cheap
  to manufacture and easy to remove for refuelling.


On 13/01/12 10:53, Energy Liberator wrote:

  
  On Rossi's JONP -
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=11#comment-169012

  
  

  
 Andrea

Rossi 
 
January 13th, 2012 at 3:03 AM 
Dear Albert Ellul:
  Thank you.
  The big science, after trying to ridiculize us, now has
  understood that the E-Cat works, so now they are trying to
  copy and make patents to overcome us, discourage us and
  trying with this sophysticated way to stop us under a
  disguise of an indirect vindication. Is a smart move, but
  they are underevaluating us. I will never stop, within one
  year we will start the delivery of million pieces at 50
  $/kW, with a totally new concept, at that point the game
  will be over. This technology must be popular, must cost a
  very low price, must be a real revoluton, not a bunch of
  theoretical (wrong) chatters.
  Warm Regards,
  A.R.
  

  
  The price is really tumbling now.

  

Re: [Vo]:E-CAT Home to be $50/kW

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
My understanding is that the low price per kilowatt only applies to
the domestic e-cat which are 10kW. The e-cats in the 1MW plant use a
different reactor and are more expensive at $1500/kW.

On 13/01/12 15:46, Dr Joe Karthauser wrote:

  Just because the price is so low per kilowatt doesn't mean
that you can buy it per kilowatt. I imagine that that's the
price for the big ones, and the smaller ones are more expensive.
  
  
  Joe

-- 
Dr Joe Karthauser
  
  
On 13 Jan 2012, at 15:28, Energy Liberator energylibera...@gmail.com
wrote:

  
  
  

  
  I've been thinking
about this a little more and am starting to wonder how Rossi
is able to achieve such a low price. At $500 for 10kW,
that's way lower than any conventional boiler that I know
of. I'd image the actual process of machining and automated
assembly, of the unit can be kept quite low with the volumes
Rossi is talking about but what about the instrumentation
and control costs? I would have thought that they would be a
significant cost in the production of the unit. NI must have
come up with some smart and economical ways for performing
the monitoring and control of the device. I would also hope
that each device is tested before being packaged for
shipping which must involve some manual labour and so would
account for a significant portion of the device's production
cost. There is also the industrial design aspect. Rossi must
have come up with some sort of design for an enclosure for
the unit which must be cheap to manufacture and easy to
remove for refuelling.
  

  

  

Re: [Vo]:video from NASA about lenr (cold fusion)

[Energy Liberator]

For some reason the technologygateway.nasa.gov site is not loading for 
me. It just times out. It's been doing that all morning. Is there 
another link to this video on another site?



video from NASA about lenr (cold fusion)

http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen safety compared to gas safety

[Energy Liberator]

I was wondering about the safety of hydrogen cylinders in homes. Wouldn't it be better to produce the hydrogen by electrolysis and  instead of storing it? The system could produce a small amount at a time and does it in a small chamber replenishing it as it's required.Alternatively, some safety system would need to be incorporated which would vent the hydrogen to atmosphere via a duct or flue in an event a problem arises like fire.From: Alain Sepeda Sent: Thu, Jan 5, 2012 12:49 PMTo: vortex-l@eskimo.comCC:Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen safety compared to gas safetyto feed the discussion, beside wikipedia data,here is airliquide encyclopedia page on hydrogenhttp://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/encyclopedia.asp?LanguageID=11CountryID=19Formula=GasID=36UNNumber=

2012/1/5 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com

Hi,discussion about radiation risk, make me think about Hydrogen explosion risk on Ni+H reactors for dayly use..

Re: [Vo]:20 kW home E-Cat LCOE

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Where did you get a COP of
  50 from? I thought it was 6. Rossi said in his interview that the
  running cost would be about 1/6th of a current conventional boiler
  running cost.

On 04/01/12 07:52, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Based
  on the recently announced 20 kW thermal home E-Cat costing $1,500
  and assuming it draws 0.4 kW (400 Watts) from the mains (COP 50),
  here is the LCOE and the individual item cost breakdowns.
  
  
  https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kLBSLYjhfkssP57d3w1J6dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
  
  
  What I find interesting is annual cost of the fuel and servicing
  is 4 times the Levelized Annual Investment Cost of the E-Cat
  hardware. Will home E-Cats become like ink jet printers that are
  sold near cost price to get the replacement ink business? But with
  a LCOE cost of $0.00456 / thermal kWh who cares? This is just
  about as close to free energy as you can get. No excuse for
  anybody on this planet to be cold again. With the E-Cat's thermal
  energy being so low cost, cleaning up dirty water and desalination
  of sea / brackish water should be low cost as well.
  
  
  Well done Andrea Rossi, what a lovely New Years present to the
  whole planet.
  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:20 kW home E-Cat LCOE

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
OK, I thought he made
  mention of a COP 50 somewhere that I missed. I wonder how
long after the US certification, it will be for Rossi to get
certification for Europe and the rest of the World. 

On 04/01/12 13:41, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
COP 6
  was for the original Fat Cat E-Cats as used in the 1 MW demo unit.
  I suggest the 10 and 20 kW home units, to be delivered in Sept
  2012, will not be anything like the Fat Cats and they will run in
  self sustain mode or very close to it. I estimated the control
  electronics and the primary circuit circulating pump would consume
  400 Watts. With 20 kW thermal output and 400 Watts electrical
  input, the COP is 50.
  
  
  AG
  
  
  
  On 1/4/2012 11:25 PM, Energy Liberator wrote:
  
  Where did you get a COP of 50 from? I
thought it was 6. Rossi said in his interview that the running
cost would be about 1/6th of a current conventional boiler
running cost.


On 04/01/12 07:52, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

Based on the recently announced 20 kW
  thermal home E-Cat costing $1,500 and assuming it draws 0.4 kW
  (400 Watts) from the mains (COP 50), here is the LCOE and the
  individual item cost breakdowns.
  
  
  https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kLBSLYjhfkssP57d3w1J6dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
  
  
  What I find interesting is annual cost of the fuel and
  servicing is 4 times the Levelized Annual Investment Cost of
  the E-Cat hardware. Will home E-Cats become like ink jet
  printers that are sold near cost price to get the replacement
  ink business? But with a LCOE cost of $0.00456 / thermal kWh
  who cares? This is just about as close to free energy as you
  can get. No excuse for anybody on this planet to be cold
  again. With the E-Cat's thermal energy being so low cost,
  cleaning up dirty water and desalination of sea / brackish
  water should be low cost as well.
  
  
  Well done Andrea Rossi, what a lovely New Years present to the
  whole planet.
  
  

  
  

  

Re: [Vo]:POLITICAL What is the best way to advocate?

[Energy Liberator]

On 23/12/11 14:40, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I am pretty sure the reason is because he wants to keep a low profile. 
He wants enough people to believe it is real to attract customers, but 
not so many that it attracts competition or attention from the 
authorities. He does not want the DoE to think it is real. I wouldn't 
want that either, if I were him. Heck, I wouldn't want that, being me. 
The longer they stay out, the better. Only the DoD is helpful.


- Jed

I can see the reasoning behind that but what baffles me is if that is 
the case then why even set up in the US?  Of all places that's got to be 
the worse place. He would have been better off keeping it in Europe 
until everything / he is ready to go global with it.


I really hope that this secret customer (who is supposedly is also 
helping him sort out problems and develop the high temperature version) 
really benefits Rossi's plans and doesn't screw him one they are finished.

Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
Nice find. Now all we need
  is someone to do a drive by and take a few photos to see the
  progress of the factory.

On 21/12/11 04:30, Giovanni Santostasi wrote:
So the coordinates of the Defkalion factory are:
  
  
  41.1188
  24.8674
  
  
  Giovanni
  
  
  
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:25 PM,
  Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  AND HERE
IT IS !
Go on the left of the academy and you see a symbol of a
  factory. If you translate from Greek this what you get:


FormerFactoryAtmatzidis
  
  Itwill
house the1of
the 3plantsof
the companypowerDefkalion.
  Alsotherehave
been someinstallation
work.


Giovann
  

  
  On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:16
PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com
wrote:

  And here where the Police academy is located on
  google maps:
  
  
  http://wikimapia.org/17980152/Police-academy
  
  
  
Giovanni.
  
  

  
On Tue, Dec 20,
  2011 at 9:11 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  
Mary,
This was easy to check. There is
  indeed a Xanthi Police Academy. Not
  yet news if they are indeed warmed up
  by e-cats.


http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/cultureportalweb/print.php?article_id=1070lang=enprint_mode=article



  Giovanni


  

  
  On Tue,
Dec 20, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Jed
Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Mary
Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com
wrote:
  

  
  
  

  

  
I suggest
  you hedge your
  bets.
  

  
  
I've done that all
along.

  
  
  

Maybe amp it up a few
  notches?

  
  
  
  
  

  And please don't
patronize me. It's
not very elegant.
Grasshopper indeed.
 

Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion

[Energy Liberator]

On 20/12/11 20:32, Terry Blanton wrote:

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Jed Rothwelljedrothw...@gmail.com  wrote:

Defkalion is not only starting a company, it is
developing revolutionary technology, dealing with complex business
arrangements, and dealing with Rossi, who is a difficult person to do
business with.

So they *are* dealing with Rossi still?  I wonder in what way?

T

Hmmm. I thought that when I first read it but perhaps Jed is referring 
to the period in July / Aug when the relationship started to sour.

Re: [Vo]:CALL FOR REDIRECT OF SOME TOPICS OR DISCUSSIONS TO VORTEX-B

[Energy Liberator]

+1 I would live to see this list migrate to a forum for reasons already mentioned by Brad

Re:[Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research

[Energy Liberator]

  
  
I've been lurking here for
  a couple of months now and have learned a great deal from all the
  comments. But reading this really saddened me. I truly hope that
  one day these so called scientists that refuse to admit there is
  something going on with CF or LENR end up being discredited and
  ripped apart by the media for only looking out for their own
  interests and not for the better of science. What goes round must
  come round.
  
  I wonder what this will do for Rossi if, as is speculated, SPAWAR
  was his secret customer?