Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
Thanks, it's a nice informative confirming account, with useful photo -- I'm online here in Santa Fe, New Mexico, at 1:30 AM MST, waiting for their online demo... Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 2:53 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:22:35 -0800: Hi, [snip] Underwhelming, so far. One detail skeptics will likely hit on is seen in the Google translation http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=itu=http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.htmlprev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522focardi%2522%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd%3Divnsrurl=translate.google.comtwu=1 ... where internal temperature is said to be 1500 C. and that is under pressure. Let's hope it is merely a poor translation. The actual report says that there are places where the Nickel has fused, implying a temperature of 1500 ºC. (Melting point for Ni is 1455 ºC according to Webelements). [snip] BTW it occurred to me that the whole blog report might be a fake, so I went looking for press reports from the media that attended, and came across this:- http://au.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=donett=urlintl=1fr=slvlp=xx_entrurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbologna.repubblica.it%2Fcronaca%2F2011%2F01%2F14%2Fnews%2Ffusione_nucleare_a_freddo_a_bologna_ci_siamo_riusciti-11237521%2Findex.html%3Fref%3Dsearch Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
[Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
I do not know what to make of this. Here is an eye-witness report of a press conference, which sounds like what is scheduled for tomorrow. Perhaps this was a dress rehearsal and they intend to do it again. See: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.html (in Italian) http://translate.google.com/translate?js=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1sl=ittl=enu=http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.html (translated into English) According to this they are measuring the heat by weighing the amount of water boiled off. That's a good technique with such high power levels. The technique used to measure input power is not described. Someone named Celani was there. I do not know if it is Francesco Celani. This report is annoyingly vague. The author should have done more old fashioned reporting: what, where, who, when. It leaves many open questions, such as: How big is the device? Is it the one shown in the photo recently uploaded to this blog? Is this the press conference scheduled for tomorrow? Which members of the press were there? Perhaps it is clearer in Italian. Google translate is remarkable, but it has its limits. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
It has a link to a writing of yesterday, Celani is there- our friend Francesco. The essence is that the demo works. I have waited almost 22 years to see that. Details later, I am studying the documents. Peter On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I do not know what to make of this. Here is an eye-witness report of a press conference, which sounds like what is scheduled for tomorrow. Perhaps this was a dress rehearsal and they intend to do it again. See: http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.html(in Italian) http://translate.google.com/translate?js=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1sl=ittl=enu=http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.html(translated into English) According to this they are measuring the heat by weighing the amount of water boiled off. That's a good technique with such high power levels. The technique used to measure input power is not described. Someone named Celani was there. I do not know if it is Francesco Celani. This report is annoyingly vague. The author should have done more old fashioned reporting: what, where, who, when. It leaves many open questions, such as: How big is the device? Is it the one shown in the photo recently uploaded to this blog? Is this the press conference scheduled for tomorrow? Which members of the press were there? Perhaps it is clearer in Italian. Google translate is remarkable, but it has its limits. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
I do not know what to make of this. Here is an eye-witness report of a press conference, which sounds like what is scheduled for tomorrow. Perhaps this was a dress rehearsal and they intend to do it again. According to this link: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/01/multi-kilowatt-nickel-hydrogen-cold.html today was the italian press conference, and they are planning an online press conference tomorrow.
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
Rossi explained that the equipment that we saw today at a cost of about € 2000 per KW, KW a product from a power plant costs 10 times as much oil, the cost of a kW produced by a nuclear power station, considered the problem of waste, is not even calculable! But, but, BLP claims $25 per kW. Let the new energy wars begin! T
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
It has a link to a writing of yesterday, Celani is there- our friend Francesco. The essence is that the demo works. I have waited almost 22 years to see that. Details later, I am studying the documents. It seems they've made a similar anouncement in March 1995: http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/1995/marzo/30/fusione_fredda_successo_italiano__co_0_95033013842.shtml (in italian) http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=ittl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Farchiviostorico.corriere.it%2F1995%2Fmarzo%2F30%2Ffusione_fredda_successo_italiano__co_0_95033013842.shtml (translated to english)
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
Looks like they are claiming a COP of about 20. I guess we can live with that. T On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi explained that the equipment that we saw today at a cost of about € 2000 per KW, KW a product from a power plant costs 10 times as much oil, the cost of a kW produced by a nuclear power station, considered the problem of waste, is not even calculable! But, but, BLP claims $25 per kW. Let the new energy wars begin! T
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
Mauro Lacy wrote:According to this link: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/01/multi-kilowatt-nickel-hydrogen-cold.html today was the italian press conference, and they are planning an online press conference tomorrow. Ah. I get it. Thank you. I asked Bill Collis to watch the online press conference and let us know what happens. He is in Italy and speaks Italian. I asked him to let me know if he uploads or circulates a report about it. I was thinking for a moment that Italy is not just 8 hours ahead of us, it is 2 days ahead. If they develop this technology -- and we don't -- they can set their clocks 50 years ahead of us. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
Jed sez: ... I was thinking for a moment that Italy is not just 8 hours ahead of us, it is 2 days ahead. If they develop this technology -- and we don't -- they can set their clocks 50 years ahead of us. IOW, reports of the fall of the Roman Empire have been greatly exaggerated. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
Bill Collis will phone Francesco Celani and ask him what he thought. I expect Bill will upload or circulate a report today or tomorrow. I will pass on whatever I hear. I am feeling mighty blase about this. Even I find it so hard to believe, it makes no impact. I am busy making tedious changes to LENR-CANR.org, adding a list of ICCF conferences and papers, while I field occasional reports about the press conference. I -- along with Cousin Peter -- have been hoping for something like this for nigh-on 20 years. I have been expecting it. Yet I am not thrilled. I guess I will have to hear from Francesco and a few others, with some more technical details, before I can believe it. Or start to believe it. It will be a multi-step process. I suppose my sense of disbelief is how the skeptics feel toward all cold fusion reports. Now I know how they feel. I guess I can also understand why, in 1908, after Wilbur Wright flew in Europe and made headlines all over the Continent, people in America ignored the press reports and knew nothing about the event for weeks. I guess I should start being more respectful to Rossi despite the weird name of his blog and his incoherent patent. You cannot judge a book by its cover. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
Underwhelming, so far. One detail skeptics will likely hit on is seen in the Google translation http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=itu=http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.htmlprev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522focardi%2522%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd%3Divnsrurl=translate.google.comtwu=1 ... where internal temperature is said to be 1500 C. and that is under pressure. Let's hope it is merely a poor translation. Expensive Inconel reactors are rated to 800 C. and the best available time-dependent stress intensity values for a high temperature reactor material with long-term safety against rupture is shown to be about 950°C... and the photo indicates that Rossi is already skimping on the budget Go figure. Maybe this is indicative of why he has suffered two major lab fires, and that it had nothing to do with no wanting to report the failed prior work. Jones
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
The reporter is not scientist and not an engineer; he has done a good job- you see this if you read his previous two papers (links in this one) It is possible that in this system local thermal runaways take place and nickel melts in some places. The skeptics will not buy these generators and will burn their own bovine based dried biofuels in their stoves. Not the skeptics are/is the problem, but reproducibility of all the other systems. Being a friend of Piantelli, I have some doubts re Rossi but his merits have to be recognized. Using logical fallacies- everything can be demonstrated or on the contrary, infirmed. Let's wait for the facts. Cold Fusion is far from being a prosperous field. These Ni-H guys know the key of systems that work. On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Underwhelming, so far. One detail skeptics will likely hit on is seen in the Google translation http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=itu=http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.htmlprev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522focardi%2522%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd%3Divnsrurl=translate.google.comtwu=1 ... where internal temperature is said to be 1500 C. and that is under pressure. Let's hope it is merely a poor translation. Expensive Inconel reactors are rated to 800 C. and the best available time-dependent stress intensity values for a high temperature reactor material with long-term safety against rupture is shown to be about 950°C... and the photo indicates that Rossi is already skimping on the budget Go figure. Maybe this is indicative of why he has suffered two major lab fires, and that it had nothing to do with no wanting to report the failed prior work. Jones
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
From Jones, Underwhelming, so far. One detail skeptics will likely hit on is seen in the Google translation http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=itu=http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.htmlprev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522focardi%2522%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd%3Divnsrurl=translate.google.comtwu=1 ... where internal temperature is said to be 1500 C. and that is under pressure. Let's hope it is merely a poor translation. Expensive Inconel reactors are rated to 800 C. and the best available time-dependent stress intensity values for a high temperature reactor material with long-term safety against rupture is shown to be about 950°C... and the photo indicates that Rossi is already skimping on the budget Go figure. Maybe this is indicative of why he has suffered two major lab fires, and that it had nothing to do with no wanting to report the failed prior work. Underwhelming? If the reported temperature value turns out to be accurate the implication strikes me as OVERwhelming, not underwhelming, or did I misinterpret the actual intent of your statement. If 1500 C turns out to be close to the actual value generated, it strikes me as an engineering problem, a significant technical challenge that needs to be addressed. I cannot believe that there aren't engineering firms out there that wouldn't want to take concerted whack at the Holy Grail. We can be clever monkeys when sufficiently motivated by visions of grandeur and promises of overwhelming profits. Seems to me that this might put them in a similar predicament that BLP is presumed to be wrestling with right now. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A report on the Focardi Rossi press conference, which apparently already took place
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:22:35 -0800: Hi, [snip] Underwhelming, so far. One detail skeptics will likely hit on is seen in the Google translation http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ensl=itu=http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/01/bolognia-14111-cronaca-test-fusione_14.htmlprev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522focardi%2522%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd%3Divnsrurl=translate.google.comtwu=1 ... where internal temperature is said to be 1500 C. and that is under pressure. Let's hope it is merely a poor translation. The actual report says that there are places where the Nickel has fused, implying a temperature of 1500 ºC. (Melting point for Ni is 1455 ºC according to Webelements). [snip] BTW it occurred to me that the whole blog report might be a fake, so I went looking for press reports from the media that attended, and came across this:- http://au.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=donett=urlintl=1fr=slvlp=xx_entrurl=http%3A%2F%2Fbologna.repubblica.it%2Fcronaca%2F2011%2F01%2F14%2Fnews%2Ffusione_nucleare_a_freddo_a_bologna_ci_siamo_riusciti-11237521%2Findex.html%3Fref%3Dsearch Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
