Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Eric Walker]

A few days ago, I wrote this about the possibility of inducing beta decay
and electron capture in beta-unstable isotopes:

Consider that three-body electron-related decays involve a broadband
> spectrum, and that the primary decay products will carry most of the energy
> (I think) and any deexcitation gammas will have to make due with the small
> portion of remaining Q that is left over.
>

It also occurs to me that whatever is increasing the electron charge
density in the nuclear volume (e.g., the promotion of p-shell and d-shell
electrons into s-shells) will perhaps also increase the internal conversion
rate as well.  For example, if two or three orbital electrons are bumped up
into s-shells by a laser, they will spend more time in the nucleus, and
when it de-excites after the emission of a beta particle, their presence
will perhaps increase the likelihood of an electron being ejected from the
atom in place of de-excitation through the emission of a gamma.

What is the likelihood of several electrons being promoted to s-shells in a
short period of time, e.g., by laser stimulation or by UV radiation of a
suitable wavelength?

Eric

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil, Sounds very similar to creating the pyrophoric catalyst Rayney nickel 
where the lower melting Al is leached out of the NiAl alloy leaving nano sized 
pits. I think Mills likewise avoids reactive gases when using Rayney Ni such 
that poisoning is avoided,  H2 covalent bonding is available but reverses with 
heat and the more desirable Rydberg effect becomes available to modify the H1 
before re- associating into Rydberg molecules of varying fractional values…. 
IMHO :_)
Fran
From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 12:10 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

The fuel preperation process that Rossi uses as exposed in apendex 3 of the 
Lugano report shows that the surface of the 100 micron fuel particle is 
impregnated with carbon being most likely in the form of nanosized graphite 
particles. THese carbon particles are most likely melted into the surface of 
the nickel at high temperatures because the 100 micron particle gets hot enough 
to sinter many 5 micron particles together as a large aggragate.

Then pure lithium is added to cover the entire surface of the 100 micron 
particle. This converts the graphite to nanosized particles of lithium carbide. 
The LENR reaction does not occur in this preprocessing step because the 
sintering is done without hydrogen present. Rossi must uses a noble gas like 
argon or even better helium to sinter the 100 micron particle.

When the reactor is started with hydrogen, the lithium carbide gradually 
evaperates and a goodly amount of rydberg matter is produced. After a time all 
the lithium carbide is removed from the surface of the nickel particle leaving 
nano sized cavities on the surface of the nickel particles.

The surface of the ash from Lugano show no carbon remaining in the ash sample 
of the 100 micron nickel particle.

These nano cavities play a role in the continuing production of hydrogen 
rydberg matter as time goes on in the Rossi reaction.



On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Roarty, Francis X 
<francis.x.roa...@lmco.com<mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com>> wrote:
Axil, does the hydrogen have to desorb from the surface of the Ni? I liked 
everything you were saying to that point but still think the surface and 
lattice are needed to form inverse Rydberg hydrogen. I agree lack of oxygen or 
any reactive gases is key so the path of least resistance, covalent bond, is 
removed and that hydrogen could desorb from carbon at elevated temperature but 
think this added pressure pushes the hydrogen down into the Ni surface and NAE 
to form fractional hydrogen [IRH] - energy states lower than ground state 
afforded by vacuum suppression based on Casimir geometry.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 4:52 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

According to Holmlid, Hydrogen Rydberg matter is formed when there is no 
reactive elements available to form covalent bonds. Hydrogen must interact with 
itself. The hydrogen must desorb from a material that does not combine with 
hydrogen. Carbon at elevated temperatures does not interact with hydrogen.

When Rossi preprocesses his fuel, he sets up a condition were lithium and 
hydrogen desorb from the surface of his nickel particles at high temperatures. 
The same is true for Holmlid, who uses iridium as a substrate to store Hydrogen 
Rydberg matter produced by the iron catalyst until Holmlid hits the iridium 
with a laser shot.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Eric Walker 
<eric.wal...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg matter 
because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element includes 
include silicon and carbon.

Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts of 
beta emitters:

e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV

A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons 
spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.  Because 
there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic much heat 
could be derived from them.
Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil, does the hydrogen have to desorb from the surface of the Ni? I liked 
everything you were saying to that point but still think the surface and 
lattice are needed to form inverse Rydberg hydrogen. I agree lack of oxygen or 
any reactive gases is key so the path of least resistance, covalent bond, is 
removed and that hydrogen could desorb from carbon at elevated temperature but 
think this added pressure pushes the hydrogen down into the Ni surface and NAE 
to form fractional hydrogen [IRH] - energy states lower than ground state 
afforded by vacuum suppression based on Casimir geometry.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 4:52 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

According to Holmlid, Hydrogen Rydberg matter is formed when there is no 
reactive elements available to form covalent bonds. Hydrogen must interact with 
itself. The hydrogen must desorb from a material that does not combine with 
hydrogen. Carbon at elevated temperatures does not interact with hydrogen.

When Rossi preprocesses his fuel, he sets up a condition were lithium and 
hydrogen desorb from the surface of his nickel particles at high temperatures. 
The same is true for Holmlid, who uses iridium as a substrate to store Hydrogen 
Rydberg matter produced by the iron catalyst until Holmlid hits the iridium 
with a laser shot.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Eric Walker 
<eric.wal...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg matter 
because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element includes 
include silicon and carbon.

Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts of 
beta emitters:

e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV

A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons 
spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.  Because 
there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic much heat 
could be derived from them.
Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Axil Axil]

The fuel preperation process that Rossi uses as exposed in apendex 3 of the
Lugano report shows that the surface of the 100 micron fuel particle is
impregnated with carbon being most likely in the form of nanosized graphite
particles. THese carbon particles are most likely melted into the surface
of the nickel at high temperatures because the 100 micron particle gets hot
enough to sinter many 5 micron particles together as a large aggragate.

Then pure lithium is added to cover the entire surface of the 100 micron
particle. This converts the graphite to nanosized particles of lithium
carbide. The LENR reaction does not occur in this preprocessing step
because the sintering is done without hydrogen present. Rossi must uses a
noble gas like argon or even better helium to sinter the 100 micron
particle.

When the reactor is started with hydrogen, the lithium carbide gradually
evaperates and a goodly amount of rydberg matter is produced. After a time
all the lithium carbide is removed from the surface of the nickel particle
leaving nano sized cavities on the surface of the nickel particles.

The surface of the ash from Lugano show no carbon remaining in the ash
sample of the 100 micron nickel particle.

These nano cavities play a role in the continuing production of hydrogen
rydberg matter as time goes on in the Rossi reaction.



On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

> Axil, does the hydrogen have to desorb from the surface of the Ni? I liked
> everything you were saying to that point but still think the surface and
> lattice are needed to form inverse Rydberg hydrogen. I agree lack of oxygen
> or any reactive gases is key so the path of least resistance, covalent
> bond, is removed and that hydrogen could desorb from carbon at elevated
> temperature but think this added pressure pushes the hydrogen down into the
> Ni surface and NAE to form fractional hydrogen [IRH] - energy states lower
> than ground state afforded by vacuum suppression based on Casimir geometry.
>
> Fran
>
>
>
> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2015 4:52 PM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing
>
>
>
> According to Holmlid, Hydrogen Rydberg matter is formed when there is no
> reactive elements available to form covalent bonds. Hydrogen must interact
> with itself. The hydrogen must desorb from a material that does not combine
> with hydrogen. Carbon at elevated temperatures does not interact with
> hydrogen.
>
>
>
> When Rossi preprocesses his fuel, he sets up a condition were lithium and
> hydrogen desorb from the surface of his nickel particles at high
> temperatures. The same is true for Holmlid, who uses iridium as a substrate
> to store Hydrogen Rydberg matter produced by the iron catalyst until
> Holmlid hits the iridium with a laser shot.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Eric Walker <eric.wal...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg
> matter because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element
> includes include silicon and carbon.
>
>
>
> Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts
> of beta emitters:
>
>
> e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
> e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
> e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV
>
> A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons
> spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.
> Because there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic
> much heat could be derived from them.
>
> Eric
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jones Beene]

From: Jack Cole 
*   I wrote a short post about two papers that are of interest, but are 
negative regarding Ni+LAH. Jean-Paul Biberian has conducted a series of 
experiments with the Parkhomov formula … after some 20 experiments utilizing 
mass flow calorimetry revealed no excess heat.  Additionally, Budko and 
Korshunov report a series of 17 experiments generating no excess heat…. My 
conclusion at this point is that nickel and LiAlH4 does not reliably produce 
excess heat, and if it does at all, it is rare.
Yes that seems to be the painful lesson; and given many other failures not 
reported - it is very obvious that Rossi may have forfeited any chance of a 
valid patent, since he held back on details which have prohibited those 
“skilled in the art” from replicating the effect. 
Many observers seem to have an opinion about what was left out, but fortunately 
Leif Holmlid may have come to the rescue with a catalyst known to produce dense 
hydrogen. A population of dense hydrogen may be required.
BTW Jack – if memory serves, you used iron oxide and potassium in an early 
experiment which melted the heating wire. Looking back at that incident - what 
is the possibility that large gain from dense hydrogen reacted at once to cause 
the runaway?

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jed Rothwell]

David French pointed out that Biberian "apparently did not test the formula
described in the Rossi August 25th US patent. He omitted to include free
lithium." So his experiment is not a replication attempt according to the
patent, and it has no bearing on whether the patent is valid.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> Yes that seems to be the painful lesson; and given many other failures
> not reported - it is very obvious that Rossi may have forfeited any
> chance of a valid patent, since he held back on details which have
> prohibited those “skilled in the art” from replicating the effect.
>
Maybe not, for two reasons:

1. The art may be better defined than most people realize. The patent does
not have to include details that are known to experts. For example, the
Wright brothers patent for the airplane did not mention that the wings are
chambered. There were some attempts by Ferber to replicate in France with
flat wings. (See the photo on p. 6 of my paper.)

2. There are reports of successful replications, first by Parkhomov and
today by a group in Kazakhstan:

http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2178-Kazakhstan-held-a-successful-replication-with-nickel-hydrogen-systems/

Imagine this scenario:

In the coming months several more groups attempt to replicate. Most fail
but three succeed. Experts evaluating these three determine that the
calorimetry is good. A year from now many others have replicated using the
methods of these three successful groups. In this case, the patent office
will conclude that the three groups were PHOSITA and the others were not.
In that case the patent will be valid. There is no requirement that a
patent be easy to replicate. It is not always clear ahead of time who is a
PHOSITA.

As long as some group, somewhere, can replicate and that replication is
considered valid by most experts, even if the experts themselves cannot
replicate, the patent will be judged valid.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jack Cole]

Jed,

Brian Albiston

and me356 / MFMP

have included free lithium so far to no effect.  The Kazakstan replication
reported 2KWh excess, which I think would be well within the possibility of
chemical effects (assuming the Google translation can be trusted).  In
fact, that would be downright tiny over the course of an hour (~.5 watts).
There have been other occasional positives (as I have seen myself, MFMP on
one occasion, and Brian Albiston on one or two occasions).  I do agree Jed,
that there have not yet been enough replication attempts (although there
have been quite a few and the vast majority are negative).  Also, it seems
like the higher the quality of the replication attempt, the less likely it
is to be positive.  There is a large "file drawer effect" with most of the
negative replication attempts not being reported.  As far as I know, a
replication by Parkhomov has never been witnessed while producing excess
heat by anyone other than Parkhomov.  Parkhomov also seems to have gone
silent in terms of reporting any new experiments after the silly
photoshopping incident, which is unfortunate as he does seem to be very
skilled in many ways.

Of course one could argue that you must have the multi-layered sandwich
design from the patent (with it all sealed in and welded together).  I hold
out some hope yet.  I wish the current trend of results was not so negative.

Jack

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 8:47 AM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> David French pointed out that Biberian "apparently did not test the
> formula described in the Rossi August 25th US patent. He omitted to include
> free lithium." So his experiment is not a replication attempt according to
> the patent, and it has no bearing on whether the patent is valid.
>
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Eric Walker]

On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

Nevertheless, most of the data of LENR indicate that it is an thermal
> anomaly which is mostly non-nuclear – no gammas or neutrons -- unless
> incidental. That is why the results of Holmlid are so alluring.


Consider that three-body electron-related decays involve a broadband
spectrum, and that the primary decay products will carry most of the energy
(I think) and any deexcitation gammas will have to make due with the small
portion of remaining Q that is left over.  So a 1 MeV decay will lead to a
prompt electron with ~ 500 keV (on average, I think) and will not
necessarily lead to gammas that are too energetic, even if the decay
populates an excited state in the daughter nuclide.  Many beta decays are
of the order of 100-500 keV, in which case the numbers are even lower for
all products.

Here is why I think accelerated beta and alpha decay are a thing:

http://physics.stackexchange.com/q/212660/6713

BTW, your messages are arriving quite late.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Eric Walker]

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg
> matter because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element
> includes include silicon and carbon.
>

Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts of
beta emitters:

e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV

A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons
spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.
Because there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic
much heat could be derived from them.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Axil Axil]

According to Holmlid, Hydrogen Rydberg matter is formed when there is no
reactive elements available to form covalent bonds. Hydrogen must interact
with itself. The hydrogen must desorb from a material that does not combine
with hydrogen. Carbon at elevated temperatures does not interact with
hydrogen.

When Rossi preprocesses his fuel, he sets up a condition were lithium and
hydrogen desorb from the surface of his nickel particles at high
temperatures. The same is true for Holmlid, who uses iridium as a substrate
to store Hydrogen Rydberg matter produced by the iron catalyst until
Holmlid hits the iridium with a laser shot.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg
>> matter because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element
>> includes include silicon and carbon.
>>
>
> Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts
> of beta emitters:
>
> e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
> e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
> e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV
>
> A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons
> spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.
> Because there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic
> much heat could be derived from them.
>
> Eric
>

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:

> Both Parkhomov and the other group claimed success, but neither followed
> Rossi’s patent closely.
>
They couldn't have, come to think of it. The patent wasn't issued until
August 25, 2015. Maybe you mean an earlier patent? Anyway, if the
replication does not follow the patent exactly it has no bearing on it.
Even if the experiment works it cannot be used as evidence in support of
the patent. That is my understanding, based on discussions with David
French.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Axil Axil]

Free lithium was applied in the fuel preparation phase. Was fuel
preparation done where a 100 micron fuel particle was formed containing a
large amount of carbon?

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> David French pointed out that Biberian "apparently did not test the
> formula described in the Rossi August 25th US patent. He omitted to include
> free lithium." So his experiment is not a replication attempt according to
> the patent, and it has no bearing on whether the patent is valid.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Axil Axil]

It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg
matter because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element
includes include silicon and carbon. In the Lugano report, after fuel
preprocessing, the 100 micron fuel particle contained a large amount of
carbon. Also parkhomov Russian manufactured tube contained 20% silicon
oxide. It is possible that silicon monoxide might also be an unstable
rydberg matter catalyst that forms at high temperatures.

Also, Holmlid paints his catalyst with a mix of graphite and water in a
preprocessing step to amplify the production of rydberg hydrogen matter.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Free lithium was applied in the fuel preparation phase. Was fuel
> preparation done where a 100 micron fuel particle was formed containing a
> large amount of carbon?
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> David French pointed out that Biberian "apparently did not test the
>> formula described in the Rossi August 25th US patent. He omitted to include
>> free lithium." So his experiment is not a replication attempt according to
>> the patent, and it has no bearing on whether the patent is valid.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

RE: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jones Beene]

From: Eric Walker … Jones Beene wrote: 

 

BTW Jack – if memory serves, you used iron oxide and potassium in an early 
experiment which melted the heating wire ... (a special spillover catalyst 
called “Shell 105”, used by Holmlid, contains iron oxide and potassium)

 

Earlier I asked if any of the replicators had tried potassium or vanadium.  The 
reason I asked this was because 40K and 50V are natural beta emitters.  It is 
possible that UV radiation or electric arcing accelerate the decay of beta 
emitters…

 

Eric,

 

Perhaps it is more subtle than that. Nickel has the highest propensity of all 
elements to form beta emitters on isotopic shifts. This is because it is 
neutron-heavy while still being tightly bound. In a way, one can say that beta 
decay is nature’s way of rectifying “neutron heaviness” but without emitting 
neutrons. A tightly bound nucleus does not emit neutrons.

 

In Ni-64, the 6 extra neutrons (over the most abundant isotope Ni-58) make the 
nucleus of stable Ni-64 more than 10% more massive. This is  a singularity of 
sorts - the largest percentage excess of neutrons by mass in the periodic table 
for metals.

 

Nevertheless, most of the data of LENR indicate that it is an thermal anomaly 
which is mostly non-nuclear – no gammas or neutrons -- unless incidental. That 
is why the results of Holmlid are so alluring.

 

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Bob Higgins]

You have to be very careful of your formulations and observations when
using Fe2O3 in this chemical system.  Both the unoxidized Al and Li will
form a thermite reaction with the Fe2O3 which is very energetic.  The Li
thermite reaction will probably ignite first when the LiAlH4 decomposes to
LiH and liquifies.  If the Fe2O3 is finely divided, the reaction can
proceed very quickly and can melt even the alumina at over 2000C.  If you
have electrical coils inside with the fuel, as the system heats up, a hot
spot in the wire (maybe from corrosion) can ignite the thermite reaction.

I think this is why Rossi used such large particles of Fe2O3 in his
reactor.  Apparently he wanted this as a catalyst, but if the particles
were just too small it made a rapid thermite reaction and burned up his
reactor.

Bob

On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 6:09 PM, Jack Cole  wrote:

> Jones,
> Yes, good memory on the potassium and iron oxide.  Specifically, I used
> KOH, aluminum, nickel, Fe2O3, and LAH.  There were a few experiments with
> quick thermal accelerations followed by melting wires.  My instrumentation
> at the time was not good enough to determine if it was a power spike or if
> it was likely internally generated.  I would have to try again with my
> better instrumentation.  I might as well set up the cell phone muon
> detector app while I'm at it.  Good find for Blaze.
>
> Thanks for the ideas.
> Jack
>
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 5:48 PM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> *(resend – is anyone else having troub**l**e posting?)*
>>
>> *From:* Jack Cole
>>
>> Ø   I wrote a short post about two papers that are of interest, but
>> are negative regarding Ni+LAH. Jean-Paul Biberian has conducted a series of
>> experiments with the Parkhomov formula … after some 20 experiments
>> utilizing mass flow calorimetry revealed no excess heat.  Additionally,
>> Budko and Korshunov report a series of 17 experiments generating no excess
>> heat…. My conclusion at this point is that nickel and LiAlH4 does not
>> reliably produce excess heat, and if it does at all, it is rare.
>>
>> Regrettably that seems to be the agonizing situation which we are facing;
>> plus, given many other failures not reported - it is recognizable that
>> Rossi may have forfeited the chance for a valid patent -- by holding back
>> on details which have prohibited those “skilled in the art” from
>> replicating the effect.
>>
>> Many observers seem to have their own opinions about what was left out,
>> but fortunately Leif Holmlid has come to the rescue with a catalyst
>> known to produce dense hydrogen. A population of dense hydrogen may be
>> required for success. There probably is more than one way to get it, and
>> that detail is what Rossi has left out. If so, then it would be wise to
>> read Holmlid.
>>
>> BTW Jack – if memory serves, you used iron oxide and potassium in an
>> early experiment which melted the heating wire. Looking back at that
>> incident - what is the possibility that a large sudden gain from dense
>> hydrogen which reacted too fast and caused the runaway?
>>
>> (a special spillover catalyst called “Shell 105”, used by Holmlid,
>> contains iron oxide and potassium)
>>
>>

RE: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jones Beene]

Jed’s comment brings up several interesting points. 

Both Parkhomov and the other group claimed success, but neither followed 
Rossi’s patent closely. The Kazak group did not use resistance wire at all. And 
both apparently used LAH and nickel, but the nickel was not the same 
composition as Rossi’s. Anyone can “claim” success - and we should give them 
benefit of the doubt, but a US Court will not. If they do not get their work 
published in a peer reviewed journal, then it could be an issue. It is not 
required, but evidence of replication could be needed (by Rossi’s legal team). 
Parkhomov has apparently filed for his own patent, indicating he has found 
something unique. He could be uncooperative to Rossi. And of course the 800 
pound gorilla in the corner is BLP. 

In the end, it is very likely that the main thing Rossi can protect is using 
LAH as a catalyst with nickel. Nickel-hydrogen with potassium catalyst was 
patented by Thermacore twenty years ago, and is in the public domain. Same with 
lithium. BLP has wide patent coverage on many details of using alkali salts 
with transition metals. It seems that the only thing which can secure Rossi’s 
success without competition from many others is whatever detail that he has 
hidden away, as a trade secret, plus the use of LAH. 

Holmlid’s patent applications for ICF appear to be more valuable than does 
Rossi’s but that is a minority opinion. 

This unfolding IP situation presents shaky ground for any investment in IH or 
Leonardo– especially since Mills has claimed publicly to have LAH covered -- 
and BLP has that formidable patent portfolio - and the funds to defend it.

From: Jed Rothwell 
Jones Beene wrote: 
Yes that seems to be the painful lesson; and given many other failures not 
reported - it is very obvious that Rossi may have forfeited any chance of a 
valid patent, since he held back on details which have prohibited those 
“skilled in the art” from replicating the effect.
Maybe not, for two reasons:

1. The art may be better defined than most people realize. The patent does not 
have to include details that are known to experts. For example, the Wright 
brothers patent for the airplane did not mention that the wings are chambered. 
There were some attempts by Ferber to replicate in France with flat wings. (See 
the photo on p. 6 of my paper.)
2. There are reports of successful replications, first by Parkhomov and today 
by a group in Kazakhstan:

http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2178-Kazakhstan-held-a-successful-replication-with-nickel-hydrogen-systems/

Imagine this scenario:

In the coming months several more groups attempt to replicate. Most fail but 
three succeed. Experts evaluating these three determine that the calorimetry is 
good. A year from now many others have replicated using the methods of these 
three successful groups. In this case, the patent office will conclude that the 
three groups were PHOSITA and the others were not. In that case the patent will 
be valid. There is no requirement that a patent be easy to replicate. It is not 
always clear ahead of time who is a PHOSITA.

As long as some group, somewhere, can replicate and that replication is 
considered valid by most experts, even if the experts themselves cannot 
replicate, the patent will be judged valid.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jones Beene]

(resend – is anyone else having trouble posting?)

From: Jack Cole 
*   I wrote a short post about two papers that are of interest, but are 
negative regarding Ni+LAH. Jean-Paul Biberian has conducted a series of 
experiments with the Parkhomov formula … after some 20 experiments utilizing 
mass flow calorimetry revealed no excess heat.  Additionally, Budko and 
Korshunov report a series of 17 experiments generating no excess heat…. My 
conclusion at this point is that nickel and LiAlH4 does not reliably produce 
excess heat, and if it does at all, it is rare.
Regrettably that seems to be the agonizing situation which we are facing; plus, 
given many other failures not reported - it is recognizable that Rossi may have 
forfeited the chance for a valid patent -- by holding back on details which 
have prohibited those “skilled in the art” from replicating the effect. 
Many observers seem to have their own opinions about what was left out, but 
fortunately Leif Holmlid has come to the rescue with a catalyst known to 
produce dense hydrogen. A population of dense hydrogen may be required for 
success. There probably is more than one way to get it, and that detail is what 
Rossi has left out. If so, then it would be wise to read Holmlid.
BTW Jack – if memory serves, you used iron oxide and potassium in an early 
experiment which melted the heating wire. Looking back at that incident - what 
is the possibility that a large sudden gain from dense hydrogen which reacted 
too fast and caused the runaway?
(a special spillover catalyst called “Shell 105”, used by Holmlid, contains 
iron oxide and potassium)

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Eric Walker]

On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> BTW Jack – if memory serves, you used iron oxide and potassium in an early
> experiment which melted the heating wire ...
>
> (a special spillover catalyst called “Shell 105”, used by Holmlid,
> contains iron oxide and potassium)
>
> Earlier I asked if any of the replicators had tried potassium or
vanadium.  The reason I asked this was because 40K and 50V are natural beta
emitters.  It is possible that UV radiation or electric arcing accelerate
the decay of beta emitters.  If this is the case, and the process causes
significant heat, these elements might be the main show in the
light-element experiments, and the rest of the materials might just be
filler.

40K comprises 0.012 percent of elemental potassium and has a decay
half-life of 1.2e9 years.  50V comprises 0.25 percent of elemental vanadium
and has a half-life of 1.5e17 years.  I'm guessing the far shorter
half-life of 40K will more than compensate for its smaller abundance,
making potassium more promising than vanadium.

(I suppose there may be some Mills catalysts hiding out somewhere among
these elements as well; this is something I will leave to you and Robin to
sort out.)

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jed Rothwell]

Jack Cole  wrote:
>
> My conclusion at this point is that nickel and LiAlH4 does not reliably
> produce excess heat, and if it does at all, it is rare.
>
I agree these results call into question Lugano and Parkomov, but it is too
early to conclude that LiAlH4 does not work reliably. Perhaps Biberian and
Budko do not understand how to do the experiment correctly. Perhaps this
means the patent is not enabling (and therefore invalid), but then again it
might mean that Biberian and Budko are not PHOSITA.

I do not think we can judge. We do not have enough replication attempts. We
may never have enough. Many claims in cold fusion are never resolved
because not enough people try to replicate. For example, Ohmori's claims of
cold fusion with gold have not been tested as far as I know.

It is a darn shame they were not able to replicate easily.

As I wrote before, I think their calorimetry is better than Lugano or
Parhomov. That's not a good sign.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jack Cole]

Jones,
Yes, good memory on the potassium and iron oxide.  Specifically, I used
KOH, aluminum, nickel, Fe2O3, and LAH.  There were a few experiments with
quick thermal accelerations followed by melting wires.  My instrumentation
at the time was not good enough to determine if it was a power spike or if
it was likely internally generated.  I would have to try again with my
better instrumentation.  I might as well set up the cell phone muon
detector app while I'm at it.  Good find for Blaze.

Thanks for the ideas.
Jack

On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 5:48 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> *(resend – is anyone else having troub**l**e posting?)*
>
> *From:* Jack Cole
>
> Ø   I wrote a short post about two papers that are of interest, but
> are negative regarding Ni+LAH. Jean-Paul Biberian has conducted a series of
> experiments with the Parkhomov formula … after some 20 experiments
> utilizing mass flow calorimetry revealed no excess heat.  Additionally,
> Budko and Korshunov report a series of 17 experiments generating no excess
> heat…. My conclusion at this point is that nickel and LiAlH4 does not
> reliably produce excess heat, and if it does at all, it is rare.
>
> Regrettably that seems to be the agonizing situation which we are facing;
> plus, given many other failures not reported - it is recognizable that
> Rossi may have forfeited the chance for a valid patent -- by holding back
> on details which have prohibited those “skilled in the art” from
> replicating the effect.
>
> Many observers seem to have their own opinions about what was left out,
> but fortunately Leif Holmlid has come to the rescue with a catalyst known
> to produce dense hydrogen. A population of dense hydrogen may be required
> for success. There probably is more than one way to get it, and that
> detail is what Rossi has left out. If so, then it would be wise to read
> Holmlid.
>
> BTW Jack – if memory serves, you used iron oxide and potassium in an early
> experiment which melted the heating wire. Looking back at that incident -
> what is the possibility that a large sudden gain from dense hydrogen which
> reacted too fast and caused the runaway?
>
> (a special spillover catalyst called “Shell 105”, used by Holmlid,
> contains iron oxide and potassium)
>
>

[Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Jack Cole]

I wrote a short post
 about two
papers that are of interest, but are negative regarding Ni+LAH.

Jean-Paul Biberian has conducted a series of experiments with the Parkhomov
formula (now known to be a partial formula of Rossi).  The results after
some 20 experiments

utilizing
mass flow calorimetry revealed no excess heat.  Additionally, Budko
and Korshunov report

a
series of 17 experiments generating no excess heat.

>From Biberian:

Reproducing Rossi’s experiment following Parkhomov’s process is not as easy
at it seemed. After more than 20 experiments with nickel and LiAlH4 in
different configurations, within the precision of the calorimeter of +/- 2
Watts, no excess heat was measured. In this paper we have outlined some of
the difficulties related to this method.

Thanks to Peter Gluck

for
making these papers available.  My conclusion at this point is that nickel
and LiAlH4 does not reliably produce excess heat, and if it does at all, it
is rare.

Jack

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Axil Axil]

Without reading through these parers, did Biberian do a
fuel preparation preprocess as Rossi did in the Lugano fuel?

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Jack Cole  wrote:

> I wrote a short post
>  about
> two papers that are of interest, but are negative regarding Ni+LAH.
>
> Jean-Paul Biberian has conducted a series of experiments with the
> Parkhomov formula (now known to be a partial formula of Rossi).  The results
> after some 20 experiments
> 
>  utilizing
> mass flow calorimetry revealed no excess heat.  Additionally, Budko
> and Korshunov report
> 
>  a
> series of 17 experiments generating no excess heat.
>
> From Biberian:
>
> Reproducing Rossi’s experiment following Parkhomov’s process is not as
> easy at it seemed. After more than 20 experiments with nickel and LiAlH4 in
> different configurations, within the precision of the calorimeter of +/- 2
> Watts, no excess heat was measured. In this paper we have outlined some of
> the difficulties related to this method.
>
> Thanks to Peter Gluck
> 
>  for
> making these papers available.  My conclusion at this point is that nickel
> and LiAlH4 does not reliably produce excess heat, and if it does at all, it
> is rare.
>
> Jack
>

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Eric Walker]

Hi Jack,

On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Jack Cole  wrote:

My conclusion at this point is that nickel and LiAlH4 does not reliably
> produce excess heat, and if it does at all, it is rare.


Do you know if any of the replicators have been including potassium or
vanadium in their LiAlH4?

Eric