Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
In reply to H Veeder's message of Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:16:06 -0400: Hi Harry, [snip] When grains made of long chain molecules rub against one another molecules can be broken (this should happen with some plastics too). When a molecule breaks, it can either form two neutral molecules, or a pair of ions. The latter constitute opposing charges on two separate grains (each gets part of the original molecule). Breaking into two charged ions may be more likely in molecules containing atoms such as Oxygen which tend to hold onto excess electrons, thus retaining a negative charge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Here is another story about the same research. Apparently they detected the same effect with glass particles. http://www.livescience.com/43686-earthquake-lights-possible-cause.html If ions are formed in the way you describe wouldn't these microscopic charge differences tend to cancel out at the macroscopic level? Harry Yes, I would think so. That's the flaw in my theory. When two different substances rub together, one will probably have a greater electron affinity than the other, which would explain bulk polarization of charge, however the same can't be said for a single substance. I guess that's why they are so puzzled. Now I am too. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
I wonder if the fact that a different charge appears on the first separating grains which then biases the process to enhance that effect. I always seek out positive feedback mechanisms and this might be another. Something of this nature could make sense since the particles with the initial charge impacts other particles nearest to them greater than those at a distance. It would be interesting to determine what characteristics are common to the powders most active. Do they polarize easily? Is the dielectric constant the most important parameter? Of course conductive particles could not behave this way since the charges would leak off. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks In reply to H Veeder's message of Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:16:06 -0400: Hi Harry, [snip] When grains made of long chain molecules rub against one another molecules can be broken (this should happen with some plastics too). When a molecule breaks, it can either form two neutral molecules, or a pair of ions. The latter constitute opposing charges on two separate grains (each gets part of the original molecule). Breaking into two charged ions may be more likely in molecules containing atoms such as Oxygen which tend to hold onto excess electrons, thus retaining a negative charge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Here is another story about the same research. Apparently they detected the same effect with glass particles. http://www.livescience.com/43686-earthquake-lights-possible-cause.html If ions are formed in the way you describe wouldn't these microscopic charge differences tend to cancel out at the macroscopic level? Harry Yes, I would think so. That's the flaw in my theory. When two different substances rub together, one will probably have a greater electron affinity than the other, which would explain bulk polarization of charge, however the same can't be said for a single substance. I guess that's why they are so puzzled. Now I am too. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
Hi Mark I beleive that there are two or three closely connected effects that can be seen within Jerrys EZ work. The core effect is that water close to a charged surface has a slightly different structure, one of the characteristics od this water is that it excludes stuff, small particles, dye, and even protons, which is why the water slightly further away is acidic. You are right that this region can be 'pumped' by IR and will grow as a result, but it will exist even in a system in total thermal equilibrium. We also know that water at a surface has a similar property, and I beleive that this is why you get charge separation associated with rain drops, and I think that this is why a recent paper appears to have shown that it is water adsorbed on a surface that is key to the generation of static electricity when you rub things together http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/adva/1/2/10.1063/1.3592522 My hunch that it is the water adsorbed onto the surface of the flour granuals that is key to understanding how the charge separation occurs in the flour experiment. Nigel On 11/03/2014 01:50, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Hi Nigel, Perhaps they've made progress in the past 20 years! I did my MS in the late 80s. I am familiar with Pollack's work, but didn't they determine that the energy for this Exclusion Zone (EZ) next to an interface was due to in-coming photons (i.e., light)??? Not sure if it was IR or UV. I vaguely remember something said about this because it would have very significant ramifications for biology (living systems). That EZ represents a 'battery' which is constantly in a state of charge so long as there is light... when they cut off the light in their test system, the EZ began to break down. Am I remembering this right? Thanks for chiming in! -Mark *From:*Nigel Dyer [mailto:l...@thedyers.org.uk] *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2014 4:41 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks I think there is a link. I think that one of the simplest interpretations of Jerry Pollacks work is that in certain circumstances water holds lightly to its protons, and will loose them leaving a region of negatively charged (but not alkalie) water. This can happen with water adsorbed on a surface, and you get static electricity. It can happen with suspended water droplets, and can result in negatively charged water droplets leaving charged protons behind, resulting in large potential differences in clouds. No reason to expect excess heat in any of this, just different ways of using work energy to create charge separation. Nigel On 10/03/2014 03:02, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Did my master's thesis under Dr. James Telford, atmospheric physicist, and expert in cloud microphysics. One of Telford's areas of interest was cloud electrification, which, at the time, was still not clearly explained. My thesis redesigned a novel airborne electric field measuring device which he and Dr. Peter Wagner had developed. One hypothesis about cloud electrification had to do with the collision of droplets inside the cloud causing a transfer of electrical charge, but that was only one of several hypotheses. When I read the article on the electrification of the powder, I immediately thought that the mechanism could be related... -Mark Iverson *From:*Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:53 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com mailto:janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
But conductive particles do manipulate hall effect and suppression so this could be an effect on the ambient trapped gases between the dynamic spacing of the grains.. would be very interest if the voltage forms in a vacuum. From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:18 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks I wonder if the fact that a different charge appears on the first separating grains which then biases the process to enhance that effect. I always seek out positive feedback mechanisms and this might be another. Something of this nature could make sense since the particles with the initial charge impacts other particles nearest to them greater than those at a distance. It would be interesting to determine what characteristics are common to the powders most active. Do they polarize easily? Is the dielectric constant the most important parameter? Of course conductive particles could not behave this way since the charges would leak off. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.commailto:mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks In reply to H Veeder's message of Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:16:06 -0400: Hi Harry, [snip] When grains made of long chain molecules rub against one another molecules can be broken (this should happen with some plastics too). When a molecule breaks, it can either form two neutral molecules, or a pair of ions. The latter constitute opposing charges on two separate grains (each gets part of the original molecule). Breaking into two charged ions may be more likely in molecules containing atoms such as Oxygen which tend to hold onto excess electrons, thus retaining a negative charge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Here is another story about the same research. Apparently they detected the same effect with glass particles. http://www.livescience.com/43686-earthquake-lights-possible-cause.html If ions are formed in the way you describe wouldn't these microscopic charge differences tend to cancel out at the macroscopic level? Harry Yes, I would think so. That's the flaw in my theory. When two different substances rub together, one will probably have a greater electron affinity than the other, which would explain bulk polarization of charge, however the same can't be said for a single substance. I guess that's why they are so puzzled. Now I am too. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
Now you have me wondering how an external magnetic field would influence the process, especially when using conductive particles. IIRC somewhere I read about moon dust floating above the surface under certain conditions. Could that be related to a similar process? Here I am not referring to magnetic effects. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 6:01 pm Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks But conductive particles do manipulate hall effect and suppression so this could be an effect on the ambient trapped gases between the dynamic spacing of the grains.. would be very interest if the voltage forms in a vacuum. From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:18 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks I wonder if the fact that a different charge appears on the first separating grains which then biases the process to enhance that effect. I always seek out positive feedback mechanisms and this might be another. Something of this nature could make sense since the particles with the initial charge impacts other particles nearest to them greater than those at a distance. It would be interesting to determine what characteristics are common to the powders most active. Do they polarize easily? Is the dielectric constant the most important parameter? Of course conductive particles could not behave this way since the charges would leak off. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks In reply to H Veeder's message of Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:16:06 -0400: Hi Harry, [snip] When grains made of long chain molecules rub against one another molecules can be broken (this should happen with some plastics too). When a molecule breaks, it can either form two neutral molecules, or a pair of ions. The latter constitute opposing charges on two separate grains (each gets part of the original molecule). Breaking into two charged ions may be more likely in molecules containing atoms such as Oxygen which tend to hold onto excess electrons, thus retaining a negative charge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Here is another story about the same research. Apparently they detected the same effect with glass particles. http://www.livescience.com/43686-earthquake-lights-possible-cause.html If ions are formed in the way you describe wouldn't these microscopic charge differences tend to cancel out at the macroscopic level? Harry Yes, I would think so. That's the flaw in my theory. When two different substances rub together, one will probably have a greater electron affinity than the other, which would explain bulk polarization of charge, however the same can't be said for a single substance. I guess that's why they are so puzzled. Now I am too. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
I wonder if the interaction between the flour and the container produces an voltage gradient at the surface which then provides the bias (symmetry breaking) that catalysies the creation of the formation of a macroscopic voltage gradient. I have mentioned Jerry Pollacks work in another reply on this thread. The action of a surface as an initial catylyst would mirror the way that significant potential gradiants (100s of mV not many volts however) can build up in water as a result of surface charge at the boundary. Nigel. On 13/03/2014 21:18, David Roberson wrote: I wonder if the fact that a different charge appears on the first separating grains which then biases the process to enhance that effect. I always seek out positive feedback mechanisms and this might be another. Something of this nature could make sense since the particles with the initial charge impacts other particles nearest to them greater than those at a distance. It would be interesting to determine what characteristics are common to the powders most active. Do they polarize easily? Is the dielectric constant the most important parameter? Of course conductive particles could not behave this way since the charges would leak off. Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks In reply to H Veeder's message of Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:16:06 -0400: Hi Harry, [snip] When grains made of long chain molecules rub against one another molecules can be broken (this should happen with some plastics too). When a molecule breaks, it can either form two neutral molecules, or a pair of ions. The latter constitute opposing charges on two separate grains (each gets part of the original molecule). Breaking into two charged ions may be more likely in molecules containing atoms such as Oxygen which tend to hold onto excess electrons, thus retaining a negative charge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Here is another story about the same research. Apparently they detected the same effect with glass particles. http://www.livescience.com/43686-earthquake-lights-possible-cause.html If ions are formed in the way you describe wouldn't these microscopic charge differences tend to cancel out at the macroscopic level? Harry Yes, I would think so. That's the flaw in my theory. When two different substances rub together, one will probably have a greater electron affinity than the other, which would explain bulk polarization of charge, however the same can't be said for a single substance. I guess that's why they are so puzzled. Now I am too. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 5:00 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to ChemE Stewart's message of Sat, 8 Mar 2014 17:48:13 -0500: Hi, That one is easy, it's flour power :) [snip] Normally a charge imbalance arises when different materials are rubbed together. (eg. amber and fur) Since all the grains are made from same the material a charge imbalance should not occur and no voltage should arise ...hence the mystery. harry When grains made of long chain molecules rub against one another molecules can be broken (this should happen with some plastics too). When a molecule breaks, it can either form two neutral molecules, or a pair of ions. The latter constitute opposing charges on two separate grains (each gets part of the original molecule). Breaking into two charged ions may be more likely in molecules containing atoms such as Oxygen which tend to hold onto excess electrons, thus retaining a negative charge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Here is another story about the same research. Apparently they detected the same effect with glass particles. http://www.livescience.com/43686-earthquake-lights-possible-cause.html If ions are formed in the way you describe wouldn't these microscopic charge differences tend to cancel out at the macroscopic level? Harry
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
Harry, Good point and it aligns with dynamic casimir effect and possibly a form of crack propagation which is normally in a metals but may apply to the exotic hydrogen states we are discussing. It could also fit into Mills description of self catalyzing hydrino states and Peng Chens paper about catalytic action only occurring at openings and defects in nanotubes..if the already suppressed hydrogen forms an isotropy at one scale and then individual members then fall into a smaller crack in the geometry does their vacancy break the isotropy and initiate a crack propagatin as surrounding gas rushes in to fill the hole.. if this was normal physics we would expect pressure equalization but suppression of longer vacuum wavelengths is not normal physics..and more hydrogen in means more hydrogen out but IMHO there is no spatial bias as the suppression is in a relativistic direction and the exiting hydrogen is pressure driven out equally around the channel of highest suppression where the hydrogen is entering much like a steam heat system which uses 1 pipe where steam goes thru the pipe but water condenses and falls back down the inner walls of the pipe to return to the boiler. Fran From: H Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 12:01 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks If this has any bearing on hydrogen loaded metal lattices then the equivalent of the flour crack might be a region which was formerly filled with hydrogen but which suddenly became devoid of hydrogen. In other words, instead of cracks in the lattice being important to excess heat, it might be the opening and closing of cracks in the distribution of hydrogen which contribute to excess heat. harry On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.commailto:janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.scienceinschool.org/2009/issue12/fireballs I judge this to be important of the LENR scientist as follows: These patterns proved that the fireballs were indeed full of particles with an average radius of about 25 nm - i.e. they are nanoparticles. The data also showed that the particles varied widely in size (very important) (as is typical of aerosols) and that there were about 109 particles per cubic centimetre. This makes the volume fraction of solid material (the ratio of volume of solid to total volume of space) in the fireball around 10-7 or 10-8. There was really only a very, very, small amount of matter in the cloud. The analysis also suggested that the particles had quite a rough surface: the scientists found the surface to have a fractal dimension of 2.6 (2.0 corresponds to a smooth 2D surface, On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.commailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.commailto:janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
In reply to ChemE Stewart's message of Sat, 8 Mar 2014 17:48:13 -0500: Hi, That one is easy, it's flour power :) [snip] Normally a charge imbalance arises when different materials are rubbed together. (eg. amber and fur) Since all the grains are made from same the material a charge imbalance should not occur and no voltage should arise ...hence the mystery. harry When grains made of long chain molecules rub against one another molecules can be broken (this should happen with some plastics too). When a molecule breaks, it can either form two neutral molecules, or a pair of ions. The latter constitute opposing charges on two separate grains (each gets part of the original molecule). Breaking into two charged ions may be more likely in molecules containing atoms such as Oxygen which tend to hold onto excess electrons, thus retaining a negative charge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
I think there is a link. I think that one of the simplest interpretations of Jerry Pollacks work is that in certain circumstances water holds lightly to its protons, and will loose them leaving a region of negatively charged (but not alkalie) water. This can happen with water adsorbed on a surface, and you get static electricity. It can happen with suspended water droplets, and can result in negatively charged water droplets leaving charged protons behind, resulting in large potential differences in clouds. No reason to expect excess heat in any of this, just different ways of using work energy to create charge separation. Nigel On 10/03/2014 03:02, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Did my master's thesis under Dr. James Telford, atmospheric physicist, and expert in cloud microphysics. One of Telford's areas of interest was cloud electrification, which, at the time, was still not clearly explained. My thesis redesigned a novel airborne electric field measuring device which he and Dr. Peter Wagner had developed. One hypothesis about cloud electrification had to do with the collision of droplets inside the cloud causing a transfer of electrical charge, but that was only one of several hypotheses. When I read the article on the electrification of the powder, I immediately thought that the mechanism could be related... -Mark Iverson *From:*Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:53 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com mailto:janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
RE: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
Hi Nigel, Perhaps they've made progress in the past 20 years! I did my MS in the late 80s. I am familiar with Pollack's work, but didn't they determine that the energy for this Exclusion Zone (EZ) next to an interface was due to in-coming photons (i.e., light)??? Not sure if it was IR or UV. I vaguely remember something said about this because it would have very significant ramifications for biology (living systems). That EZ represents a 'battery' which is constantly in a state of charge so long as there is light. when they cut off the light in their test system, the EZ began to break down. Am I remembering this right? Thanks for chiming in! -Mark From: Nigel Dyer [mailto:l...@thedyers.org.uk] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 4:41 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks I think there is a link. I think that one of the simplest interpretations of Jerry Pollacks work is that in certain circumstances water holds lightly to its protons, and will loose them leaving a region of negatively charged (but not alkalie) water. This can happen with water adsorbed on a surface, and you get static electricity. It can happen with suspended water droplets, and can result in negatively charged water droplets leaving charged protons behind, resulting in large potential differences in clouds. No reason to expect excess heat in any of this, just different ways of using work energy to create charge separation. Nigel On 10/03/2014 03:02, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Did my master's thesis under Dr. James Telford, atmospheric physicist, and expert in cloud microphysics. One of Telford's areas of interest was cloud electrification, which, at the time, was still not clearly explained. My thesis redesigned a novel airborne electric field measuring device which he and Dr. Peter Wagner had developed. One hypothesis about cloud electrification had to do with the collision of droplets inside the cloud causing a transfer of electrical charge, but that was only one of several hypotheses. When I read the article on the electrification of the powder, I immediately thought that the mechanism could be related. -Mark Iverson From: Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
RE: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
Did my master's thesis under Dr. James Telford, atmospheric physicist, and expert in cloud microphysics. One of Telford's areas of interest was cloud electrification, which, at the time, was still not clearly explained. My thesis redesigned a novel airborne electric field measuring device which he and Dr. Peter Wagner had developed. One hypothesis about cloud electrification had to do with the collision of droplets inside the cloud causing a transfer of electrical charge, but that was only one of several hypotheses. When I read the article on the electrification of the powder, I immediately thought that the mechanism could be related. -Mark Iverson From: Blaze Spinnaker [mailto:blazespinna...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
http://www.scienceinschool.org/2009/issue12/fireballs I judge this to be important of the LENR scientist as follows: These patterns proved that the fireballs were indeed full of particles with an average radius of about 25 nm - i.e. they are nanoparticles. The data also showed that* the particles varied widely in size (very important)* (as is typical of aerosols) and that there were about 109 particles per cubic centimetre. This makes the volume fraction of solid material (the ratio of volume of solid to total volume of space) in the fireball around 10-7 or 10 -8. There was really only a very, very, small amount of matter in the cloud. The analysis also suggested that the particles had quite a rough surface: the scientists found the surface to have a fractal dimension of 2.6 (2.0 corresponds to a smooth 2D surface, On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
If this has any bearing on hydrogen loaded metal lattices then the equivalent of the flour crack might be a region which was formerly filled with hydrogen but which suddenly became devoid of hydrogen. In other words, instead of cracks in the lattice being important to excess heat, it might be the opening and closing of cracks in the distribution of hydrogen which contribute to excess heat. harry On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.scienceinschool.org/2009/issue12/fireballs I judge this to be important of the LENR scientist as follows: These patterns proved that the fireballs were indeed full of particles with an average radius of about 25 nm - i.e. they are nanoparticles. The data also showed that* the particles varied widely in size (very important)* (as is typical of aerosols) and that there were about 109particles per cubic centimetre. This makes the volume fraction of solid material (the ratio of volume of solid to total volume of space) in the fireball around 10-7 or 10-8. There was really only a very, very, small amount of matter in the cloud. The analysis also suggested that the particles had quite a rough surface: the scientists found the surface to have a fractal dimension of 2.6 (2.0 corresponds to a smooth 2D surface, On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Axil, I don't get it. Why not optimize this for power generation? Find a way to generate cracks in a nano material with a small amount of electricity. Presumably there is an optimal material, shape, context in terms of gases present that causes this, and a better method than just 'shifting a Tupperware container' This sounds like a revolutionary news article where the main stream press and a good university (Rutgers) is coming to terms with the reality something is happening there. My only question, is that is voltage being reported. What was the excess thermal heat? Going to email them. On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
[Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now. quote from article Not every major earthquake is preceded by lightning. And not all clear-sky lightning is followed by earthquakes. Since the effect does not reliably reproduce itself the reports must be coming from people who are fooling themselves. ;-) Harry
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Sat, 8 Mar 2014 14:45:54 -0500: Hi, [snip] http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now. My take:- When two grains rub against one another, the distance between them is nm. If a slight charge imbalance develops due to friction, and the particles are insulators, they form a minute capacitor. If a crack in the powder forms, then the nm distance can increase to mm's. This deceases the capacitance enormously, and since the charge is fixed, the voltage rises accordingly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
In reply to H Veeder's message of Sat, 8 Mar 2014 15:09:56 -0500: Hi, [snip] On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now. quote from article Not every major earthquake is preceded by lightning. And not all clear-sky lightning is followed by earthquakes. High voltages won't develop where there is ground water containing some dissolved salts, as it will short out the high voltage. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:45 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Axil Axil's message of Sat, 8 Mar 2014 14:45:54 -0500: Hi, [snip] http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now. My take:- When two grains rub against one another, the distance between them is nm. If a slight charge imbalance develops due to friction, and the particles are insulators, they form a minute capacitor. If a crack in the powder forms, then the nm distance can increase to mm's. This deceases the capacitance enormously, and since the charge is fixed, the voltage rises accordingly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Normally a charge imbalance arises when different materials are rubbed together. (eg. amber and fur) Since all the grains are made from same the material a charge imbalance should not occur and no voltage should arise ...hence the mystery. harry
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
That one is easy, it's flour power On Saturday, March 8, 2014, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:45 PM, mix...@bigpond.comjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mix...@bigpond.com'); wrote: In reply to Axil Axil's message of Sat, 8 Mar 2014 14:45:54 -0500: Hi, [snip] http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now. My take:- When two grains rub against one another, the distance between them is nm. If a slight charge imbalance develops due to friction, and the particles are insulators, they form a minute capacitor. If a crack in the powder forms, then the nm distance can increase to mm's. This deceases the capacitance enormously, and since the charge is fixed, the voltage rises accordingly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Normally a charge imbalance arises when different materials are rubbed together. (eg. amber and fur) Since all the grains are made from same the material a charge imbalance should not occur and no voltage should arise ...hence the mystery. harry
Re: [Vo]:unknown mechanism generates voltage in the powder cracks
The important message therefore is this: LENR is passing the fractal test - we live in a fractal universe, where a pattern at one scale, repeats at larger and smaller scales. Without that symmetry, the universe would break down, and LENR does not let us down here Gordon Docherty http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/03/the-earthquake-lightning-mystery-lenr-connection/ On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26462348 LENR has been talking about this for some time now.
