RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[JonesBeene]

As I thought, this  is an application not a granted patent. The confusion 
arises because the inventor in the text of the Abstract calls it a Patent but a 
closer look shows that to be  a mischaracterization. There is a publication 
date for an Abstract as well as for a Patent.

The inventor does have one granted patent -  listed here (which Nigel will find 
interesting)
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/victor-m-villalobos

The legal status of this  disclosure could be of more than passing interest for 
other fields beside batteries – if a Patent is granted in the USA which 
specifies ZPE or the Casimir force as the source of power. AFAIK a claim for 
ZPE has not been granted before but Casimir is on firmer ground.

Logically it makes perfect sense that porous MLG (multi layer graphene) of an 
electrode would benefit from the Casimir if the porosity is of the correct 
dimensions  (the DCE or dynamical Casimir effect is essentially proved).

Although ZPE/ZPF and the Casimir force are probably different aspects of the 
same phenomena, the Casimir has been shown to be useful in recent  peer- 
reviewed papers. The attorney or patent agent for Villalobos is pushing the 
boundaries by adding more detail than is necessary - and it could be a costly 
gamble.

From: MJ

    It can be downloaded here: 

    http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat20180059704.pdf

    Mark Jordan


Nigel Dyer wrote:
It appears to be a real patent, finally published on March 1st
https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair
Nigel
JonesBeene wrote:
 
Strange that there is no patent number – only an application number but they 
call it a patent.
 
Justia has been know to screw up in the past and the Inventor: Victor M. 
Villalobos has claimed fantastical inventions before. I would love to see this 
proved with an actual experiment -  but as of now, serious doubts are raised. 
Of course, it is possible that Goodenough’s device relates to ZPE and this 
inventor could lay claim to it -- but will we ever know what is going on 
scinetifically, now that there are legal ramifications?
 
In the past USPTO would never grant a patent on anything to do with ZPE or cold 
fusion, but things change…
 
Anyway this is curious – shall we say…? 
 
 
From: Nigel Dyer
And there is this 'Zero Point Energy Magnetic Battery'
https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180059704
Nigel
JonesBeene wrote:
The recent announcement from University of Texas of a far more powerful 
solid-state "glass” battery technology from John Goodenough's lab has yet to 
sink in for most of the scientific community. There is evidence of a ten-fold 
increase in energy density between charges, so long as there are rest periods. 
IOW the device seems to recharge itself when given the time to do so.
The extreme interest in this technology is due to the reputation of Goodenough, 
the inventor the Li-ion battery in several versions including the one used by 
the Tesla automobile.  Goodenough is still active in the field at 94 years of 
age and that is another miracle in this unfolding story about a device that 
seems to defy physics. Curiously, this technology is reminiscent of EESTOR 
which is just down the road and still operating (under the radar) after 
disappointing dozens of VCs with millions of dollar spent and no product. Must 
be something in the water down there in the Lone Star state, even though both 
technologies are water free.
Similarly to that EESTOR fiasco, the reaction among the “experts” in the 
battery field strong skepticism tinged with jealousy. But Goodenough and his 
reputation makes things more interesting this time around. The growing 
conclusion from published early data is  that this battery breaks the laws of 
thermodynamics and that is the most significant aspect of story from our 
perspective… but in truth the gain could be coming from ambient heat and not 
the chemicals in device – which technically is more like a self-charging 
capacitor than a redox battery. This sounds a bit like “water memory” in that 
we have mobile molecules that want to return to a earlier state even after 
giving up energy and dropping to a more stable state.
Although lithium is one of the chemicals, sodium works as well or better so 
this is apparently not anything nuclear with respect to Li, or is it? The glass 
electrolyte apparently contains lithium, even in the case of  sodium as the  
charge carrier. Nor is dense hydrogen involved (unless it is trade secret). The 
one critical material required is an alkali from Column 1, which indicates that 
the manipulation of loosely bound electrons is the key. Many here on vortex 
might remember back in the previous century there were experiments and much 
talk about self-charging capacitors. Even data. This not a new claim and in 
fact there is little doubt that there are anomalies when you get to level of 
hundreds of Farads in a small area, which is due to some kind of paradigm shit 
… but the conservative opinion remains that these are 

Re: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[MJ]

    It can be dowloaded here:

    http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat20180059704.pdf

    Mark Jordan


On 17-Mar-18 05:03, Nigel Dyer wrote:


It appears to be a real patent, finally published on March 1st

https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair

Nigel


On 17/03/2018 01:53, JonesBeene wrote:


Strange that there is no patent number – only an application number 
but they call it a patent.


Justia has been know to screw up in the past and the Inventor: Victor 
M. Villalobos has claimed fantastical inventions before. I would love 
to see this proved with an actual experiment -  but as of now, 
serious doubts are raised. Of course, it is possible that 
Goodenough’s device relates to ZPE and this inventor could lay claim 
to it -- but will we ever know what is going on scinetifically, now 
that there are legal ramifications?


In the past USPTO would never grant a patent on anything to do with 
ZPE or cold fusion, but things change…


Anyway this is curious – shall we say…?

*From: *Nigel Dyer **

And there is this 'Zero Point Energy Magnetic Battery'

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180059704

Nigel

JonesBeene wrote:

The recent announcement from University of Texas of a far more
powerful solid-state "glass” battery technology from John
Goodenough's lab has yet to sink in for most of the scientific
community. There is evidence of a ten-fold increase in energy
density between charges, so long as there are rest periods. IOW
the device seems to recharge itself when given the time to do so.

The extreme interest in this technology is due to the reputation
of Goodenough, the inventor the Li-ion battery in several
versions including the one used by the Tesla automobile.
 Goodenough is still active in the field at 94 years of age and
that is another miracle in this unfolding story about a device
that seems to defy physics. Curiously, this technology is
reminiscent of EESTOR which is just down the road and still
operating (under the radar) after disappointing dozens of VCs
with millions of dollar spent and no product. Must be something
in the water down there in the Lone Star state, even though both
technologies are water free.

Similarly to that EESTOR fiasco, the reaction among the “experts”
in the battery field strong skepticism tinged with jealousy. But
Goodenough and his reputation makes things more interesting this
time around. The growing conclusion from published early data is
 that this battery breaks the laws of thermodynamics and that is
the most significant aspect of story from our perspective… but in
truth the gain could be coming from ambient heat and not the
chemicals in device – which technically is more like a
self-charging capacitor than a redox battery. This sounds a bit
like “water memory” in that we have mobile molecules that want to
return to a earlier state even after giving up energy and
dropping to a more stable state.

Although lithium is one of the chemicals, sodium works as well or
better so this is apparently not anything nuclear with respect to
Li, or is it? The glass electrolyte apparently contains lithium,
even in the case of  sodium as the  charge carrier. Nor is dense
hydrogen involved (unless it is trade secret). The one critical
material required is an alkali from Column 1, which indicates
that the manipulation of loosely bound electrons is the key. Many
here on vortex might remember back in the previous century there
were experiments and much talk about self-charging capacitors.
Even data. This not a new claim and in fact there is little doubt
that there are anomalies when you get to level of hundreds of
Farads in a small area, which is due to some kind of paradigm
shit … but the conservative opinion remains that these are
measurement problems and not thermodynamic violations.

Given everything that is unfolding, it is even likely that there
will be a fit between the extreme dielectrics of EESTOR and the
glass electrode of Goodenough. I would like to see a merger of
the two. Ultra dielectrics have not gone away.

Bottom line: Imagine the repercussions of  an electric car with
ten times less battery cost than the new Tesla… or even four time
less. The market for crude oil would crash, no?

That possibility will ruffle some feathers, especially in Texas
where even students are armed. If I were John Goodenough, I would
insist on adding some guards around the Texas Materials Institute
and more security. He has a few good years left, it would seem.

The only bad news from this technology is that there will not be
very much demand for LENR if you can produce a low cost battery
which recharges itself … unless of course the recharging is
itself a form of LENR. This is not ruled out.

Re: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[Nigel Dyer]

It appears to be a real patent visible if you go to 
https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair and search for


15/330,224

Nigel


On 17/03/2018 01:53, JonesBeene wrote:


Strange that there is no patent number – only an application number 
but they call it a patent.


Justia has been know to screw up in the past and the Inventor: Victor 
M. Villalobos has claimed fantastical inventions before. I would love 
to see this proved with an actual experiment -  but as of now, serious 
doubts are raised. Of course, it is possible that Goodenough’s device 
relates to ZPE and this inventor could lay claim to it -- but will we 
ever know what is going on scinetifically, now that there are legal 
ramifications?


In the past USPTO would never grant a patent on anything to do with 
ZPE or cold fusion, but things change…


Anyway this is curious – shall we say…?

*From: *Nigel Dyer **

And there is this 'Zero Point Energy Magnetic Battery'

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180059704

Nigel

JonesBeene wrote:

The recent announcement from University of Texas of a far more
powerful solid-state "glass” battery technology from John
Goodenough's lab has yet to sink in for most of the scientific
community. There is evidence of a ten-fold increase in energy
density between charges, so long as there are rest periods. IOW
the device seems to recharge itself when given the time to do so.

The extreme interest in this technology is due to the reputation
of Goodenough, the inventor the Li-ion battery in several versions
including the one used by the Tesla automobile.  Goodenough is
still active in the field at 94 years of age and that is another
miracle in this unfolding story about a device that seems to defy
physics. Curiously, this technology is reminiscent of EESTOR which
is just down the road and still operating (under the radar) after
disappointing dozens of VCs with millions of dollar spent and no
product. Must be something in the water down there in the Lone
Star state, even though both technologies are water free.

Similarly to that EESTOR fiasco, the reaction among the “experts”
in the battery field strong skepticism tinged with jealousy. But
Goodenough and his reputation makes things more interesting this
time around. The growing conclusion from published early data is
 that this battery breaks the laws of thermodynamics and that is
the most significant aspect of story from our perspective… but in
truth the gain could be coming from ambient heat and not the
chemicals in device – which technically is more like a
self-charging capacitor than a redox battery. This sounds a bit
like “water memory” in that we have mobile molecules that want to
return to a earlier state even after giving up energy and dropping
to a more stable state.

Although lithium is one of the chemicals, sodium works as well or
better so this is apparently not anything nuclear with respect to
Li, or is it? The glass electrolyte apparently contains lithium,
even in the case of  sodium as the  charge carrier. Nor is dense
hydrogen involved (unless it is trade secret). The one critical
material required is an alkali from Column 1, which indicates that
the manipulation of loosely bound electrons is the key. Many here
on vortex might remember back in the previous century there were
experiments and much talk about self-charging capacitors. Even
data. This not a new claim and in fact there is little doubt that
there are anomalies when you get to level of hundreds of Farads in
a small area, which is due to some kind of paradigm shit … but the
conservative opinion remains that these are measurement problems
and not thermodynamic violations.

Given everything that is unfolding, it is even likely that there
will be a fit between the extreme dielectrics of EESTOR and the
glass electrode of Goodenough. I would like to see a merger of the
two. Ultra dielectrics have not gone away.

Bottom line: Imagine the repercussions of  an electric car with
ten times less battery cost than the new Tesla… or even four time
less. The market for crude oil would crash, no?

That possibility will ruffle some feathers, especially in Texas
where even students are armed. If I were John Goodenough, I would
insist on adding some guards around the Texas Materials Institute
and more security. He has a few good years left, it would seem.

The only bad news from this technology is that there will not be
very much demand for LENR if you can produce a low cost battery
which recharges itself … unless of course the recharging is itself
a form of LENR. This is not ruled  out.

Re: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[Nigel Dyer]

It appears to be a real patent, finally published on March 1st

https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair

Nigel


On 17/03/2018 01:53, JonesBeene wrote:


Strange that there is no patent number – only an application number 
but they call it a patent.


Justia has been know to screw up in the past and the Inventor: Victor 
M. Villalobos has claimed fantastical inventions before. I would love 
to see this proved with an actual experiment -  but as of now, serious 
doubts are raised. Of course, it is possible that Goodenough’s device 
relates to ZPE and this inventor could lay claim to it -- but will we 
ever know what is going on scinetifically, now that there are legal 
ramifications?


In the past USPTO would never grant a patent on anything to do with 
ZPE or cold fusion, but things change…


Anyway this is curious – shall we say…?

*From: *Nigel Dyer **

And there is this 'Zero Point Energy Magnetic Battery'

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180059704

Nigel

JonesBeene wrote:

The recent announcement from University of Texas of a far more
powerful solid-state "glass” battery technology from John
Goodenough's lab has yet to sink in for most of the scientific
community. There is evidence of a ten-fold increase in energy
density between charges, so long as there are rest periods. IOW
the device seems to recharge itself when given the time to do so.

The extreme interest in this technology is due to the reputation
of Goodenough, the inventor the Li-ion battery in several versions
including the one used by the Tesla automobile.  Goodenough is
still active in the field at 94 years of age and that is another
miracle in this unfolding story about a device that seems to defy
physics. Curiously, this technology is reminiscent of EESTOR which
is just down the road and still operating (under the radar) after
disappointing dozens of VCs with millions of dollar spent and no
product. Must be something in the water down there in the Lone
Star state, even though both technologies are water free.

Similarly to that EESTOR fiasco, the reaction among the “experts”
in the battery field strong skepticism tinged with jealousy. But
Goodenough and his reputation makes things more interesting this
time around. The growing conclusion from published early data is
 that this battery breaks the laws of thermodynamics and that is
the most significant aspect of story from our perspective… but in
truth the gain could be coming from ambient heat and not the
chemicals in device – which technically is more like a
self-charging capacitor than a redox battery. This sounds a bit
like “water memory” in that we have mobile molecules that want to
return to a earlier state even after giving up energy and dropping
to a more stable state.

Although lithium is one of the chemicals, sodium works as well or
better so this is apparently not anything nuclear with respect to
Li, or is it? The glass electrolyte apparently contains lithium,
even in the case of  sodium as the  charge carrier. Nor is dense
hydrogen involved (unless it is trade secret). The one critical
material required is an alkali from Column 1, which indicates that
the manipulation of loosely bound electrons is the key. Many here
on vortex might remember back in the previous century there were
experiments and much talk about self-charging capacitors. Even
data. This not a new claim and in fact there is little doubt that
there are anomalies when you get to level of hundreds of Farads in
a small area, which is due to some kind of paradigm shit … but the
conservative opinion remains that these are measurement problems
and not thermodynamic violations.

Given everything that is unfolding, it is even likely that there
will be a fit between the extreme dielectrics of EESTOR and the
glass electrode of Goodenough. I would like to see a merger of the
two. Ultra dielectrics have not gone away.

Bottom line: Imagine the repercussions of  an electric car with
ten times less battery cost than the new Tesla… or even four time
less. The market for crude oil would crash, no?

That possibility will ruffle some feathers, especially in Texas
where even students are armed. If I were John Goodenough, I would
insist on adding some guards around the Texas Materials Institute
and more security. He has a few good years left, it would seem.

The only bad news from this technology is that there will not be
very much demand for LENR if you can produce a low cost battery
which recharges itself … unless of course the recharging is itself
a form of LENR. This is not ruled  out.

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[JonesBeene]

Strange that there is no patent number – only an application number but they 
call it a patent.

Justia has been know to screw up in the past and the Inventor: Victor M. 
Villalobos has claimed fantastical inventions before. I would love to see this 
proved with an actual experiment -  but as of now, serious doubts are raised. 
Of course, it is possible that Goodenough’s device relates to ZPE and this 
inventor could lay claim to it -- but will we ever know what is going on 
scinetifically, now that there are legal ramifications?

In the past USPTO would never grant a patent on anything to do with ZPE or cold 
fusion, but things change…

Anyway this is curious – shall we say…? 




From: Nigel Dyer
And there is this 'Zero Point Energy Magnetic Battery'
https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180059704
Nigel
JonesBeene wrote:
The recent announcement from University of Texas of a far more powerful 
solid-state "glass” battery technology from John Goodenough's lab has yet to 
sink in for most of the scientific community. There is evidence of a ten-fold 
increase in energy density between charges, so long as there are rest periods. 
IOW the device seems to recharge itself when given the time to do so.
The extreme interest in this technology is due to the reputation of Goodenough, 
the inventor the Li-ion battery in several versions including the one used by 
the Tesla automobile.  Goodenough is still active in the field at 94 years of 
age and that is another miracle in this unfolding story about a device that 
seems to defy physics. Curiously, this technology is reminiscent of EESTOR 
which is just down the road and still operating (under the radar) after 
disappointing dozens of VCs with millions of dollar spent and no product. Must 
be something in the water down there in the Lone Star state, even though both 
technologies are water free.
Similarly to that EESTOR fiasco, the reaction among the “experts” in the 
battery field strong skepticism tinged with jealousy. But Goodenough and his 
reputation makes things more interesting this time around. The growing 
conclusion from published early data is  that this battery breaks the laws of 
thermodynamics and that is the most significant aspect of story from our 
perspective… but in truth the gain could be coming from ambient heat and not 
the chemicals in device – which technically is more like a self-charging 
capacitor than a redox battery. This sounds a bit like “water memory” in that 
we have mobile molecules that want to return to a earlier state even after 
giving up energy and dropping to a more stable state.
Although lithium is one of the chemicals, sodium works as well or better so 
this is apparently not anything nuclear with respect to Li, or is it? The glass 
electrolyte apparently contains lithium, even in the case of  sodium as the  
charge carrier. Nor is dense hydrogen involved (unless it is trade secret). The 
one critical material required is an alkali from Column 1, which indicates that 
the manipulation of loosely bound electrons is the key. Many here on vortex 
might remember back in the previous century there were experiments and much 
talk about self-charging capacitors. Even data. This not a new claim and in 
fact there is little doubt that there are anomalies when you get to level of 
hundreds of Farads in a small area, which is due to some kind of paradigm shit 
… but the conservative opinion remains that these are measurement problems and 
not thermodynamic violations.
Given everything that is unfolding, it is even likely that there will be a fit 
between the extreme dielectrics of EESTOR and the glass electrode of 
Goodenough. I would like to see a merger of the two. Ultra dielectrics have not 
gone away.
Bottom line: Imagine the repercussions of  an electric car with ten times less 
battery cost than the new Tesla… or even four time less. The market for crude 
oil would crash, no?
That possibility will ruffle some feathers, especially in Texas where even 
students are armed. If I were John Goodenough, I would insist on adding some 
guards around the Texas Materials Institute and more security. He has a few 
good years left, it would seem. 
The only bad news from this technology is that there will not be very much 
demand for LENR if you can produce a low cost battery which recharges itself … 
unless of course the recharging is itself a form of LENR. This is not ruled  
out.
 
 

Re: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[Nigel Dyer]

And there is this 'Zero Point Energy Magnetic Battery'

https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180059704

Nigel

On 15/03/2018 13:53, JonesBeene wrote:


The recent announcement from University of Texas of a far more 
powerful solid-state "glass” battery technology from John Goodenough's 
lab has yet to sink in for most of the scientific community. There is 
evidence of a ten-fold increase in energy density between charges, so 
long as there are rest periods. IOW the device seems to recharge 
itself when given the time to do so.


The extreme interest in this technology is due to the reputation of 
Goodenough, the inventor the Li-ion battery in several versions 
including the one used by the Tesla automobile.  Goodenough is still 
active in the field at 94 years of age and that is another miracle in 
this unfolding story about a device that seems to defy physics. 
Curiously, this technology is reminiscent of EESTOR which is just down 
the road and still operating (under the radar) after disappointing 
dozens of VCs with millions of dollar spent and no product. Must be 
something in the water down there in the Lone Star state, even though 
both technologies are water free.


Similarly to that EESTOR fiasco, the reaction among the “experts” in 
the battery field strong skepticism tinged with jealousy. But 
Goodenough and his reputation makes things more interesting this time 
around. The growing conclusion from published early data is  that this 
battery breaks the laws of thermodynamics and that is the most 
significant aspect of story from our perspective… but in truth the 
gain could be coming from ambient heat and not the chemicals in device 
– which technically is more like a self-charging capacitor than a 
redox battery. This sounds a bit like “water memory” in that we have 
mobile molecules that want to return to a earlier state even after 
giving up energy and dropping to a more stable state.


Although lithium is one of the chemicals, sodium works as well or 
better so this is apparently not anything nuclear with respect to Li, 
or is it? The glass electrolyte apparently contains lithium, even in 
the case of  sodium as the  charge carrier. Nor is dense hydrogen 
involved (unless it is trade secret). The one critical material 
required is an alkali from Column 1, which indicates that the 
manipulation of loosely bound electrons is the key. Many here on 
vortex might remember back in the previous century there were 
experiments and much talk about self-charging capacitors. Even data. 
This not a new claim and in fact there is little doubt that there are 
anomalies when you get to level of hundreds of Farads in a small area, 
which is due to some kind of paradigm shit … but the conservative 
opinion remains that these are measurement problems and not 
thermodynamic violations.


Given everything that is unfolding, it is even likely that there will 
be a fit between the extreme dielectrics of EESTOR and the glass 
electrode of Goodenough. I would like to see a merger of the two. 
Ultra dielectrics have not gone away.


Bottom line: Imagine the repercussions of  an electric car with ten 
times less battery cost than the new Tesla… or even four time less. 
The market for crude oil would crash, no?


That possibility will ruffle some feathers, especially in Texas where 
even students are armed. If I were John Goodenough, I would insist on 
adding some guards around the Texas Materials Institute and more 
security. He has a few good years left, it would seem.


The only bad news from this technology is that there will not be very 
much demand for LENR if you can produce a low cost battery which 
recharges itself … unless of course the recharging is itself a form of 
LENR. This is not ruled  out.

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[Chris Zell]

I think the critical issue is not a Maxwell’s Demon definition per se but 
rather is it a violation of thermodynamics, as the Demon is thought to be?

From: JonesBeene <jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 3:59 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

Maxwell’s demon is usually interpreted to imply some kind of sorting  mechanism 
which discriminates among particles in order to produce at least two 
populations which vary in a desired property.  The property does not have to be 
heat – here is one based on photonics.
https://phys.org/news/2016-02-physicists-photonic-maxwell-demon.html

There have been many systems which are proved to sort and separate on a small 
or quantum scale. The Ranque Hilsch vortex tube is one which can operate at 
high power levels and gave this forum its name. If the mechanism doesn’t sort 
and separate - then it probably is not a “Demon”.



From: Chris Zell<mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com>

If you gain from ambient heat, is that a Maxwell’s Demon sort of violation?

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones, Axil, Jed, Adrian, Chris, etal.,

I have found the recent items (old and new) identified here on Vortex during 
the last week very informative.

Vortex is like a self charging battery IMHO.

THANKS TO ALL.

Bob Cook



From: JonesBeene 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 6:53:47 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?



The recent announcement from University of Texas of a far more powerful 
solid-state "glass” battery technology from John Goodenough's lab has yet to 
sink in for most of the scientific community. There is evidence of a ten-fold 
increase in energy density between charges, so long as there are rest periods. 
IOW the device seems to recharge itself when given the time to do so.

The extreme interest in this technology is due to the reputation of Goodenough, 
the inventor the Li-ion battery in several versions including the one used by 
the Tesla automobile.  Goodenough is still active in the field at 94 years of 
age and that is another miracle in this unfolding story about a device that 
seems to defy physics. Curiously, this technology is reminiscent of EESTOR 
which is just down the road and still operating (under the radar) after 
disappointing dozens of VCs with millions of dollar spent and no product. Must 
be something in the water down there in the Lone Star state, even though both 
technologies are water free.

Similarly to that EESTOR fiasco, the reaction among the “experts” in the 
battery field strong skepticism tinged with jealousy. But Goodenough and his 
reputation makes things more interesting this time around. The growing 
conclusion from published early data is  that this battery breaks the laws of 
thermodynamics and that is the most significant aspect of story from our 
perspective… but in truth the gain could be coming from ambient heat and not 
the chemicals in device – which technically is more like a self-charging 
capacitor than a redox battery. This sounds a bit like “water memory” in that 
we have mobile molecules that want to return to a earlier state even after 
giving up energy and dropping to a more stable state.

Although lithium is one of the chemicals, sodium works as well or better so 
this is apparently not anything nuclear with respect to Li, or is it? The glass 
electrolyte apparently contains lithium, even in the case of  sodium as the  
charge carrier. Nor is dense hydrogen involved (unless it is trade secret). The 
one critical material required is an alkali from Column 1, which indicates that 
the manipulation of loosely bound electrons is the key. Many here on vortex 
might remember back in the previous century there were experiments and much 
talk about self-charging capacitors. Even data. This not a new claim and in 
fact there is little doubt that there are anomalies when you get to level of 
hundreds of Farads in a small area, which is due to some kind of paradigm shit 
… but the conservative opinion remains that these are measurement problems and 
not thermodynamic violations.

Given everything that is unfolding, it is even likely that there will be a fit 
between the extreme dielectrics of EESTOR and the glass electrode of 
Goodenough. I would like to see a merger of the two. Ultra dielectrics have not 
gone away.

Bottom line: Imagine the repercussions of  an electric car with ten times less 
battery cost than the new Tesla… or even four time less. The market for crude 
oil would crash, no?

That possibility will ruffle some feathers, especially in Texas where even 
students are armed. If I were John Goodenough, I would insist on adding some 
guards around the Texas Materials Institute and more security. He has a few 
good years left, it would seem.

The only bad news from this technology is that there will not be very much 
demand for LENR if you can produce a low cost battery which recharges itself … 
unless of course the recharging is itself a form of LENR. This is not ruled  
out.

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[JonesBeene]

Maxwell’s demon is usually interpreted to imply some kind of sorting  mechanism 
which discriminates among particles in order to produce at least two 
populations which vary in a desired property.  The property does not have to be 
heat – here is one based on photonics.
https://phys.org/news/2016-02-physicists-photonic-maxwell-demon.html

There have been many systems which are proved to sort and separate on a small 
or quantum scale. The Ranque Hilsch vortex tube is one which can operate at 
high power levels and gave this forum its name. If the mechanism doesn’t sort 
and separate - then it probably is not a “Demon”.



From: Chris Zell

If you gain from ambient heat, is that a Maxwell’s Demon sort of violation?

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[Chris Zell]

If you gain from ambient heat, is that a Maxwell’s Demon sort of violation?

RE: [Vo]:LENR in a battery?

[JonesBeene]

Is the self-charging battery a new type of pico-electret storage device ? 
Consider 3 devices as a progression over time:  the electret, the EESTOR and 
the glass battery of Goodenough.

In the late 1930s the Electret was invented by Dr. Eguchi, a Japanese 
physicist. He sandwiched a decent dielectric which was Carnauba wax  between 
two metal plates. When charged with high voltage and cycled with heat and cold, 
a polarized electrostatic charge becomes embedded in the wax. Some current will 
flow when the connection is closed but  this is a very low current and very  
high voltage device.  It was usable as a radio battery during WWll and 
electrets are still in production, mostly for use in microphones. Voltage can 
be very high – 10,000 v. and current in nanowatts but fully self-recharging. 
The active dimensions are microns.

The EESTOR capacitor looks something like a lower voltage electret where an 
extreme dielectric keeps charge separated at about 10 nanometers and allows 
much higher current. Voltage is 400 or so and current  has gone up by 6 or more 
orders of magnitude. In both cases, the electret or the EESTOR, a depleted cell 
will recharge to a fair fraction of its initial capacity. In so doing, the 
device will cool and the gain in charge is perfectly accounted for by the heat 
transfer. In both cases, the energy stored is a function of surface area of the 
dielectric. EESTOR uses nanoparticle of barium titanate. However, in a failure 
mode, the results can be catastrophic.

In going from nano down to subnano surface area, it can be imagined that the 
glass battery exploits even lower voltage (2-3 v.)  and much higher current due 
to extreme surface area – which is actually close to  atomic level surface area 
– square kilometers per square cm. IOW a small cluster of atoms of an alkali 
such as sodium acts like a low voltage electret and can lend electrons to do 
work in what appears to be a very high current device compared to the above 
options. There is no redox reaction per se but there is a chemical force acting 
like redox at a few eV which will recharge and return the electron from ambient 
heat over time.

In short, we can look at the glass battery as a new kind of picometer level 
electret. It appears to be overunity but is not since it is recharged from 
ambient heat. There is no thermodynamic law violation.

Sure, this explanation is oversimplified, but it exposes the major weakness of 
the glass battery which  is the time required for self-charge. What the 
inventors of the glass battery have done is to ameliorate this weakness by 
lowering the self-charge time by adding a quasi-redox avenue, which is called 
graphite intercalation. That technology  is not new either and is used in 
lithium batteries today - but the novelty of the entire device lies in 
combining a number of well-known features into something which works. 

The main issue for the coming months  is “can it be manufactured cheaply?”

This is exciting. In fact, it is reminiscent of the excitement surrounding 
EESTOR many years ago which also worked but could not be manufactured at all in 
quantity. It was essentially an explosive device masquerading as a battery. 

The glass battery may be different in the risk category, but we are not there 
yet. They are trying to mass produce a device that operates at picometer 
levels. 

Even for those who have held out hope for LENR as the savior of society, this 
is most exciting… with the added bonus is that when you remove heat from 
ambient, you also lower global warming. A double bonus.