Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Il giorno 13/nov/2011 02:23, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com ha scritto: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: A. Final note There is a big difference between your efforts on http://www.lenr-canr.org and the e-cat site. The first is a service to the community, the other is for selling goods. What is wrong with selling goods?!? Stop it there! Why do you jump to the wrong conclusion?? I do manage a business so I am a pure capitalist I risk every day of my life my own capital. I bet on my business. Do you?! I do things for free too: it is an indirect way of supporting the business by letting others try the quality of work and to expand the network. Read well what I write. Free is not the same as gratis. Free is about freedom, like in freedom of speech. About being fair in business ad give credit to others' ideas when credit is due. And yes I do sell free things, customers can do whatever they please with them, with one caveat, they must respect others freedom when they sell derived works. Did I say I do not like Rossi jobs and is not his way of doing business as a whole? indeed I think he is very good at it in many aspects. Not the website. That website will make him loose potential customers. Back to the point... The difference between a free informative website and a business website is about selling. On a business if you damage potential sales, you are doing a poor job with the website. Rossi's site does not look like, and it is not a business site, it is very amateurish at presentation and at technical level, it does not speak business language, not that of the $1M or more type of potential customer. I hope someone tells this to Rossi ASAP. mic Do you have some ivory-tower objection to capitalism? You don't like to see people making a living? Do you think Rossi is obligated to give away secrets worth a trillion dollars? If you think people should give away their property, please send all of your money to me, at 1954 Airport Road. I cannot understand why people criticize Rossi for keeping this secret when it is the U.S. Patent Office that refuses to grant patents for cold fusion I cannot understand this attitude that Rossi should do whatever you say, or Mary Yugo says, even though what you want him to do would ruin his business. I wish he would do as I say only because I think it would be bring him more money, and it would bring cold fusion to the world more quickly. This is his discovery, his intellectual property, and his business. He can run his business any way he wants to. He has no obligation to tell us anything, or to do any public tests. If he wants to use obsolete web page software, that is his decision. We can criticize these decisions, or ridicule them, but people here act as if Rossi has a moral obligation to follow our orders. He does not. No businessman does. Thank goodness for that. Capitalism would not work if they did. Without capitalism we would all live in poverty. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: The difference between a free informative website and a business website is about selling. On a business if you damage potential sales, you are doing a poor job with the website. Rossi's site does not look like, and it is not a business site, it is very amateurish at presentation and at technical level, it does not speak business language, not that of the $1M or more type of potential customer. I agree. I got the mistaken impression from the previous message that you find something wrong with Rossi's goal of making money. Many people do. I hope someone tells this to Rossi ASAP. Many people have told him. He does not care what people think. As I said, that is both a strength and a weakness. The one thing Rossi does accept is technical advice from experts. Not about his experimental technique, unfortunately, but some experts have told me he does listen when it comes to engineering. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
http://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/Products/1MW_Plant/index.html NOTICE: November 13, 2011; 9:00 am MST Andrea Rossi has removed his official designation from this site until he has time to make certain corrections. Only those pages with the designation: Approved by Andrea Rossi should be considered official. [ I haven't found any so far ... ] Has a specification able for the 1 MW. Thermal Output Power1 MWElectrical Input Power Peak 200 kW Electrical input Power Average 167 kW COP 6 Power Ranges20 kW-1 MW Modules 52 Power per Module20kWWater Pump brand Water Pump Pressure 4 Bar Water Pump Capacity 1500 kg/hr Water Pump Ranges 30-1500 kg/hr Water Input Temperature 4-85 C Water Output Temperature85-120 CControl Box Brand Natl. Instr.Controlling SoftwareLeonardoOperation and Maintenance Cost $0.5/MWhr Fuel Cost $0.1/MWhr Recharge Cost $10/module Recharge Frequency 2/year Warranty2 years Estimated Lifespan 20 yearsPrice 2M EurosDimension 2.4 x 2.6 x 6m ( I'm using my laptop via the zimra web browser ... I don't know if that table's going to come out OK )
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Technical specifications Thermal Output Power 1 MW Electrical Input Power Peak 200 kW Electrical input Power Average 167 kW COP 6 Power Ranges 20 kW-1 MW Modules 52 Power per Module 20kW Water Pump brand Water Pump Pressure4 Bar Water Pump Capacity 1500 kg/hr Water Pump Ranges 30-1500 kg/hr Water Input Temperature 4-85 C Water Output Temperature 85-120 C Control Box Brand Natl. Instr. Controlling Software Leonardo Operation and Maintenance Cost $0.5/MWhr Fuel Cost $0.1/MWhr Recharge Cost $10/module Recharge Frequency 2/year Warranty 2 years Estimated Lifespan 20 years Price 2M Euros Dimension 2.4 x 2.6 x 6m ( I'm using my laptop via the zimra web browser ... I don't know if that table's going to come out OK )
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On 12 Nov 2011, at 01:39, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing wrong with old programmers and old engineers. Cut by first code on a 8008 system that I designed and built. Had a whole 256 bytes of ram. Put the program in with switches. Now that is old code. Do you still have it? I'm sure that although I've still got the physical artefacts of old programmes I wrote when I was a kid, the patterns are long gone. Joe -- Dr Joe Karthauser
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, 2011-11-11 at 18:12 -0800, Mary Yugo wrote: Someone at Ecatnews.com pointed out that the web site is so bad that someone left in this name: Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA) That is a throw back to Rossi's board of directors for his silly blog he pretends is a peer reviewed journal. Except that the guy apparently doesn't exist. At least that's what I've read on the ultrareliable internet. Anyone know Professor Kelly personally at U of NH? Different spelling perhaps? A George E. Kelley, (class of 1957), is listed here as having died: http://unhmagazine.unh.edu/w09/obituaries.html A George F. Kelley is listed here in the class of 1943: http://www.foundation.unh.edu/honor-roll-donors https://www.alumni.unh.edu/keep/reunion/reunion_reg.html http://extension.unh.edu/CommDev/Docs/THEGILMANTONCIVICPROFILE.pdf http://www.foundation.unh.edu/granite-cornerstone-society Craig Manchester, NH
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
http://www.blongerbros.com/gang/rag.asp Vivid details on extremely cunning, well organized, intricate street scam to catch wealthy tourists one by one within a web of fake stock market speculation in the 1920's... an education for me...
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Hello! Welcome to AptyeryxOz *Ever wondered what life would be like if electricity cost next to nothing to generate and the resulting products from the actual generation (The ashes) was essentially household copper.* *What if the component materials used to create the heat required to generate the electricity were in the top ten most common elements in the Universe.* Well, that's where we will be if recent work done in Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) pans out as expected. The work I'm writing about is that of *Mr. Andrea Rossi*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_(entrepreneur) and *Prof. Sergio Focardi* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergio_Focardi both of Bologna, in Italy. Read more http://www.apteryxoz.com/AboutUs.aspx http://www.apteryxoz.com/ On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.blongerbros.com/gang/rag.asp Vivid details on extremely cunning, well organized, intricate street scam to catch wealthy tourists one by one within a web of fake stock market speculation in the 1920's... an education for me...
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Like everything I build it was a work in progress and was continually evolving. The switch panel went when I got an old teletype. Was so excited that I had a printer and real keyboard. The system code was then about 1 k. The last work I did on that system involved designing in a video terminal as my human interface with the main system of 64k of dynamic ram using 1 x 16k chips and a Z80 processor. Thought the string transfer op on the Z80 was fantastic. Even had a programmable character generator so I could do graphics. I wrote my own version of CPM and actually sold a few systems to friends. Back then 64k of ram, a 4 MHz Z80 and a 5 MB hard drive was all that was needed to run everything a small business needed, word processing (WordStar), spreadsheet (VisiCalc I think) and a data base program for accounting. Then Bill Gates came along and changed everything. AG On 11/13/2011 5:40 AM, Dr Joe Karthauser wrote: On 12 Nov 2011, at 01:39, Aussie Guy E-Cataussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Nothing wrong with old programmers and old engineers. Cut by first code on a 8008 system that I designed and built. Had a whole 256 bytes of ram. Put the program in with switches. Now that is old code. Do you still have it? I'm sure that although I've still got the physical artefacts of old programmes I wrote when I was a kid, the patterns are long gone. Joe
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Am 12.11.2011 08:12, schrieb Mary Yugo: Yikes! Defamation would be: Rossi is a scammer Whats if we say Rossi is a master scammer ;-) A personal opinion and perfectly legal: Rossi may be a scammer (also he may not be one). Freedom of speech on that one, I think. Really -- I had this issue come up before and I checked with an attorney who specializes in it. There's no defamation in suggestion a possibility. And the first sentence is only defamation if Rossi is not a scammer and can prove it in court. I'm not sure he could! Im sure he can. Consider the case of Mike Brady. They couldnt prove at court that the motors dont work. He had several witnesses, but no working examples. He refused to tell the names of customers and said these will be murdered, he must protect them. There where a scientist who presented theories how these motors might work and an engineer and inventor who said they have seen them working. The engineer (Adolf Schneider) has bought a motor himself and this did not work, but Schneider said he understands well why it doesnt work, and he is sure Brady will soon be able to solve the problem. Schneider is tightly connected with the free energy scene. Rossi visited Adolf Schneider in switzerland, probably it was Sterling Allan who made the contact. There is a photo at PESWiki. Im sure Rossi could learn a lot during this visit. He was not convicted because the motors did not work. He was convicted because he could not show a factory, because he had no stock parts. So he was unable to deliver but he has sold motors, took the money. He pretended this is in a secret location in south africa. He pretended he cannot build and demonstrate the motor because some unobtainable shielding material was not available. This is why Brady finally was convicted at court in munich. Rossi will deliver. And should the e-cat fail to work, then this are technical problems. There are so many scientist that can witness the demonstrations. He can always say it worked for sure, but sorry there is some secret and proprietary inobtanium needed for the catalyst and due to sabotage this vanished and I cannot get it now. He'd have to show to the court's satisfaction that the E-cat was real and worked as advertised! Would he do that? He sure hasn't so far. As said, Rossi has enough witnesses. He does not need to prove it works at court, at least not in germany. If he has good advocates and good contracts then he can keep his customers silent Peter
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote: This is why Brady finally was convicted at court in munich. The Perendev motor operates in repulsion mode. Magnets in repulsion degrade over time; so, assuming it did work as the videos imply, it would not last. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Jed, Il giorno 12/nov/2011 02:26, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com ha scritto: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Digging in to the html code, the headers tell it all about quality... made with FrontPage software that was discontinued in 2003! I do not see why that matters. For LENR-CANR.org I use Borland Delphi 4, discontinued in 1999. I sometimes tweak the HTML *by hand*. With Programmers Text Editor. For shame! You got a problem with retro-looking HTML? You got a problem with old programs, and old programmers? I was going to complain that these screens look too modern. Too busy. I like Google's main page. Here you are making wrong guesses on my ideas about: 1. Software development tools. 2. Quality on the Web. The following is a reply to the above erroneous assumptions on your side. 1. Software development tools I have nothing against old programmers (I am one of those by now) or old (good) programs. As a matter of fact if i often have to select programmers for projects I am directly involved in. I always ask what kind of tools they use. One key point is that they understand the difference between an IDE and a text editor, between handmade code and automated code generation. I am deeply skeptic about automatic code generation with the aid of a graphical tools, myself being a die hard command line guy. I often say that using a GUI vs CLI is like cavemen paintings vs the greatest invention of mankind ever: writing. Of course it is an exaggeration, but if you look at the question in term of expressiveness, exactness and reproducibility nothing can beat writing. The death of things like UML (Unified Modeling Language) tell a lot about that. Dealing with real problems using many programming languages creates oftentimes repeated patterns. You have three practical approaches that do not require repeating the typing : 1. Use a GUI that generates the boiler plate code for you. 2. Have a tool to automatically generate the code. 3. Choose a language that comes with the pattern solved. Me being a lazy kind of person that likes typing short, expressive and clean code, I naturally prefer option 3. But the others can do equally good with patterns. A pattern in programming resembles the notion of a concept. Think to the concept of aeroplane/airplane we can do with analogy to the above: 1. A drawing or a picture: http://carseatblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/airplane.jpg 2. Have a *code* *preprocessor* writing A powered fixed-wing aircraft that is propelled forward by thrust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust from a jet engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_engine or propeller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller_%28aircraft%29...** where needed. 3. Write the instruction airplane. Suppose that those tool developed by businesses that all ended just before the advent of the 20th century and now is 1910. Since at the time they where written there was some confusion about airplanes , the definitions are slightly outdated (wrong for 1910( and you generate code without knowing it. Well in your code the airplane will always *crash*! This is what happens with FrontPage. Just to be clear Frontpage falls under type 1 Your situation is *completely* different. You do not use any automated code generation. You have to write by *hand* A powered fixed-wing aircraft that is propelled forward by thrusthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrustfrom a jet engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_engine or propellerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller_%28aircraft%29... ** every where you need to express an airplane. That is what you do with delphi and it is perfectly fair. If you keep yourself updated your code at the time of writing is *correct*. You are not automating anything and *you could use any other text editor* to get the same result. Just to give you an idea of how much I am against old stuff look at what I use to do my daily work: - Unix or Linux - Emacs - LaTex Take a look around to find how young are those toys (the youngest is Linux: 20 years old, but not is good old cousin Unix). But there is a main difference with FrontPage: *they are and they will** constantly updated and improved*. I am not going to explain why and how because this is getting too long already, I just state that it is all related to the fact that it is *free software* i.e. driven by the user (person or business) need and not by sale needs. Dead proprietary development software is good if you are the only one that is going to use the resulting program. On the contrary on the Internet it is good policy to adhere to standards, because anyone could come to visit you. Think of someone speaking Shakespeare English on a international business confcall, they other mute him off. Also keep an eye on possible malicious attacks must be kept. That is why keeping the code up to date is important. 2. Quality on the Web *De gustibus non disputandum* I would like you to explain how
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: A. Final note There is a big difference between your efforts on http://www.lenr-canr.organd the e-cat site. The first is a service to the community, the other is for selling goods. What is wrong with selling goods?!? Do you have some ivory-tower objection to capitalism? You don't like to see people making a living? Do you think Rossi is obligated to give away secrets worth a trillion dollars? If you think people should give away their property, please send all of your money to me, at 1954 Airport Road. I cannot understand why people criticize Rossi for keeping this secret when it is the U.S. Patent Office that refuses to grant patents for cold fusion I cannot understand this attitude that Rossi should do whatever *you* say, or Mary Yugo says, even though what you want him to do would ruin his business. I wish he would do as I say only because I think it would be bring him more money, and it would bring cold fusion to the world more quickly. This is *his* discovery, *his* intellectual property, and *his* business. He can run his business any way he wants to. He has no obligation to tell us anything, or to do any public tests. If he wants to use obsolete web page software, that is his decision. We can criticize these decisions, or ridicule them, but people here act as if Rossi has a moral obligation to follow our orders. He does not. No businessman does. Thank goodness for that. Capitalism would not work if they did. Without capitalism we would all live in poverty. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Peter Heckert's post is interesting! But I still don't think Rossi can even get a law suit heard in the United States if I were to call him a scammer which of course I have not done. I said he *may* be scamming. That isn't really arguable (and also it doesn't say much). What is wrong with selling goods?!? Of course nothing. But there is a lot wrong with misleading and deceptive advertising. Also with saying you sold something when you didn't. Do you have some ivory-tower objection to capitalism? You don't like to see people making a living? Do you think Rossi is obligated to give away secrets worth a trillion dollars? If you think people should give away their property, please send all of your money to me, at 1954 Airport Road. I cannot understand why people criticize Rossi for keeping this secret when it is the U.S. Patent Office that refuses to grant patents for cold fusion I cannot understand this attitude that Rossi should do whatever *you* say, or Mary Yugo says, even though what you want him to do would ruin his business. I wish he would do as I say only because I think it would be bring him more money, and it would bring cold fusion to the world more quickly So how does selling a bundle of 50+ sample reactors help him keep a secret? How does doing this 10 -12 times in the coming year help? Doesn't he know that sooner than later, one of the devices he gleefully sells will be disassembled and reverse engineered if they work (a gigantic if)? Actually, the existing messy leaking kludge he showed on October 28 that worked a lame few hours coupled to a huge generator could only be sold for reverse engineering. I can't think of any other reason anyone else would buy one! And of course nobody would buy one unless Rossi has shown them a heck of a lot better evidence that it works than I have ever seen or read about. .This is *his* discovery, *his* intellectual property, and *his*business. He can run his business any way he wants to. He has no obligation to tell us anything, or to do any public tests. If he wants to use obsolete web page software, that is his decision. We can criticize these decisions, or ridicule them, but people here act as if Rossi has a moral obligation to follow our orders. He does not. No businessman does. Thank goodness for that. Capitalism would not work if they did. Without capitalism we would all live in poverty. Agreed. For all the good it will do in helping to determine whether Rossi's machine is real or a scam.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Of course nothing. But there is a lot wrong with misleading and deceptive advertising. Rossi has not done any advertising as far as I know. Perhaps you are talking about Steorn. Also with saying you sold something when you didn't. Do you have any reason to think that Rossi has not sold the reactor, as he claims? Do you have any reason to think the Fioravanti is not an HVAC engineer, as he claims? Everyone who has talked to him is convinced that he is. Please do not make unfounded accusations here. I cannot understand this attitude that Rossi should do whatever *you* say, or Mary Yugo says, even though what you want him to do would ruin his business. I wish he would do as I say only because I think it would be bring him more money, and it would bring cold fusion to the world more quickly So how does selling a bundle of 50+ sample reactors help him keep a secret? How does doing this 10 -12 times in the coming year help? You seem to have missed my point. Let me repeat myself: These things are for Rossi to decide. Not us. This is *his* business, and his alone. If I were him, not having patent protection, I would not know what to do. No matter who you sell to it could end badly. If you don't sell at all, it ends badly. He is between a rock and a hard place. Capitalism would not work if they did. Without capitalism we would all live in poverty. Agreed. For all the good it will do in helping to determine whether Rossi's machine is real or a scam. First principle physics has already proved it is real. You have not come up with any reasons to question that proof. You are scrambling to find some reason to ignore the laws of physics instead. You want us to look at Rossi business strategy, or his personality, or the order form, or the web site software or aesthetics . . . ANYTHING to change the subject and not face facts. It seems likely to me that the mechanisms of the free market will also determine the truth about Rossi's machine. If several machines are sold and customers are clamoring for them, that will prove they are real. But we don't need the free market. We already know that a 30 L vessel of water cannot stay at boiling temperatures for 4 hours, and we already know there cannot be any hidden wires or stage magic tricks. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Of course nothing. But there is a lot wrong with misleading and deceptive advertising. Rossi has not done any advertising as far as I know. Perhaps you are talking about Steorn. Well, Rossi's site is advertising and to me, much of it seems misleading and deceptive, as much by what it omits as by what it says. Also with saying you sold something when you didn't. Do you have any reason to think that Rossi has not sold the reactor, as he claims? Do you have any reason to think the Fioravanti is not an HVAC engineer, as he claims? Everyone who has talked to him is convinced that he is. Please do not make unfounded accusations here. If everyone is to take everyone else at their word for what they say they sold and for what they claim they can do, the world will not be a better place! Nobody has reason to think Rossi sold anything other than what Rossi said. And Rossi constantly lies and misstates things and says bizarre things as you will be the first to admit and have said. I don't know anything about Fioravanti. I am less concerned that he may not be an HVAC engineer than about the possibility that he works for Rossi and will say whatever Rossi wants him to. That's a concern. I admit I have no evidence. However the method for conducting the tests -- running the big generator and not letting any of the invited reporters and scientists see anything of probative value supports my suspicions. There is no valid reason I know of for not allowing at least representatives of the press and scientists see and verify the operating parameters of the megawatt plant while running. And if Rossi lies about a lot of things, he could well be lying about the sale. I cannot understand this attitude that Rossi should do whatever *you* say, or Mary Yugo says, even though what you want him to do would ruin his business. I wish he would do as I say only because I think it would be bring him more money, and it would bring cold fusion to the world more quickly So how does selling a bundle of 50+ sample reactors help him keep a secret? How does doing this 10 -12 times in the coming year help? You seem to have missed my point. Let me repeat myself: These things are for Rossi to decide. Not us. This is *his* business, and his alone. Well then maybe we should all shut up about what Rossi says, does and has. I was giving an opinion the same as you and many other people do. I think I know how a legitimate scientist and businessman who has what Rossi claims to have would most likely behave. He doesn't behave that way in any manner, shape or form. That makes me suspicious. That's the summary of what I've said. What part do you object to other than that we have different opinions about it? If I were him, not having patent protection, I would not know what to do. No matter who you sell to it could end badly. If you don't sell at all, it ends badly. He is between a rock and a hard place. I don't know a lot about patents but patent specialists have told Rossi publicly that if he disclosed more about the invention, he could get patent protection that would be effective. If he chooses not to do that, his invention will be copied if it works, regardless of claims of self-destruct devices and other similar nonsense. The lesser of the evils is disclosure. Capitalism would not work if they did. Without capitalism we would all live in poverty. Agreed. For all the good it will do in helping to determine whether Rossi's machine is real or a scam. First principle physics has already proved it is real. You have not come up with any reasons to question that proof. You are scrambling to find some reason to ignore the laws of physics instead. You want us to look at Rossi business strategy, or his personality, or the order form, or the web site software or aesthetics . . . ANYTHING to change the subject and not face facts. We don't differ on laws of physics but on how to interpret the experiments and results obtained with Rossi's machines. That Rossi has used first principle physics to prove it's real is your opinion and you're entitled to it but that doesn't make it fact and many people disagree. The peripheral features you noted that I attend to enhance the possibility of a scam in my view. The main reasons I doubt Rossi have already been stated many times and I won't bore people again by mentioning them. It seems likely to me that the mechanisms of the free market will also determine the truth about Rossi's machine. If several machines are sold and customers are clamoring for them, that will prove they are real. But we don't need the free market. We already know that a 30 L vessel of water cannot stay at boiling temperatures for 4 hours, and we already know there cannot be any hidden wires or stage magic tricks. I don't agree and I have
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On 2011-11-12 00:39, Jouni Valkonen wrote: For me this looks like a bad joke. It is not nice to do a fan page that superficially looks like authentic page. It turns out it's really an official website: * * * http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page Leonardo-ECat.com Official Website Launched - Finally, Andrea Rossi has an official website to represent his breakthrough cold fusion E-Cat product, to introduce and orient new customers, businessmen, media representatives, and other curious parties; answering frequently asked questions. Brought to you in association with PES Network. (Leonardo-ECat.com; 11.11.11) * * * Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.leonardo-ecat.com Gee. I looked all over for an order form, a price list and a PayPal Logo and darn... no luck. Oh and: Page posted by Sterling Allan http://sterlingdallan.com/, PES Network, Inc. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:PES_Network,_Inc. What a surprise.See for example: http://pesn.com/2011/10/09/9501930_AmericanAntiGravity_Rebooted--Again/ Look at that link to see the list of things this guy supports, promotes and even raises funding for. Like I said, with friends like Craig Brown, Sterling Allan and Hank Mills, Rossi needs no enemies.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Auch! sorry Akira you already noticed! 2011/11/12 Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com: Look down on the pages: Page by Hank Mills and Sterling Allan, PES Network, Inc. Just like PESN: an old fashioned, '90s looking site... mic 2011/11/12 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com: Major kewl!
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: For me this looks like a bad joke. It is not nice to do a fan page that superficially looks like authentic page. It does look like a bad joke but look at this from there: Welcome to the homepage of Andrea Rossi, and his patented cold fusion technology, the E-Cat (Energy Catalyzer) a revolutionary, game-changing technology ready to provide for tomorrow's energy needs. So maybe Rossi was ill-advised enough to approve it? I am sure someone will ask him on his (misnamed) blog soon. We can probably read about it tomorrow morning, US time.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Major kewl! Yah. Looks like a camp stove.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
I find this very interesting. Where is there a scam here? http://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/Products/1MW_Plant/index.html *Purchase Terms* * Price: 2,000 Euros per kilowatt. * 1 MW plant. Only under approved circumstances will smaller sizes be considered, but no less than 100 kW. * Full payment into escrow account. * License contract written up specific to customer. * Escrow funds released to Leonardo Corp upon satisfactory completion of plant test per customer-Leonardo agreement. Escrow funds return to customer if test results are not satisfactory. For more details and information, please send an email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com mailto:i...@leonardocorp1996.com AG On 11/12/2011 10:10 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: Major kewl!
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Uhho... this is going to cause a lot of trouble for sure. Wait until the universities hear about it! Now I really do wonder if Rossi ever saw it before it went live. Ah well... we'll know soon. Leonardo Corp Personnel Ing. Andrea A. Rossihttp://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/About/Personnel/Andrea_A_Rossi/index.html, Inventor Prof. Sergio Focardihttp://www.leonardo-ecat.com/fp/About/Personnel/Sergio_Focardi/index.html(INFN – University of Bologna – Italy) Prof. Giuseppe Levi (INFN – University of Bologna – Italy) Prof. Stremmenos Christos (Athen University – Greece) Richard P. Noceti, Ph. D. , richard.noc...@lt.netl.doe.gov Prof. Alberto Carnera (INFM – University of Padova – Italy) Prof. Pierluca Rossi (University of Bologna – Italy) Prof. Luciana Malferrari (University of Bologna – Italy) Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA) Sterling D. Allan http://sterlingdallan.com/, Advisor, webmaster Hank Mills http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Hank_Mills, Web content
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: I find this very interesting. Where is there a scam here? Oh ok. Let's order one. How do I do that exactly? (medium to small please, one each)
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Digging in to the html code, the headers tell it all about quality... made with FrontPage software that was discontinued in 2003! head meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=windows-1252 meta name=GENERATOR content=Microsoft FrontPage 4.0 meta name=ProgId content=FrontPage.Editor.Document titleUpcoming Events/title meta name=Microsoft Border content=tlrb, default Almost validates as HTML 3.2, just one error, see link below http://goo.gl/14JP2 mic 2011/11/12 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Major kewl! Yah. Looks like a camp stove.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Site says 100 kw min. Rossi gets nothing until the unit meets specifications. AG On 11/12/2011 10:23 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I find this very interesting. Where is there a scam here? Oh ok. Let's order one. How do I do that exactly? (medium to small please, one each)
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: Site says 100 kw min. Rossi gets nothing until the unit meets specifications. Right. Steorn said something like that too. They never delivered and they have kept and spent €20 million of investor money along the merry way. They had lots of parties, I heard.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
The money goes into a escrow account. You understand what that means? AG On 11/12/2011 10:34 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Site says 100 kw min. Rossi gets nothing until the unit meets specifications. Right. Steorn said something like that too. They never delivered and they have kept and spent €20 millionof investor money along the merry way. They had lots of parties, I heard.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Major kewl! Yah. Looks like a camp stove. It actually looks like a Coleman camp stove had sex with a Honda generator! T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Mary I can 100% assure you that if I was ordering a plant from Rossi and my money was in a escrow account, Rossi would not get 1 dollar of that money until the plant fully passed the pre agreed performance conditions. I would expect every other purchaser would be the same. I would suggest this openly posted sales conditions really takes the wind out of your sails. Under these E-Cat plant sales conditions, there can be no fraud or scam. EUR 200k is not that much money to get a taste of what the E-Cat can do. I applaud Rossi for openly declaring the payment conditions. Well done sir. AG On 11/12/2011 10:34 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Site says 100 kw min. Rossi gets nothing until the unit meets specifications. Right. Steorn said something like that too. They never delivered and they have kept and spent €20 millionof investor money along the merry way. They had lots of parties, I heard.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
The design is dated, as is the software used to create it: Microsoft Frontpage 4.0 (circa 2000). The domain appears to be hosted on pair.com, which is a step up from stayhosted ... I suspect that Mr. Rossi is following the advice of friends, and is not providing the best possible venue for his ideas, products, hopes, and dreams. Then again, perhaps this is part of the grand plan to deflect attention and discourage people from taking his business seriously. In any case, there are now more tea leaves to read. Domain information: Registration Service Provided By: Namecheap.com Contact: supp...@namecheap.com Visit: http://namecheap.com Domain name: leonardo-ecat.com Registrant Contact: Leonardo Corporation Andrea Rossi 116 South River Road Bedford, NH 03110 US Administrative Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Technical Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Status: Locked Name Servers: ns371.pair.com ns7.ns0.com Creation date: 11 Nov 2011 17:12:00 Expiration date: 11 Nov 2012 09:12:00
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? I suggest the sales and payment conditions has just totally taken the wind out of the sails of all the scam / fraud group. AG On 11/12/2011 11:09 AM, Sean True wrote: The design is dated, as is the software used to create it: Microsoft Frontpage 4.0 (circa 2000). The domain appears to be hosted on pair.com, which is a step up from stayhosted ... I suspect that Mr. Rossi is following the advice of friends, and is not providing the best possible venue for his ideas, products, hopes, and dreams. Then again, perhaps this is part of the grand plan to deflect attention and discourage people from taking his business seriously. In any case, there are now more tea leaves to read. Domain information: Registration Service Provided By: Namecheap.com Contact: supp...@namecheap.com Visit: http://namecheap.com Domain name: leonardo-ecat.com Registrant Contact: Leonardo Corporation Andrea Rossi 116 South River Road Bedford, NH 03110 US Administrative Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Technical Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Status: Locked Name Servers: ns371.pair.com ns7.ns0.com Creation date: 11 Nov 2011 17:12:00 Expiration date: 11 Nov 2012 09:12:00
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Digging in to the html code, the headers tell it all about quality... made with FrontPage software that was discontinued in 2003! I do not see why that matters. For LENR-CANR.org I use Borland Delphi 4, discontinued in 1999. I sometimes tweak the HTML *by hand*. With Programmers Text Editor. For shame! You got a problem with retro-looking HTML? You got a problem with old programs, and old programmers? I was going to complain that these screens look too modern. Too busy. I like Google's main page. Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Yah. Looks like a camp stove. It actually looks like a Coleman camp stove had sex with a Honda generator! I love it! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Oct / Nov sure has been interesting: 06 Oct - Single E-Cat module demo 28 Oct - 1 MW E-Cat plant demo with first sales announcement 10 Nov - NI announcement 12 Nov - E-Cat web site up with sales / payment conditions that destroys those that call scam / fraud This E-Cat powered train has left the station and is gathering speed. Next announcement is? AG On 11/12/2011 11:36 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? I suggest the sales and payment conditions has just totally taken the wind out of the sails of all the scam / fraud group. AG On 11/12/2011 11:09 AM, Sean True wrote: The design is dated, as is the software used to create it: Microsoft Frontpage 4.0 (circa 2000). The domain appears to be hosted on pair.com, which is a step up from stayhosted ... I suspect that Mr. Rossi is following the advice of friends, and is not providing the best possible venue for his ideas, products, hopes, and dreams. Then again, perhaps this is part of the grand plan to deflect attention and discourage people from taking his business seriously. In any case, there are now more tea leaves to read. Domain information: Registration Service Provided By: Namecheap.com Contact: supp...@namecheap.com Visit: http://namecheap.com Domain name: leonardo-ecat.com Registrant Contact: Leonardo Corporation Andrea Rossi 116 South River Road Bedford, NH 03110 US Administrative Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Technical Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlin...@pureenergysystems.com) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Status: Locked Name Servers: ns371.pair.com ns7.ns0.com Creation date: 11 Nov 2011 17:12:00 Expiration date: 11 Nov 2012 09:12:00
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Nothing wrong with old programmers and old engineers. Cut by first code on a 8008 system that I designed and built. Had a whole 256 bytes of ram. Put the program in with switches. Now that is old code. AG On 11/12/2011 11:56 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com mailto:michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Digging in to the html code, the headers tell it all about quality... made with FrontPage software that was discontinued in 2003! I do not see why that matters. For LENR-CANR.org I use Borland Delphi 4, discontinued in 1999. I sometimes tweak the HTML _by hand_. With Programmers Text Editor. For shame! You got a problem with retro-looking HTML? You got a problem with old programs, and old programmers? I was going to complain that these screens look too modern. Too busy. I like Google's main page. Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Yah. Looks like a camp stove. It actually looks like a Coleman camp stove had sex with a Honda generator! I love it! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Kullander will talk about the ecat on 11/23. 2011/11/11 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Oct / Nov sure has been interesting: 06 Oct - Single E-Cat module demo 28 Oct - 1 MW E-Cat plant demo with first sales announcement 10 Nov - NI announcement 12 Nov - E-Cat web site up with sales / payment conditions that destroys those that call scam / fraud This E-Cat powered train has left the station and is gathering speed. Next announcement is? AG On 11/12/2011 11:36 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? I suggest the sales and payment conditions has just totally taken the wind out of the sails of all the scam / fraud group. AG On 11/12/2011 11:09 AM, Sean True wrote: The design is dated, as is the software used to create it: Microsoft Frontpage 4.0 (circa 2000). The domain appears to be hosted on pair.com, which is a step up from stayhosted ... I suspect that Mr. Rossi is following the advice of friends, and is not providing the best possible venue for his ideas, products, hopes, and dreams. Then again, perhaps this is part of the grand plan to deflect attention and discourage people from taking his business seriously. In any case, there are now more tea leaves to read. Domain information: Registration Service Provided By: Namecheap.com Contact: supp...@namecheap.com Visit: http://namecheap.com Domain name: leonardo-ecat.com Registrant Contact: Leonardo Corporation Andrea Rossi 116 South River Road Bedford, NH 03110 US Administrative Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlingda@pureenergysystems.**comsterlin...@pureenergysystems.com ) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Technical Contact: PES Network, Inc Sterling Allan (sterlingda@pureenergysystems.**comsterlin...@pureenergysystems.com ) +1.8014071292 PO Box 429 Mount Pleasant, UT 84647-0429 US Status: Locked Name Servers: ns371.pair.com ns7.ns0.com Creation date: 11 Nov 2011 17:12:00 Expiration date: 11 Nov 2012 09:12:00
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On 11/12/2011 11:36 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? Because it indicates that he is moving at high velocity, with an almost reckless disregard of the kind of evaluation that most people would apply to his business. This actually underlines the case against it being a scam. The site is purely (and barely) functional. No wasted time on marketing or public relations. Just the facts, Ma'am.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Hey! I still use FP 2003 too! I don't have time to upgrade. Higher priorities. Regards Svj Orionworks.com Sent from my iPad
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: It actually looks like a Coleman camp stove had sex with a Honda generator! I love it! What is really exciting is the anxiety among the s(c)eptics. It is far more entertaining than any reality show on the boobtube! T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? I agree, very little. But it's unlikely that a prosperous and sophisticated company would do it that way, that's all. I suggest the sales and payment conditions has just totally taken the wind out of the sails of all the scam / fraud group. Oh, Gee! Not at all. A common form of scam is to take money somewhere near the start from secret investors who sign an NDA so they can't talk or write on public forums. The NDA is usually extremely broad in scope and if someone hints at breaking it, all sorts of threats of law suits begin. Meanwhile, the perpetrators buy an ad or two or do a web page or other introduction, have news releases and press conferences, and announce a new company that promises all sorts of wonders. They usually have some sort of photo op and maybe a carefully contrived demonstration that believers can sop up but which really proves nothing. The next step is to announce that a lot of the proceeds will go to charity. Blogs sprout up praising the device and fantasizing what will happen in the future when it is widely adopted. Skeptics are scorned and insulted and eventually banned from enthusiast sites.Then, the scammer says they won't be taking investment money now. Maybe in the future they'll go public but they're doing this on their own. The secret investors aren't mentioned and they can't say a peep due to their NDA. They also don't want to jeopardize success and future profits. Some are simply too embarrassed to speak. Customers are announced but somehow they're never produced. Test are declined if they're too definitive. Hey, they'd reveal too many trade secrets. Patents? Sometimes it's no, sometimes it's yes, it just couldn't matter less (from Gigi, 1958, IMDB). Along the way, more secret investors may be picked up. The investment amount can get really large -- Steorn so far has been $21 million Euros. The money is spent or squirreled away. It can go on for years with no product, no proper testing and no customers who can verify that the product is real. That's the quick version. Is that what Rossi is? In my mind, he fits the script but he's more daring about demos than most --but who knows? The more time goes by between the customer announcement and some credible souls vouching for a bona fide sale and of course a proper test -- the longer it takes, the more likely it's a scam. Nine months and counting now. You think people are too sophisticated to give money to scammers? You must read different news articles than I do.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Mary you don't get it do you? Rossi is not selling to the public. Rossi's customers are engineering firms that I will assure you will not part with 1 dollar unless the E-Cat plant meets their min agreed conditions. Spin this any way you try but your time here claiming scam / fraud is over. Rossi's payment conditions and his selected customer base has seen to that. AG On 11/12/2011 12:25 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? I agree, very little. But it's unlikely that a prosperous and sophisticated company would do it that way, that's all. I suggest the sales and payment conditions has just totally taken the wind out of the sails of all the scam / fraud group. Oh, Gee! Not at all. A common form of scam is to take money somewhere near the start from secret investors who sign an NDA so they can't talk or write on public forums. The NDA is usually extremely broad in scope and if someone hints at breaking it, all sorts of threats of law suits begin. Meanwhile, the perpetrators buy an ad or two or do a web page or other introduction, have news releases and press conferences, and announce a new company that promises all sorts of wonders. They usually have some sort of photo op and maybe a carefully contrived demonstration that believers can sop up but which really proves nothing. The next step is to announce that a lot of the proceeds will go to charity. Blogs sprout up praising the device and fantasizing what will happen in the future when it is widely adopted. Skeptics are scorned and insulted and eventually banned from enthusiast sites.Then, the scammer says they won't be taking investment money now. Maybe in the future they'll go public but they're doing this on their own. The secret investors aren't mentioned and they can't say a peep due to their NDA. They also don't want to jeopardize success and future profits. Some are simply too embarrassed to speak. Customers are announced but somehow they're never produced. Test are declined if they're too definitive. Hey, they'd reveal too many trade secrets. Patents? Sometimes it's no, sometimes it's yes, it just couldn't matter less (from Gigi, 1958, IMDB). Along the way, more secret investors may be picked up. The investment amount can get really large -- Steorn so far has been $21 million Euros. The money is spent or squirreled away. It can go on for years with no product, no proper testing and no customers who can verify that the product is real. That's the quick version. Is that what Rossi is? In my mind, he fits the script but he's more daring about demos than most --but who knows? The more time goes by between the customer announcement and some credible souls vouching for a bona fide sale and of course a proper test -- the longer it takes, the more likely it's a scam. Nine months and counting now. You think people are too sophisticated to give money to scammers? You must read different news articles than I do.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: It actually looks like a Coleman camp stove had sex with a Honda generator! I love it! What is really exciting is the anxiety among the s(c)eptics. It is far more entertaining than any reality show on the boobtube! NI has lots of equipment in both the ITER and the NIF. To see them even acknowledge that they have spoken with the likes of EFA srl is delightful. Today has been declared National Corduroy Day since 11/11/11/ looks so much like corduroy. Soon we will see, for the second time today, 11:11:11 on 11/11/11. How many boils will need lancing? :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Spin this any way you try but your time here claiming scam / fraud is over. Sure. When you can name one customer with some reputation for credibility and they prove they've done a proper test -- but not before, OK? Someone at Ecatnews.com pointed out that the web site is so bad that someone left in this name: Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA) That is a throw back to Rossi's board of directors for his silly blog he pretends is a peer reviewed journal. Except that the guy apparently doesn't exist. At least that's what I've read on the ultrareliable internet. Anyone know Professor Kelly personally at U of NH?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
You mean this: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=svsl=svtl=enu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oru.se%2FKalendarium%2FStartsida-Kalendarium%2Foffentliga-forelasningar%2FOffentliga-forelasningar-Morgondagens-karnkraft---blir-den-kall-eller-varm-%2F Should be interesting but I expect more news to surface before then. ;) AG On 11/12/2011 12:10 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Kullander will talk about the ecat on 11/23.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: It actually looks like a Coleman camp stove had sex with a Honda generator! I love it! What is really exciting is the anxiety among the s(c)eptics. It is far more entertaining than any reality show on the boobtube! NI has lots of equipment in both the ITER and the NIF. To see them even acknowledge that they have spoken with the likes of EFA srl is delightful. Today has been declared National Corduroy Day since 11/11/11/ looks so much like corduroy. Soon we will see, for the second time today, 11:11:11 on 11/11/11. How many boils will need lancing? It is so funny that few, if any, even understand a single word that I speak about. It is so very satisfying to be thought to be bonkers. Pity that the Vortex Archive does not retain messages beyond 6 mo.s. But google does! T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
For us Aussies, yesterday was Remembrance Day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day Whole country stopped for 1 minute to remember fallen mates. :( AG On 11/12/2011 12:39 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: ... Today has been declared National Corduroy Day since 11/11/11/ looks so much like corduroy. Soon we will see, for the second time today, 11:11:11 on 11/11/11. How many boils will need lancing? :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On 2011-11-12 02:26, Jed Rothwell wrote: [...] You got a problem with retro-looking HTML? You got a problem with old programs, and old programmers? The problem is not only that it's retro-looking (it actually is, however, since this is definitely not an intentional thing), but mainly that it's a website made in static html pages which is a very poor solution when there's a large amount of sections possibly subject to frequent changes (not only in content, but also in layout). By using a modern CMS (Wordpress would have done the job perfectly. It's free, by the way) not only the website would have most probably immediately looked better and been better structured, but it would also have freed the webmasters from tweaking pages individually with an HTML editor, offered better managing tools, more robustness and ease of maintenance, etc. Putting technical matters and lack of awareness of modern web technologies aside anyway, there also are a lot of puzzling things in the actual content such as the repeated use of the cold fusion term which Rossi avoided all along, the Leonardo employees list that might warrant Rossi a phone call or two by the U of Bologna, links to Yahoo groups or external sites that look very unprofessional and amateurish (couldn't they add their own discussion board? Or better, allow commenting on each page - although that would probably need a modern CMS again), the most probably unauthorized use of copyrighted photos, lack of fact checking in several passages, etc. Really, this is an embarassement of a website. Rossi will eaten alive by hardcore skeptics and the mainstream media tomorrow. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
If Steorn was operating a scam, why have they not been charged? Harry On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? I agree, very little. But it's unlikely that a prosperous and sophisticated company would do it that way, that's all. I suggest the sales and payment conditions has just totally taken the wind out of the sails of all the scam / fraud group. Oh, Gee! Not at all. A common form of scam is to take money somewhere near the start from secret investors who sign an NDA so they can't talk or write on public forums. The NDA is usually extremely broad in scope and if someone hints at breaking it, all sorts of threats of law suits begin. Meanwhile, the perpetrators buy an ad or two or do a web page or other introduction, have news releases and press conferences, and announce a new company that promises all sorts of wonders. They usually have some sort of photo op and maybe a carefully contrived demonstration that believers can sop up but which really proves nothing. The next step is to announce that a lot of the proceeds will go to charity. Blogs sprout up praising the device and fantasizing what will happen in the future when it is widely adopted. Skeptics are scorned and insulted and eventually banned from enthusiast sites.Then, the scammer says they won't be taking investment money now. Maybe in the future they'll go public but they're doing this on their own. The secret investors aren't mentioned and they can't say a peep due to their NDA. They also don't want to jeopardize success and future profits. Some are simply too embarrassed to speak. Customers are announced but somehow they're never produced. Test are declined if they're too definitive. Hey, they'd reveal too many trade secrets. Patents? Sometimes it's no, sometimes it's yes, it just couldn't matter less (from Gigi, 1958, IMDB). Along the way, more secret investors may be picked up. The investment amount can get really large -- Steorn so far has been $21 million Euros. The money is spent or squirreled away. It can go on for years with no product, no proper testing and no customers who can verify that the product is real. That's the quick version. Is that what Rossi is? In my mind, he fits the script but he's more daring about demos than most --but who knows? The more time goes by between the customer announcement and some credible souls vouching for a bona fide sale and of course a proper test -- the longer it takes, the more likely it's a scam. Nine months and counting now. You think people are too sophisticated to give money to scammers? You must read different news articles than I do.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: For us Aussies, yesterday was Remembrance Day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day Whole country stopped for 1 minute to remember fallen mates. :( Australia has always been an ally in the fight for freedom. God bless your fallen who have died for my and your freedom. It's Veteran's day here in the States in honor of those who gave everything so that our young can Occupy Whatever. I doubt they will ever know. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Please tell me how Rossi can scam a engineering firm E-Cat sales customer with his payment terms? He can't. Everything else you say has no real meaning or value. Rossi knows the meat in the sandwich is the meeting the claimed COP 6 performance. No one really cares who is or who is not on the board. Engineers say show me the performance and how you will support the warranty over the products life. As a engineer, my only real concern now is reliability and risk assessment. MTBF and MTTR stuff. AG On 11/12/2011 12:42 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: Spin this any way you try but your time here claiming scam / fraud is over. Sure. When you can name one customer with some reputation for credibility and they prove they've done a proper test -- but not before, OK? Someone at Ecatnews.com pointed out that the web site is so bad that someone left in this name: Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA) That is a throw back to Rossi's board of directors for his silly blog he pretends is a peer reviewed journal. Except that the guy apparently doesn't exist. At least that's what I've read on the ultrareliable internet. Anyone know Professor Kelly personally at U of NH?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: If Steorn was operating a scam, why have they not been charged? I don't know. If you look at their history, it's clearly a scam. They also have contempt for their marks because they joke about them tacitly. Perhaps they operate just within Irish law. It could be a rampant scam and still not inherently illegal if they properly warned people ahead that the proposition was high risk. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the internet. Maybe one can comment. I am intrigued by the translation from Kullander. I wonder what he will say. For me, this: An intensive discussion on the net have questioned the experiment in Bologna mainly by it can not be explained by the established nuclear physics theory. is important but it's not the main issue. I've already said what the important questions are. I hope Kullander speaks to them. I'm sure he's already had plenty of input from plenty of people!
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: Please tell me how Rossi can scam a engineering firm Perhaps I wasn't clear. I suggested he may have scammed investors, not an engineering firm. Was some part of that in need of further elaboration?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
You have suggested Rossi may have scammed investors? Bold statement there Mary. Care to disclose your proof as otherwise you may have just committed Defamation and I'm sure the Vortex administrators will not wish to be involved in hosting defamatory comments. A bit of advise Mary, if I may, is that unless you have the money to defend a defamation action, I would suggest you be a bit more careful about making statement you apparently have no real proof of and are, I suspect, just making up to support your apparent spin efforts to discredit Rossi and the E-Cat. I should also point out that you can not hide behind a internet alias. The courts do have the ability to peal back the internet layers and find out who you really are. AG On 11/12/2011 1:06 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Please tell me how Rossi can scam a engineering firm Perhaps I wasn't clear. I suggested he may have scammed investors, not an engineering firm. Was some part of that in need of further elaboration?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Rossi does not have investors and doesn't need them right now. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com You have suggested Rossi may have scammed investors? Bold statement there Mary. Care to disclose your proof as otherwise you may have just committed Defamation and I'm sure the Vortex administrators will not wish to be involved in hosting defamatory comments. A bit of advise Mary, if I may, is that unless you have the money to defend a defamation action, I would suggest you be a bit more careful about making statement you apparently have no real proof of and are, I suspect, just making up to support your apparent spin efforts to discredit Rossi and the E-Cat. I should also point out that you can not hide behind a internet alias. The courts do have the ability to peal back the internet layers and find out who you really are. AG On 11/12/2011 1:06 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**comaussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Please tell me how Rossi can scam a engineering firm Perhaps I wasn't clear. I suggested he may have scammed investors, not an engineering firm. Was some part of that in need of further elaboration?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
You have suggested Rossi may have scammed investors? Bold statement there Mary. Care to disclose your proof as otherwise you may have just committed Defamation and I'm sure the Vortex administrators will not wish to be involved in hosting defamatory comments. A bit of advise Mary, if I may, is that unless you have the money to defend a defamation action, I would suggest you be a bit more careful about making statement you apparently have no real proof of and are, I suspect, just making up to support your apparent spin efforts to discredit Rossi and the E-Cat. I should also point out that you can not hide behind a internet alias. The courts do have the ability to peal back the internet layers and find out who you really are. Wow. I'm terrified. Well, I'm going to be in good company in court. FYI, suggesting the possibility of fraud is not defamation, especially when supported by a careful explanation. Calling Rossi a rank, obvious scammer would be defamation but of course, he'd have to prove he's not. The best proof would be to prove that the E-cat is real and works. Oh wait... he hasn't done that. James Randi was sued by an obvious fraud called Sniffex back in 2006. The judge ordered Sniffex to demonstrate the device in court in the presence of court appointed experts. They dropped the suit. Maybe I should call Rossi names and force his hand but actually that's not my style. The reality is that I believed early on Rossi might have something. Almost everything he's said and done since has helped to disabuse me of that belief. It would be truly ironic if the greatest invention of the last century was developed like Steorn (or any one of the other dozen or so silly ideas and scams Sterling Allan pushes at any given time). Or do you really think Obama was on Mars? Teleportation http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Teleportation *Mars visitors Basiago and Stillings confirm Barack Obama traveled to Marshttp://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/mars-visitors-basiago-and-stillings-confirm-barack-obama-traveled-to-mars * (2http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/basiago-and-eisenhower-reveal-marsgate-and-make-case-for-alternative-4| interviewhttp://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/er-andrew_d_basiagolaura_magdalene_eisenhower_3_24_2010.mp3mp3) - Two former participants in the CIA’s Mars visitation program of the early 1980’s have confirmed that U.S. President Barack H. Obama was enrolled in their Mars training class in 1980 and was among the young Americans from the program who they later encountered on the Martian surface after reaching Mars via “jump room.” (*Examiner*; November 6, 2011) From http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page This is the same author as the one who did Rossi's web site! Regrettably, the link is dead. Probably a UFO shot it.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Nice to see the web site is registered to Rossi but what the heck does the validity of the E-Cat have to do with the software that was used to create the web site or who the web site was created by or who it is administered by? I agree, very little. But it's unlikely that a prosperous and sophisticated company would do it that way, that's all. In what parallel universe did anyone claim that Rossi is prosperous or sophisticated? He supposedly sold his house to finance the work. Calling him sophisticated would be like calling my wardrobe debonair. (Fashion statement: Sears, circa 1995, size L). What is it with Rossi that people ascribe to him characteristics opposite from his actual ones? As I pointed out Krivit calls him strategic, articulate, charming. Umm . . . none of the above. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
You claimed Rossi may have scammed investors. Prove it or stop making up statement that you may wish to be real. BTW to engineers, he has proved the E-Cat works and that is all he needs to do. Why? Because his customers are engineering firms who do know how to measure the heat the E-Cat generates and how much energy it consumes. Case closed. AG On 11/12/2011 1:39 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: You have suggested Rossi may have scammed investors? Bold statement there Mary. Care to disclose your proof as otherwise you may have just committed Defamation and I'm sure the Vortex administrators will not wish to be involved in hosting defamatory comments. A bit of advise Mary, if I may, is that unless you have the money to defend a defamation action, I would suggest you be a bit more careful about making statement you apparently have no real proof of and are, I suspect, just making up to support your apparent spin efforts to discredit Rossi and the E-Cat. I should also point out that you can not hide behind a internet alias. The courts do have the ability to peal back the internet layers and find out who you really are. Wow. I'm terrified. Well, I'm going to be in good company in court. FYI, suggesting the possibility of fraud is not defamation, especially when supported by a careful explanation. Calling Rossi a rank, obvious scammer would be defamation but of course, he'd have to prove he's not. The best proof would be to prove that the E-cat is real and works. Oh wait... he hasn't done that. James Randi was sued by an obvious fraud called Sniffex back in 2006. The judge ordered Sniffex to demonstrate the device in court in the presence of court appointed experts. They dropped the suit. Maybe I should call Rossi names and force his hand but actually that's not my style. The reality is that I believed early on Rossi might have something. Almost everything he's said and done since has helped to disabuse me of that belief. It would be truly ironic if the greatest invention of the last century was developed like Steorn (or any one of the other dozen or so silly ideas and scams Sterling Allan pushes at any given time). Or do you really think Obama was on Mars? Teleportation http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Teleportation *Mars visitors Basiago and Stillings confirm Barack Obama traveled to Mars http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/mars-visitors-basiago-and-stillings-confirm-barack-obama-traveled-to-mars* (2 http://www.examiner.com/exopolitics-in-seattle/basiago-and-eisenhower-reveal-marsgate-and-make-case-for-alternative-4 | interview http://exopolitics.blogs.com/files/er-andrew_d_basiagolaura_magdalene_eisenhower_3_24_2010.mp3 mp3) - Two former participants in the CIA’s Mars visitation program of the early 1980’s have confirmed that U.S. President Barack H. Obama was enrolled in their Mars training class in 1980 and was among the young Americans from the program who they later encountered on the Martian surface after reaching Mars via “jump room.” (/Examiner/; November 6, 2011) From http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page This is the same author as the one who did Rossi's web site! Regrettably, the link is dead. Probably a UFO shot it.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: You claimed Rossi may have scammed investors. Prove it or stop making up statement that you may wish to be real. You're making stuff up. I already said I wish Rossi would be real. And yes, he may have scammed investors. He also might not. I believe that covers it. BTW to engineers, he has proved the E-Cat works and that is all he needs to do. Why? Because his customers are engineering firms who do know how to measure the heat the E-Cat generates and how much energy it consumes. Case closed. I have no idea how you know his customers are anything. He never named them. He never showed a customer! Supposedly there was an engineer from the buyer. Nobody could confirm that he was. Interestingly, he was at the exit interview and nobody seemed to ask him anything difficult. Did they even ask anything of the engineer? No other client possibilities have emerged. NI certainly is not one despite Craig Brown's foolishly premature post. The case is far from closed. I doubt that Rossi will ever scam an engineering firm, a big power company, a prestigious factory that needs a heater or anyone who has capable people on staff. Certainly he won't scam money out of anyone who consults with Rothwell or Cude or Lawrence or Heffner or Murray or many of the people who write regularly on this list that I may not yet know.That doesn't mean he can't bamboozle a few investors who have more money than good sense. Maybe already has or is planning to soon. I have no idea. What Rossi does seems to me to not make much sense. That new web site is an example. It's just weird. I don't mean to hurt your feelings. You seem really enamored of this thing. If I upset you that much, maybe you'd prefer I not respond to you?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Rossi does not have investors and never asked for them -- Forwarded message -- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Date: 2011/11/12 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up To: vortex-l@eskimo.com You claimed Rossi may have scammed investors. Prove it or stop making up statement that you may wish to be real. BTW to engineers, he has proved the E-Cat works and that is all he needs to do. Why? Because his customers are engineering firms who do know how to measure the heat the E-Cat generates and how much energy it consumes. Case closed. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
I think Steorn stumbled upon a real anomally but they erred in assuming that measurement alone was sufficient to demonstrate the reality of energy creation. Harry at 9:34 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.comwrote: If Steorn was operating a scam, why have they not been charged? I don't know. If you look at their history, it's clearly a scam. They also have contempt for their marks because they joke about them tacitly. Perhaps they operate just within Irish law. It could be a rampant scam and still not inherently illegal if they properly warned people ahead that the proposition was high risk. I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the internet. Maybe one can comment. I am intrigued by the translation from Kullander. I wonder what he will say. For me, this: An intensive discussion on the net have questioned the experiment in Bologna mainly by it can not be explained by the established nuclear physics theory. is important but it's not the main issue. I've already said what the important questions are. I hope Kullander speaks to them. I'm sure he's already had plenty of input from plenty of people!
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG On 11/12/2011 2:08 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: You claimed Rossi may have scammed investors. Prove it or stop making up statement that you may wish to be real. You're making stuff up. I already said I wish Rossi would be real. And yes, he may have scammed investors. He also might not. I believe that covers it. BTW to engineers, he has proved the E-Cat works and that is all he needs to do. Why? Because his customers are engineering firms who do know how to measure the heat the E-Cat generates and how much energy it consumes. Case closed. I have no idea how you know his customers are anything. He never named them. He never showed a customer! Supposedly there was an engineer from the buyer. Nobody could confirm that he was. Interestingly, he was at the exit interview and nobody seemed to ask him anything difficult. Did they even ask anything of the engineer? No other client possibilities have emerged. NI certainly is not one despite Craig Brown's foolishly premature post. The case is far from closed. I doubt that Rossi will ever scam an engineering firm, a big power company, a prestigious factory that needs a heater or anyone who has capable people on staff. Certainly he won't scam money out of anyone who consults with Rothwell or Cude or Lawrence or Heffner or Murray or many of the people who write regularly on this list that I may not yet know.That doesn't mean he can't bamboozle a few investors who have more money than good sense. Maybe already has or is planning to soon. I have no idea. What Rossi does seems to me to not make much sense. That new web site is an example. It's just weird. I don't mean to hurt your feelings. You seem really enamored of this thing. If I upset you that much, maybe you'd prefer I not respond to you?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Ka? I never said Rossi was looking for investors or had any. From what I have read he doesn't need them and has self funded this project. AG On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
You answer to someone as you were acknowledging such fact. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Ka? I never said Rossi was looking for investors or had any. From what I have read he doesn't need them and has self funded this project. AG On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto: aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
I cautioned that making statements of scamming investors, when those statement can not be proven, is defamation. My statements in no way give support to those making scamming statements. AG On 11/12/2011 2:41 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: You answer to someone as you were acknowledging such fact. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Ka? I never said Rossi was looking for investors or had any. From what I have read he doesn't need them and has self funded this project. AG On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
But you cannot say that is defamatory if there is no investors. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com I cautioned that making statements of scamming investors, when those statement can not be proven, is defamation. My statements in no way give support to those making scamming statements. AG On 11/12/2011 2:41 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: You answer to someone as you were acknowledging such fact. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto: aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Ka? I never said Rossi was looking for investors or had any. From what I have read he doesn't need them and has self funded this project. AG On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Defamation is the act of making a false statements with the intent to cause loss of reputation plus a few more. Suggesting to someone that the statement they just made may be defamatory, in no way supports the defamatory statement. AG On 11/12/2011 2:57 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: But you cannot say that is defamatory if there is no investors. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com I cautioned that making statements of scamming investors, when those statement can not be proven, is defamation. My statements in no way give support to those making scamming statements. AG On 11/12/2011 2:41 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: You answer to someone as you were acknowledging such fact. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Ka? I never said Rossi was looking for investors or had any. From what I have read he doesn't need them and has self funded this project. AG On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Would you give me a practical example? I just cannot understand how can someone lose reputation with something it doesn't exist. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Defamation is the act of making a false statements with the intent to cause loss of reputation plus a few more. Suggesting to someone that the statement they just made may be defamatory, in no way supports the defamatory statement. AG On 11/12/2011 2:57 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: But you cannot say that is defamatory if there is no investors. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto: aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com I cautioned that making statements of scamming investors, when those statement can not be proven, is defamation. My statements in no way give support to those making scamming statements. AG On 11/12/2011 2:41 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: You answer to someone as you were acknowledging such fact. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Ka? I never said Rossi was looking for investors or had any. From what I have read he doesn't need them and has self funded this project. AG On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.ecat@gmail.**com aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
That is the point. Rossi committed no act of scamming, so claiming Rossi had scammed is the act of defamation with intent to cause loss of reputation. AG On 11/12/2011 3:29 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Would you give me a practical example? I just cannot understand how can someone lose reputation with something it doesn't exist. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Defamation is the act of making a false statements with the intent to cause loss of reputation plus a few more. Suggesting to someone that the statement they just made may be defamatory, in no way supports the defamatory statement. AG On 11/12/2011 2:57 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: But you cannot say that is defamatory if there is no investors. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com I cautioned that making statements of scamming investors, when those statement can not be proven, is defamation. My statements in no way give support to those making scamming statements. AG On 11/12/2011 2:41 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: You answer to someone as you were acknowledging such fact. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Ka? I never said Rossi was looking for investors or had any. From what I have read he doesn't need them and has self funded this project. AG On 11/12/2011 2:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Aussie Guy, if you keep insisting that Rossi asked around for investors, you are provoking troll attacks, because you are creating a strawman for Rossi. Thus, you are helping with the mess around here. 2011/11/12 Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Mary you just do not get it do you? You can't go around saying you think Rossi may have scammed investors. That is defamation. You don't know if he has any investors, do you? You don't know how he raised his funding do you? Well he did that by selling a business and selling his house. AG
Re: [Vo]:Rossi E-Cat web site up
Yikes! Defamation would be: Rossi is a scammer A personal opinion and perfectly legal: Rossi may be a scammer (also he may not be one). Freedom of speech on that one, I think. Really -- I had this issue come up before and I checked with an attorney who specializes in it. There's no defamation in suggestion a possibility. And the first sentence is only defamation if Rossi is not a scammer and can prove it in court. I'm not sure he could! He'd have to show to the court's satisfaction that the E-cat was real and worked as advertised! Would he do that? He sure hasn't so far. Does Rossi have investors? Does Rossi have customers? Did Rossi use his own money? Did Rossi sell his house? Well I suppose we could check on the sale but we still wouldn't know the motive if he did sell a house. But on the other issues, the only thing you're going on is WHAT ROSSI SAID! Why do you do that? How in the world would you know if Rossi had secret investors and how can you know he doesn't? Yet you believe him when he says he has a secret client. Sorry but this is too funny for words.
