Re: [WikiEN-l] How's our coverage of medications?
2008/11/25 David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So what will it take for us to get this switched on for en:wp? Proof that having the sighted revision as the standard view (which you have to for it to be meaningfully useful) doesn't result in a drop in editing rate. Proof that en would be able to keep up with the required rate of sighting (We have a hard time marking new pages as patrolled at the moment) If you want to use drug articles as the foundation for your argument proof that it would provide any protection against subtle vandalism. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] How to sabotage Wikipedia, for SEO spammers
2008/11/26 David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.bluehatseo.com/how-to-overthrow-a-wikipedia-result/ What an odious person. - d. Standard SEO. The attack line has been talked about for at least a year but so far no dirrect evidence that it works. In theory it should as long as you assume that google treats wikis like other websites. Due to their unusually high levels of inline linking in wikis this is questionable. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Suggestion on how referencing system could be improved
2008/12/4 Gregory Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This type of edit box mediation has been done by other edit-helper userscripts, so it's certainly possible. Thoughts? While there are some theoretical risks (people making text changes without taking all the markup into account) I don't believe they would present a major problem. Colour choice may be an issue with the current red/green colorblindness prevalence. I'm also not sure how a screen reader would view it but that can be dealt with. Your other problem is the potential amount of javascript required and the effect that will have on older computers. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Suggestion on how referencing system could be improved
2008/12/4 Thomas Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Perhaps it's worth the cost of having a few orphaned refs to set up an easier-to-use system. (Of course, we could always have Special:OrphanedRefs :-).) It's not a few it tends to be rather a lot. Trying to keep two different sections of wikicode in sync is a fairly significant effort. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] help videos about editing?
2008/12/5 Angela [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:53 AM, phoebe ayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I feel like this has come up before, but I can't find anything -- Does anyone have recommendations for good video/movie tutorials on how to edit Wikipedia (or MediaWiki)? A colleague is looking to make some to augment a class about Wikipedia -- no need to reinvent the wheel if good ones already exist. There are a few listed here: http://wikiangela.com/wiki/Wiki-related_videos#Tutorials_and_courses If you know of others, feel free to add them. Angela handful at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Instructional_videos_on_using_wikipedia -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Abolishing image placeholders; again
2008/12/6 David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/12/6 Gregory Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: They stopped being so useful after enwp increased the account requirements to be able to upload, which is why they haven't been placed in many articles lately. :( I'll start placing them in articles again if at least a few others will do so as well. That's you for one, Greg. Anyone else? - d. Don't. As it current stand the system needs multiple changes before it is fully ready for use again. I don't feel like making them via remote control and in one case I need to get some info from the devs about how one of the changes will impact the servers (basically I want to put an if command into mediawiki:Sharedupload). -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] UK censorship: I'm on BBC Radio 4 Today show
2008/12/8 Thomas Dalton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/12/8 Nathan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I understand the intent in helping ISPs to limit collateral damage, and it certainly would be handy to have the problem resolved for the UK editors effected... But in the midst of the news cycle, and with a bit of a PR backlash in progress, I'm not sure you want to get into Wikipedia administrators, developers, work with ISPs to block access to images. It can wait a day or two, I think, to see if the IWF or the involved ISPs take action on their own. Indeed - give it a couple of days and the public pressure might be enough to force a U-turn. The media seems to be largely on our side for a change, which is nice. Perhaps they are finally coming to see up as one of their own and are seeing this as the authorities censoring the media? Doubtful. More likely that since IWF were out of the office over the weekend they haven't been able to present their side of the story. It's equally possible that the IWF is unsure if it should have blocked the image in question. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] UK censorship: I'm on BBC Radio 4 Today show tomorrow 8:20am
2008/12/8 Durova [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The point is that this group goes around preventing other people from accessing this or that, and neither the website nor the visitors get a fair notification. The way they handled this one was loopy, and if Wikipedia didn't have such heavy traffic it probably would have gone unnoticed. So what else *does* go unnoticed? -Durova Most likely mostly one sites that really do host problematical images. Ones we know about are rapidshare and part of 4chan. We have no real reason to think that they frequently make significant mistakes. In terms of them being more open we would be better arguing that they should asses if the site operator can be considered responsible and if they are inform them of the issue (if there is actual child porn on wikipedia we would like to know about it). Their counter arguments to that but most can be shot apart by pointing out they are currently withholding information that responsible site operators need to keep their sites child porn free. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Another Mirror Question
2008/12/11 Andrew Famiglietti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Also, I'm just curious as to why on earth they have decided to do this. Why host an (awful) machine translation of the french site when you could just as easily host the english wikipedia content? What gives? Does anyone have any idea? - Andy Hosting the English wikipedia will get you hammered with a duplicate content penalty so you tend not to rank very high in search results. In theory a machine translation of French would avoid that. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] The Community vs. Scholarly Consensus
2008/12/17 Phil Sandifer snowspin...@gmail.com: On Dec 17, 2008, at 1:48 PM, geni wrote: And this is one of the reasons why wikipedia policy is what it is. This fight has been done by others and they have done it better ( eg http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/decon.html ). Wikipedia policy is a pragmatic approach to the situation. Usually, yes. The passage in question, however, is not pragmatic in the least. -Phil It's very pragmatic. People in general seem to want plot summaries. It can also be rather hard to talk about a book/film/legend without one. They also appear to be expected of encyclopedia articles. So pragmatically we need to produce something the majority of people will accept as plot summaries. Unfortunately for less prominent works there tends to be a lack of secondary sources for such summaries to be based on. There is a further lack of accessible sources but that is a fairly universal problem. However experience shows us that wikipedians are for the most part able to write things that both the majority of wikipedians and our general readership are prepared to accept as reasonable summaries of the plots of the work in question. This being the case it is perfectly acceptable to allow them to continue doing so. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Subscription idea
2008/12/21 wjhon...@aol.com: As Todd mentions, some of us already subscribe to various online services. *IF* the WMF could negotiate a group rate, that could be a win-win situation. I would also come down on the side of established editors versus Admins. We are trying to ease the situation for our productive editors and so that would make more sense to provide a service like this to those who are actually doing the editing. Your problem would be getting a big enough group to make it worthwhile. Fairly few wikipedians are going to be interested in any given journal and searching them effectively is quite a trick. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia and indecent content
2008/12/23 Thomas Larsen larsen.thoma...@gmail.com: A) Yes it's appropriate, because we claim to be not censored. We already do tons of things that Brittanica doesn't do, so it's not fair to try to compare us to any other encyclopedia. We are a new item. We claim to be an encyclopedia. B) Yes it's in accordance with the standards we have established. No, because one of our standards is Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and that means Wikipedia provides the summary of all knowledge in accordance with good scholarly practices. The English language may be changing, but I think that the word encyclopedia still has this meaning and association. —Thomas Larsen Scholarly practices such as they exist in the field of popular music have long established that if you are going to talk about an album cover you show the thing. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Subscription idea
2008/12/24 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2008/12/24 Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net: Yes. A threat to a competitor's own self-interests can be a great motivator to promote Wikipedia's low image. It's comparable to the oil industry's perception of global warming. It's worked for Britannica and Brockhaus! Oh, wait. Brockhaus never really tried and Britannica is pretty half hearted to the point there not even really the go to people when the media want an anti-wikipedia comment any more. No academic publishing has a highly profitable business model and one they will fight much harder to defend than anyone we've previously run up against. However we cannot meaningfully disrupt their business model (We do not have the strength in the academic world to push open access journals significantly and the wider public is irrelevant to them). -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Subscription idea
2008/12/25 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: At this point the prudent move for us is to do nothing and continue to exist. Which has actually worked out surprisingly well for us so far. We've never run into anyone significant who's first reaction is to run to PR people and lobbyists. The PRC is hardly western media friendly and the poor IWF clearly isn't used to people caring about them. The hard Christian right we ran into back in what may? weren't interested in having any impact on the wider media. The various German people have tended not to realise what they are getting into. It's actually quite hard to come up with a company or group that is both rich and media savy that we could end up seriously inconveniencing. School text book people perhaps? Getty might be a candidate but their problem is more the internet as a whole(and since they are still worth a couple of billion they would appear to be surviving that). The pictures of Mohamed thing was already overdone by the time it reached us but some religious groups might be a risk factor I suppose. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
2008/12/31 Charlotte Webb charlottethew...@gmail.com:
If this is truly the root of all urgency we should turn on flaggedrevs.
Try and keep up with marking new pages as patrolled for say half an hour.
In the beginning we would want Google to index only an article's last
stable version (if one exists).
After a certain grace period (to keep known-good content from
vanishing), we can begin instructing Google to stop indexing articles
which have no flagged rev and to de-index existing unflagged revs.
There is no way to do this.
Some users like to nuke every {{third-world-topic-stub}} from
geostationary orbit because it is like a video game to them. Faster
pussycat, kill, kill, and let no mayfly die of natural causes.
Not so much. Since it is generally fairly easy to argue for the
significance of many unwritten third world articles.
Perhaps some of this energy can be channeled toward other tasks.
Experience suggests not.
--
geni
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Re: [WikiEN-l] Speedy deletion
2009/1/1 David Goodman dgoodma...@gmail.com: We could as easily set up new pages to have a half-hour holding period; the problem is how to separate the need to remove the truly nasty material immediately. A delay period inevitably requires checking things twice. Already possible http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPagesoffset=20090101212200 that is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewPagesoffset=year,month,day,hour,minute,second But no one wants to do that. Remember tagging is secondary admins can just straight delete without tagging. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Who The Hell Writes Wikipedia, Anyway?
2009/1/3 Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com: I think that is could be, not ought to be. The mission is not to maximise readership: as of early 2009, it still to write the encyclopedia. You know, the old Wikipedia some of us have thought we are writing for a few years now. As usual, there is the argument that if this other version of the mission was interesting enough to enough editors, they could fork. Not likely to happen, but it's a clarifying thought: really, how different would it be? Charles You are free to model a reverse of most of user:TTN's last few thousand edits to get some idea. In terms of complaints on forums and blogs I see if you ignore the complaints more focused what people want to write the loss of a significant chunk of our coverage of TV shows and various popular media is the most complained about. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] To boldy delete what no one had deleted before!
2009/1/5 White Cat wikipedia.kawaii.n...@gmail.com: I already prepared the popcorn. Oi! Who deleted my popcorn? Deletionists strike back! - White Cat User:TNN meets the persistently violating copyrights; requirements of WP:BLOCK. Mostly because from time to time they have actually moved content from one article from another (the rest of the time you can nail them for persistently lying in edit summaries). Given the format of the mediawiki software and the GFDL it is pretty much impossible to do such merges without violating copyright. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] To boldy delete what no one had deleted before!
2009/1/5 wjhon...@aol.com: In a message dated 1/5/2009 3:48:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, geni...@gmail.com writes: Mostly because from time to time they have actually moved content from one article from another (the rest of the time you can nail them for persistently lying in edit summaries). Given the format of the mediawiki software and the GFDL it is pretty much impossible to do such merges without violating copyright Could you explain a bit more why you think that merges violate copyright? Thanks Will Johnson When you merge the wording of the GFDL requires that you preserve the history (a really really bad choice of words). Can be done close enough through a history merge but most users don't/can't do that. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Rank hath its privileges
2009/1/8 Scientia Potentia est bibliomaniac...@yahoo.com: Agreed. This is an absolute travesty. Questionable. What deleted content wikipedia admins can hand over has always been something of a grey area. Deleted stuff that the author wants is fairly widely accepted to be okey but other areas left clear. Admins using the ability to see deleted material out of curiosity certianly happens a fair bit and not unknown for admins to comment in a manner informed by the information. Dirrect copy any paste however is unusual however it does happen. Saw it happen today in fact (okey so that was a completely harmless issue related to so interface stuff). While I would oppose it that is mostly because it doesn't look right rather than my being able to find an armored plated policy reason as to why that is the case. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Rank hath its privileges
2009/1/8 Wilhelm Schnotz wilh...@nixeagle.org: If I were not on a cell phone and had time, I would join the angry mob and start an RFAR :) I don't think he has any excuse for his actions which knowingly violated our copyright rules. He probably hasn't. The release under the GFDL is unlikely to be legit so the issue is entirely between him and the company. Our copyright rules do not apply. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] From Private Eye
2009/1/8 James Farrar james.far...@gmail.com: From the letters page in the current edition (Eye 1227, p. 14): Sir, Re Nooks and Corners, Eye 1226. It was a treat to see my rather amateurish photography appear (via Wikipedia) on page 12 of Eye 1226, depicting in all its glory West Bromwich's less-than-lovely The Public. As an Eye reader of many years, I shall now look forward to the greater honour of having this letter printed, which will neatly fulfil your obligation under the relevant GNU Free Documentation and Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike licences to give me a credit! Yours etc, David Waterson Solihull --- I laughed a lot. :) Hmm the image in question is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Public_north.JPG but they cropped it down a bit so a bit of the building is actually missing from the private eye version. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between 1923 and 1964
2009/1/12 Andrew Gray shimg...@gmail.com: [posted to commons-l and wikien-l; someone may want to forward it to wikisource-l, perhaps?] I've just run across this article, which might be of use in helping those who work on the eternal problem of determining whether or not a given 20th-century work is in copyright in the US. We don't use the copyright not renewed clause stuff and commons' general support for Must be PD in the country of origin as well as the US means we mostly dodge the issue. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Announcing Epistemia, a new wiki encyclopedia
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: In a message dated 1/15/2009 4:17:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, larsen.thoma...@gmail.com writes: - civil and polite conduct is required, and no tolerance is shown for those people whose intention is to cause disruption or damage; - This brings up an interesting point. Is there any analysis of the history of the splitting of Wikis, by whom, when, for what reason, and the longer term result? Might make an interesting bit of research to chart these all. Will Hudong may not be a split but it is apparently bigger than the English wikipedia depending on what they are counting as an article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoodong -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: It takes me a few dozen hours to scan the pages of a public domain work. I have a perfect right to expect payment for someone else to use it. That capitalism. No. Under capitalism you have the right to expect what someone else is prepared to pay you. If that is zero then it is zero. Since under US law sweat of the brow does not give something copyright protection if your scans are publicly available it is rather hard to get people to pay anything for them. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Announcing Epistemia, a new wiki encyclopedia
2009/1/16 Philip Sandifer snowspin...@gmail.com: Your choice of CC-BY-SA, which, at least for now, closes off use of Wikipedia content (and visa versa). It seems silly to start a free content encyclopedia and then render yourself unable to share content with a rather large project already underway in that area. -Phil Given the phrasing of the relicensing section of the GFDL 1.3 using it on a new project would be a really bad idea. At this point if you copy work from wikipedia then people modify it you cannot use the relicensing section to shift the modified versions over to CC-BY-SA-3.0. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: You know perfectly well this is a theory of the law and the case law is not clear. Depends where you are. And I hope you realize the chilling effect it gives to state that something like Google Books has no protection for their out-of-copyright scans. That Microsoft or whoever, can simply copy all of that material onto their own servers and thumb their noses at Google. Sure. Would take them forever though. That is what you're saying. That theory would effectively end anyone attempting to upload PD anything of significant value. Not really. Just because you have the content doesn't mean you are equal. Sure people will upload little dribs and drabs but we'll not be getting thousands of pages of census, and hundreds of thousands of pages of documents, maps, etc, since anyone like yourself can just copy the entire contents, rehost them, and place your own ads on your own server and make money off doing virtually nothing. This is what you want to happen on the internet? This sounds like a good thing to you? Your problem is that you are forgetting a number of factors. First there is the issue of first mover advantage. People get used to google books before Microsoft has a chance to compete. Second there is the issue of presentation. Microsoft can do all the mirroring they like won't mean they can match Google's software. Lots of was to add value with software. Frequently the design of the software can make large scale harvesting a near impossibility. Throw in some watermarking and mirroring your stuff seems rather unattractive. Sure wikipedia might be prepared to remove the watermark (sometimes for example only one image on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Sydney_Harbour has had the AWM watermark removed) but most people won't and those that do won't be able to on a large scale. You mention census stuff but that is mostly a government thing. Against that you have to consider that granting copyright in such cases effectively allows someone who can limit the physical access to the document to enjoy all the benefits of copyright even though they didn't create it. Sometimes the access control doesn't mean much. New popular edition maps are cheap. So acquiring them to scan does not present a major problem. Older less mass produced maps? 10K+. In effect you prevent large parts of the public domain ever being meaningfully PD. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: The ruling did *not* repeal sweat-of-the-brow. What it did was state that your work must have some creativity, some originality, some non-obvious content in order to enjoy copyright protection. Which effectively kicks out sweat of the brow. Sweat of the brow is on it's own non creative. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: That doesn't make sense to me. How do you limit PD items? How can I, direct the land office in my local county to *stop* giving copies to people who walk in? I can't. You seem to assume that all PD items are in public collections. If something is PD, then there is *some* where you can go or write or call to get a copy. You are confusing the *creation* of an image, with the *creation* of the original document. What we're discussing here is limiting the use of your creation, not the original creation. Unless you're actually proposing that PD-item scanners are actually buying originals and then destroying all copies of them in the world except their own. I really doubt that is occuring. Will Doesn't need to happen. In many cases there are only a very small number of copies or even just one. Most collectors are not going to allow people nears there stuff with scanners unless they are paid for access. But even public collections have this problem. I doubt you would be able to get a scanner into the imperial war museum collection or the British library collection. Under your system the only way to get a copy of those things not protected by rather limiting conditions. For example he's the conditions for the imperial war museam: http://collections.iwm.org.uk/upload/pdf/newlegal02a.pdf -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: But that's the way it's *always* been. So what What you want, is for me or some library or google or whoever, to do all the heavy lifting work, by scanning thousands or hundreds of thousands of pages of material, and then to just... steal it. Not at all. Everyone has a choice. In any case you are wasting your time if you think page counts are going to impress me. I know the basics of modern scanning techniques. That is essentially what you are saying. Once you've done all the work, tough, go spin, we'll do whatever we want with your work. Well yes. Just as I will ignore claims of copyright by the building owner over photos I take of buildings in the UK. That isn't what the court case you keep citing says you can do. Not at all. No. It doesn't say I can do that. However it makes it pretty clear that US based wikipedians can. Given the number of copyright claims we've ignored citing that case you would have thought someone would have tired taking the situation to court if they thought they actually had a case. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: We have always had the problem of how to access pd documents that might be sitting in some repository like for example the US Federal Census. Until ancestry and genealogy, starting scanning them in, you had to *go* to a Federal Archives (or similar repository) and sit *there* and view them during their hours and under their control. Now that net sites have begun uploading those documents so we can conviently view them, you want to steal them. Ah no. I want Americans to exercise the legal ability they have to use certain material in certain ways. If that cases companies issues then under the principles of capitalism that isn't my problem unless I own shares in them. That's not very nice. 1)Copyright law isn't nice 2)Compared to most of the other bits the relevant area isn't very nasty. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: Not a good example. The building owner is not working your camera, you are. You own the photographs you take, not the person who owns the object being photographed. Your US bias is showing. Consider French law. Still if you want a US law based case. Substitute 3D artworks in a public place in the UK for building. But what you are advocating, is that if you take lots of photos, and post them to your own web site, that any person wandering by who says Oh that's an image of a piece of art in the public domain can just lift it off your site, and plop it on theirs. Without any credit to you, without any consideration. Again depends where they are. But yes any American can do that with this stuff most of which I scanned: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_Ordnance_Survey_map_images -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: In a message dated 1/15/2009 9:06:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, mor...@gmail.com writes: Plenty of companies make money from things that they cannot control exclusive access to. If they provide a service worth money, they will remain profitable. Name one Just about every company that makes Generic pharmaceutics. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: In a message dated 1/15/2009 7:53:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, geni...@gmail.com writes: Which effectively kicks out sweat of the brow. Sweat of the brow is on it's own non creative. False. Sweat of the brow discusses effort. Creativity and effort can both exist, or neither exist, or one. They are independent variables. US law however has for the time being decided that sweat of the brow is not a variable to be considered. Since scanning is non creative there can be no copyright under US law. They may be under UK law depending on the process and they are rather unlikely to be under swiss law (which has rather high barriers to copyright). -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: In a message dated 1/15/2009 9:15:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, geni...@gmail.com writes: Just about every company that makes Generic pharmaceutics. - So you're advocating stealing from pharmacies to get free drugs? Otherwise I don't see the point in this example We're talking about *free* here after all Sigh. Companies that make generic pharmaceutical are making a product I am free to take, analyse and copy (okey so in reality I'd just look up the expired patent). They cannot control exclussive access to the stuff. And yet they make money. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: yes that's my point. You scanned it. You scanned it from PD documents. So this example only repeats what I've been saying. Not really. What I want you to do, is go find some web site and copy their stuff, and then post it to Commons :) do that I've mentioned rather a lot of times I'm British. British law in this area is slightly different. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: No one is stopping any American, from going to the repository where the originals items are stored and viewing them. You know this, I don't know why you keep pushing on that button, when it's clear that it's a non starter. View!= scanning. Heh ever tried to have a conversation with a government depositry about scanning their stuff? The companies are not trying to prevent people from viewing PD items. They are trying to prevent the viewing of their own copies of those items. Not the items. The copies. They are free to do that. Just can't use copyright as a tool. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: You are copying the formula. You are not stealing the item itself. There is quite a difference, sigh or no sigh. Okey so you consider copying images different to copying formulas? The endpoint of your argument would be that if someone takes a PD image and converts it into SVG it is okey to copy it but if they put it in a raster format it isn't. Or perhaps you think chemicals are magically different. If the formula is a DNA string I can literally drop it into a machine that will pretty much print it out. Still another option for people who make money of PD work are the companies that take advantage of the 50 year rule on recorded music in the UK. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Interesting article on restored copyrights in US works between...
2009/1/16 wjhon...@aol.com: Well it could be that what Geni is advocating is not legal in the US and the fact that Geni is not willing to do it Geni-self might be a good indication of that. Will It could be but you would have to overturn a fair bit of caselaw. The second part of you email however shows that you are either illiterate, lying or an idiot. It has been explained to you many times that I answer to UK law which is different in this area. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Reasons I care less about Wikipedia than I used to, No. 43
2009/1/18 James Farrar james.far...@gmail.com: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Images_of_Spider-Man_sculpture Existing copyright law is not wikimedia's fault. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Reasons I care less about Wikipedia than I used to, No. 43
2009/1/19 James Farrar james.far...@gmail.com: Oh, we always have a choice. In this case, one available choice is do nothing and see if they send us a CD. We could do that in a lot of cases. Rather runs into the problem that wikipedia is meant to be free content though. Another would be to contact them and ask is it OK for us to do this?. The answer will be no because getting a yes would likely involve them in a lot of paperwork. We are talking comic books here. While their history in the field of IP may be an interesting read and quite funny in some respects that doesn't mean that you could prize it off them without a very large crowbar. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Reasons I care less about Wikipedia than I used to, No. 43
2009/1/19 James Farrar james.far...@gmail.com: True, but IMX images hosted on enwiki get moved to commons PDQ. Not always. There are situations where they cannot be moved and notices are placed. In this case however the image could not be used on en since we don't allow non free images outside the article namespace because while some of them might qualify under fair use it isn't worth the hassle it would take to keep the situation under control. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Why infoboxes are good
2009/1/28 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2009/01/27/extracting-wikipedia-infoboxes-values-from-text/ - d. I saw one of the talks about work in this area on youtube. Other than the slight problem that they intialy focused on rambot articles their aproach looked fairly soild. They also got their bot to the point where it could pretty much write wikipedia articles by extracting info from thre web. The other thing they found was than opening sentances are very standardised which made them easy to extract information from. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Why infoboxes are good
2009/1/28 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2009/1/28 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2009/01/27/extracting-wikipedia-infoboxes-values-from-text/ - d. I saw one of the talks about work in this area on youtube. Other than the slight problem that they intialy focused on rambot articles their aproach looked fairly soild. They also got their bot to the point where it could pretty much write wikipedia articles by extracting info from thre web. The other thing they found was than opening sentances are very standardised which made them easy to extract information from. Ah here's the relevant video: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=cqOHbihYbhENR=1 -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Watch out Wikipedia, here comes Britannica 2.0
2009/1/29 Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net: So what if it takes 3 weeks? So what if there are backlogs? Even accepting the premise that EB can maintain such a breakneck speed, whoever defined this as a race to do things more quickly? Our readers and our content writers. Speed of updates is a feature much liked by readers (and back when people where doing WPvsEB was often used as a point in wikipedia's favor). For our content writers the instant results are a significant part of their reward for contributing. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Watch out Wikipedia, here comes Britannica 2.0
2009/1/29 Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net: Speed of updates may be a factor for current events, but I see nothing to convince me that EB wants to enter that field. Nor do I see them as competitors to upload the latest plot line of Desperate Housewives as soon as it has aired. Has there been a survey of non-editing readers about the speed of updates, and what that means to them? I suspect that their demands would involve a significantly longer yardstick than the minute. It's not as though we were a newspaper trying to get the latest scoop on its competitor. Compared to Wikinews, Wikipedia should not need to feel that pressure. Failing to keep up with deaths is something EB has taken flack for in the past. I don't share your passion for instant gratification, a concept with problems that extend far beyond the wikis. What you have a passion for doesn't really matter. What our driveby content adders have a passion for does. With flagged revisions our content writers would continue to see the results of their labours immediately. False. Only logged in users will see them. If they are any good at what they do they can also feel confident that the general public will also soon see their changes. See the backlog of unpatrolled new pages. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Desysopping
2009/2/11 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: I have occasionally referred to some of our more common-sense disabled editors as Turing Test failures ... Which is a bit of a problem if you want to have credibility addressing a civility issues. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] [Slashdot] The Role of Experts In Wikipedia
2009/2/16 Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com: Yeah, well, my reaction to the whole fruit discussion is that it is systemic-bias-lite. Maybe but that doesn't address the problem. Wikipedia has already reached the point where most people find it includes most of the stuff they carry around in their heads. As a result the average person is facing far fewer opportunities to write new articles or expand existing ones than they used to. This makes both continuing expansion in size and editor numbers somewhat tricky. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] xkcd
2009/2/21 Kat Walsh k...@mindspillage.org:
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Oskar Sigvardsson
oskarsigvards...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Judson Dunn cohes...@sleepyhead.org
wrote:
For your comedy pleasure :)
http://xkcd.com/545/
chaos! :)
Ahh, but Black-Hat Man hasn't anticipated our response! We'd delete
the article on grounds of notability!
That's a boring response -- I would just insert a template that can
display either an odd or an even number of words dependent on
something outside the article itself...
-Kat
Unless template code has a random function I can't see a way to do it.
Even {{REVISIONID}} {{PAGESIZE:page
name}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFUSERS}}{{NUMBEROFEDITS}}{{NUMBERINGROUP:groupname}}
wouldn't quite be ungameable.
--
geni
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Re: [WikiEN-l] A proposal to de-table Wikipedia infoboxes
2009/3/3 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: By Hakon Wium Lie of Opera: http://www.princexml.com/howcome/2009/wikipedia/infobox/ What is the likelihood of making as much as possible CSS? How to make infoboxes degrade gracefully for non-CSS browsers and IE users? - d. Hmm it's broken in seamonkey. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] History started in 1995
2009/3/4 Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com: Two words: interlibrary loan. -Durova Doesn't work so well these days. Enough libraries have been closed and stock sold off that you don't have to get that obscure before you have to turn to the rather expensive out of county loan system. For example my county does not have a copy of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_This_Thing_Called_Science%3F -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] History started in 1995
2009/3/4 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: 2009/3/4 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2009/3/4 Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com: Two words: interlibrary loan. -Durova Doesn't work so well these days. Enough libraries have been closed and stock sold off that you don't have to get that obscure before you have to turn to the rather expensive out of county loan system. For example my county does not have a copy of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_This_Thing_Called_Science%3F Can we not assume the whole world is situated in the middle of North America, please? I'm kinda British. Most of the English speaking first world is in a reasonable shape with regard to libraries. Outside that I'm not sure. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] History started in 1995
2009/3/4 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk: There should be a way of finding out about these things, and perhaps some sort of give us your old books drive would be worth trying. Neither the WMF nor chapters are really in a position to store large numbers of books and for the most part current library services do the job well enough. Getting access to existing collections and permission to make copies of them (county archives will generaly photocopy stuff for you but they won't let you point a camera at the stuff) is a more significant issue at this point. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] History started in 1995
2009/3/4 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/3/4 geni geni...@gmail.com: Getting access to existing collections and permission to make copies of them (county archives will generaly photocopy stuff for you but they won't let you point a camera at the stuff) is a more significant issue at this point. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sun-Glasses-Camera-with-2GB-Flash-Memory-+Micro-SD-Slot_W0QQitemZ150327823289QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090220?IMSfp=TL090220122003r5179 Now to work out how to make it a tax deduction! - d. Sneaking in a camera would not be a problem if I felt like doing that but I have standards. What bugs me is the restriction is so irrational. It's not a matter of protecting the documents. I was allowed to handle them without wearing gloves, they were fairly robust (19th century1:500 OS maps. large enough scale that would identify individual rooms in buildings) and in any case photographing even with flash (not that I would need to use a flash) would have done less damage than photocopying. It's not a matter of disruption since modern camera can be pretty much silent where as the microfilm machines people were useing were rather noisy. It may be a matter of control since there are conditions on what you can do with the photocopies and when a few years back I asked them about CC release I wasn't able to get a straight answer. Annoying. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] So much for the Obama scandal
2009/3/10 Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com: Interesting ... last I heard the world economy was in meltdown, there is no free-market solution in sight yet, and state intervention is running out of zeroes. And what really interests the media is stories about other smaller parts of the media dreamed up by microscopic portions of the media ... about the person on whose desk the buck has apparently stopped. So at least the focus is squarely on Mr Obama's economic competence - not. Charles It's coverage in the actual media rather than blogs isn't very widespread. It is however cheap and easy to write so there is a significant incentive for media organisations to pick it up. similar to the reason it can be rather hard to find out about day to day events outside the more heavily industrialised notations. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia isn't just a good idea - it's compulsory
2009/3/25 Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com: Getting back to the original post. How's Wikipedia's coverage of history, compared to the average British school textbook? -Durova Probably more comprehensive in that no one has yet worked out how to make a text book 30 foot thick. On the other hand in say the case of WW1 wikipedia tends to focus on the battles, the tactics, the weapons and to an extent the politics rather than what life was like for the average solider. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_warfare#Life_in_the_trenches probably comes closest. Compare that with the length of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Chamond_(tank) -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Microsoft kills Encarta
2009/3/31 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: Hmm. Can you get $$$ from that? me dreams about making fortune from this The technology isn't there yet and when it is you will likely hit the problem that rather a lot of other people will also be able to do it. Some Wikipedia mirrors seem to be trying to do this already. Not in the way I meant. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Microsoft kills Encarta
2009/3/31 Peter Coombe thewub.w...@googlemail.com: I think the challenge now is for Wikipedia to try and fill the gap it has made. Wikipedia for schools is the best effort in that area. Wikipedia has never been very good at internally selecting subsections of wikipedia for best ofs and the like. Despite Encarta's disadvantages (cost, slow to update) it had excellent multimedia - something Wikipedia is sadly lacking in. I'm pretty sure we have more video and sound than Encarta ever did. Also its structured guides to topics were great, especially in the later versions. Wikipedia mostly does this through nav boxes. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Microsoft kills Encarta
2009/3/31 wjhon...@aol.com: In a message dated 3/31/2009 9:58:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dger...@gmail.com writes: (In image search, Google and all other search engines still suck. Here's to tagging coming to Commons.) Somewhere in my hazy memory I remember two projects I'd read about. There was a guy or a bunch of guys maybe who were trying to teach a computer how to recognize large expanses of flesh so it could find nude pictures I suppose. It sort of worked under some conditions but that is only one type of image. Then there was a human-tagging project where people ranked up points as they tagged images with whatever. I'm not clear how it worked, and I haven't heard of it for some years. There are some tasks that humans will always be better at than machines. That's probably why Google's image search sucks. But if I search for Brad Pitt Nude I still get several decent hits anyway. Problem is neither humans nor machines are very good at image tagging. Machines are obvious but lets look at humans. First problem is that your average human isn't an expert on everything. Unless you are interested in the early history of submarines you are going to have a hard time working out what this photo is of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Smfirstholland.jpg and unless you are a real submarine nerd you will likely only know that because it is the pic everyone uses. Now you would hope that the uploaded would tag it. Problem there is that the unloader is only thinking about it in one context when it might usefully be tagged with additional things to over other contexts. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Microsoft kills Encarta
2009/3/31 FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com: I'm fine with that - it's inevitable, and so far as I can think, only has three flavors- - Wikipedia subsumes into whatever may come in future, - Wikipedia becomes whatever may come in future (or specializes into some niche), - or Wikipedia is marginalized (and potentially killed off) by whatever may come in future. You missed whatever comes next useing parts of wikipedia. Even if you weren't interested in wikipedia content would you really want to go to the effort of recreating wikipedia's redirect and disambiguation system? -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Microsoft kills Encarta
2009/3/31 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net: Yeh, you would. It is not that good. It is inconsistent and fails to adequately define many terms because Wikipedia is not a dictionary and fails to provide appropriate external links because Wikipedia is not a web directory. Those are not something you want out of a redirect or disambiguation system. You want something that can tell the differences between cases like [[HMS Victory]] where it's safe to assume that people are talking about the one that was nelsons flagship and [[HMS Iron Duke]] where you are better off questioning further. You also want a system that highlights the key distinguishing features of whatever is being disambiguated. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Earth Deletion Discussion
2009/4/1 Elias Friedman elipo...@gmail.com: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Earth_(2nd_nomination) And before anyone gets too outraged, do make note of today's date. One of these days people will learn to be original. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Earth Deletion Discussion
2009/4/3 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: Not quite. If someone disagrees with you, you can explain why they are wrong, and at the end of the argument, you can appeal to common sense. Sometimes, if that person steps back and considers things with that mention of common sense in mind, they will be persuaded. Personally I would prefer that people considered things logically. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Students use Wikipedia, they just don't mention doing so
2009/4/3 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: http://lisagoldresearch.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/im-shocked-to-discover-theres-gambling-in-this-casino/ - d. We know this. It's pretty much the reaction of journalists when told to stop useing wikipedia. Looking at the actual report the treasure hunt concept seems interesting if the exact opposite of something I sometimes do with wikipedia (find a random slightly obscure source then use it to add info to appropriate wikipedia articles). -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Students use Wikipedia, they just don't mention doing so
2009/4/3 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: Looking at the actual report the treasure hunt concept seems interesting if the exact opposite of something I sometimes do with wikipedia (find a random slightly obscure source then use it to add info to appropriate wikipedia articles). Pretty much. See a fact or article, it triggers your Wikipedia Sense, you go to the article ... and someone got there already. (I scored adding the death of Encarta! w00t!) My source (currently) is a book published in 1981 about Every Vickers built tank ever. Aside from being a bit fanboyish it's not bad. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] An open letter to Jimmy Wales
2009/4/9 Sam Korn smo...@gmail.com: Perhaps you can explain what the world at large, the Wikipedia community and I personally gain from publicly pursuing it. It has in the past caused problems with our [[Wikipedia]] article and Jimbo's past attempts to distort the record did cause unnecessary conflict within wikipedia. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] An open letter to Jimmy Wales
2009/4/9 doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com: Are these IRC transcripts accurate? The source is questionable, but as a minor participant in one of the discussions, it does seem to tally with my (admittedly fuzzy) memories. http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=Jimbo_Fired_Up The first one is. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] An open letter to Jimmy Wales
2009/4/9 Larry Sanger sanger-li...@citizendium.org: The reputation of Wikipedia as an endless source of scandal and dishonesty, Nah. Sure journalists have worked out that an attack on wikipedia will get them some viewer ship but these days the attacks tend towards outdated recycled stuff or I don't like it. Fresh scandals not so much. coupled with this open letter, in which I decided to use whatever weight my views have in the court of public opinion to confront the project's leading light. Deny it if you must, but you have a problem on your hands. We have many many problems. From the POV of the community Jimbo's actions with regards to the founder issue probably ranks somewhere below the fight over the Country X country Y relations articles. That's only part of it, and not the biggest part. My biggest complaint is that Jimmy has lied about me, and a lot of people have believed him. I am determined finally to hold Jimmy Wales to account for it. What does this have to do with the foundation or the community? Well, Sam, if the honesty or dishonesty of your leader and chief spokesman does not concern you, if you don't care that he has used his position to distort the truth for personal gain, I doubt there is anything I can say that will convince you. Jimbo is not the leader (sue might have a better claim to that but hard to tell) and I think chief spokesbeing is probably jay. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lies, damned lies, and statistics
2009/4/17 Seth Finkelstein se...@sethf.com:
It's also pretty common for those two type to have conflicts,
and that usually ends with the business/marketing type working-over
the academic/creative type. Wikipedia is NOT an original story there :-(.
Of course the problem with that description was that Larry was
involved in conflicts with other wikipedians.
Larry's position was never long term stable. If you look at how the
foundation interacts with the community these days it's either through
pronouncements or through indirect social networks.
2. Will Citizendium become a top 1000 website within the next five years?
Depends on if Google does something to boost that sort of site.
(I think the *real*, crucial, irreplaceable, founder of Wikipedia, is Google)
No. Looking at yahoo and MSN it's pretty clear that anything close to
a normal search algorithm will tend to favor wikipedia for certain
types of searches.
3. Is debate about Sanger's and Wales's respective cofounder/founder
claims regarding Wikipedia a worthwhile endeavor?
Speaking here just as a very interested observer, apart from
matters of personal injustice or formal relevance, there's many issues
at the bottom of this about Wikipedia itself. To note just one, either
way there's a pretty scary implication - that is, EITHER:
1) One of the most prominent and highest-ranking Wikipedia people is
claiming his biography is being kept wrong, by a group favoring
a disgruntled former employee building himself a nice career on this lie
OR
2) One of the most prominent and highest-ranking Wikipedia people is
attempting to use Wikipedia to rewrite history for his own self-promotion,
with only the threat of outside scandal limiting his attempts to do so
I can't {{sofixit}} without creating a media firestorm
[I assume the infamous IRC transcripts I'm quoting are accurate]
[I'm of course for case #2, but I acknowledge there's belief in case #1,
which after all does include that prominent and high-ranking Wikipedian]
Though case #2 is better for Wikipedia itself than case #1,
again, either way, there's something profound there.
Except several years behind the times. The community has dealt with
the issue and from what I've seen Jimbo has been back peddling of
late.
--
geni
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[WikiEN-l] We've been overtaken.
Hudong.com is now bigger than us: http://www.jlmpacificepoch.com/newsstories?id=139049_0_5_0_M In fact they may have broken 3 million but I can't read 全球最大中文百科由全球1,016,360位网民共同编写而成。共计3,050,203词条，32.7亿文字 and I'm not totally certain their definition of article is the same as ours. Still I think we need to get a clearer idea of what is going on at Hudong. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] We've been overtaken.
2009/4/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com: Exactly what I thought. Better integration and support for wikiprojects (have to say, I sort of prefer task groups as a name...), better recognition on the wiki of top contributors to various articles -- those are things we could really learn from. Historically wikiprojects getting hold of too much power or thinking they have has tended to cause problems. And if we could approach the proprietor, and encourage a more compatible licensing scheme, our Chinese language projects could really benefit (and their project could benefit from Wikimedia content). I suspect they already take it. Did this thing just appear out of nowhere? Suddenly a collaborative online reference site larger than the English Wikipedia? Been around for a while. I was expecting it to overtake en this year but not this soon. Would be interesting to know how they beat out Baidu Baike. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Citizendium vs. Wikipedia
2009/4/22 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: 2009/4/22 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: 2009/4/22 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2009/4/22 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/4/22 wjhon...@aol.com: Is there a list of the top100 most popular Wikipedia pages? http://stats.grok.se/ http://wikistics.falsikon.de/2009/wikipedia/en/ http://wikistics.falsikon.de/latest/wikipedia/en/ Are more up to date. And no I can't explain why the article on the Beatles is as popular as it is. It should be popular yes but not that popular. Wounder if it is being used by something to check to see if it can access the net. Well, something happened on 21 November 2008 http://stats.grok.se/en/200811/The_Beatles Any guesses? Something checking a net connection is possible, but personally I use google.com for that, and so do most people I've looked over the shoulder of. That or bbc.co.uk. Why would someone use the Wikipedia article on The Beatles? Someone on IRC has realised that it didn't start on the 21st, that's just when the hits moved from [[Beatles]] to [[The Beatles]]. It actually started gradually last September... When oddities have turned up in the most viewed before I assumed it was compromised computers useing the page to check if they had net access (wikipedia is not a very suspicious site for a computer to visit). Other options would be a popular site useing it for a leave this site link. But I wouldn't expect traffic on that level. It would be a very odd choice for a large organization homepage so I think we can rule that out. It's most odd. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Citizendium vs. Wikipedia
2009/4/23 Ian Woollard ian.wooll...@gmail.com: It looks like it might be related to The Beatles: Rock Band which seems to be by far the worlds most expensive video game or something. It was announced last September or so and there were more news stories about it on the 20th/21st this month. It is a bit suspicious that the interest is staying so high though, usually the peaks die away more quickly, but I think that's it. No. It's not just high but in the daily top few for months. The Beatles have got more views this year than Barack Obama or in fact any article other than wiki. Its getting double the views of Watchmen which probably had far more geek and general internet appeal. 100K views week in week out is simply not possible for well anything conventional. Even Barack Obama doesn't manage that most months. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Knol - Our first major scandel
2009/4/24 wjhon...@aol.com: Just in case anyone wants to gloat and say See them too... _http://knol.google.com/k/krishan-maggon/knol-site-metrics/3fy5eowy8suq3/42_ (http://knol.google.com/k/krishan-maggon/knol-site-metrics/3fy5eowy8suq3/42) # Will Johnson Mixture of copyright violation and people useing such copyvios to improve their ranking on some scale that I don't understand. Interesting cultural contrast. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Knol - Our first major scandel
2009/4/26 wjhon...@aol.com: I, along with seven other co-authors, write an article on say Cheese Whiz. In the article we state that anyone may copy the article, provided that they state where they got it from, and that the article may be copied by anyone else provided that they state where they got it from... Can I alone bring a lawsuit against anyone else copying the article without stating where they got it from? Since the article is not exactly *copyright* I would say it's freely licensed under one condition. Does this really fall under copyright law? Or would it be more in the way of a standard contract? It falls under copyright law. See Jacobsen v. Katzer. Multiple authors for the most part isn't a problem. With the possible exception of a few major battleground or very popular articles most wikipedia articles have someone who would have standing to sue. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Notability in Wikipedia
2009/4/27 doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com: The sourcing issue on notability is silly. It seems to me to be the brainchild of scientists who want to deny the fact that what's important in human life is subjective and cannot be reduced to some arithmetical formula: sources *n / PI = notability. To take an obvious example. An article on an 18th church building, which has been created using a well-researched webpage from the church and perhaps some mention on the denomination's site, plus one brief mention on the site of the village in which it is situation, is deleted as not notable because it lacks multiple third party sources. If an 18th century church has managed to avoid appearing in any of the books on random bits of village architecture and in any of the local histories that fill the shelves of libraries it's not very notable. If a church has managed to exist since the 18th century without being the subject of even one local news piece it's heading towards impressively non notable territory. I can see it happening with some of the 60s built churches (assuming the local newspaper has a ban on printing anything religion related) but even 19th century would be rather surprising. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Knol - Our first major scandel
2009/4/27 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/4/27 wjhon...@aol.com: In a message dated 4/27/2009 11:12:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sainto...@telus.net writes: Yes, and, absent any agreement to the contrary, any one of those same authors may grant a free licence. I'm very suspicious of this claim. If I and seven other own a piece of property, I alone cannot sell it to a prospective buyer. The same would hold of copyright. Although each owner has a copyright, a single owner cannot grant away the entire right to a third party. It also doesn't sound right from the practices for free software - where relicensing is a massive pain in the backside because of the need to get agreement from all contributors. Hence the or later language recommended for the GPL - and the GFDL, hence a mere vote on relicensing being possible. - d. It's one of the issues that comes up with lower level orphan works. Since people don't normally mention copyrights in their wills after a couple of generations working out who holds what rights can be near impossible. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Twitterpedia will win
2009/5/5 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: http://www.lisnews.org/encyclopedic_knowledge_then_vs_now Nice comment on this article: Some say that all software loaded on a local machine will soon be obsolete, so it's not a problem with Encarta, but with technology. I wonder if Wikipedia will be here 10 years from now, with it's long-winded entries, when Twitterpedia tells me everything I need to know in 140 characters or less. You should read the Twitterpedia version of the Peloponnesian War. Soon, that's all we'll be able to comprehend, 140 characters or less. (okay, there is no Twitterpedia,... not a real one, anyway.) So. Who's going to start Twitterpedia? - d. Effectively thats what the opening sentences of wikipedia articles should already be (with the opening paras being the summery wikipedia). -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Twitterpedia will win
2009/5/5 wjhon...@aol.com: -Original Message- From: FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:35 am Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Twitterpedia will win Redundant text - the X war was a war duh :) Try this: The Peloponnesian War (Ancient Greece, 431-404BC), took place between Athens and its empire, against the Eponymous League led by Sparta. Rock on! - Why do you have to state Ancient Greece ? And remove The Also was is much shorter than took place Peloponnesian War (431-404BC), Athens and its empire, against the Spartan-led Eponymous League. Peloponnesian War (431-404BC), Athens and its empire vs Spartan-led Eponymous League. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Rod Liddle, Spectator, on his Wikipedia article
2009/5/6 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: On reflection, there is lots of vandalism to that talk page, and it doesn't match Liddle's description of what he claims to have added. i.e. Unless he gives more details, he is almost certainly having us on here. But doing so in a magazine article like that without providing a link that would demonstrate the truth of what he is saying just shows how little he understands how a wiki works. Well I went through the [[Rob Liddle]] to see If I could find him defending himself. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rod_Liddlediff=104862199oldid=101866916 Perhaps but nothing of significance on the Cristiano Ronaldo article around that date. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rod_Liddlediff=prevoldid=104862199 Again possible but nothing of significance on the Cristiano Ronaldo article around that date http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rod_Liddlediff=prevoldid=133409794 Loads of vandalism on Cristiano Ronaldo around that date but nothing that fits Liddle's claims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/81.156.42.14 Is another candidate but again nothing -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Docs look to Wikipedia for condition info: Manhattan Research
2009/5/26 Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net: This is a prime example of how rules are taken to be everything on Wikipedia, and how common sense is ignored. Wikipedia should not provide information that is likely to lead to harm. That would require us to exclude information on rather a lot of ethnic conflicts. If there's a rule which says that we must provide it, then that rule is wrong. This is so even if the rule is called a mandate. Mandates, rules, or whatever are never supposed to be applied without common sense. Why do you expect anyone else to follow your version of common sense? -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Docs look to Wikipedia for condition info: Manhattan Research
2009/5/26 Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net: This is another example of being overly literal and avoiding common sense. I'm not interested in the prejudices you acquired by the age of ten. Obviously, when I say Wikipedia should avoid harm, I don't mean it should avoid *any harm whatsoever*. Then don't say that. Rather, it means that we need to think about how much harm something can do and not cause harm that is exceptionally acute when the benefit to the encyclopedia is relatively small. How do you figure this out? Well, you have to think--there's no rule for it. Anything that doesn't present a significant chance of destroying the species cannot be considered exceptionally acute given how many things there are around that do carry that risk. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Intellipedia
2009/5/27 Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com: But for Intellipedia what seems to go on is that they build articles that are still for background, and link to live WP pages also (rather than importing), so forming a layer between us and the actual hard intelligence. Charles Linking to wikipedia pages would be kinda risky. One leak of what CIA IPs are and we can then use server logs to track what the CIA and simular are interested in. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Intellipedia
2009/5/27 Aryeh Gregor simetrical+wikil...@gmail.com: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 7:36 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: Linking to wikipedia pages would be kinda risky. One leak of what CIA IPs are and we can then use server logs to track what the CIA and simular are interested in. The IP addresses used by the CIA are not secret. No some of them are not secret. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Intellipedia
2009/5/27 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 7:36 AM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: Linking to wikipedia pages would be kinda risky. One leak of what CIA IPs are and we can then use server logs to track what the CIA and simular are interested in. The IP addresses used by the CIA are not secret. It would, nevertheless, be an abuse of checkuser to run those searches, without cause. Fred Edits aren't the issue. The reason I think it is unlikely that their links are truly external is well consider the following. Suppose a developer pulled up the server logs for today and found a bunch of CIA IPs looking at North Korean related articles. Wouldn't mean much since with the nuclear test we would expect the CIA to have a heightened interest in that subject right now. Now suppose they found a bunch of views of Mauritania and related. That would be an information leak. Now sure the CIA will have access to IPs registered through front companies and the like (the web is too useful to cut yourself off from completely) but there is always a risk of those being compromised so I would again expect them to have an internal copy of wikipedia at least as a first port of call. On the separate issue of trying to get CIA code there is still the question of how certain are you that you can beat a CIA attempt to insert an obfuscated back door? -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] A new solution for the BLP dilemma
2009/6/4 Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com: Hi all, in two years of looking for solutions to the BLP issues have finally stumbled upon an idea that hasn't been raised before. Basically it's this: *Suppose we noindexed biographies of living persons, upon the subject's request.* This would require developer assistance, and require a bit of structure to make sure the ability doesn't get misused. An initial draft proposal is at my blog. Am interested in thoughts and suggestions. http://durova.blogspot.com/2009/06/biographies-of-living-persons-ingenius.html Best regards, Durova Been suggested before. Answer is either: No what search engines do with wikipedia content is none of our business. No the subjects of articles have no right to determine wikipedia behavior Of course it could also be argued that effectively making a public record of people who are sensitive about their bios it's exactly an improvement on the current situation. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] GDFL compliance
2009/6/6 Sam Korn smo...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 12:21 AM, Falcorianalex.public.account+enwikimailingl...@gmail.com wrote: We have a policy: [[Wikipedia:Reusing Wikipedia content]] It would be good to have something that specifically referred to reuse of images, since I think that is probably more common than reusing text. Sam I haven't checked it over lately but that should be at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Reusing_content_outside_Wikimedia -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] GDFL compliance
2009/6/6 Angela bees...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 2:26 AM, Sam Kornsmo...@gmail.com wrote: (Photo: a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Houses_of_Parliament.jpg;Wikipedia/a) I imagine that would satisfy *almost* everyone. Adding the license wouldn't be much harder: (Photo: a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Houses_of_Parliament.jpg;Wikipedia/a, a href=http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html;GFDL/a) Angela Not really. You are still entirely reliant on wikipedia servers staying up and the image staying in that place which is why you should host the credit and probably the GFDL locally. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google thinks Wikipedia is a news source
2009/6/7 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiropractic/3601011581/ - d. Unfortunate but unsurprising. Not that long ago Google was telling traditional media that they should construct their articles in a more wikipedia like manner (ie continuously update a single article per event rather than creating a string of new articles). -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google thinks Wikipedia is a news source
2009/6/7 AGK wiki...@googlemail.com: Unfortunate but unsurprising. Not that long ago Google was telling traditional media that they should construct their articles in a more wikipedia like manner (ie continuously update a single article per event rather than creating a string of new articles). Unsurprising indeed. I get the impression, from projects such as Knol, that Google is something of an admirer of the Wikipedia model. AGK Knol is somewhat different. Perhaps more directly the recent actions of Google and Microsoft bing suggest that part of being a modern search engine is effectively presenting wikipedia content to people. You also have the issue that both google maps and Microsoft's multimap have the ability to show wikipedia articles on their maps. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google thinks Wikipedia is a news source
2009/6/7 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/6/7 geni geni...@gmail.com: Perhaps more directly the recent actions of Google and Microsoft bing suggest that part of being a modern search engine is effectively presenting wikipedia content to people. It was certainly surprising to see Microsoft getting into directly providing a Wikipedia mirror. - d. Not really new. View say central London on multimap then select the wikipedia tick box. With Encarta abandoned microsoft has no real interest in developing an alternative to wikipedia any more so why not use it? -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Image reuse
2009/6/18 Andrew Turvey andrewrtur...@googlemail.com: Wikinews interestingly does for images. I never quite understood why they do and we don't - maybe it'll catch on! Andrew Basically because having credit:wetriffs.com in the article space would be inappropriate. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Hi there, everybody!
2009/6/18 Emily Monroe bluecalioc...@me.com: That is certainly a legitimate topic of discussion on this list: how we might make Wikipedia a friendlier, more welcoming place. So, not a place to socialize, but nonetheless a welcoming place to be? Socialising generally takes place though the likes of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IRC and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] collective or collaborative areas of Wikipedia
2009/6/19 Emily Monroe bluecalioc...@me.com: Varies from project to project over time. Some are quite collaborative others more stick to highlighting weak points and standardisation. I guess whatever floats their boat is what's best for them. I notice, from time to time, that some wikiprojects I run across have become inactive. It's sad, really--almost like a memorial to once might've been a tight-knit community. Even if it wasn't, still... What should we do that about that? One thing I'm worried about is, is the less collaborative ones more likely to become inactive? Should we write an short paragraph in the signpost about any wikiproject that's *just about* to go inactive? I know there's an article about wikiprojects in every signpost. Too many. In most cases they are best thought of as being in statis. Whatever targets the original people wanted to meet have either been met, abandoned or people have moved on to another forum. If a couple of new people come along with fresh targets they can re-awake. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google Starts Including Wikipedia on Its News Site
2009/6/22 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net: Remember, we have people in Iran. Fred But not reporters and I don't think wikinews is getting much stuff. The view is understandable. So called citizen journalism doesn't do much in the way of original research or reporting and the cases that it does do per year can generally be counted on the fingers of one hand. In the overwhelming majority of cases Blogs and the like consist of nothing more than commenting on stories in the traditional media. Stories they worked hard to get. Heh even when there was that plane crash on the Hudson river, an ideal case for citizen journalism, we only got a handful of photos. Any event that requires talking to people or moveing outside major western population centers? In all likelihood will only be covered by traditional news. If you were really prepared to scrape around a bit I suppose you could argue that indymedia is something of a counter example but even that is somewhat limited. Wikipedia can be argued to be slightly different since it pulls background info from non news sources (books, journals specialist publications) but for info on current events it still very much rides on the back of the traditional news media. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Google Starts Including Wikipedia on Its News Site
2009/6/22 Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com: Interesting. They're attempting to raise money by circulating people saying you should send us money. We should try that. Oh ... Category error. We aren't billing anyone. Donations are a completely different animal. It has been suggested that in some cases at least news organisations should adopt a non profit model. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Internet traffic spikes due to Michael Jackson's death
2009/6/26 Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk: 2009/6/26 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/News_of_Michael_Jackson%27s_death_overloads_Internet_sites_and_sparks_hoaxes Is there anything anywhere (apart from the long thread on ANI) about the effect on traffic for Wikipedia? Ah. Here we go: http://stats.grok.se/en/200906/Michael_Jackson 6.4K hits to to 1.4M. That's a traffic spike right enough. Yeah; for what it's worth, 2300 to UTC was just short of a million hits. Today, I wouldn't be surprised to see it north of four. Once you factored in those going to redirect pages it was about 1.1 million. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Internet traffic spikes due to Michael Jackson's death
2009/6/26 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2009/6/26 Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk: 2009/6/26 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/News_of_Michael_Jackson%27s_death_overloads_Internet_sites_and_sparks_hoaxes Is there anything anywhere (apart from the long thread on ANI) about the effect on traffic for Wikipedia? Ah. Here we go: http://stats.grok.se/en/200906/Michael_Jackson 6.4K hits to to 1.4M. That's a traffic spike right enough. Yeah; for what it's worth, 2300 to UTC was just short of a million hits. Today, I wouldn't be surprised to see it north of four. Once you factored in those going to redirect pages it was about 1.1 million. -- geni 5.9 million total for the day. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] NY Times: Wired Editor Apologizes for Copying from Wikipedia in New Book
2009/6/29 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/6/28 Andrew Turvey andrewrtur...@googlemail.com: Open question: do you think the Foundation and/or local chapters should complain more when their local media fail to respect Wikimedia copyrights? I think actively asking nicely would be a good idea. Particularly when several people ask them. Eventually they will get the idea: FREE STOCK PHOTOS just give credit and licence. Only if you consider CC-BY-SA to be weak copyleft. -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] NY Times: Wired Editor Apologizes for Copying from Wikipedia in New Book
2009/6/29 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: 2009/6/29 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2009/6/29 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: I think actively asking nicely would be a good idea. Particularly when several people ask them. Eventually they will get the idea: FREE STOCK PHOTOS just give credit and licence. Only if you consider CC-BY-SA to be weak copyleft. Do let us know how taking them to court for using your stuff works out. In the UK the case would be extremely unlikely to ever reach court. Due to the way copyright is treated by UK courts unless you are very sure of you case it's almost always cheaper to throw say £50-100 at the person then never use their work again. In practice you can argue it either way. The critical line of the license is: Each constituting separate and independent works in themselves So I suspect it would be fairly easy to defend say a random sports pic as long as you CCed the caption but if the pic is referred to within the article it is a bit hard to see how the article would count as an independent work -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
