RE: [WSG] default place-holders for forms
Hi Andreas, not sure about the article, but we do recommend to our clients that they not use default place holding cahracters. from what i have read on the various accessibility lists, it appears that it is pretty safe to say that the checkpoint is no longer relevant. but i may be wrong.. some relevant list discussions Paul Bohman from webaim was saying its no longer needed back in 02' http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_message.php?id=2113 Updating specs and tools Re: place-holding characters in edit/text boxes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2003JulSep/0399.html with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] default place-holders for forms
I honestly don't know which UA's have problems with inputs without default text, but futher discussion of the WACG 1.0 until user agents.. rules can be found at http://www.juicystudio.com/tutorial/accessibility/interimsolutions.asp The browser that parses out labels is Webbie. Download it and try it out for yourself: http://www.webbie.org.uk/ Placeholder text is still useful in Lynx, and I think using a little js to clear the field on-focus in modern browsers is a great compromise (although I'd attach it as an event rather than coding each individual input field). ./tdw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andreas, not sure about the article, but we do recommend to our clients that they not use default place holding cahracters. from what i have read on the various accessibility lists, it appears that it is pretty safe to say that the checkpoint is no longer relevant. but i may be wrong.. some relevant list discussions Paul Bohman from webaim was saying its no longer needed back in 02' http://www.webaim.org/discussion/mail_message.php?id=2113 Updating specs and tools Re: place-holding characters in edit/text boxes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2003JulSep/0399.html with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Semantic status of images in headers
A client of mine is teaching himself CSS. I took a look at some of his code today (at his request) and saw that while he had set up a hierarchy of headers (h1, h2, h3) in the HTML, he had done no more than put an image inside each of them, with an alt tag. One of them was a white rectangle inside the h1 tag, with an alt=Welcome. My advice to him was that having the h1 tags around images doesn't turn them or their alt tags into proper headers. A text reader will still read the image as an image, and a web crawler won't find the h1 text it's looking for. Then I had a tiny doubt. I thought it conceivable that an alt tag for an image inside an h tag could inherit status from its position. But it doesn't does it? Can anyone confirm what I told him? Example: h2img src=foo.jpg alt=A great big foo. width=40px height=40px //h2 -Hugh Todd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Semantic status of images in headers
Title: RE: [WSG] Semantic status of images in headers Hugh I think you are right. There is some debate about the use of image replacement techniques and how effective they are from a standards perspective. The best technique I have seen was devised by Todd Fahrner and is detailed at Jeffrey Zeldman's A List Apart. Try the following links: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dynatext/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/ http://www.alistapart.com/authors/toddfahrner/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/_javascript_replacement/ and Douglas Bowman has his well respected opinion on the matter here:- http://www.stopdesign.com/articles/replace_text/ HTH Peter -Original Message- From: Hugh Todd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 04 October 2004 08:55 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Semantic status of images in headers A client of mine is teaching himself CSS. I took a look at some of his code today (at his request) and saw that while he had set up a hierarchy of headers (h1, h2, h3) in the HTML, he had done no more than put an image inside each of them, with an alt tag. One of them was a white rectangle inside the h1 tag, with an alt=Welcome. My advice to him was that having the h1 tags around images doesn't turn them or their alt tags into proper headers. A text reader will still read the image as an image, and a web crawler won't find the h1 text it's looking for. Then I had a tiny doubt. I thought it conceivable that an alt tag for an image inside an h tag could inherit status from its position. But it doesn't does it? Can anyone confirm what I told him? Example: h2img src="" alt=A great big foo. width=40px height=40px //h2 -Hugh Todd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] my share of photos form WE04
Enjoy! These are Day 2 photos atm will add the rest soon. http://www.karmakars.com/weblog/archives/2004/10/04/we04gallery -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE 6 Hover Bug?
Return Receipt Your document: [WSG] IE 6 Hover Bug? was received by: Jonathan Cooper/ARTGAL-NSW/AU at: 04/10/2004 09:03:06 PM
Re: [WSG] my share of photos form WE04
Thanks A lot! I wasnt there, so - http://www.karmakars.com/WE04_gallery/window.php?8 - Please explain ??? Amit Karmakar wrote: Enjoy! These are Day 2 photos atm will add the rest soon. http://www.karmakars.com/weblog/archives/2004/10/04/we04gallery -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning
Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/10/2004 10:54:20 AM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Consider this very simple HTML document: ... How could leaving out the doctype make such a definite difference to such a simple page? The crucial part of my answer was: If you know for sure that the markup *is going to be invalid* The example you provide is of valid markup. I tried corrupting the code, but interestingly, on Firefox and Opera, even when the markup is blatantly broken, the doctype keeps the browser in standards mode (or almost-standards mode, as the case may be). Interesting...seems the wrong behaviour to me, but still interesting... Thanks for the clarification. However, I still don't understand WHY a page requires a doctype declaration (in my case HTML 4.0 transitional) just to make a font-size style cascade from body through to td. To recap: here are two pages, identical except for the presence or absence of a doctype declaration: http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/sub/dev/doctype_test/doctype.html http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/sub/dev/doctype_test/no_doctype.html Regards, Jonathan Cooper Manager of Information / Website Art Gallery of New South Wales Sydney, Australia http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Art Gallery of NSW (ABN 24 934 492 575) or its related entities. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] my share of photos form WE04
LOL we had a lot of fun :) Joe was at his best as always ;-) I am updating the images and would have some more to add to the lot and the image folder path problem should be resolved soon. On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 04:25:01 -0700, Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wasnt there, so - http://www.karmakars.com/WE04_gallery/window.php?8 - Please explain ??? Yeah, we need some explanation, don't we? Pleasant looking people, but who are they and why are they in the pix and what are they saying and doing in those pix? Maybe video with audio would be better? Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] floating image
Yes, this is exactly what I am interested in. Thank you for responding and I will try it out.
I also want to thank all of you who have responded to my inquiry, and have set the emails aside.
I haven't had time to try them out, but intend to soon.
Nancy JohnsonLea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:58:51 -0700, Robin Button wrote: How can one have an image on the left with a caption below the image, and text on the right. I don't want to text to float around the image and I don't want to use a table.so you want:xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum caption lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum ?Consider:
caption
lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum css:#captionedImageBlock div {background: url('animage.jpg') no-repeat;padding-top: Npx;float: left;width: Mpx;}#captionedImageBlock p {margin-left: Mpx;}where N is the height of the image and M is the width of the image (plus a little)You'd also want a little bit of spacing around the image, too.(Thank you for asking, I had a need for this on a page and the answer sprang straight into my head when I saw your question :))warmly,Lea-- Lea de GrootElysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/Brisbane, Australia**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledgeTo be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004See
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RE: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning
Title: RE: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning Dear Johnathan I would recommend you read this short article. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/ IMHO the setting of a DOCTYPE is an essential step in the migration to standards based web development. You have a valid point that if you want to simply set a font-family or size attribute for pages, and that is all you want to do, then the doctype you employ is largely irrelevant. But it should be mentioned that it would be unusual in a site's design/re-design, that this is all you want to accomplish with css. To be certain that browsers display the presentational instructions consistently, a doctype is essential to ensure browsers are in 'Standards' mode and not 'quirks' mode. Not all browsers implement the css specification fully. We are still stuck with workarounds where browsers get their interpretation of the rules 'wrong'. Even the major browsers interpret the basic box model differently. Hopefully Mr Zeldman in his article will help make this clear. He always makes perfect sense to me. Peter Goddard Web Developer/IT PSI Global Ltd -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 04 October 2004 12:17 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Patrick H. Lauke Subject: Re: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/10/2004 10:54:20 AM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Consider this very simple HTML document: ... How could leaving out the doctype make such a definite difference to such a simple page? The crucial part of my answer was: If you know for sure that the markup *is going to be invalid* The example you provide is of valid markup. I tried corrupting the code, but interestingly, on Firefox and Opera, even when the markup is blatantly broken, the doctype keeps the browser in standards mode (or almost-standards mode, as the case may be). Interesting...seems the wrong behaviour to me, but still interesting... Thanks for the clarification. However, I still don't understand WHY a page requires a doctype declaration (in my case HTML 4.0 transitional) just to make a font-size style cascade from body through to td. To recap: here are two pages, identical except for the presence or absence of a doctype declaration: http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/sub/dev/doctype_test/doctype.html http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/sub/dev/doctype_test/no_doctype.html Regards, Jonathan Cooper Manager of Information / Website Art Gallery of New South Wales Sydney, Australia http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Art Gallery of NSW (ABN 24 934 492 575) or its related entities. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the clarification. However, I still don't understand WHY a page requires a doctype declaration (in my case HTML 4.0 transitional) just to make a font-size style cascade from body through to td. I believe it's simply that quirks mode follows older browser behavior, where td's did not inherit styles from body, or anything else outside of their table. In standards mode, they do (correctly) inherit the styles. Look at your pages in Win/IE 5 or anything older to see it, regardless of doctype. This was also why, in the bad old days, every single table cell needed its own font tag - there was no way to set the style outside the table and have it be inherited. -- Martin Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning
Peter Goddard wrote on 04/10/2004 11:10:07 PM: I would recommend you read this short article. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/ IMHO the setting of a DOCTYPE is an essential step in the migration to standards based web development. You have a valid point that if you want to simply set a font-family or size attribute for pages, and that is all you want to do, then the doctype you employ is largely irrelevant. But it should be mentioned that it would be unusual in a site's design/re-design, that this is all you want to accomplish with css. To be certain that browsers display the presentational instructions consistently, a doctype is essential to ensure browsers are in 'Standards' mode and not 'quirks' mode. Not all browsers implement the css specification fully. We are still stuck with workarounds where browsers get their interpretation of the rules 'wrong'. Even the major browsers interpret the basic box model differently. Hopefully Mr Zeldman in his article will help make this clear. He always makes perfect sense to me. Thanks, Peter. The article was indeed helpful. I sort of knew what doctypes were for but I didn't realise that something as basic as having text in a table cell inherit a style from the body required a valid doctype. Now I do. :-) The trouble is, the (CMS-driven) website I look after has some pages (or page templates) with an incomplete doctype: !doctype html public -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN ... and most with NO doctype at all! (I didn't build this site, by the way; when it was created, I'd never even HEARD of CSS!) I briefly added the HTML 4.01 Transitional doctype to the main template the other day, but it made the pages almost unreadable (tiny, tiny text), so I had to take it out again. Oh well, looks like I'll have to clone the template, add the doctype and go through the stylesheets bit by bit, checking on the front-end as I go. I'm sure you'll hear from me again. :-/ Regards, Jonathan Cooper Manager of Information / Website Art Gallery of New South Wales Sydney, Australia http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Art Gallery of NSW (ABN 24 934 492 575) or its related entities. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] doctypes, quirks/standards mode and positioning
Martin J. Lambert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/10/2004 11:28:07 PM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the clarification. However, I still don't understand WHY a page requires a doctype declaration (in my case HTML 4.0 transitional) just to make a font-size style cascade from body through to td. I believe it's simply that quirks mode follows older browser behavior, where td's did not inherit styles from body, or anything else outside of their table. In standards mode, they do (correctly) inherit the styles. Look at your pages in Win/IE 5 or anything older to see it, regardless of doctype. This was also why, in the bad old days, every single table cell needed its own font tag - there was no way to set the style outside the table and have it be inherited. Ah ha! That's exactly what I was wanting to know. Thank you very much. Regards, Jonathan Coper Manager of Information / Website Art Gallery of New South Wales Sydney, Australia http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information which may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please advise the sender by return email, do not use or disclose the contents, and delete the message and any attachments from your system. Unless specifically indicated, this email does not constitute formal advice or commitment by the sender or the Art Gallery of NSW (ABN 24 934 492 575) or its related entities. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables, is it Standard?
On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:55:42 -0400, Olajide Olaolorun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I would like to know if Tables is standard. You see, I have been into web standards for some time now nut I still use Tables and would like to know if it is standards Tables are valid HTML, but in the spirit of web standards, they are discouraged for layout. Essentially, if you're marking up the kind of data that you'd find in a spreadsheet, use a table. If you're talking about laying out a page structure, you should look at using CSS positioning instead, there's a lot of advantages. The best tutorial I've found on how CSS positioning works is http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/ - I had it saved on my PDA and read it every morning on the train ride into work for weeks, until it really sank in. Cheers, K. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables, is it Standard?
If you are using data tables, you need to use at least table, tr, th and td and then associate the cells (td's) with headers (th's). Agree. Would be good to also include summary and caption in that list :) Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic status of images in headers
Another thing you might want to consider telling him, and this isn't exactly a web standards issues, is that google may consider this tactic (wrapping a blank white rectangle in h1 tag) to be deceptive and SPAM. On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:55:16 +1000, Hugh Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A client of mine is teaching himself CSS. I took a look at some of his code today (at his request) and saw that while he had set up a hierarchy of headers (h1, h2, h3) in the HTML, he had done no more than put an image inside each of them, with an alt tag. One of them was a white rectangle inside the h1 tag, with an alt=Welcome. -- Clayton Lengel-Zigich http://www.lengelzigich.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Why wont this validate
Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouseriders.dk/kontakt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D%26afstelefon%3D%26afskommentar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why wont this validate
You need to move input type=hidden name=submitted value=1 inside a block level element (in your case, move it into the fieldset which immediately follows it). Also, as it's an empty element, you need to make it self-closing input type=hidden name=submitted value=1 / Patrick -Original Message- From: Kim Kruse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 October 2004 16:54 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Why wont this validate Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouse riders.dk/kontakt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D% 26afstelefon%3D%26afskommentar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why wont this validate
Try and close it meaning input type=blh blh=blh blah=blah / Put the / before the ending and try it On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:54:15 +0200, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouseriders.dk/kontakt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D%26afstelefon%3D%26afskommentar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Personal: www.olajideolaolorun.com www.empirex.net Business: www.tripleolabs.com www.tripleostudios.com www.tripleo.biz Projects: www.uniformserver.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why wont this validate
You need to close your input tags... input type=foo name=bar id=foobar / You're missing the / part at the end. On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:54:15 +0200, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouseriders.dk/kontakt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D%26afstelefon%3D%26afskommentar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Clayton Lengel-Zigich http://www.lengelzigich.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why wont this validate
Hello, One thing I noticed is that your hidden input field isn't closed (like for img and br): input / cameron. Kim Kruse wrote: Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouseriders.dk/kontakt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D%26afstelefon%3D%26afskommentar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Why wont this validate
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Kruse Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 11:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Why wont this validate Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouseriders.dk/kont akt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D%26afstelefon%3D%26afskomm entar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim This almost certainly isn't the actual error. This is just the point at which the validator was unable to manage any longer. It would help to have the code and the css. drew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why wont this validate
Having a look I think its because you are validating against xhtml strict but haven't closed the hidden input field. You have input ... rather than input ... /, in xhtml all tags have to be closed, including stand alone ones line input or hr. Hope that helps Gareth On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 16:54, Kim Kruse wrote: Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouseriders.dk/kontakt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D%26afstelefon%3D%26afskommentar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Recall: [WSG] Why wont this validate
Trusz, Andrew would like to recall the message, [WSG] Why wont this validate. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Why wont this validate
Wow that was fast... and I've been struggling with this for the last 2 hours. I have things to learn :o) There where as Patrick and others wrote 2 problems. The missing closing tag and the hidden fields should be wrapped in an block element. In this case p tags as moving the hidden field into the field set made the legend tag stretch across the field set. Problem solved and a lesson learned. Thank you all. Kim Patrick Lauke wrote: You need to move input type=hidden name=submitted value=1 inside a block level element (in your case, move it into the fieldset which immediately follows it). Also, as it's an empty element, you need to make it self-closing input type=hidden name=submitted value=1 / Patrick -Original Message- From: Kim Kruse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 October 2004 16:54 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Why wont this validate Hi, I'm doing server side validating on a form and I get some errors I'm not able to decrypt. So if someone have the time to take a look here http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A//www.mouse riders.dk/kontakt.php%3Fsubmitted%3D1%26afsnavn%3D%26afsemail%3D% 26afstelefon%3D%26afskommentar%3D and please tell me what the errors means. I don t understand why a hidden field should be wrapped in p tags for instance? Please be patient... I'm learning :o) Kim ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE topnav problems
I am stumped on this issue. Our top nav has a simple tab setup. It looks proper in firefox, there should be a thin white line separating the top nav from the subnav. In IE, there appears to be 2px of bottom padding or margin on the top nav and it is hiding the white line. I've tried all sorts of arrangements for this and cannot find a solution. Here's an appropriate example: http://tcdpc:8100/csa/help.do Here's the appropriate css: http://tcdpc:8100/csa/css/nav.css I've got a hack I can add to fillup some of the space but I'd rather get it to work properly. I've got a launch date of tuesday so any help out there is much appreciated. Thanks Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE topnav problems
Um, local machines won't work out here! P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Drake Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] IE topnav problems I am stumped on this issue. Our top nav has a simple tab setup. It looks proper in firefox, there should be a thin white line separating the top nav from the subnav. In IE, there appears to be 2px of bottom padding or margin on the top nav and it is hiding the white line. I've tried all sorts of arrangements for this and cannot find a solution. Here's an appropriate example: http://tcdpc:8100/csa/help.do Here's the appropriate css: http://tcdpc:8100/csa/css/nav.css I've got a hack I can add to fillup some of the space but I'd rather get it to work properly. I've got a launch date of tuesday so any help out there is much appreciated. Thanks Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE topnav problems
brainfart time Here are the right addresses http://v4.csatravelprotection.com/csa/help.do and css http://v4.csatravelprotection.com/csa/css/nav.css Thanks for pointing that out. Ted -Original Message- From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 9:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] IE topnav problems Um, local machines won't work out here! P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Drake Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] IE topnav problems I am stumped on this issue. Our top nav has a simple tab setup. It looks proper in firefox, there should be a thin white line separating the top nav from the subnav. In IE, there appears to be 2px of bottom padding or margin on the top nav and it is hiding the white line. I've tried all sorts of arrangements for this and cannot find a solution. Here's an appropriate example: http://tcdpc:8100/csa/help.do Here's the appropriate css: http://tcdpc:8100/csa/css/nav.css I've got a hack I can add to fillup some of the space but I'd rather get it to work properly. I've got a launch date of tuesday so any help out there is much appreciated. Thanks Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] OL or UL? It´s rigth?
Hello, My friend is asking me if i can use tags ul ol/ol /ul can i validate that? its semantic correct? Thanks; Marky Pop.
Re: [WSG] OL or UL? It´s rigth?
Hi Marky, My friend is asking me if i can use tags ul ol/ol /ul No, you can't. Unordered lists can only have list items as child elements. Cheers, Andrew Taumoefolau ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] be-nice-to-IE/MAC @media rule
Recently I posted a shorter be-nice-to-IE/MAC @media hack to another list.
There was an issue with the modified rule (and original rule using the
tantek hack) where the rules following the @media declaration were
delivered to NN4.
I have since developed this one line alternative which ensures only v5+
browser get rules inside an @media declaration:
/* rules for basic browsers */
@media screen,projection
{
/*\{*//*}*/
/* rules for advanced browsers */
}
My motivation for working on this hack is so I can deliver styles to
basic and advanced browsers with one stylesheet via a link. I wanted
to use link as it is easier to get at with javascript IMHO, than style.
Hope someone finds it useful.
./tdw
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] javascript validation question
I'm having trouble getting a page to validate as xhtml 1.0 transitional. http://v4.csavg40.com/csa/preparequote.do It doesn't like this series of javascript stuff input type=text name=departdate size=25 tabindex=5 value=mm/dd/ onkeydown=if(event.keyCode==9self.gfPop)gfPop.fHideCal(); onfocus=if(self.gfPop)gfPop.fPopCalendar(document.PurchaseForm.departdate);return false; id=departdate / It's for a calendar that pops up on an input field. Are there any javascript experts that can tell me how this doesn't live up to standards? Thank you Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] javascript validation question
It's an XHTML issue...here the validation report from BBEdit: Value of attribute onkeydown for element input is invalid; Value needs entity encoding (if(event.keyCode==9amp;amp;self.gfPop)gfPop.fHideCal();). On 5/10/04 10:12 AM, Ted Drake wrote: I'm having trouble getting a page to validate as xhtml 1.0 transitional. http://v4.csavg40.com/csa/preparequote.do It doesn't like this series of javascript stuff input type=text name=departdate size=25 tabindex=5 value=mm/dd/ onkeydown=if(event.keyCode==9self.gfPop)gfPop.fHideCal(); onfocus=if(self.gfPop)gfPop.fPopCalendar(document.PurchaseForm.departdate);return false; id=departdate / It's for a calendar that pops up on an input field. Are there any javascript experts that can tell me how this doesn't live up to standards? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] javascript validation question
Ted Drake wrote: I'm having trouble getting a page to validate as xhtml 1.0 transitional. http://v4.csavg40.com/csa/preparequote.do It doesn't like this series of javascript stuff input type=text name=departdate size=25 tabindex=5 value=mm/dd/ onkeydown=if(event.keyCode==9self.gfPop)gfPop.fHideCal(); onfocus=if(self.gfPop)gfPop.fPopCalendar(document.PurchaseForm.departdate);return false; id=departdate / It's for a calendar that pops up on an input field. Are there any javascript experts that can tell me how this doesn't live up to standards? Its the replace them with amp;amp; Thank you Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] javascript validation question
Thanks I also found that I needed to have a space between the properties, 9 self instead of 9self or better yet 9 amp;amp; self. Thank you for the quick help Ted -Original Message- From: Terrence Wood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 2:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] javascript validation question It's an XHTML issue...here the validation report from BBEdit: Value of attribute onkeydown for element input is invalid; Value needs entity encoding (if(event.keyCode==9amp;amp;self.gfPop)gfPop.fHideCal();). On 5/10/04 10:12 AM, Ted Drake wrote: I'm having trouble getting a page to validate as xhtml 1.0 transitional. http://v4.csavg40.com/csa/preparequote.do It doesn't like this series of javascript stuff input type=text name=departdate size=25 tabindex=5 value=mm/dd/ onkeydown=if(event.keyCode==9self.gfPop)gfPop.fHideCal(); onfocus=if(self.gfPop)gfPop.fPopCalendar(document.PurchaseForm.departdate);return false; id=departdate / It's for a calendar that pops up on an input field. Are there any javascript experts that can tell me how this doesn't live up to standards? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions
The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed the issue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing this problem. You may be after tagged pdf's: http://www.planetpdf.com/enterprise/article.asp?ContentID=6067 http://www.webaim.org/techniques/acrobat/ (links straight from Google) You may have noticed that the subject of pdf's was quite explosive at WE04. Some believe that PDF's should be avoided where-ever possible, while others believe that if you make pdf's as accessible as possible then you have done you bit. Bruce Maguire (HEROC) believes that currently developers should try to provide pdf content in some other form - such as html. HTH Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] OL or UL? It´s rigth?
On Tuesday, Oct 5, 2004, at 05:33 Australia/Sydney, Manuel González Noriega wrote: Genau Junior wrote: Hello, My friend is asking me if i can use tags ul ol/ol /ul No. Make it ul li ol liLong live lists!/li /ol /ul Close, but no cigar. Make that ul liI love nested lists! ol liBut close that li tag!/li /ol /li /ul N ;-) ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions
Thanks Russ, for the quick reply. The link you sent is quite informative but as Bruce Maguire also believes, do you know of any GOOD PDF to HTML converters ? Regards Bhuvnesh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Tuesday, 5 October 2004 08:50 To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed the issue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing this problem. You may be after tagged pdf's: http://www.planetpdf.com/enterprise/article.asp?ContentID=6067 http://www.webaim.org/techniques/acrobat/ (links straight from Google) You may have noticed that the subject of pdf's was quite explosive at WE04. Some believe that PDF's should be avoided where-ever possible, while others believe that if you make pdf's as accessible as possible then you have done you bit. Bruce Maguire (HEROC) believes that currently developers should try to provide pdf content in some other form - such as html. HTH Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** * This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for the named addressee and could contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any dissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited. Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intended recipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments. This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computer viruses. * ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions
Hi Bhuvnesh, I don't know if this may suit your needs, but google's search results for PDF's also provides a html version of the PDF. On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:37:15 +1000, CHAUDHRY, Bhuvnesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed the issue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing this problem. Does anyone have ideas about the tools in market to convert PDF into HTML or any other ways to make the PDF files accessible. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks Bhuvnesh Chaudhry * This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for the named addressee and could contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any dissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited. Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intended recipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments. This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computer viruses. * ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions
Bhuvnesh, Try this also, http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.html#plugins On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:38:44 +1000, Andrew Ivin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bhuvnesh, I don't know if this may suit your needs, but google's search results for PDF's also provides a html version of the PDF. On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:37:15 +1000, CHAUDHRY, Bhuvnesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed the issue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing this problem. Does anyone have ideas about the tools in market to convert PDF into HTML or any other ways to make the PDF files accessible. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks Bhuvnesh Chaudhry * This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for the named addressee and could contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any dissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited. Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intended recipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments. This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computer viruses. * ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://karmakars.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] OL or UL? It´s rigth?
Yes you can http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html section 10.2 see DEPRECATED EXAMPLE: ~parker On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:46:20 +1000, Andrew Sione Taumoefolau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Marky, My friend is asking me if i can use tags ul ol/ol /ul No, you can't. Unordered lists can only have list items as child elements. Cheers, Andrew Taumoefolau ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re:_[WSG]_OL_or_UL? _It´s_rigth?
At 05:19 PM 10/4/2004, Parker Torrence wrote: Yes you can http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html section 10.2 see DEPRECATED EXAMPLE: which is: UL LI ... Level one, number one... OL LI ... Level two, number one... LI ... Level two, number two... OL start=10 LI ... Level three, number one... /OL LI ... Level two, number three... /OL LI ... Level one, number two... /UL It's my understanding that the LI tags remain open until closed either explicitly with /li or implicitly by the next li or the final /ul or /ol. Because this example is HTML, not XHTML, and the LI tags are not explicitly closed, I believe that the OLs in that example are embedded in fact in the LIs and not the UL/OL elements. The same is true of the old-fashioned table markup. If you saw this: table tr tdHere is a pparagraph tdHere's another cell /table ...would you say the paragraph was embedded in the TD, the TR, or the TABLE? It's in the TD, of course. Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Hi guys,
I'm putting together a semantically correct UL of links for my
footer.
I'd like to have them separated by 'pipes' as this is a common
and easily recognised technique.
But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So
here's what I've come up with...
ALSO! My one thing is that if the text inside the links is
made up of two or more words, then they get pushed to separate lines. Is there a
way to avoid this without specifyinga width or without putting a 'no
broken spaces' between the words?
Can you suggest anything better?
style type="text/css"#footer
{text-align: center; }#footer ul li {display:
inline; width: 1px; margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left:
1px solid #00; line-height: 120%; }#footer ul
li:first-child { border-left: none; }/* Not rendered by a few agents, so
we'll use the 'footerBorderKill' _javascript_ function switches off the first
child's left border *//style
div id="footer" ul id
="contentLinks" lia href=""
title="Link 1" accesskey="1"link/a/li
lia href="" title="Link 2" accesskey="2"link with
multiple words/a/li lia
href="" title="Link 3"
accesskey="3"link/a/li lia
href="" title="Link 4"
accesskey="4"linknbsp;withnbsp;NoBrokenSpaces/a/li
lia href="" title="Link 5"
accesskey="5"link/a/li /ul
ul id="validationLinks" lia
href="" rel="external" title="Check
XHTML"xhtml/a/li lia
href="" rel="external"
title="Check CSS"css/a/li
lia href=""
rel="external" title="View license"cc/a/li
/ul/div
script type="text/_javascript_"//![CDATA[//
Kills the Left Border on the Footer Navigationfunction footerBorderKill()
{myBody=document.getElementById('footer');myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName("ul");
// Gets all the UL elements that are children of 'footer'for( var i =
0; i myBodyElements.length; i++ )
{myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs in
the footermyListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName("li"); //
Gets all the LI elements that are children of the
ULsmyLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of the
list of LI elementsmyLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; // And sets
its border to nothing}}window.>//]]/script
Re: [WSG] OL or UL? It´s rigth?
On Tuesday, Oct 5, 2004, at 10:19 Australia/Sydney, Parker Torrence wrote: Yes you can http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html section 10.2 see DEPRECATED EXAMPLE: ~parker OK, maybe so... but deprecated means it's not a good idea to use it (just because it 'works' doesn't mean you should). Whether you're using HTML4 or XHTML, it's simply a good idea to close all tags. This is what's known as 'well-formed markup' - and is definitely best practice. N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Re: Re:_[WSG]_OL_or_UL? _It´s_rigth?
Thank you everybody. Paul, Torrence, Nick and others . I understood the semantic order. - Original Message - From: Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 9:54 PM Subject: Re:_[WSG]_OL_or_UL? _It´s_rigth? At 05:19 PM 10/4/2004, Parker Torrence wrote: Yes you can http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html section 10.2 see DEPRECATED EXAMPLE: which is: UL LI ... Level one, number one... OL LI ... Level two, number one... LI ... Level two, number two... OL start=10 LI ... Level three, number one... /OL LI ... Level two, number three... /OL LI ... Level one, number two... /UL It's my understanding that the LI tags remain open until closed either explicitly with /li or implicitly by the next li or the final /ul or /ol. Because this example is HTML, not XHTML, and the LI tags are not explicitly closed, I believe that the OLs in that example are embedded in fact in the LIs and not the UL/OL elements. The same is true of the old-fashioned table markup. If you saw this: table tr tdHere is a pparagraph tdHere's another cell /table ...would you say the paragraph was embedded in the TD, the TR, or the TABLE? It's in the TD, of course. Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/7/2004 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Left and right: inline content...
Hi all. I'm trying to do something which I know is easy with tables, but of course,
that's not my first preference. Basically, it's a footer line with an ABN number (for
non-Australians, a business registration number) on the left, and an unordered list on
the right with validation links, an accessibility policy link, etc.
I want it to look like this:
_
|ABN 72797798055 |XHTML|CSS|Accessibility|Top|
|_|
Markup currently goes:
div id=footerABN 72797798055
ul id=standardsline
lia href=http://validator.w3c.org/check/referer;XHTML/a/li
lia href=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer;CSS/a/li
lia href=/accessibility/Accessibility/a/li
lia href=#body title=Back to topTop/a/li
/ul
/div
And the CSS:
#footer {clear:both;text-align:left;}
#standardsline {float:right;display:inline;}
#standardsline li {display:inline;list-style-type:none;}
I've stripped irrelevant (presentation aside from layout) CSS from that, and the
display:inline in #standards line is probably unnecessary -- That's just me trying to
get it to work.
Currently, it's displaying like this:
_
|ABN 72797798055 |
|_|XHTML|CSS|Accessibility|Top|
which sucks. Well, not completely, but it's not how I want it to look.
Any suggestions?
Joshua Street
base10solutions
winmail.dat
Re: [WSG] Left and right: inline content...
Joshua,
Try putting the ABN in a p tag, giving it a width (in ems) and floating
it left. You will also need to give your ul a width.
It's easier to see what's going on if you give your elements background
colours (temporarily).
-Hugh Todd
Hi all. I'm trying to do something which I know is easy with tables,
but of course, that's not my first preference. Basically, it's a
footer line with an ABN number (for non-Australians, a business
registration number) on the left, and an unordered list on the right
with validation links, an accessibility policy link, etc.
I want it to look like this:
___
__
|ABN 72797798055
|XHTML|CSS|Accessibility|Top|
|__
___|
Markup currently goes:
div id=footerABN 72797798055
ul id=standardsline
lia href=http://validator.w3c.org/check/referer;XHTML/a/li
lia
href=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer;CSS/a/li
lia href=/accessibility/Accessibility/a/li
lia href=#body title=Back to topTop/a/li
/ul
/div
And the CSS:
#footer {clear:both;text-align:left;}
#standardsline {float:right;display:inline;}
#standardsline li {display:inline;list-style-type:none;}
I've stripped irrelevant (presentation aside from layout) CSS from
that, and the display:inline in #standards line is probably
unnecessary -- That's just me trying to get it to work.
Currently, it's displaying like this:
___
__
|ABN 72797798055
|
|_|XHTML|CSS|Accessibility|
Top|
which sucks. Well, not completely, but it's not how I want it to look.
Any suggestions?
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for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Title: Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
For the line wrapping issue, you could try:
whitespace: nowrap;
On whatever element is giving you trouble.
Cheers,
Kevin Futter
On 5/10/04 11:28 AM, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm putting together a semantically correct UL of links for my footer.
I'd like to have them separated by 'pipes' as this is a common and easily recognised technique.
But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So here's what I've come up with...
ALSO! My one thing is that if the text inside the links is made up of two or more words, then they get pushed to separate lines. Is there a way to avoid this without specifying a width or without putting a 'no broken spaces' between the words?
Can you suggest anything better?
style type=text/css
#footer {
text-align: center;
}
#footer ul li {
display: inline; width: 1px;
margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid #00;
line-height: 120%;
}
#footer ul li:first-child { border-left: none; }
/* Not rendered by a few agents, so we'll use the 'footerBorderKill' _javascript_ function switches off the first child's left border */
/style
div id=footer
ul id =contentLinks
lia href="" title=Link 1 accesskey=1link/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 2 accesskey=2link with multiple words/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 3 accesskey=3link/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 4 accesskey=4linknbsp;withnbsp;NoBrokenSpaces/a/li
lia href="" title=Link 5 accesskey=5link/a/li
/ul
ul id=validationLinks
lia href="" href="http://validator.w3.org/check/referer">http://validator.w3.org/check/referer rel=external title=Check XHTMLxhtml/a/li
lia href="" href="http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer rel=external title=Check CSScss/a/li
lia href="" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/ rel=external title=View licensecc/a/li
/ul
/div
script type=text/_javascript_//![CDATA[
// Kills the Left Border on the Footer Navigation
function footerBorderKill() {
myBody=document.getElementById('footer');
myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName(ul); // Gets all the UL elements that are children of 'footer'
for( var i = 0; i myBodyElements.length; i++ ) {
myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs in the footer
myListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName(li); // Gets all the LI elements that are children of the ULs
myLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of the list of LI elements
myLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; // And sets its border to nothing
}
}
window.>
//]]/script
Re: [WSG] Left and right: inline content...
Hi Joshua,
try wrapping the abn in p.
#footer {clear: both;}
#footer p {float:left;}
#footer ul {float: right;}
#footer li {display:inline;}
Joe
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:49:01 +1000, Joshua Street
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all. I'm trying to do something which I know is easy with tables, but of course,
that's not my first preference. Basically, it's a footer line with an ABN number
(for non-Australians, a business registration number) on the left, and an unordered
list on the right with validation links, an accessibility policy link, etc.
I want it to look like this:
_
|ABN 72797798055 |XHTML|CSS|Accessibility|Top|
|_|
Markup currently goes:
div id=footerABN 72797798055
ul id=standardsline
lia href=http://validator.w3c.org/check/referer;XHTML/a/li
lia href=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer;CSS/a/li
lia href=/accessibility/Accessibility/a/li
lia href=#body title=Back to topTop/a/li
/ul
/div
And the CSS:
#footer {clear:both;text-align:left;}
#standardsline {float:right;display:inline;}
#standardsline li {display:inline;list-style-type:none;}
I've stripped irrelevant (presentation aside from layout) CSS from that, and the
display:inline in #standards line is probably unnecessary -- That's just me trying
to get it to work.
Currently, it's displaying like this:
_
|ABN 72797798055 |
|_|XHTML|CSS|Accessibility|Top|
which sucks. Well, not completely, but it's not how I want it to look.
Any suggestions?
Joshua Street
base10solutions
--
Gmail invites - just ask nicely
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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**
Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Title: Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Sure but this only works on, like, two browsers!
Is there a funckier CSS hack kind of way?
:o)
Richard
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Futter
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:02
PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantically creating
'pipes' for footer links
For the line wrapping issue, you could
try:whitespace: nowrap;On whatever element is giving you
trouble.Cheers,Kevin FutterOn 5/10/04 11:28 AM, "Richard
Czeiger" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi guys,I'm putting together a
semantically correct UL of links for my footer.I'd like to have them
separated by 'pipes' as this is a common and easily recognised
technique.But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So
here's what I've come up with...ALSO! My one thing is that if
the text inside the links is made up of two or more words, then they get
pushed to separate lines. Is there a way to avoid this without specifying a
width or without putting a 'no broken spaces' between the words?Can you
suggest anything better?style
type="text/css"#footer {text-align: center;
}#footer ul li {display: inline; width: 1px;
margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid
#00; line-height: 120%; }#footer ul li:first-child {
border-left: none; }/* Not rendered by a few agents, so we'll use the
'footerBorderKill' _javascript_ function switches off the first child's left
border *//stylediv
id="footer"ul id
="contentLinks"lia
href="" title="Link 1"
accesskey="1"link/a/lilia
href="" title="Link 2" accesskey="2"link with multiple
words/a/lilia
href="" title="Link 3"
accesskey="3"link/a/lilia
href="" title="Link 4"
accesskey="4"linknbsp;withnbsp;NoBrokenSpaces/a/lilia
href="" title="Link 5"
accesskey="5"link/a/li/ulul
id="validationLinks"lia href=""http://validator.w3.org/check/referer">http://validator.w3.org/check/referer"
rel="external" title="Check
XHTML"xhtml/a/lilia
href=""http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer">http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer"
rel="external" title="Check
CSS"css/a/lilia
href=""http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/">http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/"
rel="external" title="View
license"cc/a/li/ul/divscript
type="text/_javascript_"//![CDATA[// Kills the Left Border on the
Footer Navigationfunction footerBorderKill()
{myBody=document.getElementById('footer');myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName("ul");
// Gets all the UL elements that are children of 'footer'for( var
i = 0; i myBodyElements.length; i++ )
{myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs
in the
footermyListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName("li"); //
Gets all the LI elements that are children of the
ULsmyLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of
the list of LI elementsmyLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; //
And sets its border to nothing}}window.>//]]/script
Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
The method your using looks similar to the one described on A List Apart
www.a*list**apart*.com/articles/taming*list*s/ ?? or it could have come
from http://glazkov.com/blog/articles/CssPipedList.aspx
I have an example at http://hamilton.id.au/temp/pipedlist.html using
multiple words per item.
Ben Hamilton.
Richard Czeiger wrote:
Sure but this only works on, like, two browsers!
Is there a funckier CSS hack kind of way?
:o)
Richard
- Original Message -
*From:* Kevin Futter mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:02 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
For the line wrapping issue, you could try:
whitespace: nowrap;
On whatever element is giving you trouble.
Cheers,
Kevin Futter
On 5/10/04 11:28 AM, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm putting together a semantically correct UL of links for my
footer.
I'd like to have them separated by 'pipes' as this is a common
and easily recognised technique.
But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So
here's what I've come up with...
ALSO! My one thing is that if the text inside the links is
made up of two or more words, then they get pushed to separate
lines. Is there a way to avoid this without specifying a width
or without putting a 'no broken spaces' between the words?
Can you suggest anything better?
style type=text/css
#footer {
text-align: center;
}
#footer ul li {
display: inline; width: 1px;
margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid
#00;
line-height: 120%;
}
#footer ul li:first-child { border-left: none; }
/* Not rendered by a few agents, so we'll use the
'footerBorderKill' javascript function switches off the first
child's left border */
/style
div id=footer
ul id =contentLinks
lia href=link1.html title=Link 1
accesskey=1link/a/li
lia href=link2.html title=Link 2 accesskey=2link
with multiple words/a/li
lia href=link3.html title=Link 3
accesskey=3link/a/li
lia href=link4.html title=Link 4
accesskey=4linknbsp;withnbsp;NoBrokenSpaces/a/li
lia href=link5.html title=Link 5
accesskey=5link/a/li
/ul
ul id=validationLinks
lia href=http://validator.w3.org/check/referer;
rel=external title=Check XHTMLxhtml/a/li
lia
href=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer;
rel=external title=Check CSScss/a/li
lia
href=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/;
rel=external title=View licensecc/a/li
/ul
/div
script type=text/javascript//![CDATA[
// Kills the Left Border on the Footer Navigation
function footerBorderKill() {
myBody=document.getElementById('footer');
myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName(ul); // Gets all
the UL elements that are children of 'footer'
for( var i = 0; i myBodyElements.length; i++ ) {
myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs
in the footer
myListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName(li); // Gets
all the LI elements that are children of the ULs
myLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of the
list of LI elements
myLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; // And sets its border to
nothing
}
}
window.onload = footerBorderKill;
//]]/script
--
Ben Hamilton
0410 460 333
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Richard
See how I display the pipes on the horizontal menu at www.bhatt.id.au
using css borders.
the list itself has a border-left, and all list items have a border-right
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
Richard Czeiger wrote:
Sure but this only works on, like, two browsers!
Is there a funckier CSS hack kind of way?
:o)
Richard
- Original Message -
*From:* Kevin Futter mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:02 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
For the line wrapping issue, you could try:
whitespace: nowrap;
On whatever element is giving you trouble.
Cheers,
Kevin Futter
On 5/10/04 11:28 AM, Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi guys,
I'm putting together a semantically correct UL of links for my
footer.
I'd like to have them separated by 'pipes' as this is a common
and easily recognised technique.
But the pipes themselves are irrelevant (semantically). So
here's what I've come up with...
ALSO! My one thing is that if the text inside the links is made
up of two or more words, then they get pushed to separate lines.
Is there a way to avoid this without specifying a width or
without putting a 'no broken spaces' between the words?
Can you suggest anything better?
style type=text/css
#footer {
text-align: center;
}
#footer ul li {
display: inline; width: 1px;
margin: auto 5px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid
#00;
line-height: 120%;
}
#footer ul li:first-child { border-left: none; }
/* Not rendered by a few agents, so we'll use the
'footerBorderKill' javascript function switches off the first
child's left border */
/style
div id=footer
ul id =contentLinks
lia href=link1.html title=Link 1
accesskey=1link/a/li
lia href=link2.html title=Link 2 accesskey=2link
with multiple words/a/li
lia href=link3.html title=Link 3
accesskey=3link/a/li
lia href=link4.html title=Link 4
accesskey=4linknbsp;withnbsp;NoBrokenSpaces/a/li
lia href=link5.html title=Link 5
accesskey=5link/a/li
/ul
ul id=validationLinks
lia href=http://validator.w3.org/check/referer;
rel=external title=Check XHTMLxhtml/a/li
lia
href=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/check/referer;
rel=external title=Check CSScss/a/li
lia
href=http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/;
rel=external title=View licensecc/a/li
/ul
/div
script type=text/javascript//![CDATA[
// Kills the Left Border on the Footer Navigation
function footerBorderKill() {
myBody=document.getElementById('footer');
myBodyElements=myBody.getElementsByTagName(ul); // Gets all
the UL elements that are children of 'footer'
for( var i = 0; i myBodyElements.length; i++ ) {
myList=myBodyElements.item(i); // Loops through all the ULs in
the footer
myListElements=myList.getElementsByTagName(li); // Gets all
the LI elements that are children of the ULs
myLI=myListElements.item(0); // Gets the first item of the
list of LI elements
myLI.style.borderLeft = 'none'; // And sets its border to nothing
}
}
window.onload = footerBorderKill;
//]]/script
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] be-nice-to-IE/MAC @media rule
Hi Terrence This does indeed look like it could be useful, could you show an example in context? Eg with rules above and below for people like me who need it a little clearer? Thanks so much. Natalie -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
Hi Guys, I have just joined the list after attending WE04. My name is Todd Baker and I work as a XSLT/XHTML/CSS developer in Sydney. I am doing a big CSS based rebuild for one of our clients and am having some troubles with our fluid layout. I want to use horizontal lists for our primary navigation but the designs requires that the nav items are fluid, i.e. the gap between them grows and contracts with the browser width. I have based the nav on this -- http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/horizontal16.htm but after playing with % width's and margin's Im still not there. Has anyone solved the same problem else where and has some tips to help me? Thanks in advance. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
I have to say I'd use an extra class on the first li over that big chunk o' Javascript any day. Apart from the extra code, what if I have Javascript disabled? My 2c... N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ On Tuesday, Oct 5, 2004, at 13:55 Australia/Sydney, Richard Czeiger wrote: Thanks for the feedback guys but the problem persists ! :o) While Neerav's solution puts pipes before the first and after the last - I am trying to get rid of these so that it looks like this: link | link | link | link and NOT | link | link | link | link | see? Ben's solution requires a separate class attached to the first list item. Again - this is kind of clunky when you're trying to work with the best possible form of an inherited cascade. That's why I used the JavaScript to kill the first LI in each UL in the footer - at least until the pseudo class firstChild is implemented by browsers. Also the Taming Lists article looses it's styling for IE 5 and above (same with the Practical CSS Layout Tips article). Anyone else? Richard :o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
just a quick thought that may be completely wrong, but have you tried % based padding for li ? Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Todd Baker wrote: Hi Guys, I have just joined the list after attending WE04. My name is Todd Baker and I work as a XSLT/XHTML/CSS developer in Sydney. I am doing a big CSS based rebuild for one of our clients and am having some troubles with our fluid layout. I want to use horizontal lists for our primary navigation but the designs requires that the nav items are fluid, i.e. the gap between them grows and contracts with the browser width. I have based the nav on this -- http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/horizontal16.htm but after playing with % width's and margin's Im still not there. Has anyone solved the same problem else where and has some tips to help me? Thanks in advance. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Hi Richard Ben's solution requires a separate class attached to the first list item. Again - this is kind of clunky when you're trying to work with the best possible form of an inherited cascade. That's why I used the JavaScript to kill the first LI in each UL in the footer - at least until the pseudo class firstChild is implemented by browsers. To me, adding something like: class=FirstItem to a couple of elements is much less clunky than adding a dozen or so lines of JavaScript that may or may not work, depending on browser settings. I'd only use JavaScript as a very last resort Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design www.bwdzine.com Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links
Good point - I guess I might settle for Neerav's option and have the pipes at the beginning and the end phooey! wish i could've gotten a solution to that one :o( that's for eveyone's input though... Richard - Original Message - From: Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantically creating 'pipes' for footer links I have to say I'd use an extra class on the first li over that big chunk o' Javascript any day. Apart from the extra code, what if I have Javascript disabled? My 2c... N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ On Tuesday, Oct 5, 2004, at 13:55 Australia/Sydney, Richard Czeiger wrote: Thanks for the feedback guys but the problem persists ! :o) While Neerav's solution puts pipes before the first and after the last - I am trying to get rid of these so that it looks like this: link | link | link | link and NOT | link | link | link | link | see? Ben's solution requires a separate class attached to the first list item. Again - this is kind of clunky when you're trying to work with the best possible form of an inherited cascade. That's why I used the JavaScript to kill the first LI in each UL in the footer - at least until the pseudo class firstChild is implemented by browsers. Also the Taming Lists article looses it's styling for IE 5 and above (same with the Practical CSS Layout Tips article). Anyone else? Richard :o) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
Nup - collapses in IE :o( Richard - Original Message - From: Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists just a quick thought that may be completely wrong, but have you tried % based padding for li ? Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Todd Baker wrote: Hi Guys, I have just joined the list after attending WE04. My name is Todd Baker and I work as a XSLT/XHTML/CSS developer in Sydney. I am doing a big CSS based rebuild for one of our clients and am having some troubles with our fluid layout. I want to use horizontal lists for our primary navigation but the designs requires that the nav items are fluid, i.e. the gap between them grows and contracts with the browser width. I have based the nav on this -- http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/horizontal16.htm but after playing with % width's and margin's Im still not there. Has anyone solved the same problem else where and has some tips to help me? Thanks in advance. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:20:24 +1000, Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just a quick thought that may be completely wrong, but have you tried % based padding for li ? Thanks Neerav, Same thing.. I have to use VERY small % (like 1%) or it spreads out HUGE and then it hardly expands at all as the browser grows. Ive gotta find some solution or ill have to revert back to table cells :( ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Semantics vs Light Code
Recent discussions about building a footer with numerous linked items styled as an unordered list has got me thinking about correct semantics verses light code/css. In using strictly correct semantics to mark-up content I think sometimes we run the risk of developing over complicated and bloated code. Building an inline, styled un-ordered list with appropriate css can add a bit of bulk to your css. So on one hand there's smaller file sizes, uncomplicated CSS (with fewer hacks) but imperfect semantics, and on the other there's perfect semantics bloated CSS with a few hacks thrown in for good measure. Where does one draw the line? Luke Moulton Go4 Multimedia Web Design Graphic Design www.go4.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
Todd,
If you turn the 'a's into block elements and float them left, adding no
padding or border, you can give them widths of 20% and have them span
the page.
#nav ul li a
{
padding: .2em 0;
display: block;
float: left;
width: 20%;
}
Of course, this means you lose your dividers. If you add them, you will
have to reduce your width amount to something less than 20%. And,
because min-width doesn't work in IE, your navigation bar will wrap
when window size is reduced too far.
-Hugh Todd
Ive gotta find some solution or ill have to revert back to table cells
:(
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
I did something like that for a project. From memory I ended up using something
like this (it had three items):
ul {
padding:0;
margin:0;
}
li {
display: inline;
list-style:none;
padding:0;
margin:0;
}
a {
width:33%;
float:left;
display:block;
text-align:center;
}
Jake
Quoting Richard Czeiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Nup - collapses in IE :o(
Richard
- Original Message -
From: Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
just a quick thought that may be completely wrong, but have you tried %
based padding for li ?
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27
http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav
Todd Baker wrote:
Hi Guys,
I have just joined the list after attending WE04.
My name is Todd Baker and I work as a XSLT/XHTML/CSS developer in Sydney.
I am doing a big CSS based rebuild for one of our clients and am
having some troubles with our fluid layout.
I want to use horizontal lists for our primary navigation but the
designs requires that the nav items are fluid, i.e. the gap between
them grows and contracts with the browser width.
I have based the nav on this --
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/horizontal16.htm but after
playing with % width's and margin's Im still not there.
Has anyone solved the same problem else where and has some tips to help
me?
Thanks in advance.
**
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Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
I've found adding dividers in the form of borders are more trouble than they are
worth in liquid horizontal lists. One solution is to put the dividers in as 1px
wide background images rather than left or right borders.
Jake
Quoting Hugh Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Todd,
If you turn the 'a's into block elements and float them left, adding no
padding or border, you can give them widths of 20% and have them span
the page.
#nav ul li a
{
padding: .2em 0;
display: block;
float: left;
width: 20%;
}
Of course, this means you lose your dividers. If you add them, you will
have to reduce your width amount to something less than 20%. And,
because min-width doesn't work in IE, your navigation bar will wrap
when window size is reduced too far.
-Hugh Todd
Ive gotta find some solution or ill have to revert back to table cells
:(
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Re: [WSG] Fluid Horizontal Lists
Interesting approach...
I was trying to use padding/margins as I wanted to ensure that XXX
menu itme wasnt as wide as XX if ya know what I mean.
Your solution does work but ive lost the variable widths. Ill have a
play with it.
Yeah the IE min-width thing is a b***ch. Im using the Project 7 script
solution at the moment... Seems to work ok.
Thanks Hugh
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:06:59 +1000, Hugh Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Todd,
If you turn the 'a's into block elements and float them left, adding no
padding or border, you can give them widths of 20% and have them span
the page.
#nav ul li a
{
padding: .2em 0;
display: block;
float: left;
width: 20%;
}
Of course, this means you lose your dividers. If you add them, you will
have to reduce your width amount to something less than 20%. And,
because min-width doesn't work in IE, your navigation bar will wrap
when window size is reduced too far.
-Hugh Todd
Ive gotta find some solution or ill have to revert back to table cells
:(
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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[WSG] Eric Myer interviewed for Apple Pro website
FYI http://www.apple.com/pro/words/meyer/ -Hugh Todd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] be-nice-to-IE/MAC @media rule
On Oct 5, 2004, at 13:03, Natalie Buxton wrote: This does indeed look like it could be useful, could you show an example in context? Eg with rules above and below for people like me who need it a little clearer? http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/hiding/#atmedia It should be noted that this technique doesn't really enables @media for IE Mac; the rules will apply to all media if used. Philippe --/--\-- Philippe Wittenbergh blog : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | webprojects http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
