[WSG] off-topic: RSS Feeders
Hi All Sorry about this off-topic post and you can certainly reply off line to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I am behind the learning curve with RSS aggregators and would like to know if someone could recommend a good desktop RSS application that would also tie in with ipod or cell phones for reading reports offline. This group always is a great resource for information. Thanks Ted www.tdrake.net
RE: [WSG] simplyaccessible.org
Hi Terrance A fieldset should contain a set of similar inputs, such as the users personal information, a fieldset for creditcard information, shipping address, etc. It would defeat the coordinating purpose to use a fieldset randomly to create rows or columns. That said, you could set a width to a fieldset and float the fieldsets to create a columnar form. Ted www.tdrake.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Wood Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 3:46 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] simplyaccessible.org Derek Featherstone said: the divs are there to provide additional style hooks[...] to create rows without using tables. You have not misinterpeted what I was saying, sorry my email is a little terse today.I would've have emailed you off-list but couldn't find your email anywhere (within my 3 second attention span =) I guess my point is that if you need to create 'rows' of form controls, then isn't this what the fieldset element is for? I'm figuring these examples will be influential for newbies and so it would be nice if the examples used fieldset as it is intended instead of divs, and you would only need an addtional rule to style the border. pedantic or semantic you decide =) kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Final Answer:...RE: [WSG] using the * within a selector
Hi All
The answer lies not in the * but in using a different selector. Sebastien
Guillon sent me a private answer:
This:
/*english */
a[hreflang=en]:after, a[hreflang=en-us]:after,
a[hreflang=en-ca]:after, a[hreflang=en-gb]:after,
a[hreflang=en-th]:after, a[hreflang=en-ie]:after,
a[hreflang=en-ph]:after, a[hreflang=en-au]:after,
a[hreflang=en-nz]:after, a[hreflang=en-in]:after {content:\A0(In
English); font-size:90%; color:#666;}
Can be shortened to:
/*english */
a[hreflang|=en]:after {content:\A0(In English);
font-size:90%;color:#666;}
See http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#attribute-selectors
You can also put all the font color and size in one rule like this:
a[hreflang]:after {font-size:90%; color:#666;}
So now you're left with
/*english */
a[hreflang|=en]:after {content:\A0(In English);}
--
I'm in the process of adapting an international link idea from Sebastien's
blog. I'll post it soon and let everyone know.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rob Mientjes
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:58 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] using the * within a selector
On 10/5/05, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
a[hreflang=sp]:after, a[hreflang=sp-*]:after {content:\A0(In
Spanish);
font-size:90%; color:#666;}
Is there a way to use the wildcard inside a selector like this?
a[hreflang*=sp]::after { ... }
See: http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/CR-css3-selectors-2003/#selectors
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)i
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[WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin!
Hi All As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com that allows you to search their posts for information. That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search. Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a personalized search engine portal. Well, today, I created a standards-based web portal and then made a cool plugin. Go to my web site: http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea sier/ to download the standardista plugin. You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox toolbar: * alistapart.com * w3.org * simplebits.com * meyerweb.com * stuffandnonsense.co.uk * shauninman.c... * splintered.co.uk * stopdesign.com * andybudd.com * jasonsantamaria.com * accessify.com * clagnut.com * 456bereastreet.com * quirksmode.org * tantek.com * positioniseverything.net * tdrake.net * zeldman.com * webstandards group P.S. I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your suggestions. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!
I didnt have room for all of them but Ive added most of the sites below. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bit Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin! hi all, maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... http://www.sitepoint.com/ http://digital-web.com/ http://cssplay.co.uk/ http://tanfa.co.uk/ http://www.stylegala.com/ http://kottke.org/ http://www.wpdfd.com/ nice greetings from vienna :) 2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com that allows you to search their posts for information. That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search. Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a standards-based web portal and then made a cool plugin. Go to my web site: http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea sier/ to download the standardista plugin. You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox toolbar: * alistapart.com * w3.org * simplebits.com * meyerweb.com * stuffandnonsense.co.uk * shauninman.c... * splintered.co.uk * stopdesign.com * andybudd.com * jasonsantamaria.com * accessify.com * clagnut.com * 456bereastreet.com * quirksmode.org * tantek.com * positioniseverything.net * tdrake.net * zeldman.com * webstandards group P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your suggestions. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ... (Linus Torvalds)
RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!
Hi buddy The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net its the first post. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:52 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n! Your website will not pull up for me. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: I didnt have room for all of them but Ive added most of the sites below. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of bit Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin! hi all, maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... http://www.sitepoint.com/ http://digital-web.com/ http://cssplay.co.uk/ http://tanfa.co.uk/ http://www.stylegala.com/ http://kottke.org/ http://www.wpdfd.com/ nice greetings from vienna :) 2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com that allows you to search their posts for information. That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search. Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a standards-based web portal and then made a cool plugin. Go to my web site: http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea sier/ to download the standardista plugin. You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox toolbar: * alistapart.com * w3.org * simplebits.com * meyerweb.com * stuffandnonsense.co.uk * shauninman.c... * splintered.co.uk * stopdesign.com * andybudd.com * jasonsantamaria.com * accessify.com * clagnut.com * 456bereastreet.com * quirksmode.org * tantek.com * positioniseverything.net * tdrake.net * zeldman.com * webstandards group P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your suggestions. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ... (Linus Torvalds) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!
? Im not sure what this is about. If anyone knows that Rollyo is bad, speak up, but Im certainly not pushing any fake googlebar scam. Im talking about the dropdown list that sits at the top right of your firefox browser. Dan Cederholm of Simplebits refers to the site as the brainchild of Dave Pell, http://davenetics.com/ and Simplebits did the design, so it should be a reputable company. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:07 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n! Fake Google Toolbars Spreading Identity Theft Beware of guests bearing Google Toolbars. That's because a series of phishing probes are making the rounds that deliver a faked version. Install the real-looking software, and your credit cards and other personal information are captured, then transmitted to a shadowy group of criminals. We've got details on how the scam works, and what to look out for, in our security alert. Beware Fake Toolbars: http://ct.eletters.whatsnewnow.com/rd/cts?d=181-544-1-278-911239-26861-0-0-0-1 On 10/6/05, Buddy Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Weird, i cant get to the site...i think it's blocking my ISP or something. I tried ping and nothing, i could trace and ping from an outside website but not from my machine. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: Hi buddy The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net it's the first post. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:52 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n! Your website will not pull up for me. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: I didn't have room for all of them but I've added most of the sites below. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of bit Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin! hi all, maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... http://www.sitepoint.com/ http://digital-web.com/ http://cssplay.co.uk/ http://tanfa.co.uk/ http://www.stylegala.com/ http://kottke.org/ http://www.wpdfd.com/ nice greetings from vienna :) 2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com that allows you to search their posts for information. That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search. Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a standards-based web portal and then made a cool plugin. Go to my web site: http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea sier/ to download the standardista plugin. You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox toolbar: * alistapart.com * w3.org * simplebits.com * meyerweb.com * stuffandnonsense.co.uk * shauninman.c... * splintered.co.uk * stopdesign.com * andybudd.com * jasonsantamaria.com * accessify.com * clagnut.com * 456bereastreet.com * quirksmode.org * tantek.com * positioniseverything.net * tdrake.net * zeldman.com * webstandards group P.S.I also let the cat out of the bag in this post that I begin working with Yahoo in a week. If you have my email address in your computer, you may want to update it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. P.S.S. I can add 6 more web sites to the search query. Send me your suggestions. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Software is like Sex - it's better when it's free ... (Linus Torvalds) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Brian Ussery [EMAIL PROTECTED] beta testing: [EMAIL PROTECTED] b e ussery imagery co. http://www.beussery.com 706.296.3446 905.935.4396f be unlimited! http://www.spreadfirefox.com/community/?q=affiliatesamp;id=2255amp;t=47
RE: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n!
Hi Adam I didnt take it personally. To be honest, my first reaction was it might have been a bit of spam on its own. When I clicked on the Google bar alert link, my computer froze. Just so everyone is clear, this is not part of the Google toolbar. Its part of your Firefox browser. I put this together because it is going to make my life much easier to find information and I know it will help others. It did make me wonder if I got sucked into a web 2.0 community building ponzi scheme. But I did some research on Rollyo and it does look like an upstanding company. For those whose sites are part of the search, it shouldnt increase your server loads. It looks like it is referencing the Yahoo engine. That was actually a concern of mine. I wouldnt want something pinging 25 sites every time someone used the toolbar. Now, how about them floats? Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of adam reitsma Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 4:03 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n! Don't take it personally, Ted, I think Brian is putting forward a valid point - buyer / freeloader beware. Google toolbars can actually do a lot of damage, so even when installing one from a valid source, it pays to be aware of the risks. That said, i think that there's a vast difference between installing a feature from a known source (yourself), and installing one you got a link to from some spam or popup window. --adam-- On 10/7/05, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ? I'm not sure what this is about. If anyone knows that Rollyo is bad, speak up, but I'm certainly not pushing any fake googlebar scam. I'm talking about the dropdown list that sits at the top right of your firefox browser. Dan Cederholm of Simplebits refers to the site as the brainchild of Dave Pell, http://davenetics.com/ and Simplebits did the design, so it should be a reputable company. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:07 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n! Fake Google Toolbars Spreading Identity Theft Beware of guests bearing Google Toolbars. That's because a series of phishing probes are making the rounds that deliver a faked version. Install the real-looking software, and your credit cards and other personal information are captured, then transmitted to a shadowy group of criminals. We've got details on how the scam works, and what to look out for, in our security alert. Beware Fake Toolbars: http://ct.eletters.whatsnewnow.com/rd/cts?d=181-544-1-278-911239-26861-0-0-0-1 On 10/6/05, Buddy Quaid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Weird, i cant get to the site...i think it's blocking my ISP or something. I tried ping and nothing, i could trace and ping from an outside website but not from my machine. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: Hi buddy The link got mangled, try www.tdrake.net it's the first post. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Buddy Quaid Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:52 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugi n! Your website will not pull up for me. Buddy Drake, Ted C. wrote: I didn't have room for all of them but I've added most of the sites below. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of bit Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:15 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Stop the Presses! Announcing the supercool search plugin! hi all, maybe some suggestions for the ff-toolbar ... http://www.sitepoint.com/ http://digital-web.com/ http://cssplay.co.uk/ http://tanfa.co.uk/ http://www.stylegala.com/ http://kottke.org/ http://www.wpdfd.com/ nice greetings from vienna :) 2005/10/6, Drake, Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All As many of you may have seen, I created a search plugin for Alistapart.com that allows you to search their posts for information. That was just the tip of the iceberg. I really wanted to create something that would allow me to search all of my favorite coding resources without having to wade through outdated posts, spam, etc in a typical search. Chris Pederick comes to the rescue today with a post about Rollyo, a personalized search engine portal.Well, today, I created a standards-based web portal and then made a cool plugin. Go to my web site: http://www.tdrake.net/standards-based-web-development-resources-made-even-ea sier/ to download the standardista plugin. You can now search all of these sites from the comfort of your firefox toolbar: * alistapart.com * w3.org * simplebits.com * meyerweb.com * stuffandnonsense.co.uk * shauninman.c... * splintered.co.uk * stopdesign.com
RE: [WSG] Css fluid but accurate positioning
If all heck is breaking loose on your floated objects in IE. Add position:relative and it may cure the problem. Sure, it is better to break it all down and try a more bullet-proof design. But sometimes its better to just go with the quick fix. Ted -Original Message- Adam Morris wrote: What is this bug in IE/Win that you need position: relative; for? Parts of the float that's overflowing the outer container when pulled like this, will become invisible. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!
Hi Terrence I try to avoid personal attacks and I thought twice before sending and once before the graphic designer attack. After sending it I realized I should have at least re-read the thing before hitting the send button. What I was referring to was this line: why you would search specifically for a date is beyond me. Do you really search alertbox in that manner? I just use the search box if I am after specfic content =) To avoid conflict and confusion this could have been better worded, just as my response could have benefited significantly by more thoughtful prose. Regardless of Jakob's web site, my point was that we shouldn't presume how someone is going to look at information and should try to offer the content as effectively as possible. Granted, we could use a span to wrap the dates and CSS to present them more attractively. This would create cleaner code and more flexibility in presentation. I think that would go way above Jakob's head. Placing this information in a table with title, date, summary, etc would be a nice alternative. I don't mean to judge you as a person or a programming. I meant to debate the concept of presenting information. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Wood Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:25 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right! Hi Ted, I'm not sure where you're coming from with this. I really don't see how my previous post connects to the bigger concept of what conscientious responsible web developer's should strive for, in fact I don't even understand what you by that. Should I take it that you consider me as not conscientious nor responsible, or if I'm not with you, I'm against you? My post was not a personal attack on Nick, nor was it dismissive of his POV. Admittedly, I got the impression he was struggling to come up with an example of how alertbox is difficult to use and perhaps that has tainted my message, but I was genuinely interested in whether he truely wanted to select his articles based primarily on date. I never said that date based scanning was irrelevant - I stated that, in this case, it was secondary to the title, and in fact pointed out what (in my view) the purpose of the dates were. I didn't design alertbox, obviously, so it's anyones guess as to how it is intended to be used, but I really sincerely believe that alertbox is about as easy to use as it gets. Surely, part of usability is pruning out the complexities of an interface? Less complexity, and fewer decisions to make, in theory, should make things more obvious and easier to use. And, surely one way to do that is by not trying to cater for every possible use case? I suggest that a scanning for single word pattern say, intranet, is far easier to do than scanning a variable date range (2000 or 2001) which is the minimum of two matches and twice the mental load. It's also easier to do using your browsers find function. Would you have tried to search the list by date prior to Nicks post, or were you using that as an excercise to see if it was difficult to get results? Did you search first for the word Intranet, and then the date, or the other way around (as Nick suggests you should be able to do)? Is publication in 2000 and 2001 the primary criteria, or is it more important that it concerns Intranets? Lastly, I wonder about the wisdom of taking cheap shots at graphic designers on a list frequented by designer types, such as myself... but maybe I'm being overly sensitive to criticism? kind regards Terrence Wood. Drake, Ted C. said: Hi Terrence I think your argument is against what we, as conscientious responsible web developers should strive for. Nick states he finds the list difficult to read. That is an honest reaction, frankly I agree with his analysis of a table would be better. But you defended the list by assuming a date-based scan of the items is not relevant. We should be providing information in the most compelling manner possible. A great web developer anticipates the many ways a person will look for and at the data and prepares the page accordingly. Sure, it's easier for us to dismiss people for not using the site as we anticipated. But those people are still called graphic designers. (Sorry, I went to art school and we always sought the cheap shot at the graphic designer students a floor below) Seriously, that is what usability and accessibility is all about. Make your content easy to use. Don't dismiss someone for wanting to use it differently. By the way, after looking at the original post, I did go through and look for dates. I was trying to look for one of his 10 best intranet posts around 200, and 2001. So the first thing I looked for was the years and then scanned by title. Luckily it was chronologically sorted. Respectfully Ted
[WSG] using the * within a selector
Hi All
I'd like to replace this:
a[hreflang=sp]:after, a[hreflang=sp-mx]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-us]:after, a[hreflang=sp-sp]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-hn]:after, a[hreflang=sp-cu]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-co]:after, a[hreflang=sp-ec]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-gt]:after, a[hreflang=sp-pa]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-cr]:after, a[hreflang=sp-pe]:after,
a[hreflang=sp-bo]:after, a[hreflang=sp-cl]:after { content:\A0(In
Spanish); font-size:90%; color:#666;}
with this:
a[hreflang=sp]:after, a[hreflang=sp-*]:after {content:\A0(In Spanish);
font-size:90%; color:#666;}
Is there a way to use the wildcard inside a selector like this?
Thanks
Ted
www.tdrake.net
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Ouch- was: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right!
Hi Terrence I think your argument is against what we, as conscientious responsible web developers should strive for. Nick states he finds the list difficult to read. That is an honest reaction, frankly I agree with his analysis of a table would be better. But you defended the list by assuming a date-based scan of the items is not relevant. We should be providing information in the most compelling manner possible. A great web developer anticipates the many ways a person will look for and at the data and prepares the page accordingly. Sure, it's easier for us to dismiss people for not using the site as we anticipated. But those people are still called graphic designers. (Sorry, I went to art school and we always sought the cheap shot at the graphic designer students a floor below) Seriously, that is what usability and accessibility is all about. Make your content easy to use. Don't dismiss someone for wanting to use it differently. By the way, after looking at the original post, I did go through and look for dates. I was trying to look for one of his 10 best intranet posts around 200, and 2001. So the first thing I looked for was the years and then scanned by title. Luckily it was chronologically sorted. Respectfully Ted www.tdrake.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Wood Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:43 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Top Ten Web Design Mistakes - yeah, right! Nick Lo said: That enormous list of previous columns is visually very difficult to scan. It is chronological so if you are browsing for a particular date your eye must go in and out of the jagged right edge. The alertbox a title based listing not a date based one, hence why the title appears first, why you would search specifically for a date is beyond me. Do you really search alertbox in that manner? I just use the search box if I am after specfic content =) The list is arranged in reverse chronology because it makes more sense than an alphabetical listing, and the most current articles appear at the top (great for return visits). I'm sure dates are offered as a courtesy as opposed to a primary navigating device, perhaps so you can decide if the content is current/relevant or not, or so you know whats new since your last visit?. I think a three column table is overkill for a simple listing of articles. kind regards Terrence Wood. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: Use of cite WAS: Re: [WSG] Homepage Review: webnetdesignstudi os.com
Hi Joshua
Cite can be an attribute of a Blockquote or q tag. However, it is the uri of
the referenced quote.
Blockquote cite=http://www.libraryofcongress.gov/constitution;
We the people...
/Blockquote
It will not appear visually unless you use css to add the uri to the block
quotes presentation. However, if you right-click on the Blockquote and view
properties, you will see the reference link. I would assume the cite could
also include other references, such as Vault 14, stack 5, isbn:. pg. 3,
... but I can't say for certain. Does anyone know better?
Cite as a tag gives more semantic value to the provider of information.
Blockquote
We the people...
citeThomas Jefferson/cite
Blockquote
Apologies if I got the name wrong, I didn't look it up to see if TJ wrote
the constitution and I need more coffee to think straight this morning.
Ted
www.tdrake.net
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joshua Street
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:02 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Use of cite WAS: Re: [WSG] Homepage Review: webnetdesignstudios.com
On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 12:39 +1000, Lea de Groot wrote:
I would give strong consideration to:
p class=testimonialnameciteJoe Coyle,/cite President/p
.testimonialname cite {font-weight:bold}
and think about working a q element into the actual quote-paragraph.
This immediately seems to make sense, but I'm left wondering one thing.
With forms, we are encouraged to make use of the for attribute on label
elements, in order to make the relationship between elements clear. Can
a similar practise apply to cite and q? With blockquote elements we have
the cite attribute, but that is different again and can only be used for
href data.
So... is there any way to define this relationship? Or is it just
order-of-content and hoping it makes sense? What if you were to put the
cite after the quote for whatever reason (style guide convention, etc)?
Kind Regards,
Joshua Street
base10solutions
Website:
http://www.base10solutions.com.au/
Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02)
8572-6021
Mobile: 0425 808 469
Multimedia Development Agency
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RE: [WSG] Horizontal ordered lists
Hi Angela
I was told of this issue recently and it is indeed a problem with ordered
lists. I don't remember what the solution was, but I think it involved
adding position:relative to the list items. You may also need to add
height:1%; with a * html filter to make IE give it layout.
See positioniseverything.com for more information on IE bugs.
Ted
www.tdrake.net
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Angela Galvin
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 8:38 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Horizontal ordered lists
Hello,
I'm having a totally BIZARRE problem where I'm trying to style an
ordered list so that it displays in a horizontal line WITHOUT losing
the numbering.
The code and CSS I'm using is below:
div#sections_nav ol li {
float : left;
width : 80px;
}
div id=sections_nav
ol
liPlanning amp;Strategy/li
liIssues amp; Messages/li
liChannels amp; Processes/li
liStyle amp; Culture/li
liMeasurement/li
liEmployee Involvement/li
liSkills/li
/ol
/div
As soon as I try to position the li using 'display: inline' or 'float:
left' the numbering disappears in Internet Explorer.
I'm totally stumped! Any suggestions gratefully appreciated.
Many thanks,
Angela
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RE: [WSG] new site designed - code walkthrough please?
Hi Adam
Your code looks good. However, you could simplify it a bit.
This is a page that could use fewer divs. For instance
div id=nav
ul id=navlist
lia href=index.htmlHome/a/li
lia href=content.htmlHistory/a/li
lia href=content.htmlUpcoming Events/a/li
lia href=content.htmlPast Productions/a/li
lia href=content.htmlContact Us/a/li
/ul
/div
It wouldn't take much time to remove the nav div and just associate your
styles to navlist. Right now, you are using rules such as #nav ul. Just put
the rules on #navlist.
In the news div, you could apply the styles to the news div and remove the
class=news unless you expect to have a variety of dls in that div
#news dl {rules associated with dl.news}
#news dl dl {rules associated with dl.info}
I would change class=small to class=fineprint or newsdetails. This
gives you the future flexibility to change background, colors, positions etc
without having to look for the small text.
div id=news
h3Latest News/h3
dl class=news
dtJuly 1, 2005/dt
ddh4Tickets available for
Rosencrantz amp; Gildenstern are dead!/h4/dd
dd class=small
Tickets are on sale for our
amazing performance of the hilarious Tom Stoppard play. Be sure to book
early to avoid disappointment.
dl
class=infodtAdults:/dt dd$25/dd/dl
dl
class=infodtConcession:/dt dd$20 /dd/dl
/dd
/dl
dl class=news
dtJanuary 1, 2005/dt
ddh4Auditions open for Romeo
amp; Juliet/h4/dd
dd class=smallCome and audition
on thursday nights, at Blacktown RSL/dd
/dl
/div
This is also excessive
div id=feature
div id=feature_top
h3Now Showing/h3
/div
div id=feature_image
img src=images/cosi_icon.jpg
alt=cosi icon /
/div
div id=feature_body
p class=smallstrongWe have a
show that is now on at the blacktown RSL./strong Be sure to watch it,
there's no doubt that it will be fantastic./p
/div
div id=feature_bottom
p class=smallFor any a
href=home.htmlquestions/a, please contact a
href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a/p
/div
/div
Instead of all these divs, try :
#feature h3 {}
#feature p {...}
#feature p.feature_bottom {...}
#feature img {..}
div id=feature
h3Now Showing
img src=images/cosi_icon.jpg alt=cosi icon /
p
strongWe have a show that is now on at the blacktown RSL./strong
Be sure to watch it, there's no doubt that it will be fantastic./p
p class= feature_bottom
For any a href=home.htmlquestions/a, please contact a
href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a/p
/div
While this may seem like an exercise in nitpicking, imagine how much easier
it will be for the next programmer if they can just add an h3 or a paragraph
without wondering if they need to wrap it in a div and what was the name of
that div.
I think you could cut your div count in half fairly easily. Think of it as a
challenge to see how many you can remove and replace with descending styles.
Ted
www.tdrake.net
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RE: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks
I think the future of CSS is not in hacks but looking seriously into using the conditional comments. Im saying this as someone that is trying to figure out the best approach for retrofitting older conversions. Conditional comments are IE statements that say if ie6 use this additional CSS file, if IE5Mac, use this style sheet, if neither: ignore this statement. IE7 is going to throw a curveball worthy of a World Series ring. While it is easy and more convenient to throw a * html statement into a CSS, we need to start seriously looking at separating our hacks into different style sheets and intelligently using filters and conditional comments to refer to them. I think the approach this person is suggesting is very 2005, we need to look at 2006 answers. Im dreading the idea of inserting conditional comments into the head sections of html pages. Id like to insert it into the main.css file that imports more sophisticated styles. I have been overwhelmed lately and havent been able to test any answers to this. Does anyone have a suggestion? Imagine teasing someone that their CSS is So 2005! Did I just coin a term? Has Joe Clark already coined this one? Ted www.tdrake.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Irina Ahrens Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks Hi, I've found this to be an interesting idea and wondering what other members think about it: When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks: http://spaces.msn.com/members/siteexperts/Blog/cns!1pNcL8JwTfkkjv4gg6LkVCpw!1805.entry#comment Cheers, Irina.
RE: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks
Hi Anders That's the beauty of them. We're sending a special style sheet to IE and the rest are ignoring it. And we can define which version of IE uses the style sheet. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anders Nawroth Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] When bugs become patterns - A look at CSS Hacks Drake, Ted C. skrev: I think the future of CSS is not in hacks but looking seriously into using the conditional comments. I'm saying this as someone that is trying to figure out the best approach for retrofitting older conversions. Conditional comments are IE statements that say if ie6 use this additional CSS file, if IE5Mac, use this style sheet, if neither: ignore this statement. Conditional comments are Windows-only, unfortunately. Otherwise I share Ted's view on this topic. /AndersN ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] WE05
I'm not going to the WE05, I just have too many things in the fire right now. However, I would highly recommend everyone try to attend these conferences. Even if you have to pay for it out of your own pocket, go. You will meet new people, learn new techniques, network, eat convention food, network, meet new people, and most importantly get inspired to do new things. I've attended a ton of conferences from @media to the School for Scanning to Museums on the Web to the most recent: Business Blog Summit. I have always learned new things. I've traveled to London, Vancouver, Boston, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and more. I've sat in conference rooms inside convention centers, hotels, and the Getty. Every convention has been worth it, even if I can only manage getting into the trade show. Recently, I went to the business blog summit in San Francisco to learn more about RSS. During the first seminar, I met a guy from Toshiba who invited me to a mailing list about business to business blogs. Sounds innocent enough you may say. After posting a few comments on the blog I get an invitation to submit a resume to (I don't want to dooce anything, so lets just say it's one of the top 5 internet companies worldwide). A few weeks later ... I'm in Silicon Valley interviewing with this company! Yes folks, go to these conferences, meet people, interact, engage in conversations, grab cool t-shirts and make new friends. Before you know it, I may be the one inviting you to join this company. (Yes, I was hired and start in two weeks :) ) By the way, this list has been great. Much kudos to Patrick and Thierry for helping me with javascript programming. Ted www.tdrake.net ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] css variables
Hi everyone
There was a
recent spat of posts about using variables in CSS. I looked at them and thought
I need to look at these later.
Well, now Im working on a very
complicated CSS file and would like to replace #f60 in several million places
with {selectedlink}. Its not several million places, I swear, but is
still a hefty number of times.
Heres the deal. I have a main
navigation css. Id like to create an alternate template and instead of
replacing the nav.css with a new flavored nav.css, Id like to put my
color rules in a theme css file.
For example, lets call it something emo
like, lasttraintofresno.css. This lovely CSS file should have only a few rules,
i.e. change the color of the headers, the back ground of the subsection div,
and lets throw in a different border color on the footer. Oh, and
change the color of the selected item in the navigation. Ouch, my 4 rule css
file now grows to 54,056 lines of rules re-writing the #f60 code. Wouldnt
it be lovely if I just had {selectedlink}: #ffcfcf?
Is this possible? Is this what they
were trying to tell me?
What language is my spellchecker looking at?
every word in this email is screaming check spelling!
Merci
Ted
RE: [WSG] css variables
Hi Rebecca
That's it. Thanks
I see it needs php. Hm back to the drawing board. I think we need to
make it work with static html.
Oh well.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rebecca Cox
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:06 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] css variables
Hi Ted,
You're not thinking of these?
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2005/08/31/the-constants-gardener/
Cheers
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C.
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2005 8:33 a.m.
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] css variables
Hi Terrence
I'm not sure If I asked the question right. I'm not looking to do a search
and replace. I'm hoping to set a variable in the CSS, such as This is the
color of all selected links in the navigation. Then, the css would just set
that variable. All of the various rules would refer to the variable instead
of the actual hexdec number.
How would the regular expression do that?
Thanks
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Terrence Wood
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:07 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] css variables
Drake, Ted C. said:
There was a recent spat of posts about using variables in CSS.[snip]
Ouch, my 4 rule css file now grows to 54,056 lines of rules re-writing
the #f60 code. Wouldn't it be lovely if I just had
{selectedlink} : #ffcfcf ?
There's no point using a slegehammer to drive in a tack.
I usually just use a regex: s/#f60/#ffcfcf/g
Any decent editor should handle that in one form or the other.
kind regards
Terrence Wood.
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RE: [WSG] Very strange IE glitch :(
Hi Kenny This sounds like some of the odd background painting bugs that happen with IE. Here's my advice. Start adding position:relative and/or height:1% to the targeted elements and their parents one at a time. It goes back to the ever popular haslayout issue. Look at positioniseverything.com for more information on this and other beauties. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kenny Graham Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:20 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Very strange IE glitch :( After a few days, I've almost given up on working around this bug in IE. I've never seen it before, but hopefully one of you has: http://www.kennygraham.net/projects/newsite/bug.html Short version: IE doesnt draw certain background colors/borders. But draws them if you move another window over, then away from them vertically. It's insane. Check it out. I tried removing all transparent background declarations and all background images, and it still did it. So I put them back. Please help? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] a better tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?
Hi Bruce
Try floating the content div instead. I've
often found this to be the easiest fix. A floated parent will contain its
floated children.
I've been writing a document for my
fellow programmers about nested lists and if write parent/child one more time I
think I'm going to change my name to Dr. Seuss.
Ted
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
10:50 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] a better tsolution
than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?
Hello,
on a new site I am working on (http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/) in
Mozilla/FF. you get the horizontal and vertical scroll bars on some of the
pagesand I know
the reason why. It is because I am overflow:auto on my content div. I
added this after googling and finding this was a float clearing
solver.
the content div has the following CSS:
div#text_area{/*hiding from IE*/
background:url(bg_text_area.jpg) repeat-y;
color:#333;
text-align:left;
border:0;
padding-top:2em;
margin:0;
height:100%;
overflow:auto;
}
If I don't have the overflow:auto in FF/moz the div doesn't extend
all the way to the footer like I want (the div in question is #text_area). Any
suugestions on solving this
problem in Mozilla, FF?
let me know if I need to provide additional information...
full CSS:
http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/main.css
--
::Bruce::
RE: [WSG] a better tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?
#wrap{float:left;}
#header {}
#maincontent {float:right; width:49%;}
#sidebar{float:left; width:49%}
#footer {clear:both;}
div id="wrap"
div id="header/div
div id=""maincontent"/div
div id="sidebar"/div
/div
div id="footer"/div
Is this what you mean?
It's a very basic version of what
you are describing. It works for me.
Normally, I float the parent for areas
where I'm afraid clearing an element will also clear the sidebar. I haven't
tried it for the whole page layout.
div id="gallery"
dl
dtasdfa/dt
ddasdfasdF/dd
/dl
dl
dtasdfa/dt
ddasdfasdF/dd
/dl
dl
dtasdfa/dt
ddasdfasdF/dd
/dl
/div
#gallery {float:left; width:100%;}
#gallery dl {float:left; width:40%;
margin:1em;}
Any feedback on this folks?
Ted
www.tdrake.net
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
1:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?
Thanks Ted,
not sure I am understanding you correctly, though. Say you have a
parent div you would to extend the length of your content, and within that
parent div you have a div at the top that you want to not float, but fit the
width of the parent, and below the top child div, you have two more twin dis,
one floated left, and one right, each taking up about 50% or half of the parent
div. What would be the solution for this? I don't think floating the parent
would work in this case, unless I am misunderstanding you.
On 9/27/05, Drake,
Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi Bruce
Try floating the content div instead. I've often found this
to be the easiest fix. A floated parent will contain its floated children.
I've been writing a document for my fellow programmers about
nested lists and if write parent/child one more time I think I'm going to
change my name to Dr. Seuss.
Ted
RE: [WSG] IE MAC just won't play ball!
Hi Adam On a side note, I like the blue colors but I get confused as a user with your use of orange on charisma throughout the page. I keep thinking it is a link. Your actual links are white, the same color as the text. I find the site difficult to read and explore. I would at least recommend re-evaluating your link styles and possibly defining the footer (navigation) better. Good luck Ted On 9/24/05, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the problem here might have to do with the fact that your XHTML is invalid. Please run every page through the validator and fix all the errors. There are definitely elements on every page that have not been closed, and I think they are causing all the problems. On 9/24/05, Adam Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HELP! I've just done a site for http://www.charismalab.com. Everything is great for Windows PC, Firefox, Safari BUT the client is looking at the site on her Mac OS 9 IE 5 and it's not right. I've use the import to use a separate style sheet which helped massively but there are some things that I just can't seem to make work! I've downloaded the classic mac IE and can't see what she sees .eg. apparently, the nav line on the bottom of each page breaks off and starts a new line (!) and I've given up on trying to make the wrapper stretch 100% so I'm going to simply give each page a separate wrapper and give it a fixed length, but things still aren't right... can ANYone see where I'm going wrong??? the mac ie css is http://www.charismalab.com/ie51.css Thanks... Adam -- ADAM x -- ADAM x
RE: [WSG] IE MAC just won't play ball!
Hi Adam
I just sent a message about your linking
colors and then looked at your source code. Here's another suggestion I
would make for you.
li class=liststrongThe Energetics of Charisma/strongbr Delegates are introduced to span class=orangeCharisma/spanspan class=boldlab/span's system of transformation through unique principles, methods and techniques for the management of personal energy (Charisma)./li
Becomes
dl
dt The Energetics of
Charisma /dt
dd Delegates are
introduced to spanCharisma/spanstronglab/strong's system of transformation through unique
principles, methods and techniques for the management of personal energy
(Charisma)./dd
/dl
CSS
Dt {background: (your orange square)
no-repeat 0 0; padding-left:10px; font-weight:bold;}
Dd{padding-left:10px; margin:5px 0;}
Dl span {color:orange;}
It could be further argued that your using
strong may be wrong for the icon since you don't really want to scream
lab at people. Since it is purely decorative, you could wrap it in a
b/b set.
Part of the journey through
standards-based development is realizing where things could be written cleaner
and more semantic markup used.
I still think the orange charisma looks
too much like a link.
Good luck
Ted
On 9/24/05, Adam
Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
HELP! I've just done a
site for http://www.charismalab.com.
Everything is great for Windows PC, Firefox, Safari BUT the client is looking
at the site on her Mac OS 9 IE 5 and it's not right. I've use the import to use
a separate style sheet which helped massively but there are some things that I
just can't seem to make work! I've downloaded the classic mac IE and can't see
what she sees .eg. apparently, the nav line on the bottom of each page breaks
off and starts a new line (!) and I've given up on trying to make the wrapper
stretch 100% so I'm going to simply give each page a separate wrapper and give
it a fixed length, but things still aren't right... can ANYone see where I'm
going wrong???
the mac ie css is http://www.charismalab.com/ie51.css
Thanks...
Adam
--
ADAM x
--
ADAM x
RE: [WSG] a better tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?
Hi Bruce
I can't answer your question
immediately, due to time constraints. But my first suggestion is to simplify
your css to see where things are happening. Here's a snippet of the first
few rules:
/*global structure elements */body { margin: 0; padding: 0; color: #333; font: 76%/1.5em arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background: #e2e3d5; height: 100%; min-height: 100%; text-align:center; }#wrapper_outer { width: 769px; height: 100%; min-height:100%; font-size: 1em; min-height: 100%; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;}* htmlbody #wrapper_outer { height: auto;}#top{padding:0;margin:0;background:url(bdr_top.jpg) no-repeat;}#bottom{padding:0;margin:0;background:url(bdr_bottom.jpg) no-repeat;}
Can become:
Body, div, ul, li, ol, dl, dt, dd, p,
table, td, tr, th, tbody, thead, caption {padding:0; margin:0;}
body {color: #333; font: 76%/1.5em arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background: #e2e3d5; height: 100%; min-height: 100%;text-align:center;}#wrapper_outer {width: 769px; height: 100%; min-height:100%;font-size: 1em;margin:0 auto;}#top{background:url(bdr_top.jpg) no-repeat 0 0;}#bottom{background:url(bdr_bottom.jpg) no-repeat 0 0;}Here's a couple things I saw, repetitive mention of margin:0, padding:0. Declare it once in the top of the page to zero out the browsers. Begin adding margin and padding on elements that need it.#wrapper_outer had min-height:100% twiceThis is an odd set of filters that show something only to IE then you hide it from IE with the selector. It's not doing anything. * htmlbody #wrapper_outer {height: auto;}I would suggest combing through your CSS to remove extra elements. I have not used the height/min-height 100% rule very often. I don't know if that could be causing any issues.Ted
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
2:40 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?
that's more or less what I am doing, but
take a look at this page in FF
http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/About.htm
scroll bars are there, if I take out overflow:auto in CSS on
div#text_area
it looks even worse cuz, in FF the div only extends as far as the
#right_block_content on some pages.
my CSS for #right_block_content div is:
#right_content_block_index{/*used
for vertical divider on home page*/
float:right;
width:35%;
height:100%;
padding-right:10px;
}
here is an example of a page which is messed up in ff w/o the
overflow:auto
http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/Clients.htm
full CSS
http://www.fortuneinteractive.com/main.css
On 9/27/05, Drake,
Ted C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
#wrap{float:left;}
#header {}
#maincontent {float:right; width:49%;}
#sidebar{float:left; width:49%}
#footer {clear:both;}
div id=wrap
div id=header/div
div id=maincontent/div
div id=sidebar/div
/div
div id=footer/div
Is this what you mean?
It's a very basic version of what you are describing. It
works for me.
Normally, I float the parent for areas where I'm afraid
clearing an element will also clear the sidebar. I haven't tried it for the
whole page layout.
div id=gallery
dl
dtasdfa/dt
ddasdfasdF/dd
/dl
dl
dtasdfa/dt
ddasdfasdF/dd
/dl
dl
dtasdfa/dt
ddasdfasdF/dd
/dl
/div
#gallery {float:left; width:100%;}
#gallery dl {float:left; width:40%; margin:1em;}
Any feedback on this folks?
Ted
www.tdrake.net
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005
1:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] a better
tsolution than oveflow:auto for Mozilla?
Thanks
Ted,
not sure
I am understanding you correctly, though. Say you have a parent div you would
to extend the length of your content, and within that parent div you have a div
at the top that you want to not float, but fit the width of the parent, and
below the top child div, you have two more twin dis, one floated left, and one
right, each taking up about 50% or half of the parent div. What would be the
solution for this? I don't think floating the parent would work in this case,
unless I am misunderstanding you.
On
9/27/05, Drake, Ted C.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Bruce
Try floating the content div instead. I've often found this
to be the easiest fix. A floated parent will contain its floated children.
I've been writing a document for my fellow programmers about
nested lists and if write parent/child one more time I think I'm going to
change my name to Dr. Seuss.
Ted
--
::Bruce::
[WSG] IFR- what is the latest version?
Hi All I have a quick question. I am looking for the latest version of using flash to replace header text. Is this the best approach? My feeble mind remembers an improved version out there in standardista-space. http://www.shauninman.com/plete/2004/04/ifr-revisited-and-revised Thanks Ted www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] please ignore prvs. msg.
I was on a mailing list where someone sent a message to a friend about their coworker and he was like such an idiot. And did you know Bruce had bad breath Things like that keep us human. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:45 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] please ignore prvs. msg. msg. sent to wrong group, sorry bout that :-)
[WSG] Questionable material: IE Showing Transparent Corners of Images as White - Until You Scroll Away and Come Back!
My first reaction to Bruce was, well it ain't art, but should we censor. My
second thought was, dang. I could get in trouble at work if I clicked on a
site that took me to something like that.
If you are going to ask for help working on a project that is questionable,
you should warn people in advance. Just say, hey, I'm working on an
internet gambling site and I'm having a problem. That would save a lot of
us from having to answer the firewall police as to why we were surfing for
something we aren't supposed to look at in the workplace.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:41 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE Showing Transparent Corners of Images as White - Until
You Scroll Away and Come Back!
Have we become reviewers of porn sites now?
Bruce Prochnau
BKDesign Solutions
- Original Message -
From: Mani Sheriar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: [WSG] IE Showing Transparent Corners of Images as White - Until You
Scroll Away and Come Back!
Hi All,
Please look here: http://www.manisheriar.com/form/vr/category_medicinal.htm
to see an example of this problem.
The two buttons ('view site' and 'full review') have transparent corners.
But in IE (not FireFox, of course) the top corners initially show up as
white, until you scroll away from them and the scroll back.
But then, if you hover over them, the hovered images have the white corners
and then once you mouse out the white corners are back! (Until you scroll
away and come back again - then they are gone . again.)
Huh???
The html is this:
p class=btna href=# class=visitspanVisit Site/span/a a
href=# class=reviewspanFull Review/span/a/p
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RE: [WSG] Site Check (eStore)
Hi Thierry If were gonna git nitpicky. I'd clean up this code on the shopping cart: tr valign=top class=altRowOdd tdinput name=lineID2 type=hidden value=59 / label for=qty2a href=details.asp?prodID=72Marbled White/a (023-BAXS)/label br / raquo; Color: Black br / raquo; Size: X-Small /td td class=aligncenter$75.00/td td class=aligncenterinput id=qty2 name=qty2 type=text value=1 size=3 onblur=cleanField(this) //td td class=alignright$75.00/td td class=aligncenter input name=remove type=checkbox class=formCheckbox value=59 //td /tr To: tr (alternating row class inserted with js) td class=colproduct ul liinput name=lineID2 type=hidden value=59 / label for=qty2a href=details.asp?prodID=72Marbled White/a (023-BAXS)/label/li liColor: Black/li liSize: X-Small/li /ul /td td $75.00/td td class=colquantityinput id=qty2 name=qty2 type=text value=1 size=3 onblur=cleanField(this) //td td class=coltotal$75.00/td td class=colremove input name=remove type=checkbox class=formCheckbox value=59 //td /tr Use CSS to define the alignment on the cells, use an unordered list instead of br tags. I like the even/odd rows for tables and divs in this page and the product page. If you are not already using the zebraAll.js script from list member Patrick Lauke, give him a holler. It handles the striping of divs, tables, lists, and more from one script. I've been using it and absolutely love it. Will you be releasing this as a package soon? E-commerce forms are a dime a dozen but there is so little out there that is as well thought-out as this. Nice work. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:44 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check (eStore) Thierry Koblentz wrote: http://www.tjkdesign.com/eStore/ I've put it through a few browsers on PC, but I'm pretty limited on the Mac side... Thanks, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] alistapart.com search plugin
Hi All I just posted a plugin for your firefox browser. It installs a search option for stuff on www.alistapart.com. In other words, when you need to find the code for sprite rollovers, you go to the search box in the top right, choose alistapart, type in sprite rollovers and voila, you get the www.alistapart.com search results in your browser window. Installation is a piece of cake, just click on a link. Here's the post: http://www.tdrake.net/firefox-search-plugin-for-wwwalistapartcom/ Enjoy Ted www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Questions about the new european parliament web site
As many of you probably noticed via the WASP web site, a new web site was launched for the European parliament and it is a mess. Now, I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything and graciously ask for advice. When I looked at the source code, I saw all sorts of bizarre mixtures of xml, html, and what seems to be cms placeholder information. Could people describe some of these bits of code. Are they at all valid? 1. content/content 2. table xmlns:RT=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engineRT; xmlns:pe=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engine; xmlns:hp=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.util.Utils xmlns:psa=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.runtime.PublicationServic eAccessor xmlns:xalan=http://xml.apache.org/xalan; class=alerttable cellspacing=0 cellpadding=5 border=0 width=100% 3. contenu /contenu - I'm assuming this is the French equivalent of content 4. br xmlns:RT=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engineRT; xmlns:pe=http://www.europarl.eu.int/publication.engine; xmlns:hp=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.util.Utils xmlns:psa=ec.ep.webpub.refeur.service.publication.runtime.PublicationServic eAccessor xmlns:xalan=http://xml.apache.org/xalan/ (imagine 25 of these in a paragraph! :o ) Maybe it would be more educational if someone could describe how these tags might have been built. I'm assuming they are using a .net platform that has been horribly hacked. Maybe I shouldn't throw blame immediately at .net, but I have noticed similar things with them. Should the CMS have translated all of the xml stuff into an action or content? Is it just bad code? Content is not a valid xhtml 1.0 transitional tag. Was it ever? Will it be in the future? Thanks Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Flash elements
Hi Tom No need to go off list, I think this is a valid question for many people. I used to use the flash satay (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay) method but the UFO (http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/) technique is really quite nice and easy to use. Here's a site that I've used the ufo technique: www.alcalapetcare.com You can place an image or text in the non-flash area. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:32 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Flash elements Hello all, Can someone point me to the latest and greatest method for adding Flash to a page. Also, adding alternate content to a Flash element. Can the alt content be an image? Off list if you think it's best... Thanks! -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] XSLT errors: was - Questions about the new european parliament we b site
Hi Jan Thank you for clearing it up. I was hesitant to dump on .net. It gets more than its share of abuse and the XSLT errors are also good to know. XSLT is not discussed often on this list. I would be interested in knowing what people would suggest to fix the problems this site is having. Consider it an open-ended xslt suggestion post. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jan Brasna Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:02 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Questions about the new european parliament web site It is run on Apache, so the Xalan mentioning there looks like it's a product of some bad XSTL transformation. And it's not .NET, it's Java. -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] display inline question
Hi Nathan I had actually just removed the data from a table, cutting the code by 40% and removing over 1,000 images. This was an enormous page! I will probably play around with variations of the dl to get a nice separation from parent dl and child dl elements. Ted Hi Ted, I have had a similar experience with the same issue. The two solutions I had were: 1. Accept the currentlimitations of Definition lists until support for CSS3 is strong and have the definition term above the definition details. But to make things look a bit more attractive, why not style the DT to have a soft gradient background and bold the text with possibly a bit more height than normal. Then for the DD just reduce the left hand padding somewhat, add a border at the bottom and then some bottom margin to create a nicely separated list. 2. Use a table! Obviously a DL is the most semantic option fora list of terms, but if it MUST be in columns then tables can also be a semantic solution (although not as semantic). So effectively if you use tables theTH's for the two columns become the DL and DD. Using borders will also create a good visual association from term to the details to avoid your shot with some cartoon version of a shotgun issue. I personally would alwayslearn towardsoption 1, but if your client demands columns then I'm sure you won't getan ear bashing by the web standards gods. Regards, Nathan - Original Message - From: Drake, Ted C. To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 3:36 AM Subject: [WSG] display inline question My mind is not working very well today. I've got a question for you. I was asked to create a nested definition list with the nested dl's looking like simple lines of text. i.e. instead of this definition term definition data It would look like this: definition term definition data. I originally did this by floating the dt and dd elements and applying widths and margins to create columns. All was peachy. But sometimes the dd's are long or the dts are long and the columns start looking like they were shot with some cartoon version of a shotgun. So, the request was to allow the dt and dd to wrap onto two lines if needed. I tried to add display inline, but the following dt will also appear on the first line until they just look like one big happy paragraph. I tried adding combinations of display:inline and display:inline-block, to no success. I tried using display:inline-table in the faint hope of success... none so. Has anyone come across a solution for this? The requester actually made the suggestion of removing the dt/dd and just making them all dt elements. A shocked look from me and she immediately said, no that wouldn't be semantic and we wouldn't have the future flexibility. Ah yes, I do hear the doves of peace and joy somewhere. Ted www.tdrake.net
RE: [WSG] Valid Null Value
Hi Gez Can you have multiple tabindex=0 in a document? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gez Lemon Another consideration with tabindex is that it will put the associated element into Opera's tab order. By default, Opera only tabs to form controls, and links are navigated with 'a' and 'q' to cycle forwards and backwards through the links respectively. If anchors are provided with a tabindex attribute, then the tab key also stops at the anchor elements, which means Opera users can't easily differentiate between links and form controls. Obviously, it's valid to provide a tabindex value, and it's arguably Opera's implementation that is wrong, but it's another consideration about the value of tabindex attributes. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] the struggle to get valid
I hope everyone has a nice weekend. I thought I'd share a little code I stumbled upon on one of our legacy includes. pbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr I don't know how many times I have to tell the other programmers. If you are going to use 25 br tags in a paragraph, you've got to close them! How are we ever going to pass XHTML standards? Ted www.tdrake.net (-- no, it wasn't on that site) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] divitis - chronic vs. mild stages
I think you go through stages of CSS/XHTML maturity as you learn how to move away from tables to table-less design. Our first instinct is to use divs the same way we used tables. It feels safe to load up the page with structural divs. That's ok, especially if it is what helps you get from x to y. However, you will get to the point where you realize the first CSS based sites you built had too many divs and you start looking for ways to place the styles on the unordered list or paragraph instead of wrapping those elements in a div. I still see a valid reason to have divitis. If I am building a site that has to be flexible, modified by a large group of people AND uses server-side includes, I would rather make those include files self-contained units. Sure, I could remove the container div on many of the includes, but I prefer to know that if an include is added to a page, the elements within it are not going to inherit the styles of the page's container. Does that make sense? Now, the goal of a medium to advanced CSS-based programmer is to find the elegant balance of essential divs, spans, ids and classes. Consider it a challenge. I sometimes cringe when I see divitis. I sometimes chuckle. I even at times yell, hey Brian check out this site's chronic divitosis! But let's face it, this is an evolutionary process and those of us that have been doing it for a while need to remember what it was like on the first pass. Disclaimer: don't forget the horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible divitis and absolute-positionitis generated by some of the Office software and CMS systems. I once looked at a form that had hundreds of inputs and labels in individually positioned divs. That wasn't the programmer's fault. We just didn't have time yet to build a new generator from scratch. Ted www.tdrake.net P.S. Someone in the office just mentioned using the marquee tag. I need to sound the emergency siren and get to work. Some reasons for div-itis: 1. Columns. table cell = div is wrong, but usually columns = divs is correct. 2. Boxes. The designer wants to put a box around a group of items. There might be a heading, a list or two and a paragraph, with border and a background. You could do this without a div (for example, by setting side borders on all the items, and a top and bottom borders on the first and last items respectively), but it's easier to just wrap it in a div and give it an id and a single style. And since box = section = div, it's the correct thing to do anyway. 3. Multiple backgrounds. 4. Expandability. Sometimes you know you have only one item in a box or a column, and you know you don't need a wrapper div. But you can bet that in a couple of months the designer/editor/cleaner will want to add a more items. So you build the structure to grow. 5. Box model work-arounds. You want to give an item a width, some padding and a border. You could use some CSS hacks, or you could just set the width on a wrapper div, and the margin/border/padding on the item itself. e.g. with columns, I set the width on the column div, then set the margins/borders/padding on the contents. 6. Laziness and deadlines. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort to make things simple. Not always worth it. cheers -- Geoff Pack Developer ABC New Media ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox
Forgive me if I throw out another wild pitch. If I want to simulate a screen reader visually, I use the fangs extension to firefox. This translates the page into what a screenreader would read. Example output of Zeldman.com Page has seven headings and seventy-one links Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The Daily Report dash Mozilla Firefox Heading level one Link Zeldman colon Web design news List of five items bullet Link daily report bullet Link designing with web standards bullet Link my glamorous life bullet Link classics bullet Link about List end Heading level three Link six September two thousand five one pm edt Heading level two An Event Apart plus A List Apart Link An Event Apart launches , opening in Philadelphia. Link A List Apart Link Issue No. two hundred two highlights the useful and clever. Heading level three Link An Event Apart Join Eric Meyer, me, and special guests for a concentrated, one dash day learning session in selected cities, beginning with Philadelphia, PA. Is this what you were looking for? Excuse me as I duck behind the umpire. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dwain alford Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:10 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox Donna Jones wrote: Yes, and I was the one that asked for the link to it. After I got there found out to get it to read the page one has to hover w/ a mouse - so totally unlike a screen reader. I think hovering with a mouse could be helpful to some people but it doesn't give one an idea of how the page is read by a screen reader. i didn't download/install it. when i initially posted the list i said that it gives you a sense of what a screen reader reads the page. it is my understanding that a screen reader will also read title attributes on links and alt attributes on images. although you have to hover the mouse and it is not as sophisticated as a screen reader, there are some other features for accessibility trials. i haven't played with it much, but i will when i get some free time. cheers, dwain -- dwain alford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alforddesigngroup.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Submenus anyone?
Hi Al Your menu hides the submenu from users with javascript turned off. I turned mine off just to check. Is there an option to display the submenu information for those without javascript enabled? Ted Which menu are you using? This will not happen with our commercial Pop Menu Magic system, guaranteed. Here is a demo site using the menu, let me know if you can get the menu to stick open - I sure can't :-) Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox
Hi all If you haven't read Patrick Lauke's article on using the web developer toolbar, you should check it out. I thought I knew the toolbar but he's introduced several features that have made it into my daily work habit. http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue44/lauke/ Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joshua Street Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 9:17 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Evaluating Web Sites for Accessibility with Firefox On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 23:40 -0400, Donna Jones wrote: does anyone have an url for this? tried finding it on moz and couldn't and really would like to try it out. http://accessibar.mozdev.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
More accessibility on opening new windows: was:RE: [WSG] I'm on a question roll.... background images on links
Gian brings up an interesting point, Instead of using a background image,
insert the image that represents an open window instead. Place text in the
alt attribute that specifies the window will open in a new window.
I think I can go one step better.
The image you are using is still presentational and not necessarily
functional.
How about a href=http://www.yahoo.com class=external title=This link
will open in a new window onclick=window.open(this.href); return false;
Yahoo.comspanThis link will open in a new window/span/a
Now, use CSS
.external {background: url(bg-external-link.png)no-repeat 0 0;
padding-left:25px;}
.external span {display:none;}
This gives you the visual image without requiring multiple server requests,
distinct language for screenreaders, and provides clear information for
those without CSS enabled.
Will a screen reader read something that has display:none? Does someone have
a better suggestion for hiding this? I'm worried that text-indent would
create a huge target area for the link and position absolute may get thrown
off by where the link is used.
We could use javascript to detect the external link, i.e. look for
href=http or more likely a series of detects. It could insert the class,
the title, and the span.
This makes it easier on the programmer, they would write:
a href=http://www.yahoo.com;Yahoo.com/a
Thierry wrote a script for the latest post on my web site:
www.tdrake.net. You could use this as the starting point for the above
javascript and just modify it for what it is looking for and needs to
insert.
P.S. I can't figure out why this post is behaving differently than others on
my blog. I know it looks horrible as a permalink. There is an extra /div
getting inserted and it is using a different comments include. Has anyone
else had this issue on Wordpress?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gian Sampson-Wild (PurpleTop)
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:13 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] I'm on a question roll background images on links
Hi Ted
Just so you are aware, background images are not read by screen readers so
if you are trying to make the site accessible you should ensure that there
is an alternate way of identifying the link as opening a new window.
(Informing the user of opening a new window is a Level AA issue but if you
provide an image that conveys that information it becomes a Level A issue).
Also you can't rely on the TITLE attribute of the link tag as they are not
read out by screen readers by default. You may want to consider something
like:
http://www.liveinvictoria.vic.gov.au/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=95languageI
d=1contentId=-1 (right hand column under More information)
Cheers,
Gian
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Drake, Ted C.
Sent: Tuesday, 16 August 2005 2:32 AM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: [WSG] I'm on a question roll background images on links
We are using a background image on links to signify they are external. The
image sits on the right side of the link using background: url() 100% 0;
All is fine in firefox, but in IE the icon overlaps or sits at the top when
the text wraps to a second line. Is there a way to make the background
image follow the text inside a link rather than looking at the link as a
block?
I've tried display: inline-block and that made the spacing better, but
didn't fix the issue.
Here's an example
Good link:
| Google Virtual |
| World (icon) |
Bad link:
| Google Virtua(icon) | The icon sits at the top and doesn't
| World | flow with the text
Has anyone found a way to fix this? I don't want to go back to inline images
and our standard is to have the icon on the right and not the left.
Otherwise, I would have placed it on the left and it would have been a
cake-walk.
P.S. sorry about an earlier html formatted email, I try to send them in
plain text.
Thanks
Ted Drake
www.tdrake.net
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RE: [WSG] Microformats
Hi Chris The summary is at: http://www.tdrake.net, but it is about opening new windows for pdf files. For a summary of microformats, visit http://microformats.org/ Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Kennon Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:25 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Microformats Hi, Where is this summary, Microformated? C On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Ben Curtis wrote: Ted Drake just wrote up a summary of the previous opening a new window conversation, so I'd like to grab a sample from what he was doing -- after all, microformats *must* satisfy a real, current need in order to be useful. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
nested table web site example was:RE: [WSG] Fix for min-max in IE [IE crash FYI]
Wowser Da-Code person Your site is certainly artistic but ouch, you need to convert that thing to standards-based. I'm sure it's probably the cobbler's son going barefoot, but at least change your alt attributes to something more appropriate. Use alt= instead of alt=image. Look at the oft-mentioned sprite essay on alistapart for the nav and consider the disjointed rollovers via stopdesign or andy budd? I like the visuals but I'd like to see what your imagination could do with CSS instead of nested tables. I hope this doesn't sound too negative, I was just surprised to see it on this mailinglist. Ted Fairness statement I really shouldn't be talking. I just remembered this old site that I still haven't removed: www.sdco-op.com/drake Hi all, On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:33 +1200, Rachel Radford wrote: We have just launched a site (www.eastwoodhill.org.nz) but have received feedback that IE for windows is crashing!!! Just tested with my NT 5 (w2k sp4) + IE6 and it really crashes when trying to access any page via the top menu. -- http://www.da-code.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element
Hi Scott I don't have an immediate answer for your problem, but I would like to suggest some more vertical padding on your lists. I found it difficult to keep focus on the links as I tried to go from second to third level. Perhaps if the link was taller it would be easier for the mouse. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of scott reston Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] IE clips absolutely positioned element I'm working on a design using a tweak of Son of Suckerfish[1] for menus. Rather than have the menus cascade down and to the right (relatively positioned), I want the sub-menus to position in equally-sized blocks to the right (absolutely positioned). HTML: http://capstrat.com/development/example/ CSS: http://capstrat.com/development/example/elements/site.css If you mouse over the 1st item in the blue box, then the 1st item in the gold box while using IE, you'll see the issue. The absolutely positioned gold box contains the grey-background sub-menus. I've nudged the grey boxes to the left a bit so that you can see where IE renders them. The gold box 'breaks out' of the blue box just fine because the blue box is relatively positioned. If you search for =:NAVIGATION in the CSS, you'll find the relevant code describing the menus. The blue box (parent UL) is ul.navigation-primary. HTML validates and works fine in Firefox and friends. CSS wont validate because of the opacity filter to appease IE, but removing the offending code doesn't repair the problem. Can someone suggest a fix or give some advice that might help me free the little grey boxes from IE opression? Thanks! Scott Reston Raleigh, NC [1]http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Yes, one more open window thing. but wait, this is one to read
No to toot my own horn, but I just uploaded a new post to my web site that summarizes the to open or not to open a new window debate that we had on this list a week or so ago. http://www.tdrake.net List member Thierry went above and beyond the call of duty to update a script he had previously written. This new script will allow you to have a very simple link tag and it handles the open window behavior, inserting a class for your CSS file and even the title tag to let people know that it will open in a new window. I've referenced several posts to this mailing list. I hope I made all of the corrections, please let me know if I missed someone's feedback or would like their reference changed. I couldn't get in touch with everyone. Ted www.tdrake.net p.s. I know the permalink formatting is off. I think I've got a div that is open or an extra closed tag or something. That's my homework for tonight. If anyone sees the problem before me, you get an extra brownie point... :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Know any standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editors for a CMS integration?
Before this gets off topic and sent to the CMS mailing list, I too would like to know of a plugin for wordpress that makes it more semantic and easier to code straight html. I don't like the way it adds p and br tags to scripting. I can take responses off line at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Harris Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:24 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Know any standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editors for a CMS integration? I'm looking for a standard's compliant WYSIWYG XHTML editor to be included in a custom-built CMS. It needs to works with IE, Firefox, and Safari. It should run directly from the browser and not require users to download and install any lcoal plug-ins. Has this been created yet? Has anyone seen up-to-date reviews of the latest and greatest WYSIWYG editors? Best regards, Matt Harris www.focusontheclouds.com
RE: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma
Hi All I am finishing up an essay on opening pdf files in new windows, using feedback from this list to justify the argument. Thiery has written a great javascript to look for pdf attributes in links and add class, title, and behavior to the link dynamically. I will let you know when I upload it to my blog. Here's a question for the group. Your client's page has some empty space to the right. Could you replace the magazine graphics with an iframe and load the targeted web sites into the iframe. You could then offer a link in the iframe to open the page in a new window. This gives the visitor the ability to preview the page and then open it in a new window if it looks like something they are interested in. Further, you may be able to use some AJAX to load a snippet of the site into a div instead of an iframe and then use an external link. This site uses an iframe for the gallery: http://www.superiorpixels.com/portfolio.html Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of designer Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:39 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma Hi Tee, All I can say is that, as a sighted viewer, if I encountered a site with 100 links, each of which which opened in the same window, I'd be outa there faster than you can say 'back button' :-) I've been wondering of late if there is another way out of this: just like we can change the colours etc by changing the CSS, (style switching) how about if the user gets a choice by selecting certain site characteristics at start up? Has anyone tried this and taken it as far as choice of how new windows open? Just thinking aloud here . . . Bob McClelland www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk tee wrote: Hi accessible care takers, I know open new window even for external site is no good and have put it in practise for most sites I have done, however I am kind of stuck on a site that has over 100 links to external sites. My client, understands no accessible issues however she was willing to take many of my suggestions, except the NO 'open new window' to external sites. Her argument is valid and justifiable, that she is afraid her audience (marketing decision markers, art directors and IT managers, ad firm account managers etc) will get lost if there isn't new window open for external site. I tried to convince her that her audience probably are more advanced internet users than most grandpa/grandmom audience my other clients have. She doesn't buy it and I haven't give up :) Visited Accessify, sitepoint as well as WSG archives to look for perfect solution; there seems none. It can also be quite a pain adding js code just to make the link works. My temporarily solution is to have the 'title=right click for new window' in the a href tag, and also provides an open new window icon next to the link text, however I am afraid this may actually creates confusion to her audience. So I created another icon that indicates 'right click to open new window' - it seems a bit over kill. I still think the 'title=right click for new window' is the best approach, but I notice the indication takes more than 3 seconds to show. Some people click faster than 3 seconds. Can you tell the message I try to convey at the first glance of the icon? Does it too fancy, too confusing? please see the first two links. http://clients.lotusseeds.com/news/june05_nikkeibussiness.html thanks! tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Misbehaving DL in TD
I agree with Peter, the float:left, float:right is the easiest way to handle this situation. Play around with the percentages to get the right amount of space between the columns, but give yourself some slop factor to avoid any problems with the two columns not fitting. You could also float the container to avoid the clear:both from throwing off any future floated columns. I think the definition list is a good approach for this content. Ted Sean SPALDING wrote: This page (http://www.business.ecu.edu.au/users/sean/webdev/flobo.htm) has a styled DL in a table. In IE the 2nd, 3rd, etc DDs for each DT slip left under the DT. Any suggestions? Hi Sean One suggestion would be to float the dd elements right and use their width and right margin to achieve that end. I've appended the stylesheet, with the necessary changes, below. It was necessary to add a clear: both; ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma
Hi Janelle Regardless of your window philosophy, I think using target=top is asking for trouble. That is a common target for pages with frames. I would at least suggest using a target name that is not part of the frame architecture. That is why most people used target=_blank. There are better javascript options to avoid using target, which is deprecated in XHTML and is asking html to do behaviors instead of letting javascript do it. Janelle said: I find it very confusing. The policy we use for our corporate website is to open a new browser window for external links with target=top title=This link will open in a new browser window. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Can this function be duplicated using CSS
Hi Jeff The answer/question is not whether this can be done with CSS, but rather can it be done with standards-based design. CSS defines the presentation of a page and not the behavior. Your example is using a hover activity to cause a section to scroll. This would be better done with DOM oriented JavaScript. There are some very talented JavaScript programmers on this list, Thierry and Patrick to name two, that could describe the steps involved in replacing this flash movie with semantic code. Ted www.tdrake.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:44 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Can this function be duplicated using CSS http://www.electrabike.com/04/bikes/05bikes/cls/05_cls_01.html The scrolling section...can this feature/function be duplicated using nothing but CSS? The entire scroll effect, the links and targets, etc. If so can someone be kind enough to explain how and give some url examples to tutorials that help in accomplishing this? Thanks Jeff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] apologies and Microsoft question
Sorry gang for not unsubscribing temporarily. I hope I didn't send out a truckload of out of office reminders. I was at the Business Blog Summit in San Francisco. Microsoft had a large presence; they even bought our support by handing out some absolutely fab messenger bags. Regardless of my ability to be swayed by super-cool swag, I have a question. They kept talking about a new feature, that if adopted by web sites, would allow RSS feeds and whatnot to be more universal. I believe they called it list extension. Question: Is this another proprietary browser feature or a schema for xml tags? If it is a schema, how does it relate to the Dublin Core and the Semantic Web? The audience was mostly business people and marketing types, the last thing they wanted to hear about was xml, schemas, and god forbid RSS feeds (Scoble and Dave Taylor argued for 30 minutes in one session about full feeds vs. abbreviated feeds... snore... Ford vs. Chevy... snore...). So they talked about the virtues and left the tech a mystery. Did I mention how cool the bag was? Must like IE7...Must like IE7... Must like IE7 For some reason, this keeps repeating in my mind every time I pick up the magnificently useful and hip bag. Ted Drake www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] html design - best practices
Hi Dwain
I try to avoid using spans as much as possible. It's not that they are bad,
but that they could be avoided in many instances.
It takes me back to something that an editor once taught me. She said that I
should think twice before using the word that. It can usually be removed
and the sentence written more efficiently. I took that advice to heart and
use it the same way that I would code using spans.
Get the idea? A page full of spans is like a paragraph full of thats.
Think twice before using a span. Should this section be a header, link or a
definition list? If not, feel free to use a span. It is great for changing
small sections of inline text.
I also like to use spans creatively with CSS. a href=blah
spannbsp;/span/a. Use absolute positioning to place the span at the
top of the page, make it a block and place a background image to create a
secondary link on another part of the page (Was this from Andy Budd or
Stopdesign?)
I've also used spans h3blah spanedit/spanh3 to take the edit or
whatever text and do something different with it, such as float it to the
right. Remember, you don't need to put a class on your spans.
If you use your spans sparingly and selectively, you can just target them by
their parents:
a span, dt span, label span {font-weight:normal;}
h3 span {float:right;}
Have fun with that there tag.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:46 AM
To: wsg
Subject: [WSG] html design - best practices
hello,
i've been lurking for a while and commenting occasionally, and i
appreciate the change of venue. i am a designer learning about
development. i have become more interested in web standards for the
past year. thanks for the post about westciv (x)html class, i feel that
i am ready for it now.
here's my question. i have a page with text that i want highlighted. i
currently have the text in atext/a and styled with css. what is
the best practice, semantically, to achieve this, as strong is not
what i want, because i don't want someone to get yelled at by their
screen reader. i guess what i am looking to do is emphasize the text so
it will stand out on the page and be treated the same by a screen
reader. is this what the em tag is for?
dwain
--
Dwain Alford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com
The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression.
Wassily Kandinsky, Concerning The Spiritual In Art
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[WSG] attribute selectors question
Hi All I have a quick question. I don't seem to be running on all cylinders and I can't remember how to write the css that would look for a link that has .pdf in the href. A [href???.pdf]... Or am I mixing up my CSS and javascript? I need some coffee. Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Font Size Re-sizing
Hi Janelle
This is CSS shorthand, it is the same as font-size:x-small;
line-height:130%; font-family...;}
Personally, I like to write out the long format while testing my pages. I
just seem to have less bugs when I don't shorten the body font styles.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Janelle Clemens
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 2:15 PM
To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org'
Subject: RE: [WSG] Font Size Re-sizing
We are in the middle of redesigning our company's website and after using pt
for so long ems have been challenging to get used to. I have declared body
{font-size: 1em;} and have adjusted from there (i.e. sidenav {font-size:
0.80em;}.Can you explain what the slash in your example is (body {font:
x-small/130% Veranda, Arial, san-serif;}).Is this a browser hack?
Thanks,
Janelle
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Darren Wood
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:55 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Font Size Re-sizing
I know there are a lot of old school designers out there (and when I say
designer I mean those people who spend their hours in photoshop and NOT
doing the markup) who still insist that font-sizes be in point size. That
is simply not practical in the web-space (as, I'm sure you know)...generally
I ignore them and their silly point sizes. I find the best method for font
resizing is using the keyword syntax, i.e.
xx-small, x-small, small, large, etc
Generally I'd set the base font to x-small/small (depending on what the
design shows) and then use em's to inc them for headers and strong tags,
etc.
body {
font: x-small/130% Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
color: #333;
}
h1 {
font-size: 2em;
}
h2 {
fon-size: 1.8em;
}
...
...
HTH
D
On 8/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
G'day Mates,
I've reviewed articles on A List Apart and the WSG sites, as well as,
The CSS Anthology, but I really would like a more defintive answer
pertaining to the best method for re-sizing text.
Therefore, I thought it prudent to turn to the experts!
The following is my current set of rules for allowing visitors to zoom
text:
body
{margin: 0;
padding: 0;
font-size: 76%;
background: #6A6A8F;}
#container
{width: 100%;
font: normal 1em/14pt verdana, arial, sans-serif;
text-align: justify;
background: #fff;}
Any advice regarding this important design and accessible feature is
greatly appreciated!
Respectfully submitted,
Mario S. Cisneros
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RE: [WSG] Win IE hacks -- Please help!
Bookmark http://www.positioniseverything.net/ It has saved many people from restless nights. Whenever IE is causing you to scream at the wall, visit the site and it will tell you how to fix that particular bug. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janelle Clemens Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:10 PM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: [WSG] Win IE hacks -- Please help! We are redesigning our company website and I am in charge of creating the templates. We are moving into XHTML and pure stylesheets which has been (and is still) a really amazing learning curve. We have always had to code cross browser but with this redesign we are finally chucking Netscape 4.7 and Mac IE (yippie). Windows IE has always been our savior as far as doing what you wanted it to do but now that we are moving into pure css and tabless we have suddenly discovered the evils of Win IE. I have searched high and low to find ways around IE css issues but have recently stumbled on the underscore (underscore in front of the css tag, i.e. _height). I've also seen slash stars which I have tried to decipher but got a headache instead. We currently are using a sniffer for Win IE but I would really like to try keep the win_ie.css as minimal as possible. What good hacks are there for Win IE like the underscore where other browsers don't render. Oh, yeah, I found the star (* html, * body) one as well. That's a good one too. But it would be nice to have a full list for a one stop shop. :-) My recent headache is trying to create a column/row of cells, like what tables used to be used for, but with the display properties table, table-row, table-column, table-cell. And after seeing how beautifully they are rendered in Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape 7 I want to figure out how to force Win IE to render them too. Any suggestions? Oh yeah, I can not give set heights to the divs because the content is flexible (more or less depending on the page). Thanks, Janelle ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy
Hi All We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the user's browser / making it more user-friendly. What is the general feeling towards having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window? I personally find it annoying to open a pdf document in the native window and having to wait for the reader to load. I usually right-click and open in a new window. However, I know some people expect that to happen and could lose their place if a bunch of windows are opened. I would use the _javascript_ approach to avoid using target="_blank". This should avoid the complications of having PDA devices or screen readers attempting to open multiple windows. So, I told my co-workers that I would throw this out to the standards community. Try to ignore any bias I may have. I would appreciate any honest feedback about whether we should open new windows for .pdf, .doc, .ppt, xls, .visio, or .whatever. Thanks Ted Drake Web Collaboration Services Science Applications International Corporation 858.826.3856 / 858.826.3336 (fax)
[WSG] blog business summit
Hi All Is there anyone on this list that is going to the blog business summit in San Francisco this week? I'd like to meet and say hello to any fellow list members. http://www.blogbusinesssummit.com/index.htm?businesslogs Ted www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] I'm on a question roll.... background images on links
Hi Paul I should have mentioned that the link normally appears within paragraphs of text. It will sometimes appear as a link inside a list. Floating is an interesting option for other applications. Thanks Ted - Floating the link left as well as display:block should make the image sit at the end of the text, as opposed to spaning the width of the page. This can cause problems in a few older browsers such as Netscape 6, as once you float something left it is no longer a block element. Hope that makes sense. --- We are using a background image on links to signify they are external. The image sits on the right side of the link using background: url() 100% 0; All is fine in firefox, but in IE the icon overlaps or sits at the top when the text wraps to a second line. Is there a way to make the background image follow the text inside a link rather than looking at the link as a block? I've tried display: inline-block and that made the spacing better, but didn't fix the issue. Here's an example Good link: | Google Virtual | | World (icon) | Bad link: | Google Virtua(icon) | The icon sits at the top and doesn't | World | flow with the text Has anyone found a way to fix this? I don't want to go back to inline images and our standard is to have the icon on the right and not the left. Otherwise, I would have placed it on the left and it would have been a cake-walk. P.S. sorry about an earlier html formatted email, I try to send them in plain text. Thanks Ted Drake www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Reason for leaving
Here is something to remember, even if disabled visitors are not your main concern. The biggest blind user in the world is Google. Code your pages correctly, delivering friendly pages to the disabled and Google, and your customers will benefit in many ways. It's not just about doing what is charitable. It is about doing what is best for everyone. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Duncan Stigwood Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 10:36 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Reason for leaving On 12/08/05, Brian Grimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This forum has unfortunately degraded from a useful resource in regards to properly writing code for use by those with disabilities to just another HTML help group... Are the disabed really the main priority when it comes to web standards? I'm new to web design as a job and I like the fact I know the standards and am on this list because I see it as the niche in the market that'll help me be a successful freelancer. For me coding to standards has been more about being state of the art than anything else. Knowing that behind the pretty interface is slim and sexy coding. I always laughed off the disability thing the same way you do when there are no spaces in the supermarket car park except all the disabled spots. Is there really that many disabled internet users? I would like to know. :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy
Hi Damian Thanks for the feedback. We use CSS to place an icon in front of the link to illustrate the file format as well as the (filename.pdf, 35k) designation. Is there anyone out there that supports opening in a new window? If not, it looks like I will suggest we keep it behavior-free. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Damian Sweeney Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy Hi Ted, I would say let the user decide. Wherever possible I try to provide enough information in the link itself so that the user knows what to expect and can proceed as they wish. Many people will set up their browser to deal with different file types according to their preference (open the document in the browser, open it in the application, download the file). Opening in a new window removes user choice. By providing a plain link you give users the option that you use of `right-click - open in new window`. How do I choose to open a new-window-link in the current window if that is my preference? The only time I open links (to web pages) in a new window is when I have to place a link inside someone else's frame and I warn the user that I'm doing it. I wouldn't use a new window for the downloadable documents you are referring to. Unexpected pdfs are annoying, especially for low-bandwidth users. So, I would recommend something like: a href=document.pdfSome stuff (pdf format, 200kb)/a Include all the info in the link, if you can, for people who only read the links. Cheers, Damian Hi All We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the user's browser / making it more user-friendly. What is the general feeling towards having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window? -- Damian Sweeney Learning Skills Adviser (online) Language and Learning Skills Unit Instructional Designer, AIRport Project Equity, Language and Learning Programs University of Melbourne 723 Swanston St Parkville 3010 www.services.unimelb.edu.au/ellp/ www.services.unimelb.edu.au/llsu/ airport.unimelb.edu.au/ ph 03 8344 9370, fax 03 9349 1039 This email and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any unauthorised use, disclosure or copying of any part of it is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email or any attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please delete it and notify us by return email or by phoning (03) 8344 9370. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy
I fall in line with Gary. I'm savvy enough to right-click on pdf links but when I forget to do it, I'm aggrevated by the browser having to load the reader software. I would be happy to have it open a new window. This is for an intranet site, but I think the discussion is valid for all web sites. I use this: return false; instead of target="_blank". Jeremy Keith recently spoke about using the class in the link to target a _javascript_ to add the behavior, leaving a nice, clean link. Correct me if I'm wrong. By replacing the target with the script, we are bypassing the issue of screenreaders and portable devices getting confused with multiple windows. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Menzel Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:18 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] accessibility - opening new windows philosophy There is a flip-side to the no new window recommendation.. Many of our users are very computer illiterate and giving them too many options confuses them. We do open our PDF documents in a new window and never have any complaints about it. We DO get complaints, though, when things are too hard to use or if the page they were on disappars because we opened a document in that same window or if the file downloaded and they can't find it (happened regularly before we launched the PDF in another window). We also get complaints from Mac users for similar reasons (because, apparently, the default behaviours that have sometimes been set up always just download files to one place and dont give the user an option of saying where they want the file - and then they can't find it). I'm all for web-standards - but when a user base clearly has problems in dealing with a move to a standard then I would prefer to cater for my user base over the standard. There are always exceptions to every rule. Regards, Gary On 8/16/05, Damian Sweeney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ted, I would say let the user decide. Wherever possible I try to provide enough information in the link itself so that the user knows what to expect and can proceed as they wish. Many people will set up their browser to deal with different file types according to their preference (open the document in the browser, open it in the application, download the file). Opening in a new window removes user choice. By providing a plain link you give users the option that you use of `right-click - open in new window`. How do I choose to open a new-window-link in the current window if that is my preference? The only time I open links (to web pages) in a new window is when I have to place a link inside someone else's frame and I warn the user that I'm doing it. I wouldn't use a new window for the downloadable documents you are referring to. Unexpected pdfs are annoying, especially for low-bandwidth users. So, I would recommend something like: a href="" stuff (pdf format, 200kb)/a Include all the info in the link, if you can, for people who only read the links. Cheers, Damian Hi All We've had a discussion at work about pdf documents and hijacking the user's browser / making it more user-friendly.What is the general feeling towards having pdf and other non-html documents open in a new window? -- Damian Sweeney Learning Skills Adviser (online) Language and Learning Skills Unit Instructional Designer, AIRport Project Equity, Language and Learning Programs University of Melbourne 723 Swanston St Parkville 3010 www.services.unimelb.edu.au/ellp/ www.services.unimelb.edu.au/llsu/ airport.unimelb.edu.au/ ph 03 8344 9370, fax 03 9349 1039 This email and any attachments may contain personal information or information that is otherwise confidential or the subject of copyright. Any unauthorised use, disclosure or copying of any part ofit is prohibited. The University does not warrant that this email orany attachments are free from viruses or defects. Please check any attachments for viruses and defects before opening them. If this email is received in error please delete it and notify us by returnemail or by phoning (03) 8344 9370. ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Building a tree/table
Hi Fred I don't want to repost the information because it was a bit lengthy, but you may want to visit this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg17305.html I have put together a nested unordered list and use a series of classes on the body and id attributes on the list and link elements to create an expanding contracting tree with arrows and whatnot. I haven't used the dotted lines to show the branches but this could probably be done with background images. Let me know if it doesn't make sense and I can also send you an updated example that accounts for elements that have no children. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Eisele Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:05 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Building a tree/table I am trying to create a combined tree/table view using web standards. If you don't know what a tree/table is take a look at the following example. http://books.mozdev.org/screenshots/moz_0904.gif Two parts to this question... 1) how should the content be structured? 2) how would the styling work? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Printed web pages with text cut in half at the bottom o f the page?
I saw an interesting snippet, I think it was on the W3C site. It was a
conditional comment that kept a section from being cropped by a printed
page. I was just searching trough my old files and can't find it right now.
If I remember correctly, it was a rule that said
@print... #importantsection {avoid break within this block;}
Obviously the above is a very rough sketch of the actual rule. Does anyone
else know of this? I thought it was a useful idea and tried it on a page, I
just can't remember which page.:(
Ted
www.tdrake.net
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of James Denholm-Price
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:58 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Printed web pages with text cut in half at the bottom of
the page?
Hi Bennie [EMAIL PROTECTED],
On 8/11/05, Bennie, Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Has anyone encountered the problem, when printing a web page, where the
last
line of text is being cut in half?
By this I mean that the top half of the letters print on one page and the
bottom half print on the next.
Any suggestions as to what might be causing this and how to stop it? I've
run some tests and it doesn't seem to be browser specific...
Can you quote an example?
According to discussion on css-d (e.g. [1]) it's often related to
floated elements -- it seems best to simplify your layout as much as
possible using a print style sheet to help current browsers to print
sensibly. See [2] for some more info.
HTH,
James
[1] http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/60217
[2] http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=PrintStylesheets
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RE: [WSG] Printed web pages with text cut in half at the bottom o f the page?
Hi Patrick
That is exactly what I was thinking of. Do you know what the support is for
this statement?
I was thinking of using it to keep a legal disclaimer from being split
between two pages. I've just had other things to deal with before working
with it more.
Does this answer the original question about cropping?
Ted
Drake, Ted C.
I saw an interesting snippet, I think it was on the W3C site. It was a
conditional comment that kept a section from being cropped by
a printed
page. I was just searching trough my old files and can't find
it right now.
If I remember correctly, it was a rule that said
@print... #importantsection {avoid break within this block;}
The selector would depend on the structure of the actual HTML, but
assuming you have something like
body
...
div id=content
...
div
/div
...
div
/div
...
/div
...
/body
and you wanted to avoid breaks within the child divs of #content, you
could probably have something like
#content div { page-break-inside: avoid; }
or, more generally if you want to avoid any breaks of any elements (which
could be dangerous, depending on how long the individual elements are)
#content * { page-break-inside: avoid; }
Not tested this, by the way...so I may be talking absolute bobbins ;)
P
__
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
__
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Display: markerRE: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division
I wonder if the display:markers would be useful for this? Has anyone played around with it before? From what I understand, the display marker can be best understood when looking at a list item. The bullet is the marker and the list information is the block it is associated with. Could the text you are using be given display:marker and then given a position of top:50%? I haven't messed with this property and I don't know what the support is like. I can imagine a certain browser has no idea what I'm talking about. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/generate.html#markers Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel Radford Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 3:13 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division Hi everyone, I'm replying to this because I am also stuck on the same issue. I have horizontal navigation that is floated (son of suckerfish style) and that has relative widths for scalable fonts. Some of the navigation text runs onto two lines, and some of them are short enough to be on one line. So problem is the one-liners are at the top of the navigation item and I would like them to be vertically centered. Can't use line-height trick because then the two liner nav items get massive line spacing! Menu is generated dynamically from CMS database so can't muck with the source code in any way. Is there any other reliable way of mimicking the old-school valign for table layouts? I realy don't want to use hacky stuff or any javascript stuff cause already there is so much hacks just for IE!!! Rach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Wednesday, 10 August 2005 3:16 a.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Align text vertically in a division [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I am sure that you have described this issue thousand times before, but I cannot find the trick that will do this easily : how do you center text vertically in a division ? Easy to do with tables of course, but I would like to avoid using tables at all. euh ... as we say in French ... sorry if the question seems stupid. Pat There is no such thing as a stupid question. However, there are often stupid answers, and this may be one of them: CenteringTextVertically-- css-d wiki. http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringTextVertically Regards, David Laakso -- David Laakso http://www.dlaakso.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] slop factor-- curing float drops in IE
Bruce
If you don't want your columns to drop down you need to make sure the sum of
the columns widths does not equal more than the width of the container. If
you need a tight layout, it's worth spending some time to establish filters
to deliver special widths to IE.
I believe most people go for the easier slop factor (whether they realize
it or not). Make your columns skinny enough to leave a gutter between the
two columns. For instance, the content div is 770px wide. The maincontent
div is 550px and the sidebar is 200px wide. This gives you 20px for slop
factor. Float the maincontent to the right, the sidebar to the left and
you've got that 20px between them.
Now use the faux column background approach to apply a background image that
visually defines the two columns and you have a fairly simple two column
layout that will behave fairly well.
It's not perfect, nor bullet proof, as you are just ignoring the browser
behaviors and leaving room for misbehavior. But if your layout doesn't
require perfect control, this will do just fine.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 6:40 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] curing float drops in IE
I am always having trouble with my floats dropping below the container
\s they are being floated against in IE. Other than reducing the
amount of space (since IE adds extra padding I believe), is there a
good way to prevent this from occurring?
for example I have two columns with the css as:
#left_column{/*positioning for left column*/
float:left;
width:310px;
margin-left:15px;
}
#right_column{/*positioning for right column*/
width:448px;
margin-left:360px;
padding-left:10px;
}
and the right column drops down in IE
--
::Bruce::
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RE: [WSG] A web site programming question
This is usually off-topic, but I would like to add that WASP has been working with Macromedia and it looks like it has paid off. Macromedia is announcing the new Dreamweaver 8 and it looks like their support for standards-based programming has grown tremendously. The flash movie has a sneak preview and the sample code in the movie, i.e. watch how easy this is to work in the code section... is clean and semantic. So, if you are looking into Dreamweaver, see if you can get the new version. I'm looking forward to upgrading. It would be nice to switch from code to design and actually see the page the way a browser would display a css based web page. http://www.macromedia.com/software/studio/experience/ Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Angus at InfoForce Services Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 10:11 AM To: WSG List Subject: [WSG] A web site programming question I do not know if this is off topic for this list. Just incase please reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you. I am a web site designer that hand codes with EditPlus and like to build header and footer files (basic template(. I am about to start working with an individual that uses FrontPage for web site design. I am not impressed with WYSIWYG editors and FrontPage even less. I am looking at purchaseing DreamWeaver for future web site design. What would be your advice to ensure that everything meets web standards? Angus MacKinnon MacKinnon Crest Saying Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat English - Fortune Assists The Daring Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. 2nd Vice president Choroideremia Research Foundation Canada Inc. 1st Vice President http://www.choroideremia.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] self-counting list items
Hi All
I've been struggling with the ability to increment nested ordered lists.
I'm trying to update a page that was built with multiple paragraphs that
lead off with b1.1/b...b1.2/b Etc etc
Naturally, I'd like to replace these with
ol
li
li
.
I was looking through the w3c specs and came across this example that seems
to be perfect. But I can't get it to work. Has anyone worked with this
before?
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/generate.html#scope
12.5.1 Nested counters and scope
Counters are self-nesting, in the sense that re-using a counter in a child
element automatically creates a new instance of the counter. This is
important for situations like lists in HTML, where elements can be nested
inside themselves to arbitrary depth. It would be impossible to define
uniquely named counters for each level.
Example(s):
Thus, the following suffices to number nested list items. The result is very
similar to that of setting 'display:list-item' and 'list-style: inside' on
the LI element:
OL { counter-reset: item }
LI { display: block }
LI:before { content: counter(item) . ; counter-increment: item }
...
The following style sheet numbers nested list items as 1, 1.1, 1.1.1,
etc.
OL { counter-reset: item }
LI { display: block }
LI:before { content: counters(item, .); counter-increment: item }
I'm checking this in firefox on win.
Ted
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RE: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks
Hi Al I didn't realize you were on the list. Your web site and coding was an inspiration to me when I first switched to CSS and standards-based design. Thanks Ted www.tdrake.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sparber Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks From: Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Proper IE Hacks When using these filters, be careful - IE7 is coming... Wise words. Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] firefox for OS9?
Sorry for a possibly off-topic post. We have a client on our intranet that needs to look at our site on OS9.2. I couldn't find information on the Firefox web site about compatibility with this platform. Does anyone know where I could send this person for more advice? I did find the Opera version for her. http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?platform=macver=6.03 I'd like to give her both options. Is there a Safari version for OS9? Thanks You can send a response off-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Flash and Standards
Hi Bruce The flash satay seems to be the standard for flash http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ There is a new technique, I believe. But this works pretty darn well. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 2:20 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Flash and Standards Hi all, I'm sure this has been covered someplace, but when actually running into it on a busy schedule...you know the rest. A simple flash button for audio, from wimpy. Validator says: There is no attribute for: embed src=""> Nor for: quality, name, width, height, pluginsPage, and of course embed is undefined. At about this point one has a tendency to throw out webstandards completely or the demo. Several hours of fiddling with this didn't help. Not to blame webstandards for my lack of knowledge, but...sheesh. Any ideas besides taking a 2 month long course? Does Macromedia have a place to make their code work with Valid CSS? Bruce Prochnau BKDesign Solutions
[WSG] IE question - user style sheets
I have an IE question In Firefox, I can choose an alternate page style quite easily. Is there an easy way for them to do the same thing in IE? I found the option to adjust all pages with a user-created style but I didn't see an option for choosing an alternate style being offered by that web site. Thanks Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list
Hi Bruce I'm working on a bug right now so I don't have much time For more control over the dt positioning, apply position:relative to the dl and then use absolute positioning for the dt. Or use negative margins to move it without the positioning. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:51 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] a few more issues with page layout with definition list Hello, thanks for the information about using a definition list to layout thumbnail images and text. I think this is a great way to do things. I am still having some layout issues looking at firefox on the PC though. take a look at http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file_home.htm and the CSS at http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/WDM.css the thumbnail images and the text, aren't quite aligning like I want.The dt shoul align to the right off the image above the dd list. and a little for space between the image and text. another small issue I am seeing is the picture with the hand holding the key has some unwanted spacing at the top before you get to the darker green bar. I need to get rid of that spacing and am not sure where it is coming from. Any assistance on this is greatly appreciated!!! -- ::Bruce:: ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] expanding / contracting sections
Expanding and collapsing content has been near the front of my brain for the past week or so and I thought I'd send out a request to the group for better answers. Here's the goal: Have the ability to open and close content sections by clicking on the header. Don't hide the content from users with _javascript_ disabled. Don't require the targeted elements to be hard-coded inside the _javascript_. Don't insert new images into the content to signify the area is expandable and/or collapsible. Require as little coding as possible in the XHTML pages. Allow the _javascript_ to be used on many different pages/sites as possible. A cookie remembers what the person has opened or closed. My experiences so far have been ok. I am using a script on my site right now that allows me to open and close sections in the left nav. (http://www.tdrake.net) I was up until late last night trying to modify it to use CSS instead of inserted images and have gotten it close. Each section is enclosed in a div with class="hideContent" . Inside is an h3 and usually an unordered list. When the page loads, the divs have the class to collapse. The h3 should have a background image that says, hey open me (not so literally) and the unordered list should be display:none. When you click on the h3, the div class changes to showContent and the unordered list is display:block. The background on the h3 should now scream: close me. The problems with this setup: The targeted elements have unique id's that are written in the _javascript_ as an array. This customization avoids letting me use this on multiple sites The content is not visible to those with _javascript_ disabled. I could easily set it to show the content as a default and then hope people close it. I'd prefer that the content is closed visually on load. I can't get the h3 backgrounds to work (I'm sure I am just not seeing something right now. Maybe more coffee is needed) Here's my question: Is there a _javascript_ out there that can already handle these desires? How could I modify this one to not require the hard-coded array and to collapse the content onload but still show the information to those with _javascript_ disabled? I looked at the accordion script on www.openrico.org but it doesn't' look like it handles mulitiple sections opened at the same time. It's possible that someone would want to open all of my channels or close all. Thanks Ted www.tdrake.net
RE: [WSG] how should I mark this up ? (thumbnail links)
Defintion list to the rescue.
Gawd, it's been ages since I said that
div id=thumbnailheaders
dl
dtFree Applications/dt
dd class=imageholderimg.../dd
dddefining text/dd
/dl
dl
dtCost estimate/dt
dd class=imageholderimg.../dd
dddefining text/dd
/dl
dl
dtmain link text/dt
dd class=imageholderimg.../dd
dddefining text/dd
/dl
/div
CSS:
A img {border:none;}/*get rid of the border on a linked image */
Dl {width: 200px; float:left; margin:0 10px /*something to separate them*/}
Dt, dd {float:right; width:100px;}
dd.imageholder {float:left;}
This is very rough, but can give you an idea on how to use semantic markup
and achieve the positioning you desire.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bruce Gilbert
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] how should I mark this up ? (thumbnail links)
I have a test site set up at
http://www.wealthdevelopmentmortgage.com/test/test_file.htm
and part of it I am struggling as the best way to code it. That would
be the thumbnail images links you see around the middle of the page
(free applications, cost estimate, one on one).
right now I have a container div and individual divs to separate the images.
My first problem is I want to get rid of the border around the images,
since they are links.
my second problem is I need the link txt to line up to the top right
of the images and have some more text below it which explains what the
link is.
This is probably no simple, but any suggestions are appreciated.
--
::Bruce::
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RE: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/
I found the site fairly nice. I thought there was a nice use of white space. There looks like a stray in the headlines. I was surprised by the use of small tags. Were those deprecated or are they viable? The orange headlines on orange background is a bit low contrast. I like the blue center channel. My attention went to it quickly. I also noticed an a name=""/a next to a header with an id. I'm assuming it is just some legacy code. I think the number of nested divs could be reduced to clean up the code, but otherwise I think it is a valiant effort. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Menzel Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:35 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] New front page for http://abc.net.au/ For some reason - the layout is quite different between IE and Firefox. The Firefox layout seems to be 1024x768 based. The IE one seems to be based on an 800 width. This impacts the IE experience by providing missing or cropped images instead of the full ones (again part of the design) and layout of the Radio, Television, Broadband is not as appealing on the IE version. And there are actually different articles being displayed below that (even after a refresh of both browsers). I dont understand why this would need to be done like this unless there was some non-agnostic browser policy at work. And you know people - if it's the Government they like to manufacture conspiracies. However, as far as standards are concerned. All DIV/UL based - not a table in sight. This is good. But most of the links on the page dont have a title attribute. This would potentially score low marks for accessibility. Regards, Gary Menzel On 8/4/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been waiting for one of the Australian members of the mailing list to comment on the new look/code for http://abc.net.au/ so I might as well raise the issue myself. I personally had nothing to do with the design, code or any other aspect of it (apart from being involved in a very broad consultative process), but I'd be interested in a WSG perspective. Have You Validated Your Code? John Horner(+612 / 02) 8333 3488 Developer, ABC Kids Onlinehttp://www.abc.net.au/ ** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] background images fluid
Hi Bruce Instead of stretching an image, try the sliding doors approach. This may seem odd in a photograph, but could work in situations where the image has a repeatable section. #wrap gets the left corner with generic content. #innerwrap gets the right side with the juicy part of the image. As the page gets smaller the juicy part of the image gets closer to the left side and overlaps the generic section. As the page gets wider, the juicy part moves to the right unveiling the generic section. I know this sounds really vague, but read up on the sliding doors technique. I think stopdesign.com did a tutorial on this. I've used it for creating a background with distinct edges that needed to stretch. Hope this helps. Ted - ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] standards resources
Hi All I have worked with various museums over the past few years and I am setting up a new web site for standards-based resources for museums and non-profit organizations. I'd like to ask those that have put together standards-galleries, resources, repositories, etc in the past if they have any suggestions on what should be offered, put together, etc. I will be using wordpress and wiki. You can send responses off-list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Ted ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] converting legacy code
Hi all
I'm in the process of updating old style sheets on an enormous site with
lots of legacy bad code. The goal of this css update is to make the shift
seamless, yet offer new features for programmers to begin coding the content
section with semantic markup. As we move towards css-based layout the code
will be in better condition for transferring.
Here are a few lessons I've learned.
When the body tag is filled with link definitions, avoid placing colors in
the style sheet. The first draft of the style sheet copied these colors (a
{color:#069;}-just and example). However, we began noticing conflicts with
various elements that had spans and font colors assigned. Once again, the
goal was to keep the shift seamless for now.
Don't assign text decoration, bold, color, etc to the a tag. This was
causing issues with elements that were wrapped in a name= tags.
Therefore, I needed to minimize my link styles and apply them to a:link,
a:visited, etc.
When dealing with pages that do not have id's associated with chunks, look
for commonly repeated nested classes.
For instance, I was able to target a section that was commonly marked up
with a class=fontsizespan class=textdecorationblah
It would have been easier to say #headline but instead it was a.fontsize
.textdecoration {blah}
When introducing new, properly marked up data tables, we're giving them a
class and all new table styles are only applied to that class of tables.
There are more lessons that we've learned from this and I will post them to
my blog www.tdrake.net within the month. I just had the itch to send out a
few tips while I had a breather.
Ted
www.tdrake.net
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RE: [WSG] Content too large
Hi Fletcher This is nothing unusual and points out the advantages of a liquid layout. If your content is text, try setting your left and right divs with percentage widths instead of px. For instance: maincontent=65%, navigation:30%. If your wide content is a photograph, you will need to come up with a different solution. Personally, I have hit this wall. I want to use images that are large in my gallery, 500-550px and this does not leave much room for a left nav. The solution? -Ignore 800X600 users -Allow the user to collapse the leftnav -Put the content first in the source code and let the nav drop to the bottom of the screen -? I like the liquid approach on www.simplebits.com . Try his stylesheet widget to see how you can use more of the real-estate. What other solutions are out there? Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher Chambers Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:10 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Content too large The setup: Simple 2 column layout. The left column is floated for navigation, the right column is the content. The problem: I sometimes have content that is too wide for the right column. Therefore, in Explorer the content jumps below the floated navigation leaving a huge gap at the top of my right column. Sometimes there is so much navigation that it appears that there is no content because of the gap created. Question: Does anyone see any other technique, fix, layout change, or something, that I could do to make it so Explorer doesn't give me the huge amount of white space at the top of the right column. Code: http://www.toopractical.com/temp/index.htm http://www.toopractical.com/temp/index.css To see the problem, use Explorer and shrink your window's width until the content jumps below the left column. Thanks for your help, Fletcher ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] image + title
I prefer the definition list approach. There may be arguments if it is semantically proper, but I like to put the image in the dt and the caption in the dd. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Wood Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:11 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: Terrence Wood Subject: Re: [WSG] image + title Russ has a method for creating an image gallery from definition lists at http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/dl-image- gallery.htm kind regards Terrence Wood. On 27 Jul 2005, at 1:34 AM, akella wrote: I just want to display image with a shrto description below it. And i want that combination to float. What is the right semantic markup for this thing. IS it right to use this p class=lfigure img / span/span /p or may be there is some kind of microformat for this situation? -- glhf, akella. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Blue language - was [WSG] Re: Fed Up
I'm not the list monitor, but I would recommend anyone preparing to use blue language think twice before hitting the send button. There are many reasons to not place it on this mailing list. For one, it can get the mailinglist banned by overzealous filtering software. Two, these messages have a life of their own in google and you may not want to have this represent your online personality. I'll leave the rest of the administration to the honorable list admin. He/she will probably say this thread is closed. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jorge Laranjo Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Fed Up You are in WSG ML Please don't send this to the list. *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Problem in Firefox on initial page load only
I did a quick look at it and it seems to be a float issue. I floated the contentcontainer and it stretched to contain all of the elements. I wish I had more time to do a better analysis. I would suggest looking at your floats and seeing if you can clear them better. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AntonyG Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Problem in Firefox on initial page load only I have a problem with a site in Firefox for Windows that only appears upon first loading the site. Refreshing the page or reloading the site clears the problem completely and doesn't seem to replicate until a new browser session is opened. I'm very puzzled as to why it happens and would appreciate any assistance in tracking down the cause. The problem is that the background colour of the main content area doesn't reach down to the bottom of the container, even though it should (and does upon refresh!). I have uploaded an image showing the problem indicated by the red arrow here: http://www.antonygolding.com/trisalford.jpg (670kb) You can probably see the problem live by visiting the site in Firefox/Windows, and see that it's resolved by refreshing the page once. Thanks in advance for any help, Antony ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE
I agree. I think. Ted From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mugur Padurean Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:36 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE Ted, now, why did you give IE another brake ? It's always gonna need another one and there's nothing we can do about that for now. Problem is every time we hack for IE we buy it a little more time. And frankly ... that's a BAD idea. We found the best grammar (standards) for the web and we made them reality. We did not, however, found a way to bring IE producers [ :D] to even patch the darn thing. Lot's of questions here ... Things are gonna change with IE 7, you say? Hello stranger ! [ hand wave ] Welcome to Earth. We mean you no harm You know, I just realize that most of IE problems show their ugly, twisted heads around cofee time ( for any developer/designer ). Preferably before you had one. That's ...odd :) If it makes you feel better : I had my sister's 4 year girl ( adorable ) stay with me last night - her ideea - until about 3 in the morning when mother came back to pick her up. We had tea with some dolls, trim the dogs hair a little, painted some walls and ... yes ... that ... we singed SONGS. Man THAT IS NO MATCH FOR IE. Way more frightening than anything IE can throw at me. And I had NO evening ... NO night ... and ... yes ... NO MORNING ! She's back ...
RE: [WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE
Sorry for another post. I just wanted to clarify. I didn't write the post on crashing IE. I cut and pasted the post by Eric Meyers. I thought it would be more convenient to provide his insights than to make you click on a link and go to his web site. There was also a link in there. I just don't want to take credit for the prose of someone else, Eric gets the kudos and observations, I was merely the messenger. Ted P.S. Patrick Lauke came up with a killer version of the zebra stripe _javascript_ which I am sure he will share with the list when it is ready. He deserves a round of applause for taking some time out of his day to help a fellow list member and eventually the entire community. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mugur Padurean Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:36 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE Ted, now, why did you give IE another brake ? It's always gonna need another one and there's nothing we can do about that for now. Problem is every time we hack for IE we buy it a little more time. And frankly ... that's a BAD idea. We found the best grammar (standards) for the web and we made them reality. We did not, however, found a way to bring IE producers [ :D] to even patch the darn thing. Lot's of questions here ... Things are gonna change with IE 7, you say? Hello stranger ! [ hand wave ] Welcome to Earth. We mean you no harm You know, I just realize that most of IE problems show their ugly, twisted heads around cofee time ( for any developer/designer ). Preferably before you had one. That's ...odd :) If it makes you feel better : I had my sister's 4 year girl ( adorable ) stay with me last night - her ideea - until about 3 in the morning when mother came back to pick her up. We had tea with some dolls, trim the dogs hair a little, painted some walls and ... yes ... that ... we singed SONGS. Man THAT IS NO MATCH FOR IE. Way more frightening than anything IE can throw at me. And I had NO evening ... NO night ... and ... yes ... NO MORNING ! She's back ...
[WSG] site check please
Hi All I've been working on a re-design of my web site and I know the code is still rough. However, I think I could use some outside eyeballs on the design. You know how things are when you look at it for too long... http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html I was trying to keep it liquid but I've settled on a more static approach and I will tell you now that I am sacrificing 800X600 monitors. They will have to do some scrolling. As a photographer, I wanted larger images in my galleries and feel this is an appropriate sacrifice. I'd appreciate comments on anything that looks broken, odd, messy, or whatever. I need to do some serious cleaning up on it this weekend and then transforming it to a theme for Wordpress. Thanks Ted www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
turning images off - RE: [WSG] site check please
Hi everyone
Georg brought up a great point.
The site design is completely illegible with images turned off. I have a
black background color set on the body and black text. I need to place a
white background on the content section to provide a readable area when the
images are disabled.
I think this is a very valid point for site design and I thank you for
pointing it out.
Thank you again for the comments, it will make my de-bugging this weekend
much more productive.
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:59 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] site check please
Drake, Ted C. wrote:
http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html
I really like the look of that one - but...
- Scrolling left isn't easy, so maybe try this adjustment:
body { padding-left: 95px;}
...tested in Opera, Firefox IE6.
(I can even make it line up perfectly in Opera 8's 'fit to window width'
with this adjustment.}
Major flaw:
- Redefine font-size on body for IE/win. Using Ems triggers the 'extreme
font-steps bug' in IE. Makes the columns overlap on 'largest' and text
unreadable on 'smallest'. Use '%' instead.
- Minor flaw on a photographer's site maybe, but trying to read the
page with 'images off' is 'no good'.
- Search could do with something like:
#search {min-height: 4em; _height: 4em;}
Other minor points:
- A few pixels of the background-image showing at the very bottom.
- Footer weak for font-resizing since the background don't size with it.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[WSG] javascript question - body onload events question
Hi All I've been trying to get a straight answer for this question from our Javascript person but haven't gotten it yet. I hope this is on-topic. Many of us are already using the great Zebra Tables from Alistapart.com It requires an onload event for the body tag and to include a link to the javascript file. This in itself is easy enough. However, our current site unfortunately has the body tag in an include. This would mean every page would have the body onload event whether or not it had a link to the javascript file and/or a table worth striping. Here are my questions for you. 1. Does it hurt to have an onload event without a link to the javascript? This assumes we add the link on pages that need it. 2. Are there any performance issues if the body onload event is added and the link to the javascript is added, yet the page has no table worth striping? This particular script is common enough to be analyzed. But in general is this an issue? I need to make a decision on this as soon as possible and any help is much appreciated. The pages are html tag soup. We are beginning our conversion with semantic coding of the content and new projects are using XHTML 1.0 transitional. Thanks again. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] extending Mike's onload event javascript
Hi Mike et al
I've set up your javascript and it is working like a charm. It is adding the
onload event.
Now, here's another question. You suggest how to add new events, but I'm not
sure exactly what to do.
Let's say I get so giddy over my tables that I decide to add the following
javascript to stripe my lists. (from the alistapart.com article's comments -
Vinnie Garcia)
function stripeList(theList, oddClass, evenClass)
{
//stripes a list's items
//parameters: a reference to the list you want striped (theList), the class
name for odd numbered items, and the class name for even numbered items
var listItems = theList.getElementsByTagName(li), i=0, currentItem;
while (currentItem = listItems[i++])
{
if (i % 2 == 0)
{
currentItem.className = evenClass;
}
else
{
currentItem.className = oddClass;
}
}
}
Vinnie suggests the following to activate it:
To run it, just use something like so:
window.onload = function ()
{
stripeList(document.getElementById(myList), oddRow, evenRow);
}
This may be a basic question, but your instructions said to add:
addevent(otherfunction);
+
Here's my question:
What is the function of this javascript? Is it stripeList? If so, where do
the above parameters get activated?
Thanks
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[WSG] Eric meyers on crashing IE
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2004/09/16/when-browsers-attack/
Remember my recently posted conversation with Molly? Boy, am I ever feelin'
that today. In spades.
Some of you have noticed earlier today that things were presentationally
unstable. Depending on when you dropped by, you would have seen raw document
presentation with no author styles at all, or some chunks of the site's
usual styles but not others, or all of the usual styles with a few oddities
thrown on top for good measure. For a few hours, during which I had to
attend to something else, the site was fine except that in IE/Win, the main
content column was quite a bit wider than usual, and some bits of content
were visually exceeding the edges of the design box. All that was happening
because I was turning styles on and off in an attempt to stop freezing
Internet Explorer for Windows.
Freezing? Oh, yes. As in locking it up so that people had to use the Task
Manager to force-quit the process. There were probably a few reboots out
there as well; there were at least a couple here in Casa de Meyer.
Ordinarily, I'd apologize. Not this time. If you want an apology, try
finding the person or persons responsible for IE's CSS handling, and demand
an apology from them. I'm not taking the rap for this.
To set the stage, let me back up a couple of days. As I passed by Kat's
office, she called out, Hey, how come my browser keeps getting screwed up?
Because it's Explorer, I said. Next question?
Ha ha. Seriously, every time I try to view your 'ten things to do in
Cleveland' post, the computer crashes. I think there's something wrong with
it.
Grumbling, I wandered over to her computer. Sure enough, the browser was
completely frozen. She'd already called up the Task Manager and was forcing
the browser to quit. She said it was the third time she'd had to do it. As I
watched, the screen went blank, then drew the desktop color and stopped. The
cursor appeared as an hourglass, and refused to change or even move.
Once the system had gone through a hard reboot, I fired up Netscape 7 and
loaded up meyerweb. I surfed around to various posts. No problems at all. I
then launched IE and loaded up the home page. No problem. I went to the
offending post. Instant freeze.
After a few more invocations of the Fatal Freeze, I wandered out of her
office again, muttering about Explorer and Windows and pondering the
possibility that her computer had been infected with some kind of virus,
malware, or other nastiness. But then, the next day, I got some e-mail
reporting similar problems. Then Ian Firth managed to get a comment in about
the problem on the post Really Undoing html.css, even though others were
getting the Fatal Freeze on that very post. And he mentioned that it was
happening in both IE and FeedDemon-which meant it was something in IE's
rendering engine, since FeedDemon just wraps itself around the engine. A
similar report cropped up in the FeedDemon forums this morning, where it was
mentioned that a similar problem had already been seen in the post
Standards Savings. (Not that anybody had actually bothered to tell me, but
hey, whatever.)
So I fired up VirtualPC this morning and tested the problem for myself. And
sure enough, I was very quickly the latest resident of Lockup City. So I
started narrowing down the cause. I'll spare you all the nasty details (and
foul language) of my bug hunt, and cut to the chase: the lockup was
happening on entry pages where the post content included an element that
used left padding. Blockquotes and lists were the prime triggers. There
wasn't an absolute 100% guarantee of trouble, but it was close. I could
avoid the freeze by commenting out a single declaration in my main style
sheet:
#main {
margin: 0 15em 0 0;
/* padding: 3em 4em 3em 4em; */
border-right: 1px solid #AAA;
background: #FFF;
min-height: 30em;
}
That's why the content was running rampant earlier today. I had to leave
that line commented out for a few hours. But I knew that couldn't be the
real cause, because it didn't cause freezes on the home page, or even on
monthly or daily archive pages. The freeze only happened on an individual
entry page where there was a padding-indented element inside the content
column. Thus, the source was most likely to lie in style sheet that's
applied only to post pages.
So I started digging through my entry style sheet until I narrowed the
problem down to this line:
.prev-next {margin: 0; padding: 0.25em 1% 0;
float: left; width: 98%;}
If I commented it out, and uncommented the padding declaration from before,
there were no problems. So the culprit lay somewhere in the .prev-next rule.
Anyone want to guess at the cause? Go ahead.
Oh, all right, I'll tell you. It was float: left;. As soon as I removed that
declaration, the IE6 freezing problem just melted away. So if you've
encountered freezes while trying to view entry pages in the past, you
shouldn't any more. (If you do, please comment on this entry with
RE: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000
I think Eric Meyers had a post on his site about a year ago about this problem on his site. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl Reynolds Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:03 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000 Dean | eCreate wrote: If anybody out there has Win 2000 running IE6 could you check this URL: http://www.stthomasaquinasacademy.org/ I am getting one report that it is loading but then hanging up IE. Thanks, Dean ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . Just saw your later message about browser width. If I view the page with IE filling the screen (1024x76), the page displays with no problem. If I reduce the window size, the browser hangs after displaying the page. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Two questions: SEO document structure and font resizing
Wasn't the original css ( * html
body {display;none;} ) meant as a joke to hide all content from IE users?
I would simply hate to see someone plop
that into their code and scratch their head for the next hour trying to figure
out what went wrong.
Ted
what does body{display:none;} do for
SEO? then the answer is not very much.
Taking Googlebot and Slurp as examples, they
don't parse CSS or script, they want content within the HTML and that's it.
Most hidden elements, i.e. white text on white background or display: none; for
example contain spammy keywords which will be parsed and ignored as
appropriate.
Rule: write
grammatically correct and verbose content and them search engines
will lap it up, regardless of how you present it. That's my experience anyway.
--
Eddie.
http://blog.tn38.net/
And what this mean for SEO
body, html {display: none!important;} ?
On
6/1/05, David Laakso [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
body,
html {display: none!important;}
RE: [WSG] nth child rule
Thanks for the answer. I didn't find the nth:child resource. Ted On 19 Jul 2005, at 1:56 am, Drake, Ted C. wrote: Here's my question, are there special rules for using nth-child pseudo classes? Beyond first, second, third, ... what are the labels? Sixth, seventh, tenth? That is what I would assume. Here's the prototype: http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html There is no such thing as 'third-child' and so one. Only ':first-child' (support: Gecko, Safari, Opera, iCab), :last-child (Gecko, partly in Safari) and :nth-child (no web browser supports this, currently). http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#first-child http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-selectors/#nth-child-pseudo Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Body tag background color changes
I have to agree about using body class instead of id. Here's what I'm using on one page body class=sub3 sub3sub1 sub3sub1sub4 asub3sub1sub4 This set of classes match with a set of id's in a nested list that is used for navigation. This has allowed me to open, close, change background colors, add icons to show that a parent list is open for children, etc. You can use multiple classes but multiple id's in a tag can create problems. For more info on this, I sent the entire css sheet to this mailing list a couple months ago, it's probably in the archive under when navigation lists go bad or some silly name like that. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Curtis Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:23 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Body tag background color changes On Jul 18, 2005, at 7:16 PM, Bert Doorn wrote: Just wondering whether there was a way to include different body background colors (for different pages) within the same css file. For example #fff for page1.html, #ffc for page2.html etc. If every page has to have a different background colour, you could put an ID on the body element, then in your css: ... If there's a few different backgrounds but they are used on a number of pages, use a class instead of id. This is a good habit, IMO, although technically the body tag is unique on the page and so many pages on the site can have a body tag with the same id -- IDs need only be unique per document. There are two reasons it's still useful (AFAICS) to make body IDs unique on the site, and classes non-unique: 1. You may be coding in XHTML, which may give you the ability in the future to do something entirely wacky like dump every page in your site into a single XML file. Then you'd want your XPath query to be able to home right in on a single body element. 2. Class attributes are a space-delimited list, allowing you to stack up the categories the body belongs to. I use this technique to define a range of layout types, which may be content- or section-specific, like so: body id=pageBioPubIntphoto class=sectionBio sectionPub layoutText The page___ and section___ identifiers are derived directly from the path, and the layoutText class in this case sets black text on white background (the layoutPic is mostly pictures, with a black background and subordinated grayish text). With this technique, you can do more than change the background per page, section, or layout type. You can also, for example, set specific dynamic submenus to appear or hide, or layouts with the same IDs can be radically shifted. -- Ben Curtis : webwright bivia : a personal web studio http://www.bivia.com v: (818) 507-6613 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] what tag will work here
Ouch That is some messy code. Could you show us some of your output? I've got little experience with asp.net, but I've noticed the asp:label outputs its own set of spans with inline styles. The problem may lie with your asp:label tag and not creating a series of nested spans, strongs, etc with classes. I'm sure there are more experienced .net people on this list with better advice. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kvnmcwebn Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:45 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] what tag will work here hello, Im trying to style some dynamicly loaded text within a table cell, shouldnt be a big deal right. By default the text keeps reverting back to times and i cant find out why. The font style's in the linked body and td rules just are'nt applying to it. The only tag thats working for me that allows a class to work with the text is an inline strong tag. Ive tried span and dd but no joy. here is an example TD class=featuredstrong class=head asp:label id=lblbusiness_name text='%# DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.business_name) %' runat=server Font-Bold=True /asp:labelbr/strongstrong class=listing asp:label id=lblAddress text='%# DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.business_address1) + + DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.business_address2) + + DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.Towns_Name) + + DataBinder.Eval(Container, DataItem.county) %' runat=server /asp:labelbr/strong and so on... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] nth child rule
Hi All I'm working on a re-design of my blog. The design is based on the Passion of Joan of Arc, a b/w silent film. I'm trying to give certain paragraphs the impression of scratched film being shown by adding an animated background image. It's still rough, but works ok. However, I have only gotten first:child and third:child to work. The others don't seem to be showing the background. To avoid having it look like the same lines were flashing, I wanted to use co-ordinates to move the background. It wasn't working so I am stuck using top right, top left, bottom right, ... Here's my question, are there special rules for using nth-child pseudo classes? Beyond first, second, third, ... what are the labels? Sixth, seventh, tenth? That is what I would assume. Here's the prototype: http://www.tdrake.net/joan/index-liquid.html I'm still dealing with some liquid layout issues, so be kind. I also know that IE will not pay attention to the nth-child. I'm not worried about it. Ted www.tdrake.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Learning The DOM
Hi Jeremy I would like some tutorials on taking older scripts that require body onload() commands and make them work without placing the event in the body tag. I'd also like a tutorial on removing the javascript from pages and target the classes assigned to those elements instead. For instance, during @media, you mentioned a href= class=external could be styled by the css and the javascript could insert the open a new window behavior. Thanks Ted - And now, I'd like to turn the question around and ask everyone on this list what they'd like to see from the DSTF. How much JavaScript do you know? What kind of things about DOM Scripting need clarifying? Do you want to see examples of cool stuff with a kind of DOM Scripting for dummies style explanation or more sober articles with a more geeky leaning? Please share your personal experiences: what's your skill level with JavaScript compared to say, CSS or XHTML? What's your opinion of JavaScript? The answers you give will really, really help determine the direction that the Task Force takes. Thanks, Jeremy -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] can link color inherit?
Here's a new one for me.
I'm building a transitional css file for our move from legacy code to new
css. The pages have an inline style that defines the color of a link in the
navigation table (stop your snickering!)
The new CSS has given a visited link color of blue-grey. When I view the
page, the link is grey because it has been visited. My goal is to fix as
much as possible with CSS before forcing people to make changes to the
thousands of html pages, so I can't plan on going back to the original
inline style and setting a visited color.
Luckily the navigation table (I hear you snickering in the back) has a
class, mainbg. So, I tried this rule:
Table.mainbg a:visited {color:#f60;} however, this gives all of the visited
links in the section orange instead of just the highlighted link.
So then I tried: tabl.mainbg a:visited {color:inherit;}
But I don't know if this is valid. It gave the active link the nice orange
and made the other visited links black. Which works visually, but doesn't
match the visited color associated with the rest of the page.
So, my question is: is color:inherit a valid rule? What would you suggest?
Sorry, I can't give you a live example, it's on an intranet.
Thanks
Ted
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RE: [WSG] web standards detection - is it possible?
Hey Russ This is the kind of thing we all need in our marketing tool belt. Do you have more specific info on this quote? Who said it? Who was the company? Do they have any stats available? I work for a company that is stuck with a small set of nn4 users and this would be helpful to know. Thanks Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hucklesby Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:53 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] web standards detection - is it possible? On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:13:40 +1000, russ - maxdesign wrote: ... I heard a presentation the other day where a major site went to standards and in the process dished up unstyled pages to NN4. They received heaps of feedback from people using NN4 thanking them for making the browsing experience easier and faster. I'm saving a copy of this. Thank you, Russ. I needed to know that. Cordially, David -- David Hucklesby, on 7/13/2005 http://www.hucklesby.com/ -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
