Re: [WSG] media queries: device-width vs max/min width
Tee, I agree with your thinking regarding a desktop user getting the 320px wide layout. It can seem silly. At the same time, responsive design isn't supposed to be something visible but something invisible. I doubt desktop users are ever resizing their browser windows and gasping in astonishment when the layout conforms. Table and fluid layouts have been doing this always and no one has ever cared then either as a user. Responsive developers are the only ones scaling the browser in and out and checking the results. Yeah, there are a bunch of items that are frustrating with responsive design - especially if your fighting to get an element to change from one layout to another with out weirdness. I've only made one responsive site so far and I had to really dumb it down to get used to the work method itself, the order I should be doing things, trying to gear for mobile first. I'm in the midst of a ton of experimentation. Here's the site so far if my own code can help you at all: http://jacque.sitesbyjoe.com I wouldn't user this building method on a client site unless they specifically wanted it at this point or until I figure out some more tricks to working this way. Would I offer it? Heck yes. I want to master the style and I'm sure you do too. Keep at it. *Joseph R. B. Taylor* /Web Designer/Developer/ -- Sites by Joe /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (508) 840-9657 Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 9/25/11 5:38 PM, tee wrote: I would love to hear what other think about the approach for device-width vs max/min width. For myself, I have done a couple sites targeting device-width and really think this is better approach. The hype about responsive design got me to try out the max/min width approach, I find that I need to tackle more the the window resizes (and this means writing more CSS rules means penalizing touchscreen device user), and the experience can be quite awful seeing it from desktop browser. I'm sort of in a defeated mood right now, really feel that except the ego to show off, I'm unable to find a convincing reason that desktop user needs to be given a responsive website anything smaller than 800px. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Breaking validation using noscript - Is there a solution?
Not sure what to recommend for the noscript tag - Frank's idea is pretty
good.
Just a thought, is the error really critical if it works? Using XHTML
Strict, you're gonna have a tough time making the validator happy.
Nice job on the Tesco site by the way. Real nice. I especially like the
two sections of links with changing images - that's just badass!
*Joseph R. B. Taylor*
/Web Designer/Developer/
--
Sites by Joe
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Phone: (508) 840-9657
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 7/14/11 8:05 AM, Foskett, Mike wrote:
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the response.
noscript is illegal when placed in the head under XHTML v1 strict.
Reports 3 errors:
1. noscript not allowed here.
2. document type doesn't allow link here.
3. end tag for object omitted - The killer failure as it refers to
the /head element.
I tried a full URI too but it made no difference.
While the same in the body reports one error, does not allow link here.
Server-side languages cannot detect JavaScript on / off on initial
page request.
Regards
Mike Foskett
http://webSemantics.co.uk/ http://websemantics.co.uk/
*From:*li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Support
*Sent:* 14 July 2011 12:08
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Breaking validation using noscript - Is there a
solution?
On 14/07/2011 11:36, Foskett, Mike wrote:
Hi all,
Just finished a major update for Tesco's homepage.
http://www.tesco.com/
Tesco's are the UKs largest retailer and this page gets approximately
1 million hits a day.
The page has been speed tweaked as much as possible given IT / server
restraints.
Unfortunately the page now fails W3C formal grammar validation.
Because the page as designed was a massive 1.4MB (previously 260 Kb -
330 Kb), JavaScript was used to fetch image upon demand rather than
on-load or post-load.
This greatly reduced the impact on the servers (critical) and improved
the initial page load speed.
Obviously a no JavaScript version was also required.
The image references cannot be in the standard CSS as IE loaded all
the images, used or not:
.noJS .imgRef {background:url(...)}
Will not work.
All the image references were placed into a separate CSS noJS.css and
the link in a noscript and this is where the validation breaks.
Apparently noscript is illegal in the head, and a noscript
containing a link is illegal in the body.
noscript
link rel=stylesheet href=/homepages/default/noJS.compressed.css
type=text/css media=all /
/noscript
I went for placing it in the body so the noscript is legal but the
link reference is not.
I can see no alternative, and wondered if any of the list members had
a more valid solution?
Regards,
Mike Foskett
http://webSemantics.co.uk/ http://websemantics.co.uk/
This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails.
The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco.
Tesco Stores Limited
Company Number: 519500
Registered in England
Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire
EN8 9SL
VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31
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Failing that, could you not implement php to check whether there JS is
enabled, if not, it can echo the StyleSheet.
--
Mike Flanagan
CCO Telford Computer Doctor
http://www.telfordpc.co.uk
i...@telfordpc.co.uk mailto:i...@telfordpc.co.uk
0800 058 8914
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Re: [WSG] mobile
I found the prev/next navigation in the portfolio confusing. I was expecting them to be side by side and at the bottom of the entry rather than bundled in the main nav. Sent via iPhone: Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (508) 840-9657 On Jun 9, 2011, at 5:11 PM, David Laakso da...@chelseacreekstudio.com wrote: Greetings from San Juan, Puerto Rico. re: http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ Constructive comments are always welcome. Specifically we are interested to know if the images within the portfolio section fill the window horizontally in both portrait and landscape view in handsets smaller than 320 by 480. This end: mobile-- Samsung Galaxy Prevail for BoostMobile with Android/2.2.2. desktop--Mac 0S X 10.4.11. Thanks for your assistance. Best, Milagros Sanchez, Creative Director, Chelsea Creek Studio *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] the image is not showing in IE7
Try losing the double quotes like:
win.document.write('body style=background-color:
#EBF2FA;h4Loading.../h4img src=ajax-loader.gif
style=border:1px solid;/body');
If you have a url we can look at it might help. Is IE throwing any errors?
*Joseph R. B. Taylor*
/Web Designer/Developer/
--
Sites by Joe
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Phone: (508) 840-9657
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 6/3/11 10:34 AM, Mahendran Venkatesan wrote:
Hi Folks!
I just tried to open a popup window. And, dynamically i embed an image
in the popup window. The image is not showing up in IE browsers. But
it's being seen in FireFox.
the code looks like below:
--
win=window.open('','','width=200,height=100');
win.document.write(body style=\background-color:
#EBF2FA;\h4Loading.../h4img src=\ajax-loader.gif\
style=\border:1px solid;\/body);
--
Any help on this would be much appreciated! :)
Thanks!
Venkatesan M
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Re: [WSG] Numbers groups like links - mobile
You can wrap the phone numbers in an anchor tag: a href=""1234567890/a The "tel:" is sorta like the "mailto:" in a link but for phones. Joseph R. B. Taylor Web Designer/Developer -- Sites by Joe, LLC "Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (855) WEB-DESN Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/27/11 3:48 PM, Leonardo Ferreira wrote: We're doing a mobile project for our e-commerce. Some issue I've a product code (676767 e.g.) and the markup understand that's a phone number. How can I fix this? Cheers. -- Nagem Leonardo Ferreira Webdesigner :: TI Tel.: +55 (81) 2121-2068 | Fax:+55 (81) 2121-2299 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org***
Re: [WSG] Numbers groups like links - mobile
Sorry, with webkit, this might do the trick: meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no" Joseph R. B. Taylor Web Designer/Developer -- Sites by Joe, LLC "Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (855) WEB-DESN Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/27/11 5:16 PM, Caleb Wong wrote: I think what he means is is there any way to avoid the product code being regarded as phone number rather than a product code. On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Joseph Taylor j...@sitesbyjoe.com wrote: You can wrap the phone numbers in an anchor tag: a href=""1234567890/a The "tel:" is sorta like the "mailto:" in a link but for phones. Joseph R. B. Taylor Web Designer/Developer -- Sites by Joe, LLC "Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (855) WEB-DESN Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/27/11 3:48 PM, Leonardo Ferreira wrote: We're doing a mobile project for our e-commerce. Some issue I've a product code (676767 e.g.) and the markup understand that's a phone number. How can I fix this? Cheers. -- Leonardo Ferreira Webdesigner :: TI Tel.: +55 (81) 2121-2068 | Fax:+55 (81) 2121-2299 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 v. HTML 4.x
I use HTML5 as my doctype, but I don't use the new tags. It's wise to be very concerned about backwards compatibility. Are they more semantic - I suppose. If IE doesn't understand the new tags I'd leave them be until another day. *Joseph R. B. Taylor* /Web Designer/Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (855) WEB-DESN Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/24/11 5:44 PM, grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au wrote: Hello, Could someone please clarify this for me. I realise that HTML5 has introduced new semantic elements such as header, aside etc., but does this really increase the expressive power of the markup? Can't the same thing be achieved in HTML 4.x using classes (e.g. p class=header)? I am reluctant to move to HTML5 due to the issue of backwards compatibility. I would be grateful for any replies. Regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Lightbox++ and mobiles etc
If you're using a lightbox you must have some javascript in there
somewhere so:
You can use javascript to detect your viewport size and only fire your
lightboxes if it's of a certain size.
*Joseph R. B. Taylor*
/Web Designer/Developer/
--
Sites by Joe
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: http://j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 1/18/11 8:21 AM, designer wrote:
- Original Message -
*From:* David Laakso mailto:da...@chelseacreekstudio.com
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2011 12:34 PM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Lightbox++ and mobiles etc
On 1/18/11 6:49 AM, designer wrote:
I making an html5 site with a few galleries, each one being a
grid of images 4 rows of three thumbnails. Clicking the
thumbnails provides a 600px wide image via lightbox++. The images
are all 600px wide, but the heights are different.
When it comes to making the galleries visible on a mobile phone I
do not have a problem since I've made the structure elastic and
the grid shrinks to 6 rows of 2 images. Fine. BUT : clearly,
the lightbox images simply do not fit on the small screen and I
wondered if anyone has solved the problem of how to stop the
lightbox working on small screens? Media queries?
All suggestions welcome.
Many thanks,
Bob
Try it the other way around: lay it out in mobile first?
@media only screen and (max-width:480px),only screen and
(max-device-width:480px) {...}
Best,
~d
--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/
Thanks David,
I've done that, no problem. But for 'normal folk on larger
screens' I want the lightbox to show the larger images. I don't
want two sites . . .
??
Bob
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Re: [WSG] mobile
Looks superb on my iPhone! Sent via iPhone: Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (609) 335-3076 On Dec 29, 2010, at 3:16 PM, David Laakso da...@chelseacreekstudio.com wrote: If anyone has time to check this site [portrait/landscape] in their mobile device it is greatly appreciated. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/ Best, ~d *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] disallow IE6 to load the main style sheet
IE6 would not load the stylesheet if set up the line of HTML like this: !--[if (gt IE 6)|!(IE)]!-- main stylesheet goes here !--![endif]-- Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 12/20/10 1:28 PM, Ty Hatch wrote: http://forabeautifulweb.com/blog/about/universal_internet_explorer_6_css/ On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 4:20 AM, tee weblis...@gmail.com mailto:weblis...@gmail.com wrote: I am finally to begin to stop supporting IE6 starts from 2011 as the usage has fallen below 5%. I don't want the IE6 users to see a broken page due to no special treatment made for the browser, rather, I would like them to see an un-styled page as if the style sheet has switch off. Can this be done? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] disallow IE6 to load the main style sheet
My 2 cents, Your approach towards IE6 should be dictated by your site's audience. Watch your stats. If you have a lot of IE6 visitors, don't they deserve a decent page? If they're potential customers, wouldn't you want them to go through and make a transaction? Think of the poor people using IE6. I've seen them come in the following flavors: 60% - Persons trapped in old Win2k network without the ability to install anything to their profile. 37% - Persons with an old computer with no knowledge of any alternative ~ /I surf the web by clicking the E!/ 3% - Hermits who refuse to upgrade as they still love their IE6's simple interface. I'm not kidding. I still have Windows 2000 servers running web apps I made 10 years. Many swear it was Microsoft's last good OS! At any rate, at least 2 out of the three groups above are potential customers. The stats for my own site show that 80% of my new customers are using IE, with a good 30% of that group still using IE6. Yeah, it kind of sucks, but web design is all about dealing with limitations, isn't it? Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 12/20/10 9:14 PM, Chad Kelly wrote: - Original Message - From: Erickson, Kevin (DOE) kevin.erick...@doe.virginia.gov To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 7:51 AM Subject: RE: [WSG] disallow IE6 to load the main style sheet Yes. Thank you Felix! best viewed works much better. And then throw in the fact that IE 6 was first release around 2001 and ask them if they even care if they can see a site in a best viewed fashion. I am thinking they are not. ;-) j/k. All's good. I know of some work places still useing Windows 2000. Or rather, I have read that they have rolled back to it, after some applications and the like wouldn't run on XP, which means that IE6 is about the only thing they can run on Windows2000, unless they use Firefox, or some other browser. As I don't think IE7 and 8 run on Win2K. I also know that a lot of workplaces are swiching to Vista though, so with all these different versions of Windows floating around the place, and with MS still not dropping official support for IE6 untill 2014 it is rather anoying. All that said, I don't test in IE6 anymore and have not done so for a year or so. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] images against color backgrounds
.png with alpha channel is the best way to go. IE6 and lower can't handle the alpha channel and make the transparent background gray. Based on my site audience I'll make fallback .gif replacements for the .png images (that look crappier but are at least transparent) You can also make 8 bit .pngs (with no alpha channel) that behave just like .gif Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 12/8/10 4:01 PM, cat soul wrote: I hope I'm not bending/breaking the purpose of the list but wanted opinions on best practices for preparing images for use on web pages where there are color backgrounds, and the image must have some of that background color in them. Example: you want to place an image with a drop shadow, so in photoshop, you prepare your image with drop shadow, both of them in layers above the same background color as on the page. When you place such an image, flattened and jpg'd, it looks seamless. Trouble comes when you want to change the background color on the page(s) where you've already prepped the images with a given color..then you have to change that, too, and re-jpg, re-place, etc.. Some images don't look right unless their lifted off the page with a drop shadow, IMHO... cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] images against color backgrounds
Good point on the javascript repairs (there are a couple techniques of fixing .png support in IE6) Trouble with this method is it can cause other troubles (like links over .png backgrounds etc) so be careful. It all depends on what you're trying to do. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 12/8/10 5:11 PM, Henrik Madsen wrote: .png with alpha channel is the best way to go. IE6 and lower can't handle the alpha channel and make the transparent background gray. Can be conditionally fixed with js, for example: http://www.dillerdesign.com/experiment/DD_belatedPNG/ Based on my site audience I'll make fallback .gif replacements for the .png images (that look crappier but are at least transparent) You can also make 8 bit .pngs (with no alpha channel) that behave just like .gif Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 12/8/10 4:01 PM, cat soul wrote: I hope I'm not bending/breaking the purpose of the list but wanted opinions on best practices for preparing images for use on web pages where there are color backgrounds, and the image must have some of that background color in them. Example: you want to place an image with a drop shadow, so in photoshop, you prepare your image with drop shadow, both of them in layers above the same background color as on the page. When you place such an image, flattened and jpg'd, it looks seamless. Trouble comes when you want to change the background color on the page(s) where you've already prepped the images with a given color..then you have to change that, too, and re-jpg, re-place, etc.. Some images don't look right unless their lifted off the page with a drop shadow, IMHO... cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Fixed-position menus?
Cat, You can always use javascript to move the menu as you scroll to overcome IE6 lacking. As far as how important is IE6? I guess that depends on your audience. The sites I work on have a (sadly) large percentage of IE6 users (10% +/-) Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 11/23/10 4:05 PM, cat soul wrote: Here is a link illustrating what I mean: http://thinkplan.org/menupersist.jpg What are peoples' thoughts on this kind of menu? I'm told that IE 6 doesn't support this kind of menu...IIRC, it involves position: fixed; How key is IE 6, and are people simply not going with this kind of fixed menu? thank you! cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 - Marking up forms
Eric, There are a ton of ways to do this. At the moment I stick with one of two formulas: fieldset legendMy Legend/legend div label for=My FieldMy Label/label input type=text name=My Field /div /fieldset Or if its a bunch of checkboxes or something: fieldset legendMy Legend/legend div label for=My Field input type=checkbox name=My Field Label for the checkbox /label label for=My Field input type=checkbox name=My Field Label for the checkbox /label label for=My Field input type=checkbox name=My Field Label for the checkbox /label /div /fieldset Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 11/10/10 12:30 PM, Eric Taylor wrote: Understandable; however, with the change in HTML5 from Definition Lists to Description lists, would it not be more semantically valuable to mark forms up usingdt anddd, for labels and inputs, providing the document with a more solid structure? As stated, my concern with this is the lack of grouping per item, when using Description Lists. I understand that paragraphs may be easier to handle when marking up forms and doing the CSS; however, is it a meaningful method of marking up forms that supports the forward progression of HTML5 and front-end development in general? This is the main reason I'm torn between Description lists and Unordered/Ordered lists. What makes most sense from a semantics view, and where is the balance between semantics and ease-of-use? Eric Taylor Elements Aside / http://www.elementsaside.com On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:41 AM, Patrick H. Laukere...@splintered.co.uk wrote: On 10/11/2010 17:08, Eric Taylor wrote: From my experience, the best practice, currently, is using Description lists; however, my concern with this method is the lack of semantic grouping when using this set of elements. Another method I have used is using an Unordered list to group each field inside of a list item. However, this doesn't seem like it makes as much sense, semantically, as the Description list. What do you all think, and how do you go about marking up your forms in HTML5? HTML5 does not add any new semantics or constructs to mark up the structure of forms, it only adds new types, a few features (autofocus for instance) and validation functionality. How you actually structure the lot is still as before (and there are still likely heated arguments over which way is good or not...personally, I just use paragraphs, as the extra structure of lists is just overkill in my opinion) P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re∑dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 - Marking up forms
IE8 and earlier Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 11/10/10 3:45 PM, Kevin Rapley wrote: I would be interested to gather your thoughts around this solution, using progress tags to mark progress through the form. form action=# method=post fieldset legend class=visuallyhiddenForm legend text/legend progress value=0.0 max=5.0 label for=text-example span class=label Label for text input /span span class=input input type=text name=text-example id=text-example class=text / /span /label /progress progress value=1.0 max=5.0 class=radio-group fieldset legend class=visuallyhiddenForm legend text/legend span class=label Label for radio group /span div class=radiobutton-container progress value=1.1 max=5.0 label for=radio-label-1 span class=input input type=radio name=radio-group-name id=radio-label-1 / /span span class=label Radio label /span /label /progress progress value=1.2 max=5.0 label for=radio-label-2 span class=input input type=radio name=radio-group-name id=radio-label-2 / /span span class=label Radio label /span /label /progress progress value=1.3 max=5.0 label for=radio-label-3 span class=input input type=radio name=radio-group-name id=radio-label-3 / /span span class=label Radio label /span /label /progress /div!-- / .radiobutton-container -- /fieldset /progress!-- / .radio-group -- progress value=2.0 max=5.0 class=checkbox-group fieldset legend class=visuallyhiddenForm legend text/legend span class=label Label for checkbox group /span div class=checkbox-container progress value=2.1 max=5.0 label for=checkbox-label-1 span class=input input type=checkbox name=checkbox-label-1 id=checkbox-label-1 / /span span class=label Checkbox label /span /label /progress progress value=2.2 max=5.0 label for=checkbox-label-2 span class=input input type=checkbox name=checkbox-label-2 id=checkbox-label-2 / /span span class=label Checkbox label /span /label /progress progress value=2.3 max=5.0 label for=checkbox-label-3 span class=input input type=checkbox name=checkbox-label-3 id=checkbox-label-3 / /span span class=label Checkbox label /span /label /progress /div!-- / .checkbox-container -- /fieldset /progress!-- / .checkbox-group -- progress value=3.0 max=5.0 label for=select-box-label span class=label Option label text /span span class=input select name=select-box-label id=select-box-label option selected=selected data-skip=1Option text/option optionOption text/option optionOption text/option optionOption text/option optionOption text/option /select /span /label /progress progress value=4.0 max=5.0 label for=select-box-label span class=label Option label text /span span class=input select name=fancySelect class=combibox option value=0 selected=selected data-skip=1Choose Your Product/option option value=1 data-icon=/graphics/structure/forms/products/iphone.png data-html-text=iPhone 4lt;igt;in stocklt;/igt;iPhone 4/option option value=2 data-icon=/graphics/structure/forms/products/ipod.png data-html-text=iPod lt;igt;in stocklt;/igt;iPod/option option value=3 data-icon=/graphics/structure/forms/products/air.png data-html-text=MacBook Airlt;igt;out of stocklt;/igt;MacBook Air/option option value=4 data-icon=/graphics/structure/forms/products/imac.png data-html-text=iMac Stationlt;igt;in stocklt;/igt;iMac Station/option /select /span /label /progress progress value=5.0 max=5.0 label for=textarea-example span class=label Label for textarea /span span class=input textarea name=textarea-example id=textarea-example class=text rows=10 cols=51/textarea /span /label /progress input type=submit value=Submit form class=button / /fieldset /form Kevin Rapley Yoo-zuh-buhl | User Experience Consultant 0115 714 2337 | 0772 345 7862 yoo-zuh-buhl.co.uk http://yoo-zuh-buhl.co.uk Yoo-zuh-buhl, The Terrace, Cultural Quarter, Grantham Road, Lincoln, LN2 1BD On 10/11/2010 19:37, Chris Price wrote: On 10 November 2010 18:52, Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.com mailto:thierry.koble...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think lists should be used for this (there might be a case for a OL in case of dependant selects, but that would be a stretch). In the case of DL, I'd say that the relationship between DTs and DDs is no better than the one created by the labels and their for attribute. fwiw, I use divs to wrap controls with their label, not because it makes things easier to style, but because of the way the form would look with no such wrapper and no styling. I'm with you there Thierry Fieldset is, by definition, a grouping within a form. The legend describes the fieldset. The label for and input id link to each other. There is no subset of fieldset like dt is to dl or li is to ul so the only logical element would be a div which is neutral. I can only imagine I would have
Re: [WSG] Where are we with Frames?
I'm sure this group would agree they are pretty much a no-no. Sent via iPhone: Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (609) 335-3076 On Oct 25, 2010, at 8:25 PM, cat soul cats...@thinkplan.org wrote: How do people here feel about frames? cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images?
Good questions. I have yet to see definitive answers for most of these questions. I've been thinking on this constantly as I try to alter my work flow to a format that will please all the devices. Some things haven't changed: Start with clean HTML that'll work on ANYTHING including JAWS etc. Build upwards with your CSS from IE6 to modern browsers (or downwards from modern browsers to IE6) Use javascript to add behaviors to your HTML/CSS in a progressive fashion. The touch devices add a new dimension to the workflow. They may change the way you approach some items on a page (like a multi select widget) and you now have to pay more attention to the :active attribute in your CSS as that'll react to a touch vs. :hover - no biggie, right? For the most part, the touch devices all use modern browsers which is pretty cool. I made an iphone version of my site using media queries, which was a lot of fun to do. The touch devices open a new horizon - no IE!!! Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 10/20/10 10:44 AM, cat soul wrote: Yes, and while we're on the topic of things that won't work on phones and iPadsis there anything else we need to know about that also won't play nice with those two handheld platforms? Is a different design perspective in order now? Do we now design for the iPad and for phones, and have desktop and notebook users simply have that as what they see? or are we back to sniffer scripts and multiple versions of our pages? cs On Oct 20, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Kevin Ireson wrote: An excellent and very up to date point about accessibility. *From:* tee mailto:weblis...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:57 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images? Caution with the use of hover for such purpose if you also want touchscreen device user able to use it. In regards of touchscreen, this article explains it better than I can do. http://trentwalton.com/2010/07/05/non-hover/ tee On Oct 19, 2010, at 1:46 PM, Joseph Taylor wrote: You could certainly do that with CSS. You'll want to add javascript to control how the image shows and fades, positioning etc. For maximum accessibility, have the thumbnail link to the main image, then have your Javscript/CSS hijack the link and show the image. Everyone wins. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 10/19/10 4:13 PM, cat soul wrote: Any thoughts on using CSS hover properties to show larger images? The scenario I'm envisioning is one where you'd have small thumbnails of samples, and hovering the mouse over them would invoke a hover state in which a larger version of that same image would appear...Larger meaning 400x600 pixels, or in that neighborhood. Is this not wise from a coding perspective? How about usability? Do web page visitors not expect this kind of behavior..would it be confusing to them as to what they're supposed to do, or what to expect? I'm wanting to use CSS to do what javascript rollovers do, only without the javascript. thanks for any feedback or opinions. cs This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images?
Things are definitely better now than they once were in the world of browsers. Sure, we have a number of IE's of varying inability to deal with plus a bunch of others. Sure, we're constantly in a state of it doesn't work on everything yet. Sure, not one tool we use can be relied on 100% of the time. But We finally have an environment where standards can flourish. Browser competition exists again. So much so that Microsft had no choice but to join in. This is good. We have new toys like CSS3 that create enough excitement that browsers are scrambling to handle them. While I've been continuously disappointed for the last decade on standards adoption etc, I remain optimistic that the future is bright. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 10/20/10 12:11 PM, cat soul wrote: Well, you certainly busted wide open a huge can of worms, Joseph, and I salute you for it. the one comfy thing in that, to me, is the no IE part. Starting with clean HTML is easy enough, but everything else is squarely in the don't count on it category..revealing the lick and a promise nature of CSS and Jscript...not that they are not worthy tools; they simply can't be counted upon to be properly supported... but neither can HTML, which, IIRC, is the reason for CSS. Yanno, folks...I am smelling the need for some kind of revolution here...That standards do not work reliably doesn't help anyone..not client, not end-user, not author/designer/developer. Please don't groan, but my background is in Print. Luckily, I never had to write PostScript. Illustrator, PS, Quark, and later InDesign all do a fine job of it. but just imagine if I DID have to write the post script, and to know variations for every single printing device?!?! IMHO, we need some kind of lingua franca that works for all of these electronic gizmos once and for all... but...things have been set in motion, and perhaps it's going to remain a bucket of stinky fish guts into the foreseeable future. cs On Oct 20, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Joseph Taylor wrote: Good questions. I have yet to see definitive answers for most of these questions. I've been thinking on this constantly as I try to alter my work flow to a format that will please all the devices. Some things haven't changed: Start with clean HTML that'll work on ANYTHING including JAWS etc. Build upwards with your CSS from IE6 to modern browsers (or downwards from modern browsers to IE6) Use javascript to add behaviors to your HTML/CSS in a progressive fashion. The touch devices add a new dimension to the workflow. They may change the way you approach some items on a page (like a multi select widget) and you now have to pay more attention to the :active attribute in your CSS as that'll react to a touch vs. :hover - no biggie, right? For the most part, the touch devices all use modern browsers which is pretty cool. I made an iphone version of my site using media queries, which was a lot of fun to do. The touch devices open a new horizon - no IE!!! Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 10/20/10 10:44 AM, cat soul wrote: Yes, and while we're on the topic of things that won't work on phones and iPadsis there anything else we need to know about that also won't play nice with those two handheld platforms? Is a different design perspective in order now? Do we now design for the iPad and for phones, and have desktop and notebook users simply have that as what they see? or are we back to sniffer scripts and multiple versions of our pages? cs On Oct 20, 2010, at 12:44 AM, Kevin Ireson wrote: An excellent and very up to date point about accessibility. *From:* tee mailto:weblis...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, October 20, 2010 1:57 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images? Caution with the use of hover for such purpose if you also want touchscreen device user able to use it. In regards of touchscreen, this article explains it better than I can do. http://trentwalton.com/2010/07/05/non-hover/ tee On Oct 19, 2010, at 1:46 PM, Joseph Taylor wrote: You could certainly do that with CSS. You'll want to add javascript to control how the image shows and fades, positioning etc. For maximum accessibility, have the thumbnail link to the main image, then have your Javscript/CSS hijack the link and show the image. Everyone wins. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http
Re: [WSG] CSS, :hover and touch screen devices (Was: CSS rollovers for images?)
Cat, That's the holy trinity of web design: content, presentation and behavior. ;) Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 10/20/10 1:19 PM, cat soul wrote: I thank you for that link, David. The picture I am developing now is this: HTML and CSS should be used strictly for content, structure and formatting. *Behaviors* are best left to things like Javascript. Are these two statements ones that most here can buy into? Are they fair statements, accurate reflections of practice and real-world usage? IOW, there are things we *can* do, and out of that, there are things we ought do, or ought not do, based on the demonstrable. cs On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:46 AM, David Dorward wrote: On 20 Oct 2010, at 16:59, cat soul wrote: will there be/can there be a new command/property which can be read by each device the way it needs to be? could there be soon a touch command so that you could write the code like: hover, do this. If no hover, then touch, do this. If no touch, then __ and do this We shouldn't need it. We have :hover which can be thought of When the user is potentially about to activate something and we have :active which is When the user is activating something. That should be enough until you start trying to use :hover for doing things beyond indicating the possibility of activation, and one you start doing that … http://www.cennydd.co.uk/2010/end-hover-abuse-now/ -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS rollovers for images?
You could certainly do that with CSS. You'll want to add javascript to control how the image shows and fades, positioning etc. For maximum accessibility, have the thumbnail link to the main image, then have your Javscript/CSS hijack the link and show the image. Everyone wins. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 10/19/10 4:13 PM, cat soul wrote: Any thoughts on using CSS hover properties to show larger images? The scenario I'm envisioning is one where you'd have small thumbnails of samples, and hovering the mouse over them would invoke a hover state in which a larger version of that same image would appear...Larger meaning 400x600 pixels, or in that neighborhood. Is this not wise from a coding perspective? How about usability? Do web page visitors not expect this kind of behavior..would it be confusing to them as to what they're supposed to do, or what to expect? I'm wanting to use CSS to do what javascript rollovers do, only without the javascript. thanks for any feedback or opinions. cs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Long documents
I personally haven't encountered any standards describing such, but it's very common to see long articles break into multiple pages. Also creates more ad places if that's your thing. Others in the group might think differently of course. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 10/16/10 6:19 PM, grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au wrote: Hello, Is there any standard (official or otherwise) that limits the length of single web pages? I edit an online journal which contains articles of up to 7000 words. Currently each article resides on a single web page which the viewer must scroll to read. Some of the articles are 10-20 'screens' in length. If anyone could clarify whether there is a standard and, if so, how such documents should be presented, I would be grateful. If you want to look at the journal I'm talking about see www.baileyandireland.com. Thank you, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HELP WITH SETTING UP A CMS PROJECT
Mark, Marvin has been a member of this group for a long time and he's to be commended for his never-ceasing efforts to develop websites without the gift of sight. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 9/15/10 12:30 PM, Mark Host wrote: Does nobody see that this email is spam? The email makes no sense. Why would someone write a formal document for a star trek site *they *are /writing /themselves? Here's your first tip starvin Marvin. TURN CAPS LOCK OFF. -- Mark Host On 9/15/2010 7:42 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: HI. THINKING ABOUT REWRITING MY STAR TREK SITE AND THINKING ABOUT USING A CMS. LIKE JOOMLA, WORD PRESS, AND DROOPLE 7 WHEN IT COMES OUT. SO DOWNLOADED WAMP SERVER 2, AND GOT JOOMLA. BUT HAVING A BIT OF TROUBLE SETTING IT UP WITH JAWS. ANY ONE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH A CMS SYSTEM. AND WHAT DO I NEED TO SET IT UP. WILL BE WRITING A FORMAL REQUIREMENTS DOCUMENT OF THE PROJECT, AND THE TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS AND OUTLINING WHAT I WANT FOR THE PROJECT. THEN WHICH TOOL TO USE FOR THIS PROJECT. SO NO NEED TO BANG MY HEAD FOR CODING, USING SQL, AND GOT STUCK WITH THE CURRENT PROJECT. GOT WRITERS BLOCK, OR CODERS BLOCK. SO WAS THINKING OF MAYBE GOING WITH THIS APPORACH. IF ANY ONE HAS DONE THIS BEFORE. SO DO I JUST THEN TAKE MY TEXT, LINKS, AND MAYBE SET OUT WHAT NAVIGATION I WILL USE. ETC. ANY HELP WOULD BE GRATEFULLY APPRECIATED. MARVIN. PS: A LBIND COMPUTER USER, USING THE JAWS FOR WINDOWS SCREEN READER FROM HTTP://WWW.FREEDOMSCIENTIFIC.COM http://WWW.FREEDOMSCIENTIFIC.COM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes or No? HTML5 FOR WEB DESIGNERS
I've read DOM Scripting by Jeremy Keith and it was a fine book for what it was. Haven't read this one though. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 8/17/10 10:49 AM, jeffrey morin wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on whether the book, HTML5 FOR WEB DESIGNERS by Jeremy Keith is worth the purchase? I want to learn more about HTML5 but am turned off by the shameless promotion they've done for this book. Does anyone have any suggestions on other books or if this is worth it? Thanks, Jeff *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] help
Oh no! Marvin! Best of Luck!!! Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 4/3/10 2:32 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. well lost all my project a couple of months ago. dodgy system restore. corrupted hard disk. so with my toshiba satellite a300 you can set it back to default factory settings. thus wiping the drive. so lost all my projects, data, e-mails, links, contacts, etc. and my music. but been able to get most of the music back from a friend. now got a external 1 tb external drive. tried a few recovery programs. but either not accessible. did find one called recover my files, but to recover, you had to pay for the version. problem, i do not have a credit card or pay pal account. so, any one used recovery software that works with a screen reader, and is free. marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Ie7 test?
Can anyone guess why the columns overlap? http://freemealcenter.com Thanks! Sent via iPhone: Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (609) 335-3076 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] the mysteries of overflow: hidden
If I understand correctly, you're suggesting that that overflow:hidden doesn't hide overflow? My own use of overflow:hidden has only been in conjunction with a stated height. In this case overflow:hidden hides anything that goes beyond the stated height of the element the rule has been attached to. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 2/10/10 1:50 PM, Jody Tate wrote: (I'm a list lurker. Also, apologies if this has been covered before.) In CSS, setting a div to overflow: hidden solves a problem it shouldn't--at least from the name of the property and value, it seems like it shouldn't. Often I'll have text, e.g. an h1, overflowing its containing/parent div, but setting the containing/parent div to overflow: hidden causes the parent div to set its height in a way that the formerly overflowing text no longer overflows. I've seen this happen for years. Another developer showed me this fix years ago. But over the years, I've never read an explanation why overflow: hidden fixes a problem its name implies it wouldn't. Have others seen this? Any explanations? -jody *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] fonts
Marvin, You don't need to have Arial on your PC to use it in your work. Others should have to have it, or any fallback you declare in your stylesheet. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 2/1/10 11:28 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. i have verdana. and it reads the name. but only have got Arial Blakc. not just plain Arial what is the correct name for Arial Black. or where can i download the Arial font. marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] fonts
Yes Marvin, That combination is fine. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 2/1/10 4:01 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. so the font for my style sheet. is it coded correctly. just that have b een off line for the past few days. had a faulty power pack for my toshiba and had to order one and got it today in australia. a toshiba power pack. now, so do i put say verdana for my body and arial for headings, links, etc. marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] :: makeready ::
David, I missed the items other mentioned, but it looks fine right now. The only item I wonder about is the thick border below the navigation that touches the double border directly below it. I'd use one or the other rather than both. That's me though. It looks like a CSS oops to me. No normal people will mind it though. If the client's happy leave it be. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/26/10 8:26 AM, David Laakso wrote: Lesley Lutomski wrote: Hi David, I also have a problem with the double border on the menu items, combined with the underlining of the links - too many lines too close together. I have neurological problems, which may partly account for my reaction here, but I asked my husband and he also finds it a bit busy and distracting. Could I suggest removing the underline and spacing the menu items slightly further apart, or using a single rather than double border? (I do actually like the double border.) Also, changing the blue to an orange or red that would be less jarring against the brown would be a big improvement. Lesley markup http://chelseacreekstudio.com/mhr/ Still a neurological problem for you now, Lesley? ~d *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] my site
Marvin, I see you fixed the paragraph before the body tag. I'm re-validating your page and will send back some more tips. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/21/10 7:04 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. here's the url to my site i cam currently working on. okay go and read the code. and point out to me what errors i have and how to fix. any advice would be fine. well will work on the index page. and if i can improve it any better as a blind person. let me know. willing to take any advice, or pointers. marvin. http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] my site
Marvin,
As I send over items I notice - for now forget about HTML 4.01 or HTML 5
and stay with XHTML for the moment.
Things to fix then get back to me:
Inside the div tag with the id of banner_new you have double break
tags surrounding both the first level heading and the image. I see the
same thing in the navigation area.
I'd rather see you use CSS to create those spaces.
For the heading element you could use this CSS:
div#banner_new h1 { margin: 20px 0; }
For the navigation:
div#navigation { margin: 20px 0; }
This would put a 20 pixel space at the top and bottom of the elements.
If you choose to leave the break tags in place (it's your call), you
need to add the forward slash prior to closing the tag so they validate.
Try those changes and get back to me.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Web Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 1/21/10 7:04 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:
hi.
here's the url to my site i cam currently working on.
okay go and read the code.
and point out to me what errors i have and how to fix.
any advice would be fine.
well will work on the index page.
and if i can improve it any better as a blind person.
let me know.
willing to take any advice, or pointers.
marvin.
http://www.raulferrer.com/joe/html/
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Re: [WSG] vallidation problems
Code example or URL? Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/20/10 10:14 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. so how do i fix all my vallidation problems and my css. at a loss. what do i do. maybe try to copy the navigation stuff. do not want to take out thebr / was vallidating in the copyright page. how to fix. please help me with this one. page. and the link which i will paste. having similar issues with the other pages. also maybe can help with the css. need a white background colour. please help. getting frustrated. my code looks real good. but not sure it is not vallidating. could i try any other validators. that might vallidate my code. marvin. http://validator.w3.org/check#result http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] vallidation problems
Marvin, You can email me with a link and I'll help you best I can. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/20/10 10:27 PM, Russ Weakley wrote: Marvin, In this case I would suggest direct mentoring by a WSG member. Someone who can take your pages, validate then and show you each isse and how it was fixed. It is often very hard to address all of these issues on the list itself, and pushing too many questions out at a time tends to freak other members out. Is anyone on the WSG list interested is stepping in here to do some direct help - i.e. become a short term mentor? Thanks Russ On 21/01/2010, at 2:14 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: hi. so how do i fix all my vallidation problems and my css. at a loss. what do i do. maybe try to copy the navigation stuff. do not want to take out the br / was vallidating in the copyright page. how to fix. please help me with this one. page. and the link which i will paste. having similar issues with the other pages. also maybe can help with the css. need a white background colour. please help. getting frustrated. my code looks real good. but not sure it is not vallidating. could i try any other validators. that might vallidate my code. marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] google chrome frame
Tee, IE6 is out there. Heck, IE5 is still out there (I made the decision to ignore IE5 already). How you deal with IE6 (or not) is up to you. Personally, I still have to check IE6 and at least make sure my layouts are working properly. I try to do little things like limiting my use of .png files to a minimum so things don't look too ugly. IE6 is around, but it's old enough that I only go so far to make their experience match that of a modern browser. I'd love to ignore IE6 too, but real people without a choice are using it in the workplace everyday. A couple of my clients have an office full of Windows 2000 workstations. The Chrome frame you mention can't be expected to be widely adopted on systems where the users can't even install anything period. They probably use Chrome at home though. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Web Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 1/3/10 4:32 AM, tee wrote: This new kid has been showing up in a number of sites' stats that I built. Wonder if this may spread the use of HTML 5, also curious what benefit will it be for us web developers to push IE6 down to 18th level of hell. For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6 renders like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and that a site has it implemented? It seems to be. Quote: Users running Internet Explorer with Google Chrome Frame installed will automatically have their pages rendered by Google Chrome Frame However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or not. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] skip links
Mark,
I just add something like this to things that are for mobile/text-only:
style type=text/css media=screen.noscreen { text-index: -3000px;
}/style
a class=noscreen href=#placeSkip Link/a
It's not perfect (keyboard users with a full blown browser will have to
tab through them but won't see the links) but combining that concept
with a little user agent sniffing on the server side of things improve
your odds of satisfying the needs of everyone.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 10/28/09 8:19 PM, Mark Huppert wrote:
Thanks for that Steve - but I was trying answer the question:
Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav'
procedure which is invisible to sighted readers
regards
Mark
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Green
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 11:01 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
A 1-pixel image works for screen reader users but it is no use for
sighted people who use keyboard navigation.
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Huppert
*Sent:* 28 October 2009 23:37
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
spot the typo
regards
Mark
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Huppert
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 10:34 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
Steve
One way to do it is make a transparent gif of 1px x 1px. Then
embed that in your link with no text. Have an ALT or a TITLE with
'skip navigation'
a href=#top img title=Skip navigation alt=Skip navigation
src=/screens/dot/gif //a
regards
Mark
Mark Huppert
Library Systems and Web Coordinator
Division of Information
R.G. Menzies Building (#2)
The Australian National University
ACTON ACT 0200
T: +61 02 6125 2752
F: +61 02 6125 4063
W: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/about/
CRICOS Provider #00120C
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Green
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 October 2009 12:52 AM
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* RE: [WSG] skip links
I always point people to http://blackwidows.co.uk/. The links are
accessible to screen readers and are displayed when they have focus so
they are accessible to sighted users who use keyboard navigation.
*From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *designer
*Sent:* 28 October 2009 13:37
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Subject:* [WSG] skip links
Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav'
procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by
screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read
about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is
recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a
bullet-proof approach.
I'd be really grateful . . .
Thanks,
Bob
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Re: [WSG] How to: mulitiple input fields with one label
Tee, It looks like you should (warning - people will argue about this) markup up a table, with the column headings as the labels at the top. Be sure to specify the scope=col attribute. Then in each cell markup your inputs as normal, add your labels and hide with css. Not very elegant, but honestly it seems to be the most logical approach for EVERYONE to be able to understand everything in the form. I don't see a reasonable way for the initial labels to apply to a series of inputs like that otherwise. That is, if this layout is necessary. Hopefully that helps! Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 7/11/09 11:44 PM, tee wrote: I need to make a form that looks similar to this one which allows user to enter up to X number of product info http://www.hardware.com/services/asset-recovery/ Prefer not to use absolution position + negative text-indent to pull the label texts off the screen starts from line 2 however I can't think of a better way to have the line 1's labels associate to line 2 - line 10 input fields and drop-down lists' IDs. Is this doable ? tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] working with line-height
Ben,
On the spacing, the spaces you're fighting with are a combination of
line-height, margin and padding.
Each browser will implement their own defaults, so resetting the
defaults with a reset stylesheet has become a popular technique.
For example, if you apply a line like this to your page:
* {
margin: 0 !important;
padding: 0 !important;
}
You should see everything collapse.
Follow that with a:
line-height: XXpx;
and you should see the results you're looking for.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 7/1/09 11:57 AM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Ben Lau wrote:
I frequently have to work with pixel-perfect design,
There is no such thing.
and I'm always having trouble with line-height in particular. Please
take a look at this example:
http://www.hellobenlau.net/wsg/index.html
Where you state, This text size is 11px. it is not; it is 18px
in my browser.
I'm wondering if there was a way to top align the text to its
line-height.
So say, with text size 20px, could the top of the 'T' be aligned to
the top
of the pink box?
Align it to the top of its container.
How does the 'gap' above and below the text gets calculated?
What do the W3C specs say? If they don't say, then browsers can
use whatever formula they like.
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Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
In the big picture, many things will use your website that won't use javascript. Like a search engine spider. Or a crappy cell phone. At the very least make sure your basic site functions don't rely on javascript to work. Same thing with images. The arguments/links below from Ted are valuble if you want to look deeper. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 7/1/09 12:39 PM, Ted Drake wrote: At Yahoo! we build our sites to work without JS and then add progressive enhancement. I don't have the stats in front of me, but we find a much larger number of users without JS. Take a look at this page: http://finance.yahoo.com/news With JS enabled and disabled you'll see all of the customization functionality works. The personalization features were built by Dirk Ginader who also made this presentation on why and how you should build sites for everyone. http://www.slideshare.net/ginader/the-5-layers-of-web-accessibility Ted DRAKE -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Chris Dimmock Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible websites (was: accessible free web hosting account) I'll just address one you raised Jens. Google does not currently parse external Javascript files. So unless Fairfax uses simple inline Javascript, and exposes spiderable URLS, that's probably good enough for most of us to use progressive enhancement methodology . Ask Lucas. When he gets back from SG Chris http://www.cogentis.com.au Is there any other strong arguments for making pages available, without javascript enabled? I'd like to know too. On the Sydney Morning Herald in June less than 0.5% of users had JS disabled. Maybe we should drop that support? Anyone willing to share their numbers/reasons? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] working with line-height
David,
What form elements / what browsers do you mean? I'm curious as I
haven't seen anyone make comments against reset stylesheets as of yet.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 7/1/09 7:49 PM, David Hucklesby wrote:
Joseph Taylor wrote re: http://www.hellobenlau.net/wsg/index.html
Ben,
On the spacing, the spaces you're fighting with are a combination of
line-height, margin and padding.
Each browser will implement their own defaults, so resetting the
defaults with a reset stylesheet has become a popular technique.
For example, if you apply a line like this to your page:
* { margin: 0 !important; padding: 0 !important; }
You should see everything collapse.
Follow that with a:
line-height: XXpx;
and you should see the results you're looking for.
Begging your pardon, but I think this solution may lead to new problems.
Using that margin and padding reset is likely to stop some form
elements working in older browsers. Better to define the margins and
padding you want on the elements that need them, in my opinion.
Specifying the line-height in pixels works differently from browser to
browser, some browsers increasing the line-height along with text size,
while others retain the same pixel height when text is enlarged.
I hesitate to post this, as I wish I had something more constructive to
contribute. Sadly, I don't know how to achieve what Ben asks.
Cordially,
David
--
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Re: [WSG] working with line-height
To clarify what I do in the real world:
I use a reset stylesheet then reapply my own defaults so my own form
elements appear fine.
You're correct about the !important declaration - that shouldn't be
there for the resets. My mistake.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 7/1/09 10:31 PM, Mark Henderson wrote:
Joseph Taylor wrote:
David,
What form elements / what browsers do you mean? I'm curious as I
haven't seen
anyone make comments against reset stylesheets as of yet.
To reiterate David's point, I sent the below earlier (but due to server
updates many months ago my *true* email was changed, so it never made
it).
**
Ben,
On the spacing, the spaces you're fighting with are a combination of
line-height, margin and padding.
Each browser will implement their own defaults, so resetting the
defaults with a reset stylesheet has become a popular technique.
Agreed, and there are various implementations out there that do the job,
such as:
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/
although I personally find that to be slight overkill.
For example, if you apply a line like this to your page:
* {
margin: 0 !important;
padding: 0 !important;
}
You should see everything collapse.
Follow that with a:
line-height: XXpx;
and you should see the results you're looking for.
That's a very big negative, given the use of !important on the global
reset (* {}) such an approach cannot be recommended. Actually, unless
I'm mistaken (and it is possible), the global reset has some issues with
forms and various other elements that once set cannot be undone, and has
since fallen by the way. There are other methods of achieving similar
results however (see Eric Meyer's reset link above). At the very least,
if the global reset is your preferred choice, do *not* use !important
with it or all your margins and paddings are going to disappear on all
elements, and you are in for a world of hurt. Maybe you're a masochist
and that isn't such a bad thing :-P.
HTH
Mark
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Re: [WSG] Right div dropping below left floated div when browser resized
IE6 will drop your content down to a place where it'll fit.
You need to do something like this:
my_container {
min-width: XXpx;
_width: XXpx; /* just for IE6 */
}
IE6 needs specified width and then it'll behave like it was given a
min-width.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com
On 6/30/09 4:42 PM, Stevio wrote:
I have two divs as follows (no link sorry, web page is protected) - a
left div for navigation, a right div containing a header and table
(with tabular data).
The problem is that when the browser window is reduced in size, to the
point that the table can no longer shrink to fit inside the available
space, the table (but not the whole right div) drops down so that the
top of the table is in line with the bottom of the left navigation
div. This problem occurs in IE6 but not IE7 or Firefox.
Any ideas how I can fix this so the table just stays in place like it
should when the horizontal scrollbar appears?
Code is below. Thanks.
div id=navigation
--content--
/div
div id=mainbody
h2My List/h2
div
table class=TableList
--table content--
/table
/div
CSS is:
#navigation {
float: left;
width: 180px;
margin-top: 20px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
margin-left: 9px;
margin-right: 9px;
padding-left: 1px;
padding-right: 1px;
background: #FF;
border-top: 2px solid #336699;
border-bottom: 2px solid #336699;
}
#mainbody {
margin-left: 210px;
margin-top: 20px;
margin-bottom: 20px;
margin-right: 20px;
border: 0px solid black;
}
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Re: [WSG] The weirdest IE bug I've ever encountered.
I took a look at your source code - there are a whole bunch of issues beginning with oddities in your HTML - things like: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN http://www.w3c.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd; HTML lang=en xml:lang=en xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; Your saying the DocType is HTML 4.01 Transitional, but then you're linking to the XHTML namespace - that's probably confusing IE right from the get go. Using Transitional DocTypes also pisses IE off. ul Weird spacees in your tags? That's begging for IE weirdness. Try starting with perfect HTML that's of the Strict DocType whether it's HTML or XHTML. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com On 6/3/09 9:14 PM, Breton Slivka wrote: I have a stripped down example of it here. The bug only occurs in IE 7, and possibly ie6, and it occurs in IE8 running in compatibility mode. I cannot be sure whether it happens in IE8 in IE8 mode or not. (MS have made the compatibility mode interface so bloody complex I can't figure out whether I'm in it or not at any given time). The example is here: http://zenpsycho.com/iebug.htm On that page, you will see an italic letter v on the left hand side of the screen, and a view cart link on the right hand side which is NOT clickable, but which should be clickable. The ingredients of this bug appear to be: * a left floated element followed by * an italic styled element nested directly inside a p tag, which are both preceded by * a menu with links that are floated to the right Combine these things together, and the right hand side of the screen becomes unclickable. (you can have a huge column of links on the right hand side, and they're all useless). What really bothers me about this one, is that the spell is mysteriously broken (the bug goes away) if you change this: Pspanv/span/P to this: Pspanv/spannbsp;/P Just what on earth is going on here? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] using skip links
If the skip link is serving a valid purpose I see no problem using it. Keep in mind the purpose of the skip link - does the promotion contain items that would slow keyboard navigation? if not you probably do not need it. Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design http://sitesbyjoe.com Phone: (609) 335-3076 On May 13, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Jon Gunderson jong...@gmail.com wrote: One idea is the first skip should be skip to title and the second link skip to content. a second ideas is for your second link to be skip over promotion It is not clear to me why there would need to be promotional material between the heading and the content. COuld you send a link of an example? Jon On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Ben Lau bensan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I am to build templates for a page, and below is a pseudo example of my code order: -skip to #content- [div#navigation] a name=content/a [h1] [div#promotion] [div.content] I've always believed my h1 should always come after the 'content' anchor (or within a #content div), so when screen reader skips my navigation to the content, they're able to read the h1 as well. Ideally I'd like to connect the h1 and div.content together, however I'm stuck with the div#promotion in between as I need to adhere to the visual layout. I was thinking of inserting another skip link to .content (and add another anchor name before it), so it'll read as: -skip to #pageContent- [div#navigation] a name=pageContent/a [h1] -skip promotion to #content- [div#promotion] a name=content/a [div.content] My question is, is it bad to have a skip link right after you've skipped from the top? (hope I've explained it well...) Thanks, Ben *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Was given a shocker this week ...
Sadly, many sites get built this way. Sent from the iphone of: Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 On Apr 6, 2009, at 1:21 PM, Rick Faircloth r...@whitestonemedia.com wrote: Sounds like a nightmare, Mike. I wonder if the former web designer has any real claim to copyright on the site’s original graphics, or did the client pay to be owner of the site’s graphics in their original agreement? Rick From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Mike Kear Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:42 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Was given a shocker this week ... You might be amused to learn about the site I was given to rebuild this week.It was built by a photographer who had a mac and some free software, and the client said the problem was she had to get someone to update it for her every time she changed anything in her business. She wanted a content management system. That’s no problem for me – that’s mostly what I do . But I was appalled when I saw the site she was asking me to rebuild .. . here’s what I found – the work of a woman who was claiming to be a professional web designer: [A] the site consisted of 8 html pages [B] each page consisted of some invalid html code produced by a WYSIWYG app, presumably used incorrectly since most WYSIWYG apps are CAPABLE of producing valid code. [C] the content on each page consisted of a single image for the header 1169px x 168px and another jpg image with all the text, photos etc 702px x 961px [D] because of the sizes of the header image and the body image, none of the pages could ever possibly line up across the page without a lot of tinkering about. [E] the html contained no content whatever, except the name of the designer [F] all links inside the pages were using image maps – something I haven’t used for about ten years. I don’t think I’d even remember how to do that now if I had to. [G] the layout problems caused by the different widths of the header and the image in the body were corrected by nesting tables with lots of cells and a transparent spacer gif to stretch the cells out. I didn’t bother working out why there were so many of these s pacer tables, I knew at a glance I wasn’t going to be needing anyth ing in this code! [H] because my client has had such trouble getting her site updated on a timely basis, she has taken the site away and is hosting it with me, which has sparked off a war between my client and her former web designer, complaining that I have taken her site by using a web archive, in violation of her rights to copyright. (As a first step, I used a browser to copy the files from her existing site, so I could see what’s in there, just in case the former desig ner decided to take it off line.Which she did. So it was a goo d precaution. Then while my client and I are discussing her new si te, I put the existing one up in her new hosting space with me just so the site stays alive while we work out what to do.You can al most hear the former web designer frothing at the mouth as she rants and raves on the phone DEMANDING that I pull everything down off th e web within ONE HOUR – OR ELSE!!) It’s like a cat fight.I’m expecting to see them both pulling each others hair, biting, and rolling in the mud any time soon. Anyway, I’d done quite a few sites now that I’ve enhanced by making them standards compliant, but I think this is the most extrem e case I’ve seen – well since I tried Frontpage v2.0 all those years ago. Maybe I can write it up as a case study later when the new site is up. If the client agrees. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Exemples to use microformats?
Here's one I made for news entries on a page that uses the hcard microformat: http://onewebguy.com/2008/02/23/marking-up-a-list-of-articles/ Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com Ronaldo Bitencourt - Webmaster wrote: I am looking for example to use microformtas, something relatively new here in brazil, someone can help me with some links? Tkss *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Implication of empty divs
Ben, That's a great link. It also shows that an extra empty element, while it may be the easy way out works across the board without side effects of any kind. Yes it is mixing content and presentation. Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:23 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis bhawkesle...@googlemail.com wrote: On 9/2/09 07:45, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: How can CSS overflow replace div style=clear:both;/div? See http://www.ejeliot.com/blog/59 -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Implication of empty divs
While the nbsp; does represent nothing in a way, it is something and I would say that it's use would be slighty worse than a purely empty element. Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer/Developer --- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 On Feb 9, 2009, at 5:47 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis bhawkesle...@googlemail.com wrote: On 9/2/09 02:44, Gerard Hynes (Gmail) wrote: I'm not expert about screen readers, but I did run a site I upgraded through JAWS with some interesting results. The site had alot of pnbsp;/p due to the CMS they were using and JAWS would translate this to/speak out blank which wasn't ideal. Am not sure if it would do the same forp/p ordiv/div ordiv /. Precise behavior will vary with publisher styling of the DOM, platform, browser (and version), screen reader (and version), user configuration, and the commands used when reading that part of the page. For example, JAWS 10 has a concept of blank lines. It will read out blank as you step through a document if you come to something that matches that concept. The following variations: pbar/p pbaz/p p style=margin: 0;padding: 0;bar/p p style=margin: 0;padding: 0;baz/p pbar/p pnbsp;/p pnbsp;/p pbaz/p pbar/p div/div pbaz/p pbar/p div/div div/div pbaz/p are _all_ read: bar blank baz It also has a configuration setting for whether blank lines should be spoken with the Say All command. If this is off (as it is by default), then the above variations would all be read: bar baz -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] seeking JavaScript Bible comments
I wouldn't worry about document.write examples too much. You just need to keep in mind that the book is designed to teach the language from scratch, and quite possibly the reader hasn't scripted before. Starting from point zero, document.write is a good way to get started learning and making things happen fast. I'll guess that the Bible-series programming books aren't necessarily considering standardistas. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com MichaelMD wrote: Also, the first examples of JavaScript tend to use document.write when illustrating the simplest parts of the language. Usage of document.write should be banned from day one. Encourage the readers to test simple A decade ago (Netscape 4 era) I used document.write in some javascript widgets for people display some content from another site by using a script tag. They still work in current browsers but javascript has come a long way since then! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Implication of empty divs
Agreed. An empty div is nothing. Same thing with an empty spans etc... Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com Christian Montoya wrote: On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Ben Lau bensan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Are there any (seriously) bad implications of having empty DIVs around your HTML document? No. p.s. ignore all the long-winded answers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Browser / OS Test on website.
Looks real good! The list item icons aren't showing up in IE6 - no biggie. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: j...@sitesbyjoe.com Danny Croft wrote: Hi All, I was wondering if any of you get a spare minute, could you cast your professional eyes over a site I just put online. Its only a small online resume type site. But I'd be interested to see if anyone could find any issues with it or had any suggestions for items that I may have missed. I have done some testing and it passed the online W3C Validation Service for both the markup and CSS. Also if anyone is running an OS other than OSX (v 10.5.6) then I'd be interested in your results on any of the current browers. Like I said, only if you get a minute. Link: http://dannythewebdev.com (almost forgot to add the link) Cheers, Danny *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] First Attempt
If we plan on working in the web design world, you'll find that the real world (at least for the moment) is far from standardized. Frames, iframes, flash, nested table madness - it's out there on both old sites _and_ new. Sometimes you have to go in and fix something on one of these sites...you might join a firm that strictly uses dreamweaver and contribute as their cms solution. It's a mad world! Plan on learning how to do each style as at some point you'll have to do it. Hand coding, dreamweaver (and pals) - plan on being familiar with both styles of development. /The yucky, proprietary dreamweaver template setup made me eventually ditch the software altogether. (using Coda right now) /CSS, javascript and jquery (and pals) - expect to have to deal with them all eventually. We'll skip server-side scripting/etc to be nice. If your cms of choice offers page caching, you can eliminate many of those unnecessary database requests etc. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael MD wrote: The way to make it work is to stop writing static HTML sites. Instead use one of the many freely available open source CMS frameworks and simply hand code the templates for them once (making hand coded changes for other customer sites as required). That's what we do with Drupal. I would not recommend this for sites on shared servers unless they really do need a full-featured CMS. Speed is important .. why add bloat if its not needed? A mysql server in a typical ISP shared hosting environment often struggles to handle a large number of statements per second from hundreds of sites .. especially when some of the sites are being hit hard by crawlers. ..most off-the-shelf CMS do way too many lookups to show even a simple page Drupal, Wordpress and Joomla are very bad in this regard (doing around 15-40 mysql lookups for each page!) ... Xoops seems better with its file-based caching but may still be overkill in a lot of cases. A lot of this waste comes from storing stats in mysql, looking up user data, etc ... (and in some cases attempting to use mysql even for caching! bad.. bad.. bad..) If you are not using user logins then why do all those extra lookups? I think part of the problem might be that a lot of CMS developers are not testing on busy shared servers or high-traffic sites. (they are probably only testing on dedicated servers where they have mysql to themselves and the bottlenecks might be elsewhere) I'm not going to tell people to spend extra cash for a dedicated server if all they want is a few simple static pages. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] img cannot be contained within the body?
If you're using XHTML, inline elements (like imgs) need to be contained within a block level element (like a div). On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:04 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very silly question that I cannot believe I am asking. I have never had to use img within the body tag. I was playing about with a test case for a client and happened to put img directly within the body (was for an image on screen with next and prev. links ... a gallery). I validated, and it was saying img needs to be contained. I checked the specs but could not see anything that was stating this. In the real application it wouldn't be directly within the body, because it would be within a page section div anyway, but am just curious. James. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Joseph R. B. Taylor Designer / Developer -- Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict
Correction on these links: http://www.mucu4u.org.nz/Home_61.aspx http://www.oneeast.co.nz/ http://www.colorfastsigns.co.nz/Home_34.aspx The first fails as HTML 4.01 Strict - no good The 2nd fails as HTML 4.01 Strict - no good The 3rd fails as HTML 4.01 Transitional - no good None are using XHTML 1.0, let alone the strict version. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Robin Gorry wrote: http://www.mucu4u.org.nz/Home_61.aspx http://www.oneeast.co.nz/ http://www.colorfastsigns.co.nz/Home_34.aspx Robin Gorry Senior Web Developer Xplore Net Solutions Xplore.net Website of the Week: Weleda (Australia) - www.weleda.com.au Weleda has a range of anthroposophic medicine - the simple yet powerful way to utilise nature's medicines to stimulate the body to 'heal itself'. Until recently their website did not accurately reflect their brand and they had no easy way to profile their product range to their Australian consumers. The new Weleda website is powered by the Xsite content manager, Xforms, Xshop, Xmembers and Xtend. Combined, this powerful toolset enables Weleda staff to add/edit/delete pages, text and imagery throughout their site, create online forms and surveys, provide an online product catalogue and issue logins to restricted access areas on their website. f: 00 64 (0)6 834 24 86 e : [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.xplore.net Take control of your website - ask me today about Xsite-tomorrows Content Management System CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Milner Sent: 08 October 2008 15:23 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict Hi, I was having a *chat* with some .NET developer colleagues and they challenged me to find a .NET site that achieves XHTML 1.0 strict compliance. Hoping to prove to them that it can be done. Does anybody know of some .NET sites which are XHTML 1.0 strict (or even transitional)? Thanks, Anthony *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Copycat site
Everyone (newbies to the list especially): Just a reminder about the purpose of this list and some of the things that happen on here you should be aware of: 1. This list's purpose is discussing items related to web standards. Sometimes the lines of what fits here are blurred and thats ok. I've been on the list for 2 years now (I think) and I've seen many, many topics come and go that range from appropriate to completely inappropriate. 2. Occasionally off-topic discussions go so far that the admins have to come in and give everyone a knock it off!. It happens. Sometimes new members get upset when scolded for such things. Its no big deal. Many of the members on this list are extremely knowledgeable and have been on this list for a long time and are frequent contributors and help A LOT of newbies. 3. These same people have seen many many newbies come and go, many with the same OT discussions they want to throw out at everyone - like in this instance copycat sites. That topic does not belong here. Plain and simple. 4. Grandma used to say, You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. In this case, the veteren member could not have put the OT reminder more nicely. In fact in 2 years its the most clear and pleasant way I may have seen, yet... 5. Then another global round of thousands if emails need to get generated so the other member can complain in the manner they were addressed. Then this email(there will be a bunch more too) 6. My point? This isn't Myspace. Leave the snippy remarks at the hair salon where they belong. This is supposed to be a community of clever minds and intelligent discussions - regarding web standards. Sorry - I just couldn't help myself from writing this post. I was once the snippy newbie to who yelled at members everytime I was mildly insultedit happens but hopefully we can rise above it. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes Adam, you're right - I will remember that for future posts... Maybe you can remember your social graces when replying. Quoting Adam Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ...and this is related to web standards how? I don't mind these posts - but please mark them [OT] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: [WSG] Copycat site This is the first time I've come across such an occurence naturally in the online world. I'm sure it happens all the time - this one seems just blatant to the point of having the same tabs in the navigation www.foryoung.com COPY OF www.webdesignerwall.com ___ Christian Fagan Fagan Design fagandesign.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Copycat site
Matthew Pennell wrote: On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 1:48 PM, Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a reminder about the purpose of this list and some of the things that happen on here you should be aware of: You missed out Don't top-post and trim replies... ;) -- - Matthew Good call! Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accesbility Help
If you want to avoid captchas, my recommendation would be to add a
question that would foil a robot. Just explain that this field is for
that specifically.
Something like:
fieldset
legendHuman Verification/legend
pThis section is used to thwart evil spam robots. Fill in the correct
answer./p
div
labelWhat color is the sky? (hint: blue)/label
input type=text name=human_verifier
/div
/fieldset
You're PHP would be:
?php
// check the answer
if ($_POST['human_verifier'] != 'blue')
{
// incorrect
echo 'Robot! Get out!');
}
else
{
// correct
echo 'Welcome, Human.';
}
?
This is obviously a very, very simple solution but it has worked on
reducing/removing form spam on a couple of my sites quite well while
being an accessible solution. I'm welcome to an contradictory thoughts
on this.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:
* Click the Essential eBiz Solutions logo to visit our home page
http://www.essentialebizsolutions.net *
* Hi All, *
* This is a mixed question, I have a contact form that I’m building.
I want to add a human verifier to the forms but not a captcha one
because they are far from accessible, I’m not that good at PHP
though to figure it out, I already use the Mikes Green Beast form
for general contact but this will be to process order request. I’ve
trawled the internet but all I can find is captcha solutions, can
any one point me in the right direction? *
* *
* Many thanks *
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
6 Gibson Place
Meir
Stoke-on-Trent
www.essentialebizsolutions.net http://www.essentialebizsolutions.net
** Disclaimer ** : This email and its attachments may be confidential
and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is
addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Essential eBiz
Solutions Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient of this email and
its attachments then please contact the sender and do not use or
forward this e-mail to anyone.
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd, Registered in England and Wales Company
Registration No: 57200784. Registered Office: 6, Gibson Place , Meir,
Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire , ST3 5PQ .
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CONFIDENTIAL: This email is intended for and confidential to the named
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Re: [WSG] Accesbility Help
Good call.
?php
// check the answer
if (strtolower($_POST['human_verifier']) != 'blue')
{
// incorrect
echo 'Robot! Get out!');
}
else
{
// correct
echo 'Welcome, Human.';
}
?
I agree that Mike's form is well made too. It takes my concept and adds
in all the other pieces you'd want for the complete solution.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote:
Hi Joseph,
?php
// check the answer
if ($_POST['human_verifier'] != 'blue')
{
// incorrect
echo 'Robot! Get out!');
}
else
{
// correct
echo 'Welcome, Human.';
}
?
You can make that a little more foolproof by setting the case of the
text before matching, upper or lower it doesn't matter, but either way
it'll prevent answers like Blue, BLUE, bLuE, etc. from triggering the
Robot! Get out! error.
Respectfully,
Mike Cherim
- Original Message - From: Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Accesbility Help
If you want to avoid captchas, my recommendation would be to add a
question that would foil a robot. Just explain that this field is for
that specifically.
Something like:
fieldset
legendHuman Verification/legend
pThis section is used to thwart evil spam robots. Fill in the
correct answer./p
div
labelWhat color is the sky? (hint: blue)/label
input type=text name=human_verifier
/div
/fieldset
You're PHP would be:
?php
// check the answer
if ($_POST['human_verifier'] != 'blue')
{
// incorrect
echo 'Robot! Get out!');
}
else
{
// correct
echo 'Welcome, Human.';
}
?
This is obviously a very, very simple solution but it has worked on
reducing/removing form spam on a couple of my sites quite well while
being an accessible solution. I'm welcome to an contradictory
thoughts on this.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd wrote:
* Click the Essential eBiz Solutions logo to visit our home page
http://www.essentialebizsolutions.net *
* Hi All, *
* This is a mixed question, I have a contact form that I’m building.
I want to add a human verifier to the forms but not a captcha one
because they are far from accessible, I’m not that good at PHP
though to figure it out, I already use the Mikes Green Beast form
for general contact but this will be to process order request. I’ve
trawled the internet but all I can find is captcha solutions, can
any one point me in the right direction? *
* *
* Many thanks *
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd
6 Gibson Place
Meir
Stoke-on-Trent
www.essentialebizsolutions.net http://www.essentialebizsolutions.net
** Disclaimer ** : This email and its attachments may be
confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual
to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely
those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient
of this email and its attachments then please contact the sender and
do not use or forward this e-mail to anyone.
Essential eBiz Solutions Ltd, Registered in England and Wales
Company Registration No: 57200784. Registered Office: 6, Gibson
Place , Meir, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire , ST3 5PQ .
Please consider the environmental impact of printing this e-mail.
CONFIDENTIAL: This email is intended for and confidential to the
named recipient. If you have received a copy in error, please accept
our apologies and destroy it. You may not use or disclose the
contents of this e-mail to anyone, nor take copies of it. The only
copies permitted are to be made by the named recipient and for the
purpose of completing successful electronic transmission to the
named recipient and then only on condition that these copies, with
this notice attached, are kept confidential until destruction
Hosting Plans http://www.krystal.co.uk/aff/aff.php?id=135_1
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Re: [WSG] Code for Firefox, hack for IE
My 2 cents: I've been coding CSS layouts since 2003. I've probably laid out several hundred sites at this point. Today, I always code on FF first (yes for the tools). Yes, Opera renders a little more accurately. Once you learn little CSS tricks to stabilize floated items, their containers etc your pages should look good in Opera and Safari first run when coded on FF. Once you learn the troublespots in IE (widths with padding, dealing with heights) they're easy to spot and fix. Many of the issues can be solved by one extra element in your html (or one less depending). Best way to troubleshoot if you haven't dealt with all the bugs is to remove stuff from your page until you can isolate your trouble spot. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] huzairy rezuan wrote: I think that I've read about this in Andy Clarke's Transcending CSS book. Maybe it's under the Progressive Enhancement approach. On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 9:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi David, I wouldnt say that I code for Firefox, more that I code in immaculate standards compliant code and that it seems to work best in Firefox, Safari and Opera ;) You are right though - make for standard complient browsers and then use conditional statements for IE. Most of the time these are to fix very minimal spacing issues. This isnt much but this article on sitepoint defines that firefox is the browser for web developers: http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2008/08/29/would-you-switch-to-ie8/ Darren Lovelock Munkyonline.co.uk http://Munkyonline.co.uk Quoting David McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, For a while now, I've been operating on the principle Code for Firefox, hack for IE. That is, writing CSS for the most standards-compliant browser, and then making adjustments for non-standard behaviour. I said this in a meeting last week to argue a point and my boss said who says?. I could have said me, but maybe that's not a good enough answer. Somewhere some years ago I read this, or heard someone at a conference or something and it got stuck in my head. Is this the way anyone works? Is it the best way to work? Does anyone know where I got this idea from? Book? Blog? A bit of googling this afternoon turned up not very much. Thanks, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] how to use images and text in a menue
Or you could:
style type=text/css
/*
-
I'm assuming you've already reset the
padding and margins on all elements involved
-*/
ul#nav li {
background: url(my-image.jpg) no-repeat;
}
ul#nav li a {
padding-top: ?px; // match the height of the image
display: block;
// you may or may not need this
min-height: ?px;
_height: ?px; // a little fix for ie6 and friends
}
/style
!--HTML--
ul id=nav
lia href=my-page.htmMy Page/a/li
/ul
That's the way I'd do it. There are many, many ways to achieve this effect.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Svip wrote:
Try style=background:url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left; width:
imagewidthpx; height: imageheightpx; for the first a.
I'd probably do something like this:
lia href=# id=home-linkHome/a/li
Then in CSS:
#home-link {
background: url(images/home.png) no-repeat top left;
width: WIDTHpx;
height: HEIGHTpx;
overflow: hidden;
padding-top: HEIGHTpx;
}
That way, people using a graphical browser won't see the text, but
people using a text-based browser and search engines will see the
text. Of course, you could just use alt= in the img / tag, but
that is not pretty either.
Regards,
Svip
2008/8/28 Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
How would people suggest if I have a menu with an image on top and text
underneath and I want both the text and the image as a link
I'm thinking of making them link items and use css to move the image on top
of the text. Does that sound semantically correct.
lia href=#img src=images/home.png //a /li
lia href=#HOME/a/li
--
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
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Re: [WSG] Question about accessibility
People have already said this, but an unordered list, a little css and some sprites allow for very graphically rich navigation that is usable in almost all circumstances. I have been putting image replaced navigation on all my sites for some time. You could even use a big photograph. Posting what you're trying to do will get you better answers than basic generic responses like this. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jason Pruim wrote: Honestly, I think he just wants a very specific look... He also thinks it looks neater then using plain txt I'll talk to him about it and let him know about the possible down falls with the whole thing... After I read up on image maps that is :) I'm assuming they rely on some sort of client side script? But I haven't googled yet so feel free to ignore the question :) On Aug 27, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Rick Faircloth wrote: You're right about a client like that being a pain in the rear. I had a client who wanted customers to contact them via email, but didn't want to use a contact form and didn't want them to just use a link to email from the website. He was dead-set against forms even though they were the answer. He was so hard to work with, I eventually cut him loose. (Glad I got 50% of the cost up front! :o) I imagine this image-map client was just after a certain look and had been told by someone that an image map was the answer and wasn't open to other solutions which are better and provide the same results. Rick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:45 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Question about accessibility Hi Rick, If any client were to tell me how to code their website I would probably tell them to go elsewhere. The client is more than likely going to be a pain throughout the project and then also when making payment. Obviously this is within reason - design aspects - of course they decide. When it comes to the coding, the client most certainly does not know best! If they want it to be of a high quality and well optimised then I will make it using the best of my abilities. There's no reason that they should specify how it is coded, unless they're a developer and they need it formatted in a specific way. This must not be a normal customer anyway if they know about image maps. I'm interested to know why they requested it in the first place.. Quoting Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Darren... I find your comment, I would most certainly not allow the use of an image map, interesting. What would you do, as is Jason's situation, if your client demands it? You can always turn down the work, but would you simply because a client wants to do something that you don't like? Rick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 7:39 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Question about accessibility Hi Jason, I would most certainly not allow the use of an image map. They are only useful for defining polygon or circular areas on maps (or similar) as links. They are not good for a sites primary navigation. For navigation that is consisting of an image I would create an unordered list: ul id=nav li class=img1link1/li li class=img2link1/li li class=img3link1/li /ul Set the main img background on ul#nav to go behind all the links then set the individual link graphics on each list item anchor - li.img? a Make the anchors display:block and you can then define height and width of the link. Then when images are turned off you are still left with a fully accessible menu. Darren Lovelock Munkyonline.co.uk Quoting Jason Pruim [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Good Morning everyone! I have a client that wants me to write his navigation mostly as a picture and then use image maps to get to the actual links. I am wondering, how would I go about convincing my client that this isn't the best way to do it? I personally think that some nice text links, styled properly with CSS would look just as good if not better then image maps. Oh, and to put it into context, it's a picture rating site so I don't know that Blind users are going to be too much of a concern for him since they can't see what the main part of the site is for. Any info I could get about this would be wonderful! Thanks everyone! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] W3C Validation Question
Well for starters you're missing your opening html tag... Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nancy Johnson wrote: I just ran the following page through the W3C validator. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ewr/instances.cfm and the only thing it didn't like was the way I displayed the metatags. I got 4 errors. These are metatags that have been there long before I came and integrated them into the new style sheet. I don't feel comfortable deleting them. Any thoughts? Nancy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] form from the 7th level of hell
If the markup has to stay as it is now, your problems are probably
coming from images for one thing. IE7 adds the 3 pixel padding to the
bottom of the images so getting equal heights will be tough.
You should be able to get the cells to behave somewhat with this classic:
td {
min-height: 50px;
_height: 50px; /* for IE7 */
}
Then again...
Why IS this 2 different tables? It seems the data in the left table is
part of the grid of the 2nd table.
Putting the tables together in markup would alleviate the issues you are
having in the presentation and make the relationship of the data more
proper.
I'd do something like this:
table
captionAllocation Table/caption
thead
tr
th scope=colRoom Type amp; Period Totals/th
th scope=rowDate/th
th scope=colTue 05 Aug/th
etc...
You can mix up td and th as long as you specify what the headers are
covering, be it a column or row.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kevin mcmonagle wrote:
Ok here it is-Im just putting this up here as a last ditch effort.
http://67.199.64.89/newtable3.html
Can anyone offer advice on fixing/locking table cell/row height across
browsers?
The main problem is making the two adjacent tables appear to be one
continuous table. Getting the cell height to line up is proving very
difficult, maybe impossible. It aligns ok in ff3 but breaks in ie6
and ie7 both in different ways. Im using the height html attribute
right now because i cant think of another way to fix the height of
cells with the differnt kinds of different data in them.
Im trying to fix a broken .net layout with css and html.
Its never going to validate, theres nothing i can do about that.
-best
kevin
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Re: [WSG] form from the 7th level of hell
Kevin, If I may make a recommendation, adjust the background color of your cells to match the bottom color of your background gradients so when text gets enlarged it still looks smooth inside the cell rather than having the graphic cut off. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] kevin mcmonagle wrote: yes for some reason programmer needs two tables which was the big issue for me. I have the height alignments just about worked out now though. Regarding the color, there isnt much color in the table layout, unless you counting black which is a shade like white. The input boxes have to be color coded i need to adjust those as they are quite busy at the moment. -thanks kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Marking up a Calendar
Definitely a table for a calendar, like: table captionAugust 2008/caption thead tr th scope=colSun/th th scope=colMon/th th scope=colTue/th th scope=colWed/th th scope=colThu/th th scope=colFri/th th scope=colSat/th /tr /thead tbody tr td1/td td2/td you get the idea. We would mark up a calendar as a list only if we weren't planning displaying the dates based on the day of the week. Like a funky futuristic calendar. A time line would be marked up as a list for sure. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bruce wrote: 8bits Media wrote: We currently have a project that includes a calendar in the design. The dilemma I currently have, is what is the best way to mark the calendar up? Should we use tables, or is it more semantically correct these days to use an unordered list? I'd be very interested to here peoples thoughts on the matter. Thanks, Nick Lazar 8bits Media To me a calendar is columns and rows of data, so a table works fine. Bruce bkdesign solutions *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] dl question
To clarify, when people use a definition list for something other than actual definitions and terms, they usually use the dt's and dd's to represent the relationship of the items within the dl. For example - markup for a list of properties for sale: dl dtPhoto of Property/dt dtAddress of Property/dt ddPrice of Property/dd ddBeds and Baths/dd /dl dl dtPhoto of Property/dt dtAddress of Property/dt ddPrice of Property/dd ddBeds and Baths/dd /dl dl dtPhoto of Property/dt dtAddress of Property/dt ddPrice of Property/dd ddBeds and Baths/dd /dl dl dtPhoto of Property/dt dtAddress of Property/dt ddPrice of Property/dd ddBeds and Baths/dd /dl In this case the dt's handle the terms, or way we identify a property - by a picture of it or by address. The dd's handle the attributes of the property: bedrooms, baths, price etc. You can apply this principle to almost any information - sometimes a tabular layout works even better - it just depends on your needs. The dl used in this examples works great on crappy cellphones since its elements stack. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stuart Foulstone wrote: A dl is a LIST of definition terms and their description. dt is a definition term to be described (not title). dd is description of the definition term. See http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 On Mon, August 4, 2008 4:20 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was under the impression a dl could only contain one dt and one or many dd's. But I have just come across a piece of code that uses multiple dt's in the one dl Upon further investigation, it seems this is legitimate practicebut does it make sense?!?! Semantically, isn't the whole point of a dl to use definition data tags (dd's) to describe a definition title (dt)!? Does it make sense to have multiple definition titles in the same dl?! Or does it make more sense to have a seperate dl for each dt?? __ Christian Fagan Fagan Design fagandesign.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: IE6 support - was - Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?
Ladies and Gentlemen, The opposite is true as well. I don't do work for large entities - only very small local businesses so I can share their own situation. Theres no question in my mind that these entities make up a huge share of computer usage. This typical office I work has computers that fall into these groups: The new computers (usually just a couple reserved for the people on them constantly like secretaries etc) - always Dells with either XP sp2 or Vista. Both have IE7 installed. This covers occasional laptops people bring from home etc too. The normal computers (all Dell Dimensions with celerons and around 3-4 years old) These computers represent the business's major technology investment and all have IE6 and are slow as hell. The old computers (they all seem to still have ONE floating around) that has wither win2000, ME, or 98 (its true!) that are typically hidden in the back of the office. Point being, large organizations making major migrations to ease the burden of web development isn't going to happen at a rate that would please us. Most of these organizations will only migrate if something disastrous happens. I imagine: As CEOs iron out what to do with profits for the year do you really think any one of them are saying I was gonna pocket this money or spend it on my mistress, but instead lets get the work force some new computers, I noticed that images using alpha channels are not displaying properly for the slaves. I say probably not My 2 cents. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Ellis wrote: Hi Mike No worries, not interested in war, but I do understand. I guess the one big answer about why change is that, over time, sites will just stop working to their full efficiency. There is also the big one called security (or lack of). I hope, but I don't think, that this fabled desktop image would include FF3, Safari 3 or Opera 9.5 as the default browser :D even IE7 gives me the odd grey hair still. I can only think the organisations that can't upgrade are those completely welded to IE6 because their interfaces only work in that browser OR those that are still using Windows 95/98/2000. If their IT setup is structured that way wellthey've got their own hole to dig out of. I guess what I'm getting at is that for new clients or redevelopments, we can do a lot to educate clients and customers and following on from that improve our lot as developers -- maybe even hasten IE6's demise. Thanks! James On Monday 04 August 2008 20:23:10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not wanting to hijack the PNG thread, so I've altered the subject. I understand the issues involve in huge migrations, it's not that easy.. At the risk of starting a war, it doesn't sound like you do understand. Before even starting to plan a migration, any decent corporation, of whatever size, must first demonstrate a business advantage to the task. The bigger the organisation is, the more likely they will have a desktop image (XP Pro) that can be applied to any machine they buy in, regardless of what is on it, so neither hardware obsolescence nor the withdrawal of software support holds a big fear for most. The true question is not 'why not upgrade to IE7?' but actually 'why change?'. I can give numerous reasons to upgrade to FF, but no real reasons to upgrade to IE7. As an aside, I am not at all worried by this - it was the longevity of IE4 that did most to make people aware of the alternatives; hopefully IE6 will have the same effect: a little more short-term pain for some long-term gain as they switch to Safari. Regards, Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] What is the best solution for IE6 png issue?
In the end IE6 isn't going to be 100% if you're using .png files. Even the javascripts out there cause odd bugs - things like link over .png backgrounds not working etc. My advice and what I do in actual practice - use conditional comments to address IE6 and lower and replace all instances of .png with a .gif. Yes, it doesn't look as nice the .pngs, but then again everything looks like crap on them - just look at the non-aliased text! Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Сергей Кириченко wrote: not to use png with alpha in IE6 ) just like adobe.com (look at drop-down menu in different browsers) sri ni пишет: Hi All, What is the best *solution *for IE6 PNG issue? -- Thanks, Srini Perumal *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Validation
Many parts of the object tag can make a validator upset - especially the embed portion. You're best bet is to add the flash using javascript via one of the popular scripts like swfobject, ufo etc... Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fuji kusaka wrote: Hi everyone, I have a flash animation in my webpage and this causes a big problem when i have to validate the page. Can someone help me out? -- Fuji kusaka *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Help with div tags in Dreamweaver CS3
Susan,
Firstly,
If you're making this page in wysiwyg mode, there's not much we can do
to help.
If not,
For your flash backgrounds, add:
param name=wmode value=transparent
and a wmode=transparent to your flash code.
A one column center aligned page is really easy:
html
head
style type=text/css
body {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
div#one_column {
margin: 0 auto;
width: 780px;
}
/style
/head
body
div id=one_column
...assorted content of your choosing with alignment etc
taken care of
/div
/body
/html
Layout using CSS takes a little getting used to. Learn the quirks
involvesWhen you run into trouble, go backwards and remove things until
you isolate your problem element(s) and then a well worded search
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
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Susan Levin wrote:
Hello everyone. I am pretty new to Dreamweaver and CSS and Flash. I
have created pieces for a new website and I desperately want to make
the jump to using CSS for all placement...but don't know where to
start. My client is patiently waiting and I am pulling my hair out by
now. A comp of what I am trying to get my master page to look like can
be found here:
http://www.thewowfactorcakes.com/comp.html
And here is the page that is up and waiting for some placement help:
http://www.thewowfactorcakes.com/
I need first of all the make the white background go away for both the
handwriting swf file and the fade in and fade out images file below that.
I created this page from a one column fixed centered template in
Dreamweaver CS3.
Can anyone come to my rescue? Sincerely, mango2020
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Re: [WSG] Reset CSS
The reset.css (in the form you mention) first came about from css developers who set the same defaults again and again as they made sites. They obviously realized they repeated themselves and eventually created a separate stylesheet to handle that. I did this myself (I chose the name global.css). I'd end up with a css structure like: /CSS/ - - reset.css (set universal defaults) - screen.css (set screen defaults) - mypage.css (page specific styles) - print.css (set print defaults) - handheld.css (small screen defaults) As far as using frameworks, its a great idea that has far to go still so use sparingly. I prefer the http://960.gs framework. Low on bloat. Again use sparingly. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Miles Menegon wrote: Hello all, Wondering what your thoughts are on whether to use a 'reset' framework for CSS. I've noticed that quite a few people on the list use it to try to overcome default browser behaviour / user-defined browser preferences. I understand the benefit of trying to level the playing field in terms of cross-browser rendering, but shouldn't we be giving users at least some control over how they like to view the web? And by using a 'reset' framework, aren't we just compensating for poor standards compliance on behalf of IE? How does a reset framework compare with an IE-only stylesheet, for instance? Thoughts... M *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Stumped need suggestions - how to highlight two links at once
You would want to use an external javascript file. Your javascript file would need to: 1. watch the links in question for a mouseover event 2. if the event fires change something visual about the link and whichever other link meets a set of criteria. To be more specific, you'd have to post code/url Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Likely, James A. wrote: Hello, I need help/suggestions. Want to highlight two links at once if you rollover on of them. I attached an example to make things easier. Basically if you rollover the risks on the right side of the page, the same link would highlight in the left navigation. I am able to get this working using target and hover if they are in the same li but as you can see that would not be the case for this. I am stumped and not sure where to look. Does any one have any suggestions on how this could be done while keeping web standards in mind? Thanks for the help! James hrascreen.jpg *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Definition lists for testimonials
Definition Lists are wonderful markup tools. They do create a nice relationship between element pairs and I find myself sometimes using them for lists of real estate properties for sale: Something like: dl dtproperty photo //dt dtaddress, city st zip/dt ddprice/dd ddbeds / baths/dd /dl You can style them well in a wide range of ways and without any styling, additionally the raw dl display natural indentation also explains the relationship. Browsing properties The photo/address (what I would say we humans consider the property's definition term) Then, descriptive features like bedrooms, baths etc (which are to be considered the definition description). At the same time, microformats could be used... div class=vcard div class=testimonial...Testimonial Text/div div class=orgName of Client's Company/div /div Or even something like: p class=testimonialI want to take the time to let you know that both of our websites get many compliments daily. You did a great job. Thanks. span class=fromClient Name/span/p// Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rick Lecoat wrote: Hi, I need to mark up a list of client testimonials. At first I was going to do it with a UL but then I thought about the multi-part nature of each 'item' (Client's quote, client's name, client's company) and figured that a definition list might be a better option. My only reservation about that is the fact that by using the established structure: dl dt client's quote /dt dd client's name /dd dd client's company /dd /dl ...the 'term' will be way longer than the two 'definitions'. But clearly the client name and company name should come after the quotation. Is this actually un-semantic or is it just slightly counter-intuitive? Can a DT be 10 times the length of its DDs? Alternatively, should I be looking at a blockquote/paragraph combination instead? (that doesn't feel as elegant because it lacks the self-contained nature of a DT/DD set). Suggestions welcome. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
I've used flash sites that have been poorly done - confusing interfaces etc. Awful Experience. I've used flash sites that have been built well. Excellent experience. Accessible? Not really, but... If you're providing a fall-back HTML version you're covered. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael Persson wrote: The company I worl with has a big love for full flash websites and we have produced some very nice but heavy and slow ones. What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full flash websites?? where is the usability and accessibility for flash in general?? I am personally and professionally against them as they cut of the usabiity, have bad accessibility and for me the navigation most often i very difficult and difficult to use. Michael Persson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
I suppose it wouldn't matter if you used a class or id, but the id can
be linked to from within the document, so if your page had a table of
contents or something, you could jump from point to point.
Id's have to be unique on the page, so they are perfect for attaching to
the unique sections of the document, so you could structure a document like:
div id=header
div id=logo /
div id=nav /
/div
div id=content /
div id=main_content /
div id=sub_content /
/div
div id=footer /
This makes css more specific. I can easily say make all text in my main
content 100%, but sub content should be smaller and lighter lets say:
#main_content {
font-size: 100%;
color: #000;
}
#sub_content {
font-size: 80%;
color: #666;
}
Or you could get really specific, lets say the only links on the page
that wouldn't be underlined would be links within unordered list items
that are nested within other list items, and only in the subcontent section:
#subcontent ul li ul li a {
text-decoration: none;
}
Any other links in lists would be left alone. This specificity with no
extra classes - all thanks to one id set on a parent element.
As far separation, the less classes etc you have in your document the
better I say since the raw document needs none. As soon as you add
classes etc you begin to intertwine the two. Obviously its a huge
improvement from tag soup even with a bunch of classes all over the place.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
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Fax: (866) 301-8045
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Michael Horowitz wrote:
Can you explain to me a little bit more of the theory of why you
would want to use and id vs a class called center is this type of
situation.
Trying to understand more how this becomes an issue of separating
presentation and content.
Thanks
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or
center goes against separation of presentation and content.
In a situation where your HTML looks like:
div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div
You should change it to something like:
div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div
Then your CSS rule could look more like:
#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}
One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center,
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to
isolate the elements you wish to style.
In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a
little more future proof.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
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Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
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Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Or use a CSS class to do the same,
div class=”centre”
and
.centre {
text-align: center;
}
On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
What about div style=”text-align: center” ?
Diego La Monica
Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
_
Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Hi,
I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible
alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?
For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width
and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.
What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how
many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the
only
way
I can think of.
Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?
I’d be interested in your opinions
Cheers
Simon
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Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Yes, its really easy to add class names as you need them and there is a
level where it seems both logical and usefuul.
Sadly that is not the reality though. Patrick hit the nail in the head
when he mentioned changing designs and having that once relevant class
name end up attaching styles that no longer match the name you
originally chose.
Adding a class name of centre is just as bad as picking something like
red.
If you take a step back when preparing to apply classes to things,
you'll find that you are always thinking all the links in the nav
section or something to that effect, hence using the single class or id
on the parent element and selectors to achieve what you want.
To climb down fro the soapbox and into a working reality you have to
break these rules sometimes. Every page I've ever made that uses any
floats has somewhere a:
div class=clear/div
with matching css:
div.clear {
clear: both;
}
I could come up with fancy workarounds but in the midst of deadlines
I'll add one superfluous element anytime.
Same thing with my navigations:
I always:
ul
lia href=#Link Textspan/span/a/li
/ul
Yes, the extra span shouldn't be there. Having it there always me to
perform elegant image replacements and degrades gracefully. The mere
site of that HTML may send some of our members to instantly flame that
practice.
The bottom line is that there is a pleasant middle ground that exists
between perfect standards compliance and accomplishing what you want.
Like anything else you should only break the rules if you know the rules
- just in case
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
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IceKat wrote:
How is using a name which is descriptive and easy to remember and
understand (like for those coming in after you've written the code)
going against that separation? It's not actually putting the styling
in the html and if anything it saves coding. If you have a class of
center then you can define it in your stylesheet as
.center{
text-align: center
}
and anything has that attribute, including divs, headings, paragraphs
etc. Imagine creating and writing a class for everything like that
which needs it! You'd wind up with 50 extra lines of code and a bigger
file and therefore longer download time.
Plus if it's a class then you don't have to worry about it being used
more than once on a page and you know exactly which name to use when
you need that attribute as will anyone else who comes across it later.
IceKat
Joseph Taylor wrote:
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or
center goes against separation of presentation and content.
In a situation where your HTML looks like:
div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div
You should change it to something like:
div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div
Then your CSS rule could look more like:
#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}
One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center,
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to
isolate the elements you wish to style.
In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a
little more future proof.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Or use a CSS class to do the same,
div class=”centre”
and
.centre {
text-align: center;
}
On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
What about div style=”text-align: center” ?
Diego La Monica
Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
_
Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Hi,
I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible
alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?
For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width
and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.
What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how
many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the
only
way
I can think
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
FYI - Adding such a named class, especially with the name center or
center goes against separation of presentation and content.
In a situation where your HTML looks like:
div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
div class=centre
my images /
/div
/div
You should change it to something like:
div id=my_section
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
div
my images /
/div
/div
Then your CSS rule could look more like:
#my_section div {
text-align: center;
margin: 5px;
}
One day you'll wish that div didn't have the class name of center,
especially if there are a bunch of them. Just give an id to the
container that would hold them all and use your css selectors to isolate
the elements you wish to style.
In the end, either choice will create the same effect. This one is a
little more future proof.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
--
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
Fax: (866) 301-8045
Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Stuart Foulstone wrote:
Or use a CSS class to do the same,
div class=”centre”
and
.centre {
text-align: center;
}
On Sat, May 3, 2008 10:22 am, Diego La Monica wrote:
What about div style=”text-align: center” ?
Diego La Monica
Web 2.0 - Standards - Accessibilità
mobile: +39 3337235382 - skype: diego.la.monica
web: http://diegolamonica.info - http://jastegg.it
_
Da: Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Inviato: sabato 3 maggio 2008 11.15
A: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Oggetto: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Hi,
I know that the align attribute such as div align=”center” is not
allowed
in XHTML Strict, but it got me thinking on what the possible alternatives
are for a dynamic environment such as a forum?
For instance if I know the image width or the total width of all the
images
will be the same I usually put them in a wrapper with a fixed width and
use
margin: 5px auto as an example.
What happens if you will never know the width of the images or how many
images someone may post, as happens on a forum I run. I’ve resorted to
creating a bbcode tag that uses div align=”center” as that is the only
way
I can think of.
Are these scenarios always doomed to use transitional doctypes and
deprecated code?
I’d be interested in your opinions
Cheers
Simon
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Re: [WSG] will this ever validate?(swfobject 2.0)
All the javascript methods for embedding flash use a script within the page to replace a div with the flash code, which is another way validation fails. If you write an unobtrusive script that adds the script tag to the page once the dom loads, you can write a fallback for the flash for non-script people and everyone should be happy. A proper fallback would be an image, or paragraph outlining the content of the movie etc. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Jeffery wrote: Embedding flash has always been and issue and always will be in HTML 4.01. There are lots of methods but there are problems with all of them (as i'm aware). I think the best way of doing it is follow what the SWFObject documentation recommends. You could always dynamically include the Flash, but that would cause problems for users without JavaScript. Im not aware of the HTML 5 developments (i know, i know, i should be but im a busy guy) but maybe there is a fix in the future. Regards On 5/1/08, *kevin mcmonagle* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Im trying swf object 2.0. http://www.seaviewnightclub.com/mockup2.html Im using the static-standards compliant method that uses conditional comments. I thought it would validate better than this. Theres a lot of unclosed errors on the param tags. Should i just self close those i wonder? Theres also errors with ids being defined twice. Is anyone else usign swfobject 2.0 here, if so are you using dynamic or static method and why? -best kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
Patrick, To clarify the below statement: It's really aimed at people who are newer to this stuff and who may be confused/ignorant about doctypes and/or just using whatever doctype Dreamweaver defaults to or whatever, after reading through both Thierry and Russ's example links and thinking about everyone on this list who may be using XHTML served as text/html simply because its newer combined with my own learning over the years and my statement is based on: Lowest common denominator - HTML MimeType issues (IE and application-xml) Both of these points can be dug into further and turned into another HTML vs XHTML conversationbut lets not. So to re-state my previous statement in its new publicized version: If you're new to doctypes and want to play it safe, or are learning css etc, stick with HTML 4.01 Strict while the work is completed on (X)HTML5. Sure, you can use XHTML as it exists in any of its flavors if you wish, but if you aren't aware of little issues involvedwhy? Please, again I'm not trying to start another HTML vs. XHTML thread I swear. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Joseph Taylor wrote: Great information and clarification everyone. If anyone hasn't taken an underlying message away from the conversation so far, it is to use HTML 4.01 Strict for you web documents when possible... I wonder where you're getting that message from, to be honest... P *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
Andrew, Of course its based on taste. Personally I prefer the stricter coding rules of XHTML, but I've found that WYSIWYG editors for the CMSs I produce for clients are far happier in a plain ol' HTML environment. Its probably the editor I usebut none are perfect! My own site is XHTML 1.0 Strict. All the commercial work I do is in HTML 4.01 Strict. I haven't done a site with a transitional doctype since 2005 when I had first learned about the doctypes and the role they play in the rendering of your documents by browsers. In the end, any of the doctypes, strict or transitional, will allow a user to view the information on a page. No one has been able to prove hands-down the best way to go one way or the other. IMO HTML 4.01 is now a closed book. Its safe It is what it is and its clear that eventually HTML5 will step in. I feel the XHTML has a more haphazard future in the fact that there are a couple branches running - perhaps someone could quickly clarify the status/future of: XHTML 1.0 XHTML 1.1 XHTML 2 XHTML5 Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Maben wrote: On Apr 30, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Joseph Taylor wrote: stick with HTML 4.01 Strict while the work is completed on (X)HTML5 IMHO (and given the depth and breadth of the replies to my original post I'm feeling very humble right now, as well as extremely grateful to you all) - I do think that given the current state of the art this is the best approach, at least for me. But, indeed, let's not get into XHTML vs. HTML - I understand and respect the XHTML proponents' viewpoint, but in the end isn't it a choice based on personal taste? Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
The transitional doctype was created to simply allow an easier transition between doctypes as people updated their sites to newer, more advanced doctypes. In the past it meant changing HTML3.2 pages to HTML 4.1. More recently it meant moving towards and XHTML 1x strict doctypes from something else. Honestly, in the end there isn't too much difference other than allowing for some extra elements and attributes that are banned in strict, e.g. the target attribute for links, font tags etc... Strict is certainly the way all doctypes are supposed to be in an information utopia. However, transitional isn't going away. It'll be a tough argument to make to a non-nerd. Your argument might be better based in true facts and statistics vs. the good fight. For example, I don't use the strict doctype because, its better, cooler etc. I use it because it makes IE6 more predictable as the traditional doctype puts the browser into quirks mode which makes for a few more css display oddities. Accessibility falls on deaf ears frequently. Replace that argument with the case of cellphone users etc having an acceptable experience. Does your site work on a crappy phone? Usability should be a prime concern - perhaps the ultimate concern. Accessibility, standards - all these things are under the umbrella of usability. A truly usable site would be valid, using recommended standards and accessible to all. The zealots will argue to only use strict no matter what! Tell that to godaddy, yahoo or any of those other big companies using SiteBuilder to fill the web with a bunch of crap transitional documents. Your boss is a business man. If the dollars and cent of what you propose don't make sense - forget it. Make your future additions valid. Change one page on the site to a slimmer strict doctype and see if you can find some ways to show that one is superior, be it bandwidth, cellphone performance or whatever. Good luck! Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Maben wrote: I'm finding myself having to justify my work methods to a boss who has almost zero interest in usability, accessibility or standards. (Though I have managed to get into the long-term plan: ...website that is compliant with W3C standards and Section 508...) One question that has been raised is if site X has pages that validate as transitional, why do you have to produce pages that validate as strict? To my embarrassment I don't have a ready answer - I realise that it's something that I've essentially taken on faith. Any one care to help fill in the blanks? Pages that validate as strict are superior to transitional because ___. It is important to serve pages that validate as strict because ___. Thanks in advance. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider
An example? Text-only browsers. No visual styles! However, a list of images is exactly what you're serving to the visitor, right? Ugly, yes. Semantically correct? Quite. Furthermore, I'm willing to bet that plenty of text-only users frequently encounter lists of images and wouldn't be thrown off by it. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Freedman wrote: James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM: that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a list You have users that block CSS?? I have never come across that. Can you give an instance as to where and why you would cater for these visitors? Thanks. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] JS Image Slider
I'll chime in to mention that people who intentionally turn off CSS, or use their own specific styles to override defaults represent a TINY percentage of users. TINY. For me personally, testing without CSS is a mute point since I spend a fair amount of time creating a nice naked document to begin with. There isn't any other reliable method - especially since we can't predict what one of these user-defined stylesheets would contain. Good point to bring up though. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Harris wrote: Andrew Freedman wrote: James Jeffery provided the following information on 30/04/2008 12:27 AM: that will mean that users without CSS will get a bunch of images in a list You have users that block CSS?? I have never come across that. Can you give an instance as to where and why you would cater for these visitors? Perhaps not block, but who substitute your css for one of their own which is better for their browsing experience. It may be a high contrast big text version to help with poor vision, it may be something that expands the clickable field around an object (by increasing external padding - to be honest, I don't even know if that's possible) if they have mobility issues, or they may just have a fascination for purple and beige as their link colours. I don't think you can ever assume that a user is going to use your css as you intended. I turn off css all the time when I'm testing for accessibility - always have. mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] transitional vs. strict
Great information and clarification everyone. If anyone hasn't taken an underlying message away from the conversation so far, it is to use HTML 4.01 Strict for you web documents when possible... Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nikita The Spider The Spider wrote: On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Andrew Maben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm finding myself having to justify my work methods to a boss who has almost zero interest in usability, accessibility or standards. (Though I have managed to get into the long-term plan: ...website that is compliant with W3C standards and Section 508...) One question that has been raised is if site X has pages that validate as transitional, why do you have to produce pages that validate as strict? One argument against the use of transitional doctypes is that they're now more than eight years old which makes them about half as old as the Web itself. Do you want to base your site on what was status quo half a Web lifetime ago? Good luck *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:866-301-8045 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Question on YUI
YUI / Blueprint / jQuery / MooTools / Scriptaculous / Code Igniter / Cake PHP etc. The thing you need to remember with any framework - use only what you need. Does using a framework mean you need to construct a menu with javascript? Heck no. Do you need to use any of the supplied tools? No. Should you use it to aid in specific tasks that it helps with? Sure. I was against frameworks for a long time - but now I use, Code Igniter for my PHP work (again, only as necessary), jQuery for my Javascript (as needed), and I'm using a modded version of the 960 grid system along with my regular css. In no event do I exclusive rely on the framework (though I've really dug into Code Igniter) and I always write my own stuff along side. I wouldn't recommend using any framework until you're comfortable with the tools its built for first. I'd never use YUI until I knew how to replicate many of the things it accomplishes by hand first. I wouldn't use jQuery if I wasn't comfortable writing scripts from scratch. Same thing with Code Igniter and PHP. I've done some many layouts that use hand-written floats and clears to mimic grid systems that I finally said, Why not? In the end its a couple superfluous div tags with presentational class names Many will cry blasphemy, and I'd be one if I hadn't properly weighed the options and discovered a middle ground that seems to work. Point: A new tool in the tool box can help speed up certain tasks, but no framework or tool is the be all, end all of web development in any form. At least not yet. The frameworks are for the most part wonderfully made and thought out. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Jeffery wrote: I see. Cheers for the reply. On 4/28/08, *David Dorward* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 28 Apr 2008, at 11:35, James Jeffery wrote: Call me wrong but from my knowledge relying soley on JavaScript and JSON for a menu is a bad idea when accessibility is concerned. Generally speaking, yes, although there are exceptions. Do they expect the users to create alternatives for users who would not be using Javascipt? Yes. The example that i quickly looked over is: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/topnavfromjswithanim.html http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/menu/topnavfrommarkupwithanim.html is the same menu built from markup instead of JS. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:886-301-8045 tel;home:609-886-9660 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Strange things indeed
I'll assume the margin/padding/border reset is part of a complete css
reset/restyle attempt.
You don't need to set all borders to 0 - I can't think of any bordered
elements other than the button offhand and you'd add in the table border
settings as part of your css reset separately.
That said, the beginning of your css file be:
* {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
For tables:
table {
border: 0;
border-collapse: collapse;
}
This would replace what you have and have the desired effects.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer / Developer/
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/Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/
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Bob Schwartz wrote:
That did it, thanks a lot.
Now if I could just figure out IE6 on my quotes.
Would this be doing it?
/* Neutralize styling */
* {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 0;
}
By removing the border margin and padding from every element, your
buttons is just a grey square. You might need to be more specific
about which elements to reset.
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Re: [WSG] Flash on top of Flash
Using flash for your navigation is fine. Just set it up so its an enhancement to a regular ol' ul/li nav rather than the only alternative. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joseph Ortenzi wrote: I agree. I thought having a main menu in Flash is not compliant with Web Standards. Why must your navigation be in Flash? On Feb 29, 2008, at 09:14, Breton Slivka wrote: On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Anthony Milner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have two flash files - 1 contains a flash menu the other contains an animation. We are trying to position them on top of each other... I don't know, I might be mistaken, but given that this is the web standards group mailing list, I thought we were supposed to discourage this sort of behavior. You could solve all kinds of problems by just not having a flash menu to begin with. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** == Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:866-301-8045 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] multiple css style sheets
I see no reason not to use multiple stylesheets other than a smaller download time. Each stylesheet should be separated only if it serves a purpose of course. For example, most of my sites currently use this formula: !-- CSS -- link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=all href=/css/global.css link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen, projection href=/css/screen.css link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen, projection href=/css/homepage.css !--[if lt IE 7] link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen, projection href=/css/ie.css ![endif]-- link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=print href=/css/print.css I could probably add a handheld stylesheet to that setup. The global stylesheet handles the global styles for all media types and performs some resets to standardize areas where browsers differ. The screen stylesheet handles the universal screen styles. The homepage stylesheet handles elements that are unique to the homepage. (or subpage if thats the case) The ie stylesheet handles box model fixes etc for ie6 and under Finally, the print stylesheet handles print display. Needless to say, one stylesheet couldn't be this flexible. As far as conflicting rules, typically the browser would render whichever rule came last, overwriting any previously set styles while inheriting those that are not affected. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael Horowitz wrote: Just inherited a site and saw pages with multiple style sheets. Is there a reason for that and how does the browser determine what to use if there is a conflict *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:866-301-8045 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
[WSG] Linux Page Test Please
Good Linux users: Can I ask you to take this page for a spin and reply off-list if you encounter a problem? http://allturf.sitesbyjoe.com/ Thanks! -- Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:866-301-8045 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] PHP includes
You don't need to add any styles to the include file. Keep in mind the php does its stuff long before any css rules get applied which happens only after the dom is loaded into the user's browser. I cannot speak for SSI as I've never used it once. Always did asp/php includes. Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael Horowitz wrote: If I am including a menu using the PHP include command but the actuual menu is an html list does the included file need to have its code including the css style sheet or will it use the style sheet of the page it is included to. Also is their a preference in web standards for using PHP includes or something like SSI? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:866-301-8045 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
[WSG] Page Rendering Test Please
Can my IE7/Opera/Linux friends please take this page for a test ride? http://www.ellicottmack.com/home/homepage Just send me a personal note if you notice a rendering issue. Thanks a bunch! -- Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:866-301-8045 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Developing for Mac Browsers
I would try to get an old cheap G3 or something on ebay, you can get them very cheaply and often with OSX installed. The rendering differences between Firefox etc will be similar, but the respective font sizes will be a little different (a little smaller on the mac). Joseph R. B. Taylor /Designer / Developer/ -- Sites by Joe, LLC /Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 Fax: (866) 301-8045 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter Mount wrote: Hi I'm tossing up whether to buy a Mac or to save my money and buy a new PC and just have Linux and Windows on it. I've read that Safari for Windows will help Web Developers without a Mac be able to develop for that. Is there a difference between Mac versions of browsers like Firefox and Safari or can I safely develop in non Mac versions and expect my web sites to behave the same on the Mac? Currently my main OS is Kubuntu but I'll soon be trialling Red Hat Desktop 5 Multi OS. Thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;fax:866-301-8045 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Javascript based ASP Form Mail script?
You're better off asking your web host about that one. ASP usually needs a 3rd party component to send email reliably. I've seen CDONTS turned off many times. My old ASP scripts use the SmartMail component which has been discontinued by the creator. If you mean ASP.NET thats another story. Thanks to things like that I switch to PHP and now life makes sense again. Joseph R. B. Taylor - Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James O'Neill wrote: Greetings all, Does anyone know of a solid and robust Javascript based ASP Form Mail script that outputs a compliant confirmation email as well? Thanx *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Jquery and/or Yahoo UI
I haven't tried Yahoo's library, but jQuery is just great. I only use it lightly (getting DOM elements, applying classes etc), but its been very nice to work with so far. No code issues. Joseph R. B. Taylor - Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Simon, jQuery won't introduce any errors automatically, so unless you tell it to do something that will generate invalid HTML or CSS it will be fine. I assume the same is true of YUI. - Andrew Ingram Hi, Anyone using jQuery (http://jquery.com/) or Yahoo UI ( http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/) ? Do they, help to, build nice Standards based apps? Am I going to see green lights* in Firefox for standards compliance, error-free CSS and Javascript...oh...and will the HTML and CSS validate? *I LOVE those little green lights. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
McLaughlin, Gail G wrote: We always ask the client if they require that the site comply with accessibility. Why not say Would you like a shitty website, or a good quality website? Well-made shouldn't be an extra feature... In fact, since its clearly cheaper and easier to make a crappy website, why don't you just mock up pages in Illustrator, save the whole thing as an image with no alt attribute, and use that instead of a real page? Thats real cheap and easy. Heck, there are people that actually do that! Most people will never know! I cannot tell anyone how to run their own business, or design a website for that matter, but I want to state for the record that anyone on this list should be doing there very best to make the best sites they can. Adding alt attributes to images and doing other minor things that make pages more adaptable to devices and more user-friendly is the right thing to do. Blind people? Accessibility is not about blind people. As a designer/developer I don't really care about blind people. I don't consider them (gasp!). I do consider PDAs, cellphones, text-only browsers, screenreaders and google. I take the responsibility upon myself to deliver a product that works on all of them. I also make no guarantees. I don't mention accessibility or other browsers, etc to the client since the aren't considered with the computing world beyond their own desktop for the most part. Those who do ask get the speech of the year and come away knowing that it's a major part of my methodology. I do it for my own satisfaction. Each site is a little better than the last and comes a little closer to being the perfectly marked-up document that it should be to properly function of all devices. Does this take longer or cost more? I'll say not. My PHP coding goes 10 times faster since I use the codeigniter framework to handle the typical BS, my javascript goes 10 time faster since I use jQuery to handle the typical BS, and I have written enough sites that I have a pretty good process going, the result being a better site put together more quickly. For some developers it will take longer and cost more. I know people that shudder to think of making a navigation bar by hand, forever stuck to dreamweaver's horribly bloated javascript rollover menu. For them its simply not an option. Joseph R. B. Taylor - Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
I'm glad to hear that so many of us are experts on law and other topics that have nothing to do with web standards whatsoever. What does this suit have to do with web standards? Well, perhaps down the road somewhere more strict governing will be put in place. Do we want the government involved with web page construction? No. Maybe this is an opportunity to point out the exact failure in the site, offer a fix, and then go through our own commerce sites to make sure we don't have any similar problems. Maybe the more entrepreneurial of us will spam store owners offering shopping cart repair services. Maybe, just maybe this will get thrown out of court and quickly forgotten. Maybe, target will fess up to being an evil corporation and explain the whole problem was the inability of the English speaking executives to clearly explain the problem to the developers in China that earn $0.15 an hour working on the site, reminding us why to hire local people. Hopefully something positive will come from it. Joseph R. B. Taylor - Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
Gary Barber wrote: Oh I agree with what is being said. But consider, for a moment. You ask do you want a good quality web site. The clients replies, quality means expensive. As long as it looks good I don't care. So the client says Why should I use you with your standards and accessibility, Cowboy Design Joe here is half the cost and looks the same, same Google ranking. Thats the true cost of Accessibility. I hope you're not saying this in fear of losing business to cowboy design! I'd tell them to call Cowboy Design then. The web is too important to cut corners before you even start. It'll be that same person calling me in a year or two saying that they hate their site. There's plenty of people all around me that build crap sites for cheap. Always will be. Joseph R. B. Taylor - Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
To add to the colorful discussion... There is certainly merit behind being able to design a site the way you want. I've written private web applications where javascript was required - cookies too. In the public sphere, its a whole different story. Yes, you can choose to visit a website, just like you can choose to visit the local library. The library is required to offer some level of accessibility to disabled visitors. A website should do the same, especially in an instance where it is designed for the general public seeking public information. On the target suit, at a glance it does seem frivolous. Blind people shopping online does seem crazy since we tend to think of the web in such visual terms. In reality, the suit is a result of target's basic refusal to change the checkout process on the site so a screenreader or other device can checkout using the shopping system. If I remember correctly there were given a year if not more to do so and still didn't with the suit being the consequence. We all know that this would not be difficult to do. Joseph R. B. Taylor - Sites by Joe, LLC Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design Phone: (609) 335-3076 Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Green wrote: I think you'll find the people of Tibet didn't build Mount Everest and weren't even able to influence its design. Target chose to design their site the way they did, and a professional designer would have known that they were excluding some people from using the website. In the face of such wilful or ignorant behaviour I believe it is necessary to legislate. Sure it's inconvenient to have to worry about people with disabilities and incur additional costs to support them, but it's a mark of a civilised country that we do. At least where I live. Steve *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Chris Wilson *Sent:* 03 October 2007 22:51 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard Or do you think that your right to 'do what the hell you like' outweighs other people's right to be treated equally? Be treated equally? They have to CHOOSE to visit the site. So, because they want (want need)to do something, others should accommodate? I want to visit the summit of mount everest... I suppose the people of tibet should install an escalator just so I can reach the top due to my less-then-perfect phisical status. Damn them for not allowing me to the summit, I'm going to sue. Idiocy. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [WSG] Web Design Test - IE Users
Thanks for the feedback everyone, the items you mention (all caps on
text, html errors on search form) are all out of my control. This
content is scraped from pages of a circa 1999 frames-based frontpage
site (yuck!) I try to clean the html best I can with some php
(preg_replace, str_replace, etc) but ultimately I have to step back in
the hopes that the parent company's site will get a cleanup (never gonna
happen).
Thanks again,
Joseph R. B. Taylor
-
Sites by Joe, LLC
Keep it Clean, Simple Elegant
(609) 335-3076
http://sitesbyjoe.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Robert O'Rourke wrote:
Joseph Taylor wrote:
Hey everyone!
I wanted some of you windows users to test out this site if you'd be
so kind on your IE browsers.
http://steveframe.sitesbyjoe.com
Please let me know if there are any layout issues you encounter
(float drops etc)
Some pages won't validate because I'm scraping the table-laden
content from the parent company's awful, though I try to clean them
up somewhat (sales and rental search).
I noticed a couple heading issues on my old win2k server, but it has
an odd resolution and things look as horrible as they possibly could...
Thanks in advance!
Very nice Mr Taylor,
One section that needs some attention is the search form, there's
about 15 errors that HTML Tidy caught that are producng some odd
effects (br /s in the legend?). Once you have that validated it
should start to look more consistent cross-browser, let us know once
you've done that. Also this little snippet will prevent the dropdown
button from overlapping the text in the options on the dropdowns:
option { padding-right: 0.5em; }
Cheers,
Rob
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email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Designer / Developer
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[WSG] Web Design Test - IE Users
Hey everyone! I wanted some of you windows users to test out this site if you'd be so kind on your IE browsers. http://steveframe.sitesbyjoe.com Please let me know if there are any layout issues you encounter (float drops etc) Some pages won't validate because I'm scraping the table-laden content from the parent company's awful, though I try to clean them up somewhat (sales and rental search). I noticed a couple heading issues on my old win2k server, but it has an odd resolution and things look as horrible as they possibly could... Thanks in advance! Joseph R. B. Taylor - Sites by Joe, LLC Keep it Clean, Simple Elegant (609) 335-3076 http://sitesbyjoe.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Designer / Developer tel;work:609-335-3076 tel;cell:609-335-3076 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://sitesbyjoe.com version:2.1 end:vcard
