Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
The response: The purpose of the inclusion of Meta Keywords is to cater for older search engines that are still using meta tags. The Meta Keywords tag allows [ClientName] to define which search terms are important to their web page. Yahoo actually uses the meta keywords tag to see if a site should be included in a subset of results. -- On 10/7/05, John Allsopp wrote: Get them to ask Hitwise to justify the recommendation, based on anything other than handwaving and superstition. I'd be interested in their response :-) I think it is safe to say that we would *all* be interested in their response, if they prepare one at all... Cheers, Derek. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:51:49 +1000 (EST), Martin Jopson wrote: The response: Thank you for finalising the info - we were all hanging out to hear what nonsense they would claim :) The thread is still closed, guys! Offlist, if you want to discuss it! warmly, Lea WSG Core Group ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
If you mean for search engines, then yes, I think you are correct. However, there may be other valid reasons for using metadata. Does anyone remember when Anil Dash (from Six Apart) beat out 2 SEO companies and won a SEO competition in 2004? http://www.dashes.com/anil/2004/07/27/optimizing_sear The best SEO is to have *relevant content* that speaks in the same language as your target audience, rather than trying to manipulate SERP's by keyword stuffing and other tricks. You may find these links useful: http://www.penmachine.com/techie/search_ranking_2004-08.html http://www.penmachine.com/2004/08/is-it-worth-optimizing-your-site-for.html http://wolfram.org/writing/howto/3.html kind regards Terrence Wood. Martin Jopson said: So, from John Derek's responses, am I correct in thinking there's no use for the Meta Keywords or Meta Description tags anymore? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Hi Martin, On 10/7/05, Martin Jopson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could anyone please clarify the situation for Meta Keywords and also Meta Description. If possible also a web resource that states clearly these issues. Others have already given a range of good responses. To add to the discussion I believe that the search engine Sensis uses the meta keywords tag, although I cannot remember where I picked up that idea. While it may not drive as much traffic to your site as Google, the amount of television advertising and content site partnering they have been doing in Australia makes them worth considering (for Australian sites) IMHO. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:30:16 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Others have already given a range of good responses. To add to the discussion I believe that the search engine Sensis uses the meta keywords tag, although I cannot remember where I picked up that idea. Yep, it seems they do - googling shows results that indicate they do. But the rest of the advice on the pages was fairly poor, so I'm not sure I would put much credence in it. While it may not drive as much traffic to your site as Google, the amount of television advertising and content site partnering they have been doing in Australia makes them worth considering (for Australian sites) IMHO. I get maybe one hit a month across all my sites sourced from Sensis - 1 hit in 1000s of visitors, so I have been unable to see them worth the time to look into :( warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
ADMIN - thread closed Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Well, I just had it pointed out to me (You're an evil man, Bert ;)) that we really haven't managed to bring this one on-topic, so I think the thread should be closed. Lea ~ oops -- WSG Core member On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 20:52:35 +1000, Lea de Groot wrote: On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:30:16 +0800, Kay Smoljak wrote: Others have already given a range of good responses. To add to the discussion I believe that the search engine Sensis uses the meta keywords tag, although I cannot remember where I picked up that idea. Yep, it seems they do - googling shows results that indicate they do. But the rest of the advice on the pages was fairly poor, so I'm not sure I would put much credence in it. While it may not drive as much traffic to your site as Google, the amount of television advertising and content site partnering they have been doing in Australia makes them worth considering (for Australian sites) IMHO. I get maybe one hit a month across all my sites sourced from Sensis - 1 hit in 1000s of visitors, so I have been unable to see them worth the time to look into :( warmly, Lea ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Just wanted to clarify this area with some references. Meta keywords - no - no search engine publically acknowdges that they refer to them. Meta descriptions - yes - see below - but DMoz is often a factor as well Meta robots - yes - see below 1. you can use robots.txt OR meta robots: [quote]Use a robots.txt file or meta tags to control how MSNBot and other web crawlers index your site. The robots.txt file tells web crawlers which files and folders it is not allowed to crawl. The Web Robots Pages provide detailed information on the robots.txt Robots Exclusion standard. This site may be available in English only.[/quote] http://search.msn.com/docs/siteowner.aspx?t=SEARCH_WEBMASTER_REF_GuidelinesforOptimizingSite.htmFORM=WGDD Yahoo: [quote] create a robots.txt file on your web site to prevent our crawler from indexing your site add a noindex meta tag to your documents [/quote] http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/ysearch/indexing/indexing-13.html Google: [quote] robots.txt is a standard document that can tell Googlebot not to download some or all information from your web server... ..To keep Googlebot from following links on your pages to other pages or documents, you'd place the following meta tag in the head of your HTML document: META NAME=Googlebot CONTENT=nofollow [/quote] http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmasters/bot.html 2. As far as metadescriptionis concerned - Meta Description is still important to MSN and Yahoo!: [quote]As the MSN Search web crawler MSNBot crawls your website, it analyzes the content on indexed web pages and generates keywords to associate with each we page. Then MSNBot extracts web page content that is highly relevant to the keywords (often sentence segments that contain keywords or information in the description meta tag) and constructs the website description displayed in search results. [/quote] http://search.msn.com/docs/siteowner.aspx?t=SEARCH_WEBMASTER_CONC_AboutYourSiteDescription.htm [quote]Pages Yahoo! Wants Included in its index:snipMetadata (including title and description) that accurately describes the contents of a web page[/quote] http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/ysearch/indexing/indexing-14.html 3. Also - Google often also often uses the ODP Dmoz description rather than the Meta Description: E.g. search Google for w3c http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=w3c W3C - The World Wide Web ConsortiumThe W3C was founded in October 1994 to lead the World Wide Web to its full potential by developing common protocols that promote its evolution and ensure ... Check the Dmoz listing: http://dmoz.org/Computers/Internet/Policy/ W3C - The World Wide Web Consortium - The World Wide Web Consortium was created to lead the World Wide Web to its full potential by developing common protocols that promote its evolution and ensure its interoperability. Now look at the meta description at http://www.w3.org/ meta name=description content=W3C's nearly 400 member organizations lead the World Wide Web to its full potential. Founded by Tim Berners-Lee, the Web's inventor. The W3C Web site hosts specifications, guidelines, software and tools. Public participation is welcome. W3C supports universal access, the semantic Web, trust, interoperability, evolvability, decentralization, and cooler multimedia. / Best Chris Cogentis Search Engine marketing Optimisation http://www.cogentis.com.au
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Plus there's the added notion that Meta Tags *in and of themselves* are a good thing to put in a page (as any librarian will tell you). Plus there's no way of knowing what future technologies can put these to good use. I agree with Richard, and this is what the Dublin Core Meta Data is all about. The idea is that metadata has intrinsic value in and of itself. While the DC idea might not be widely useful or supported right now, it's still a great idea in concept and practice. I've started using it for geographic data descriptions on my sites. Speaking of which, Paul Collins posted earlier about that today, but I haven't seen any feedback: I have recently been reading about Dublin Core meta data. I would like to know what the main advantages are of using it and how widely it is interpreted by search engines. I am having a hard time finding out the right information, could anyone point me in the correct direction or maybe give some knowledge? Any thoughts? -- Lance Willett simpledream web studio Phone: 520.954.5607 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.simpledream.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Meta Keywords?
During one of Tantek's seminars at WE05, I assumed I was the last person in the world to learn that Meta Keywords were no longer used by search engines. However, I have just received a document from a client who has been advised by a search engine optimisation specialist [hitwise] to add specific Meta Keywords to pages in their site. Could anyone please clarify the situation for Meta Keywords and also Meta Description. If possible also a web resource that states clearly these issues. Thanks Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Well, I think the answer is a yes and no. Google I don't think reads or puts any weight on the meta tags at all. It does read a couple of meta tags like the 'revisit' meta tag and a couple of others but not description or keywords. Google goes more by link popularity and keyword density in the actual content of the pages and follows the robots.txt file for its rules. Other search engines will still read those keywords and description meta tags. You can go to each of the major search engines and see exactly how they work and what they accept and dont accept on their websites. Buddy Martin Jopson wrote: During one of Tantek's seminars at WE05, I assumed I was the last person in the world to learn that Meta Keywords were no longer used by search engines. However, I have just received a document from a client who has been advised by a search engine optimisation specialist [hitwise] to add specific Meta Keywords to pages in their site. Could anyone please clarify the situation for Meta Keywords and also Meta Description. If possible also a web resource that states clearly these issues. Thanks Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Martin, However, I have just received a document from a client who has been advised by a search engine optimisation specialist [hitwise] to add specific Meta Keywords to pages in their site. Get them to ask Hitwise to justify the recommendation, based on anything other than handwaving and superstition. I'd be interested in their response :-) John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
On 10/7/05, John Allsopp wrote: Get them to ask Hitwise to justify the recommendation, based on anything other than handwaving and superstition. I'd be interested in their response :-) I think it is safe to say that we would *all* be interested in their response, if they prepare one at all... Cheers, Derek. -- Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: 613-599-9784 1-866-932-4878 (toll-free in North America) Web Development: http://www.furtherahead.com Personal:http://www.boxofchocolates.ca ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
I second that. Buddy John Allsopp wrote: Martin, However, I have just received a document from a client who has been advised by a search engine optimisation specialist [hitwise] to add specific Meta Keywords to pages in their site. Get them to ask Hitwise to justify the recommendation, based on anything other than handwaving and superstition. I'd be interested in their response :-) John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
-Original Message- From: Martin Jopson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 October 2005 2:23 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Meta Keywords? During one of Tantek's seminars at WE05, I assumed I was the last person in the world to learn that Meta Keywords were no longer used by search engines. However, I have just received a document from a client who has been advised by a search engine optimisation specialist [hitwise] to add specific Meta Keywords to pages in their site. Could anyone please clarify the situation for Meta Keywords and also Meta Description. If possible also a web resource that states clearly these issues. I would advise anybody against taking Meta Tags (description and keywords) out of their sites. Although major search engines have publicly declared that they put less emphasis on the tags, there are still search engines around that read them. Google and Yahoo never really said we don't support meta tags anymore. They just say they have implemented new ways of ranking sites. We leave the meta tags in all our websites and have had extremely good results with our rankings. Of course other factors (such as cross linking and page content) play a huge role in the ranking as well. BTW, even if search engines didn't put emphasis on the Meta tags, they still display the Meta Description in their search results (at least Google does). So if it's not for improving your ranking, at least put a meta description onto your site for the sake of informing people in a short sentence what your site is all about. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
So, from John Derek's responses, am I correct in thinking there's no use for the Meta Keywords or Meta Description tags anymore? Any web resources/ reference for this information? I'd like a bit more knowledge before questioning Hitwise. Thanks Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
On 10/7/05, Martin Jopson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, from John Derek's responses, am I correct in thinking there's no use for the Meta Keywords or Meta Description tags anymore? Any web resources/ reference for this information? I'd like a bit more knowledge before questioning Hitwise. In my experience, they still read the Description tag, but don't necessarily take it into account for ranking purposes; if the Description is present it will be included in the excerpt shown in the search result. Keywords are ignored by all the search engines that matter, due to keyword spamming by SEO folks. -- May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. -- George Carlin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
I'd also add that for semantics we should be using them - so what if search engines choose to use/not use/change they way they handle them. Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] Sent: Friday, 7 October 2005 2:59 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Meta Keywords? I would advise anybody against taking Meta Tags (description and keywords) out of their sites. Although major search engines have publicly declared that they put less emphasis on the tags, there are still search engines around that read them. Google and Yahoo never really said we don't support meta tags anymore. They just say they have implemented new ways of ranking sites. We leave the meta tags in all our websites and have had extremely good results with our rankings. Of course other factors (such as cross linking and page content) play a huge role in the ranking as well. BTW, even if search engines didn't put emphasis on the Meta tags, they still display the Meta Description in their search results (at least Google does). So if it's not for improving your ranking, at least put a meta description onto your site for the sake of informing people in a short sentence what your site is all about. ** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged information or confidential information or both. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender. ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
On 10/7/05, Martin Jopson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, from John Derek's responses, am I correct in thinking there's no use for the Meta Keywords or Meta Description tags anymore? Meta description is important! It's the one that Google uses when displaying results. You can do a quick summary of the page content in the description, or otherwise Google will show a random excerpt from the page where the search term appears. Prabhath http://nidahas.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
I'd have to agree with Andreas here. Wile for Ranking purposes they're not terribly important, at least Description is still sometimes used by Search Engines. Plus there's the added notion that Meta Tags *in and of themselves* are a good thing to put in a page (as any librarian will tell you). Plus there's no way of knowing what future technoligies can put these to good use. In saying that, of course, you'd actually have to think about making those meta tags *really* relevent and page-specific - otherwise, it's just guff. :o) R - Original Message - From: Martin Jopson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords? So, from John Derek's responses, am I correct in thinking there's no use for the Meta Keywords or Meta Description tags anymore? Any web resources/ reference for this information? I'd like a bit more knowledge before questioning Hitwise. Thanks Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
-Original Message- From: Richard Czeiger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 October 2005 3:09 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords? I'd have to agree with Andreas here. Wile for Ranking purposes they're not terribly important, at least Description is still sometimes used by Search Engines. Plus there's the added notion that Meta Tags *in and of themselves* are a good thing to put in a page (as any librarian will tell you). Plus there's no way of knowing what future technoligies can put these to good use. In saying that, of course, you'd actually have to think about making those meta tags *really* relevent and page-specific - otherwise, it's just guff. Nice expression - couldn't have put it better: guff! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
From: James Bennett In my experience, they still read the Description tag, but don't necessarily take it into account for ranking purposes; if the Description is present it will be included in the excerpt shown in the search result. That matches my experience too. -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Meta Keywords?
Derek Featherstone wrote: On 10/7/05, John Allsopp wrote: Get them to ask Hitwise to justify the recommendation, based on anything other than handwaving and superstition. I'd be interested in their response :-) I think it is safe to say that we would *all* be interested in their response, if they prepare one at all... Cheers, Derek. Well, this is a topic that brings out the emotions! Andreas and the others type faster than I do ;-) but we're all on the same page. My understanding is that Google reads the description tag, and displays it on the results page - if there isn't a tag, it displays the first 100 or so characters - but doesn't use it in the ranking calculation, which is based on page content (or reading the entrails of a goat - it depends which school of thought you subscribe to). As to Hitwise, pfft! I doubt they'll even respond. SEO (the way they do it) is just a con job IMHO Cheers Mark Harris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
