Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
Hi All,
For what it is worth I see two roads to follow.
1) create a glossary for swiss-french
2) modify the french glossary to accommodate swiss-spacing.
Following 1 has the advantage that it keeps the french glossary clean. Yet, to
follow this road
causes a problem with maintaining another glossary for a french variant. The
question then is
is the difference between french and swiss-french is that great to warrant such
a move.
Following 2 can increases maintainability, all that would be needed would be a
command like
\swissspacing@punctionuation model after:
\def\nofrench@punctuation{%
\lccode2019=\z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\! \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\? \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\‼ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\⁇ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\⁈ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\⁉ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\; \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\: \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\« \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\» \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\‹ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\› \z@
\XeTeXinterchartokenstate=0
}
This approach is modular and would allow a quick way of switching between the
two languages
If there are more sublimities one could use a command/switch like \swissfrench.
I believe route 2 is the saneness one to follow.
regards
Keith.
Am 25.09.2011 um 10:07 schrieb rhin...@postmail.ch:
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:11:55AM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
2011/9/25 Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote:
On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote:
Hi All,
When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia,
a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...).
This is normal in french typography used in France. However,
here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this
extra space.
/.../
There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French
related punctuation.
/.../
So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters,
redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to
spacing that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the
uncommented ones.
I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage
is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to
switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific
setting instead of resorting to low level commands.
I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he
no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package
to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll
the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to
learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or
cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of
developers in January 2012.
Hi All,
Thanks for replying me with these ideas. I could perhaps
do a part of the work since I will have a certain amount of time
until the end of year.
As far as I know, GIT is not very different from CVS/Subversion
(the joke about Git is that it is the answer to the question:who is the boss
?).
Where the CVS/Subversion repository should be located ? For me, the choice
of
a source control system is not a big problem: I can work with all the three.
I think effectively, that an option to the package could be a nice solution,
since it is possible that other differences occur. For instance the wording
could be sometimes different from the french spoken in France
(like the difference between American an British english).
What does imply to add an option romand (the french speaking part of
of Switzerland is often called Romandie) to polyglossia. Should I clone
the Git repository, do the modifications and hope they will be integrated
in the main stream ?
best regards,
Alain
--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
2011/9/25 Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com: On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote: On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote: Hi All, When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia, a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...). This is normal in french typography used in France. However, here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this extra space. /.../ There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French related punctuation. /.../ So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters, redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to spacing that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the uncommented ones. I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific setting instead of resorting to low level commands. I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of developers in January 2012. Mojca -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex -- Zdeněk Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:11:55AM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote: 2011/9/25 Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com: On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote: On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote: Hi All, When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia, a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...). This is normal in french typography used in France. However, here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this extra space. /.../ There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French related punctuation. /.../ So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters, redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to spacing that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the uncommented ones. I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific setting instead of resorting to low level commands. I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of developers in January 2012. Hi All, Thanks for replying me with these ideas. I could perhaps do a part of the work since I will have a certain amount of time until the end of year. As far as I know, GIT is not very different from CVS/Subversion (the joke about Git is that it is the answer to the question:who is the boss ?). Where the CVS/Subversion repository should be located ? For me, the choice of a source control system is not a big problem: I can work with all the three. I think effectively, that an option to the package could be a nice solution, since it is possible that other differences occur. For instance the wording could be sometimes different from the french spoken in France (like the difference between American an British english). What does imply to add an option romand (the french speaking part of of Switzerland is often called Romandie) to polyglossia. Should I clone the Git repository, do the modifications and hope they will be integrated in the main stream ? best regards, Alain -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
2011/9/25 rhin...@postmail.ch: On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:11:55AM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote: 2011/9/25 Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com: On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote: On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote: Hi All, When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia, a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...). This is normal in french typography used in France. However, here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this extra space. /.../ There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French related punctuation. /.../ So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters, redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to spacing that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the uncommented ones. I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific setting instead of resorting to low level commands. I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of developers in January 2012. Hi All, Thanks for replying me with these ideas. I could perhaps do a part of the work since I will have a certain amount of time until the end of year. As far as I know, GIT is not very different from CVS/Subversion (the joke about Git is that it is the answer to the question:who is the boss ?). Where the CVS/Subversion repository should be located ? For me, the choice of a source control system is not a big problem: I can work with all the three. I have an account on Sarovar and an old account on SourceForge (I hope I still remember the password). The Velthuis Devanagari project is on CVS (for years) but now I prefer subversion (I use it for private projects where I am the only developer). I think effectively, that an option to the package could be a nice solution, since it is possible that other differences occur. For instance the wording could be sometimes different from the french spoken in France (like the difference between American an British english). What does imply to add an option romand (the french speaking part of of Switzerland is often called Romandie) to polyglossia. Should I clone the Git repository, do the modifications and hope they will be integrated in the main stream ? best regards, Alain -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex -- Zdeněk Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of developers in January 2012. On the other hand, I intend to provide a XeTeX back-end for babel in short. I've made some tests and I was able to typeset a document in Russian with babel and a few additional macros. I presume I'll start working by November. Not that I like babel, but it's what most users want and what most TUGs support. Javier - http://www.tex-tipografia.com -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
2011/9/25 Javier Bezos lis...@tex-tipografia.com: I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of developers in January 2012. On the other hand, I intend to provide a XeTeX back-end for babel in short. I've made some tests and I was able to typeset a document in Russian with babel and a few additional macros. I presume I'll start working by November. Not that I like babel, but it's what most users want and what most TUGs support. I could use babel with XeLaTeX without any modification. The problem is that in non-unicode babel a lot of things is implemented via active characters. Thus if you use czech or slovak option, \cline ceases to work. If you use slovak or latin option, accent \^ is no longer available. There are a lot of other tricky clashes that can break multilingual documents where parts are written by different authors. One journal had a problem with English + French + Chinese + Arabic + a lof of math and linguistic diagrams. It took me almost a week to solve all these problems and typeset all what the authors wished. Javier - http://www.tex-tipografia.com -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex -- Zdeněk Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
Am Sun, 25 Sep 2011 12:08:33 +0200 schrieb Zdenek Wagner: On the other hand, I intend to provide a XeTeX back-end for babel in short. I've made some tests and I was able to typeset a document in Russian with babel and a few additional macros. I presume I'll start working by November. I could use babel with XeLaTeX without any modification. Well it depends a lot on the language. There is no problem with german, but e.g. the babel-ldf for russian contains font encoding changes absolutly unsuitable for xelatex. The main feature of polyglossia is that is adapts/adds more or less xetex-sensible commands to switch fonts when switching to another language which uses another script. -- Ulrike Fischer -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
El 25/09/2011 12:08, Zdenek Wagner escribió: I could use babel with XeLaTeX without any modification. The problem is that in non-unicode babel a lot of things is implemented via active characters. Thus if you use czech or slovak option, \cline ceases to work. If you use slovak or latin option, accent \^ is no longer available. The main task is a proper mapping from the LICR to Unicode. There are a lot of other tricky clashes that can break multilingual documents where parts are written by different authors. One journal had a problem with English + French + Chinese + Arabic + a lof of math and linguistic diagrams. It took me almost a week to solve all these problems and typeset all what the authors wished. Well, imagine yo can do it out of the box. Javier - http://www.tex-tipografia.com -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote:
Hi All,
When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia,
a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...).
This is normal in french typography used in France. However,
here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this
extra space.
For the Babel package, I have written few shorthands to remove
the unwanted space. Since such trick is no more available
in polyglossia, what is the best solution to remove
this extra space while keeping the others features related to
the french language.
The French punctuation spacing is implemented in Polyglossia via XeTeX's
interchartoks facility. It is defined in
/usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/tex/xelatex/polyglossia/gloss-french.ldf (on
a TeXLive distribution)
There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French related
punctuation. It is defined as follows:
\def\nofrench@punctuation{%
\lccode2019=\z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\! \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\? \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\‼ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\⁇ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\⁈ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\⁉ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\; \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\: \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\« \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\» \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\‹ \z@
\XeTeXcharclass `\› \z@
\XeTeXinterchartokenstate=0
}
So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters,
redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to spacing
that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the uncommented
ones.
If you're doing this in the preamble of your document, make sure the code is
surrounded by \makeatletter and \makeatother.
Alan
--
Alan Munn
am...@gmx.com
--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote: On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote: Hi All, When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia, a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...). This is normal in french typography used in France. However, here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this extra space. /.../ There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French related punctuation. /.../ So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters, redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to spacing that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the uncommented ones. I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific setting instead of resorting to low level commands. Mojca -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french
On Sep 24, 2011, at 8:07 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote: On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote: On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote: Hi All, When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia, a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...). This is normal in french typography used in France. However, here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this extra space. /.../ There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French related punctuation. /.../ So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters, redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to spacing that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the uncommented ones. I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific setting instead of resorting to low level commands. True, but this is how such an option would be created, no? So it might be as simple as creating a gloss-suisse.ldf modeled after gloss-french.ldf which omits the unneeded spacings as I suggested. Alan -- Alan Munn am...@gmx.com -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
