[delicious-discuss] Flock, the New Browser on the Block, integrating del.icio.us
>From the slashdot-just-needs-to-be-promoted dept.| Flock, the New Browser on the Block|| from the too-many-choices dept. || posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wednesday October 05, @17:04 (Software| | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/05/1817248This /. story references a BusinessWeek article re Flock that explains that del.icio.us (and Flickr) will be integrated into Flock. Frankly, I don't understand why. I mean, how many people use del.icio.us today vs. what's the size of Flock's target market?... And how hard is it to clone del.icio.us?...I would've thought it would've made sense for these folks to roll their own - hoping to leave del.icio.us in the dust - but ... shows how much I know, I guess. Off-topic - or maybe not, considering the impact Flock could have on the del.icio.us experience: Notwithstanding Firefox's success, it's hard for me - again, knowing as little as I know - to imagine Flock succeeding. I mean, Firefox's success does seem to suggest that incumbent browsers are at least somewhat vulnerable; but it seems to me like Firefox's development model is part of its advantage - relative to how I (not knowing) assume Flock, as a commercial entity, is going about it. I'd be curious if some of you who know more about this sort of thing than I could weigh in and help me understand all this.Tks,Matthew ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[delicious-discuss] groop.us
A few month ago we introduced - in preparation for our master thesis - a small clustering tool for del.icio.us [1][2]. Now the thesis is completed [3] and a first preview of the accompanying prototype is available at http://groop.us GROOP.US [4] is a web service to visualize your social context based on the tags you have used. It shows your areas of interest and relates people with similar interests to groups to foster the creation of a shared understanding about tags and resources. GROOP.US relies on the previously mentioned clustering tool and could not have been developed without the hundreds of del.icio.us users providing their resources and tags. A big thank you to all who used the clustering tool. Our server capabilities are low so we decided to limit the first alpha testing of GROOP.US to a small number of users. We selected 1000 people from all that have used the clustering tool so far. To see if you have been chosen look at http://groop.us/activate_form and activate your account - sorry, you have to provide your del.icio.us password once again to verify your identity. Comments are welcome, to this list or in our blog at http://groop.us/blog Marc Zacher, Kai Bielenberg [1] http://lists.del.icio.us/pipermail/discuss/2005-May/003267.html [2] http://laurie.informatik.uni-bremen.de/clusty [3] http://groop.us/blog/?p=8 [4] http://groop.us ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Fwd: [delicious-discuss] Flock, the New Browser on the Block, integrating del.icio.us
Missed reply-all. again. -- Forwarded message -- From: Jeremy Dunck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Oct 6, 2005 7:11 AM Subject: Re: [delicious-discuss] Flock, the New Browser on the Block, integrating del.icio.us To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 10/6/05, Matthew Weymar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, I don't understand why. I mean, how many people use del.icio.us today vs. what's the size of Flock's target market?... And how hard is it to clone del.icio.us?... What's Flock's target market? Perhaps it's not supposed to be a browser for everybody? ... Notwithstanding Firefox's success, it's hard for me - again, knowing as little as I know - to imagine Flock succeeding. I mean, Firefox's success does seem to suggest that incumbent browsers are at least somewhat vulnerable; but it seems to me like Firefox's development model is part of its advantage - relative to how I (not knowing) assume Flock, as a commercial entity, is going about it. Perhaps success is making the users its designed for, perhaps 1% of all users, really happy. I'm always surprised when success is equated to dominating the market. A little segmentation in the browser market will be good. Since they're using the Gecko engine, it shouldn't cause too much headache for site authors. ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Flock, the New Browser on the Block, integrating del.icio.us
I can't point at any figures indicating whether or not the browser market is maturing or fragmenting. But a common rendering engine that displays sites decently and other features made specifically for a group of users is a much better way to get your user base going. But you need to have those basic features up to scratch, always. OmniWeb was a favorite of many andhad stronger capabilites thanSaft forSafari. They even had a wonderful feature that let you type in any part of a previously-entered URL. They had vertical tabs, so I could have all 43 browser windows open at once without making a mess. They had excellent, built-in ad blocking. But they didn't have strong _javascript_ and Ajax-support, top-notch PDF-readers and so on. And back to Safari we went, with lots of plug-ins. Flock will have to be social (integrating with services),open (plug-ins, skins, apis) and special (magic mystery sauce) to succeed. But it'll need to keep the basics in order, too. Ideally it's better to thrill that 1% with your features and have them teach their friends how great it is so you get to 10%, 20% and so on. But this might be a case of designer-developer myopia. Not everyone uses delicious, not everyone is equally geek. Still, I can't wait to see how Flock plans to blow us away/ lock us in as users. - Fredrik ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[delicious-discuss] private links
I was curious if there will ever be an option to make links on del.icio.us public or private? Thanks Jeff -- mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | web: http://www.teknokool.net IM: jeffisageek (yahoo) |IM: jeffisageek (MSN) ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Tags and more tag forms
Has anyone ever looked at wists.com? It's targetted towards creating an online wishlist, but they have metatagging where you can categorize your links in the format type=tag, ex color=red or objecttype=book. You create your own metatags, they aren't prescribed. I signed up just to play with the metatagging and see if I thought it was useful. I think that the namespace thing might be a better solution in the long run though since you can have the namespace define a whole set of characteristics. I think eventually some kind of standard for metatagging will emerge when a killer app (del.icio.us enhancements?) emerges to take advantage of it... no one will be forced to adhere but they will out of the desire to use the new app. ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[delicious-discuss] count of items using tag
It would be nice, when browsing a specific tag for all users, to have a count of total items using that tag displayed. c -- Chris Lott ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Flock, the New Browser on the Block, integrating del.icio.us
Frankly, I don't understand why. I mean, how many people use del.icio.ushttp://del.icio.ustoday vs. what's the size of Flock's target market?... And how hard is it to clone del.icio.us?. http://del.icio.us?... Both not-hard and hard. Several people have cloned the functionality, but it's hard to clone positive returns to scale. I would've thought it would've made sense for these folks to roll their own - hoping to leave del.icio.us http://del.icio.us in the dust - but ... shows how much I know, I guess. Why re-invent when you can integrate? The del.icio.us codebase is an empty vessel -- the value comes from us. Starting from scratch means starting with zero value. Starting with del integration is free, and means less distraction from browser-writing, including the fact that del's server-based model requires a different set of skills than writing and shipping a browser. I share your skepticism about Flock's target of 100M users -- that is an absurd number -- but starting with an empty clone of del would leave them with *fewer* initial target users and *more* work to do, a distinctly bad set of options relative to the alternative. -c ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[delicious-discuss] Re: remote app auth
Hi, regarding remote authorization, the proposed method seems complex. I suggest the following - each user can have multiple passwords. 1) In del.icio.us remote auth settings I can add/delete URLs. 2) Adding an URL returns a new password for my user, that only works for the given URL. 3) Removing an URL revokes password, thus denying the remote application's access to my data. 4) del.icio.is keeps a log for each interaction from the remote app - I can check it and audit what the remote app is doing. 5) I give my del.icio.us username plus my new password to the remote app. Plus: The user could be able to set permissions for each new URL. Example: just read,, read/write, just access tags: X1, X2, X2..., don't access to tags: Y1, Y2..., etc. Seems more simple and intuitive for the user. Sérgio Nunes Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:13:50 -0400 From: joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [delicious-discuss] remote app auth i'd like to put together a spec for letting users authorize remote application access without giving away their actual password. here's a very preliminary idea: 1) remote webapp links to, say, del.icio.us/auth?return=http:// place.to.send.auth.key/ 2) user ends up on a page that tells him 'grant access to http:// place.to.send.auth.key for write/read/decline' 3) chooses read or write or whatever and is redirected to http:// place.to.send.auth.key/?user=xyzkey=abc and this is logged to some del.icio.us database. (or maybe this should be POST) 4) api will accept either password or the auth key thoughts? -- joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Flock, the New Browser on the Block, integrating del.icio.us
On 10/6/05, Clay Shirky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And how hard is it to clone del.icio.us?Both not-hard and hard. Several people have cloned the functionality, butit's hard to clone positive returns to scale. Right. Understood. I would've thought it would've made sense for these folks to roll their own - hoping to leave del.icio.us in the dust - but ... shows how much I know, I guess.Why re-invent when you can integrate? In a word, . When the reinventing's cheap, and the partnership's going to cost you something, why partner?... (You answer this below, of course.) The del.icio.us codebase is an emptyvessel -- the value comes from us. Starting from scratch means starting with zero value. Starting with del integration is free, Not exactly. It's just a question of control, but I think that control's worth something. I know Joshua's investors think it's worth something -- a lot, it seemed to me. and means lessdistraction from browser-writing, including the fact that del's server-basedmodel requires a different set of skills than writing and shipping abrowser.Fair enough, but it seems like del is so simple really that you could replicate it fairly readily. I share your skepticism about Flock's target of 100M users -- that is anabsurd number -- but starting with an empty clone of del would leave them with *fewer* initial target users and *more* work to do, a distinctly badset of options relative to the alternative.Yeah, I think this is the real argument to partner: It's a marketing thing. It's a way of attracting end users. They know they don't want to start from scratch so they leverage off of existing user bases - not only del, but Flickr, and presumably others as well. It seems a little conservative, but ... they have bitten off a lot, so ... who can begrudge them *one* conservative decision, smile Tks for your reply, Clay,Matthew ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Flock, the New Browser on the Block, integrating del.icio.us
On 10/7/05, Matthew Weymar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This seems to cast even more doubt on Flock. Why won't FF, e.g., be able to do whatever Flock does via extensions?... If you can take del and Flickr, etc. with you wherever you go, what's to keep you with Flock when it fails you in this way or that?... Its UI is going to have to be *awfully* good. Flock was just demonstrated here at Web 2.0. It is not stable yet but the UI looked interesting. Lots of drag-n-drop functionality. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gen/49888413/ Probably most if not all of the Flock functionality can be built by extensions and plugins to Firefox, but most users will not take the time to download and configure all of the separate pieces. We shall see who Flock targets- they have a good energy and the buzz is fairly strong. Joshua's tag panel went well I hear. I couldn't attend as I had a separate meeting. Gen http://kanai.net/weblog/ ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Re: remote app auth
There's no easy way to prevent a url from using a password or whatever, since they aren't actually objects that have actions. There's only IP addresses or authentication pairs (username, password, etc) I don't see this solution particularly different from what I propose aside from making the user do more stuff to authenticate an application. Joshua Hi, regarding remote authorization, the proposed method seems complex. I suggest the following - each user can have multiple passwords. 1) In del.icio.us remote auth settings I can add/delete URLs. 2) Adding an URL returns a new password for my user, that only works for the given URL. 3) Removing an URL revokes password, thus denying the remote application's access to my data. 4) del.icio.is keeps a log for each interaction from the remote app - I can check it and audit what the remote app is doing. 5) I give my del.icio.us username plus my new password to the remote app. Plus: The user could be able to set permissions for each new URL. Example: just read,, read/write, just access tags: X1, X2, X2..., don't access to tags: Y1, Y2..., etc. Seems more simple and intuitive for the user. Sérgio Nunes Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:13:50 -0400 From: joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [delicious-discuss] remote app auth i'd like to put together a spec for letting users authorize remote application access without giving away their actual password. here's a very preliminary idea: 1) remote webapp links to, say, del.icio.us/auth?return=http:// place.to.send.auth.key/ 2) user ends up on a page that tells him 'grant access to http:// place.to.send.auth.key for write/read/decline' 3) chooses read or write or whatever and is redirected to http:// place.to.send.auth.key/?user=xyzkey=abc and this is logged to some del.icio.us database. (or maybe this should be POST) 4) api will accept either password or the auth key thoughts? -- joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
