[abcusers] Re : Abacus 1.0.0 launch
Jack Campi wrote - This is a very good idea, but the semantics I'd need in every instance where I've wanted it would be that the *shortest* note counts. So Eric wants longest note counts, Jack wants shortest note counts, I went for highest note counts and suggested first note counts This could be tricky. This is more reliable than hoping you don't get pedal notes above the melody. This sounds more like two voices on the same staff than chords. If you insist on the first note for counting you're probably going to clash with other uses of note order within chords, e.g. the way BarFly uses it to let you specify ties or slurs to and from notes within the chord. Terrifying! But, again, it sounds more like two voices on the same staff. Does any existing software attach any significance to the order of notes in a chord? ABC2Win does too. But there, it's a bug. This doesn't seem to have any musical significance but is just to make his processing easier. I don't see why the progress of abc should be held up for the sake of one piece of software that doesn't appear to be under development anymore. Bryan Creer To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] re : Abacus 1.0.0
- I didn't managed to print scores with my HP DeskJet 520 Printer. It works OK on my Epson Stylus 440. I'll try it on other printers to check this... I can't see the point of taking up valuable space on the screen for something you aren't using all the time. But for browsing several tunes it could be usefull. Maybe if this subwindow would stay on top and doesn't disappear if we load a tune (so we could move it at a corner of the screen), then we could choose another tune and so on. (And eventually close it when we don't want it any longer with the x on the top) I think all you are asking is for Full ABC to be full screen. In fact it's for full abc not to use a subwindows (in option) : for example AbcMus allows to change in the options full edit of abc (called here raw edit) is default. But for those who prefer, it's always possible to have a more user friendly header editor (like the default editing in Abacus). but processes only the tune we want to display. (Abacus should do the same It does. ok, it's true the crash I had was for a file containing a tune with a wrong X: code (with a letter). For other crashes it was on request :) (generally when they were V: ) Don Whitener said : I wonder... I get exactly the same presentation. The application runs at full (real full) screen, covering even the task bar, and the middle restore button is grayed out and inactive. I have no other application that does this. It's possible to emulate the middle restore button if you double click on the title bar, then the application will be in a more normal window and you can resize it. An other thing strange I noticed was the scrollbar at the side of the partition area didn't follow the general scrollbars adjustement in MSwindows, I have them very thin, but this scrollbar wasn't. I would have thought most people wouldn't have it and those with less computer expertise would be put off by lots of technical jargon along the lines of If you've got this file do this but if not do that. Windows XP (Pro) includes msvbvm60.dll as standard. I'd *guess* that it comes along with 2K and ME as well I've them too but I run only MSwin98, I've certainly installed an other program with this file in standard. In fact many people do install upgrades for M$ for VB support, DirectX etc., or they install many programs in general, so most of those libraries a easily available. You could ask the users here who tried your program to read the file St6unst.log (you know what ? they can even open it with Abacus !) to check if they already had some of the dll. If you propose different packages -- it's just an advice --, you could prevent people to look for an other abc application if they think yours is too heavy to download. ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Bryan Creer : I've gone for highest note prevails in the counting of the times so you can do things like - X:1 T:The Cotillion C:Trad (Bosham Band) M:4/4 L:1/8 K:G [G4D4][d4B,4]|[B2D4]AB [G2B,4]AB|[c2E4]B2[A2D4]G2|[FD4]GAF [D3A,3]D| I've seen that Skink happily supports this notation too. (and multiple undo, I've just noticed that) I hope more and more programs will be able to handle this, and maybe the standard could allow it too. Perhaps it should be by length of the first note in the chord. Jack Campin said : This is a very good idea, but the semantics I'd need in every instance where I've wanted it would be that the *shortest* note counts. This is more reliable than hoping you don't get pedal notes above the melody. I've thought to that too, in fact I find it logical to use a tie before a new barline instead of having notation like that : cd[C4e2]d2[c2A,4] | [A,2d]e[B,4f2]e2[d2G,4] etc. Here is an example : (I've just realized that my notation is incorrect, I should have begun with cd | [C4e2] etc. to avoid the ties and to be on the correct strong beat. This tune was one of the first I've transcribed. Nevertheless it's just an example to illustrate the idea of this [A4A2] notation) X:4 T:Rapunsel C:Kari Rueslåtten D:Demo Recordings O:Norge Z:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://anamnese.fr.st M:4/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4=100 K:Eb cd[C4e2]d2[c2A,2-] | [A,2d]e[B,4f2]e2[d2G,2-] |\ [G,2c]d[C4e2]d2[A,2c2] | [G,2=B]c [G,2B2][C4c4] | /.../ In an other tunes, I was really stuck because I had already 3 voices, it was a really long tune, and I didn't want to had a 4th voice full of rests just to add some extra notes in the last mesure, so I think there is a real need for such a notation... In guitar it's often there is a pedal note (or a chord) whereas there is a melody line above, and to have only a voice is more logical in a certain way. ___ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en français ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Bryan Creer : I've gone for highest note prevails in the counting of the times so you can do things like - X:1 T:The Cotillion C:Trad (Bosham Band) M:4/4 L:1/8 K:G [G4D4][d4B,4]|[B2D4]AB [G2B,4]AB|[c2E4]B2[A2D4]G2|[FD4]GAF [D3A,3]D| The trouble with this is that there are an awful lot of difficult cases to deal with. BarFly handles chords with notes of unequal length by padding out the shorter notes with rests when playing, so it's longest note prevails. The chord gets drawn on a single stem though, so if you have an eighth and a sixteenth in the same chord the result looks like two sixteenths, as they're both drawn on a stem with two tails. The way to deal with this, I suppose, is to draw two separate notes with tails in opposite directions, but then what do you do if there is more than two notes in the chord? I can see both advantages and disadvantages in doing it other ways, but no clear best solution. On the whole, I'd prefer it if people either used as many voices as necessary to represent the music, or used ties, i.e. [B2D2-]D2 instead of [B2D4]. Using unequal notes in chords just leads to too many ambiguities. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Re : suggestions for [A4A2] notation
Phil Taylor wrote - BarFly handles chords with notes of unequal length by padding out the shorter notes with rests when playing, so it's longest note prevails. But Jack Campin (a BarFly user) had said - but the semantics I'd need in every instance where I've wanted it would be that the *shortest* note counts. PT - The chord gets drawn on a single stem though, so if you have an eighth and a sixteenth in the same chord the result looks like two sixteenths, as they're both drawn on a stem with two tails. Not what the writer asked for. The way to deal with this, I suppose, is to draw two separate notes with tails in opposite directions, but then what do you do if there is more than two notes in the chord? That's what Abacus does and having just had a play with it, seems to handle it fairly well. If you have a sandwhich (middle note shorter or longer than top and bottom) and all notes are a quarter or less it gets in a bit of a twist but how often does that get done? (And how would conventional notation deal with it?) On the whole, I'd prefer it if people either used as many voices as necessary to represent the music, but since there's no agreement on how to implement voices or used ties, i.e. [B2D2-]D2 instead of [B2D4]. which would sound the same but look different when converted to notation. Using unequal notes in chords just leads to too many ambiguities. Noteworthy Composer does it and I'm basically cribbing what it does. Does anybody know what other packages do? Bryan Creer To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Re : Abacus 1.0.0 launch
Wil Macaulay wrote - BTW, Abacus worked pretty well for me, except that it crashed when I tried to change instruments (WinNT wkstation 4.0) running as a non-admin user. Would this be Runtime error 70? This seems to happen on every version of Windows except 98. I think I've fixed it but I don't have any means to test it until I can get access to a friend's machine in a few days. (Or stop being so tight fisted and go out and get XP.) Also, I found the 'double open' a little confusing at first, I'd rather see 'open' as file open and a different menu selection to pick a tune from an already open file. Yes, a number of people have found it a bit strange. I'm looking at rearranging it along those lines. Bryan Creer To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re : Abacus 1.0.0
I can't see the point of taking up valuable space on the screen for something you aren't using all the time. But for browsing several tunes it could be usefull. Maybe if this subwindow would stay on top and doesn't disappear if we load a tune (so we could move it at a corner of the screen), then we could choose another tune and so on. BarFly has a serious, fundamental, far-too-deeply-wired-in-to-change design mistake here, which you need to avoid repeating. It has two display modes, applied to open files: one allocates almost all the window to edit the ABC, much like any text editor. The other one splits the window into three panels; a staff notation display at the top, two panels under it showing the ABC source, and a list of X: field numbers and titles for all the tunes in the file. You can use the list to navigate the file (handy for large files); the source panel has the same functionality as when in single-pane mode. This is an infuriating waste of screen space. I normally use a very large monitor (21 greyscale) and even with that I find I don't have enough. I want to be able to see an entire A4 page of staff notation actual-size, and because of BarFly's multi-pane setup I can't, even on that monster. I think the Apple Cinema Display is the only screen that would allow it. (Where it gets silliest is with a multi-monitor setup: small screen for source, big one for staff notation - but the program won't let me). A recent change to BarFly creates the same problem in the lateral dimension: the panels used to be stacked vertically, but now the source and index panels are side by side, which makes very wide ABC source (like a lot of mine) impossible to view or edit in split- screen mode, particularly since linewrap scrambles alignment between lines and there's no unwrapped display option with horizontal scroll. And I would *hate* it if anything decided to float on top of either source or staff notation, getting in the way of reading and editing. The way to do this is with separate windows that can be shuffled like any others in the user interface. The mail program Eudora (at least for the Mac - I presume the PC version is basically similar) gets this right: the list of messages in a folder is in one window, and when you open a message from the list it's in a separate window. There are standard ways to shuffle windows depthwise in the Mac user interface: a Windows menu in the main menu bar for the application is the most common. Everybody understands how this works. Currently, if I click on the Window menu for Eudora, I get four items: a Send to Back command (with the keyboard shortcut displayed beside it), the addressee of this message (displayed in italic to indicate the message is open for writing), the sender of the other message I have open (the one I'm replying to), and the ABC folder. It lets you have any number of folders open, any number of messages within each folder, and edit any number of messages or text files at once. For most purposes that interface is a lot faster, more intuitive and more standard than the one BarFly provides. BarFly's split-screen model has also wasted hundreds of sheets of paper for me. The print command is mode-dependent: in split-screen mode it prints the contents of the staff notation panel only, in text mode it prints the source. Particularly with a single-tune file, it is far too easy to assume you'll always get staff-notation printout if you just select Print (printing ABC source is a rare operation for most people). If there were separate windows for each kind of display, the basic Mac model where Print prints your current window would operate. (And would allow direct printing of the tune list, which needs an intermediate step at present as there's no place to put it in the user interface). Pretty much every other application that offers alternative views on a single file does it by putting each view in a separate moveable window: spreadsheets use separate windows for charts, browsers use separate windows for displaying HTML source, databases offer list and form views. The only genre I can think of where single-window split-pane is the norm, and for good reason, is file comparison utilities. === http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
