Irwin Oppenheim wrote:
or perhaps better, do not allow a-g and A-G as body fields.
Alas, they are in the standard.
No, they are not. E: is in the standard, and I have *suggested* in my BNF
that they should be allowed in the tune too. This is because if you write
a tune set as one abc tune, or
Hello,
I've been unable to find ABC files with the much-talked-about bang (!) for
breaking lines. Could any good soul send me some examples? It's for
extending abcpp to deal with this beast.
Thank you,
Guido =8-)
--
Guido Gonzato, Ph.D. guido . gonzato at univr . it - Linux System
Buddha Buck wrote:
T.M. Sommers wrote:
henrik wrote:
There is one serious problem with changing the BNF spec to literal
strings
being case sensitive - places where we don't want case sensitiveness
become horribly complicated! E.g. dor dorian DOR Dor Dorian etc
should all
be allowed, but the
I. Oppenheim wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, T.M. Sommers wrote:
These are not problems with lex and yacc specifically; any program
parsing abc will have to face them. They are ambiguities, or potential
ambiguities, in the language itself.
In the first case above, there should be no problem: the
Wil Macaulay wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, you can also embed L:, M:, and K: in the tune
proper, and I've seen N: and
I: as well.
But they can't be mistaken for notes.
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, T.M. Sommers wrote:
Wil Macaulay wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, you can also embed L:, M:, and K: in the tune
proper, and I've seen N: and
I: as well.
But they can't be mistaken for notes.
Yes, they can, since H-Z can be redefined.
Irwin
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, henrik wrote:
But since the redefinable symbols H-Z are also
allowed in the tune, all in-tune fields cause the same problem, actually.
No special case for A-G.
It would be better to deprecate the \n_: style header
fields in the standard, and to advice to use only the
[_:]
Guido said -
I've been unable to find ABC files with the much-talked-about bang (!) for
breaking lines. Could any good soul send me some examples? It's for
extending abcpp to deal with this beast.
Well here's one for a start -
X: 1
T:Black Boy. ASH.01
M:2/4
L:1/8
Q:200
S:Harrison Wall
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Phil Taylor wrote:
I'm told that recent versions of abcm2ps use the
operator to set the time point back to the beginning
of a bar so that an additional layer of notes can be
added. This sounds like a good idea, but I haven't
seen any detailed description of how it
Bryan Creer wrote:
For more of the same, go to the Village Music Prolect site at -
http://www.performance.salford.ac.uk/research/vmp/Index.htm
and click on The Manuscript Room.
That's a classic example of everything we don't like about abc2win.
The VMP files contain not only bangs, but
It seems now that abcm2ps now also supports the !
kludge, so this could be a good starting point for the
ABC parser library.
Quoting from the abcm2ps change log:
Version 3.6.4 - 03/07/06
Accept '!' as new line inside a music line (thanks to
John Chambers).
Groeten,
Irwin Oppenheim
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Phil Taylor wrote:
That's a classic example of everything we don't like about abc2win.
The VMP files contain not only bangs, but every garbage variant
of abc you can think of, and consequently are unusable to any other
program unless you do a considerable amount of editing
From: henrik [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The case of a tune line beginning E:| is a problem, of course, but
a minor
one. This could really only be caused by the line-break daemon
when
e-mailing tunes. And it is easily discovered when proof-reading or
proof-listening the tune. Most programs warn about
Phil Taylor wrote -
I'm told that recent versions of abcm2ps use the
operator to set the time point back to the beginning
of a bar so that an additional layer of notes can be
added. This sounds like a good idea, but I haven't
seen any detailed description of how it works.
(and Irwin gave
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, David Webber wrote:
Could this not be entirely legal with the E (corresponding with the
L: setting) occupying an entire bar?
And what about:
A B C D\
E:|
Irwin
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Phil Taylor wrote -
That's a classic example of everything we don't like about abc2win.
The VMP files contain not only bangs, but every garbage variant
of abc you can think of, and consequently are unusable to any other
program unless you do a considerable amount of editing first. It's
such
Bryan Creer wrote about the symbol:
Did anyone outside the abcm2ps community know
about this until now. If another developer had started using
for their pet idea we'd have the same sort of conflict.
It was discussed on this list before it was implemented in abcm2ps. I
remember well having
Bryan Creer wrote:
For more of the same, go to the Village Music Prolect site at -
http://www.performance.salford.ac.uk/research/vmp/Index.htm
and click on The Manuscript Room.
Phil Taylor replied:
That's a classic example of everything we don't like about abc2win.
The VMP files contain
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Did anyone outside the abcm2ps community know about
this until now. If another developer had started
using for their pet idea we'd have the same sort of
conflict.
This idea was proposed by Taral on this list on
Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:43:51 -0700.
Henrik Norbeck wrote -
Bryan Creer wrote about the symbol:
Did anyone outside the abcm2ps community know
about this until now. If another developer had started using
for their pet idea we'd have the same sort of conflict.
It was discussed on this list before it was implemented in abcm2ps.
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, henrik wrote:
Of course, the thought occurred to me too after I had sent the message.
Still, I think it should be parsed as an E: field, because the error is so
easily spotted by the user, and you only have to insert a space to correct
it, e.g.
E: |
or E :|
Anyway, the
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does every new developer have to trawl through the
entire abcusers' archive and the documentation of all
83 programmes mentioned on Frank Nordberg's list to
find out if a symbol has been used?
That's why Guido is now writing an uptodate standard.
| John, in your tune finder, are all the tunes present in all the
| formats?
No, they're only present in the abc format. All the other
formats are generated on the fly.
| When I'm looking for a tune, I'll click on one of the ABC's at random.
| Sometimes I get the tune, and sometimes I get a
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]
se, henrik [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
I wrote:
The case of a tune line beginning E:| is a problem
This could really only be caused by the line-break daemon
David Webber replied:
Could this not be entirely legal with the E (corresponding with the
L: setting)
Irwin Oppenheim wrote -
This idea was proposed by Taral on this list on
Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:43:51 -0700.
It was found to be a good idea, and has been adopted by
abcm2ps and maybe some other programs as well.
A lot of ideas are proposed on this list and discussed at great length. It
is often
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Where does this bang thing come from? ! was always called shriek
when I were a lad.
Yes, it's a new one to me too. I always knew it as thwack-tung
although I've come across shriek before.
But ! is even easier to write than 'bang'...
Bryan Creer wrote:
Does every new developer have to trawl through the entire abcusers'
archive and the documentation of all 83 programmes mentioned on Frank
Nordberg's list to find out if a symbol has been used?
You've got a good point there, Bryan. I too had forgotten about the
until I
I. Oppenheim writes:
| On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
|
| An hour later, someone else's
| request handles the job of purging the old files.
|
| Why don't you use a cron job for that?
Because it doesn't always work. Over the years that the
Tune Finder has existed, the MIT
I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I do not know whether Lex and Yacc are the proper tools
to deal with ABC.
I don't know about *the* proper tools, I think they're perfectly
appropriate tools for handling ABC. As has already been pointed out,
all of the problems you mention will have to
Bryan Creer wrote:
| Phil Taylor wrote -
| (and Irwin gave him the details.)
|
| This sounds like a really neat idea but isn't it the sort of thing that leads
| to the ! and !! debacle. Did anyone outside the abcm2ps community know
| about this until now. If another developer had started
I. Oppenheim writes:
|
| And what about:
|
| A B C D\
| E:|
Yup. But we have had a discussion of what should decide this one:
There is some confusion over just what is the next line for the
purposes of a final \. Some abc software tries to find the next line
of the same type. This turns
henrik comments:
| Bryan Creer wrote:
|and click on The Manuscript Room.
|
| Phil Taylor replied:
| That's a classic example of everything we don't like about abc2win.
|
| On the contrary, I think these tunes are excellent test examples for abc
| programs, because they contain examples of
Guido, can we update the standard to reflect the
simple continuation rule defined by John below?
Note that according to the standard as it is currently
defined, the second line in my example would be
interpreted as a header, and not as a note. This is
very illogical and confusing. We need to get
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote:
Er, what's an E: field? The draft 1.7.6 knows nothing of E.
Good point! It still appeared in V1.6, and apparently
it has rightfully been removed from V1.7.6.
Groeten,
Irwin Oppenheim
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~~*
Chazzanut Online:
Does abc have a separate way of notating acciaccaturas (the slashed
grace note) as opposed to the appoggiatura (unslashed)?
Bernard Hill
Braeburn Software
Author of Music Publisher system
Music Software written by musicians for musicians
http://www.braeburn.co.uk
Selkirk, Scotland
To
I've never seen the K:HP or K:Hp implemented. Has anyone else?
(That's Highland Bagpipe: HP=no key sig but an implied key of 2 sharps,
Hp=key sig of 2 sharps + 1 natural and both force stems downwards for
the tune).
Bernard Hill
Braeburn Software
Author of Music Publisher system
Music Software
I've come across this lately:
(excerpt)
M:4/4
2e2 e3f|e2(G2 G2)Bc|
d2f2 g2fg|e6 (3efg|\
a2a2 a3a|g2(B2 B2)Bc|d2dd c(B B2)\
What's the meaning of the parentheses when there is no number? It
doesn't seem to be a shortcut for (2 - or is it? Play 2 in the time of
2? g
Bernard Hill
Braeburn
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], I. Oppenheim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote:
Er, what's an E: field? The draft 1.7.6 knows nothing of E.
Good point! It still appeared in V1.6, and apparently
it has rightfully been removed from V1.7.6.
So satisfy my curiosity.
Bernard Hill writes:
| I've never seen the K:HP or K:Hp implemented. Has anyone else?
|
| (That's Highland Bagpipe: HP=no key sig but an implied key of 2 sharps,
| Hp=key sig of 2 sharps + 1 natural and both force stems downwards for
| the tune).
Yeah; abc2ps (and probably any clone) implements
Bernard Hill wrote:
I've never seen the K:HP or K:Hp implemented. Has anyone else?
(That's Highland Bagpipe: HP=no key sig but an implied key of 2 sharps,
Hp=key sig of 2 sharps + 1 natural and both force stems downwards for
the tune).
Bernard Hill
Braeburn Software
Author of Music
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
| Why don't you use a cron job for that?
Because it doesn't always work.
Then what about this:
#!/bin/sh
# Will run once an hour and remove
# all the temporary files older than
# an hour in a given directory.
# Provided as-is by Irwin Oppenheim.
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote:
M:4/4
2e2 e3f|e2(G2 G2)Bc|
What's the meaning of the parentheses when there is no number? It
doesn't seem to be a shortcut for (2 - or is it? Play 2 in the time of
2? g
Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes.
Irwin
To
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote:
Er, what's an E: field? The draft 1.7.6 knows nothing of E.
Good point! It still appeared in V1.6, and apparently
it has rightfully been removed from V1.7.6.
So satisfy my curiosity. What was it??
I probably wasn't born yet when this header was
From: I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
M:4/4
2e2 e3f|e2(G2 G2)Bc|
What's the meaning of the parentheses when there is no number? It
doesn't seem to be a shortcut for (2 - or is it? Play 2 in the
time of
2? g
Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes.
But the notes are
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
K:Hp has always been one of my favorite examples of the usefulness of
advisory accidentals in a key signature. Without the =g in the
signature, there's a very real risk that musicians will quickly
figure out that a tune is in A, and will
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, DottieB wrote:
M:4/4
2e2 e3f|e2(G2 G2)Bc|
Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes.
But the notes are the same!
If you sight-read music in 4/4, it's easier to follow
the music if the note that falls on the third beat is
always notated separately.
The
From: I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you sight-read music in 4/4, it's easier to follow
the music if the note that falls on the third beat is
always notated separately.
Good point!
Dottie B
abc2win user :-)
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 06:40:14PM +0200, I. Oppenheim wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
K:Hp has always been one of my favorite examples of the usefulness of
advisory accidentals in a key signature. Without the =g in the
signature, there's a very real risk that
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bob Archer wrote:
If anyone's interested I made a start on yacc and lex
(actually flex and bison) parsers for abc. I'll
happily email them to anyone who wants them.
Bert Van Vreckem wrote:
I think these problems will make clear why it would
be VERY useful to create a
Hello,I have a question regarding lyrics in ABC-notation.There is
no problem with W: lines, but I can't get the w: lines to work.The program
says: "Slurs starts and ends on the same note at position [number] in the
music."What do I do wrong? And what should I do to make it work?(I use
I. Oppenheim writes:
| On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
| K:Hp has always been one of my favorite examples of the usefulness of
| advisory accidentals in a key signature. Without the =g in the
| signature, there's a very real risk that musicians will quickly
| figure out
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote:
Er, what's an E: field? The draft 1.7.6 knows nothing of E.
It was used in abc2mtex in order to set the note-spacing for
musicTeX. When musicTeX was replaced by musiXTeX---a much improved
version which has a built-in note-spacing algorithm---it
David Webber wrote:
As I understand it
|1starts a first time bat
:|2 obviously ends the 1st time bar and starts the 2nd.
How do I tell where the 2nd time bar bracket ends if it is not the
end of the piece?
What I do in BarFly is to accept any of the special bar line symbols
as a
Richard Blixt wrote:
I have a question regarding lyrics in ABC-notation.
There is no problem with W: lines, but I can't get the w: lines to work.
The program says: Slurs starts and ends on the same note at position
[number] in the music.
What do I do wrong? And what should I do to make it work?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Walsh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Bernard Hill wrote:
Er, what's an E: field? The draft 1.7.6 knows nothing of E.
It was used in abc2mtex in order to set the note-spacing for
musicTeX. When musicTeX was replaced by musiXTeX---a much
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Webber
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
As I understand it
|1starts a first time bat
:|2 obviously ends the 1st time bar and starts the 2nd.
How do I tell where the 2nd time bar bracket ends if it is not the
end of the piece?
Conventionally it goes for one
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Chambers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
David Webber writes:
| As I understand it
|
| |1starts a first time bat
| :|2 obviously ends the 1st time bar and starts the 2nd.
|
| How do I tell where the 2nd time bar bracket ends if it is not the
| end of the piece?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Phil Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Bernard Hill wrote:
Er, what's an E: field? The draft 1.7.6 knows nothing of E.
The 1.6 standard says it's Elemskip. No, I don't know either.
I don't think it's meaningful anywhere except in abc2mtex.
Come to think of it,
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
The Scottish highland pipes are highly diatonic, and have
the scale G A B ^c d e f g a. These are the only notes they
play with any accuracy. The highland pipe music thus uses
the keys of D major and A mixolyian primarily (and also B
minor and E
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, David Webber wrote:
As I understand it
|1starts a first time bat
|1 or |[1 or | [1 is first repeat ending.
:|2 obviously ends the 1st time bar and starts the 2nd.
:|2 or :|[2 or :| [2 is second repeat ending.
How do I tell where the 2nd time bar bracket ends if
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], I. Oppenheim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
The Scottish highland pipes are highly diatonic, and have
the scale G A B ^c d e f g a. These are the only notes they
play with any accuracy. The highland pipe music thus uses
the
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], I. Oppenheim
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
A tune with different endings for the first and second
repeats has the general form:
|: common body of tune
|1 first ending :|2 second ending ||
Many users are sloppy and won't write the |: and the
|| so don't rely on it.
Bernard Hill writes:
| In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Chambers
|
| I opened my copy of Scots Guards, flipped a few pages, and
| on page 15 I found this bar in The Inverness Gathering that
| (with L:1/16) could be written:
|
| ... |[1 {a}G2{d}G{e}G][2 d{e}G{gGd}G2] {gBd}B2{g}A{d}G | ...
|
|
I. Oppenheim writes:
| On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote:
|
| The Scottish highland pipes are highly diatonic, and have
| the scale G A B ^c d e f g a. These are the only notes they
| play with any accuracy. The highland pipe music thus uses
| the keys of D major and A mixolyian
I did some work with flex++ and bison to produce a basic lexer/parser for
abc, along with
some c++ classes. I stopped that development once I started using javacc
(a recursive
descent compiler-compiler) for Java, which gave me a lot more useful tools
for the job.
A particular problem that
I. Oppenheim writes:
So it's a microtonal instrument! Someone wrote that the
HP plays all notes half a note higher than notated. Did
I understand that correctly?
Microtonal? Naah---it just plays the bagpipe scale.
More history: around the turn of the century, the keynote of
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wil Why isn't anybody else using Java?
Have you tried convincing people without a fast net connection to
download it?
If they force Microsoft to install it, probably everybody will start
using it.
--
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ,
Guido,
All of the tunes (hundreds) in my private collection use |!(newline) as the
line terminator.
Attached are a few examples. I've never heard of using ! in the middle of a
line as a terminator and think that we should deprecate that usage.
-John
- Original Message -
From: Guido
It seems that over the years a lot of ideas have been informally discussed
on the list, with the usual amount of agreement and disagreement, and then
the energy of the discussion dies out and there's no assertive decision one
way or the other.
Perhaps with the new leadership we need a semi-formal
From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What I do in BarFly is to accept any of the special bar line
symbols
as a terminator - || :| :: |: |] [|
I thought that might be an option.
Actually, I suspect that :| and :: are wrong, as they would imply
that
the tune goes back for a third repeat, but
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Wil Macaulay wrote:
In other words, if I want tune 57, but tunes 10, 45,
51 are broken, don't make me fix everything previous
just to get tune 57. I found it reasonably
straightforward to implement exception handling in
Skink using javacc that let me do that, but not in
Wil Macaulay writes:
|
| Why isn't anybody else using Java?
Because I usually can't make it work. This may well be
because I'm not smart enough to install it right, as other
java users usually say. So I use languages (like perl or
tcl or python) that work for a dummy like me.
The basic
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Laura Conrad wrote:
If they force Microsoft to install it, probably everybody will start
using it.
Sun recently revoked Microsofts license to distribute
Java with new copies of Windows/Internet Explorer.
Java is installed on most Unix computers that I use,
but nevertheless
I. Oppenheim wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Wil Macaulay wrote:
In other words, if I want tune 57, but tunes 10, 45,
51 are broken, don't make me fix everything previous
just to get tune 57. I found it reasonably
straightforward to implement exception handling in
Skink using
From: I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That is to say that HPs cannot play together?
They can and do. But you have to remember that they are primarily
weapons of war rather than musical instruments - designed to scare
the hell out of the audience (who are usually the opposing army).
gdr
Laura Conrad writes:
| Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
|
| Wil Why isn't anybody else using Java?
|
| Have you tried convincing people without a fast net connection to
| download it?
|
| If they force Microsoft to install it, probably everybody will start
| using it.
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wil I disagree, but maybe I have a different idea of 'realistic
Wil size'. I'd be interested to see what your opinion would be
Wil of Skink.
I like Skink a lot, but I have yet to convince any of my friends to
install it. It seems like
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Wil Macaulay wrote:
Good point. When using Flex/Bison to parse one tune
out of an ABC file, it's probably easier to manually
scan for an apropriate X: header in the input before
starting the Bison parser.
in other words, do much of the parsing work twice ...
No, that's
David Webber writes:
| From: I. Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|
| That is to say that HPs cannot play together?
|
| They can and do. But you have to remember that they are primarily
| weapons of war rather than musical instruments - designed to scare
| the hell out of the audience (who are
From: Laura Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wil Why isn't anybody else using Java?
Have you tried convincing people without a fast net connection to
download it?
The runtime or the SDK? If you mean the runtime, I can assure you that I
A while ago, an internal memo by some SUN engeneers got
leaked, which describes the most serious problems of
the Java environment:
This document details the difficulties that keep our
Solaris Java implementation from being practical for
the development of common software applications. It
I've been unable to find ABC files with the much-talked-about
bang (!) for breaking lines. Could any good soul send me some
examples? It's for extending abcpp to deal with this beast.
Here's another one using it the way I want to. The point of
reproducing the original linebreaks isn't just
M:4/4
|e2(G2 G2)Bc|
Parentheses without a number are used to slur notes.
But the notes are the same!
If you sight-read music in 4/4, it's easier to follow the music if
the note that falls on the third beat is always notated separately.
The above example should really have been notated as
| I've never seen the K:HP or K:Hp implemented. Has anyone else?
| (That's Highland Bagpipe: HP=no key sig but an implied key of 2 sharps,
| Hp=key sig of 2 sharps + 1 natural and both force stems downwards for
| the tune).
Yeah; abc2ps (and probably any clone) implements it fully.
K:Hp has
Because
1) industry concensus seems to be that its for the server side, not
client side.
2) it's massive for even simple apps
3) regardless of how it tries to be otherwise, it is still encumbered
as being a
statically-typed oop language (like C++, they missed the point of
oop-- messages)
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