Re: [apple-crop] Weed Flamer
Just a note from the OMRI listing of Axxe: When used as an herbicide may only be used for farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops, which implies it's not okay for weed control in apples. Alldown, Avenger, and other nonsynthetic herbicides are okay if cultural practices, preventive, mechanical and physical methods are insufficient. Chris On 6/5/2015 10:04 AM, Brian Heatherington wrote: I've used flame weeders in several capacities, including under apples. It's a slow process and potentially dangerous as the cambium of high density rootstocks is VERY sensitive to even brief instances of high heat. I managed to damage and even kill a few 3-4 year old M9's when dry grasses ignited too close to the trunk. On older trees or larger rootstocks it might not be a problem, but use with extreme caution around trunks. Unless you're certified organic, I would go with tree guards (white latex paint once they outgrow the guards) and sprays of gramoxone plus solicam by tractor boom, if you understand the caution required when using gramoxone. Glyphosate with a hand wand would be as slow as the flame weeder but much longer lasting, but then you need to watch for sucker contact, especially on Bud 9. I personally wouldn't consider the drive by weed dragon unless I was organic and had no other options. Axxe is an OMRI certified version of Scythe, which can be fairly effective as a burndown agent if applied late morning on a hot, sunny day. It's labeled for root suckers as well. Brian Heatherington Beech Creek Farms and Orchards 2011 Georgia Highway 120 Tallapoosa, GA 30176 On 6/1/2015 9:21 PM, Matt Pellerin wrote: I am interested in the concept of using a weed flamer as a burndown option in my apple orchard. Has anyone had experience using these with fruit trees? What would be the pros/cons? Thanks, -- Matthew Pellerin Agricultural Manager Treworgy Family Orchards 3876 Union St Levant, ME 04456 www.treworgyorchards.com http://www.treworgyorchards.com 207-884-8354 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -- Brian Heatherington Beech Creek Farms and Orchards 2011 Georgia Highway 120 Tallapoosa, GA 30176 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Weed Flamer
I used a flamer just last week… on a pre-plant vegetable/small grain research project. 8 foot wide behind the tractor. Method is called a stale seed bed. Have seen several fruit tree flamers in use in North Central Washington in the 1990s. My recollections: All were one big nozzle mounted on the front of the tractor with a trailered propane tank. All the tractors had melted front end plastic body parts, not from escaped fires but from prolonged heat. The flamers wouldn’t damage plastic irrigation components at all but would melt plastic tree guards. The flamers worked excellent on broadleaf weeds, annual grasses so-so, perennial grasses barely. After a couple years of use the in row vegetation evolved into 100% perennial grasses, in the case here, quack grass. Organic growers had to resort to in row tillage eventually. I personally could see using a flamer in combination with tillage as an viable in row weed control alternative. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David A. Rosenberger Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 8:02 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Weed Flamer I’ve never used a flame weeder, but I’ve been on a number of tours where they were either demonstrated or discussed. Folks who have actually worked with them are probably either retired or too busy to comment, so I’ve summarized my recollections from those tours below. If my memory is faulty, then hopefully someone submit corrections and some additional info. 1. Flame weeders seem to work well only on very small weeds/grasses (e.g., up to 3-6 inches tall) and therefore the flaming must be done frequently (about every 2 or 3 weeks?) in warm wet climates if no herbicides are used to inhibit seed germination. 2. As I recall, one group indicated that flame weeders actually work best if there is a bit of dew or moisture on the weeds: the flames heated the surface water to destroy the plants. Although the weeds didn’t look “burned” after the flamer passed, they were actually “cooked” and died rapidly thereafter. 3. At one very large apple and cherry operation in WA state where a significant portion of the acreage committed to organic production, the farm manager told our tour group that flame weeding “involved a significant learning curve.” In their case, as I recall, the learning curve included incineration of several tractors when flames got out of control. Seems that would be less likely under eastern conditions where we are unlikely to accumulate a lot of dry debris under trees, but then anything is possible. 4. Finally one warning that my Pennsylvania Dutch grandmother gave to me and my cousins when we were small: Boys who play with fire will wet their beds! Dave Rosenberger, Plant Pathologist, Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060 On Monday, June 1, 2015, Matt Pellerin m...@treworgyorchards.commailto:m...@treworgyorchards.com wrote: I am interested in the concept of using a weed flamer as a burndown option in my apple orchard. Has anyone had experience using these with fruit trees? What would be the pros/cons? Thanks, -- Matthew Pellerin Agricultural Manager Treworgy Family Orchards 3876 Union St Levant, ME 04456 www.treworgyorchards.comhttp://www.treworgyorchards.com/ 207-884-8354 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Weed Flamer
First time ever replied to anything on this forum, so not sure if I have the process down right? Nuff of dat. On the flame weeder, was wondering if the unusual odors of the propane and burn't vegetation would discourage voles from setting up house? Have heard that petroleum odor tends to get them to move on, messes with their smellers I guess. Can't think of any reason why the weeding part of it wouldn't work. Charlie Davis Piddles with growing apples Audrain County Missouri On Monday, June 1, 2015, Matt Pellerin m...@treworgyorchards.com wrote: I am interested in the concept of using a weed flamer as a burndown option in my apple orchard. Has anyone had experience using these with fruit trees? What would be the pros/cons? Thanks, -- Matthew Pellerin Agricultural Manager Treworgy Family Orchards 3876 Union St Levant, ME 04456 www.treworgyorchards.com 207-884-8354 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Weed Flamer
I’ve never used a flame weeder, but I’ve been on a number of tours where they were either demonstrated or discussed. Folks who have actually worked with them are probably either retired or too busy to comment, so I’ve summarized my recollections from those tours below. If my memory is faulty, then hopefully someone submit corrections and some additional info. 1. Flame weeders seem to work well only on very small weeds/grasses (e.g., up to 3-6 inches tall) and therefore the flaming must be done frequently (about every 2 or 3 weeks?) in warm wet climates if no herbicides are used to inhibit seed germination. 2. As I recall, one group indicated that flame weeders actually work best if there is a bit of dew or moisture on the weeds: the flames heated the surface water to destroy the plants. Although the weeds didn’t look “burned” after the flamer passed, they were actually “cooked” and died rapidly thereafter. 3. At one very large apple and cherry operation in WA state where a significant portion of the acreage committed to organic production, the farm manager told our tour group that flame weeding “involved a significant learning curve.” In their case, as I recall, the learning curve included incineration of several tractors when flames got out of control. Seems that would be less likely under eastern conditions where we are unlikely to accumulate a lot of dry debris under trees, but then anything is possible. 4. Finally one warning that my Pennsylvania Dutch grandmother gave to me and my cousins when we were small: Boys who play with fire will wet their beds! Dave Rosenberger, Plant Pathologist, Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060 On Monday, June 1, 2015, Matt Pellerin m...@treworgyorchards.commailto:m...@treworgyorchards.com wrote: I am interested in the concept of using a weed flamer as a burndown option in my apple orchard. Has anyone had experience using these with fruit trees? What would be the pros/cons? Thanks, -- Matthew Pellerin Agricultural Manager Treworgy Family Orchards 3876 Union St Levant, ME 04456 www.treworgyorchards.comhttp://www.treworgyorchards.com/ 207-884-8354 ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
