Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Hugh Thomas]

I attended the annual trade show in Washington for two years in a row,
about 2013 -14. At that show Cosmic Crisp was displayed, hyped and offered
as a tasting. I tried it twice at one show and then again at the next
year's show. There was some "crisp'" like most apples, but the taste was
shallow, it didn't linger. The crisp part was far less than Honeycrisp, and
the taste part was a lessened sensation. This is, of course, a subjective
interpretation. My taste buds are unique like my DNA, and others may have a
different view. My view is that Honeycrisp "explodes" in the mouth,
(speaking of my Honeycrisp, grown at 3500' elevation in Montana, with
summer nights cooling to 40-50 degrees F) and Cosmic Crisp is just another
apple. Most of the apples grown around Yakama, Washington have this
problem. The taste is shallow, and the fruit is huge from some orchards. I
believe the problem is night time temps. If an apple cools at night, the
fruit is smaller, firmer and sweeter. My take on it. I am not a Phd or
officially trained biologist. My guess, which is not based on science or
objective measurement, is that the hype was projected, the growers bought
into it, and now this Cosmic Crisp will enter the market and high elevation
honey crisp will blow it out of the water.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Shoemaker, William H  wrote:

> So Hugh, I hope it didn't taste "pimpled-up". Could you tell us what were
> the negatives and positives of your tasting experience?
>
> Thanks for a good laugh.
>
> Bill
>
> *William H. Shoemaker *
>
> *Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist*
>
> *University of Illinois*
>
> wshoe...@illinois.edu
> --
> *From:* apple-crop [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] on behalf of
> Hugh Thomas [hughthoma...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:15 PM
> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>
> First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee
> consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged
> super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess
> with him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest
> with a yellow *CC*.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it
> two or three times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers
> only, wherein WSU has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I
> wonder if WSU gets any our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it,
> contact your Senator.
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas <
> appleman.maur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven
>> years.
>>
>>  Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was
>> $60,000 on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees,
>> support, tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A
>> labor included. I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was
>> factored in.
>>
>> Mo Tougas
>> Tougas Family Farm llc
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed
>>> ahead.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Craig J. Kahlke
>>>
>>> Area Extension Educator
>>>
>>> Fruit Quality Management
>>>
>>> Team Leader
>>>
>>> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
>>>
>>> Cornell Cooperative Extension
>>>
>>> 4487 Lake Ave
>>>
>>> Lockport, NY 14094
>>>
>>> Cell: 585-735-5448 <(585)%20735-5448>
>>>
>>> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 <(716)%20433-8839>
>>>
>>> Fax: 716-438-0275 <(716)%20438-0275>
>>>
>>> Email: cj...@cornell.edu
>>>
>>> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
>>> Behalf Of *David Doud
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
>>> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list 
>>> *Subject:* [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with
>>> Cosmic Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>&

Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Shoemaker, William H]

So Hugh, I hope it didn't taste "pimpled-up". Could you tell us what were the 
negatives and positives of your tasting experience?

Thanks for a good laugh.

Bill

William H. Shoemaker

Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist

University of Illinois

wshoe...@illinois.edu<mailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu>


From: apple-crop [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] on behalf of Hugh 
Thomas [hughthoma...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 12:15 PM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee 
consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged 
super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess with 
him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest with a 
yellow CC.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it two or three 
times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers only, wherein WSU 
has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I wonder if WSU gets any 
our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it, contact your Senator.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas 
mailto:appleman.maur...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven years.

 Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was $60,000 
on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees, support, 
tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A labor included. I 
do not know if overhead towards packing facility was factored in.

Mo Tougas
Tougas Family Farm llc

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke 
mailto:cj...@cornell.edu>> wrote:
David,

Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed ahead.

Craig


Craig J. Kahlke
Area Extension Educator
Fruit Quality Management
Team Leader
Lake Ontario Fruit Program
Cornell Cooperative Extension
4487 Lake Ave
Lockport, NY 14094
Cell: 585-735-5448
Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237
Fax: 716-438-0275
Email: cj...@cornell.edu<mailto:cj...@cornell.edu>
http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/


From: apple-crop 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com>]
 On Behalf Of David Doud
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.com>>
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card


'et cavete ab agricola’ -

'let the grower beware'…
…and the sales desks also...



David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...



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--
Maurice Tougas
Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[David Doud]

Hugh - please don’t hold back - tell us how you really feel - 

“...red outfit with a big logo on his chest with a yellow CC.” - - and don’t go 
giving away marketing ideas - make ‘em pay for them - 
D




> On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Hugh Thomas  wrote:
> 
> First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee 
> consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged 
> super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess 
> with him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest 
> with a yellow CC.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it two 
> or three times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers only, 
> wherein WSU has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I wonder 
> if WSU gets any our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it, contact 
> your Senator. 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas  > wrote:
> My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven years.
> 
>  Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was $60,000 
> on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees, support, 
> tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A labor included. 
> I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was factored in.
> 
> Mo Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm llc
> 
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke  > wrote:
> David,
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed 
> ahead. 
> 
>  
> 
> Craig
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Craig J. Kahlke
> 
> Area Extension Educator
> 
> Fruit Quality Management
> 
> Team Leader
> 
> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
> 
> Cornell Cooperative Extension
> 
> 4487 Lake Ave
> 
> Lockport, NY 14094
> 
> Cell: 585-735-5448 
> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 
> Fax: 716-438-0275   
> 
> Email: cj...@cornell.edu 
> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/ 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com 
> ] On Behalf Of David Doud
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
> To: Apple-Crop discussion list  >
> Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
> 
>  
> 
> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
> Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering - 
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 'et cavete ab agricola’ - 
> 'let the grower beware'…
> …and the sales desks also...
> 
> 
>  
> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties - 
> 
> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com 
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Maurice Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm
> Northborough,MA 01532
> 508-450-0844 
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com 
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Hugh Thomas]

First of all, "Cosmic Crisp" is a stupid name, no doubt, some committee
consisting of 500 came up with it. Sounds like a pimpled-up teen-aged
super-hero character from another planet who gets real flakey if you mess
with him. And by the way, he has a red outfit with a big logo on his chest
with a yellow *CC*.  Secondly, it doesn't taste that good. I've tasted it
two or three times. Third, I understand it's meant for Washington growers
only, wherein WSU has a restriction. I not sure about this, but if true, I
wonder if WSU gets any our federal taxes. Is so, and you want to grow it,
contact your Senator.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, maurice tougas  wrote:

> My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven
> years.
>
>  Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was
> $60,000 on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees,
> support, tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A
> labor included. I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was
> factored in.
>
> Mo Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm llc
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke 
> wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed
>> ahead.
>>
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Craig J. Kahlke
>>
>> Area Extension Educator
>>
>> Fruit Quality Management
>>
>> Team Leader
>>
>> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
>>
>> Cornell Cooperative Extension
>>
>> 4487 Lake Ave
>>
>> Lockport, NY 14094
>>
>> Cell: 585-735-5448 <(585)%20735-5448>
>>
>> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 <(716)%20433-8839>
>>
>> Fax: 716-438-0275 <(716)%20438-0275>
>>
>> Email: cj...@cornell.edu
>>
>> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *David Doud
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
>> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list 
>> *Subject:* [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>>
>>
>>
>> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with
>> Cosmic Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-
>> gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>>
>>
>>
>> 'et cavete ab agricola’ -
>>
>> 'let the grower beware'…
>>
>> …and the sales desks also...
>>
>>
>>
>> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
>>
>> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights
>> ago...
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> apple-crop mailing list
>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Maurice Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm
> Northborough,MA 01532
> 508-450-0844 <(508)%20450-0844>
>
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[maurice tougas]

My understanding is that Cosmic Crisp will be an open variety in seven
years.

 Numbers we were quoted for "all in" establishment costs per acre was
$60,000 on a large planting. No land acquisition costs. Land prep, trees,
support, tractors, irrigation, machinery buildings and housing for H2A
labor included. I do not know if overhead towards packing facility was
factored in.

Mo Tougas
Tougas Family Farm llc

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Craig J. Kahlke  wrote:

> David,
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed
> ahead.
>
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig J. Kahlke
>
> Area Extension Educator
>
> Fruit Quality Management
>
> Team Leader
>
> Lake Ontario Fruit Program
>
> Cornell Cooperative Extension
>
> 4487 Lake Ave
>
> Lockport, NY 14094
>
> Cell: 585-735-5448 <(585)%20735-5448>
>
> Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237 <(716)%20433-8839>
>
> Fax: 716-438-0275 <(716)%20438-0275>
>
> Email: cj...@cornell.edu
>
> http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] *On
> Behalf Of *David Doud
> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
> *To:* Apple-Crop discussion list 
> *Subject:* [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp
>
>
>
> A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with
> Cosmic Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -
>
>
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-
> crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card
>
>
>
> 'et cavete ab agricola’ -
>
> 'let the grower beware'…
>
> …and the sales desks also...
>
>
>
> David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
>
> so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights
> ago...
>
>
>
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>


-- 
Maurice Tougas
Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Shoemaker, William H]

Very interesting. Like the author and commenters said, consumers will be the 
key. This isn't about retail agriculture, this is full-blown wholesale 
production and marketing. The 'Cosmic Crisp' all-in approach really is a 
gamble. Consumer response will depend on how well WA delivers this product to 
consumers. Harvest timing and post-harvest handling will need to be immaculate, 
and I have not always been impressed with how the industry in WA delivers on 
quality. I know the growers are good, but I think packers don't focus as hard 
on quality as they should. There are so many choices out the for consumers, and 
Fuji is doing pretty well as a low cost choice with lots of volume going into 
the market. It seems to me to be a razor's edge proposition. But then, I 
haven't tasted 'Cosmic Crisp'.

Just stirring the apple sauce, I guess.

Bill

William H. Shoemaker

Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist

University of Illinois

wshoe...@illinois.edu


From: apple-crop [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] on behalf of David 
Doud [david_d...@me.com]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 9:33 AM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card


'et cavete ab agricola’ -

'let the grower beware'…

…and the sales desks also...


David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...

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Re: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

[Craig J. Kahlke]

David,

Thanks for sharing this.  When WA decides on something, it’s full speed ahead.

Craig


Craig J. Kahlke
Area Extension Educator
Fruit Quality Management
Team Leader
Lake Ontario Fruit Program
Cornell Cooperative Extension
4487 Lake Ave
Lockport, NY 14094
Cell: 585-735-5448
Work: 716-433-8839, ext. 237
Fax: 716-438-0275
Email: cj...@cornell.edu
http://lof.cce.cornell.edu/


From: apple-crop [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.com] On Behalf Of 
David Doud
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:33 AM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
Subject: [Apple-Crop] Cosmic Crisp

A good concise article on what Washington state growers are doing with Cosmic 
Crisp over the next two years - the figures are staggering -

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/washington-apple-growers-gamble-big-cosmic-crisp-byron-phillips?trk=mp-reader-card


'et cavete ab agricola’ -

'let the grower beware'…
…and the sales desks also...



David Doud - grower, IN - silver tip on early blooming varieties -
so sorry to see reports of the eastern temperatures of a couple nights ago...


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