Re: [Apple-Crop] Soil Anchors

[Kevin VerSnyder]

David, we use duckbills or manta rays exclusively here in the sandy loam soils 
of Leelanau County because of high failure rate
With helicals in sand. I like the ductile 11" manta ray for apples and the 6" 
inch aluminum or ductile for rocky soil in grapes. Whenever we have a helical 
fail in an old vineyard a duckbill is used to replace it. Hope this helps.

Kevin J. VerSnyder
VerSnyder Orchards
Lake Leelanau, MI 49653

> On Mar 30, 2017, at 4:30 PM, David Kollas  wrote:
> 
>Does anyone have experience with duckbill-type earth anchors for row-ends 
> in trellis orchard or vineyard?
> 
>Compacted glacial till is a common feature below about 18-20 inches here.  
> I am looking for anchoring against 
> possibly as much as 2000 pounds force.  Can aluminum duckbills be driven into 
> glacial till?  Does galvanized cable 
> rust out after a few years?  Other important observations? I didn’t 
> mention that the soils here are abundantly
> supplied with a wide range of stone sizes and types.
> 
> David Kollas
> Kollas Orchard
> Tolland, CT
> 
>
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Soil Anchors

[Michael Vaughn]

I am in the 8th year of 3 year staggered planting growth of a Tall Spindle
Apple Orchard.
The Planted Area is about 2.5 acres containing 1750 trees.
As a first time grower in a VERY windy/blustery location, I did not want to
deal with movement or collapse.
Hence I chose 14ft long treated Yellow southern Pine 5-6 Posts driven 4
feet into the ground by a hydraulic ram.
We were very careful to keep the rows stright and posts Plumb.
Posts are spaced to allow 10 trees between them @ 3 ft spacing per tree.
This left 10 feet of post to support 4 wires
each helping the trees to withstand wind pressure.

The end supports for each row are pinned @ about 8ft to anchor posts driven
4 ft into the ground & secured with guide wires @ 45 degree angles.  This
created an equalateral triangle at each end offering very strong, stable
support.
The wire is high tensile 12 guage fence wire.  All wires have been
tightened by hand with a wire stretcher, using grepples and two leaded
crimps on each tail. There has been little change in the wire tightness ie
slack.  In 2015 we produced 55,000lbs of apples in a not yet mature
Orchard.  We are striving for about 400 more bushels or 56 to 57,000 pounds
as a max.  That's a good amount of support from this design.

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Jon Clements  wrote:

> George, I can't build anything straight, so I refrain from giving advice
> on trellis construction!
>
> But, we all might find this information useful:
>
> Constructing a vineyard trellis, Paul Domoto
>
> http://www.prairiefirewinery.com/Cellar/wp-content/uploads/
> 2016/12/Vineyard-Trellis-Construction.pdf
>
>
> How to Build Orchard and Vineyard Trellises - Book
>
> http://www.kencove.com/fence/Vineyard+Trellis_detail_ABT.php
>
>
> Orchard and Vineyard Trellis Construction: Part 1
>
> http://blog.kencove.com/orchard-and-vineyard-trellis-construction-part-1/
>
>
> TALL SPINDLE ORCHARD SUPPORT SYSTEMS
>
> http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/neworchard/english/apples/9trellis.html
>
>
> Experiences with Support Systems for the Tall Spindle Apple Planting System
>
> http://nyshs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1.Experiences-
> with-Support-Systems-for-the-Tall-Spindle-Apple-Planting-System.pdf
>
>
> Trellis Support Systems for High-Density Apples
>
> http://www.hort.cornell.edu/expo/proceedings/2017/TreeFruit%20Weather.%
> 20Trellis%20Support%20Systems%20for%20High-Density%20Apples.pdf
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:39 PM, George Greene 
> wrote:
>
>> David and All:
>>
>> I remember someone burying 5 foot pieces of telephone poles, cross-wise,
>> perhaps 3-5 feet deep at the end of a row.  Most of the trellises I built
>> in Biglerville PA survived.
>>
>> I did have a Geneva Double-Curtin grape trellis fail when, after a big
>> wind storm flipped up one side of the Double-Curtin grape trellis, the
>> terrific imbalance caused the posts to snap off.
>>
>> Come on where are all of the experts like Jon Clements or others who are
>> the experts.  I thought that one (or by now several) states had Extension
>> Bulletins on this subject.
>>
>> Be well, George
>>
>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 2:04 PM, David Kollas  wrote:
>>
>> Kurt and Mo:
>>
>> Thank you for your comments.
>>
>> If pull-out is the reason for discarding the Duckbill anchoring method, I
>> wonder if a larger model would
>> overcome that.  The largest Duckbill model is about 12 inches long.  A
>> second line of “duckbills”, also by Foresight
>> Products, is called Manta Ray, and is made for increased resistance,
>> installed with hydraulic jackhammer.  There
>> are also options for stoney soils  (ductile iron, hot-dipped in zinc,
>> rather than the standard aluminum).  However,
>> searches of company websites, and telephone contacts, have been short on
>> pertinent,applicable value in my recent
>> efforts.
>>
>> The thought of trying to put auger-type anchors in my stony land does
>> not appeal to me, and driving
>> posts has never attracted me either.  Channel iron does seem worth
>>  trying, but I am hoping to find something
>> I could get really excited about.
>>
>> David
>> Kollas Orchard, CT
>>
>>
>> ___
>> apple-crop mailing list
>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>
>>
>> George Greene
>> 68 Willow Lane
>> Wiscasset, ME 04578
>> 207-882-8074 <(207)%20882-8074>
>> cortla...@icloud.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> JMCEXTMAN
> Jon Clements
> cleme...@umext.umass.edu
> aka 'Mr Liberty'
> aka 'Mr Honeycrisp'
> IM mrhoneycrisp
> 413.478.7219 <(413)%20478-7219>
>
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> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>


-- 
Michael D. Vaughn

Re: [Apple-Crop] Soil Anchors

[Jon Clements]

George, I can't build anything straight, so I refrain from giving advice on
trellis construction!

But, we all might find this information useful:

Constructing a vineyard trellis, Paul Domoto

http://www.prairiefirewinery.com/Cellar/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Vineyard-Trellis-Construction.pdf


How to Build Orchard and Vineyard Trellises - Book

http://www.kencove.com/fence/Vineyard+Trellis_detail_ABT.php


Orchard and Vineyard Trellis Construction: Part 1

http://blog.kencove.com/orchard-and-vineyard-trellis-construction-part-1/


TALL SPINDLE ORCHARD SUPPORT SYSTEMS

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/neworchard/english/apples/9trellis.html


Experiences with Support Systems for the Tall Spindle Apple Planting System

http://nyshs.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/1.Experiences-with-Support-Systems-for-the-Tall-Spindle-Apple-Planting-System.pdf


Trellis Support Systems for High-Density Apples

http://www.hort.cornell.edu/expo/proceedings/2017/TreeFruit%20Weather.%20Trellis%20Support%20Systems%20for%20High-Density%20Apples.pdf

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 2:39 PM, George Greene  wrote:

> David and All:
>
> I remember someone burying 5 foot pieces of telephone poles, cross-wise,
> perhaps 3-5 feet deep at the end of a row.  Most of the trellises I built
> in Biglerville PA survived.
>
> I did have a Geneva Double-Curtin grape trellis fail when, after a big
> wind storm flipped up one side of the Double-Curtin grape trellis, the
> terrific imbalance caused the posts to snap off.
>
> Come on where are all of the experts like Jon Clements or others who are
> the experts.  I thought that one (or by now several) states had Extension
> Bulletins on this subject.
>
> Be well, George
>
> On Mar 31, 2017, at 2:04 PM, David Kollas  wrote:
>
> Kurt and Mo:
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
> If pull-out is the reason for discarding the Duckbill anchoring method, I
> wonder if a larger model would
> overcome that.  The largest Duckbill model is about 12 inches long.  A
> second line of “duckbills”, also by Foresight
> Products, is called Manta Ray, and is made for increased resistance,
> installed with hydraulic jackhammer.  There
> are also options for stoney soils  (ductile iron, hot-dipped in zinc,
> rather than the standard aluminum).  However,
> searches of company websites, and telephone contacts, have been short on
> pertinent,applicable value in my recent
> efforts.
>
> The thought of trying to put auger-type anchors in my stony land does
> not appeal to me, and driving
> posts has never attracted me either.  Channel iron does seem worth
>  trying, but I am hoping to find something
> I could get really excited about.
>
> David
> Kollas Orchard, CT
>
>
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>
> George Greene
> 68 Willow Lane
> Wiscasset, ME 04578
> 207-882-8074 <(207)%20882-8074>
> cortla...@icloud.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>


-- 
JMCEXTMAN
Jon Clements
cleme...@umext.umass.edu
aka 'Mr Liberty'
aka 'Mr Honeycrisp'
IM mrhoneycrisp
413.478.7219
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Re: [Apple-Crop] Soil Anchors

[David Gleason]

This year at the Washington Hort Meetings and at the IFTA, Mark De Kleine gave 
presentations on trellis building and structural integrity for support systems.
Check out this article: 
http://www.growingproduce.com/fruits/apples-pears/dont-underestimate-the-importance-of-a-solid-foundation-in-your-orchard/

Dave Gleason
Superfreshgrowers.com
Yakima, WA


On March 31, 2017, at 11:05 AM, David Kollas  wrote:

Kurt and Mo:

Thank you for your comments.

If pull-out is the reason for discarding the Duckbill anchoring 
method, I wonder if a larger model would
overcome that.  The largest Duckbill model is about 12 inches long.  A second 
line of “duckbills”, also by Foresight 
Products, is called Manta Ray, and is made for increased resistance, installed 
with hydraulic jackhammer.  There 
are also options for stoney soils  (ductile iron, hot-dipped in zinc, rather 
than the standard aluminum).  However,
searches of company websites, and telephone contacts, have been short on 
pertinent,applicable value in my recent 
efforts.

 The thought of trying to put auger-type anchors in my stony land 
does not appeal to me, and driving
posts has never attracted me either.  Channel iron does seem worth  trying, but 
I am hoping to find something
I could get really excited about.

David
Kollas Orchard, CT


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Re: [Apple-Crop] Soil Anchors

[George Greene]

David and All:

I remember someone burying 5 foot pieces of telephone poles, cross-wise, 
perhaps 3-5 feet deep at the end of a row.  Most of the trellises I built in 
Biglerville PA survived.

I did have a Geneva Double-Curtin grape trellis fail when, after a big wind 
storm flipped up one side of the Double-Curtin grape trellis, the terrific 
imbalance caused the posts to snap off.

Come on where are all of the experts like Jon Clements or others who are the 
experts.  I thought that one (or by now several) states had Extension Bulletins 
on this subject.

Be well, George

> On Mar 31, 2017, at 2:04 PM, David Kollas  wrote:
> 
>   Kurt and Mo:
> 
>   Thank you for your comments.
> 
>   If pull-out is the reason for discarding the Duckbill anchoring 
> method, I wonder if a larger model would
> overcome that.  The largest Duckbill model is about 12 inches long.  A second 
> line of “duckbills”, also by Foresight 
> Products, is called Manta Ray, and is made for increased resistance, 
> installed with hydraulic jackhammer.  There 
> are also options for stoney soils  (ductile iron, hot-dipped in zinc, rather 
> than the standard aluminum).  However,
> searches of company websites, and telephone contacts, have been short on 
> pertinent,applicable value in my recent 
> efforts.
>   
>The thought of trying to put auger-type anchors in my stony land 
> does not appeal to me, and driving
> posts has never attracted me either.  Channel iron does seem worth  trying, 
> but I am hoping to find something
> I could get really excited about.
> 
> David
> Kollas Orchard, CT
> 
>   
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
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George Greene
68 Willow Lane
Wiscasset, ME 04578
207-882-8074
cortla...@icloud.com




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Re: [Apple-Crop] Soil Anchors

[Hugh Thomas]

David,
I use these, and they work great. I have no idea how they would work in
your situation:
http://www.wilsonirr.com/ecommerce/trellis/anchoring/screw-anc-36-hvy-8-disc-hv-rod.php


You screw them into the ground using a tool that mounts on a 3 point auger
rig:
http://www.wilsonirr.com/ecommerce/trellis/anchoring/anchor-insert-tool-2-3-4-x-5-3.php

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:04 PM, David Kollas  wrote:

> Kurt and Mo:
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
> If pull-out is the reason for discarding the Duckbill
> anchoring method, I wonder if a larger model would
> overcome that.  The largest Duckbill model is about 12 inches long.  A
> second line of “duckbills”, also by Foresight
> Products, is called Manta Ray, and is made for increased resistance,
> installed with hydraulic jackhammer.  There
> are also options for stoney soils  (ductile iron, hot-dipped in zinc,
> rather than the standard aluminum).  However,
> searches of company websites, and telephone contacts, have been short on
> pertinent,applicable value in my recent
> efforts.
>
>  The thought of trying to put auger-type anchors in my stony
> land does not appeal to me, and driving
> posts has never attracted me either.  Channel iron does seem worth
> trying, but I am hoping to find something
> I could get really excited about.
>
> David
> Kollas Orchard, CT
>
>
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> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
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