Re: Idiomatic way to return a single value from an async function
You could do both: Make the channel optional. If it's provided, use that and return it. If it's not provided, create a new one and use and return that. This way the caller gets to decide which they wish to use based on who the owner of the channel should be or if the channel should be reused elsewhere. For example, for a once-off call, creating s new channel may make more sense but if the function is called frequently it might make more sense to reuse one channel, especially if this channel is used with other plumbing like pub/sub or mult which you would otherwise need to set up every time. On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:42 Mike Haney txmikes...@gmail.com wrote: Eric Normand has an interesting article on this here: http://www.lispcast.com/core-async-code-style -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Idiomatic way to return a single value from an async function
+1, this is mostly what we resort to. (defn some-async-func [param-a param-b [out-chan]] (let [ch (or out-chan (chan)] ... ) 2014-11-11 8:53 GMT+00:00 Daniel Kersten dkers...@gmail.com: You could do both: Make the channel optional. If it's provided, use that and return it. If it's not provided, create a new one and use and return that. This way the caller gets to decide which they wish to use based on who the owner of the channel should be or if the channel should be reused elsewhere. For example, for a once-off call, creating s new channel may make more sense but if the function is called frequently it might make more sense to reuse one channel, especially if this channel is used with other plumbing like pub/sub or mult which you would otherwise need to set up every time. On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:42 Mike Haney txmikes...@gmail.com wrote: Eric Normand has an interesting article on this here: http://www.lispcast.com/core-async-code-style -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- László Török Checkout justonemorepoint.com - Know your true value -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Idiomatic way to return a single value from an async function
Hey, what is your definition of an async function in Clojure? I imagine something something that starts a (go ...), if appropriate you can use the result of (go ...) as the result of the function since that is a channel that will receive the return value of the go block when it dies. (defn start-async [] (go (! (async/timeout 1000)) :done)) (let [c (start-async)] (prn (!! c))) Other than it is highly dependent on the function you are writing. Sometimes it will be required to take an external channel, sometimes it will be useless. Usually depends on the types of coordination required between the different parts. There is no universally correct way. Just my 2 cents, /thomas On Monday, November 10, 2014 5:30:41 PM UTC+1, Alexander Kiel wrote: Hi, what is the most idiomatic way to return a single value from an async function in Clojure? A: return a channel which conveys the result later; also closes the channel (defn f [x] (let [c (chan)] ; put result onto c and close c later c)) B: take a channel onto which the result is put later; do not close that channel; return nil immediately (defn f [x c] ; put result onto and close c later nil) Variant A has the advantage that it needs one function argument less than variant B. It's also better usable in higher order functions like map. Variant A is also more easy to use if you need to create a channel anyway. Variant A has the disadvantage of creating a new channel each time the async function is called. According my measurements using criterium 0.4.3, clojure 1.6.0 and core.async 0.1.346.0-17112a-alpha, the runtime cost of creating a channel is about 8 times more expensive as creating a single object. Variant B has the advantage to not create a channel on every call. You can supply the same channel many times to the function. On the other hand, the results of multiple calls to f are not likely to arrive on that single channel in call order. If you have such an ordering requirement, you have to create a single channel for each function call anyway. Variant B has the disadvantage that it requires one function argument more than variant A. As a consequence, you can't simply map such a function over a list of inputs. Variant A seems to be the winner. But I ask specially because pipeline-async https://clojure.github.io/core.async/#clojure.core.async/pipeline-async uses variant B. What do you think? Alex -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[ANN] cljs-start 1.0.4
Hi all, I just deployed the 0.1.4 release of cljs-start lein-template to create ClojureScript libs with batteries included. https://github.com/magomimmo/cljs-start https://github.com/magomimmo/cljs-start It update all dependencies and plugins to the latest available releases: - clojure 1.6.0 - clojurescript 0.0-2371 - lein-cljsbuild 1.0.3 - clojurescript-test 0.3.1 - ring 1.3.1 - compojure 1.2.1 - austin 0.1.5 HIH My best mimmo signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
Re: multimethod, record, type, and protocol pitfalls?
Helping newcomers to the language on #clojure, I often find the need to use a protocol in reference to it's namespace rather than the namespace of the datatype extending it is a counter-intuitive one for people learning the language. Similar with dispatch methods. Speculatively, I think it has to do with a bad mental model of the primary ownership of the method - often the method is thought of as belonging to the datatype, where it actually belongs to the multimethod / protocol interface. A good example of this in practice: people who think they need circular namespace dependencies or forward declaration in order for two records / types to interact often have a hard time realizing that if they code to a set of multimethods or a defprotocol and not a concrete datatype, the circularity / forward reference is usually trivial to eliminate. And more fundamentally that the agency doesn't belong to the record or type, it belongs to the method functions being called, and to abstract that away from a concrete datatype is precisely the point of these polymorphic constructs. On Monday, October 27, 2014 3:59:43 AM UTC-7, Gary Verhaegen wrote: As recently mentioned on another thread, this also means that you cannot have two different protocols with the same method names in the same namespace. This may be surprising, especially from an OO background, where it is very natural to have two types with the same operations. On Monday, 27 October 2014, Sven Richter sve...@googlemail.com javascript: wrote: Hi Daniel, When running through tutorials and blog posts it did not occur to me that the functions of a defprotocol are namespaced to where they are defined. Meaning, calling these functions I have to use their original namespace. It is obvious when one reads the official documentation, but one does not always do this first, so that wsa one pitfall I ran into. Best Regards, Sven Am Sonntag, 26. Oktober 2014 16:48:29 UTC+1 schrieb Daniel Higginbotham: What's difficult when it comes to understanding multimethods, records, types, and protocols? I'm writing a chapter on multimethods, records, types, and protocols for the book Clojure for the Brave and True, and I'd love to hear about what kinds of pitfalls I should be sure to cover :) Thanks! Daniel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Clojure CLR Experiences
Hi All, We are using Clojure on the JVM but one of our .Net developers has asked me whether I have considered using it on the CLR. I haven't tried doing it so I wondered if anyone can share any experiences using Clojure on the CLR? A quick google search suggests the project is still active but not especially vibrant (current version 1.4, last commit 24 days ago) but maybe that's unfair. I'm broadly interested in the following... * Is Clojure CLR production ready? * Do its version numbers correspond to the core Clojure version numbers? (would it be fair to say the Java version is the core version) * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? * How good is the Visual Studio support for Clojure? * Does Leiningen work? * Are there any significant pitfalls to be aware of? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Adrian -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Idiomatic way to return a single value from an async function
Similarly, but I would be explicit about the different arities, to avoid the intermediate sequence created by [arg [option]] and to get errors if there are too many arguments. (defn foo ([input] (foo input (chan 1)) ([input ch] ... do something and put to ch ...)) If your function can produce multiple outputs, you can `close!` the channel to signal it is finished, which is what `pipeline-async` expects. –S -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Clojure CLR Experiences
Not sure why you say that 1.4 is the current version. ClojureCLR releases are here: https://www.nuget.org/packages/Clojure - as of today 1.6.0.1 is the current stable version. Leiningen plugin is here: https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-clr Shantanu On Tuesday, 11 November 2014 21:08:58 UTC+5:30, Adrian Mowat wrote: Hi All, We are using Clojure on the JVM but one of our .Net developers has asked me whether I have considered using it on the CLR. I haven't tried doing it so I wondered if anyone can share any experiences using Clojure on the CLR? A quick google search suggests the project is still active but not especially vibrant (current version 1.4, last commit 24 days ago) but maybe that's unfair. I'm broadly interested in the following... * Is Clojure CLR production ready? * Do its version numbers correspond to the core Clojure version numbers? (would it be fair to say the Java version is the core version) * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? * How good is the Visual Studio support for Clojure? * Does Leiningen work? * Are there any significant pitfalls to be aware of? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Adrian -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Map holds on to element being processed
Thanks! I was playing around with similar variants last night came up with some that seem to work for one element, but not many. I was seeing a similar result from your version: = (map2 count [(repeat 1e8 stuff) (repeat 1e8 stuff) (repeat 1e8 stuff)]) OutOfMemoryError GC overhead limit exceeded java.lang.Double.valueOf (Double.java:521) clojure.lang.Numbers$DoubleOps.dec (Numbers.java:628) clojure.lang.Numbers.dec (Numbers.java:118) clojure.core/take/fn--4270 (core.clj:2627) clojure.lang.LazySeq.sval (LazySeq.java:40) clojure.lang.LazySeq.seq (LazySeq.java:49) clojure.lang.Cons.next (Cons.java:39) clojure.lang.RT.countFrom (RT.java:540) clojure.lang.RT.count (RT.java:530) clojure.core/count (core.clj:839) pigpen.runtime/map2/fn--1344 (NO_SOURCE_FILE:5) clojure.lang.LazySeq.sval (LazySeq.java:40) But then it dawned on us to try a list instead of a vector for the main seq: = (map2 count (list (repeat 1e8 stuff) (repeat 1e8 stuff) (repeat 1e8 stuff))) (1 1 1) It does end up thrashing with GCs a bit, but in the end it does the job. It seems like the vector was holding on to something that the list doesn't. It's unfortunate that I would need a custom map implementation to make this work. Elsewhere in the code I (somewhat accidentally) ended up using async channels to solve the same problem. Instead of modeling the large collection as a lazy seq, I have a producer put items into a collection and a consumer read from the collection and transform them (count in this example). In general, would it be better to use channels instead of lazy seqs for very large sequences? Lazy seqs seem to have a couple of disadvantages at scale: you have to be really careful not to hold on to the head (frequently this is hidden anyway), and the evaluation of the lazy seq seems to stress out the GC. Are there other alternatives for large seqs that are better than either of these options? Thanks, Matt On Monday, November 10, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Andy Fingerhut wrote: At least in your particular case, replacing map with map2, defined below as a small modification to a subset of map, seems to do the trick: (defn map2 [f coll] (lazy-seq (when-let [s (seq coll)] (let [r (rest s)] (cons (f (first s)) (map2 f r)) (map2 count [(repeat 1e8 stuff)]) I believe this is because the original definition of map, or the subset of it below: (defn map [f coll] (lazy-seq (when-let [s (seq coll)] (cons (f (first s)) (map f (rest s)) holds onto the head via needing to keep the value of s around throughout the entire call to (f (first s)) in order to later make the call (map f (rest s)). In map2, the value of s is no longer needed by the time f is called. Andy On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 7:48 PM, 'Matt Bossenbroek' via Clojure clojure@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com) wrote: Ran into an interesting problem today. In short, this works: (count (repeat 1e8 stuff)) But this doesn't: (map count [(repeat 1e8 stuff)]) To be fair, given sufficient memory, it would eventually complete. (If the second example does work for you, change it to 1e10 or something higher). The first one works because nothing is holding on to the head of the seq. My assumption is that the second is eating memory because map still has a reference to the item being processed, while the call to count is causing it to be evaluated. Thus the whole seq is retained and we run out of memory. Is my guess correct? If so, is there a workaround for this? Thanks, Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com) Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com) For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com). For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com) Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com) For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Announcing Smeagol, a very simple wiki engine inspired by Gollum
For a project recently I needed a wiki engine which was simple and easily backed up, but which had authentication. I very much liked Gollum https://github.com/gollum/gollum/wiki, but it does not have authentication, and I thought it would be simpler for me to write a wiki engine from scratch in Clojure than to modify Gollum. So here is Smeagol https://github.com/simon-brooke/smeagol. It works now, but the security is pretty crude at this stage and the Git integration which I plan does not yet exist. Feel free to fork or adapt, or just use; any fixes or feedback welcome. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
test.check slow shrinking
Using test.check, I'm finding the shrinking to be very, very slow. Running
a hundred cases takes a few seconds, unless it hits an error, in which case
it takes 40-60 minutes to shrink, and the shrinking is not very effective
(resulting test case is much larger than necessary). Sometimes the
shrinking is much faster. It behaves a bit like it's occasionally getting
into a pathological state, or a difficult shrinking scenario.
Are there any docs on generators or the shrinking algorithm that would help
build tests that shrink more effectively?
The problematic generator builds a randomly-sized matrix of integers, with
randomly assigned names for the rows and columns. The failure case is when
either a column or row name is repeated. I expect the slow shrinking has
something to do with it being rare for the generator to emit the same name
twice.
; Generator of randomly sized matrices of random numbers.
(def gen-matrix
(gen/bind
gen/s-pos-int
(fn [x] (gen/bind
gen/s-pos-int
(fn [y] (gen/vector (gen/vector gen/int x) y))
; Generator of matrix with probe and sample ids.
(def gen-tsv
(gen/bind
gen-matrix
(fn [m]
(gen/hash-map
:probes (gen/vector
(gen/such-that not-empty gen/string-alpha-numeric)
(count m))
:samples (gen/vector
(gen/such-that not-empty gen/string-alpha-numeric)
(count (first m)))
:matrix (gen/return m)
Shrinking will result in a case like
{:matrix [[1 4 -3] [-4 -3 -5] [-5 2 3] [4 -5 -5] [1 -2 3] [1 4 1]],
:samples [0 0 0], :probes [0 0 0 0 0 0]}
where :samples [0 0] :probes[0] would do.
The following test will exhibit the behavior, sometimes succeeding,
sometimes failing quickly, sometimes shrinking for a very long time:
(tc/quick-check 100 (prop/for-all [tsv gen-tsv] (= (count (set (:probes
tsv))) (count (:probes tsv)
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
Clojure group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Clojure CLR Experiences
Hi, Thanks for the info and the link to the lein plugin. I checked git hub and the latest branch was 1.4.1. That coupled with this blog http://clojureclr.blogspot.co.uk suggested the latest version was 1.4. Looks like I missed the crucial link :-) Cheers Adrian — Sent from Mailbox On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Shantanu Kumar kumar.shant...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure why you say that 1.4 is the current version. ClojureCLR releases are here: https://www.nuget.org/packages/Clojure - as of today 1.6.0.1 is the current stable version. Leiningen plugin is here: https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-clr Shantanu On Tuesday, 11 November 2014 21:08:58 UTC+5:30, Adrian Mowat wrote: Hi All, We are using Clojure on the JVM but one of our .Net developers has asked me whether I have considered using it on the CLR. I haven't tried doing it so I wondered if anyone can share any experiences using Clojure on the CLR? A quick google search suggests the project is still active but not especially vibrant (current version 1.4, last commit 24 days ago) but maybe that's unfair. I'm broadly interested in the following... * Is Clojure CLR production ready? * Do its version numbers correspond to the core Clojure version numbers? (would it be fair to say the Java version is the core version) * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? * How good is the Visual Studio support for Clojure? * Does Leiningen work? * Are there any significant pitfalls to be aware of? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Adrian -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/Vz6C9rMeu8Q/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: ClojureScript and development workflow
Any update on how to do this from LightTable? On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Chris Granger ibdk...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, I'm working on this with Light Table, which removes a lot of the difficulties here - it will be include this script tag and you're ready to go. There's no reason that we need to jump through a bunch of hoops here. My plan is that the next release (sometime after strange loop) will include a nice way to work with CLJS such that a very nice getting started video could be created. :) Cheers, Chris. On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 6:10:29 AM UTC-7, Chas Emerick wrote: On Sep 11, 2012, at 4:00 AM, Laurent PETIT wrote: 2012/9/10 Chas Emerick ch...@cemerick.com I've been using a combination of lein-cljsbuild to keep the on-disk generated code fresh and piggieback[1] for all of my cljs REPL needs. Hello Chas, I've tried to use piggieback. My current stack for playing with the concepts is leiningen2 on the command line (to start the server), with clsjbuild to compile the browser_repl.cljs to bootstrap the REPL machinery (lein cljsbuild once), regular lein repl once project.clj has been configured with the proper options) and a regular CCW 0.10.0 nrepl client. It works OK with the out of the box Rhino-backed evaluator, but as you might guess, I have no interest in this and then I quickly jump to try get a Browser-based REPL running. That's where things broke. I did not manage to get things compiled correctly. As it stands, it seems that I'll have to read understand wiki pages from ClojureScript project, nrepl documentation, piggieback documentation, cljsbuild documentation, to really grasp the whole thing. Seems a little bit daunting just to be able to play with it. Is there an easier way ? A resource somewhere which already explains step-by-step how to get started with a new project, cljsbuild for compiling from time to time, and piggieback ? Just asking before starting digging :-) There is a how-to in piggieback's README for using a browser-repl environment rather than Rhino. Nelson Morris was actually the first one to get that working, and I'm using it regularly, so it *does* work, though there's no doubt there's a lot of pieces you need to put together (for my part, I blew nearly an hour tearing my hair out before re-reading the browser-repl tutorial,[1] and seeing near the bottom that loading the HTML page from disk wouldn't work; once I served the page from localhost, everything fell together). FWIW, I've found ClojureScript itself to be very solid so far; there are some unfortunate (IMO unnecessary) incompatibilities between it and Clojure, but [2] is the only thing I've really tripped up on from a technical standpoint. I think your assessment that the learning curve is daunting is just about right, but that largely lays with the state of tooling, and the disjointed nature of the development process. With Clojure, you always have a single environment (the JVM or CLR), into which you can load code all day from nearly anywhere without having to think much about the logistics of it. ClojureScript necessarily implies a more complicated setup: there's your REPL environment, probably a browser, and maybe a connection between the two; you *must* have your code on disk and in the right place in order for Google Closure / lein-cljsbuild to get at it (not strictly true, but driving the compiler from a Clojure REPL isn't any easier outside of simple cases); your Ring webapp needs to be configured to be serving the gclosure output; and, you'd obviously like to be able to control and monitor all of this from your editor/environment of choice. (I'd like to eventually do a 'Starting ClojureScript' screencast similar to [3], but the logistics of going from zero to hero with ClojureScript are IMO far too hard and nuanced still in order to present them well in that sort of medium.) I think the contrast is so stark in part because of how good we've had it on the Clojure side. I suspect that CoffeeScript programming must be similarly disjointed, since all the same moving pieces are necessary (and perhaps without the benefit of upsides like a browser-connected REPL and so on). Welcome to the wonderful world of modern web development! :-P I think that's all a long way of saying: start digging! Cheers, - Chas [1] https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/The-REPL- and-Evaluation-Environments [2] http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-358 [3] http://cemerick.com/2012/05/02/starting-clojure/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: Clojure CLR Experiences
Hi Adrian, I'll share some of my experiences. * Is Clojure CLR production ready? Yes, I have been using it in production for about 2 years now. * Do its version numbers correspond to the core Clojure version numbers? (would it be fair to say the Java version is the core version) It's fair to say that the Java is the core version, but Dave Miller (the ClojureCLR maintainer) does a pretty good job of keeping it up to date with the Java version. * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? It is feasible if you put the effort into testing and writing the code correctly, but currently I don't think cljx supports ClojureCLR - you'd probably need to add that functionality yourself. * How good is the Visual Studio support for Clojure? I use emacs and *inferior-lisp* and am pretty happy with them so I can't comment on the Visual Studio workflow. * Does Leiningen work? There is Shantanu's lein plugin and I've tried to do a proof of concept nlein, but there really isn't the equivalent thing in ClojureCLR. I mostly deploy my .clj files as embedded resources in C# DLL's and have C# call into Clojure to bootstrap things. I'm sure other people use other strategies. * Are there any significant pitfalls to be aware of? Not as many libraries are available and you'll have to do a fair amount of groundwork yourself. Startup time is similar to the JVM verison. Overall, once I got past the initial hurdles, I found the environment to be quite stable and a huge productivity boost. I would definitely recommend ClojureCLR for projects with a big existing .NET code base. For new projects, I do usually go with JVM Clojure mainly for access to more libraries and IDE's. At the time when I started using ClojureCLR our team was heavily invested in .NET so it made a lot of sense and was definitely well worth it... Be sure to check out the ClojureCLR google group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/clojure-clr On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:38:58 AM UTC-5, Adrian Mowat wrote: Hi All, We are using Clojure on the JVM but one of our .Net developers has asked me whether I have considered using it on the CLR. I haven't tried doing it so I wondered if anyone can share any experiences using Clojure on the CLR? A quick google search suggests the project is still active but not especially vibrant (current version 1.4, last commit 24 days ago) but maybe that's unfair. I'm broadly interested in the following... * Is Clojure CLR production ready? * Do its version numbers correspond to the core Clojure version numbers? (would it be fair to say the Java version is the core version) * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? * How good is the Visual Studio support for Clojure? * Does Leiningen work? * Are there any significant pitfalls to be aware of? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Adrian -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
(ANN) simple-brepl 0.1.2 released
Hi all - just a quick note to announce the release of *simple-brepl* 0.1.2. 'simple-brepl', as the name suggests, is a really simple way to connect to ClojureScript browser REPLs. It's built atop Tom Jakubowski's excellent Weasel library, which uses Websockets to communicate with the browser. Full docs and a sample project are on GitHub at https://github.com/james-henderson/simple-brepl Any problems, let me know! James -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Announcing Smeagol, a very simple wiki engine inspired by Gollum
And now the Git integration does exist and does work. Clojure is such a joy - a complete functional Wiki engine in less than eight hours actual coding! Obviously it's alpha quality, and could definitely be improved, but it works now. On Tuesday, 11 November 2014 18:00:18 UTC, Simon Brooke wrote: For a project recently I needed a wiki engine which was simple and easily backed up, but which had authentication. I very much liked Gollum https://github.com/gollum/gollum/wiki, but it does not have authentication, and I thought it would be simpler for me to write a wiki engine from scratch in Clojure than to modify Gollum. So here is Smeagol https://github.com/simon-brooke/smeagol. It works now, but the security is pretty crude at this stage and the Git integration which I plan does not yet exist. Feel free to fork or adapt, or just use; any fixes or feedback welcome. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Clojure CLR Experiences
On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 9:38:58 AM UTC-6, Adrian Mowat wrote: * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? With the feature expressions work we hope to include in 1.7, this will become possible. Our primary goal is Clojure/ClojureScript portability as that is significantly more common, but I think with the corresponding changes in ClojureCLR, this should become possible. One issue in particular that I know is the pipe-delimited symbol extension in ClojureCLR which would not be parseable in Clojure or ClojureScript even with feature expressions so that would be a limit. There may be other issues as well. We would like this to work though eventually. Alex -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Clojure CLR Experiences
Re versions: look at the tags, not the branches. The 1.4.1 branch was anomalous, due to needing to get out a bug fix. On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 2:17:29 PM UTC-6, Aaron wrote: Hi Adrian, I'll share some of my experiences. * Is Clojure CLR production ready? Yes, I have been using it in production for about 2 years now. * Do its version numbers correspond to the core Clojure version numbers? (would it be fair to say the Java version is the core version) It's fair to say that the Java is the core version, but Dave Miller (the ClojureCLR maintainer) does a pretty good job of keeping it up to date with the Java version. * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? It is feasible if you put the effort into testing and writing the code correctly, but currently I don't think cljx supports ClojureCLR - you'd probably need to add that functionality yourself. * How good is the Visual Studio support for Clojure? I use emacs and *inferior-lisp* and am pretty happy with them so I can't comment on the Visual Studio workflow. * Does Leiningen work? There is Shantanu's lein plugin and I've tried to do a proof of concept nlein, but there really isn't the equivalent thing in ClojureCLR. I mostly deploy my .clj files as embedded resources in C# DLL's and have C# call into Clojure to bootstrap things. I'm sure other people use other strategies. * Are there any significant pitfalls to be aware of? Not as many libraries are available and you'll have to do a fair amount of groundwork yourself. Startup time is similar to the JVM verison. Overall, once I got past the initial hurdles, I found the environment to be quite stable and a huge productivity boost. I would definitely recommend ClojureCLR for projects with a big existing .NET code base. For new projects, I do usually go with JVM Clojure mainly for access to more libraries and IDE's. At the time when I started using ClojureCLR our team was heavily invested in .NET so it made a lot of sense and was definitely well worth it... Be sure to check out the ClojureCLR google group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/clojure-clr On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 10:38:58 AM UTC-5, Adrian Mowat wrote: Hi All, We are using Clojure on the JVM but one of our .Net developers has asked me whether I have considered using it on the CLR. I haven't tried doing it so I wondered if anyone can share any experiences using Clojure on the CLR? A quick google search suggests the project is still active but not especially vibrant (current version 1.4, last commit 24 days ago) but maybe that's unfair. I'm broadly interested in the following... * Is Clojure CLR production ready? * Do its version numbers correspond to the core Clojure version numbers? (would it be fair to say the Java version is the core version) * Is it sensible to think in terms of writing platform independent code in the same way as we do with cljx files in ClojureScript? * How good is the Visual Studio support for Clojure? * Does Leiningen work? * Are there any significant pitfalls to be aware of? Any other comments would be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks Adrian -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
