Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

valky...@phmp.se: <19f31e7e5cdf310b9afa91f577997...@phmp.se>: >I think you misunderstood what I wrote, >if perfect play on 9x9 is 6000 Elo, then if the value function is 3000 >Elo and MC eval is 2000 Elo with 1 second thinking time then it might >be that the combination of a value function and

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

I think you misunderstood what I wrote, if perfect play on 9x9 is 6000 Elo, then if the value function is 3000 Elo and MC eval is 2000 Elo with 1 second thinking time then it might be that the combination of a value function and MC eval ends up being 2700 Elo. It could also be that it ends up

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

DCNNs are not magic but just non-linear continuous function approximators with finite freedom and we can provide up to 10^8 samples (board positions) in practice. Why do most people believe VN can approximate (perfect or near perfect) value function? What do they estimate the complexity of

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

-independent AlphaZero framework. I won't be using playouts in shogi, so I am focusing on optimizing search without rollouts. Rémi - Mail original - De: "Gian-Carlo Pascutto" <g...@sjeng.org> À: computer-go@computer-go.org Envoyé: Lundi 5 Mars 2018 14:04:51 Objet: Re: [Computer

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

At 06:31 AM 3/5/2018, valky...@phmp.se wrote: >My guess is that there is some kind of threshold depending on the relative >strength of MC eval and the value function of the NN. My experiments suggest it's better to train with much longer MCTS time than will be used in actual play, so the MCTS

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

On 5/03/2018 12:28, valky...@phmp.se wrote: > Remi twittered more details here (see the discussion with gghideki: > > https://twitter.com/Remi_Coulom/status/969936332205318144 Thank you. So Remi gave up on rollouts as well. Interesting "difference of opinion" there with Zen. Last time I tested

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

Remi twittered more details here (see the discussion with gghideki: https://twitter.com/Remi_Coulom/status/969936332205318144 On 2018-03-05 10:16, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: On 28-02-18 07:13, Rémi Coulom wrote: Hi, I have just connected the newest version of Crazy Stone to CGOS. It is

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

On 28-02-18 07:13, Rémi Coulom wrote: > Hi, > > I have just connected the newest version of Crazy Stone to CGOS. It > is based on the AlphaZero approach. In that regard, are you still using Monte Carlo playouts? -- GCP ___ Computer-go mailing list

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

> > - Mail original - > De: "David Wu" <lightvec...@gmail.com> > À: computer-go@computer-go.org > Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 20:04:11 > Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back > > > > > It's not even just liberties and semeai, it's also eye

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

: "David Wu" <lightvec...@gmail.com> À: computer-go@computer-go.org Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 20:04:11 Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back It's not even just liberties and semeai, it's also eyes. Consider for example a large dragon that has miai for 2 eyes in d

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

: "Hiroshi Yamashita" <y...@bd.mbn.or.jp> À: computer-go@computer-go.org Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 23:24:02 Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back Hi Remi, Wow, "Weights" is your engine. So my guess was right :-) In 9x9 CGOS, did you train in 9x9, or just use 19x

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

A guidline for CGOS users: Do self-play to pick-up few strongest programs at your site (never use CGOS for this purpose) and throw them into CGOS to evaluate their ratings among others. Please note that CGOS is the valueable shared resource for all developers. #We (mainly Hiroshi and me)

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

Hi Remi, Wow, "Weights" is your engine. So my guess was right :-) In 9x9 CGOS, did you train in 9x9, or just use 19x19 network? Weights_33_400 is stronger than Weights_40_400. Maybe it is because Weights_33_400 use CrazyStone's playout, and Weights_40_400 does not use? Thanks, Hiroshi

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

all part of the problem. You can't read a semeai from just the >> liberty-count information. >> >> I tried to be clever and find ways to propagate information along strings >> in the network. But all the techniques I tried make the network much >> slower. Adding mor

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

s I tried make the network much > slower. Adding more layers is simple and works. > > Rémi > > - Mail original - > De: "Darren Cook" <dar...@dcook.org> > À: computer-go@computer-go.org > Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 16:43:10 > Objet: Re: [Computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

er-go.org Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 16:43:10 Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back > Weights_31_3200 is 20 layers of 192, 3200 board evaluations per move > (no random playout). But it still has difficulties with very long > strings. My next network will be 40 layers of 256, like Mast

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

> Weights_31_3200 is 20 layers of 192, 3200 board evaluations per move > (no random playout). But it still has difficulties with very long > strings. My next network will be 40 layers of 256, like Master. "long strings" here means solidly connected stones? The 192 vs. 256 is the number of 3x3

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

original - De: "Peter Wen" <pe...@whitehalmos.org> À: computer-go@computer-go.org Envoyé: Mercredi 28 Février 2018 14:38:01 Objet: Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back Hi Hiroshi, I've turned off half of the LZ instances and hopefully Hideki will run Zen again. The various

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

Disclaimer: I only run the LZ-0xx-p1600-t1-r1 bots. On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:38 AM, Peter Wen wrote: > Hi Hiroshi, > > I've turned off half of the LZ instances and hopefully Hideki will run Zen > again. The various versions of Zen were the most useful high ranking >

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

Hi Hiroshi, I've turned off half of the LZ instances and hopefully Hideki will run Zen again. The various versions of Zen were the most useful high ranking anchors on CGOS. There have been many changes to LZ's engine supposed to make it stronger, so I'd like to know if the ratings are actually

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

No Zen on CGOS is pity. To LZ-0xx-p1600-t1-r1 author, I think LZ-073-p1600-t1-r1 has BayesElo already. From LeelaZero page, 73 2018-02-05 23:0654bfb7b8 LZ-54bfb7-t1-p1600, BayesElo is 2903. Recalculating CGOS rating is not essential. And too many same kind bots running makes many

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

Welcome back Remi! On the 19x19 cgos, recently many LeelaZeros are running. This flood is making CGOS less useful and so I'll reconnect Zen after the flooding ends. Sorry for inconvinience. Hideki Remi Coulom: <1656424330.7641525.1519798424452.javamail.r...@spooler6-g27.priv.proxad.net>:

Re: [Computer-go] Crazy Stone is back

I've been on a forced break from go programming since last August, but I hope to get back to it soon. David -Original Message- From: Computer-go [mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Rémi Coulom Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:14 PM To: