Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 10:24:48 -0800, Nikolaus Rath wrote: >On Nov 11 2015, Marc Haber wrote: >> Once and for all we're doing _SOMETHING_ right, let's keep it that >> way. > >I think what Debian is doing right is that it tracks and notifies about

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Le 11/11/2015 21:58, Jean-Christophe Dubacq a écrit : > I don't even want to speak about the /etc files that act as cache data > and config mixed together (I am looking at you, CUPS). You can also find database in text files with a checksum so you cannot modify them by hand (I am looking at the

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 2:47 AM, Josh Triplett wrote: > While I still think etckeeper makes sense (and works even better) with > only admin changes kept in /etc, I'd certainly love it if I could tell > exactly what's *unique* about a given system by looking at the tiny > handful of files in /etc.

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Marc Haber wrote: On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 21:58:13 +0100, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: >[ ? 11/11/2015 18:14 ] [ ? Marc Haber ] >> Once and for all we're doing _SOMETHING_ right, let's keep it that >> way. >I

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 11:08:04PM +0100, Vincent Danjean wrote: You can also find database in text files with a checksum so you cannot modify them by hand (I am looking at the cn=config slapd database here). In a future slapd revision I hope to move those to /var, as they are in practice

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

[ ⏰ 11/11/2015 23:28 ] [ ✎ Jeroen Dekkers ] > Documentation should be put in /usr/share/doc, not in /etc. I always > find it annoying to have to review lots of comment changes in > configuration files during upgrades instead of simply the options that > actually changed. With big config files it

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Nov 11 2015, Marc Haber wrote: > Once and for all we're doing _SOMETHING_ right, let's keep it that > way. I think what Debian is doing right is that it tracks and notifies about changes in configuration files. But that doesn't mean we have implemented it in the

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Josselin Mouette wrote: > Marc Haber wrote: > On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 21:58:13 +0100, Jean-Christophe Dubacq > wrote: > >[ ? 11/11/2015 18:14 ] [ ? Marc Haber ] > >> Once and for all we're doing _SOMETHING_ right, let's keep

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On 11/11/15 10:37, Marc Haber wrote: > On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 18:24:52 -0800, Josh Triplett > wrote: >> Vincent Danjean wrote: > I violently disagree. We have always done it the other way, and had > the advantage that our conffile handling (which used to be and IMO > still is

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 18:24:52 -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: >Vincent Danjean wrote: >> Le 10/11/2015 14:49, Andrew Shadura a écrit : >> > I think you can try to do it systemd way: keep the default configuration >> > in /usr/lib, and leave /etc for local user configuration

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:04:01 +0100, Alec Leamas wrote: > BTW, note that the /etc/systemd/system local overrides don't need to be > complete files, just the things locally changed. systemd merges the /lib > and /etc files to the actual unit. To expand on Marc's example, let's say

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 13:59:24 +0100, Mat wrote: >This is one strong key point of >Debian versus most other distribs. Please don't change that. For systemd, this change is already done. Noone cared. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies,

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Ole Streicher wrote: > Paul Wise writes: >> I expect systemd users in other distributions would appreciate a >> feature to track changes in the default configuration too. > > Many programs have builtin defaults that are used when they are not > overwritten by a

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:29:31 +0100, Ole Streicher wrote: >Paul Wise writes: >> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: >> I expect systemd users in other distributions would appreciate a >> feature to track changes in the default configuration

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Paul Wise writes: > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: > I expect systemd users in other distributions would appreciate a > feature to track changes in the default configuration too. Many programs have builtin defaults that are used when they are not

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Jakub Wilk wrote: > Also, how I am supposed to know that I can customize /etc/foobar.conf > if /etc/foobar.conf doesn't even exist? Because you want to modify the behavior of foobar, and "man foobar" references foobar.conf. - Josh Triplett

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:38:18 +0100, Tom H wrote: >systemd isn't the first package to allow/promote shipping distro >settings in "/lib" or "/usr/lib" and overriding them via "/etc"; udev >and polkit/policykit have behaved like this for a long time. Pötteringware, of course.

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:55:27 +0100 Marc Haber wrote: > On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:38:18 +0100, Tom H wrote: > >systemd isn't the first package to allow/promote shipping distro > >settings in "/lib" or "/usr/lib" and overriding them via "/etc"; udev

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

* Vincent Danjean , 2015-11-11, 01:03: I think you can try to do it systemd way: keep the default configuration in /usr/lib, and leave /etc for local user configuration which overrides the default config. Not sure how good is this idea, I hope others can comment on this.

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

+1 Debian has been doing a really good job at managing configuration files for years (dpkg, ucf). It gives the sysadmin complete visibility on changes and flexibility in actions. This is one strong key point of Debian versus most other distribs. Please don't change that. On 11/11/15 10:37, Marc

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On 11/11/15 13:28, Marc Haber wrote: On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:04:01 +0100, Alec Leamas wrote: On 11/11/15 10:37, Marc Haber wrote: On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 18:24:52 -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: Vincent Danjean wrote: I violently disagree. We have

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Tom H writes: > systemd isn't the first package to allow/promote shipping distro > settings in "/lib" or "/usr/lib" and overriding them via "/etc"; udev > and polkit/policykit have behaved like this for a long time. There's > also "/usr/lib/sysctl.d/" where a distro ship

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Ian Jackson wrote: > That doesn't mean we shouldn't think about whether we can transition > to a better arrangement for systemd in Debian. I expect systemd users in other distributions would appreciate a feature to track changes in the default configuration too.

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Bjørn Mork writes: > "/usr/lib/sysctl.d/" is systemd specific. Dropping files there won't do > anything unless you run the systemd-sysctl service. Sorry, should have researched this better first. sysctl WILL use "/usr/lib/sysctl.d/" if it exists. procps won't create it, but

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:38:42 +, Ian Jackson wrote: >Anyway, that systemd.deb does it wrong, definitely doesn't mean that >we should repeat the same mistake for other programs. Agreed. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:04:01 +0100, Alec Leamas wrote: >On 11/11/15 10:37, Marc Haber wrote: >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 18:24:52 -0800, Josh Triplett >> wrote: >>> Vincent Danjean wrote: > >> I violently disagree. We have always done it the other way,

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Marc Haber wrote: > > I violently disagree. We have always done it the other way, and had > the advantage that our conffile handling (which used to be and IMO > still is far superior to everything else other distributions have) >

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Marc Haber writes ("Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]"): > On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 13:59:24 +0100, Mat <m...@parad0x.org> wrote: > >This is one strong key point of > >Debian versus most other distribs. Please don'

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

2015-11-11 1:03 GMT+01:00 Vincent Danjean : > Hi, > > Le 10/11/2015 14:49, Andrew Shadura a écrit : >> I think you can try to do it systemd way: keep the default configuration >> in /usr/lib, and leave /etc for local user configuration which overrides >> the default config.

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

[ ⏰ 11/11/2015 18:14 ] [ ✎ Marc Haber ] > Once and for all we're doing _SOMETHING_ right, let's keep it that > way. I do not agree that we are doing something exactly right. I would like /etc to only contain what I changed (as a sysadmin), and nothing else ; AND I would like to be warned if

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 21:58:13 +0100, Jean-Christophe Dubacq wrote: >[ ? 11/11/2015 18:14 ] [ ? Marc Haber ] >> Once and for all we're doing _SOMETHING_ right, let's keep it that >> way. >I do not agree that we are doing something exactly right. I would like >/etc to only contain

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Bjørn Mork wrote: > Tom H writes: >> >> systemd isn't the first package to allow/promote shipping distro >> settings in "/lib" or "/usr/lib" and overriding them via "/etc"; udev >> and polkit/policykit have behaved like this for

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Bjørn Mork wrote: > Bjørn Mork writes: >> >> "/usr/lib/sysctl.d/" is systemd specific. Dropping files there won't do >> anything unless you run the systemd-sysctl service. > > Sorry, should have researched this better first.

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

At Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:14:26 +0100, Marc Haber wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 17:29:31 +0100, Ole Streicher > wrote: > >Paul Wise writes: > >> I expect systemd users in other distributions would appreciate a > >> feature to track changes in the default

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Vincent Danjean wrote: > Le 10/11/2015 14:49, Andrew Shadura a écrit : > > I think you can try to do it systemd way: keep the default configuration > > in /usr/lib, and leave /etc for local user configuration which overrides > > the default config. > > > > Not sure how good is this idea, I hope

Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

Hi, Le 10/11/2015 14:49, Andrew Shadura a écrit : > I think you can try to do it systemd way: keep the default configuration > in /usr/lib, and leave /etc for local user configuration which overrides > the default config. > > Not sure how good is this idea, I hope others can comment on this.

Re: Putting default config files in /usr [was; (newbie) Disruptive LIRC package update.]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Josh Triplett wrote: > As for versioning of changes to the defaults, I hope someday to see all > package contents stored and distributed via version control, making it > easy to track changes even across versions I haven't actually installed > on my system. The