Re: [DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Jeremy Hanna]

I'd like to close out this thread.  As Benjamin notes, we'll have a single 
subproject for all of the drivers and with 3 PMC members overseeing the 
subproject as outlined in the linked subproject governance procedures.  However 
we'll introduce the drivers to that subproject one by one out of necessity.

I'll open up a vote thread shortly so that we can move forward on the CEP and 
subproject approach.

> On May 30, 2023, at 7:32 AM, Benjamin Lerer  wrote:
> 
> The idea was to have a single driver sub-project. Even if the code bases are 
> different we believe that it is important to keep the drivers together to 
> retain cohesive API semantics and make sure they have similar functionality 
> and feature support.
> In this scenario we would need only 3 PMC members for the governance. I am 
> willing to be one of them.
> 
> For the committers, my understanding, based on subproject governance 
> procedures, 
>  was that 
> they should be proposed directly to the PMC members.
> 
>> Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each 
>> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver 
>> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ? 
> 
> The goal of the CEP is simply to ensure that the community is in favor of the 
> donation. Nothing more. 
> The plan is to introduce the drivers, one by one. Each driver donation will 
> need to be accepted first by the PMC members, as it is the case for any 
> donation. Therefore the PMC should have full control on the pace at which new 
> drivers are accepted.
>   
> 
> Le mar. 30 mai 2023 à 12:22, Josh McKenzie  > a écrit :
>>> Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each 
>>> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver 
>>> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ? 
>> Curious to hear on this as well. There's 2 implications from the CEP as 
>> written:
>> 
>> 1. The Java and Python drivers hold special importance due to their language 
>> proximity and/or project's dependence upon them 
>> (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation#CEP8:DatastaxDriversDonation-Scope)
>> 2. Datastax is explicitly offering all 7 drivers for donation 
>> (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation#CEP8:DatastaxDriversDonation-Goals)
>> 
>> This is the most complex contribution via CEP thus far from a governance 
>> perspective; I suggest we chart a bespoke path to navigate this. Having a 
>> top level indication of "the CEP is approved" logically separate from a 
>> per-language indication of "the project is ready to absorb this language 
>> driver now" makes sense to me. This could look like:
>> 
>> * Vote on the CEP itself
>> * Per language (processing one at a time):
>> * identify 3 PMC members willing to take on the governance role for the 
>> language driver
>> * Identify 2 contributors who are active on a given driver and stepping 
>> forward for a committer role on the driver
>> * Vote on inclusion of that language driver in the project + commit bits
>> * Integrate that driver into the project ecosystem (build, ci, docs, etc)
>> 
>> Not sure how else we could handle committers / contributors / PMC members 
>> other than on a per-driver basis.
>> 
>> On Tue, May 30, 2023, at 5:36 AM, Mick Semb Wever wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much Jeremy and Greg (+others) for all the hard work on this.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the 
>>> process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each 
>>> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver 
>>> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ? 
>>> 
>>> Are there key committers and contributors on each driver that want to be 
>>> involved?  Should they be listed before the vote?
>>> We also need three PMC for the new subproject.  Are we to assign these 
>>> before the vote?  
>>> 
>>> 
>> 

Re: [DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Benjamin Lerer]

The idea was to have a single driver sub-project. Even if the code bases
are different we believe that it is important to keep the drivers together
to retain cohesive API semantics and make sure they have similar
functionality and feature support.
In this scenario we would need only 3 PMC members for the governance. I am
willing to be one of them.

For the committers, my understanding, based on subproject governance
procedures,
 was that
they should be proposed directly to the PMC members.

Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each
> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver
> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ?
>

The goal of the CEP is simply to ensure that the community is in favor of
the donation. Nothing more.
The plan is to introduce the drivers, one by one. Each driver donation will
need to be accepted first by the PMC members, as it is the case for any
donation. Therefore the PMC should have full control on the pace at which
new drivers are accepted.


Le mar. 30 mai 2023 à 12:22, Josh McKenzie  a écrit :

> Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each
> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver
> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ?
>
> Curious to hear on this as well. There's 2 implications from the CEP as
> written:
>
> 1. The Java and Python drivers hold special importance due to their
> language proximity and/or project's dependence upon them (
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation#CEP8:DatastaxDriversDonation-Scope
> )
> 2. Datastax is explicitly offering all 7 drivers for donation (
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation#CEP8:DatastaxDriversDonation-Goals
> )
>
> This is the most complex contribution via CEP thus far from a governance
> perspective; I suggest we chart a bespoke path to navigate this. Having a
> top level indication of "the CEP is approved" logically separate from a
> per-language indication of "the project is ready to absorb this language
> driver now" makes sense to me. This could look like:
>
> * Vote on the CEP itself
> * Per language (processing one at a time):
> * identify 3 PMC members willing to take on the governance role for
> the language driver
> * Identify 2 contributors who are active on a given driver and
> stepping forward for a committer role on the driver
> * Vote on inclusion of that language driver in the project + commit
> bits
> * Integrate that driver into the project ecosystem (build, ci, docs,
> etc)
>
> Not sure how else we could handle committers / contributors / PMC members
> other than on a per-driver basis.
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023, at 5:36 AM, Mick Semb Wever wrote:
>
>
> Thank you so much Jeremy and Greg (+others) for all the hard work on this.
>
>
>
> At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the
> process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.
>
>
>
> Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each
> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver
> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ?
>
> Are there key committers and contributors on each driver that want to be
> involved?  Should they be listed before the vote?
> We also need three PMC for the new subproject.  Are we to assign these
> before the vote?
>
>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Josh McKenzie]

> Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each 
> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver 
> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ? 
Curious to hear on this as well. There's 2 implications from the CEP as written:

1. The Java and Python drivers hold special importance due to their language 
proximity and/or project's dependence upon them 
(https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation#CEP8:DatastaxDriversDonation-Scope)
2. Datastax is explicitly offering all 7 drivers for donation 
(https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation#CEP8:DatastaxDriversDonation-Goals)

This is the most complex contribution via CEP thus far from a governance 
perspective; I suggest we chart a bespoke path to navigate this. Having a top 
level indication of "the CEP is approved" logically separate from a 
per-language indication of "the project is ready to absorb this language driver 
now" makes sense to me. This could look like:

* Vote on the CEP itself
* Per language (processing one at a time):
* identify 3 PMC members willing to take on the governance role for the 
language driver
* Identify 2 contributors who are active on a given driver and stepping 
forward for a committer role on the driver
* Vote on inclusion of that language driver in the project + commit bits
* Integrate that driver into the project ecosystem (build, ci, docs, etc)

Not sure how else we could handle committers / contributors / PMC members other 
than on a per-driver basis.

On Tue, May 30, 2023, at 5:36 AM, Mick Semb Wever wrote:
> 
> Thank you so much Jeremy and Greg (+others) for all the hard work on this.
>  
>> 
>> At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the 
>> process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.
> 
> 
> Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each 
> driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver 
> subproject and can move on to accepting the next ? 
> 
> Are there key committers and contributors on each driver that want to be 
> involved?  Should they be listed before the vote?
> We also need three PMC for the new subproject.  Are we to assign these before 
> the vote?  
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Mick Semb Wever]

Thank you so much Jeremy and Greg (+others) for all the hard work on this.



> At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the
> process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.
>


Is the vote for the CEP to be for all drivers, but we will introduce each
driver one by one?  What determines when we are comfortable with one driver
subproject and can move on to accepting the next ?

Are there key committers and contributors on each driver that want to be
involved?  Should they be listed before the vote?
We also need three PMC for the new subproject.  Are we to assign these
before the vote?

Re: [DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Abe Ratnofsky]

Sharing the same sentiment. Thank you for all your efforts on getting this 
ready to contribute!

> On May 26, 2023, at 9:59 AM, Francisco Guerrero  wrote:
> 
> I second Dinesh's sentiment. I'm looking forward to this contribution.
> 
> On 2023/05/26 16:29:12 Dinesh Joshi wrote:
>> This is exciting. Thank you for all your hard work on getting ICLAs from
>> contributors. I am in favor of moving forward.  
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 26, 2023, at 5:54 AM, Jeremy Hanna 
>>> wrote:  
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> To add to a somewhat crowded [DISCUSS] party, I'd like to restart the
>>> discussion around CEP-8.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is the original thread from July 2020:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At the time, several good points were discussed and the CEP has been updated
>>> with many of them.  One point in particular was that we should start with
>>> the DataStax Java driver as it is the reference implementation of the CQL
>>> protocol, a dependency of the project, and the most used of the 7 drivers
>>> discussed.  Other points were about package naming evolution and DataStax
>>> specific functionality.  I believe everyone agreed that we should take the
>>> first step of contributing the drivers as-is to minimize user disruption.
>>> That way we get through the legal and procedural process for the first
>>> driver.  Then we can proceed with discussing how it will be managed and by
>>> whom.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As the next step in donating the Java driver to the project and as we talked
>>> about at ApacheCon last year, we needed to verify that we had all of the
>>> CLAs for all of the codebase.  Over the last year, Greg, Benjamin, Mick,
>>> Josh, Scott, and I have been tracking down all of the contributors of the
>>> DataStax Java driver that had not signed the DataStax CLA and asked them to
>>> please sign that one or the ASF CLA.  After having discussed the CLAs with
>>> the PMC and ASF legal, we believe we are ready to proceed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the
>>> process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [| [CEP-8: Datastax Drivers Donation - CASSANDRA - Apache Software
>>> Foundation](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)[cwiki.apache.org
>>>  
>>> ](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)|
>>> [](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)
>>>   
>>> ---|---  
>>> 
>>> ](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeremy

Re: [DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Francisco Guerrero]

I second Dinesh's sentiment. I'm looking forward to this contribution.

On 2023/05/26 16:29:12 Dinesh Joshi wrote:
> This is exciting. Thank you for all your hard work on getting ICLAs from
> contributors. I am in favor of moving forward.  
>   
> 
> >  
> > On May 26, 2023, at 5:54 AM, Jeremy Hanna 
> > wrote:  
> >  
> >
> 
> > To add to a somewhat crowded [DISCUSS] party, I'd like to restart the
> > discussion around CEP-8.
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > This is the original thread from July 2020:
> > 
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > At the time, several good points were discussed and the CEP has been updated
> > with many of them.  One point in particular was that we should start with
> > the DataStax Java driver as it is the reference implementation of the CQL
> > protocol, a dependency of the project, and the most used of the 7 drivers
> > discussed.  Other points were about package naming evolution and DataStax
> > specific functionality.  I believe everyone agreed that we should take the
> > first step of contributing the drivers as-is to minimize user disruption.
> > That way we get through the legal and procedural process for the first
> > driver.  Then we can proceed with discussing how it will be managed and by
> > whom.
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > As the next step in donating the Java driver to the project and as we talked
> > about at ApacheCon last year, we needed to verify that we had all of the
> > CLAs for all of the codebase.  Over the last year, Greg, Benjamin, Mick,
> > Josh, Scott, and I have been tracking down all of the contributors of the
> > DataStax Java driver that had not signed the DataStax CLA and asked them to
> > please sign that one or the ASF CLA.  After having discussed the CLAs with
> > the PMC and ASF legal, we believe we are ready to proceed.
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the
> > process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > [| [CEP-8: Datastax Drivers Donation - CASSANDRA - Apache Software
> > Foundation](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)[cwiki.apache.org](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)|
> > [](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)
> >   
> > ---|---  
> >
> > ](https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation)
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> > Jeremy
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Dinesh Joshi]

This is exciting. Thank you for all your hard work on getting ICLAs from contributors. I am in favor of moving forward.On May 26, 2023, at 5:54 AM, Jeremy Hanna  wrote:To add to a somewhat crowded [DISCUSS] party, I'd like to restart the discussion around CEP-8.This is the original thread from July 2020: https://lists.apache.org/thread/01pljcncyjyo467l5orh8nf9okrh7oxmAt the time, several good points were discussed and the CEP has been updated with many of them.  One point in particular was that we should start with the DataStax Java driver as it is the reference implementation of the CQL protocol, a dependency of the project, and the most used of the 7 drivers discussed.  Other points were about package naming evolution and DataStax specific functionality.  I believe everyone agreed that we should take the first step of contributing the drivers as-is to minimize user disruption.  That way we get through the legal and procedural process for the first driver.  Then we can proceed with discussing how it will be managed and by whom.As the next step in donating the Java driver to the project and as we talked about at ApacheCon last year, we needed to verify that we had all of the CLAs for all of the codebase.  Over the last year, Greg, Benjamin, Mick, Josh, Scott, and I have been tracking down all of the contributors of the DataStax Java driver that had not signed the DataStax CLA and asked them to please sign that one or the ASF CLA.  After having discussed the CLAs with the PMC and ASF legal, we believe we are ready to proceed.At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.CEP-8: Datastax Drivers Donation - CASSANDRA - Apache Software Foundationcwiki.apache.orgJeremy

[DISCUSS] CEP-8 Drivers Donation - take 2

[Jeremy Hanna]

To add to a somewhat crowded [DISCUSS] party, I'd like to restart the 
discussion around CEP-8.

This is the original thread from July 2020: 
https://lists.apache.org/thread/01pljcncyjyo467l5orh8nf9okrh7oxm

At the time, several good points were discussed and the CEP has been updated 
with many of them.  One point in particular was that we should start with the 
DataStax Java driver as it is the reference implementation of the CQL protocol, 
a dependency of the project, and the most used of the 7 drivers discussed.  
Other points were about package naming evolution and DataStax specific 
functionality.  I believe everyone agreed that we should take the first step of 
contributing the drivers as-is to minimize user disruption.  That way we get 
through the legal and procedural process for the first driver.  Then we can 
proceed with discussing how it will be managed and by whom.

As the next step in donating the Java driver to the project and as we talked 
about at ApacheCon last year, we needed to verify that we had all of the CLAs 
for all of the codebase.  Over the last year, Greg, Benjamin, Mick, Josh, 
Scott, and I have been tracking down all of the contributors of the DataStax 
Java driver that had not signed the DataStax CLA and asked them to please sign 
that one or the ASF CLA.  After having discussed the CLAs with the PMC and ASF 
legal, we believe we are ready to proceed.

At this point, we'd like to propose CEP-8 for consideration, starting the 
process to accept the DataStax Java driver as an official ASF project.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+Datastax+Drivers+Donation

Jeremy