Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-24 Thread Daniel Holbert
Jean-Marc Desperrier wrote: This is something that I've seen also, and it makes me worried that the current Fx solution *doesn't* really work as advertised. The people see the warning, and the next minute, they start IE to access the site. Think about it : Instead of protecting them, Fx

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-24 Thread Thorsten Becker
Nelson B Bolyard schrieb: I think the solution that Jean-Marc outlined above would make some sense: It would make it a bit easier to visit certain sites, but disturb permanently if someone visits a site that has no trust anchor in firefox. There's a great deal of evidence, and consensus

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-24 Thread Jean-Marc Desperrier
Thorsten Becker wrote: Nelson B Bolyard schrieb: I think the solution that Jean-Marc outlined above would make some sense: It would make it a bit easier to visit certain sites, but disturb permanently if someone visits a site that has no trust anchor in firefox. There's a great deal of

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-23 Thread Thorsten Becker
Jean-Marc Desperrier schrieb: So the solution I'd be in favor of is : - Declare the current SSL error screen a failure - Let people go through the SSL error screen easily, just like in Fx 2 - After they have gone though the SSL error screen and as long as they stay on this SSL site, display

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Thorsten Becker
Steve schrieb: May I ask why a university didn't just obtain another SSL certificate? I mean you can obtain SSL certificates (RapidSSL is ~$20) cheap now. We are on only one of almost 200 universities and research institutes in Germany that rely on services provided by the Deutsche

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Thorsten Becker
Steve schrieb: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] says... Think about it : Instead of protecting them, Fx has pushed them to take a decision that heightens their risk level, it would have been more secure to let them go though the warning and access the site with Fx rather

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Thorsten Becker
Eddy, Eddy Nigg schrieb: I think one CA in public discussion per time just fine, however the overall throughput could be accelerated. That would allow for a new CA every two weeks or so. that's an excellent idea to schedule the start of a public discussion phase every two weeks.

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Eddy Nigg
Thorsten Becker: Eddy Nigg schrieb: I think one CA in public discussion per time just fine, however the overall throughput could be accelerated. That would allow for a new CA every two weeks or so. that's an excellent idea to schedule the start of a public discussion phase every two weeks.

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Steve
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], tb-news-2006 @arcor.de says... We are on only one of almost 200 universities and research institutes in Germany that rely on services provided by the Deutsche Forschungsnetz I know, however if you look at the costs of a new certificate vs. the costs involved

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Thorsten Becker
Steve schrieb: I know, however if you look at the costs of a new certificate vs. the costs involved in training, waiting, applying workaround; purchasing a new certificate would make sense. It would have made sense over a year ago when the whole process was started - If Mozilla had said:

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Thorsten Becker
Eddy Nigg schrieb: Thorsten Becker: that's an excellent idea to schedule the start of a public discussion phase every two weeks. Additionally it would be great to have a public queue, where every request that has passed the information gathering process would be placed. So every CA would

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Eddy Nigg
Thorsten Becker: It would have made sense over a year ago when the whole process was started - If Mozilla had said: We wont get it in for over a year. But at that time it was never clear that it would take more than a year. Ohoommm, please note that the audit of T-Systems was completed only

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Thorsten Becker
Eddy, just to make it clear: I'm not working for a CA, I am just a user. Eddy Nigg schrieb: Ohoommm, please note that the audit of T-Systems was completed only at the end of the previous year, which is usually a bad time anyway (holidays, vacations etc). Subsequently the process was

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Eddy Nigg
Thorsten Becker: There has been an earlier audit. Gerv raised concerns about that audit in comment #12, they were adressed in comment #13. In july all information were gathered and in august the information was finally confirmed complete. IMHO the public discussion phase could have started

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-18 Thread Jean-Marc Desperrier
Steve wrote: In article[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] says... Think about it : Instead of protecting them, Fx has pushed them to take a decision that heightens their risk level, it would have been more secure to let them go though the warning and access the site with Fx rather than

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Steve
May I ask why a university didn't just obtain another SSL certificate? I mean you can obtain SSL certificates (RapidSSL is ~$20) cheap now. ___ dev-tech-crypto mailing list dev-tech-crypto@lists.mozilla.org

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Rob Stradling
On Wednesday 16 July 2008 15:08:15 Frank Hecker wrote: ... We are doing what we can. However by design we do not simply rubber-stamp CA requests. We have an official policy which was developed through a process of community consultation, and we follow a similar process of community discussion

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Eddy Nigg
Rob Stradling: On Wednesday 16 July 2008 15:08:15 Frank Hecker wrote: ... We are doing what we can. However by design we do not simply rubber-stamp CA requests. We have an official policy which was developed through a process of community consultation, and we follow a similar process of

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Jean-Marc Desperrier
Thorsten Becker wrote: [...] I'm currently seeing more and more Firefox users migrating to version 3.0. [...] Firefox is quite harsh about unknown certificates. The reactions of the users are either of: [...] -switching the browser the latter more likely than the former. Consequently we

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Frank Hecker
Rob Stradling wrote: Frank, is there any reason why you can't have multiple candidate CAs having their public discussion periods simultaneously? No reason at all; in fact, technically we have two in public discussion right now (GlobalSign and T-Systems). The major bottleneck is collecting

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Rob Stradling
On Thursday 17 July 2008 13:33:04 Frank Hecker wrote: Rob Stradling wrote: Frank, is there any reason why you can't have multiple candidate CAs having their public discussion periods simultaneously? No reason at all; Thanks Frank. That's good to hear. in fact, technically we have two in

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Frank Hecker
Rob Stradling wrote: Frank, in Bug #421946 Comment #15 you said: I'll proceed with the first public comment period once I figure out where this request sits in the queue relative to other similar requests. If the public comment/discussion periods are not the major bottleneck, then can you

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Rob Stradling
On Thursday 17 July 2008 16:50:50 Frank Hecker wrote: Rob Stradling wrote: Frank, in Bug #421946 Comment #15 you said: I'll proceed with the first public comment period once I figure out where this request sits in the queue relative to other similar requests. If the public

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Eddy Nigg
Frank Hecker: P.S. Incidentally, I have no problem whatsoever with CAs pinging me directly (via email or phone or whatever) to remind me that their requests need attention. Please feel free to do that if ever you should need to. Frank, I think you mentioned in the past the ECC requests are

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-17 Thread Eddy Nigg
Frank Hecker: Eddy Nigg wrote: Frank Hecker: P.S. Incidentally, I have no problem whatsoever with CAs pinging me directly (via email or phone or whatever) to remind me that their requests need attention. Please feel free to do that if ever you should need to. Frank, I think you mentioned

Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-16 Thread Thorsten Becker
Hello, I'm responsible for a university site in Germany that is SSL secured, with a certificate issued by a CA which is trusted by T-Systems. The T-Systems cert is not (yet) included in firefox, the details can be seen in Bug 378882. I'm currently seeing more and more Firefox users migrating

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-16 Thread Frank Hecker
Thorsten Becker wrote: I'm responsible for a university site in Germany that is SSL secured, with a certificate issued by a CA which is trusted by T-Systems. The T-Systems cert is not (yet) included in firefox, the details can be seen in Bug 378882. As it happens, I will be starting the

Re: Decline in firefox usage due to lacking CA certificates

2008-07-16 Thread Thorsten Becker
Frank Hecker wrote: As it happens, I will be starting the first public comment period for T-Systems today. That really is good news! We are doing what we can. However by design we do not simply rubber-stamp CA requests. We have an official policy which was developed through a process of