Re: 4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 10/10/2017 11:49 AM, Marcus wrote:

Am 10.10.2017 um 01:15 schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

Jim Jagielski wrote:

I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
way straight to 4.5.0...
Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
we drop some older supported platforms.


We should focus on 4.1.4 until the release process is complete. And 
then we should start a proper discussion (that I'll be very happy to 
participate in, since my list of pending, realistic, proposals is 
getting longer and longer!) about the next release.


strong +1

To be honest, we have enough to do to get our 4.1.x release out. 
Therefore I doubt we should invest a single minute into the version 
numbering for the next but one release as it is not yet relevant.


my 2 ct.

Marcus


+1

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Re: 4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Marcus]

Am 10.10.2017 um 01:15 schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

Jim Jagielski wrote:

I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
way straight to 4.5.0...
Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
we drop some older supported platforms.


We should focus on 4.1.4 until the release process is complete. And then 
we should start a proper discussion (that I'll be very happy to 
participate in, since my list of pending, realistic, proposals is 
getting longer and longer!) about the next release.


strong +1

To be honest, we have enough to do to get our 4.1.x release out. 
Therefore I doubt we should invest a single minute into the version 
numbering for the next but one release as it is not yet relevant.


my 2 ct.

Marcus


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Re: 4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Peter kovacs]

4.2.0 the idea is we could reference it to Douglas Adams answer 42.
Which is kinda funny.
However I would like to postpone the discussion towards 20ties since I have 
.ore time then. Very unselfish of me I know. ;)

All the best 
Peter 

Am 10. Oktober 2017 01:00:36 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski :
>I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
>way straight to 4.5.0...
>
>Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
>bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
>we drop some older supported platforms.
>
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Re: 4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

It is worth letting the idea “percolate” while 4.1.4 release proceeds to 
completion.

I like Jm’s thought. Announcing plans while announcing a release and then 
executing on it would be the the best AOO marketing possible. We proceed with 
whoever helps methodically.

My 2cts.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2017, at 7:15 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>> 
>> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
>>> way straight to 4.5.0...
>>> Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
>>> bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
>>> we drop some older supported platforms.
>> 
>> We should focus on 4.1.4 until the release process is complete.
> 
> It's called striking while the iron is hot ;)
> 
> 
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Re: 4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Jim Jagielski]

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 7:15 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
>> way straight to 4.5.0...
>> Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
>> bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
>> we drop some older supported platforms.
> 
> We should focus on 4.1.4 until the release process is complete.

It's called striking while the iron is hot ;)


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Re: 4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jim Jagielski wrote:

I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
way straight to 4.5.0...
Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
we drop some older supported platforms.


We should focus on 4.1.4 until the release process is complete. And then 
we should start a proper discussion (that I'll be very happy to 
participate in, since my list of pending, realistic, proposals is 
getting longer and longer!) about the next release.


Its outcome will define how big a scope 4.2.0 has. And at that point, we 
can see whether it is more appropriate to number it 4.2.0, or 5.0, or 
6.0, or 2018, or whatever. Until we don't know what goes into it, just 
tossing a number is a futile exercise.


If we don't have consensus on many changes, 4.2.0 will still be OK. If 
instead we have consensus on a significant number of changes, even 
numbering it 4.5.0 might be restrictive. As in all sane communities, 
this depends on discussion. I'm really looking forward to starting it 
next week.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Jim Jagielski]

I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
way straight to 4.5.0...

Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
we drop some older supported platforms.

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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Marcus]

Am 17.08.2017 um 14:06 schrieb Jim Jagielski:



On Aug 17, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

On 16/08/2017 Jim Jagielski wrote:

The build warnings and errors using any SDK older than 10.9 on trunk.


Is this a build requirement or will it affect end users too? I mean, does building 
with the 10.9 SDK imply that users using Mac OS X < 10.9 won't be able to run 
the program?



It does...

Now I haven't tried building w/ the 10.7 SDK simply because due to the build
flags (-Werror -Wdeprecated) when we bump into issues the build stops.
So we could work around those build issue, but that seem wonky to me.
It just seems wrong to have a new build system and then immediately
start crippling it to work with old systems. Alternatively, as the
VCL Quicktime issue shows, as we start updating some of the
actual code, these issues will start cropping up even more.

At some point we need to drop support for old systems... I had
assumed that 4.2.0 was our start in trying to free ourselves
from some of that kruft.


sure, this was always the plan: To re-think what we really need 
nowadays. E.g., no support for old *) systems.


*) What "old" and "system" means in detail for us needs of course tbd.

Marcus


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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Jim Jagielski]

> On Aug 17, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> On 16/08/2017 Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> The build warnings and errors using any SDK older than 10.9 on trunk.
> 
> Is this a build requirement or will it affect end users too? I mean, does 
> building with the 10.9 SDK imply that users using Mac OS X < 10.9 won't be 
> able to run the program?
> 

It does...

Now I haven't tried building w/ the 10.7 SDK simply because due to the build
flags (-Werror -Wdeprecated) when we bump into issues the build stops.
So we could work around those build issue, but that seem wonky to me.
It just seems wrong to have a new build system and then immediately
start crippling it to work with old systems. Alternatively, as the
VCL Quicktime issue shows, as we start updating some of the
actual code, these issues will start cropping up even more.

At some point we need to drop support for old systems... I had
assumed that 4.2.0 was our start in trying to free ourselves
from some of that kruft.


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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Rony G. Flatscher (Apache)]

On 17.08.2017 12:51, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 16/08/2017 Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> The build warnings and errors using any SDK older than 10.9 on trunk.
>
> Is this a build requirement or will it affect end users too? I mean, does 
> building with the 10.9
> SDK imply that users using Mac OS X < 10.9 won't be able to run the program?
The latest updates of Xcode and its clang may give you warnings like: 
"lisbstdc++ is deprecated;
move to libc++ with a minimum deployment target of OS X 10.9 [-Wdeprecated]". 
"OS X 10.9" nick name
is "Maverick" and was released on 2013-02-22.

Setting the environment variable "MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET=10.9" will usually 
make the build
unusable for earlier versions of MacOSX.

> A note: we'll have to make similar discussion for Linux too, as I said, but I 
> think it's more
> appropriate to focus on 4.1.4 for the time being. Still, if we accompany 
> 4.1.4 with a statement
> such as "This is the last OpenOffice version that is expected to work on 
> [list of outdated
> operating systems]" it could be useful to users.
---rony

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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 16/08/2017 Jim Jagielski wrote:

The build warnings and errors using any SDK older than 10.9 on trunk.


Is this a build requirement or will it affect end users too? I mean, 
does building with the 10.9 SDK imply that users using Mac OS X < 10.9 
won't be able to run the program?


A note: we'll have to make similar discussion for Linux too, as I said, 
but I think it's more appropriate to focus on 4.1.4 for the time being. 
Still, if we accompany 4.1.4 with a statement such as "This is the last 
OpenOffice version that is expected to work on [list of outdated 
operating systems]" it could be useful to users.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Jim Jagielski]

The build warnings and errors using any SDK older than 10.9 on trunk.

> On Aug 16, 2017, at 12:03 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> On 15/08/2017 Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> This was based on my understanding that starting w/ 4.2.0, AOO
>> required 10.9/Mavericks or greater.
> 
> Required based on what? On the current trunk code, on some architectural 
> limitations, on build environment? We are still receiving the occasional 
> mails of 10.6 users who can't run OpenOffice 4.1.x on their old Mac...
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 15/08/2017 Jim Jagielski wrote:

This was based on my understanding that starting w/ 4.2.0, AOO
required 10.9/Mavericks or greater.


Required based on what? On the current trunk code, on some architectural 
limitations, on build environment? We are still receiving the occasional 
mails of 10.6 users who can't run OpenOffice 4.1.x on their old Mac...


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Jim Jagielski]

This was based on my understanding that starting w/ 4.2.0, AOO
required 10.9/Mavericks or greater. If not correct, could someone
let me know :)

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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Peter kovacs]

Oh cool!

Am 15. August 2017 15:45:05 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski :
>I am looking at, for 4.2.0, having our target set to 10.9, instead
>of 10.7, which helps a lot.
>
>> On Aug 15, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Peter kovacs  wrote:
>> 
>> Boost has name collision with c++11.
>> Switch the standard of. Then you have better chances I think.
>> 
>> Am 15. August 2017 14:22:50 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski
>:
>>> Just starting replaying w/ building 4.2.0 on macOS and ran into
>>> this:
>>> 
>>>   error: no type named 'unique_ptr' in namespace 'std'
>>> 
>>> but the rub is that we for sure specify c++11 as we should:
>>> 
>>>
>/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang++
>>> -arch x86_64 -std=c++11 -arch x86_64 -o out/der_getint_unittest.o -c
>>> -O2 -fPIC  -fno-common -pipe -DDARWIN -DHAVE_STRERROR
>-DHAVE_BSD_FLOCK 
>>> -Wall -Qunused-arguments -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-array-bounds
>>> -Wno-unevaluated-expression -Werror -Wsign-compare -DXP_UNIX -UDEBUG
>>> -DNDEBUG -DNSS_NO_INIT_SUPPORT -DUSE_UTIL_DIRECTLY
>-DNO_NSPR_10_SUPPORT
>>> -DSSL_DISABLE_DEPRECATED_CIPHER_SUITE_NAMES
>>> -I../../external_tests/google_test/gtest/include
>>> -I../../external_tests/common -I../../../dist/out/include
>>> -I../../../dist/public/nss -I../../../dist/private/nss
>>> -I../../../dist/public/nspr -I../../../dist/public/nss
>>> -I../../../dist/public/libdbm -I../../../dist/public/gtest 
>-std=c++0x
>>> der_getint_unittest.cc
>>> In file included from der_getint_unittest.cc:14:
>>> ../../external_tests/common/scoped_ptrs.h:36:1: error: no type named
>>> 'unique_ptr' in namespace 'std'
>>> SCOPED(CERTCertificate);
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Jim Jagielski]

I am looking at, for 4.2.0, having our target set to 10.9, instead
of 10.7, which helps a lot.

> On Aug 15, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Peter kovacs  wrote:
> 
> Boost has name collision with c++11.
> Switch the standard of. Then you have better chances I think.
> 
> Am 15. August 2017 14:22:50 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski :
>> Just starting replaying w/ building 4.2.0 on macOS and ran into
>> this:
>> 
>>   error: no type named 'unique_ptr' in namespace 'std'
>> 
>> but the rub is that we for sure specify c++11 as we should:
>> 
>> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang++
>> -arch x86_64 -std=c++11 -arch x86_64 -o out/der_getint_unittest.o -c
>> -O2 -fPIC  -fno-common -pipe -DDARWIN -DHAVE_STRERROR -DHAVE_BSD_FLOCK 
>> -Wall -Qunused-arguments -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-array-bounds
>> -Wno-unevaluated-expression -Werror -Wsign-compare -DXP_UNIX -UDEBUG
>> -DNDEBUG -DNSS_NO_INIT_SUPPORT -DUSE_UTIL_DIRECTLY -DNO_NSPR_10_SUPPORT
>> -DSSL_DISABLE_DEPRECATED_CIPHER_SUITE_NAMES
>> -I../../external_tests/google_test/gtest/include
>> -I../../external_tests/common -I../../../dist/out/include
>> -I../../../dist/public/nss -I../../../dist/private/nss
>> -I../../../dist/public/nspr -I../../../dist/public/nss
>> -I../../../dist/public/libdbm -I../../../dist/public/gtest  -std=c++0x
>> der_getint_unittest.cc
>> In file included from der_getint_unittest.cc:14:
>> ../../external_tests/common/scoped_ptrs.h:36:1: error: no type named
>> 'unique_ptr' in namespace 'std'
>> SCOPED(CERTCertificate);
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS

[Peter kovacs]

Boost has name collision with c++11.
Switch the standard of. Then you have better chances I think.

Am 15. August 2017 14:22:50 MESZ schrieb Jim Jagielski :
>Just starting replaying w/ building 4.2.0 on macOS and ran into
>this:
>
>error: no type named 'unique_ptr' in namespace 'std'
>
>but the rub is that we for sure specify c++11 as we should:
>
>/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang++
>-arch x86_64 -std=c++11 -arch x86_64 -o out/der_getint_unittest.o -c
>-O2 -fPIC  -fno-common -pipe -DDARWIN -DHAVE_STRERROR -DHAVE_BSD_FLOCK 
>-Wall -Qunused-arguments -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-array-bounds
>-Wno-unevaluated-expression -Werror -Wsign-compare -DXP_UNIX -UDEBUG
>-DNDEBUG -DNSS_NO_INIT_SUPPORT -DUSE_UTIL_DIRECTLY -DNO_NSPR_10_SUPPORT
>-DSSL_DISABLE_DEPRECATED_CIPHER_SUITE_NAMES
>-I../../external_tests/google_test/gtest/include
>-I../../external_tests/common -I../../../dist/out/include
>-I../../../dist/public/nss -I../../../dist/private/nss
>-I../../../dist/public/nspr -I../../../dist/public/nss
>-I../../../dist/public/libdbm -I../../../dist/public/gtest  -std=c++0x
>der_getint_unittest.cc
>In file included from der_getint_unittest.cc:14:
>../../external_tests/common/scoped_ptrs.h:36:1: error: no type named
>'unique_ptr' in namespace 'std'
>SCOPED(CERTCertificate);
>
>
>
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