Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-17 Thread Keith N. McKenna 
On 2/17/2017 4:52 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Joe wrote:
>> I've looked at the wiki. The documents there are all pretty old.
>> They may be ok, but they were written for older versions of the software.
> 
> Your real starting point is here:
> 
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide
> 
> This is for the current (4.1.x) version and is being written from
> scratch. Many of the pages need reviewing, some still need to be
> written. There are active (to be precise: willing to be active)
> volunteers on the documentation mailing list, but experience shows that
> they can only be activated with specific tasks. So I suggest that you
> review/edit some pages for a start; if you need an account, just ask here.
> 
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
Forwarding to OP who is not subscribed.



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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-17 Thread Andrea Pescetti 

Joe wrote:

I've looked at the wiki. The documents there are all pretty old.
They may be ok, but they were written for older versions of the software.


Your real starting point is here:

https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/UserGuide

This is for the current (4.1.x) version and is being written from 
scratch. Many of the pages need reviewing, some still need to be 
written. There are active (to be precise: willing to be active) 
volunteers on the documentation mailing list, but experience shows that 
they can only be activated with specific tasks. So I suggest that you 
review/edit some pages for a start; if you need an account, just ask here.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-17 Thread Joe 
Hi Patricia, 

I'm not sure if I should be following up on any of the bits and pieces below. 

I could go through the process of introducing myself and getting an account, 
but it also seems like perhaps the group is inactive. 

I've looked at the wiki. The documents there are all pretty old. They may be 
ok, but they were written for older versions of the software. I don't think I'm 
in a position to "coordinate the work ". 

Thoughts? 

Joe 



 Patricia Shanahan  wrote:

>On 2/14/2017 10:40 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
>>
>>> I'm sure our documentation needs work, and there is someone with
>>> writing, editing, and copyediting skills hoping to help. The
>>> doc@ list
>>> seems to be dead, except for one message posted this year.
>>>
>>> What would be the best way to get started on improving our website or
>>> documentation?
>>
>> I think the easiest way is to use the wiki and coordinate the work. Start 
>> here:
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation
>>
>> Previously, much was coordinated by odf-autors:
>> http://www.odfauthors.org/
>>
>> At the moment, I do not know how to create an account in the Wiki, _maybe 
>> someone else can help_?
>>
>> Editing the web pages is done with cms, you have to have an account, which 
>> you get when you are committer:
>>
>>
>> The German language documentation is _actively_ maintained by the team of 
>> the ProOO-Box, see:
>> http://prooo-box.org/live/seiten/dokumentation.html
>> (see also the site: https://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html but the 
>> documents there are not up-to-date)
>
>Maybe one place to start on the English documentation would be to pick 
>up German changes, machine translate, and then polish the result, if the 
>licensing permits?
>
>> Perhaps one can say more precisely, documentation is not my particular 
>> workspace.
>
>I think the real problem is that currently documentation is not in 
>anybody's workspace. We have at least one volunteer who is interested, 
>but needs help getting started.
>
>

Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread toki 
On 02/15/2017 06:07 PM, Peter Kovacs wrote:

>From this perspective I'd start with an FAQ.

This is where it would be great if Solr, in conjunction with some of the
other technologies that are being developed by The Apache Software
Foundation could crawl through the various mailing lists, forums, etc,
and create a list of the 1,000 or so most commonly asked questions,
sorted by frequency of being asked.

###

>From a strictly personal perspective, I think that it will be simpler,
and easier to write new guides from scratch, than trying to update the
existing guides. (FWIW, I've said the same thing about guides for LibO
5.3.(^1))

LibO and AOo on the desktop are at the point where the differences
between them are such, that documentation written for one, is
inapplicable to the other.

For LibO, EO, and AnO on the Android platform, the differences between
them are so much greater, that what works for one, is completely
inapplicable to the other two.

jonathon


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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread Keith N. McKenna 
On 2/15/2017 12:43 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mcke...@comcast.net] 
> 
>> [knmc]
>> I do not read German, but from the looks of the ProOO-Box 
>> page above, it
>> appears that the documentation is based on the work of the OOoAuthors
>> Group and as such would most likely be under the CC-BY license.
>> [/knmc]
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Specifically, the material is double-licensed, either GPL 3 (or later 
> version) or/and CC BY 3.0 (or later version).
> 
> 
> Jörg
> 
Jorg;
Thank you for the additional information. This could pose problems
depending on the sense of the community. The community made a conscious
choice not to use the Version 3 documentation as a basis as they felt at
the time that we needed to have the Documentation under the ALV2.

I felt at the time and still do that the need for good documentation
outweighed the arguments for basing them on the ALV2, but the discussion
should be broached again to understand what the current sense of the
community would be.

Regards
Keith



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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread Peter Kovacs 
I learned on Fosdem from the pro documenters to stick to
# use case oriented approach. ALWAYS.
# never start with index
# set the possibility to provide feedback as low as possible.
# and only describe how it is done
# don't use insiders.

>From this perspective I'd start with an FAQ. And then continue what users
ask on Facebook or in Forums. And link that back.
Also to take Forum answers and put them into a nice way would be a good
approach.

For technical stuff I think we should tacle this, from tech to tech.

For the German comments you could use Google translate or use our
translation bug.
I lost sight of it thought :)

My 2 cents
Peter

Jörg Schmidt  schrieb am Mi., 15. Feb. 2017, 18:44:

> > From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mcke...@comcast.net]
>
> > [knmc]
> > I do not read German, but from the looks of the ProOO-Box
> > page above, it
> > appears that the documentation is based on the work of the OOoAuthors
> > Group and as such would most likely be under the CC-BY license.
> > [/knmc]
>
> Yes.
>
> Specifically, the material is double-licensed, either GPL 3 (or later
> version) or/and CC BY 3.0 (or later version).
>
>
> Jörg
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
> --

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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread Jörg Schmidt 
> From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mcke...@comcast.net] 

> [knmc]
> I do not read German, but from the looks of the ProOO-Box 
> page above, it
> appears that the documentation is based on the work of the OOoAuthors
> Group and as such would most likely be under the CC-BY license.
> [/knmc]

Yes.

Specifically, the material is double-licensed, either GPL 3 (or later version) 
or/and CC BY 3.0 (or later version).


Jörg



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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread Keith N. McKenna 
On 2/15/2017 9:20 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 2/14/2017 10:40 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
>>
>>> I'm sure our documentation needs work, and there is someone with
>>> writing, editing, and copyediting skills hoping to help. The
>>> doc@ list
>>> seems to be dead, except for one message posted this year.
>>>
>>> What would be the best way to get started on improving our website or
>>> documentation?
>>
>> I think the easiest way is to use the wiki and coordinate the work.
>> Start here:
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation
>>
>> Previously, much was coordinated by odf-autors:
>> http://www.odfauthors.org/
>>
>> At the moment, I do not know how to create an account in the Wiki,
>> _maybe someone else can help_?
>>
[knmc]
Creating of mwiki accounts must be done by an admin or someone with syop
privileges. Self registration was turned off 4+ years ago as an
anti-spam measure. To have an mwiki account created send an email to
dev@ with your preferred user name and  you will me notified by email
when the account has been created.
{/knmc]

>> Editing the web pages is done with cms, you have to have an account,
>> which you get when you are committer:
[knmc]
The cms can also be used by non-committers to edit the pages but they
must be reviewed and committed by a committer. For more information see
the excellent YouTube video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fvg1pfHLhE
[/knmc]
>>
>>
>> The German language documentation is _actively_ maintained by the team
>> of the ProOO-Box, see:
>> http://prooo-box.org/live/seiten/dokumentation.html
>> (see also the site: https://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html but
>> the documents there are not up-to-date)
> 
> Maybe one place to start on the English documentation would be to pick
> up German changes, machine translate, and then polish the result, if the
> licensing permits?
[knmc]
I do not read German, but from the looks of the ProOO-Box page above, it
appears that the documentation is based on the work of the OOoAuthors
Group and as such would most likely be under the CC-BY license.
[/knmc]
> 
>> Perhaps one can say more precisely, documentation is not my particular
>> workspace.
> 
> I think the real problem is that currently documentation is not in
> anybody's workspace. We have at least one volunteer who is interested,
> but needs help getting started.
[knmc]
The real problem is that to date we have not had contributors with
detailed knowledge of technical writing to act as mentors to new
volunteers and to do detailed copy editing to produce professional
documentation. I beat my head against this brick wall for 4 years and my
considered opinion is that unless this can be corrected good user
documentation will continue to be a difficult hurdle to overcome.
[/knmc]

Regards
Keith




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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread Matthias Seidel 
Hi Patricia,

A good starting point would be our SDK (HTML documentation).

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/odk/

I only wanted to update the Apache logo for the HTML docs but then I
found some typos, outdated links (e.g. to SUN Java) and still some
OpenOffice.org branding. I already made 2 commits but there is
definitely more to do:

https://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision=1783028
https://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision=1783109

Kind regards, Matthias


Am 15.02.2017 um 00:27 schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
> I'm sure our documentation needs work, and there is someone with
> writing, editing, and copyediting skills hoping to help. The doc@ list
> seems to be dead, except for one message posted this year.
>
> What would be the best way to get started on improving our website or
> documentation?
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>




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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread Raphael Bircher 

Hi all

Am .02.2017, 15:20 Uhr, schrieb Patricia Shanahan :


On 2/14/2017 10:40 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:

Hello,


From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]



I'm sure our documentation needs work, and there is someone with
writing, editing, and copyediting skills hoping to help. The
doc@ list
seems to be dead, except for one message posted this year.

What would be the best way to get started on improving our website or
documentation?


I think the easiest way is to use the wiki and coordinate the work.  
Start here:

https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation

Previously, much was coordinated by odf-autors:
http://www.odfauthors.org/

At the moment, I do not know how to create an account in the Wiki,  
_maybe someone else can help_?


Editing the web pages is done with cms, you have to have an account,  
which you get when you are committer:



The German language documentation is _actively_ maintained by the team  
of the ProOO-Box, see:

http://prooo-box.org/live/seiten/dokumentation.html
(see also the site: https://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html but  
the documents there are not up-to-date)


Maybe one place to start on the English documentation would be to pick  
up German changes, machine translate, and then polish the result, if the  
licensing permits?


Perhaps one can say more precisely, documentation is not my particular  
workspace.


I think the real problem is that currently documentation is not in  
anybody's workspace. We have at least one volunteer who is interested,  
but needs help getting started.


I asked on the Facebook Page for help. We will see, whats the reaction.




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--
Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch

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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-15 Thread Patricia Shanahan 

On 2/14/2017 10:40 PM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:

Hello,


From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]



I'm sure our documentation needs work, and there is someone with
writing, editing, and copyediting skills hoping to help. The
doc@ list
seems to be dead, except for one message posted this year.

What would be the best way to get started on improving our website or
documentation?


I think the easiest way is to use the wiki and coordinate the work. Start here:
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation

Previously, much was coordinated by odf-autors:
http://www.odfauthors.org/

At the moment, I do not know how to create an account in the Wiki, _maybe 
someone else can help_?

Editing the web pages is done with cms, you have to have an account, which you 
get when you are committer:


The German language documentation is _actively_ maintained by the team of the 
ProOO-Box, see:
http://prooo-box.org/live/seiten/dokumentation.html
(see also the site: https://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html but the 
documents there are not up-to-date)


Maybe one place to start on the English documentation would be to pick 
up German changes, machine translate, and then polish the result, if the 
licensing permits?



Perhaps one can say more precisely, documentation is not my particular 
workspace.


I think the real problem is that currently documentation is not in 
anybody's workspace. We have at least one volunteer who is interested, 
but needs help getting started.




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Re: Documentation needs

2017-02-14 Thread Jörg Schmidt 
Hello, 

> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org] 

> I'm sure our documentation needs work, and there is someone with 
> writing, editing, and copyediting skills hoping to help. The 
> doc@ list 
> seems to be dead, except for one message posted this year.
> 
> What would be the best way to get started on improving our website or 
> documentation?

I think the easiest way is to use the wiki and coordinate the work. Start here:
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation

Previously, much was coordinated by odf-autors:
http://www.odfauthors.org/

At the moment, I do not know how to create an account in the Wiki, _maybe 
someone else can help_?

Editing the web pages is done with cms, you have to have an account, which you 
get when you are committer:


The German language documentation is _actively_ maintained by the team of the 
ProOO-Box, see:
http://prooo-box.org/live/seiten/dokumentation.html
(see also the site: https://www.openoffice.org/de/doc/index.html but the 
documents there are not up-to-date)




Perhaps one can say more precisely, documentation is not my particular 
workspace.


greetings,
Jörg




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