On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 15:27, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Anything that directly or indirectly uses QtWebKit or QtScript also requires
execmem, unless we disable the JavaScript JIT, which we used to do, but got
users complaining about the slowness.
See also:
Daniel J Walsh wrote:
Any time I go into a rawhide I enable the tightest controls. Then
relax them as we get closer to Beta. I am thinking of dropping
execmem protection from user apps altogether as I see almost all
applications that a user relies on needing execmem. The attached
regular
John5342 wrote:
I don't know if you noticed but that bug shows it isn't and never has
been assigned to anybody so it is not entirely impossible nobody has
actually seen it...
Well, that's a failure of upstream's process then. Somebody has to look at
incoming bug reports, you cannot treat your
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:33 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
You won't be able to convince Gnome3 zealots.
That's a bit harsh, I think. They are just very impressionable folk. :-)
Believe me, a lot of people tried.
I would like to
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:43 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
Good luck then.
Thank you. Three words of hope: nautilus spatial mode. :-)
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On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Adam Jackson a...@redhat.com wrote:
As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests.
There are probably bugs!
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Adam Jackson a...@redhat.com wrote:
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 09:37 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote:
What's the plan for rather old, limited hardware? Have you personally
got XO-1, XO-1.5 units to test? We'll be testing it (with some
trepidation) at OLPC, but it's
On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 22:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
drago01 drago01 at gmail.com writes:
Not true ... I recommend reading
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
I read that a long, long time ago, of course. In fact, I have written a
constructive critique of
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 10:11 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote:
For now let's say yes, but that's more like implementation detail than
fundamental property. Clutter'd be perfectly happy atop a GLES
renderer, we just don't have that wired up.
Ok -- that doesn't sound so terrible. Are there
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:55 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
Details of rawhide builds for them here[1], the XO-1 build isn't
tested but the XO 1.5 one works fine, I'll be testing further and
likely the next build I do I'll add all the components to test the
llvmpipe feature on them.
Don't freak
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Adam Jackson a...@redhat.com wrote:
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:55 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
Details of rawhide builds for them here[1], the XO-1 build isn't
tested but the XO 1.5 one works fine, I'll be testing further and
likely the next build I do I'll add
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:33 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
You won't be able to convince Gnome3 zealots.
That's a bit harsh, I think. They are just very impressionable folk. :-)
Believe me, a lot of people tried.
I would like to believe that a rational argument eventually prevails.
Vote with
Mike Chambers mike at miketc.net writes:
Reading all sorts of stuff or trying to but havcen't found yours yet
(don't like it neither, so wanted to see your thoughts on it too)
If you google 'on gnome 3 bojan', it should come up in top 10.
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On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Bojan Smojver bo...@rexursive.com wrote:
Mike Chambers mike at miketc.net writes:
Reading all sorts of stuff or trying to but havcen't found yours yet
(don't like it neither, so wanted to see your thoughts on it too)
If you google 'on gnome 3 bojan', it
Mathieu Bridon bochecha at fedoraproject.org writes:
And if you really loved Gnome 2 so much
If this is what think, then you really completely missed what I'm trying to say.
The main reason I'm using the fallback mode is the insanity of overview in
gnome-shell.
Don't worry - I'm sure someone
drago01 drago01 at gmail.com writes:
Just point people to the link directly if you want them to read it
(should be easier for both sides).
Spamming the list with links to my own site is not something I want to do. If
someone really wants to read that, they'll find it.
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Bojan Smojver bojan at rexursive.com writes:
Don't worry - I'm sure someone will write an extension that will nuke the
stupid Activities button sooner or later.
I'm behind times:
http://intgat.tigress.co.uk/rmy/extensions/index.html
Open source - it's a wonderful thing.
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On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 16:05 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:55 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
Details of rawhide builds for them here[1], the XO-1 build isn't
tested but the XO 1.5 one works fine, I'll be testing further and
likely the next build I do I'll add all the
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
I think what will most likely happen is that someone out there will come
up with an extension to nuke the Activities button and replace it with
Applications button. And that will be the end of that discussion.
There's been one for
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
There's been one for months, and yet 'the end of that discussion' does
not appear to have come, and not all Shell users use it.
http://intgat.tigress.co.uk/rmy/extensions/index.html
Yeah, guilty as charged on the discussion bit.
--
Bojan
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On 11/08/2011 12:45 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
I think what will most likely happen is that someone out there will come
up with an extension to nuke the Activities button and replace it with
Applications button. And that will be the end
Adam Williamson wrote:
It seems like a similar bug has come up before in clamav:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573191
This issue affects many JITs. The WebKit JIT is affected too. Actually, the
execmem boolean has been enabled by default for a while, did it get disabled
again
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 04:48 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Adam Williamson wrote:
It seems like a similar bug has come up before in clamav:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573191
This issue affects many JITs. The WebKit JIT is affected too. Actually, the
execmem boolean has
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:33 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
You won't be able to convince Gnome3 zealots.
That's a bit harsh, I think. They are just very impressionable folk. :-)
That's also a bit harsh I think, and I'd appreciate it if
Mathieu Bridon bochecha at fedoraproject.org writes:
You probably want to switch to Linux Mint 12 when it comes out with
their GSME enabled.
Now you're being funny. :-)
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On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Bojan Smojver bo...@rexursive.com wrote:
Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler at chello.at writes:
I, for
one, want my computer to work the way I learned and interiorized a computer
works, any innovative interface destroys my automatisms and confuses me.
I'm using
drago01 drago01 at gmail.com writes:
Not true ... I recommend reading
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
I read that a long, long time ago, of course. In fact, I have written a
constructive critique of Gnome 3 many months ago, based to a large degree on the
very
drago01 drago01 at gmail.com writes:
Not true ... I recommend reading
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
Just one link, so you wouldn't say I'm plucking things out of thin air:
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/FAQ#Why_no_window_list_or_dock.3F
This
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Bojan Smojver bo...@rexursive.com wrote:
drago01 drago01 at gmail.com writes:
Not true ... I recommend reading
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
Just one link, so you wouldn't say I'm plucking things out of thin air:
On dom, 2011-11-06 at 22:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
The existence of all those extensions that bring back sanity (apps menu in
normal view, workspaces in normal view, persistent dash for switching tasks in
normal view etc.) is the proof of the ultimate irony - the (supposedly)
biggest
Florian Müllner fmuellner at gnome.org writes:
Rebuttal only here. No new material.
Does that mean that the existence of terminal emulators for X11 is proof
of graphical user interfaces being a mistake?
Terminal and (I guess other) GUI apps do entirely _different_ things. Apps menu
in
drago01 drago01 at gmail.com writes:
Again, rebuttal only.
I didn't comment on whether your arguments are valid or not I simply
said that confused users was *not* the reason for the lack of
taskbar. distraction != confusion.
Now we're splitting hairs, eh? A distracted user is not a confused
On 11/07/2011 07:33 AM, Bojan Smojver wrote:
The name of one user that
was tempted to switch tasks just because the taskbar/workspace switcher
me! I'd click to see what was 'happening' on the other workspace.
Fred
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Frederic Muller fred at cm17.com writes:
me! I'd click to see what was 'happening' on the other workspace.
:-)
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:23:02 +0100
Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
different bugzilla accounts by now.
So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
forwarding the bugs you're too lazy
On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 23:25 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
I did not imply that users that use gnome-shell as is are insane. What I said
was that GUI behaviour that introduces many _unnecessary_ steps for _no_
_benefit_ is insane.
Did you even read my answer to you earlier where I said that I was
Mathieu Bridon bochecha at fedoraproject.org writes:
instead of complaining and being insulting?
Point to one insult please.
Constructive criticism is not complaining.
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On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 23:33 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
Please, just give me the name of _one_ user that got _distracted_ by the
taskbar in Gnome (or any other OS, for that matter).
Look at the value of the « From: » header of this email for a name of
such a user.
The name of one user that
Mathieu Bridon bochecha at fedoraproject.org writes:
[..snip..] and thanks to my incredibly poor focus [..snip..]
Oh, and I don't think I am a Joe Average or an Aunt Tillie: I'm a
Fedora package maintainer, Python developer, a release engineer for an
in-house Linux distribution at $dayjob,
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 03:24 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
Mathieu Bridon bochecha at fedoraproject.org writes:
[..snip..] and thanks to my incredibly poor focus [..snip..]
Oh, and I don't think I am a Joe Average or an Aunt Tillie: I'm a
Fedora package maintainer, Python developer, a
On 05.11.2011 01:09, Bojan Smojver wrote:
Ian Malone ibmalone at gmail.com writes:
This is essentially giving up. It's frustrating to be stuck on
overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
/something/ but you don't know what. If it worked fluidly it would be
okay.
For
w at googlemail.com
writes:
Yet look at all the happy users of
default Gnome 3!
I am one of them and I went directly
from the tilling-WM Xmonad to gnome
3! So you can't say it's only for
absolute noobs :). I installed it and
it took about a week to get used to it
so that I stopped
On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 13:40 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
w at googlemail.com
writes:
Yet look at all the happy users of
default Gnome 3!
I am one of them
[... snip ...]
Please. What would you think of the
system that when you click on FF starts
FF, Evo and Gimp? I think you would
Dne 5.11.2011 00:39, Ian Malone napsal(a):
Is there any point in me reporting any bug in Fedora bugzilla ever then?
Of course, there are plenty of bugs caused by our packaging or moments
when one programs stomps on the other one's toes.
See
enaut wrote:
I am one of them and I went directly from the tilling-WM Xmonad to gnome
3! So you can't say it's only for absolute noobs :).
The fact that you were using a tiling WM first shows that you are much more
willing to adapt to unconventional designs than most other users. I, for
one,
Mathieu Bridon bochecha at fedoraproject.org writes:
Right now, if I want to start an app, I just hit alt+f2, type the first
few letters, hit tab and then enter.
No zoom, no search, no expose, no workspaces, no dash.
Just see it that way: you have one powerful interface to do advanced
Kevin Kofler kevin.kofler at chello.at writes:
I, for
one, want my computer to work the way I learned and interiorized a computer
works, any innovative interface destroys my automatisms and confuses me.
I'm using Plasma Desktop with the Classic menu (not the default fancy
Kickoff), only
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 03:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
Adam Jackson ajax at redhat.com writes:
As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
That's really a policy decision for the GNOME / Fedora desktop teams,
not for ajax.
Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know, so I asked.
But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
hardware that
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 06:23 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
That's really a policy decision for the GNOME / Fedora desktop teams,
not for ajax.
Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know, so I asked.
No more than anyone -
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know, so I
asked.
No more than anyone - there really is no cabal ;) All I know is what the
GNOME / desktop team have said in public, but what they've said seems to
point in a
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
Bojan Smojver bo...@rexursive.com wrote:
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know,
so I asked.
No more than anyone - there really is no cabal ;) All I know is
what the
On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 23:09 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
hardware that previously needed the fallback mode is covered, fallback
mode will die. AIUI, fallback mode isn't meant to be a GNOME
2-by-stealth for Shell
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 23:09 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
hardware that previously needed the fallback mode is covered, fallback
mode will die. AIUI,
On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 23:09:12 -0700,
Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 03:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
hardware that previously needed the fallback mode is covered, fallback
mode will
On 4 November 2011 13:21, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
Bojan Smojver bo...@rexursive.com wrote:
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know,
so I asked.
No more
On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 14:58:47 +0100,
Ilyes Gouta ilyes.go...@gmail.com wrote:
One nice outcome is that we could end up with an optimized reference
s/w renderer (and kernel/user land stack) for all platforms. Which is
cool! :)
The other graphics related improvement looking possible for
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 14:10:57 +
Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com wrote:
On 4 November 2011 13:21, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org
wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
Bojan Smojver bo...@rexursive.com wrote:
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
Yeah, I got
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 14:10 +, Ian Malone wrote:
It's frustrating to be stuck on
overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
/something/ but you don't know what. If it worked fluidly it would be
okay. Actually, the responsiveness issue isn't limited just to
overview,
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com wrote:
On 4 November 2011 13:21, seth vidal skvi...@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
Bojan Smojver bo...@rexursive.com wrote:
Adam Williamson awilliam at redhat.com writes:
Yeah, I got that bit.
Tell us again where to find that gnome shell for dummies doc?
I tried to give it a fair trial, but I found it so
non-intuitive/counter-intuitive that I gave up after an hour and
switched to Forced Fallback Mode.
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On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY kkeit...@redhat.com wrote:
Tell us again where to find that gnome shell for dummies doc?
The cheat sheet? http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet
I tried to give it a fair trial, but I found it so
non-intuitive/counter-intuitive that I
On 4 November 2011 14:36, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Ian Malone ibmal...@gmail.com wrote:
This is essentially giving up. It's frustrating to be stuck on
overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
/something/ but you don't know what.
Ian Malone wrote:
If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
different bugzilla accounts by now.
So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
forwarding the bugs you're too lazy to file directly at the right place.
Kevin Kofler
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seth vidal wrote:
Bojan,
Install xfce. You'll be happy w/that.
You should also give KDE Plasma Desktop a try.
Kevin Kofler
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On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 06:23:02PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Ian Malone wrote:
If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
different bugzilla accounts by now.
So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
forwarding the bugs you're too lazy
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Ian Malone wrote:
If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
different bugzilla accounts by now.
So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
forwarding the bugs
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 06:23:02PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Ian Malone wrote:
If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
different bugzilla accounts by now.
So what? Maintainers are not
--- Original message ---
From: seth vidal
Install xfce. You'll be happy w/that.
Thanks for the tip.
Or maybe I'll just have to find time to (learn how to) hack the shell,
remove overview from it, bring back the taskbar and workspaces to normal
view and call it
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
Shipping bug-free software is the job of maintainers. It's reasonable to
ask a reporter to take an issue upstream if you feel that that'll result
in the bug being fixed faster, but there's no reason to mandate that and
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 10:17 -0800, Jef Spaleta wrote:
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
Shipping bug-free software is the job of maintainers. It's reasonable to
ask a reporter to take an issue upstream if you feel that that'll result
in the bug
...snip...
Just another datapoint, my personal policy here is:
a) ask the reporter if they could report it upstream, as they will be
able to answer questions and advocate for their bug much better that I
can in some cases.
b) If they say no, and I agree it's a bug/issue that should be
On 4 November 2011 17:23, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Ian Malone wrote:
If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
different bugzilla accounts by now.
So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
forwarding the bugs you're too
Ian Malone ibmalone at gmail.com writes:
This is essentially giving up. It's frustrating to be stuck on
overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
/something/ but you don't know what. If it worked fluidly it would be
okay.
For me, it goes further than that. I do not want
On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 17:57 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests.
I said on IRC, but just to reiterate,
Adam Jackson ajax at redhat.com writes:
As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests.
For all of us gnome-shell sceptics that prefer the
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