Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Guys, let's take the dBc discussion off list. 73, Eric Mooderator /elecraft.com/ On 10/19/2016 6:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: On 10/19/2016 2:11 AM, Jim Brown wrote: The "carrier" reference for other modulation is the peak of the envelope. Which means your dBc references should be

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

On 10/19/2016 2:11 AM, Jim Brown wrote: The "carrier" reference for other modulation is the peak of the envelope. Which means your dBc references should be labelled "dB PEP" for the particular modulation. The reference to dBc is only strictly accurate for the unmodulated carrier and possibly

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Gee, I thought I did. I told you how I made the measurements. Every data point was picked off of the curves with the cursor. The SSB data is relative to the highest peak in the envelope, not to the carrier, of course, which is suppressed. The "carrier" reference for other modulation is the

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

You didn't answer the question. On 10/18/2016 4:47 PM, Jim Brown wrote: The data is accumulated peaks for 30-40 seconds. Reference for dBC is the peak of the waveform. That terminology is not appropriate, of course, for the SSB data. 73, Jim On Tue,10/18/2016 12:53 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

The official response I got from the factory is that to have any of the IMD mods done, the radio needs to be sent in to the factory. Bill N0CU -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3S-QST-Article-tp7623462p7623522.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Message - From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <e...@elecraft.com> To: "Jim Rogers" <jim.w4...@gmail.com>, "elecraft" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:10:17 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article Hi Jim - The

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

> K3S 10057 > > - Original Message - > > From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <e...@elecraft.com> > To: "Jim Rogers" <jim.w4...@gmail.com>, "elecraft" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> > Sent: Tuesday, October 18,

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

cations? > > Thanks and 73, Gene N9TF > K3S 10057 > > - Original Message - > > From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <e...@elecraft.com> > To: "Jim Rogers" <jim.w4...@gmail.com>, "elecraft" <elecraft@mailman.qth.n

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

The data is accumulated peaks for 30-40 seconds. Reference for dBC is the peak of the waveform. That terminology is not appropriate, of course, for the SSB data. 73, Jim On Tue,10/18/2016 12:53 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: What method(s) did you use to verify the accuracy of your dB(c) numbers? I

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

That's harmonics which the FCC regulates to -43 dBc or better, better being a bigger number, on 160-10m, and -60dBc for 6 meters and up. That number IS regulated. That is not the same as two tone TX IMD which is specified by Elecraft as around -30dB, and NOT regulated by the FCC, because most

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

K3S 10057 - Original Message - From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <e...@elecraft.com> To: "Jim Rogers" <jim.w4...@gmail.com>, "elecraft" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:10:17 PM Subject: Re: [Elecra

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

What method(s) did you use to verify the accuracy of your dB(c) numbers? I get a little queasy when I see "-48.5 dBc." On 10/18/2016 10:51 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On Tue,10/18/2016 3:43 AM, Yngvi (TF3Y) wrote: How fast does IMD deteriorate with increased power from the K3S or K3? What are the

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

I have received a response to my posts from Eric and understand that the 17M harmonic problem I was concerned about was limited to the test unit supplied to ARRL. I am a happy camper! Jim, W4ATK __ Elecraft mailing list Home:

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Many thanks for sharing this Jim. Very ambitious and informative. 73, Yngvi TF3Y On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > On Tue,10/18/2016 3:43 AM, Yngvi (TF3Y) wrote: > >> How fast does IMD deteriorate with increased power from the K3S or K3? >> >>

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Hi Jim - The 17 m harmonic problem was limited to the single review unit, which we corrected. All others shipped were/are OK on 17M. 73, Eric /elecraft.com/ On 10/18/2016 11:38 AM, Jim Rogers wrote: To all who responded, certainly my friend Don and others "During initial testing, we

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

To all who responded, certainly my friend Don and others "During initial testing, we found that the second harmonic on 17 meters measured 42 dB below the fundamental, well below the specified >50 dB we measured on the other bands. We returned the transceiver to Elecraft for repair and

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Like Bill, I operate with several other hams for Field Day, CQP, 7QP (7th Area QSO Party), and VHF grid trips. Field Day is a single K3 for HF and a KX3 for the VHF station. We run 1A battery/solar. CQP and 7QP are multi-transmitter, K3/P3SVGA/KPA500 and run from Honda 2000i generators. These

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

On Tue,10/18/2016 3:43 AM, Yngvi (TF3Y) wrote: How fast does IMD deteriorate with increased power from the K3S or K3? What are the IMD figures when running 20-25W driving a linear amp. such as the KPA500? I've looked carefully at this, and so has my neighbor Bob Wolbert, K6XX, who is an

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

We sent an earlier posting showing which serial numbers already had the new upgrades: KPA3A upgrade incorporated starting with serial number: Factory assembled: s/n 10852 Kit:s/n 10864 LPA module upgrade incorporated starting with serial number:

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

i FL CWops #1085 CWA Advisor levels II and III http://cwops.org/ On Tue, 10/18/16, Bill Frantz <fra...@pwpconsult.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Tuesday, October 18, 2016, 7:04 AM Since J

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

If the serial number is 10939 or greater, the change has already been installed. At slightly lower serial numbers (10852 and above) it may or may not have been installed - it depends on whether it is a kit or factory assembly and whether it is a K3S/10 or K3S/100. If you are in the

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Is this there a SN after which these upgrades are automatically included in all K3S's? On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:56 PM, Jan Erik Holm wrote: > Wayne, > > Is there a way to do this " at home" ? Since I´m in Sweden > it might not be practical to send the radio all the way to >

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

On 10/17/2016 8:48 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: What would be a practical way to actually introduce such a change? Lay out all the specifics involved. Let's see your critical path item by item plan. It's cheep and easy to just blurt out "they oughta go to 28 volts." Provide an *optional* 28V

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Since June, my K3 went out for the California QSO Party (CQP), a special event station from Ely NV, and field day. Field day and CQP were solar powered battery. The Ely event ended up being battery because the generator was putting out S9 noise. The field day was QRP while CQP and Ely were at

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

This is an interesting thread but I wonder about the practicalities... Of course we all want to emit a clean signal. In which cases might the IMD be a problem? Running full power off a battery with voltage dropping? Running almost full power to drive an older type tube amp? How fast does IMD

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

1. W4ATK seems overly indignant about a "compliance" spec he doesn't even understand. 2. And while I've been a bit chagrined about it myself in the past, anybody who doesn't understand that Elecraft's chosen business model is centered around portable gear (which includes motor home and

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Thanks, Wayne. This thread has been very interesting! 73 Matt NQ6N/9 On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:40 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > Our entire product line emphasizes portability, so we'll just have to > continue the never-ending search for 12 volt mojo. (Note: the new Upgrade >

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Our entire product line emphasizes portability, so we'll just have to continue the never-ending search for 12 volt mojo. (Note: the new Upgrade is a case of this; IMD is improved when running from lower voltages.) Stick with Elecraft and minimize your carbon footprint! 73, Wayne N6KR On Oct

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Wayne, Is there a way to do this " at home" ? Since I´m in Sweden it might not be practical to send the radio all the way to California for this. 73 Jim SM2EKM -- On 2016-10-17 02:25, Wayne Burdick wrote: Knut, The K3S as originally shipped does not

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Kevin wrote: > The problem I have is accepting the status quo by Elecraft. Just because > everybody else is around -30dB shouldn't mean Elecraft stop trying to do > better. Let the portable/backpacking rigs use 12V MOSFETS and switch the >

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

and wants in a radio and a 60 pound monster with 200 watts and built in power supply for 48 -60 volts, may not be one of them. Jim K4JAF -Original Message- From: Kevin Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 6:47 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article Hmm

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Hmm, compliance with what? The rig meets Elecraft specs and since the FCC doesn't regulate TX IMD there is nothing to comply with. The problem I have is accepting the status quo by Elecraft. Just because everybody else is around -30dB shouldn't mean Elecraft stop trying to do better. Let the

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Charlie, You hit the nail on the head. Mark Musick, WB9CIF -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Charlie T, K3ICH Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 9:04 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article Now, I may

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Jim, Your new rig had nothing "defective." It was "in compliance" when you bought it. Subsequent to your buying it, that particular in-compliance specification has been improved. There is nothing for Elecraft to fix because there is nothing broken. No warranty extends to future

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Jim, Elecraft sold you a K3S that *was* in compliance and will still be if you do nothing. See Wayne's post yesterday. They improved the Transmit IMD for the current K3S and are offering to make that change to older K3S. They are going out of their way to add the change to your K3S free of

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

ction. I have been known to stick my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion. 73, Charlie k3ICH -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Rogers Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 4:42 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [El

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

n known to stick my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion. 73, Charlie k3ICH -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Rogers Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 4:42 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QS

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

I have been a loyal Elecrafter for many years, and this seems to be somewhat similar to the VW diesel problem. Elecraft has sold me a radio specifying it to be in compliance with specifications of IMD. Now you are telling me that I must bear the burden of time and expense to bring the device

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

: Wayne Burdick Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 8:26 PM To: ab2tc Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article Knut, The K3S as originally shipped does not have a design flaw. Like virtually all 12-V-class transceivers using currently available MOSFETs, it was already right

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Knut, The K3S as originally shipped does not have a design flaw. Like virtually all 12-V-class transceivers using currently available MOSFETs, it was already right around -30 dBc or better, worst-case, for 3rd-order IMD. We simply found a way to make it better by a few dB, and we're offering

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Bill, Another good solution is LiFePO4 batteries, which have a relatively flatter discharge curve than Lead-Acid, and that discharge curve is much closer to 13V for LiFePO4 than 11.5V for Lead Acid. Yes, they're more expensive to buy, but they last a lot longer. 73, Jim K9YC On

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

The reason DC power systems in vehicles and aircraft used 28 V or less historically is that that was the highest DC voltage that could be switched mechanically without excessive arcing. (Has to do with the energy required to pull electrons out of metals, I believe.) With the solid state

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Hi, Well, as I remember it there was once a push to move to 48V for automotives but that never happened (so far). I was always skeptical on the wisdom on moving to FET finals at the 12V level. Generally bipolars work better at this low voltage. FETs come come into their own at higher voltages

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Wayne, For those of us with the unmodified KLPA3A (10 W module), can the mods be done by a skilled engr/tech. If so, can the parts be made available as a kit. If not, can just the module be sent in for modification instead of the whole radio. Bill N0CU -- View this message in context:

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Quote: "Unless things have changed they test at one frequency and assume the other bands produce the same results. " Hi, I don't believe this is true. The ARRL publishes a "typical" IMD figure and a "worst case" figure which I assume to be the worst case for any band and they they publish which

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

There was a major initiative at least 15 years ago in the automotive industry to go to 28 volt systems in order to reduce the cost and weight of the heavier wires that were needed to cope with the expanding current drain as more things in the car went electronic. Not sure what happened to

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Frantz Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 8:33 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article It seems to me that this solution would tie the K3S++ to mains power. Being tied to mains power would impact

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Wayne, Ok, I'll defer to your numbers. Offhand I don't have mine handy, but I was pretty amazed at how quickly the IMD rose above 10W. I'm not saying anything new here, back in December in this thread http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Powering-a-K3s-from-a-battery-tt7611959.html#a7611980,

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

It seems to me that this solution would tie the K3S++ to mains power. Being tied to mains power would impact my club's use of K3s with batteries on events like the California QSO party. (Our location does not permit generators.) I don't know how much such a restriction would shrink the K3S

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Original Message----- From: Kevin >> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article >> >> The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much >> improved >> by moving to 24 or 50

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Wes, This would be a simple firmware change, and it might be worth considering. But typically we see -30 dBc or better at 12 W in production with the latest revisions. 73, Wayne N6KR On Oct 15, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Wes Stewart wrote: > ….I would recommend that Elecraft

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

, Arizona -Original Message- From: Kevin Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much improved by moving to 24 or 50V finals. Move the /K3s II/ to 50V finals, say a pair

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

My experience suggests that running the low power amp in a K3(S) above 10W is a disaster. In a K3(S)/100 the HPA isn't activated until above 12W. IMHO, again based only on my measurements of my K3 and my K3S (before mods), I would recommend that Elecraft change firmware to set the max power

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

The improvements we made this year (referenced in my previous posting) bring up both worst-case and average performance of the K3S on all bands, at all power levels. Regarding the Yaesu radio that hit -38 dBc worst-case using the same PA topology: luck of the draw. There are many factors,

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

ce? Dave Hachadorian, K6LL Yuma, Arizona -Original Message- From: Kevin Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much improved by moving to 24 or 50V finals. Move t

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

OK. I purchased the K3/10 in 2010 which is able to output up to 12w. Is the low power amp any better at IMD, or subject to the same limitations because its 12v transistors? I bought the KXPA-100 last year. Would it be any better than the KPA3 or KPA3A? 3rd-order IMD in the vicinity of -30

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

, Arizona -Original Message- From: Kevin Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much improved by moving to 24 or 50V finals. Move the /K3s II/ to 50V finals, say

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

, October 14, 2016 8:14 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much improved by moving to 24 or 50V finals. Move the /K3s II/ to 50V finals, say a pair of MRF 150's, limited to 150 or 200W max output. Design/Sell

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much improved by moving to 24 or 50V finals. Move the /K3s II/ to 50V finals, say a pair of MRF 150's, limited to 150 or 200W max output. Design/Sell an outboard 50V switching supply capable of 15-20A continuous current, with a 10A 12V

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

> Based upon your experience and understanding of the issue, would an original > K3 (not K3s) with the new synths have better TX IMD? In other words, is the > poor TX IMD of the K3s a function of some part of the rig not associated with > the new synths? > > Dave AB7E Hi all, This has

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

I would not expect the synthesizer (old or new) to be a contributor the IMD issue. Hopefully someone will correct me if that is a bad assumption. To me, the primary issue appears to be the linearity of the two RF power amplifiers. During the course of my troubleshooting, I noticed that a number

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Hi all, I, too. prefer the paper copy, but the mention of a K3S review got me too intrigued, so I had to read it online. As for the other comments in this thread, I find this situation more than a little worrisome and certainly an official Elecraft response is hoped for. Are the updates being

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Based upon your experience and understanding of the issue, would an original K3 (not K3s) with the new synths have better TX IMD? In other words, is the poor TX IMD of the K3s a function of some part of the rig not associated with the new synths? Dave AB7E On 10/14/2016 9:06 AM, Bill

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

I was not surprised to see a comment about the Tx IMDs in the QST article. One of the first problems I encountered with my new K3s/10 was poor Tx IMD performance. What I observed was flat topping that started at about 5W, and progressively got worse as the power was increased. The distortion was

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Hi Knut, Yes, I get a notification about the digital issue, but I prefer to read the paper copy, so I wait. It did come yesterday so I've seen it now. Wes On 10/13/2016 5:35 PM, ab2tc wrote: Hi Wes, You can read it online. I received an Email link from ARRL to my online copy. AB2TC -

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Hi Wes, You can read it online. I received an Email link from ARRL to my online copy. AB2TC - Knut Wes Stewart-2 wrote > I have not seen my QST yet. I think the mailman reads it first. But you > ask an > excellent question. > > On 10/13/2016 2:25 PM, ab2tc wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Very good

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Good question that I would like to know the answer to. Leroy AB7CE -Original Message- From: ab2tc Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 3:25 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article Hi, Very good review - for the most part. I am concerned about

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

I have not seen my QST yet. I think the mailman reads it first. But you ask an excellent question. On 10/13/2016 2:25 PM, ab2tc wrote: Hi, Very good review - for the most part. I am concerned about the transmit IMD results mentioned only in a side bar "Lab Notes: ..." on page 50. Initially

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Hi, Very good review - for the most part. I am concerned about the transmit IMD results mentioned only in a side bar "Lab Notes: ..." on page 50. Initially the transmit IMD in the original review sample was less than stellar, but eventually got resolved by Elecraft submitting a new review

Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article

Thank you for noticing :) 73, Wayne N6KR On Oct 12, 2016, at 8:41 PM, "Dauer, Edward" wrote: > The November issue of QST arrived in the mail today. Nice article about the > K3S, in case anyone hasn’t yet seen it. > > Ted, KN1CBR