Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Umm Rod Old Mate was referring to the my linked images for the RPi4, not your ones, the ones I built for other reasons. On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 1:26 PM Rod Webster wrote: > >None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > > Well yes they are. Andy and Steffan are using pi5 variant of my image which > is used for the 2.9.1 release from here: > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=sharing > Filename (with rpi-5 in it): > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz > It was built for the Pi 5's BCM2712 board. > Username: cnc Password: cnc > to finalise the installation (wifi, password , locale etc) type: sudo > menu-config > > If the screen resolution is not right, it should be able to be fixed with > a parameter in one of the pi's config files. > > I have just completed and tested a 2.9.2 installer for X86 on Debian 12.4. > I managed to bypass the raspberry-firmware installation bug in earlier > versions (Inherited from Debian) > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nw0dGt5aZXVo8k68lLf4N_nzc0wTczAg/view?usp=sharing > I will also rebuild the images for the Pi4 and Pi5, but I am kernelled out > for today! > > Rod Webster > *1300 896 832* > +61 435 765 611 > Vehicle Modifications Network > www.vehiclemods.net.au > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 12:00, Rob M wrote: > > > None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > > name would made the obvious, but as this a topic about the 4 I guess > there > > could be some confusion. > > > > As for the recent RPi5 image you tried does that have any issues with > > screen resolution? Is it stuck on a single resolution? Does it detect the > > display it's attached to ? These issues, as mentioned previously, a game > > stopper for myself. If they aren't an issue could you say what > > kind-brand-model display you're using ? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023, 11:40 andy pugh, wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > > > > > > I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc > > > > > > -- > > > atp > > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > > lunatics." > > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Emc-developers mailing list > > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
>None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file Well yes they are. Andy and Steffan are using pi5 variant of my image which is used for the 2.9.1 release from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H_q0Ra-27ZDOhquvq179beUZQNVlex1f/view?usp=sharing Filename (with rpi-5 in it): rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz It was built for the Pi 5's BCM2712 board. Username: cnc Password: cnc to finalise the installation (wifi, password , locale etc) type: sudo menu-config If the screen resolution is not right, it should be able to be fixed with a parameter in one of the pi's config files. I have just completed and tested a 2.9.2 installer for X86 on Debian 12.4. I managed to bypass the raspberry-firmware installation bug in earlier versions (Inherited from Debian) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nw0dGt5aZXVo8k68lLf4N_nzc0wTczAg/view?usp=sharing I will also rebuild the images for the Pi4 and Pi5, but I am kernelled out for today! Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 12:00, Rob M wrote: > None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file > name would made the obvious, but as this a topic about the 4 I guess there > could be some confusion. > > As for the recent RPi5 image you tried does that have any issues with > screen resolution? Is it stuck on a single resolution? Does it detect the > display it's attached to ? These issues, as mentioned previously, a game > stopper for myself. If they aren't an issue could you say what > kind-brand-model display you're using ? > > > > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023, 11:40 andy pugh, wrote: > > > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > > wrote: > > > > > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > > > > I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
None of those images were for the Rpi-5, I thought the RPi4 in the file name would made the obvious, but as this a topic about the 4 I guess there could be some confusion. As for the recent RPi5 image you tried does that have any issues with screen resolution? Is it stuck on a single resolution? Does it detect the display it's attached to ? These issues, as mentioned previously, a game stopper for myself. If they aren't an issue could you say what kind-brand-model display you're using ? On Sat, 30 Dec 2023, 11:40 andy pugh, wrote: > On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers > wrote: > > > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > > I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 00:27, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. I mentioned it in a previous message, but it is cnc / cnc -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Hello, Andy's image was a success - I just did not know the passwords. > General use for Linuxcnc > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ve6LismgxL0OfYufkeU1Z0hzdWhbf_WJ/view?usp=sharing does not boot on my RPi5 - gets the same USB errors and the missing device tree as reported for the 2.9.1 RPI version our documentation references. > A complete development image for the Litexcnc project, includes OpenOCD, > oss-cad-suite and some other bits and pieces as required, previously this > link was only shared on the github page for the project > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l9dldTeoRwV8Ma3ljQCWFn-8pFGjuIot/view?usp=sharing Not tried. > > > Let me look to see what I have. > > > > Try this one > > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz Boots very fast into the Login screen. Also the change to the ascii terminal with CTRL-ALT-F1 and back with ALT-F7 is fine. I recall to have set Login data in the RPi imager but did not find them to work. Is there a default password I should know about? Looked into https://linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html but that did not help me. Many thanks! Steffen ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
The kernel that has been used previously on the RPi4 has worked fine on the 5. The Foundation images for ALL versions of the RPi used the same kernel, I've booted the same kernel version on the Rpi4 and 5 so to say "solid preempt_rt kernel for the Pi5 which has not been possible previously" is not correct, as I've used the same kernel version and patches on both the 4 & 5 (tho built suit each platform), the bootloader decides which kernel image to boot based on the name of the kernel image file. If you need to remove-add-customise anything from the images you can mount them and then use qemu to chroot into the image and do what you need to do, this is how the bulk of the image is created. This I've mentioned before via email. Here are a few images I've done some post build "polishing" when installing the desktop I used xfce task as this installs a little more, mainly the network manager. General use for Linuxcnc https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ve6LismgxL0OfYufkeU1Z0hzdWhbf_WJ/view?usp=sharing A complete development image for the Litexcnc project, includes OpenOCD, oss-cad-suite and some other bits and pieces as required, previously this link was only shared on the github page for the project https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l9dldTeoRwV8Ma3ljQCWFn-8pFGjuIot/view?usp=sharing On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 6:03 AM andy pugh wrote: > On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 at 17:56, andy pugh wrote: > > > Let me look to see what I have. > > Try this one > rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz > > Raspi-imager can work directly with .xz files, no need to expand. > > Note that you need to use menu-config to set up the Wifi. > > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 at 17:56, andy pugh wrote: > Let me look to see what I have. Try this one rpi-5-debian-bookworm-6.1.61-rt15-arm64-ext4-2023-11-17-1520.img.xz Raspi-imager can work directly with .xz files, no need to expand. Note that you need to use menu-config to set up the Wifi. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 03:53, andy pugh wrote: > That's odd. I am replying to this email on _my_ Pi5 and it works fine. > I can't remember the exact details of how I got here, Looking further, almost certainly not with the image from linuxcnc.org/iso as that was built a month before the timestamp of the kernel that I am using. Let me look to see what I have. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
On Sat, 30 Dec 2023 at 02:23, Steffen Möller via Emc-developers wrote: > I just went for it and it does not work for the RPi5 - stating that the > device tree would not be found and that the bcm2712-rpi-5-b.dtb cannot be > found. That's odd. I am replying to this email on _my_ Pi5 and it works fine. I can't remember the exact details of how I got here, but it seems to be the LinuxCNC image that Rod built, as it is username cnc and password cnc (and I don't do that). Also the kernel build timestamp is in the AEST timezone. The latency is pretty decent. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Hello, That was quite a thread I have triggered, feels a bit like the Debian mailing lists :) > Von: "andy pugh" > Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a > Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. I just went for it and it does not work for the RPi5 - stating that the device tree would not be found and that the bcm2712-rpi-5-b.dtb cannot be found. The noisy fan was likely a consequence. The system the loops over that message and does not come up. This is the 2.9.1 version. These kind of hardware dependencies I expect to also find for other small boards, so I would not mind to get some confidence to compile the RT preempt kernel on various platforms. I'll see how far I get without cross-compiling. We would then add a section somewhere in our documentation how to compile the RT kernel whenever that is not provided by the hardware vendor. Best, Steffen ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
>When Rod and myself were discussing the building the building of images we >had different ideas as to what was required, I opted for a more complete >desktop where Rod just went for "what was required", although I did >uninstall libreoffice to reduce download size. I also included the "gvfs" >stuff, to make it easier to connect via sftp from the file manager to >different machines. I didn't push the issue as Rod is the more Senior >member, so what Rod went for was great, I just kept doing things my way for >personal use. I don't think I am senior to anybody. I just decided to make installers for the pi and for x86 as I knew enough to achieve that. I thought it would reduce the workload for the release team. At that time there was nothing available for the Pi4. Unlike others, I kept within the limits that would allow me to do PR's to Linuxcnc as that was my goal. I did not know of an easy way to exclude OpenOffice on the Pi. So it's included. But it is excluded from the x86 version (by somebody else before I picked it up) I personally think it's a waste of time to be discussing alternative distributions. Our build process does not currently support such an approach. Where were you all when Andy was working his backside off on his own to get this released? Wouldn't that have been the time to get involved? The release team has spoken. Let's all get behind it. In the absence of a current package in any version of Debian, there are 3 ways to get a packaged version of Linuxcnc. 1. Use the Raspberry Pi Image 2. Use the X86 live installer 3. Use the new scripted install mentioned in the docs. When I get some time, I will rebuild the pi and live installers. I need to be running Debian 12.4 before building it so it packages a current version of Debian so i need to reformat something. The good news is Preempt_RT 6.1.69 was released today and that kernel was released into the Pi kernel on 21 December so finally we can build a solid preempt_rt kernel for the Pi5 which has not been possible previously. I don't even own a Pi5. There is no reason why you can't fork my installer and do something constructive. Rod Webster *1300 896 832* +61 435 765 611 Vehicle Modifications Network www.vehiclemods.net.au On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 at 18:53, Daniel Hiepler wrote: > Vom: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 12:27:41 +1100 > > > > Linuxcnc only really needs one image, it's not really meant to be a > General > > Purpose Distro, > > That's debatable. A lot of projects offer various images for different > purposes (e.g. retropi has images optimized for different Pi revisions). > Some even don't provide images at all but just an installscript that works > with multiple distros (e.g. pi hole). > > If you mean that there's no urgent need since there are more important > issues with linuxcnc currently, I'd strongly agree. > > > > that is the image that has all that is required to get up > > and going. Anything else may cause confusion, as I've noticed some people > > can be a bit adverse to reading information or there can be a language > > issue. > > Although I found some info a bit hard to find/scattered but generally I > would avoid optimizing for documentation size. > Sure it's nice to have a generalized default image to get 95% of use cases > up and running quickly/not optimized, but I don't see "confusion" as a > valid reason to never provide options. > > > > > A developer will be able to get all the bits & pieces they need. > > Sure, i was just tired of doing that process manually so I automated the > setup of the buildchain, git clone and all mumbo jumbo. > > > > In my opinion an image without a UI doesn't make much sense for Linuxcnc. > > I think the opposite is true: A machine controller (firmware) providing a > realtime environment doesn't make much sense to run Xorg + fullblown DE (+ > browser) along with it, > while at the same time caring about latency benchmarks. > The only reason I see is making a compromise for people to get up and > running quickly and not requiring to setup server + client separatly. (I.e. > the "RPi way" to just boot an SD card image and get going). > > But I can tell from personal experience that running milltask + rtapi_app > on a system without UI makes A LOT of sense. > > > > And "normal" & "minimal" are quite subjective. > > They were just examples for different flavours of images. > > > > uninstall libreoffice to reduce download size. I also included the "gvfs" > > Well I know we live in a world were multi-million dollar machines are run > from some default $99.95 OS (*cough*windows*cough*), so I wouldn't be > surprised to find modern CNC controlling firmware offering a Netflix > client... or an office suite. Personally, I wouldn't call such a thing a > sane default. > > > > member, so what Rod went for was great, I just kept doing things my way > for > > personal use. > > Same with my rpi-cookstrap config to build a self-bootstrapping linuxcnc > pi image. > I just thought I'd share it in case others don't
Re: [Emc-developers] RPi5 + Raspbian + LinuxCNC latency tests - first impressions
Vom: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 12:27:41 +1100 > Linuxcnc only really needs one image, it's not really meant to be a General > Purpose Distro, That's debatable. A lot of projects offer various images for different purposes (e.g. retropi has images optimized for different Pi revisions). Some even don't provide images at all but just an installscript that works with multiple distros (e.g. pi hole). If you mean that there's no urgent need since there are more important issues with linuxcnc currently, I'd strongly agree. > that is the image that has all that is required to get up > and going. Anything else may cause confusion, as I've noticed some people > can be a bit adverse to reading information or there can be a language > issue. Although I found some info a bit hard to find/scattered but generally I would avoid optimizing for documentation size. Sure it's nice to have a generalized default image to get 95% of use cases up and running quickly/not optimized, but I don't see "confusion" as a valid reason to never provide options. > A developer will be able to get all the bits & pieces they need. Sure, i was just tired of doing that process manually so I automated the setup of the buildchain, git clone and all mumbo jumbo. > In my opinion an image without a UI doesn't make much sense for Linuxcnc. I think the opposite is true: A machine controller (firmware) providing a realtime environment doesn't make much sense to run Xorg + fullblown DE (+ browser) along with it, while at the same time caring about latency benchmarks. The only reason I see is making a compromise for people to get up and running quickly and not requiring to setup server + client separatly. (I.e. the "RPi way" to just boot an SD card image and get going). But I can tell from personal experience that running milltask + rtapi_app on a system without UI makes A LOT of sense. > And "normal" & "minimal" are quite subjective. They were just examples for different flavours of images. > uninstall libreoffice to reduce download size. I also included the "gvfs" Well I know we live in a world were multi-million dollar machines are run from some default $99.95 OS (*cough*windows*cough*), so I wouldn't be surprised to find modern CNC controlling firmware offering a Netflix client... or an office suite. Personally, I wouldn't call such a thing a sane default. > member, so what Rod went for was great, I just kept doing things my way for > personal use. Same with my rpi-cookstrap config to build a self-bootstrapping linuxcnc pi image. I just thought I'd share it in case others don't feel like cross compiling. (You wouldn't need to run it as it's just a collection of bash scripts that could be run manually or serve as documentation). Regards DH > > On Fri, Dec 29, 2023 at 11:40 AM Daniel Hiepler > wrote: > > > Vom: Thu, 28 Dec 2023 23:02:26 + > > > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 at 14:07, Daniel Hiepler > > > wrote:oot I had no more Wifi and (worse) > > > the ventilator was a max > > > > > > > > I encountered similar problems and decided to build my own kernel. I > > created a "fire & forget" bash script to build an image from the ground up > > and compiles linuxcnc+rt kernel on the pi: > > > > > > Why do people keep reinventing this particular wheel? We distribute a > > > Pi SD card image via www.linuxcnc.org. > > > > I wouldn't call it "reinventing the wheel" since it's quite a different > > approach without cross compiling and better customization options. I use a > > minimal kernel config and you can make it build an image without Xorg and > > linuxcnc --with-x=no. > > > > Also, the image wouldn't boot on the Rpi4 at the time I tried it. > > > > > > > > > If there is something about it that you don't like, then make a change > > > request, rather than dividing the effort. > > > > It would be nice to have builds of multiple Rpi images (normal, minimal, > > developer, without UI etc.) but it would take a lot more effort than it > > took for this. > > > > > > > > Regards > > -- > > Daniel Hiepler > > > > > > ___ > > Emc-developers mailing list > > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers > > > > ___ > Emc-developers mailing list > Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers -- Daniel Hiepler ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
